Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: johndtuttle on September 06, 2014, 12:31:12 AM



Title: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on September 06, 2014, 12:31:12 AM
Well fellas, it's that time again and I couldn't resist getting my hands on Penn's latest offerings, among them the Fathom 15LD 2-speed. Penn kept this new offering well under wraps and just now the first reels are trickling out for our perusal :).

This is a brand new reel and so we will mostly get a look at brand spanking new machinery in little need of service. However I hope to provide some guidance to taking care of your reel over time and also to provide a look at the insides for those who really care about the guts of their reels and just have to know how they tick :).

I think we will find a true game changer in the "value 2-speed" category with all of the key features of the top of the line Torque 2-speeds in a more affordable package.

Meet the Fathom 15 LD 2-speed. Capacity is listed as about 250 yards of 50lb braid or ~200 yards of 20lb mono (~300yds of 15lb) and definitely smaller than a classic 3/0. I believe the best comparison is to a Newell 229 size:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_54_59_17590616.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17591)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_54_58_175881927.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17589)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_54_58_175871850.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17588)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_54_59_17589526.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17590)

Cute lil' guy!  ;D. The wide angle lense used for close ups makes the Fathom 15 LD2 appear larger and wider than it really is. The spool is just 4cm wide or about 2 thumb widths. As well, the matte black finish has been confusing to some. It has an all metal frame and side plates (cast Aluminum alloy). A few teasers in the back ground :).

Where to begin, where to begin?? Well, for basic service to access the spool bearings we can begin with the Left Side Plate Assembly (27) which is removed via 3 Screws (38):

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_7_05_29.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17594)

Revealing the standard Penn plan for the Click Spring (62) held by it's Screw (62C), the Click Tongue (35) held by a small Retainer c-clip (69) that fits on the back of the Click Button (36):

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_19_1756171.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17562)

Not much to do here or talk about other than to spread around some of the excess factory grease you see. I do always pull the ClicK Spring once to be sure grease is underneath it as this is a frequent source of corrosion.

To get to the Spindle Complete (71) to service the spool bearings we have to remove the Spool (29) and to do that we must remove the Preset Knob (144) which is threaded to it's end:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_7_12_02.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17595)

The Lever Drag (21) will also come off by unscrewing the Preset Knob (144) finding the Cam Follower (141) inside. It houses the Preset Knob Click Spring (141A) all of which rests over the Drag Cam (19). Gently lifting off the Lever Drag we should be mindful of the Lever Click Pin (161A) as it and it's Spring Dog (14) simply rest in a receptacle. This is the sort of tiny doo-dad that is easily lost inadvertently :).

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_20_17563372.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17564)

Then pull off the nylon hat that is the Lever Washer (4) and we have a group like this to set aside:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_21_175671454.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17568)

That's our spool in there that we can very carefully now lift out. We want to be certain that the reel is left resting on it's right side so that the nesting parts of the drag plate, Ratchet and Pinion are undisturbed. The reason why is that they "nest" together and really are now only held in place by the ears of the Ambassadeur style Dogs once the spool is removed from the Drag Preset. When the reel is put together there is no undue pressure on ears of the dogs, but now there is if the reel is overturned:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_7_19_56.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17599)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_7_23_12.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17602)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_7_25_32.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17603)

So, leave the reel propped somewhat upright like so while we work on the spool and drag washers:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_7_27_23.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17604)

Well, Fellers, we have now come to the Holy Grail of Value Lever Drag reels and that is the Thrust Bearing Assembly (55T) :D:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_7_29_10.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17605)

Okuma led the way with the Makaira series that made a huge splash finally incorporating a design that did something other than use the Pinion or LS Bearings for virtual drag washers and Penn followed suit in their new Torques. The basic idea is that standard bearings are only designed for loads in one direction, the direction the fish is pulling towards. But when you dial up your preset and drag you ask them to function in a direction they are not designed for to put pressure on the drag plate, the result is felt as increased handle pressure.

While this may seem trivial you are in fact destroying the bearings and it will lead to early service needs or failure and limits how much drag you can preset. Some companies went the "use cheap bearings and replace them frequently" route, others went the "use oversize bearings and have them last a little longer" path....but the real answer was a thrust bearing to eliminate the side loads and Penn is the first to offer it in a "value" lever drag reel.

What this means to you is that your reel will function as new longer and comfortably fish higher drag. This feature is in both the one speed and two speed Fathoms as well as the Squall lever drags.

Shown removed from the Spindle (71, above) is also the left side Ball Bearing (55L) and brass Sleeve Spindle (13B). Proper care of all of the above can be grease for longevity or your choice of speed oil if you want more speed. For max free spool for fishing a live bait it is best to remove the shields from the bearings and slather it all with oil. Without removing the shields and just adding a little fresh oil to it all from the outside got me nearly one minute of free spool if you hate pulling shields. More than enough and so fast as to make it a casting rocket.

On the other side of the spool we have the Drag Washer (117A) retained by the Retaining Ring (110D). Note that this is an "open" drag with no cover like an Avet. This is a small cost saving measure but theoretically exposes the spool to more saltwater if it gets seriously splashed/dunked. Most of the reel nerds I know have found that drag covers are a doubled edged sword. If they are covered, it has to be perfect or any water getting in is never getting out (and it usually eventually gets in). If they are "open" the reel is more able to dry out but you might need to take a look and see what's going on in there more often and religiously rinse your reels. Needless to say a good light greasing of this area is also ideal for protection:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_17_17554539.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17555)

Regardless, the drag is Penn's new "Dura Drag" material and even though they appeared dry at first glance are treated at the factory with "Dura Lube". This can be noticed as the tiny film left on the drag plate.

If you prefer Cal's the washer can be cleaned and re-lubed leaving a *very* thin film but it will be heavier than the factory lube. When you lube your drag washer you are trying to reduce "start up" friction and to also prevent saltwater intrusion which will be trapped in the washer leading to corrosion. Be meticulous in getting the inner and outer edges of the washer so that saltwater cannot enter and delaminate the assembly. Keep it light to not weigh down your spool and reduce free spool.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_19_17562907.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17563)

This image shows some oil being applied to the Spindle (main shaft) but also note the thin coat of grease protecting the spool and the back of the drag washer. This is not an area to overlook when servicing the reel:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_18_175562057.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17557)

I like Cal's :D.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_54_57_175852173.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17586)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_18_17557799.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17558)

Now that the spool is complete we can turn to the Right Side Plate Assembly (1). To get there and look at the heart of this reel we need to access the Screws (38) but one is blocked by the Drag Lever Ratchet (2A):

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_21_17566213.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17567)

This is no trouble. With a small slotted screw driver it's outside Screws (38T) are removed along with the central Screw (32). While we're at it we'll lube the parts of the Drag Ratchet with Corrosion-X. We also need to remove the Cover Plate Screws (46A):

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_21_175682119.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17569)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_19_175591407.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17560)

Giving us this group:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_23_175691243.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17570)

And the Right Side Plate can lift off giving us this beautiful image of pure stainless steel:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_23_175702018.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17571)

Remove the Retaining Ring (69D) to remove the Drag Washer Metal (117W):

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_23_175711320.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17572)

And we have our first look at the drive plate Ball Bearing (55A) housed in the Drive Plate hub (117) with a good look at the Main Gears (5H and 5L), Ratchet (98) with the Dog Assemblies (15) resting on their studs:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_27_175821278.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17583)

The entire group of which is simply resting together and is only retained at the moment by the ears of the Dogs. The assembly is "sandwiched" when the reel is put together and obviously perfectly stable from side to side movement it's just at this point we have removed one half of the sandwich and we don't want to bend our Dog ears.

Note, the Dogs are "synced" in such a way as only one is mating with the Ratchet at a time to reduce handle back play to a minimum:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_25_175761902.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17577)

With the entire pinion assembly lifted out of the rt. side we can see that there is a pinion bearing that we need to service that is partly covered by the main gears just like in it's big brother the Torques:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_17_17553602.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17554)

To get to it for a complete service (pack with fresh grease) we are going to have to remove the Handle Assembly (24) as the Nut Gear Stud (134A) that keeps the Main Gears on seen above is torqued on so as to be essentially non removable outside the factory. We'll need our Penn Spanner that came with the reel.:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_16_175501866.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17551)

Protection for the Retainer Shift Button to unscrew it (110C):

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_16_17551614.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17552)

The Shift Button (172) now lifts straight out letting us remove the Plate Retaining (133) that holds the Holder Catch (173A) that will hold the 2 Catches (173) and 2 Spring Shift Buttons (18C) to form a housing.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_16_07_17_1_44_38_19237539.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19238)

With the Holder Catch removed we see the Base Assembled (110A) retained by the small Retaining Ring (67, really a C-Clip):

(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_16_07_17_1_44_38_19236567.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19237)

Lift off the Handle Screw Locking (110A) and we'll see the Handle Nut (23) which we will remove with the Penn wrench:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_23_175721533.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17573)

After you lift off the Shield Guard (50) there is a beefy Retaining Ring (195):

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_24_17573867.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17574)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_17_175522466.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17553)

And the whole rest of the Assembly drops right out:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_25_175781738.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17579)

The bronze appearing Gear Stud (134) that you see above is heat treated stainless steel per Penn: "Same stud used in Torque LD2, but made in China instead of Philly.  Material is heat treated 17-4 PH Stainless Steel". Note that the bearing you see on my reel had pressed in shields that could be removed if desired and the bearing hand packed with grease. I have one of Alan's bearing packers and used that :).

Now we can get at the pinion Ball Bearing (26N) which also got the bearing packer treatment.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_27_175811050.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17582)

OMG what have we done :D

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_26_175801098.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17581)

Ok, some tips on re-assembly.

Normally, one simply reverses their steps and all goes back together just fine but the "nesting" nature of the Fathom's Pinions, Drive Hub and Ratchet and Dogs are a little different. Reason being is that we have to be careful to get the Dogs on the Ratchet without bending the ears or them coming off. This is complicated by what I call the "Dog Stops" that are molded into the side plate. They are intended to prevent the dogs from ever getting knocked off the Ratchet, but they also prevent you from placing them on their posts, placing the Ratchet in the reel and simply swinging them onto the Ratchet:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_54_58_17586533.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17587)

The Dogs have to be placed on their studs while attached to the Ratchet.

Put the Dogs on the Ratchet like so:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_25_175761902.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17577)

Place the entire group straight down into the pinion bearing and tap the Dogs over their studs. Do the right one first then slide the other along the Ratchet (it will slide counter clockwise) until it will reach it's own stud. Once it will go on tap them both gently down and be sure to maintain the reel in an upright posture or it will all just drop out potentially bending your ears.

The reel will now look like this. Note the Drag Washer Metal (117W) has been left off. If we try and get the Dogs back on their studs with the Washer on it would make it blind to us or a tool and be impossible:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_25_175751826.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17576)

Now put the washer back on, keeping in mind one of them sides is "cupped". The flat side goes against the Dura Drag:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_28_175841612.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17585)

And put the retaining ring back on:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_28_17583299.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17584)

You can see with the drag plate on now that the Dogs are hidden to you and the "stops" prevent them from swinging wide enough for you to manipulate them any further. It's a little delicate to do but is very simple and reliable once assembled:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_24_175741226.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17575)

Ok, now we want to carefully hold the entire assembly in with a thumb on the hub (Drive Plate) while we get the right side attached back to the frame. It now looks like this:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_7_27_23.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17604)

Remember keep it upright like this or it will drop out.

Drop the Spool Assembly straight down:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_16_07_17_1_47_55_192381439.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19239)

And sandwich it together with a finger and thumb while you get the Drag Preset knob back on:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_16_07_17_1_47_55_19239405.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19240)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_16_07_17_1_51_51_192421817.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19243)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_16_07_17_1_48_18_192402058.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19241)

With the knob on the "sandwich" is restored and you can then simply put the left side plate on. The Drag Preset knob can be used to move the Spindle into position so that the cross pin in the end goes into it's receptacle in the Left Side Plate.

The handle is as simple as can be. I won't do a compete tutorial of the reverse steps of the two-speed mechanism, nothing to it other than reversing your previous work. Do not over grease it as the tolerances for the retaining rings are tight and some build up can make it tricky to get the retaining rings on. We do want to well grease the pressed in bushing where the handle exits the side plate:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_26_175792358.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17580)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_18_175581293.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17559)

Plenty of grease on the Shield Guard (50):

(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_16_07_17_1_50_44_19241598.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19242)

Then a spot on the articulating surface of the Knob Handle (25) once the shifting mechanism is back together:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_16_07_17_1_57_44_192431450.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19244)

The handle seems plenty long enough given that it has a low gear of 2:8:1 and a high gear of 6:1. A "Versa" handle with adjustable handle lengths would not be a bad thing, but most of the 2-speed reels in this category have comparable handle lengths that at first seem short. The length is actually a good compromise between "easy to turn fast" in high gear (but not much cranking power) but then you have the low gear :) that is much more powerful than simply a longer handle would be.

If needed, the handle can be removed via the Screw (23L) but bear in mind that having some blue loctite may be needed to keep it tight again (not shown).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, so there was talk above about the advantages of the Thrust Bearing and so elementary testing confirms there is no handle binding (which equals bearing destruction) at any preset I chose that still permitted the Lever Drag to even move. Penn rates the Fathom 15 LD2 at "20lbs" max drag and needless to say this figure is easily met even with a full spool. I easily dialed up the preset at Strike to 18-20lbs on the hand scale and at this number still had 100% free spool and zero handle binding. This meant that pushing to Full let alone "Sunset" was tough and it simply was snapping the basic loop I was tying in 40lb braid so who knows what the ultimate max at lock down is, probably well over 25lbs...more than is necessary for a reel engineered to fish 40-50lb braid with confidence.

The gentle reader will have to forgive me a lack of interest in pursuing over hyped "max drag" numbers and going to the lengths necessary to establish what the "max drag" truly is for the Fathom. I have written at length in other posts how useless I think this top number is in small reels not engineered like true big game reels. The Penn Fathom 15 LD2 will clearly fish 12-15lbs at strike and 20lbs at full to stop a fish short for years with a high margin of safety and have far better bearing longevity than older designs. But, if the fish can pull 20lbs of drag for 400 yards you really need a Penn VSX or other true big game reel to handle the heat and forces over time.

The lightweight frame we want in a reel in this class is not going to sustain that for long. The Fathom's frame is engineered just right for everyday fishing offshore holding a reel in your hands.

And for a 2-speed reel in this size and price range this is probably the toughest out there with a full stainless steel drivetrain, oversize bearings for the handle and pinon and the thrust bearing assembly to protect it all from "axial loads" that destroy other reel's bearings allowing you to confidently push the reel to it's limits, and have it hold up.

Penn has set a new standard at this price.

Ok fellers, that's what I got for now. When you get a reel like this it's a load of fun! :)

And always easier when you have curious helpers!

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_20_175642288.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17565)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_4_53_20_175651345.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17566)


:D :D :D















Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Tightlines667 on September 06, 2014, 01:04:37 AM
Well done!

That is one fine looking reel.

I particularly like the cam assembly (metal on metal, w/friction reducing nylon), the thrust bearing/spindle assembly, and the quality gear set. I am a bit curious how aggressive the cam ramp up is, and whether it is more linear or steep in nature (looks to somewhat linear?).  Are the Bellevilles heavy or light and how are they arranged?  I also like the spool design (w/integrated indicator lines, braid ready (nonslip spindle, and lightweight yet strong).

Not sure how I feel about the open drag (properly sealed chamber seems to be an effective tool at keeping stuff outta this critical area), and I'm not a big fan of the ambassador style dogs (can be finicky), though having 2  opposing and alternating dogs w/more teeth on the ratchet seems to be the way to go.  Too bad they didn't utilize a larger offset handle knob as well.

Overall, this looks like a great little reel!

Nice job on the tutorial!

Keep up the good work!


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Taily on September 06, 2014, 12:11:17 PM
Definately looking forward to the rest of this review! I've been thinking long and hard about "getting modern" with a 25 or 30LD 2spd sized replacement for my ageing (very gracefully mind you  ;) ;D ) 113H's as my day to day reels and have been wondering about these - as to how well they might fit that role.

The 30LD specs state 330yds/30lb mono - yeah I know, I still fish mono  :o but maybe if I was to start trying to "learn" these old tired fingers how to tie really good braid knots then the weight of the larger reels might be avoided too.

I really appreciate you taking the time there John to get a write-up up here for us all to see!

Dave.

 


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: MFB on September 06, 2014, 09:08:20 PM
Hi John,

Good to see that this tutorial was carried out under "lab" conditions ;D

Rgds

Mark


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Three se7ens on September 07, 2014, 02:14:50 AM
Definately looking forward to the rest of this review! I've been thinking long and hard about "getting modern" with a 25 or 30LD 2spd sized replacement for my ageing (very gracefully mind you  ;) ;D ) 113H's as my day to day reels and have been wondering about these - as to how well they might fit that role.

The 30LD specs state 330yds/30lb mono - yeah I know, I still fish mono  :o but maybe if I was to start trying to "learn" these old tired fingers how to tie really good braid knots then the weight of the larger reels might be avoided too.

I really appreciate you taking the time there John to get a write-up up here for us all to see!

Dave.

 


You don't need to know a lot of complicated knots for braid, just know which ones work.  I mainly use a palomar for terminal tackle, and an Albright for braid to mono.  Both are very simple, and hold well with braid.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: sundaytrucka on September 07, 2014, 06:59:31 PM
I am sold on these fathom reels. I do not own a 2-speed reel, but this will be the first.

The hardened steel gear shaft, double-dog, and SS internals sold me. I know the frame is not machined, but that seems to be the main difference and the main reason for price difference compared to the torques. Affordable 2-speed in my eyes, soon to be in my hands.

Not a fan of spending $400-$500 on a reel.

Thanks for the tutorial John!


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: FatTuna on September 07, 2014, 07:04:33 PM
It looks like a really nice reel, especially for the price. Thanks for the tutorial.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: MarkT on September 08, 2014, 02:42:09 AM
Nice!  I like basic black.  They're priced like a non-MC Avet 2-speed but with features above the Raptor.  Looks like a big win.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: josa1 on September 08, 2014, 10:53:21 AM
Thanks John!  Was nice to get a look inside this reel and you did a great job explaining the operation and your pictures were clear as a bell!  :D

josa1


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Keta on September 08, 2014, 01:39:49 PM
I'm patently waiting for the arrival of my FTH25NLD2


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: handi2 on September 08, 2014, 05:33:38 PM
Very nice job John. I have used the Fathom single speeds and use many of the Penn Torque reels. I don't need one but I will order the new 25N 2 speed just to give it a workout. I love 2 speed reels now.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on September 08, 2014, 06:10:47 PM
Thanks for all the kind words guys!  ;D

The curious Pup is 9mo Juke Logan...absolute monster nicknamed Osama bin Labbin' for terrorizing the household with a set of chompers :). He reduces a tennis ball to little bits in about 15 minutes :(.

Very nice job John. I have used the Fathom single speeds and use many of the Penn Torque reels. I don't need one but I will order the new 25N 2 speed just to give it a workout. I love 2 speed reels now.

For the price seems that they can't be beat. Certainly much more accessible to give them a go than a $500+ 2-speed. Modern 2-speeds are remarkable casters too and terrific for deep jigging of heavy lead.

We'll see how it goes. Every reel takes years to design, field test, then go into production. The last step can be a crapshoot and the early adopters are always "beta testers" of initial production. Hopefully there will be no hiccups!  ;D

I'm patently waiting for the arrival of my FTH25NLD2

Post some pictures when it arrives Lee! :)



Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on September 08, 2014, 06:28:43 PM
Definately looking forward to the rest of this review! I've been thinking long and hard about "getting modern" with a 25 or 30LD 2spd sized replacement for my ageing (very gracefully mind you  ;) ;D ) 113H's as my day to day reels and have been wondering about these - as to how well they might fit that role.

The 30LD specs state 330yds/30lb mono - yeah I know, I still fish mono  :o but maybe if I was to start trying to "learn" these old tired fingers how to tie really good braid knots then the weight of the larger reels might be avoided too.

I really appreciate you taking the time there John to get a write-up up here for us all to see!

Dave.

 

In one of the photos in the background is a Fathom 30LD so I have now handled a 15, 25N, 30, 40N and 40 in all the various models. The 30 and 25N are close, but I am always going to be a fan of the more narrow reel, especially in a 2-speed. Reason being is that the shifting mechanism effectively "widens" the reel making for a little more "wobble" when cranking the reel. This has a major effect on cranking power and energy spent stabilizing the reel. You can only crank as hard as you can stabilize with the other hand.

There is no doubt I need my readers for tying braid but as above, there are some very simple knots that are totally effective. Mono topshots are still very useful for casting lures (or people use very heavy braid) but braid backing at the least lets you go as small as possible and to fish heavier line which really makes a fatigue difference over the day and lets you pull harder.

 ;)



Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: jonnou on September 09, 2014, 01:40:40 AM
Great Tutorial John

Quote
The gentle reader will have to forgive me a lack of interest in pursuing over hyped "max drag" numbers and going to the lengths necessary to establish what the "max drag" truly is for the Fathom. I have written at length in other posts how useless I think this top number is in small reels not engineered like true big game reels. The Penn Fathom 15 LD2 will clearly fish 12-15lbs at strike and 20lbs at full to stop a fish short for years with a high margin of safety and have far better bearing longevity than older designs. But, if the fish can pull 20lbs of drag for 400 yards you really need a Penn VSX or other true big game reel to handle the heat and forces over time.


In New Zealand you need that stopping power if you are into a 30kg Kingfish that is aiming to rub you off on the reef :) :)
You wont get a 500yard run though they would of bustted you off by then
Nice explanation I learnt alot
I recently replaced a bearing on my Okuma 50w and couldnt get the pinoin gear and shaft back in
Frustrated I had one last look and found half of the inner race of the old bearing still on the shaft
my guess thrust loads?

Thanks Jon


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on September 09, 2014, 03:06:21 AM
Great Tutorial John

In New Zealand you need that stopping power if you are into a 30kg Kingfish that is aiming to rub you off on the reef :) :)
You wont get a 500yard run though they would of bustted you off by then
Nice explanation I learnt alot
I recently replaced a bearing on my Okuma 50w and couldnt get the pinoin gear and shaft back in
Frustrated I had one last look and found half of the inner race of the old bearing still on the shaft
my guess thrust loads?

Thanks Jon


Thanks for that Jon. I re-posted a long thought I have on the topic that summarizes my thinking that I had written a few months back:

http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=11597.0

Absolutely true these small reels need a lot of drag to stop short Kingies (Yellowtail) and other reef dwellers. I guess I feel that the tuna guys have kinda mis-interpreted these numbers though, as 25lbs of drag for 10 yards to stop a big snapper or jack is not the same as 25lbs for 400, 600, 800 yards to try and stop a big tuna.

The Fathom can make a big number to stop 'em short, but it cannot be used on very long runs, it just doesn't have the frame like a Penn 50VSW or other big game reel has to handle the heat and stress.

That's why I am reluctant to bother finding it's true "max". I think mostly because I know the reel would be amazing for most anything for it's size...but one reel's 25lbs of drag is not the same as another's due to how they are built.



Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: alantani on September 09, 2014, 03:46:14 AM
crud.....  photobucket is messing with you!!!!!


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on September 09, 2014, 03:53:11 AM
crud.....  photobucket is messing with you!!!!!

Really? I see all the images fine? Are they visible to you guys?


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: MarkT on September 09, 2014, 04:28:01 AM
The photos are there but there are some photobucket ads every so often.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on September 09, 2014, 04:30:00 AM
It's a shakedown!  ;D

I'll get it fixed once I figure out how lol.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Taily on September 09, 2014, 05:55:41 AM
Definately looking forward to the rest of this review! I've been thinking long and hard about "getting modern" with a 25 or 30LD 2spd sized replacement for my ageing (very gracefully mind you  ;) ;D ) 113H's as my day to day reels and have been wondering about these - as to how well they might fit that role.

The 30LD specs state 330yds/30lb mono - yeah I know, I still fish mono  :o but maybe if I was to start trying to "learn" these old tired fingers how to tie really good braid knots then the weight of the larger reels might be avoided too.

I really appreciate you taking the time there John to get a write-up up here for us all to see!

Dave.

 


You don't need to know a lot of complicated knots for braid, just know which ones work.  I mainly use a palomar for terminal tackle, and an Albright for braid to mono.  Both are very simple, and hold well with braid.

Hi there, more to do with early onset of arthritis in a couple of my fingers (I suffered a couple of fairly serious hand injuries early on and now in my late 40's I'm paying for it) so I'm happy to keep bottom bashing with mono for the time being, though I do use braid for other things. Appreciate your words though.

Dave.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: jonnou on September 09, 2014, 07:19:51 AM
Sorry about the artritis Dave but once the connection is made you are still fishing mono with your topshot you just need some help with the braid to mono connection. Hard to lose your independance but will happen to us all one day
Best Jon


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: alantani on September 09, 2014, 07:21:25 AM
It's a shakedown!  ;D

I'll get it fixed once I figure out how lol.

you should have access to the server here to store your photos.  there is functionally no limit. 


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on September 09, 2014, 05:00:15 PM
It's a shakedown!  ;D

I'll get it fixed once I figure out how lol.

you should have access to the server here to store your photos.  there is functionally no limit. 

I forked over the cash for a quick fix.

The trouble has been photobucket has been easy to upload all of the shots to, then picking and choosing and editing them etc.

Some sites (ie Stripersonline) automatically upload your photos when you post. Convenient for this issue, but Alanhawk won't post there any longer because it gives ownership of the images to the site owner (at least on his site). I can see how Alan would have a problem with that and his truly professional grade images.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Keith K on September 10, 2014, 01:39:00 AM
Fantastic tutorial on what appears to be a very nice reel.  Thanks, John

Keith


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: NickM on November 16, 2014, 03:25:47 AM
Questions:

Does the fathom ld2's have the same arb as the star drag where you would have to replace the side plate? I don't see the arb seperate in the schematic?

Maybe I shoulda asked before bought the 25nld2 lol


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Tiddlerbasher on November 16, 2014, 11:53:47 AM
John I maybe missunderstanding here, so please bear with me.
There is only one thrust bearing - between the bellevilles and the left spool bearing - correct?
While that will alleviate axial thrust on the spool bearing surely the axial load is then transferred to the rh sideplate bearing ???
Usually when an axial load (as found in ld reels) is present thrust bearings would typically be used in pairs.

Have Penn got around this by using a larger rh sideplate bearing?

I know from building a brake unit for my line spooler that radial bearings (particularly cheap ones) fail very quickly under axial stress.
That's why I used thrust bearings on that project.
Trying to think out loud here ;)


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on November 19, 2014, 05:05:45 PM
John I maybe missunderstanding here, so please bear with me.
There is only one thrust bearing - between the bellevilles and the left spool bearing - correct?
While that will alleviate axial thrust on the spool bearing surely the axial load is then transferred to the rh sideplate bearing ???
Usually when an axial load (as found in ld reels) is present thrust bearings would typically be used in pairs.

Have Penn got around this by using a larger rh sideplate bearing?

I know from building a brake unit for my line spooler that radial bearings (particularly cheap ones) fail very quickly under axial stress.
That's why I used thrust bearings on that project.
Trying to think out loud here ;)


There are 2 types of lever drag mechanisms ones that "pull" from the left and those that "push" from the right. Respectively, they greatly increases the axial load on the bearing on the side initiating the force. With Penn's design (pull) the force is far greater on the left and the thrust bearing completely alleviates it. The proof of the pudding is felt "handle load" as you increase drag preset. There is none on the Penn design until the preset is so high the reel is un-fishable as the lever cannot be moved :). The right side bearings are oversize too as compared to competitors.

As you move from left to right the axial load is shared by many components etc so in the "pull" designs the loads are far more modest on the right and vice versa.

Essentially, handle load = axial load on a bearing. No handle load, no problem.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Tiddlerbasher on November 20, 2014, 10:53:56 AM
Thanks for that John. I think I've just found another project to play with ;)


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on January 12, 2015, 06:59:11 PM
Questions:

Does the fathom ld2's have the same arb as the star drag where you would have to replace the side plate? I don't see the arb seperate in the schematic?

Maybe I shoulda asked before bought the 25nld2 lol

I apologize that I somehow missed this question earlier. There is no ARB in a Fathom LD2 it only uses the synced Abu style dogs.

FWIW the Fathom one should be able to be replaced without replacing the whole side plate if you put together a socket press system.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: lonehawkstation on August 15, 2015, 10:04:39 AM
Thank you SO much for this.  I know it's a lot of work to do a tutorial.

Question on the bearings.  Is the left side Ball Bearing (55L) the only one that should have the shields pulled, cleared, and lubed with oil?  For the other bearings you packed with grease, if I don't have Alan's grease packer yet, what would you recommend?  Pull the shield on 1 side and pack with my thumb?  If so, which way should I reinstall the bearings when done?

Much appreciated.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on August 15, 2015, 03:50:24 PM
Thank you SO much for this.  I know it's a lot of work to do a tutorial.

Question on the bearings.  Is the left side Ball Bearing (55L) the only one that should have the shields pulled, cleared, and lubed with oil?  For the other bearings you packed with grease, if I don't have Alan's grease packer yet, what would you recommend?  Pull the shield on 1 side and pack with my thumb?  If so, which way should I reinstall the bearings when done?

Much appreciated.

If you are looking for max speed and freespool then the left and right spool bearings should have their shields pulled and then lubed with your choice of speed oil. The right side pinion bearing is ideally treated with removing both shields (they really do nothing to protect from corrosion long term, though you could argue in general (non-fishing) applications they reduce dirt). Then thumb pack the bearing from both sides with grease and replace.

The bearing packer is just a convenience thing and saves you the hassle of removing shields (and the small risk of bearing damage when you do so). It is not used to save the shields in any sense :).


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: lonehawkstation on August 16, 2015, 09:09:32 PM

If you are looking for max speed and freespool then the left and right spool bearings should have their shields pulled and then lubed with your choice of speed oil. The right side pinion bearing is ideally treated with removing both shields (they really do nothing to protect from corrosion long term, though you could argue in general (non-fishing) applications they reduce dirt). Then thumb pack the bearing from both sides with grease and replace.

The bearing packer is just a convenience thing and saves you the hassle of removing shields (and the small risk of bearing damage when you do so). It is not used to save the shields in any sense :).

Perfect, thanks.  Is there any bearing I shouldn't pull the shields and packed with grease?  I heard having at least 1 side might help keep the grease in place?


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on August 16, 2015, 11:19:40 PM

If you are looking for max speed and freespool then the left and right spool bearings should have their shields pulled and then lubed with your choice of speed oil. The right side pinion bearing is ideally treated with removing both shields (they really do nothing to protect from corrosion long term, though you could argue in general (non-fishing) applications they reduce dirt). Then thumb pack the bearing from both sides with grease and replace.

The bearing packer is just a convenience thing and saves you the hassle of removing shields (and the small risk of bearing damage when you do so). It is not used to save the shields in any sense :).

Perfect, thanks.  Is there any bearing I shouldn't pull the shields and packed with grease?  I heard having at least 1 side might help keep the grease in place?

TBH it's hard to say. You can pretty much do anything as long as you are taking regular looks, but a shield might hide soggy grease that you would replace sooner etc. If they are both off there are never any secrets.

Sealed bearings (rubber) I leave on the one to the outside of say, the handle bearing in a spinning reel because it will prevent some water intrusion....basically everyone comes up with w/e they are comfortable with in balance with their vigilance...we have no data to really tell us more than that.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: word-doctor on October 31, 2015, 12:22:27 AM
John, you provided good stuff about the 25nstar on another board. Looking at prices, I'm thinking that a 25n in ld2spd would be a beefier, safer option for Gulf YFT. But how does it cast in comparison to the star? The guys who get on fish are the ones who can really wing it.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on October 31, 2015, 01:21:16 AM

If you are looking for max speed and freespool then the left and right spool bearings should have their shields pulled and then lubed with your choice of speed oil. The right side pinion bearing is ideally treated with removing both shields (they really do nothing to protect from corrosion long term, though you could argue in general (non-fishing) applications they reduce dirt). Then thumb pack the bearing from both sides with grease and replace.

The bearing packer is just a convenience thing and saves you the hassle of removing shields (and the small risk of bearing damage when you do so). It is not used to save the shields in any sense :).

Perfect, thanks.  Is there any bearing I shouldn't pull the shields and packed with grease?  I heard having at least 1 side might help keep the grease in place?



To expand on this further.... Some do leave one shield to help theoretically reduce "wash out" of the grease (ideally this would be done on the inner side of a bearing that sits in a "receptacle" of some kind but I can't say I have seen a greased bearing spreading goo far from itself in any case or any real washout.

Generally speaking, we oil spool bearings for max free spinning of the spool because on the west coast we have to cast very light live baits (Sardines or even Anchovies) and any bit of speed is needed. If the reel was doing dedicated iron casting you could easily grease the spool bearings for a poor man's cast control if the iron was of the heavier variety.

Grease will always be max protection and durability between services. Oil for speed but needs to be re-done often. You simply have to adjust to what you, yourself require.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on October 31, 2015, 01:25:28 AM
John, you provided good stuff about the 25nstar on another board. Looking at prices, I'm thinking that a 25n in ld2spd would be a beefier, safer option for Gulf YFT. But how does it cast in comparison to the star? The guys who get on fish are the ones who can really wing it.

Well, that is the rub: casting.

A lever-drag reel will never be the caster that a star drag reel is and they can be difficult to control once they get moving.

The spool has all of the drag mounted on it (heavy) and this means you need heavier lures to get it moving, and it wants to keep moving once you get it going (backlashes easy). If you can learn to cast it you can handle very large fish on it.

Some are very fond of the 40NLD2 for casting wahoo bombs (iron), but lighter poppers might be very challenging.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: word-doctor on October 31, 2015, 03:11:36 AM
Gotcha--thanks much.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: lonehawkstation on December 24, 2015, 05:22:15 AM
Hey bud,

Did you happen to get the dimensions of the bearings?  I want to have a couple of spares before I pull the shields.

Much appreciated.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Rivverrat on February 09, 2016, 08:12:10 PM
Sorry if this has been brought up prior. But am I seeing correctly that the Fathom 2 speeds have no spring / belleville washers ?
If so how is proper spool alignment, slop kept ?


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on February 09, 2016, 08:51:01 PM
Sorry if this has been brought up prior. But am I seeing correctly that the Fathom 2 speeds have no spring / belleville washers ?
If so how is proper spool alignment, slop kept ?

The spring on the right side keeps proper tension and centers the spool.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Rivverrat on February 09, 2016, 11:42:11 PM
Thanks John I completely missed it.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: bigggfish on March 21, 2016, 04:13:35 AM
John, Thanks for the pictorial tutorial.  Came in very handy when I got a new 40NLD2 off EBAy for a great price but it came with a bent handle.  It was weird because nothing else was damaged.  My only conclusion was it came from the factory that way.  The seller jacked me around for a while so for $25 I decided to replace it myself and your tutorial was excellent.  Only comment is that it took me a while what your were referring to when you talked about the retaining ring (part 67).  Once I figured it out, it was obvious, but its would be better referred to as a c-clip.  Any, thanks again for the time posting!!!!

Jim


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on March 21, 2016, 05:14:00 AM
John, Thanks for the pictorial tutorial.  Came in very handy when I got a new 40NLD2 off EBAy for a great price but it came with a bent handle.  It was weird because nothing else was damaged.  My only conclusion was it came from the factory that way.  The seller jacked me around for a while so for $25 I decided to replace it myself and your tutorial was excellent.  Only comment is that it took me a while what your were referring to when you talked about the retaining ring (part 67).  Once I figured it out, it was obvious, but its would be better referred to as a c-clip.  Any, thanks again for the time posting!!!!

Jim

Thanks for that and glad to help. The Retaining Ring (67) is named that on the schematic so I use Penn's choice for clarity. I put a little note in the tutorial to clarify it for others. :)


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Vince on March 30, 2016, 03:55:28 AM
Thanks for the really informative tutorial- thinking of getting some beginner tools and practicing on some other reels before I tackle this 25NLD2. I just got mine in the mail today actually, and noticed that out of the box, it seems to only get about 5 seconds of freespool. Does that seem typical, or perhaps it needs some serious servicing before use?


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on March 30, 2016, 05:55:03 AM
Thanks for the really informative tutorial- thinking of getting some beginner tools and practicing on some other reels before I tackle this 25NLD2. I just got mine in the mail today actually, and noticed that out of the box, it seems to only get about 5 seconds of freespool. Does that seem typical, or perhaps it needs some serious servicing before use?

The factory reels sometimes have too much grease on the spool shaft and spool sleeve. It's great protection but they need some light oil in there plus some for the spool bearings.

Its not serious by any means but the design is a little "nest like" when it comes to closing the reel.

To open it and get to the spool you have to take off the LD preset lever (nothing scary in there). Then take off the Left Side plate and push on the spool shaft inside the LD preset bay where the cam sits. Leave the reel carefully on it's right side and lift the spool straight up and out leaving the reel on it's right side. Then you can get some oil on the bits of the spool after removing the black clicker gear.

Keep it safely propped on its right side while you oil the bearings and spool shaft.

With the reel on it's right side place the spool back straight back in and hold it in firmly while you get the LD preset lever re-attached. Once its in you have to line up the cross pin with the Left Side Plate before that will seat properly.

Nothing hard at all, and quite easy if you are familiar with the method. This method is important to not bend the ears on the dogs that function as the anti-reverse.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Vince on March 30, 2016, 07:20:30 AM

The factory reels sometimes have too much grease on the spool shaft and spool sleeve. It's great protection but they need some light oil in there plus some for the spool bearings.

Thanks for the reply John- can I add speed oil directly to the greased shaft and bearings or do I need to clean the grease off then oil?

I notice the 3x repeated measure to rest the reel on the right side down- I imagine a rain of parts comes out if put left side down? :)


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on March 30, 2016, 02:44:39 PM

The factory reels sometimes have too much grease on the spool shaft and spool sleeve. It's great protection but they need some light oil in there plus some for the spool bearings.

Thanks for the reply John- can I add speed oil directly to the greased shaft and bearings or do I need to clean the grease off then oil?

I notice the 3x repeated measure to rest the reel on the right side down- I imagine a rain of parts comes out if put left side down? :)

What happens is that your ratchet gear ends up hanging by the "ears" of the dogs and potentially bending them--ruining your anti-reverse. Or, not knowing any better you tug on it to remove it bending the ears.

The bearings are your standard shielded and ungreased from the factory. Ideally you would remove the shields, clean and oil them but simple oil from the outside will still improve things. A simple wipe down of the spool shaft then oil is all that is needed there.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Vince on March 30, 2016, 04:44:44 PM
Awesome. Do you recommend any particular speed oil? And would you reinstall the spool bearings open, or would you put the shields back on?


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on March 30, 2016, 05:03:00 PM
Awesome. Do you recommend any particular speed oil? And would you reinstall the spool bearings open, or would you put the shields back on?

TSI 321 is the standard by which others are judged for pure speed. But plain old corrosion-x is perfectly fine. Uber long free spool is less critical than just easy to start turning (low "start up" inertia) and all of the various oils are fine in this regard for my fishing. Getting a frisky bait with a motor and letting him swim is more important, imo, than a few extra feet casting.

I always re-install them open unless the friend whose reel I am working on prefers them stock. Honestly, shields other than rubber ones are useless and the rubber ones are a special case. The rubber can have their shields popped super fast and easily then they can be packed with grease and be amazingly well protected (but not good for spool bearings as they are slower). Perfect for handle and pinion bearings though.

Open they are much easier to clean or add a drop of oil to as needed to keep them nice and fast. That will protect them better than any shield will on a dry bearing.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Vince on March 30, 2016, 09:21:13 PM
Thanks a ton for the info! Super helpful as always.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: steelfish on April 09, 2016, 07:40:27 PM
guys Im sold on the FT LD2 since many months ago, just didnt have the funds for one.

well this week I sold my fathom 40 SD for gettin a LD2, but now the real question would be, which size.


I really cant have 3 sizes for each model of reel I like so I try to mix-match with different brands.
I really like the 25NLD2 but I would like bit more of line capacity in Baja you never know what you could get below, so I have the 30LD2 as the main selection, but that same idea brough me the 40NLD2, a lot more line capacity and bit stronger.

if I go with the 40NLD2 this could be used for trolling, casting heavy irons, bait and yoyo = samethings that Im doing with the Baja
if I go with the 30LD2 this will be used for casting irons, spoons and buttlefly jigs and keep using the baja for the other activities.

there some deep reff that could get you some big Baquetas (pink groupers) and big yellowtails and tresher sharks if you are lucky, for those fishes I would like to be equiped with the 40LD2.. with this reel I see my Baja and medium tanked 113h with less activity everytime.

danggg.. desition..


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on April 09, 2016, 08:50:59 PM
guys Im sold on the FT LD2 since many months ago, just didnt have the funds for one.

well this week I sold my fathom 40 SD for gettin a LD2, but now the real question would be, which size.


I really cant have 3 sizes for each model of reel I like so I try to mix-match with different brands.
I really like the 25NLD2 but I would like bit more of line capacity in Baja you never know what you could get below, so I have the 30LD2 as the main selection, but that same idea brough me the 40NLD2, a lot more line capacity and bit stronger.

if I go with the 40NLD2 this could be used for trolling, casting heavy irons, bait and yoyo = samethings that Im doing with the Baja
if I go with the 30LD2 this will be used for casting irons, spoons and buttlefly jigs and keep using the baja for the other activities.

there some deep reff that could get you some big Baquetas (pink groupers) and big yellowtails and tresher sharks if you are lucky, for those fishes I would like to be equiped with the 40LD2.. with this reel I see my Baja and medium tanked 113h with less activity everytime.

danggg.. desition..


I spent a lot of years dragging around reels that were too big "just in case" with miles of braid that never saw the water. I don't do it anymore.  ;)

A 25N holds ~400 yards of 65# Braid. A fish that can spool that at 20# of drag is not likely to be landed with a 30, or even a 40....

In my opinion, the better handling in the hand of the narrow frame, the lighter weight, easier casting of a live bait etc etc etc more than pay off in the classic 25N size.

I have never been spooled in 45 years of fishing other than trolling in blue water by UFO's (unidentified fish objects) on reels that were clearly too small holding only 300 yards of 40# mono and making 12#'s of drag...

I think in the northern Sea of Cortez it is very unlikely that you will see anything capable of spooling 400 yards of 65# braid for many decades. East Cape, yes, you need big reels. Get the 25N and spend the next years saving for old Senator 6/0's for trolling that you can tank up on a budget. It will cost you as much as the reel or more to spool them with braid. ;)


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: steelfish on April 09, 2016, 11:13:51 PM
Thats wey I asked, New reels That offer 300 yds of 65# are enough for this waters, but without the reel in my hand is Hard to go, I dont like too small reels, fighting sealions its part of fishing here and they always take tons of line every fight, here its easier to get spooled from a sea lion than with a fish.
Hence the need for extra line capacity from the 25n That and the "mees" to use heavy braid 80# for everyday fishing cuz te bottom is super rocky.

Anyway, Thanks for your imput


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on April 10, 2016, 02:29:28 AM
Thats wey I asked, New reels That offer 300 yds of 65# are enough for this waters, but without the reel in my hand is Hard to go, I dont like too small reels, fighting sealions its part of fishing here and they always take tons of line every fight, here its easier to get spooled from a sea lion than with a fish.
Hence the need for extra line capacity from the 25n That and the "mees" to use heavy braid 80# for everyday fishing cuz te bottom is super rocky.

Anyway, Thanks for your imput

If you are going to fish 80# then the 40N is a good choice.


best


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: steelfish on April 25, 2016, 08:01:49 PM
just got my FTH 40LD2

I will open it and the next days and give it a complete pre-fishing service, thanks John for the tutorial.


John, let me ask you, since Im pretty new to LD reels, the only one I have previously used was an Avet LX


on the avets when you move the lever that moves on the Drag setttings you can feel a bump when you are on bait and go to strike and go to Full, but on those reels you dont have middle marks or clicks, just 3 steps, bait, then strike and full, but on the Fathom I can see some small numbers 1,2,3, then Strike then full and sunset when you push the stoper buttom.
I dont know if 1,2,3 marks are important for something, cutbait, livebait, etc, and also I cannot feel any bump or mark to know if I set the lever on the strike mark or bit less or Im bit more infront the real mark, pretty sure when Im on full drag cuz the stopper, same with sunset.

how important could be to be exactly on the Strike mark?
If I set lever on strike or bit lower and a fish is taking line, can I move 1 or 2 click more to the front to have more drag (just like with star drag reels) instead in going to FULL in one jump ?


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on April 25, 2016, 08:34:51 PM
just got my FTH 40LD2

I will open it and the next days and give it a complete pre-fishing service, thanks John for the tutorial.


John, let me ask you, since Im pretty new to LD reels, the only one I have previously used was an Avet LX


on the avets when you move the lever that moves on the Drag setttings you can feel a bump when you are on bait and go to strike and go to Full, but on those reels you dont have middle marks or clicks, just 3 steps, bait, then strike and full, but on the Fathom I can see some small numbers 1,2,3, then Strike then full and sunset when you push the stoper buttom.
I dont know if 1,2,3 marks are important for something, cutbait, livebait, etc, and also I cannot feel any bump or mark to know if I set the lever on the strike mark or bit less or Im bit more infront the real mark, pretty sure when Im on full drag cuz the stopper, same with sunset.

how important could be to be exactly on the Strike mark?
If I set lever on strike or bit lower and a fish is taking line, can I move 1 or 2 click more to the front to have more drag (just like with star drag reels) instead in going to FULL in one jump ?


So, the "Strike" bump is a small one in the middle, where the lever just wants to stop naturally midway. It should be very easy to push past. Full is where there is a hard stop with the button needed to be pushed to get past to Sunset.

If you preset Strike to about 10lbs (for an example) then Sunset will be about 15-16lbs. That is how the cam under the lever is designed. So, if you divide the space between Strike and Sunset into fifths yourself, you get an extra pound of drag every increment. This is one of the nice things about this design as you can move around just past Strike or back again very easily, with no button to depress. Just plus or minus a few pounds of drag either way and easy to do during the fight as needed.

The numbers are just there for another visual reference.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: steelfish on April 25, 2016, 10:52:13 PM
got it, thanks mi amigo John



Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: steelfish on June 03, 2016, 12:44:38 AM
Thanks for the really informative tutorial- thinking of getting some beginner tools and practicing on some other reels before I tackle this 25NLD2. I just got mine in the mail today actually, and noticed that out of the box, it seems to only get about 5 seconds of freespool. Does that seem typical, or perhaps it needs some serious servicing before use?

The factory reels sometimes have too much grease on the spool shaft and spool sleeve. It's great protection but they need some light oil in there plus some for the spool bearings.

Its not serious by any means but the design is a little "nest like" when it comes to closing the reel.

To open it and get to the spool you have to take off the LD preset lever (nothing scary in there). Then take off the Left Side plate and push on the spool shaft inside the LD preset bay where the cam sits. Leave the reel carefully on it's right side and lift the spool straight up and out leaving the reel on it's right side. Then you can get some oil on the bits of the spool after removing the black clicker gear.

Keep it safely propped on its right side while you oil the bearings and spool shaft.

With the reel on it's right side place the spool back straight back in and hold it in firmly while you get the LD preset lever re-attached. Once its in you have to line up the cross pin with the Left Side Plate before that will seat properly.

Nothing hard at all, and quite easy if you are familiar with the method. This method is important to not bend the ears on the dogs that function as the anti-reverse.

John, I was about to pre-service my fathom 40LD2 since havent touch the water so far, but since everyone say it comes really greased all around I will just degrease the spool shaft and bearings and put some tsi321
my question is, when you did the previous procedure, did you cleaned the bearings with carb cleaner or something similar or just wiped off the grease and applied the oild on bearings and called it done?


my current freespool time with spool full of line is 33sec, when the average I have read so far is 50-60 seconds, my Baja does 1:15 min regulary (i know, not the same animal on any way, but looks cool seeing the big spool of the baja spins foreva)




Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on June 03, 2016, 01:10:01 AM
Thanks for the really informative tutorial- thinking of getting some beginner tools and practicing on some other reels before I tackle this 25NLD2. I just got mine in the mail today actually, and noticed that out of the box, it seems to only get about 5 seconds of freespool. Does that seem typical, or perhaps it needs some serious servicing before use?

The factory reels sometimes have too much grease on the spool shaft and spool sleeve. It's great protection but they need some light oil in there plus some for the spool bearings.

Its not serious by any means but the design is a little "nest like" when it comes to closing the reel.

To open it and get to the spool you have to take off the LD preset lever (nothing scary in there). Then take off the Left Side plate and push on the spool shaft inside the LD preset bay where the cam sits. Leave the reel carefully on it's right side and lift the spool straight up and out leaving the reel on it's right side. Then you can get some oil on the bits of the spool after removing the black clicker gear.

Keep it safely propped on its right side while you oil the bearings and spool shaft.

With the reel on it's right side place the spool back straight back in and hold it in firmly while you get the LD preset lever re-attached. Once its in you have to line up the cross pin with the Left Side Plate before that will seat properly.

Nothing hard at all, and quite easy if you are familiar with the method. This method is important to not bend the ears on the dogs that function as the anti-reverse.

John, I was about to pre-service my fathom 40LD2 since havent touch the water so far, but since everyone say it comes really greased all around I will just degrease the spool shaft and bearings and put some tsi321
my question is, when you did the previous procedure, did you cleaned the bearings with carb cleaner or something similar or just wiped off the grease and applied the oild on bearings and called it done?


my current freespool time with spool full of line is 33sec, when the average I have read so far is 50-60 seconds, my Baja does 1:15 min regulary (i know, not the same animal on any way, but looks cool seeing the big spool of the baja spins foreva)


Being an LD reel I didn't stress the free spool too much. In a perfect world you would remove the shields and then soak the bearings in solvent (ie nail polish remover/acetone or other you like) to remove any dirt or previous lube.

TBH they are probably not heavily lubed from the factory as the free spool was very good just after removing excess grease from the spool shaft and sleeve and then oiling the bearings and shaft. But removing the bearing shields too will be ideal going forward for future service.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: steelfish on June 03, 2016, 03:20:32 AM
Thanks John, not feeling like taking the shields out from the bearings on this reel.. Just clean them and add some tsi321 and call it done, I dont pretend to cast with it


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on June 03, 2016, 09:04:19 PM
Thanks John, not feeling like taking the shields out from the bearings on this reel.. Just clean them and add some tsi321 and call it done, I dont pretend to cast with it

yep, that is all that is strictly required.

If you use it only as a troller you can grease the bearings. Oil makes it a little nicer as a deep drop reel but grease is ok too.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: steelfish on June 30, 2016, 05:28:55 PM
well finally have time to do this pending bearing cleaning on my FTH 40LD2

I took out the spool bearing, spool shaft and sleeve, clean everything then put a light coat of tsi321 oil on the sleeve and shaft (one or two drops and spreaded it with my fingers), cleaned deeply the bearings with carb cleaner and the RPM bearing blaster "thingy" and few drops of tsi321 on each BB to finish the job.

the spool went to not so bad 43 seconds of spinning to a 1:06 minutes spinning now. 54% of increase of freespool is not that bad, right?

thanks John for the steps on how do it on a easy way, reel looked so nice inside with plenty of grease all over that I dont feel like doing a pre-fishing service on this one is really that necessary.



Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: fishmeluck on July 07, 2016, 09:23:55 PM
J&H Tackle, Oakdale, NY, currently has the Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed reels on sale. I just ordered a FTH40NLD2 yesterday for $198 and free shipping.
http://www.jandh.com/penn-fathom-2-speed-lever-drag-reels.html (http://www.jandh.com/penn-fathom-2-speed-lever-drag-reels.html)


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Aiala on July 07, 2016, 09:38:21 PM
I just ordered a FTH40NLD2 yesterday for $198 and free shipping.

Wow, that is a spectacular deal! I bought one for about twenty bucks more last month and thought I made out like a bandit.  ::)

At any rate, good score! I'm sure you will be extremely pleased. It's one heckuva great reel!  ;)

~A~



Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Mjg378 on July 08, 2016, 02:31:28 AM
Thank you for posting the sale.    Picked one up


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Kit on July 13, 2016, 11:03:14 PM
Hi guys, I bought a FTH30LD2, I got it spooled and took it home - it was then I found out that the reel didn't have free spool - even with the lever taken off!

I don't quite know what to do, I took the reel apart and put it back together, and loosened the spool a bit, but still no freespool. Please advise.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on July 14, 2016, 12:57:21 AM
Hi guys, I bought a FTH30LD2, I got it spooled and took it home - it was then I found out that the reel didn't have free spool - even with the lever taken off!

I don't quite know what to do, I took the reel apart and put it back together, and loosened the spool a bit, but still no freespool. Please advise.

Probably over greased from the factory. This is common. Follow the tutorial and clean the grease out of the spool assembly and replace with a fast oil and you will be fine. Sometimes the drag is over greased too and that will kill free spool.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Kit on July 14, 2016, 02:36:44 AM
Hi John, Thanks, will do that and report my progress. thanks! :)


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: steelfish on July 14, 2016, 05:59:51 PM
Hi guys, I bought a FTH30LD2, I got it spooled and took it home - it was then I found out that the reel didn't have free spool - even with the lever taken off!

make sure the lever is on OFF position, when you take out the lever on a lever drag reel the spring that is sandwiched on the fiber drag sheet and the metal drag plate its desactivate (the spring) and that cause to have no freespool, in order to have the factory freepool back you need to assemble the lever correctly and put it on the OFF position (you will feel a small bump and click) in that zone the spring separate the drag plate and drag sheet and then you have your freespool (not with technical language but more or less thats how it works)

you might have a problem with the spring or whit the Drag Cam wrongly installed.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: mley1 on August 06, 2016, 09:22:33 PM
J&H Tackle, Oakdale, NY, currently has the Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed reels on sale. I just ordered a FTH40NLD2 yesterday for $198 and free shipping.
http://www.jandh.com/penn-fathom-2-speed-lever-drag-reels.html (http://www.jandh.com/penn-fathom-2-speed-lever-drag-reels.html)


I picked up one of there FTH30LD2's. Got it in a couple days ago. Free spool was about 5 seconds worth. So I'll be cleaning the spool bearings and shaft. Then a few drops of oil. I'm looking forward to seeing how much her free spool improves.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: mley1 on August 07, 2016, 05:05:28 AM
I decided this evening to try and clean and lube my spool bearings on the new FTH30LD2 I got a couple days ago. I ran into some trouble. This is the first lever drag I've ever tried to take apart, EVER. I figured what the heck. If I screw it up I can send it to one of you fella's to help this poor Texan out. So, in I went.

It started off well enough. I got the left side plate off. Then I took the lever drag pieces off, making sure it was in the free spool position when I did it. Then I tried to take the little phillips head screws out of the spool that hold the clicker gear. Well, they wouldn't budge. In fact I was afraid I was going to round them out. So, rather than bugger them up too bad, I left them alone. I went to the other side of the spool. Took the spring off. Took out the one bearing, and a washer. Then I took the long brass looking thrust bearing. That's as far as I was willing to go on it. I cleaned as much as I could off the spindle, and thrust bearing. I cleaned the bearing itself with some carb cleaner, and aired it off. Then I oiled the bearing, thrust bearing, and spindle. I added a few drops to the spindle on the other end as well, hoping it would get down into it well enough. At that point I figured I'd gone as far as I dared, and was going to put her back together. And, in a colossal brain fart, I accidentally tipped the right side plate far enough the drag break fell out, and nearly took the anti reverse dogs with it. I was horrified that I'd just messed up my new reel. A close inspection revealed the dogs ears were more robust than I thought. And, thankfully, they weren't bent. I gently placed the brake plate back into its nest, and proceeded on.

And, this is where I thought I was done for. I put the left side plate on, and then tried to put the drag lever back together. Funny thing that drag lever. It refused to be screwed back on. And, the adjustment knob just flat out would not catch on the end of the spindle. I fiddled with it over an hour. Then, it dawned on me as I was thinking of the tutorial. I was supposed to hold the spool over, compressing the spring, and pushing the end of the spindle through so the adjustment knob could catch. That's it!!!

So, off the left side plate came. And, I gave the drag lever another go. I thought I had her licked, but each time I got the adjustment knob on the drag lever either wouldn't move. Or, when it did move it wouldn't move far. Plus, there was no free spool!!! What did I do?? I was thinking this ole country boy done messed up his new reel again. It was then that I noticed the little lip on the lever that fits over the little rail on the reel. Well, howdy do. It's supposed to go over that little rail, ain't it. So, I put the little lever over the rail, and gave it another go. After about 5 more tries I finally got the adjustment knob on, the lever straight, in free spool, and on the little rail. I think I'm in business. So, I adjusted the drag just by feel. Shucks, I don't even have line on this thing yet. When it felt about right(I know, no scale, sorry), I tested the free spool.

When I started this hours long adventure I had only about 5 seconds of free spool on my new reel, barely 5 seconds. After my mishaps, feaupaux's, and goof ups, I now have an honest 20 full seconds of free spool with an empty spool. I quadrupled my free spool time with nothing more than cleaning one spool bearing, wiping some grease off the spindle and thrust bearing, and adding some oil. Happy! Happy! Happy! ;D ;D ;D

I just want to say thanks for the tutorial here ya'll. I'd still be in my man cave scratching my head without it!!! ;D ;D


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Rivverrat on August 07, 2016, 04:10:19 PM
mley1, I would make the friendly suggestion that you order up some extra parts such as dogs, an extra set of all fasteners & small parts. This can save you the headache when these mishaps that can & will take place when servicing our reels. Having these extra parts on hand will give you confidence & help remove some of the anxiety that can go with this endeavor when learning.
 I highly recommend Scott's Bait & Tackle for Penn parts. There staff is highly knowledgeable, helpful & they are very quick with your order....Jeff


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: mley1 on August 07, 2016, 10:00:41 PM
mley1, I would make the friendly suggestion that you order up some extra parts such as dogs, an extra set of all fasteners & small parts. This can save you the headache when these mishaps that can & will take place when servicing our reels. Having these extra parts on hand will give you confidence & help remove some of the anxiety that can go with this endeavor when learning.
 I highly recommend Scott's Bait & Tackle for Penn parts. There staff is highly knowledgeable, helpful & they are very quick with your order....Jeff

Thanks for the suggestion Jeff. I agree. When it comes to these lever drag reels I don't have a clue, and having some spare parts on hand is a good idea. I have a few spare parts for my Abu's.  I was really just winging it from memory of this tutorial here. My man cave is in the garage, away from my big screen computer screen. I probably should have popped out my Iphone and looked at the tutorial while I was working. But, I didn't until I got into some trouble trying to figure things out. That lever drag was a lot different than my Abu's or my Penn 704z's, or any of the other reels I have. Right now I only have the Penn FTH30LD2 lever drag and the big Daiwa SLT30 2 speed lever drag. And, after my experience with the Penn I'm not too sure I want to crack open the Daiwa by myself.

You know, I really don't think the Fathom was more difficult to work than my Abu's, just different. I had never worked on one before. I think once I do it a few times, and get the hang of how everything goes together it will go a lot smoother. I will say that once I got her all buttoned up, and she ran better than when I started, it was very satisfying. It always feels good when you can work on your own equipment, and are self reliant. And, again, thanks to everyone who do these tutorials. They are a godsend to those of us who are less experienced.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: lonehawkstation on May 10, 2017, 02:53:57 AM
Any chance someone recorded a service video on this reel?  I'm a total N00B in service reels and a vid would help tremendously.  Willing to buy beer.  ;D


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on July 16, 2017, 09:17:46 PM
Any chance someone recorded a service video on this reel?  I'm a total N00B in service reels and a vid would help tremendously.  Willing to buy beer.  ;D

I personally don't do vids as I don't find them as useful to find just the part you are having trouble with...a photo tutorial always has more detail, imo and allows more discussion.


best


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: StuPidaso on July 27, 2017, 10:42:25 PM
I recently got a 40lds and I'm experiencing side load with only 12 lbs or so of drag. Still has good free spool just a lot of resistance when reeling. Is this a bearing issue? I want to try and fix it myself as most of the repair shops are backed up.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on July 28, 2017, 12:28:49 AM
I recently got a 40lds and I'm experiencing side load with only 12 lbs or so of drag. Still has good free spool just a lot of resistance when reeling. Is this a bearing issue? I want to try and fix it myself as most of the repair shops are backed up.

I posted the same in your other thread:

"Its probably not side load, but as Steelfish posted, it probably is just you not being used to the high speed for the (relatively) heavy spool and the drag assembly that is mounted on it. It makes it feel weird (a little heavy) to someone used to the very light spools of a star drag reel."

All a star drag has is the spool and the bearings to turn over. An LD reel has the large drag assembly mounted on the spool as well as the extra pinion.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: StuPidaso on July 28, 2017, 12:41:21 AM
Thanks for the reply. Should it be difficult just to yo yo a heavy jig? It felt like a 3 lb fish. That was at relatively light drag.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Rivverrat on July 31, 2017, 04:44:56 PM
Things like this are hard to diagnose by someones description alone with out having the reel. However based on your last description you might have an issue.

 Does the reel make any noise when cranked in free spool & when engaged ?  Again this is hard to diagnose from a far. Also if your not familiar with how a proper one should sound or act. I suggest taking to a tackle shop familiar with these reels & get some thoughts. Please keep us informed. Also others here may see your post & have some things for you to look at....Jeff 


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on August 04, 2017, 07:44:19 PM
Thanks for the reply. Should it be difficult just to yo yo a heavy jig? It felt like a 3 lb fish. That was at relatively light drag.

Check the left side Thrust Bearing Assembly to be sure it is free of corrosion and well-lubed. Or, send it in to Penn. They will know what to do in an instant in all likelihood. May be a warranty issue.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: sbsyncro on August 04, 2017, 09:56:28 PM
I recently got a 40lds and I'm experiencing side load with only 12 lbs or so of drag. Still has good free spool just a lot of resistance when reeling. Is this a bearing issue? I want to try and fix it myself as most of the repair shops are backed up.

I'm having the exact same problem with the 40 NLD2.  I just finished tearing it down, inspecting and re-greasing everything and it still has the problem. Very hard to wind when set to around 15# of strike drag.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Straitfishing on October 16, 2017, 06:27:43 AM
Torn between buying a Fathom 15 2spd or a Shimano Torium 16hga.

I want to fish it out of the box. Application will be slow pitch jigging at 100-300ft, 30lb braid, target species; grouper, snapper, bass etc. The rod is one of them super lightweight jigging rods.

Torium looks more streamline but is slightly bigger. The fathom has a better free spool which might be better to bounce my jigs at the bottom. Anyone with both able to advise?


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on October 16, 2017, 03:47:17 PM
Torn between buying a Fathom 15 2spd or a Shimano Torium 16hga.

I want to fish it out of the box. Application will be slow pitch jigging at 100-300ft, 30lb braid, target species; grouper, snapper, bass etc. The rod is one of them super lightweight jigging rods.

Torium looks more streamline but is slightly bigger. The fathom has a better free spool which might be better to bounce my jigs at the bottom. Anyone with both able to advise?

At those depths the reel you want is a Fathom 25N LD2. The extra spool height will move move line per turn (perfect for slow pitch) but you will have the extra gear for winching power.

I wouldn't fish a high speed star drag much deeper than 100-150 feet these days. 300' is just not worth it when you have 2-speeds available.

I haven't fished a Torium, but fished an Ocea Jigger 2000N for years.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Natarach on April 17, 2018, 03:26:04 AM
Hello. This is my first post and I need help

I have Fathom15 lever drag (single speed) and I feel it has “noticeable feeling of hard to turn handle ” when I set more preset and push the lever to Strike or Full position 

But when I set low preset the handle can turn easier as same as star drag reels (I only set the preset knob while lever  at the Free position)

This reel  is my first lever drag reel  I am not sure this situation always occur with all the lever drag reels? And it is rarely user of Penn fathom lever drag in my country so I sak here ( sorry if it is seems silly)

Thank you
Natarach



Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: alantani on April 17, 2018, 04:31:51 AM
pretty classic.  it's likely the right main side plate bearing, or pinion bearing.  it is always the first thing to fail.  and welcome!!!!!


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Natarach on April 17, 2018, 05:01:32 AM
pretty classic.  it's likely the right main side plate bearing, or pinion bearing.  it is always the first thing to fail.  and welcome!!!!!

Hello and thank you for the answer.

By the way my reel is new. I just bought it yesterday  and  still didnt use it for fishing but just test drag adjustment...


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Natarach on April 17, 2018, 12:57:05 PM
One more question

If I feel the drag at “strike” position is too lose and at “Full” position  is too tight .

This cant be help right ? Because I think it is determine by the shape of “two washer” (I dont know what to call it) between the preset knob and the Lever

Or there is an solution?

Thank you so much
Natarach


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Penn on April 17, 2018, 01:13:03 PM
Hello. This is my first post and I need help

I have Fathom15 lever drag (single speed) and I feel it has “noticeable feeling of hard to turn handle ” when I set more preset and push the lever to Strike or Full position  

But when I set low preset the handle can turn easier as same as star drag reels (I only set the preset knob while lever  at the Free position)

This reel  is my first lever drag reel  I am not sure this situation always occur with all the lever drag reels? And it is rarely user of Penn fathom lever drag in my country so I sak here ( sorry if it is seems silly)

Thank you
Natarach





Natarach,

Lever drag reels and their drag system are nothing similar to star drag reels.  With a star drag you can crank the drag down as much as you want and in most cases not notice any difference in handle resistance. With a lever drag, especially a small one like the 15 you will notice as the drag gets tighter the handle resistance gets harder, this is perfectly normal.  I would suggest using a drag scale and checking what your drag is set at, it shouldn't be set any more than 13lbs at strike.  Our Fathom LD's use a thrust bearing which helps reduce the amount of handle resistance (especially compared to the competition) but it will not go away completely.  

tony


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Natarach on April 17, 2018, 01:53:12 PM
Hello. This is my first post and I need help

I have Fathom15 lever drag (single speed) and I feel it has “noticeable feeling of hard to turn handle ” when I set more preset and push the lever to Strike or Full position  

But when I set low preset the handle can turn easier as same as star drag reels (I only set the preset knob while lever  at the Free position)

This reel  is my first lever drag reel  I am not sure this situation always occur with all the lever drag reels? And it is rarely user of Penn fathom lever drag in my country so I sak here ( sorry if it is seems silly)

Thank you
Natarach





Natarach,

Lever drag reels and their drag system are nothing similar to star drag reels.  With a star drag you can crank the drag down as much as you want and in most cases not notice any difference in handle resistance. With a lever drag, especially a small one like the 15 you will notice as the drag gets tighter the handle resistance gets harder, this is perfectly normal.  I would suggest using a drag scale and checking what your drag is set at, it shouldn't be set any more than 13lbs at strike.  Our Fathom LD's use a thrust bearing which helps reduce the amount of handle resistance (especially compared to the competition) but it will not go away completely.  

tony

Hello Tony

Thank you very much for the explanation . I feel better now :D

Anyway are you really  Penn’s staff?  I am new member here so sorry for asking somehing weired.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Keta on April 17, 2018, 02:00:28 PM
Hello Tony....

....Anyway are you really  Penn’s staff? 

Yup, he is.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Penn on April 17, 2018, 02:40:22 PM
Hello. This is my first post and I need help

I have Fathom15 lever drag (single speed) and I feel it has “noticeable feeling of hard to turn handle ” when I set more preset and push the lever to Strike or Full position  

But when I set low preset the handle can turn easier as same as star drag reels (I only set the preset knob while lever  at the Free position)

This reel  is my first lever drag reel  I am not sure this situation always occur with all the lever drag reels? And it is rarely user of Penn fathom lever drag in my country so I sak here ( sorry if it is seems silly)

Thank you
Natarach





Natarach,

Lever drag reels and their drag system are nothing similar to star drag reels.  With a star drag you can crank the drag down as much as you want and in most cases not notice any difference in handle resistance. With a lever drag, especially a small one like the 15 you will notice as the drag gets tighter the handle resistance gets harder, this is perfectly normal.  I would suggest using a drag scale and checking what your drag is set at, it shouldn't be set any more than 13lbs at strike.  Our Fathom LD's use a thrust bearing which helps reduce the amount of handle resistance (especially compared to the competition) but it will not go away completely.  

tony

Hello Tony

Thank you very much for the explanation . I feel better now :D

Anyway are you really  Penn’s staff?  I am new member here so sorry for asking somehing weired.

Yes I am, I am the PENN Parts and Service Manager working out of Philadelphia.  You will also see posts from Tunanorth who is PENN Pro-Staff/Ambassador. 

tony


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Natarach on April 17, 2018, 02:57:32 PM
Thank you tony and Keta


By the way tony ,would you please give me some knoeledge about this ?

One more question

If I feel the drag at “strike” position is too lose and at “Full” position  is too tight .

This cant be help right ? Because I think it is determine by the shape of “two washer” (I dont know what to call it) between the preset knob and the Lever

Or there is an solution?

Thank you so much
Natarach

Thank you
Natarach


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Penn on April 17, 2018, 03:16:27 PM
You can try adjusting the shim amount in between the 2 washers (154B on the schematic) to adjust the drag curve.

tony


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Natarach on April 18, 2018, 12:26:11 AM
You can try adjusting the shim amount in between the 2 washers (154B on the schematic) to adjust the drag curve.

tony

Thank you tony


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: SoCalAngler on April 18, 2018, 02:12:46 AM
You really need a scale to set your drags correctly IMO. Penn said 13 lbs at strike, for me that setting would be for 40 lb test. The Fathom 15 would not be my first choice for a 40 lb test reel. Not that it is a bad reel I just like something bigger for 40 lb test and above.

I set all my LD reels at 1/4 to 1/3 of the weakest of the lines on my reel, be it the backing or topshot/leader. I set that amount at the strike position. Lets just say the weakest line on your reel is 30 lb test. For me I would set the drag at strike position between 7.5 to 10 lbs. I'm sure if you set your reel this way the handle resistance will be minimal when cranking the reel.

I like to use the strike position this way because of a few things. First, I know where my drag is set at and know this position will be where most of the fighting of the fish will be done. Second, If I ever need more drag for any reason all I have to do is move the lever past strike to get it. Third, If I want less drag I don't have to move my lever all the way to strike.

To me it sounds like you may be turning the preset too much for the lever and exceeding the max 13 lbs at strike for this reel. This will make the handle harder to crank at strike, even harder as you move the lever past strike and again even harder as you move the lever towards full. Be careful not to do this as this can damage any LD reels.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Natarach on April 18, 2018, 03:26:51 AM
You really need a scale to set your drags correctly IMO. Penn said 13 lbs at strike, for me that setting would be for 40 lb test. The Fathom 15 would not be my first choice for a 40 lb test reel. Not that it is a bad reel I just like something bigger for 40 lb test and above.

I set all my LD reels at 1/4 to 1/3 of the weakest of the lines on my reel, be it the backing or topshot/leader. I set that amount at the strike position. Lets just say the weakest line on your reel is 30 lb test. For me I would set the drag at strike position between 7.5 to 10 lbs. I'm sure if you set your reel this way the handle resistance will be minimal when cranking the reel.

I like to use the strike position this way because of a few things. First, I know where my drag is set at and know this position will be where most of the fighting of the fish will be done. Second, If I ever need more drag for any reason all I have to do is move the lever past strike to get it. Third, If I want less drag I don't have to move my lever all the way to strike.

To me it sounds like you may be turning the preset too much for the lever and exceeding the max 13 lbs at strike for this reel. This will make the handle harder to crank at strike, even harder as you move the lever past strike and again even harder as you move the lever towards full. Be careful not to do this as this can damage any LD reels.

Thank you SoCalAngler for the advice  :D

Since this is my first lever drag reel What I noticed about the resistance of cranking the handle maybe actually just a little resistance compared with the other lever drag reels (but I never try other) I just feel it is different from  star drag reels and that resistance relate to the preset

Thank you again for you guys here you are really awesome angler and very nice to newbie like me.  ;D







Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Natarach on April 21, 2018, 03:04:57 PM
Hi everyone :D

I tested the drag by lifting  water bottle (5lbs weight) and found that

set the drag at only 5lbs  is tight enough to bend the Berkley dual flex med- heavy action 8’  to the  point that Im afraid it will break  :P

Just realized that 5-6 lbs drag is tighter than I imagine because in the past I only set the drag by feel it



Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: johndtuttle on April 22, 2018, 05:44:24 PM
Hi everyone :D

I tested the drag by lifting  water bottle (5lbs weight) and found that

set the drag at only 5lbs  is tight enough to bend the Berkley dual flex med- heavy action 8’  to the  point that Im afraid it will break  :P

Just realized that 5-6 lbs drag is tighter than I imagine because in the past I only set the drag by feel it




Yep. Its not "5#" pressure when you are holding a rod, the lever of the rod makes 5# feel like 20# or more in your hand.

If you set your drag so that you can lift a 15# weight with your rod (a real 15# of drag setting) it will feel like 45-50# or more holding the rod (lever working against you) and of course, break many rods. Virtually everyone is shocked when they first try this.

This is also why fishing 15# of drag is best done on 60# of line regularly, or at least 40# if rarely used or for short durations...during a real fight with a real fish that amount of pressure will break the line or knots over time....you can really only get away with 15# of drag with 40# for brief and short fights or a lot of angler skill etc etc.

25% of the rated breaking strength of the weakest line has been a rule for a long time, based on experience with real fish.

This is also why true big game reels (for fishing 25# of drag day in and day out for years) are built like tanks like a Penn International.

 :D


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: handi2 on April 22, 2018, 11:06:13 PM
Concerning drag ratings I have a Shimano drag scale mounted to a vise in my shop. I use it for checking the drag straight off the reel.

When a customer comes in asking about the drag on his or her reel this is what I do.

I have the reel on a rod and have them pull as hard a they can. 95% of the time its 20lbs. That’s all they can pull with the rod bent double.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: spize909 on June 16, 2019, 05:37:27 PM
I borrowed a 30ld2 from my buddy and when I got it his handle was bent. He'd landed a couple 50-70 lb bft on it a few weeks ago and handed off his 3rd fish so he's not real sure what happened but it was bent pretty bad. Anyway I told him I'd order a handle and swap it out for him. I am at this point and not sure how this plate is removed? As near as I can tell is should just pull off? I can find any type of clip holding it on?



Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: spize909 on June 16, 2019, 06:08:46 PM
I figured it out.....the piece is a lot thinner then I thought.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Chrishb7 on November 20, 2019, 09:43:21 PM
Hello all. Took my fathom 40nld2 apart to clean bearings. Noticed there was only one Belleville distance washer 154b and the parts guide states there’s supposed to 2 in between the spring washers. Was wondering if I need to order another washer or will or not make a difference
Chris


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Penn on November 21, 2019, 11:13:10 AM
Chris,

Is this reel new or been fished?  Check under the click ratchet (66A).  Sometimes the one gets stuck under there.  

tony


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Chrishb7 on November 22, 2019, 10:53:30 PM
It’s brand new never fished. I only found the one washer. Ordered another one to fit between there. Just thought it was weird and am wondering since the original picture looks like only one in there but the parts picture shows 2


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Penn on November 25, 2019, 12:46:38 PM
It’s brand new never fished. I only found the one washer. Ordered another one to fit between there. Just thought it was weird and am wondering since the original picture looks like only one in there but the parts picture shows 2

There should definitely be two, John's pic from the first page is below.  The 2 washers to the right are the Bellville washers    

https://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_7_29_10.jpeg

tony


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Chrishb7 on November 27, 2019, 09:51:40 PM
I am talking about the washers sandwiched by the 2 on the right. You can see one stuck to the last washer. The parts list shows 2 in there but the picture only looks like one. Mine only had one but I mixed up them putting them back together and had to look at the diagram to put them back together and it showed 2. Just curious.
Chris


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: niswanger on February 14, 2020, 07:47:50 PM
Ahoy mateys!

First post, hopefully not my last.  Pretty cool this is a SMF forum...I ran one back around 2008 for my photography hobby.  Anyway, I'm getting back into trolling, specifically Kings off the coast of TX and picked up a used Fathom 25NLD2.  All works great except for the two speed button on the handle.  When I bought it it was stuck in low gear and just wouldn't pop out.  I figured at the used sale point I could probably fix it on my own.  Now I haven't gone past the 173A holder catch but did manage to remove everything upstream of it (110C, 172/ shift button and retainer).  I did this thinking it was just mucked up with debris/sand or something.  Well, can now manually put it in high gear or low gear using a similar dia sized alan wrench.  I used WD40 to flush the inside area the button assembly goes and a bit of compressed air.  I used some light oil and clean all that up.  The holder catch assembly and springs all seem good and functional.  They operate normally and spring back to catch the shift button shaft indent just fine.

But, for "some" reason the shift button shaft does not want to move in and out freely at all.  It feels as if the shaft is simply too big for the hole or the hole is too small.  This makes it stick and not pop out freely.  Of course I have yet to take it completely apart but before doing so I wanted to post this for info.  I see 18L is an internal spring and there's shaft assembly stuffs inside that might need some cleaning and attention, but honestly even it that area was good, that shaft on the shift button is just too darn tight.  One thing you might consider is that shaft could be bent?  Well, highly doubt it upon inspection, especially since I acutely pulled off the black cap by accident.  The shaft has splines where it seats in the black cap so when they were apart I rolled the shaft on a piece of glass and it certainly wasn't bent.  I have since put the shaft back in but with the addition of a small bit of jb-weld to keep it in place.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wepbVZBd0b4QD4_nk9jqLB3HJOICArPa_rB877pIE1SdFgxOb1umyyVvvcQzmPMOMmJFkZ1US3CJAJDlPiNrnGaV5GChNtLrBv5VyQ8QS51cHSdkQDJOAO5YIIe__KZZRpEC2prEHCY=w2400)

Any suggestions or help much appreciated.

Thank you,
Roy Niswanger



Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: alantani on February 14, 2020, 09:12:18 PM
Check to see if 173 is broken.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: niswanger on February 14, 2020, 09:29:20 PM
Check to see if 173 is broken.

Thank you for the prompt response, I will check this weekend and let you know.  I've had a number of Penn Senator's over the years for grouper and shark fishing in Florida.  My last Penn was a 330 GTi which I sold once I got to Austin, TX as I felt my Gulf fishing days were over.  Well now I'll be trolling for King in my kayak starting this summer and this Fathom 25NLD2 is my first lever drag and so far it seems like it will be my best reel I've ever owned in the class size.

-Roy


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: niswanger on February 15, 2020, 08:38:07 PM
Check to see if 173 is broken.

Found the issue: 

https://youtu.be/eqyHR75KXcw

Can youtube videos be embedded with bbc tags?  [youtube][/youtub] or [yt][/yt]?  Is the video embed mod installed on this forum?

Thank you,
Roy


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: alantani on February 15, 2020, 09:15:20 PM
yeah, this......

https://scottsbt.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204433145


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: niswanger on February 16, 2020, 09:37:19 PM
Well I'm having a new issue now.  I've taken a video.  Basically I've taken the spool out and back in and re-assembled the level drag countless times.  I just can't get the level drag to do what it's supposed to do or at least keep acting normal.  There were times it all seems good but then after full free-spool to sunset operation/movement, it became tight to sometimes not moving at all, seized.  

Please also note the mention of a washer I found out of place.  Whether I use the washer where I found it or not it doesn't seem to make a difference.  In addition from my tear-down this washer was not found to be left out of some other place.  However, there is one place of this reel I couldn't get to and that's the non-handle side of the spool.  There are 3 philips screws that hold the "gear click" in place and one of the screws I just couldn't budge, even with a drop of pb blaster, tapping some with a small ball-peen hammer and even used a right-angle screw driver for more torque.  I just didn't want to face a broken screw in the spool...that would have been bad!  So there are washers etc. on that side that I couldn't not double check, namely these and they are held captive because of the gear click and the bearing on that side.  

My issue again is getting this darn level drag to work as it should and I just can't figure it out.  Please help if you have any ideas.

https://youtu.be/4ii5uff14Xc

Thank you,
Roy


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Tightlines667 on February 17, 2020, 02:40:55 AM
I have not serviced these reels, but the metal washer is simply a shim that is used to asjust the spacing aling the spool shaft.  They typically are not on the schematics since each individual reel may be shimmed differently.  I would leave it in.  

Maybe try flupping the cam 180 degrees before install.  There is not 180 degrees of travel on the lever, so it must be installed correctly for the lever to function properly.  First install the cam follower with the lever in freespool, then install the cam 180 deg rotated.  You can actually just test the two parts on top of one another to determine the correct orientation.
Keep playing with ot and you will get it.

Also you need the left plate installed to stop the rotation of the spool shaft (pin locks into tail plate) for the pull drag system to function properly.

John


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: niswanger on February 17, 2020, 03:55:29 AM
Thanks Tightlines!

Well, the solution was found right here on this forum:  https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9685.0

That lever drag assembly is tricky...don't forget your 10, 7, and 4:30 o-clock positions :)

-Roy


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Rivverrat on February 17, 2020, 04:05:41 PM
 Its always a good feeling to get it sorted after being frustrated...Jeff


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Observer on May 03, 2020, 01:41:51 AM
Spending some time trying to get to know my Fathom 15LD.  

Thanks to John for the great walkthrough from page 1.  Following along, I've run into a couple of issues that hopefully someone can help answer.  

1.  Per schematic, there is a (21A) "Lever Quadrant Spacer".  What does this do?  I was very careful disassembling, but I'm not seeing this part on my lever drag arm.  Please see image below... did I lose mine??  


2.  A goal of taking this apart was to improve the freespool.  Out of the box brand new, it was maybe 5 seconds before coming to a stop.  I thought the main area of focus should be around the main axle that runs through the spool and the series of bearings, washers, and brass sleeve, thinking the factory may have put too much grease in that area.  Initial inspection was not bad.  I cleaned up while in there, and re-applied a light coat of Yamalube, re-assembled, and it was still 5 seconds.  Took it back apart and using carb cleaner, thoroughly got rid of all the grease on the axle, bearings, washers, and sleeve, and tried using a light coat of TSI 321.  Re-assembled and still 5 seconds.  Took back apart, triple checked the assembly per the schematic, and every single part is where it should be and facing the right direction (especially the belleville assembly of 8 parts).  The only questionable item is (#8) that appears to be bent brass washer??   Is this normal?  I know there is another bearing (#26N) that is buried behind the high/low speed gears, but as a beginner, I didn't venture out to disassemble "that deep", until I have more confidence with the reel.  Assuming everything is right, does the bearing behind the gears have a significant impact on the freespool?  I don't need 1 minute of freespool, but 20-30 seconds would be nice.  I'm a bit intimidated going deeper (at the moment) as I'm worried I may either be causing more harm than good.


Finally, I'd like to ask for suggestions on having of set of common parts on hand that are normally replaced through self servicing or "lost" such as the lever drag pin and spring due to its size and design. Aside from the main 6 screws plus the back plate screws to hold everything together, are there other parts that are recommended to have "spares" on hand?

Thanks!



Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Rivverrat on May 06, 2020, 05:15:02 PM
I would keep spare bearings & any small springs on hand for spares. On reels that have become keepers that I fish weekly I have extra spool & shaft & any drag washer & any plastic spacers.

 Dont use grease on spool bearings when you desire good free spool. To much grease some where can & has been an issue in the past with these reels regarding free spool. Check that your drag assembly is not rubbing in free spool. If bearings check out alright, something is more than likely making contact somewhere it shouldn't.   Is this a new reel ? ... Jeff


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Observer on May 06, 2020, 07:01:35 PM
Thanks Jeff

Yes, its new and never been fished.  I'm a newb and just trying to learn.

No grease on the spool bearings, OK.  But I thought the consensus was to use a bearing packer ?? (still trying to figure out what that is and does) and fill it will grease once you take the shields off.  The current state of the bearings are cleaned  with carb cleaner and use TSI 321.  Figured since there was no grease in there, I'll just do a little more frequent preventative maintenance of cleaning and oiling since I'm not using grease on those parts.   

Sorry for the newb question, but how do I "check the drag assembly is not rubbing in free spool"?  When the reel is all apart, I don't think I can put it in freespool, since the lever arm is completely detached.  When full assembled, I can put it in freespool, but wouldn't know how to make sure there was no rubbing inside.  Maybe as a next step, I'll take a look at just the bearing all by itself, and spin it, and see how long it spins with no axle or anything. 

   


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Rivverrat on May 06, 2020, 07:35:20 PM
 OK, with your reel being new it would be hard to find actual rub marks. Lets try something a bit different.  Spool your reel with at least 50 lb. line. Or at least 20 - 30 yards Your going to tie off the line to something solid then your going to walk off line with drag engaged. Start around 10 lbs. of resistance & keep going until the drag gets warm almost hot. Working up to 18 -20 lbs. of drag. All while walking line off.  I personally have never seen a lever drag that didn't perform better in some way after doing this when new. Yes I've seen it correct what your experiencing.

   What this does is squish the drag washer down giving better drag performance & possibly correct any clearance issue the carbon fiber drag may be causing. Same thing a large fish will do running off yards of line at high drag for the reel used

 Your questions are why some of us come here. To read & learn. Any question regarding reels is worth while here. Being able to service your own reel only adds to the enjoyment for some of us.  Of course you could just send your reel back to Penn... but if your willing to go forward you will gain knowledge & no longer worry about doing a simple service on your reel & have the willing support of many here... Jeff


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Observer on May 06, 2020, 08:13:45 PM
Wow.  What a warm welcome.

Thanks. 

I'll give your suggestion a try and report back.... just as soon as my spring scale arrives, LOL.



Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Rivverrat on May 06, 2020, 08:51:42 PM
 Look forward to seeing if this helps. Just to be sure, you have checked, double checked, drag assembly, any spacers & rest to make sure all is in its right place & order ? Check inside of reel & spool for globs of grease. From what I've heard the newer Fathom's dont have the way to much grease issue. I'd still check... Jeff


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Observer on May 06, 2020, 09:10:41 PM
I'll be taking this guy apart again later today, and these days, you can't ever check enough times... so.. I plan to get to the bottom of this!!

Will post photos of what I believe are the critical areas, the order of the washers and miscellaneous parts, and the current state of lube/greese.

Thanks Again.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Observer on May 11, 2020, 05:02:55 AM
Well, still working on the reel.  Along the way, I had some scary moments in my attempt to remove the shields from bearings 55L.  I tried to pull the clip out on each side, but picking at the edge of the clip ended up gouging the shield, and that would certainly not work.  Luckily, was able to just pry out the shields on both sides but the clip was not removed.  Not going to mess with that anymore.  Difficult to explain, but it appears the clip is nestled under the lip of the outer frame of the bearing making it impossible to pull/pick out.  Any pressure would just rotate the clip.  Most likely, I'm just not experienced enough with removing bearing clips.   Anyways, all shields are gone on both 55L bearings, and I soaked them again overnight in carb cleaner.

Re-assembled, and no improvement without the shields.  Next, tried a couple of combinations of flipping the counterbored bearing washer of the belleville assembly and the spring washer (#8) and any combination doesn't seem to make much difference in freespool.  I believe I have everything up to this point correct, and really figured that the biggest "bang for the buck" for improved freespool would be the drag disengaging spring and upstream with focus on the 2 bearings (26N) across the spool. 

No such luck for me, so I'll have to muster up some courage to go deeper, and look into remaining 3 bearings starting with 55A, and for me the scary one is 26N.  John's photo on page 1 showing "OMG what have we done" where there are about 20 pieces after disassembly is what is a bit intimidating. 

My current plan is to access each bearing, remove the shields, soak overnight in carb cleaner, 1-2 drops of TSI321, and then re-assemble (hopefully correctly) and without any spare parts.  If that doesn't work, then I'll have to think about it more.

 


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: alantani on May 11, 2020, 03:45:20 PM
for spool bearings, i've been leaving the outside race in place, just removing the inside race.  the open side allows for a thorough cleaning, the closed side allows for some level of protection from water.  i dunno.  after all these years, i am still not sure what's better......   :-\


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: JK47 on May 11, 2020, 06:04:28 PM
Check to see if 173 is broken.

I recently switched the handle/arm on my Torque 40NLD2 to a Visx16 handle/arm. After the replacement, the button (172) to switch between high/low gear was getting stuck when trying to release, in one direction only, not the other. Took it apart a few minutes ago, and sure enough one of the 173's is broke.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Observer on May 15, 2020, 02:08:56 AM
Continuation of my saga...

Well, to make a long story short, you can just read this 1st paragraph.  There still hasn't been any improvements in my freespool.  Still about 5 seconds before it comes to a stop.  Not sure what else I can do at this point, besides swapping in some bearings (55L) from a "good freespinning" Fathom 2 speed reel to eliminate potentially "bad bearings".  The status quo of freespool performance was maintained after I mustered the courage to do a FULL breakdown, and luckily I was able to re-assemble everything without any spare parts, and hopefully in the correct order.  There are some learnings here that I will come back to later in this post.

(longer version below...)

However, some interesting new "learnings" that I'd like to share for posterity.

I also own a Fathom 25NLD2 that is my "reference" which is brand new, never fished, never even spooled (until very recently), and has been "Cal-ed".  It is my "reference" because that spins for a country mile and a half.  Cal's shop really has this reel dialed-in and knows this reel inside and out.  Yes, I did take this apart, however, I only went as far as exposing the belleville assembly and spool.  No further.  Did not disassemble / go underneath the metal drag washer which encloses the main gears and all the other bits.  Too chicken at this time.  Last thing I want is potentially 2 jacked up reels. 

So, the observations and learnings from the "reference" 25N.  First, I noticed the main screws around the housing were all flat heads as opposed to the "semi-phillips" style on my 15 and other Fathom lever drag reels.  Perhaps this particular 25N is an earlier model, or the factory made a boo-boo, or it's part of Cal's service that swaps out the screws with flatheads.  Don't think it matters in any case, but it was the 1st thing I noticed as I carefully disassembled.  Next, I noticed Cal's work on the cam, which was modified/machined.  Nice.  Removed lever arm to release any pressure, and on to the left cover.  Nothing remarkable here, with the exception of a fairly high amount of a torque on the 3 screws securing what I call the "crown" aka (66A) Click Gear.
 The Fathom 15 are torqued firm, but not to the level that these were, and I can't imagine it making that much of a difference, but I guess I can put that on the list of things I can try.  Upon removal, now we can carefully slide out the main axle and remove the spool from the frame.  Some differences here.  Starting with the carbon fiber drag side of the spool, there is the familiar spring (41) that sits on top of bearing (55A) within the metal drag washer, but between them lies a cupped washer, which is not on the schematic of the 15, 25N, or 40N.  Interesting.
 Perhaps Cal's handiwork?  Earlier model of the 25N?  Speculation.  Let's move on.  On the opposite side of the spring, there is another cupped washer that is also not on the schematic on the 15, 25N, or 40N.  This washer, I think, could play a role in better freespool performance as it may be there to ensure pressure is evenly distributed across only the inner race of bearing (55L), whereas the spring may have manufacturing variability and not contact just the inner race.  Speculation.  Let's move on.  Removing the bearing (55L), I discover another washer.  Another difference between the schematics.  So far, 3 new washers that are not documented.  Hmmmm....  Let's move on to the opposite side of the spool.  The same (55L) bearing does NOT have a washer sitting inside the spool.  Interesting it's not "matched".  But, it does match the schematic, with no washer.  Perhaps the brass sleeve does this duty?  Now, onto the final piece, the series of parts that make up the belleville assembly.  Now I always counted 8 discrete parts.  Starting from the "crown", we have ( | | ) { | } ).  (excuse the ASCII art, but 8 individual components there.)  On the reference, it is exactly the same, with... you guessed it.. another washer that is added after the "tiny curvy brass washer" (#8) spring washer.  It is also curvy, but not brass. So a total of 9 parts on the reference.

So, what to do?  Put the reference back together to make sure I didn't jack anything up.  Mostly it works exactly the same with no spare parts.  Whew.  Hopefully it's fine.  Freespool, still good.  Spins very well (maybe slightly less well than disassembly), but still very good, so I'm going to let this one go for the time being.

What about the 15?  Well, this is where I think the next step is to play musical parts with things like bearings to see if I can isolate a "bad part"?  Along the way of disassembly, I learned that I lack some necessary tools and could use some suggestions from the community.  Clip removers.  Particular tool, or just a curved pick?  Re-inserting clips, is there a different tool?  Bearing puller when it's seated tightly in the spool as an example.  Something like tweezers, that can clear the inner diameter, but when "released" would span open, and pull from the backside to pull straight up/out?  Finally, some rubber padded channel lock pliers for things like removing the handle without biting into the anodizing knurled grip?  Brand/model recommendations?   

As far as the freespool goal, I'm continuing to think through other/better steps.
 
Thanks for reading along for those of you that are still awake.  It's painful as a beginner, but I really want to get to the bottom of this and learn to service these things myself. 



The adventure continues..





Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Brendan on May 15, 2020, 01:46:17 PM
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=29915.0
Here’s a link for a bearing puller. Until recently i had only used it on my personal reels that were well serviced so not much of a test. My friend handed over some abused Trinidad’s and they were helpful.
Best tip on clips I don’t know the post but whatever you use for the tool, put the reel in a plastic bag.
Good luck, Brendan


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Observer on May 15, 2020, 04:15:01 PM
Thank you Brendan!

Will have to inquire with Ernie. 

Nice idea on the bag over the clips.  I figured no matter what, I was likely going to loose some to "flight", so was planning to add them to my list of spare parts. 





Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Brendan on May 18, 2020, 05:22:52 PM
I can’t take credit for the bag trick but I picked it up here. When I forget or rush I pay with time wasted looking for a clip.
Tight lines, Brendan.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Observer on May 19, 2020, 10:41:11 PM
Brendan,

Thanks again.  I did contact Ernie, and he was kind enough to meet me the same day and I picked up a couple of his bearing pulling tools.  Very happy with them.  Ernie is a super chill guy and if anyone is on the fence, I'd recommend reaching out to him.  He is not interested in going mass production on these tools, and is doing it just as a hobby.  The way I look at it, it is a custom, handmade (hand machined) tool that is made one at a time as a labor of love and very high quality for its intended purpose.  Fortunate to have met him.

 



Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Observer on May 19, 2020, 10:57:04 PM
Well...

I was hoping there would be a lot more activity/discussion on this thread with the sheer number of experienced Fathom users/maintainers out there, but it seems like I'm mostly just documenting my observations.

To bring my journey to a close, I've improved freespool to an acceptable level through much experimentation.  I've seen acceptable (metric: 15-20s) performance improvements in both shielded and non-shielded spool bearings, so my general conclusion given my criteria is that it doesn't seem to make much of a difference.  I plan to maintain the reel after every sport boat trip with a minimum of a fresh water hose down, and semi-annual bearing clean/lube, and have accepted that maybe every 2-3 seasons (years), the bearings in general will be consumable items, and will be replaced.

    


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Pierce on August 08, 2020, 01:55:05 PM
Hi,
I just bought a 40NLD2.  Just want to know if the handle knot can be replace witb a T-bar? Thanks.


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: alantani on August 08, 2020, 03:14:55 PM
it's pretty simple, but you have to pull the handle arm off and drill out the old grip.  a drill press is essential.   :-\


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Pierce on August 10, 2020, 01:55:30 PM
Is there a size for the old grip i should measure before i cut off the handle and drill out thr old grip? Or i can reuse the old grip back?


Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: steelfish on September 25, 2020, 01:18:59 AM
Hi,
I just bought a 40NLD2.  Just want to know if the handle knot can be replace witb a T-bar? Thanks.

of course it can be done, 2x better in my opinion

check this out
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=21999.0

I did it with a steady hand and cut discs with a dremel



Title: Re: Penn Fathom LD 2-Speed: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Post by: Rickman on October 10, 2021, 07:05:21 PM
Hola. Wrote about my 25nld2 on another thread. No free spool. Went through the tutorial again and saw that I could get at the drag washer fairly easily. Washer and everything around it was clean. I re greased it anyway and put lube around. When I put it back together the drag adjustment knob doesn't seem to catch soon enough to tighten before the adjustment should begin. The adjustment starts right away and then the drag is too tight and the knob isn't snug yet. What did I do?
Can't really tell yet about the free spool without it being together properly but it doesn't seem to have improved any! Won't be able to mess with it for a couple days....dentist visit tomorrow then looks like another hurricane to prep for.
Thanks