Abu Garcia Revo Toro NaCl 60HS Service Tutorial
Hey guys,
And now for something completely different...at least for me, anyways :). The Abu Garcia Revo Toro NaCl 60HS is a heavy duty saltwater bait caster that has been out for a little while now so we'll take a look at how to service the reel and protect it from saltwater. Of course, we will also give a look inside for guys considering them for their quiver who want to see the guts.
This service post is also coinciding with my own interest in this category of reel due to their terrific performance casting straight braid thanks to their level wind mechanisms and centrifugal casting brakes. Straight braid has become the "go to" for many light tackle saltwater casters of swimbaits and hard baits etc for the positive hook sets and ability to pack heavy line onto a small, light, but very potent package.
I think we'll find the Revo Toro's strong reputation is well founded as a solid reel for this emerging niche in saltwater fishing.
Meet the Revo Toro NaCl 60HS:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4305/35112155533_9befb12b0c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/VuJYxX)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4215/35112157163_eb67d378db_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/VuJZ34)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_13_19037790.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19038)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_13_190381777.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19039)
The wide angle lens I use for service posts always makes smaller reels look larger than they really are as the reel is only about 80mm long (~3 inches) and the spool width 40mm (~1.5 inches). The standard handle shown is 100mm or about 4 inches long. This is of course a "low profile" reel and has a height of only about 45mm (1.75 inches) over the reel seat and it all fits very nicely cradled in the hand.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_42_10_19072522.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19081)
The Bass guys may think it's huge but it's pretty small for a saltwater conventional :).
Of course, given it's compact dimensions and weight (11oz) it does not have an enormous line capacity but Abu Garcia rates it for about 300 yards of 30lb braid and a max drag of 20 lbs. This should give us quite an interesting package of abilities for light tackle applications nearshore/offshore (schoolie tuna and jacks or big Stripers).
Opening the left side of the reel is intended to be as needed over the day to manually adjust the centrifugal brake depending on casting needs and we can start there with the thumb operated Cam Lock Screw (51) but it may be a little tight out of the box and need a slotted screwdriver to get it started:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_16_190482228.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19049)
This permits a clockwise rotation of the Palm Side Plate (82) and it will lift off:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_16_190491133.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19050)
Giving us this view of the left side. The orange buttons you see there are the Brake Weights (78) that can be clicked "on" as needed to adjust braking depending on lure weight or wind conditions:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_17_19050395.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19051)
The Spool (77) lifts straight out:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_42_09_190771842.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19078)
A closer look at the Brake Weight Cover (97) held by 3 Screws (98).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_14_190411233.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19042)
A small Retainer (81) above, holds the Spool Pinon Gear (82) which we need to remove to service the left side Ball Bearing (79):
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_42_08_190751470.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19076)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_42_09_190761201.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19077)
A note here on Bearings...The bearing that you see here has removable shields and the remnants of blue grease that I had applied to the outside for corrosion protection. This is a Spool bearing and for maximum speed (potential distance) the shields would be removed and the bearing lubed with your choice of speed oil (ie TSI 321 or Reel-X etc) and the bearing left "open". Being just an avid amateur, and not a tech center stocked with replacements, I prefer to "let sleeping dogs lie" and leave the shields intact and oil them from the outside if I can get away with it.
As well, keep in mind one of the fine qualities of these reels are their braking systems to slow them down. Fishing a live bait (casting very light weights) faster is nearly always better, but for casting artificials there is a line of moderation that keeps our reel more easily manageable and produces fewer overruns. IOW, I rarely am concerned with max speed and am more concerned with ease of *regular* maintenance for reels I will use for casting artificial lures.
The right side spool Ball Bearing (79) gets a similar treatment. Note the light coat of marine grease I added to the spool to protect it:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_20_190641764.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19065)
The Brake Weight Cover has been removed here to show you the proper arrangement of the Weights (78) and their Springs (96). They will drop right out of there with the cover removed. Careful with the bits:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_14_190422303.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19043)
These are best left clean and dry (no oil or grease) to allow complete freedom of travel. Even oil over time can turn to "varnish" that will gum them up. It should be noted that Abu's "Sealed Centrifugal Brake" is not truly sealed (waterproof) but the mechanism is not completely "open" like other reels either. The Abu Garcia solution is the Cover keeping the small parts where they belong but allowing easy access for adjustment.
On the back side of the Side Plate is the Bearing Housing (93) held by 3 Screws (94). It also houses the "race way" for the Brakes to interact with which should be kept clean. On other reels the raceway occasionally gets a very light oiling if the brakes are howling:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_15_190452154.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19046)
The back side of the Housing mounts the Middle Gear (89) which drives the Worm Shaft (more on that later). The Middle Gear would need to be removed to get to the Click Spring (87) if required, but it was not removed for this service:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_15_190442499.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19045)
The Palm Side Plate (82) has the Click Claw (85) if you need to take care of it held by it's Retainer(86) going on the backside of the Click Button (83):
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_15_190431912.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19044)
The sideplate material appears to be a high impact resistant synthetic composite. I will let the gentle reader translate that :). Pretty much the industry standard for this class of reel.
To finish up the left side we should address the end of the hardened brass Worm Shaft (10) whose gear can be seen here. It is removed via the right side however and so only the final prep of the frame is seen here. We want a light coat of grease on all Frame (1) surfaces to protect the "X2 Craftic" alloy Frame (proprietary corrosion resistant aluminum alloy):
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_42_08_190721249.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19075)
To get the right side off (Gear Side Plate) we do need the spool removed however to access a Screw (75) that is otherwise covered by it:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_17_190511331.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19052)
Then we need to remove the Handle (71) via the Handle Nut (72) which is kept tight by the Handle Nut Cover (73) that is anchored on the handle with the Screw (74). A Washer (70) is seen on the underside of the handle (stuck on with a little grease, we like this :)).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_21_190671508.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19068)
The complete assembly removed:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_22_190682060.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19069)
(Above) the bottom row (L to R) are the Spring Washers (65) which go in () orientation. The Click Spring Holder (66) followed by a smaller set of Spring Washers (68) again in () orientation, then the Star Wheel (69) which may or may not have a small washer (shim) inside.
The Gear Side Plate (50) comes completely off of the Frame by removing 2 Screws (55) and the Screw (76) that also retains the Lube Port (54) shown here with the Brake Knob:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_22_19069702.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19070)
While we're at it we may as well take a closer look at the Brake Knob (64) assembly.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_42_10_190792090.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19080)
Above (L to R) there is the pinion Ball Bearing (57), it's retaining Ring (58), the Click Washer (59), Click Spring (60) and the second Click Washer (63) that goes inside the Knob. The tiny Friction and Rubber Washers (61 and 62) go inside the Washer (63). They were not removed as that would require some poking and prodding that might damage them. I would only remove them if they were so worn as to prevent the Brake Knob from properly working.
When we took the Pinion Ball Bearing out we used a thin probe on the Ring. This is right where they go *sproing* off into the nether so get a thumb over it to keep it from getting lost:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_20_190622322.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19063)
A closer look at the pinon Ball Bearing, it can be oiled or packed with grease. This bearing has no effect on free spool and grease would offer more protection:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_20_19063554.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19064)
Abu Garcia had this to say about their HPCR (High Performance Corrosion Resistant) bearings: "These ball bearings are made from a German stainless steel that has got extremely good anti corrosion properties, in fact better than our competition's. But it has also got other advantages. It can handle higher loads, higher RPM's, it has got better dry running behavior, and can also take more contamination without being damaged than regular stainless bearings".
This bearing is sealed from salt by the O Ring (arrow) which should not be removed unless required to avoid damage and a loss of sealing(56):
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_11_19032722.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19033)
But if they user backs off the Brake all the way then on older models saltwater could get to the bearing. That's why I be sure to pack this bearing with grease and grease the threads for the Knob. This can be a common source of corrosion otherwise and should be a very frequent site of monitoring.
This is how I like the Bearing to look after service, nice and packed with grease. I prefer to find soggy grease if saltwater has gotten inside rather than corrosion:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_42_09_190761832.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19079)
With all of the Screws removed as well as the handle we can lift off the Gear Side Plate and take a look at it's back side. This is our access to the One Way Clutch for cleaning and lube. The OWC is a pressed in bearing that is considered part of the Side Plate. It could be pressed out as required with proper tools and Abu Garcia had this to say about it: " (the One Way Clutch)...is pressed in but it can be exchanged by our service center. We do not list it as a separate part because the risk that someone will damage the side plate is obvious. Our testing shows that a press fitted OWC keeps the gears aligned better than a loose fitted OWC".
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_12_190351607.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19036)
We can certainly leave it in the side plate for routine service which would be flushing with Corrosion-X or other light oil. This generally will loosen any gummy residue. If push came to shove a degreasing with Simple Green or other plastic safe solvent would clean it nicely:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_16_190461288.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19047)
Ok, with the side plate off we get our first view of the guts of the reel:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_17_190522378.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19053)
What is worth noting is the massive relative size of the hardened brass Main Gear ("Duragear Brass"). This why the "low profile" geometry is so useful for us fisherman. It is more low profile and compact by pushing the Main Gear (44) forward. The gear can then be made much larger without growing the height of the reel as the spool remains only as big as is needed. The larger main gear equals more cranking power in a smaller package. Smaller reels can now crank in bigger fish :).
The Pinion Assembly. A bit on the "dry" side, we will well grease it all:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_18_190551875.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19056)
The Drag Stack:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_13_19039873.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19040)
The drag material is Abu Garcia's "Carbon Matrix Drag" a proprietary drag material. Of note it was dry from the factory and they had this to say: " In our lab testing the drag performs perfect without grease. We do a long endurance test and we test the smoothness after it is completed. We have not seen any advantage with greased over dry drag washers. The drag washer are made from carbon fiber and are somewhat self lubricating. If someone would like to add grease to the washers we recommend Penn's reel grease or dura lube as we have noticed that some popular after market greases makes the drag velocity dependent. (The drag increases as the spool rotates faster)".
From a saltwater angler's perspective greased drags are nice for several reasons, one, "startup" force is reduced and the drag is less jerky when it perhaps has not been tested in a while by a big enough fish to pull line but, two, it prevents saltwater intrusion into the drag washers which leads to corrosion and an extremely sticky drag. The pro reel techs tell me that most physical damage they see on a reel is caused by a jerky drag (as it creates forces greater than the reel is engineered to handle) so by greasing it we are protecting it from salt firstly and foremost, with smooth performance a bonus.
And it just so happens I have some of Penn's Precision Reel Grease so we will protect it all with that. :)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_19_190571334.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19058)
Both sides :):
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_18_190562277.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19057)
With the Main Gear removed:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_18_190532251.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19054)
Ratchet (42) and the famed Ambassadeur style dog Stopper (41) for back up anti-reverse:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_19_190582048.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19059)
A clear shot of the orientation of the Lift Curve (28), Clutch Plate (29) and the Kick Lever (25), Kick Lever Spring (26) and Clutch Spring (27). Removal is not shown but they were pulled out and their places in the Frame lightly greased:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_14_190402123.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19041)
A shot of the Pinion (33) and Yoke (31) in their proper orientation:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_19_19059289.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19060)
We want to get to the important Ball Bearing that supports the Main Gear Shaft (40) held in place by the Main Gear Shaft Plate (38) which is released by removing the Screws (39):
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_18_190541511.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19055)
Leading us to a notorious "sump" for saltwater collection in any number of reels with similar design, the receptacle in the frame for the Main Shaft Bearing. This image is an "after" shot that shows a complete light greasing of the Frame:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_12_190341340.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19035)
The Bearing (37) popped out. This will get packed with grease with one of Alan Tani's bearing packers:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_22_190711286.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19072)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_42_07_1907379.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19074)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_42_07_190722031.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19073)
The Plate partly retains the Worm Shaft assembly seen at the tip of the probe:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_22_190701064.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19071)
With it out of the way we can remove the c-clip Retainer (17), Washer (16), Worm Shaft Pin Holder (15), Worm Shaft (10) with it's Bearings (13,14) plus the left side assembly of Washers (11,12) and Retainer (9). Once the Gear side is dis-assembled it slips out the Palm side:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_16_19047953.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19048)
There is no free lunch here :)! The bearings and worm must be regularly oiled (not a grease fan for this part due to dirt collection). Some have stated they wish there were bushings instead of bearings here for a more maintenance free level wind mechanism but with an engaged worm when casting it must rotate very freely to prevent problems. And cast beautifully it does :).
Ok, a few tips when getting it back together...I am a "dipper" of screws in marine grease when their ends can be exposed to Salt:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_19_190601072.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19061)
You do have to be careful when the screw receptacle ends in a "blind pocket" as you can damage your reel over-torquing a screw when there is too much grease present. In the Revo Toro NaCl the ends of the threaded slots for the screws open to the outside, if not greased they will corrode. Here we can see rather than the end of a screw the grease that is protecting it:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_11_190321169.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19034)
And we like to see some coming out around the head too. Remember, these are dissimilar metals in contact that want to corrode simply being near Ocean air.
During re-assembly we want to be sure to get a nice barrier of grease under the Star to protect the OWC:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_20_190611885.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19062)
And a light coat on hidden surfaces with screw holes in them. This is the frame right where the Spool interacts with the Pinion:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_42_10_19081229.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19082)
Articulating surfaces on the handle get Corrosion-X:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_14_07_17_2_38_21_190662222.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19067)
It should be noted that the handle knobs do have bearings in them that should be regularly oiled. Simply remove the screw cap on the end and get some of your favorite protective oil in there.
Ok, that is what I have for the moment :).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Revo Toro NaCL HS shares many of the same features that it's brethren have yet importantly has a more corrosion resistant frame. This class of reel, really extra large and beefed up freshwater Bass reels, have become quite popular on both coasts and Abu Garcia has taken steps to make it a more complete saltwater reel than previous offerings with corrosion resistance and a power handle.
The tutorial I hope turns some guys onto this type of reel and helps others truly prep their own for the saltwater environment. All of the various tips covered can be applied to nearly any reel with one goal in mind: Helping your reel survive the salt and not let you down when you need it.
I think this style of reel is very exciting giving the guy who likes casting artificials more cranking power than comparable sized (11oz) spinning reels as well as far more castability than traditional conventional reels without a levelwind or casting brakes. Those last two features make casting braided lines easier than ever before with a conventional reel, pretty much relegating "professional overruns" to the rare occurrence for even an average caster.
With the growing popularity of braided lines and the "small reels, big fish" concept I think the large saltwater baitcast reels are here to stay. ;)
regards
;D Thanks man !! I just bought one of these and was curious to know if it was similar to my Revo Toro Winch .....
Thanks for the post
Just a question penn presicion grease is it blue and can it be used on the C/F washers?
Have seen this in other Posts Just thought the blue was not Teflon based
good tutorial and nice pics
thanks Jon
Quote from: jonnou on September 28, 2014, 08:14:50 AM
Thanks for the post
Just a question penn presicion grease is it blue and can it be used on the C/F washers?
Have seen this in other Posts Just thought the blue was not Teflon based
good tutorial and nice pics
thanks Jon
Penn recommends it for use on drag washers as they have found in their testing that it performs well.
I have no other experience with it other than that as far as fishing with it goes.
What I mean to say is that a Teflon based greased has been desirable for it's resistance to heat and this synthetic from Penn remains an unknown in that regard (it is not teflon based). Of course, the vast majority of reels have no real heat to deal with and this may be an issue really for only true big game reels that we have overblown from conservatism.
I think Alan has posted in the past that the non-drag marine greases he has experience with break down over time and lead to a jerky drag if used on the washers. How Penn Precision reel grease holds up in this regard remains to be seen.
What I do, do....is confidently grease the outside with Penn Grease with less concern of contamination of the Cal's grease on the washers inside (as you see here). Penn also has a product called "Dura Lube" that they are putting on their own washers now...very light and almost un-noticeable treatment I don't have much more information on.
regards
good stuff sir
now give the drag a straight pull
we,re lookin for 20lb
cheers mate
Thanks john that clears it up nicely
Always good to have options
Sent you a PM with Q's.
Steve
PS- got the reply, thanks!
Got a PM from Steve and we agreed that posting the Q&A was worth adding to the thread:
Quote from: Steve-O on May 26, 2015, 07:11:16 PM
Hello,
i really enjoyed your Abu Toro Salt reel thread and have fished with Abu's for quite a while now. Mostly with the Round baitcasters locally and in Alaska each year.
What I want to do now is try the low profile Revo line and am stuck with too many choices. My top choice would be the Revo NaCl 60 for casting to Silver Salmon and jigging for light rockfish, cod, nearshore salt water species.
Next down the line could be any of the other Revo entries that still have the stacked drag washers vs a single washer like the Okuma Citrix I took to AK a couple years back and found it way underpowered for hot Silvers in the rivers and streams. I had to thumb the spool continually with max drag applied to get the fish out of the tight spots and into the net.
What would you recommend in the Abu low profiles from the NaCl on down to say the Black Max at the low end?
These will be used locally year round for Carp angling up to mid 20 pound fish and also on Alaska for Salmon and rockfish.
Thanks,
Steve
I didn't save my responses so hopefully steve will post as I add his questions. :) Otherwise I will flesh this out.
ps see the responses below.
Great tutorial John
A problem I've come across with the Revo Toro line of reels (50 & 60) is the thumb bar. Tolerance wise it is not too snug. Most people when pushing down on the thumb bar push down on the opposite side of where it engages the clutch. Over time what happens is it eventually wears enough that it gets very sloppy and as a result you are pushing down on it on an angle because of how loose it has become. With all the weight pressing on an angle I have seen the thumb bar break and the piece that engages the clutch plate break. It also wears quite a groove into the frame which further loosens things up. Now muskie guys are casters and these reels see a ton of work, but it is still something you should watch out for.
Did that make sense?
What I recommend is to concentrate on pressing the thumbar on the handle side so that it is pushed down squarely (notice the wear is more on one side?). I also recommend a bit of oil where the thumb bar rubs against the frame each time you use it.
Here's a NACL with grooves wearing into the frame.
Here is reply #1 to my questions.
Quote from: johndtuttle on May 26, 2015, 08:26:23 PM
Hey Steve,
Thanks for that. I have used them for over 30 years in various forms and the new larger ones are kind of an evolution from the originals I first bought when they were the high end.
Since then, they have evolved into the Revo NaCl and in the offerings from other companies reels like the Calcutta and Pluton.
Anyways, I am very favorably impressed with the entirety of the Revo line from Abu...it is a simple step wise accumulation of features as you go up in price with tight tolerances and performance for the dollar as you go.
Couple of things:
1. The "rated for saltwater" is very important part of the Revo Inshore to the Revo NaCl. Probably for your needs an NaCl would be best for overall corrosion resistance of parts and frame. Better corrosion resistance in the frame and bearings.
2. It doesn't translate in the photos very well but the NaCl 60 is still quite narrow and fits in the hand very well...but some prefer the 50 for a little less wobble when cranking and if it meets their capacity needs. Otherwise they are remarkably compact reels and only Bass guys that need very little capacity and are casting and retrieving all day want smaller and lighter than a 50.
3. If you want something even smaller, there is the Revo Inshore. Saltwater rated too.
4. Power handle will be nice for rockfish and lings.
All I will add to that is to be sure to take care of them. They are pretty "open" in concept (not a sealed reel) and require vigilance when used in the salt. The handle bearing, pinion bearing, AR clutch and bearing under the drive shaft are all problem areas that are not to be forgotten about.
best
...and the second reply is coming right up.
Hey Steve,
The key is doing a thorough pre-fishing prep like in the tutorial. Getting everything well greased including the drag washers is going to be essential.
After that it really is a case of normal care ie light freshwater rinse after fishing and regular oil for the levelwind. There is a little port for greasing the gears between major service of the reel which if the reel has been prepared well, is probably only required at the end of the season.
I will go ahead and post these PMs in the thread plus responses if you are ok with that. It really is info that many readers of the thread can benefit from.
bestThanks again for the personal assistance....now I'm gone reel shopping!
Quote from: Lunker Larry on May 27, 2015, 06:19:03 PM
Great tutorial John
A problem I've come across with the Revo Toro line of reels (50 & 60) is the thumb bar. Tolerance wise it is not too snug. Most people when pushing down on the thumb bar push down on the opposite side of where it engages the clutch. Over time what happens is it eventually wears enough that it gets very sloppy and as a result you are pushing down on it on an angle because of how loose it has become. With all the weight pressing on an angle I have seen the thumb bar break and the piece that engages the clutch plate break. It also wears quite a groove into the frame which further loosens things up. Now muskie guys are casters and these reels see a ton of work, but it is still something you should watch out for.
Did that make sense?
What I recommend is to concentrate on pressing the thumbar on the handle side so that it is pushed down squarely (notice the wear is more on one side?). I also recommend a bit of oil where the thumb bar rubs against the frame each time you use it.
Here's a NACL with grooves wearing into the frame.
Thanks for that. I will forward this to a contact at Abu Garcia and see what their engineers have to say.
One thing is that I have gained quite a bit of regard for these reels and their meticulous molding (from every maker). They really require an enormous up front cost to introduce a new model as the frames are so complex with so may parts interacting with them in so many ways in such tight tolerance.
Therefore, it is not surprising to me that we see the small problems such as these as I am sure Abu also wanted to have good sealing in this area to avoid the sorts of trouble we see in these reels as saltwater gets into the reel around the thumb button where it interacts with the frame/sideplate. Seems they made it a fraction of a millimeter too tight but that only becomes apparent in a production reel that gets very heavy use.
best, and thanks for the post.
Quote from: johndtuttle on May 31, 2015, 07:13:53 PM
Quote from: Lunker Larry on May 27, 2015, 06:19:03 PM
One thing is that I have gained quite a bit of regard for these reels and their meticulous molding (from every maker). They really require an enormous up front cost to introduce a new model as the frames are so complex with so may parts interacting with them in so many ways in such tight tolerance.
Therefore, it is not surprising to me that we see the small problems such as these as I am sure Abu also wanted to have good sealing in this area to avoid the sorts of trouble we see in these reels as saltwater gets into the reel around the thumb button where it interacts with the frame/sideplate.
If they spend so much time and $ on making these complex multi functioning frames, why as shown on your 45th pic, do they take so little effort on it to have screws go through the frame exposing the end of the screw and promoting internal entry? I wish they would spend the time you think, or know through your contacts, into providing the reel a legitimate paint job that can withstand the meer touch of another reel or my wedding ring. Maybe even a decal/dry transfer that would stay one till the warranty was up. Not just Abu, all the makers. I'm an Abu loyalist but find the Revo to be a foolish chinese venture right up there with the Eon. Maybe because its truly not an Abu but a Banax/Fox/Lew's/Phfeluger/Shakesphere/DAM that just happened to leave the same factory out the back door in a box marked Abu.
None of this is aimed towards you Mr. Tuttle, I have put the tutorials and posts you provide on many sites, to good use. But you have contacts. In this fake world of the internet so many have contacts, sponsorship, some kind of connection. Its really hard to believe almost everything that gets posted on any site anymore. The companies who put so much hard work into multi functional frames seem to spend just as much of their budget at using pretend "typical real people of the internet" to bolster their products and falsely make bad reports on their competitions products.
Quote from: 0119 on June 01, 2015, 07:50:50 PM
If they spend so much time and $ on making these complex multi functioning frames, why as shown on your 45th pic, do they take so little effort on it to have screws go through the frame exposing the end of the screw and promoting internal entry? I wish they would spend the time you think, or know through your contacts, into providing the reel a legitimate paint job that can withstand the meer touch of another reel or my wedding ring. Maybe even a decal/dry transfer that would stay one till the warranty was up. Not just Abu, all the makers. I'm an Abu loyalist but find the Revo to be a foolish chinese venture right up there with the Eon. Maybe because its truly not an Abu but a Banax/Fox/Lew's/Phfeluger/Shakesphere/DAM that just happened to leave the same factory out the back door in a box marked Abu.
None of this is aimed towards you Mr. Tuttle, I have put the tutorials and posts you provide on many sites, to good use. But you have contacts. In this fake world of the internet so many have contacts, sponsorship, some kind of connection. Its really hard to believe almost everything that gets posted on any site anymore. The companies who put so much hard work into multi functional frames seem to spend just as much of their budget at using pretend "typical real people of the internet" to bolster their products and falsely make bad reports on their competitions products.
Well, where to begin.... ;D
I think you are reading a little too much into things (at least on my end). My "having contacts" is a simple case of sending an email to Okuma, Penn, Shimano, Daiwa and Abu Garcia service reps etc who have forwarded my queries to their engineers and marketing depts. You will see the same if you visit their customer service sites etc. whenever there is an "official response".
The only thing atypical about me is that besides being a research Medical Doctor that is semi-retired is that before I went to college very late in life (first in my family to ever go to college) I worked in the Outdoor Industry for more than 12 years eventually ending up for a brief time as a buyer for The North Face and participating in an American Licensee of Montbell (the largest Japanese specialty outdoor gear maker) after being a Climber/Skier since I was a 16yo. So I know all of the generalities of how Outdoor Retailing and Manufacturing works.
Consequently, when I have a question it is nothing to me to get a contact email for the right person at one of the above companies because guys like that were desperate for a piece of my business when I was a buyer. All I am saying is I am comfortable doing it and know how because I was in a similar industry (if the widgets were slightly different). You just write an email and having done enough of these tutorials by now I generally get a response as they see the benefit of answering technical questions for their users or potential customers. It also makes me sympathetic to their problems as I have experienced them myself when being on the manufacturing side (again albeit with different widgets).
So, I think you are a little over-blowing my "connections" if perhaps you don't realize my background that lets me be a little bolder than others. ie for the Daiwa Lexa tutorial I placed a call to the Daiwa National Sales manager to see if they had any input for fun. He hasn't returned my call :D. But back in the day, I didn't return their calls either unless it suited me. 8)
Anyways, about the frame issue...I consider it superior and I believe the Manf. do too when both making the reel and keeping it alive over time. Being open at the end allows for a less troublesome tapping of the threads and for molding. As far as we are concerned it is nice because it allows us to "dip" our threads in grease and tighten as much as we dare without cracking the frame...if it was a blind pocket then others have destroyed their frames by torquing a screw against in-compressible grease through hydraulic force similar to how a hydraulic jack works. I think corrosion on the back ends is a mixed bag balanced by the above considerations.
Take a look at my other tutorials. I'm pretty sure I give equal marks to Daiwa and Shimano in this class of reel and as it happens, I have an Okuma Komodo open next to me which will be my next tutorial. Take a look at my Lexa 400 tutorial on this site for your reference as well.
It sure would be weird to be working for them all ;D.
best regards
ps you'll see the Daiwa Lexa tutorial on stripersonline soon as well. typically I post here first because Alan is such an indulgent guy and it allows me to sort through and edit things a bit before wider dissemination.
I tried to emphasize that I didn't mean it as a dig towards you. Like I said I use you tutorials often and find them invaluable. I also enjoy reading your posts on other boards as well as this one. My comment was more meant as a statement of disillusionment about so many peoples comments/posts in the internet and how it is getting more and more difficult to place weight on what anybody says.
But I still don't see the quality that you see in the product. I've owned half a dozen various Revo's, never kept them more than a fishing trip before reverting back to older reels. If I can't count on the quality of the finish of a reel that is kept in a neoprene reel cover when it isn't in my hands in use, how can I depend on its quality when its internals(screws) stick out of holes in the frame, its threading sucking in saltwater.
Quote from: 0119 on June 01, 2015, 10:18:32 PM
I tried to emphasize that I didn't mean it as a dig towards you. Like I said I use you tutorials often and find them invaluable. I also enjoy reading your posts on other boards as well as this one. My comment was more meant as a statement of disillusionment about so many peoples comments/posts in the internet and how it is getting more and more difficult to place weight on what anybody says.
But I still don't see the quality that you see in the product. I've owned half a dozen various Revo's, never kept them more than a fishing trip before reverting back to older reels. If I can't count on the quality of the finish of a reel that is kept in a neoprene reel cover when it isn't in my hands in use, how can I depend on its quality when its internals(screws) stick out of holes in the frame, its threading sucking in saltwater.
I dunno, how can you? You just got to balance the good with the bad. We talk all the time around here about the perfect reel. We can pick many of them out of the scrap heaps of the past (lol ebay) and be amazed at how good they are... and they have all been discontinued due to competition that beat them.
I like the screw holes to have open ends. It works perfectly for me. Every single reel in the world has trouble with corrosion around their screws, it is just a question of degree. This way of doing it allows me to aggressively grease the screws. If it was "closed" I wouldn't get as much grease on the screw as I would like. ;)
I am a glass half full kinda guy. We could go over every single part with a microscope and figure out an ideal way to make it...and I promise you for what the reel would cost and weigh it would never, ever sell, unless you are interested in $1400 Daiwa Saltigas....and people complain about some of those engineering choices too...
We had this discussion on another thread talking about a plastic yoke:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=14309.0
That got a little off topic :D....but it turns out Keta who works on many, many Abu's finds that part extremely reliable...
What I am getting at is perception is reality. The idea is to make as many purchasers as happy as possible by meeting their expectations, but you cannot try and make everyone happy or the product will fail. When you have low expectations even a modest $25 Daiwa Sweepfire is a miracle of tool and die....I for one expect every single reel I own to get boat rash on boats.... :)...but if this reel does not meet your expectations...dunno where to send you having seen plenty of the insides of everything else in this class of reel...There is very little to differentiate between Abu, Daiwa, Okuma or Shimano large saltwater baitcasting reels. Every single one of them has some frame screws with open back ends.
If you know of a better saltwater low profile baitcaster I am all ears. :)
John, you and Keta simply saying that the plastic yoke is good, doesn't necessarily mean it is good. As far as I am concerned, it is a ridiculous design. If you believe that a pinion having cut teeth on top and bottom, rotating on a plastic yoke is a good idea, good for you. I prefer to always have a metal yoke on my reels.
I said I have only one, but I've worked on a few myself...you see one, you've seen them all.
I believe all yokes should be metal, not plastic. This is just my opinion.
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 01, 2015, 11:04:45 PM
John, you and Keta simply saying that the plastic yoke is good, doesn't necessarily mean it is good. As far as I am concerned, it is a ridiculous design. If you believe that a pinion having cut teeth on top and bottom, rotating on a plastic yoke is a good idea, good for you. I prefer to always have a metal yoke on my reels.
I said I have only one, but I've worked on a few myself...you see one, you've seen them all.
I believe all yokes should be metal, not plastic. This is just my opinion.
Sal
No worries, Sal. I am sure if we get a chance to share a glass of wine some time it will all become more clear precisely what our perspective is...
In Surgery we have a saying (probably borrowed) that is "Don't let perfection be the enemy of the good." That is, a Surgeon that is obsessively meticulous can never finish the operation in time and the patient dies on the table.
In this context it means that if every reel has to be perfection then very, very few people get to go fishing, because they cannot afford perfection or reel companies spend too much time chasing their tails and never bring a product to market. Heck, the perfect reel would use many titanium parts and space age carbon composites....And would be built like a Mars Rover...
Where do we stop when the goal is perfection? Well, everyone has their point that is good enough to catch a fish.
I have seen too many Mexican kids fishing with beer can or soda bottle spinners to worry about how we build our toys...I am just happy to see anyone fishing and am happy to see a product that can broaden the appeal of our sport because the cost of getting involved is not prohibitive.
In that sense I am more about promoting fishing, getting people out there and understanding and caring for their tools so they don't have fishing trips ruined by reel failures...than I am about perfection.
Quote from: johndtuttle on June 01, 2015, 10:33:50 PM
Quote from: 0119 on June 01, 2015, 10:18:32 PM
If you know of a better saltwater low profile baitcaster I am all ears. :)
No, thats just it, I don't think any low profile is good at all in salt. Sure folks do it, sure like you said a soda bottle will do it. But the low profile in salt is just a marketing ploy. They've made today's angler in his visor, shiny nylon shirt and color coordinated truck, trailer and boat think its the end all using a bass reel to winch fish in on cord they call superline.....
John, again, we are talking about a plastic yoke. i have lots of respect for you and Keta, I simply don't agree on this one.
You've mentioned that you were a plumber, i could give you hundreds of examples on why something that costs way more becomes way cheaper on the long run.
I started building homes in the early 70's, around that time most town homes still had brick veneer. Those still look the same today and
if they have a nice front door, you will have a hard time breaking in.
The newer homes are already falling apart, I've had to fix a few already. All you need on those to get in is a utility knife. Cut the " Plastic" siding and you're in ;D
All is good buddy.
Sal
Sorry for pulling away from the nice tutorial...
Ah, and there we get to it, 0119....
No, my friend, the low profile reel is not yet perfected to be sure, but it does things that no other conventional reels their size and weight can do.
1. Lighter weight because you can reduce the spool size for just the right amount.
2. Greater cranking power for lipped plugs or bigger fish.
3. Cast braid well and repeatedly for a greater range of lure weights.
4. Greater drag for their size (because you have the larger main gear to put a drag stack in).
These are not small issues. They are the central issues if we are to move reel designs forward.
As lines become smaller yet stronger this geometry will only continue to get better. This isn't some fad, but the best way to take advantage of Braided lines to have the smallest most capable reels.
There certainly are plenty of guys still using Newell 220s for the task, never met one guy that prefers his older style conventional for casting to Calico Bass all day. Now, like with this reel they are growing into schoolie Tuna and Yellowtail capable.
best
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 02, 2015, 12:16:26 AM
John, again, we are talking about a plastic yoke. i have lots of respect for you and Keta, I simply don't agree on this one.
You've mentioned that you were a plumber, i could give you hundreds of examples on why something that costs way more becomes way cheaper on the long run.
I started building homes in the early 70's, around that time most town homes still had brick veneer. Those still look the same today and
if they have a nice front door, you will have a hard time breaking in.
The newer homes are already falling apart, I've had to fix a few already. All you need on those to get in is a utility knife. Cut the " Plastic" siding and you're in ;D
All is good buddy.
Sal
Sorry for pulling away from the nice tutorial...
No worries, Sal. Its all about understanding these designs...what they do and don't do well...
During Medical School I volunteered with Habitat for Humanity an aid group that rebuilds or builds new houses in blighted neighborhoods for families that have no home of their own...
So, if you had a limited budget would you build 2 homes for 2 families, or would you build one for one family and leave the other living out of a shelter where they sleep on open cots with 30 other people?
Just sayin'....you can't let Perfection be the Enemy of the Good.
(we can set aside whether plastic in this case may actually be better in the Revo NaCL because these thumb button clutches use a different way of disengaging the pinion as compared to other designs. They don't slide an eccentric plate the same way a Penn does...they use rotation of their Clutch Cam so the yoke is not as slim as a yoke on a Senator etc. If you look at images of the yoke in the tutorial you will see they are quite thick and might be prohibitively heavy if metal.)
Quote from: Reel 224 on June 02, 2015, 01:51:08 AM
Quote from: johndtuttle on June 02, 2015, 01:26:39 AM
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 02, 2015, 12:16:26 AM
John, again, we are talking about a plastic yoke. i have lots of respect for you and Keta, I simply don't agree on this one.
You've mentioned that you were a plumber, i could give you hundreds of examples on why something that costs way more becomes way cheaper on the long run.
I started building homes in the early 70's, around that time most town homes still had brick veneer. Those still look the same today and
if they have a nice front door, you will have a hard time breaking in.
The newer homes are already falling apart, I've had to fix a few already. All you need on those to get in is a utility knife. Cut the " Plastic" siding and you're in ;D
All is good buddy.
Sal
Sorry for pulling away from the nice tutorial...
No worries, Sal. Its all about understanding these designs...what they do and don't do well...
During Medical School I volunteered with Habitat for Humanity an aid group that rebuilds or builds new houses in blighted neighborhoods for families that have no home of their own...
So, if you had a limited budget would you build 2 homes for 2 families, or would you build one for one family and leave the other living out of a shelter where they sleep on open cots with 30 other people?
Just sayin'....you can't let Perfection be the Enemy of the Good.
(we can set aside whether plastic in this case may actually be better in the Revo NaCL because these thumb button clutches use a different way of disengaging the pinion as compared to other designs. They don't slide an eccentric plate the same way a Penn does...they use rotation of their Clutch Cam so the yoke is not as slim as a yoke on a Senator etc. If you look at images of the yoke in the tutorial you will see they are quite thick and might be prohibitively heavy if metal.)
"You can't let perfection be the enemy of the good" That saying can apply very well in surgery MAYBE, but I don't think it applies in all cases. One example; Build a bridge that is fair and you and the family are driving over it, suddenly it collapses because someone felt that it wasn't necessary to go the extra mile to reinforce something because time wouldn't allow for a better job or they took the lowest bid and cut corners. I don't like that idea. Sorry for butting in here. But I could say a lot more and probably get myself in trouble. From here on my pledge is (To talk about Reels only)!!
:D
Well, in this case the better analogy might be a bridge built to a totally acceptable building code, rated to handle certain loads....versus one over-engineered to last a 1000 years like a Roman Aqueduct?
We don't build to last 1000+ years like the Romans or Egyptians did...somehow our society has prioritized many public works rather than simply one great pyramid...with building codes fitting some algorithm of safety and durability that makes economic sense... ;).
Don't get me wrong! This is not a celebration of junk, it is an expectation that Abu, Daiwa, Shimano, et al know their business better than we probably do and that these yokes do work. They are a different design than a Penn Yoke (much thicker) and that is integral to their function.
[/quote]No worries, Sal. I am sure if we get a chance to share a glass of wine some time it will all become more clear precisely what our perspective is...[/quote]
You better make it a glass each ;D
My son has a couple of NaCl50's. One had poor drag and was jerky out of the box. I greased the drags and it was fine. Both have had issues of not going back in gear when you turn the handle. I've never had this with any other thumb release, well, maybe a Lexa. They all have their quirks.
I fished this reel hard last year. In fact, I fished 2 of them hard. I like the reel but it is just not a reliable piece of equipment. Over the year, I have had several issues with both reels.
Kick level failure is real. At some point the reel will not engage. This is in part due to the power handle not being a balanced design, which can cause the reel to engage. I've learned to compensate for this by having the handle in forward position before a hard cast, which is a bit of hassle.
The 22 lb drag claim is dubious. I don't think this reel can put out a usable drag at 12 lb, let alone 22 lb.
Buttoning down on the star to get high drag will result in 2 things. The main gear shaft will strip. Or the thread on the star will strip. Either way, one of them will fail.
I really wish this reel is more reliable as I love its performance out of the box. But as it stands, it is not a reel that will stand under pressure, or at least worthy of a reel claimed to be putting out 22 lb of drag. I don't know if Lexa or Komodo will be any better.
Quote from: tugger on July 17, 2015, 08:19:59 AM
I fished this reel hard last year. In fact, I fished 2 of them hard. I like the reel but it is just not a reliable piece of equipment. Over the year, I have had several issues with both reels.
Kick level failure is real. At some point the reel will not engage. This is in part due to the power handle not being a balanced design, which can cause the reel to engage. I've learned to compensate for this by having the handle in forward position before a hard cast, which is a bit of hassle.
The 22 lb drag claim is dubious. I don't think this reel can put out a usable drag at 12 lb, let alone 22 lb.
Buttoning down on the star to get high drag will result in 2 things. The main gear shaft will strip. Or the thread on the star will strip. Either way, one of them will fail.
I really wish this reel is more reliable as I love its performance out of the box. But as it stands, it is not a reel that will stand under pressure, or at least worthy of a reel claimed to be putting out 22 lb of drag. I don't know if Lexa or Komodo will be any better.
I have been down this road with any number of guys and all kinds of different reels.
1. Drag Numbers claimed by all manufacturers are not utterly bunk, but nearly so. What this means is that how you test the drag (full or nearly empty spool) and how usable that number is (how stiff the reel is and at what point do you loose smooth drag) virtually always has little to do with guys fishing the reel.
The problem is that they all are trapped by each other by their only human response to uneducated consumers with unrealistic expectations fed by their competition.
2. However, it doesn't matter. These reels weigh only 11oz and hold about 250 yards of 50lb braid. You can only fish 50lb with about 12lbs of drag and reliably have your connections hold up. As well, 300+ yards of 30# so they are perfectly capable of handling the line you commonly would put on there.
This is also realistic give the type and capability of a rod you would pair it with. I promise you, you cannot fish 20lbs of drag with an 8' Bass stick and have things turn out well. :)
3. If you tighten down the star so much you are stripping it or the stud maybe the reel was trying to tell you something before you got out the vise grips to hammer down the drag? ;). Anything more than hand pressure is probably too much for any reel of any kind made (that is how they are designed). If you cannot turn the handle with your own strength or the star or lever drag arm then the reel is trying to tell you that you are going to break it.
4. The stickiness of the kick lever is something that is common to the design that can be dealt with by simple occasional cleaning and lube. It is something that Abu is addressing in the next gen Revo Toro Beast what has a more easily activated thumb clutch. But I have corresponded with guys or worked on Curados, Lexas and Komodos too having trouble with their thumb button/reel going in or out of gear. It always comes down to maintenance. These reels require more, not less than traditional designs.
Back in the day people bought Penn International 30 or 50 size reels to fish 20lbs of drag (4-5lb reels). These small baitcasters weigh 11oz. There is a disconnect between reality and expectations there that the manufacturers are only too happy to feed or be left behind by their competition. This is a criticism of both parties to the deal ;).
1. The Komodo 364 with all stainless internals is likely the toughest (relatively). It is limited by small capacity.
2. The Lexa 400 will make the most drag, simply because it has the biggest drag washers behind the biggest main gear. Known maintenance worries covered in my service tutorial (that can be handled with regular maintenance).
3. The Revo is the most refined feeling in the hand and on the crank, imo. Needs drag grease.
4. The Curado has it's fans as well. Seems to have more corrosion problems than others if not maintained.
If I were going offshore for light tackle tuna then my first choice would be a Lexa 400 for capacity and drag to be on the safe side. If I were going for paddy YT, Calicos, Barries and Bonita then I would take the Abu Garcia for a more refined experience. Komodo or Curado are proven capable as well given they are only 11oz reels :D.
I would fish any of them for schoolie tuna if I wanted the challenge throwing poppers. Fact of the matter though, spinners are more capable for popping. They cast better and make far more smooth drag.
If I needed a real deal 20lbs of drag from a conventional reel I would be fishing a Penn Torque 25N LD 2-speed or Okuma Makaira 8II. There is no free lunch. ;D
Final Thought:
I am amazed at what these reels are capable of for 11oz. Let that sink in: 11oz. It is ultra light tackle. I would focus on what they can do, not what they can't.
If you beat one up faster than you would like then you might want a reel about double that size, weight and cost (Tranx, Revo Toro Beast or Lexa HD).
Quote from: tugger on July 17, 2015, 08:19:59 AM
I fished this reel hard last year. In fact, I fished 2 of them hard. I like the reel but it is just not a reliable piece of equipment. Over the year, I have had several issues with both reels.
I
Kick level failure is real. At some point the reel will not engage. This is in part due to the power handle not being a balanced design, which can cause the reel to engage. I've learned to compensate for this by having the handle in forward position before a hard cast, which is a bit of hassle.
The 22 lb drag claim is dubious. I don't think this reel can put out a usable drag at 12 lb, let alone 22 lb.
Buttoning down on the star to get high drag will result in 2 things. The main gear shaft will strip. Or the thread on the star will strip. Either way, one of them will fail.
I really wish this reel is more reliable as I love its performance out of the box. But as it stands, it is not a reel that will stand under pressure, or at least worthy of a reel claimed to be putting out 22 lb of drag. I don't know if Lexa or Komodo will be any better.
Kick lever issue has been addressed. The spring has an upgrade (190819 vice 1290695) and ABU hardened the end of the kick lever ( don't have the number on hand )
I posted a nice fish in the Lexa 400 tutorial so it seems fair to give the Revo it's due also :D
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/medium_9308_15_07_17_2_04_01_191891067.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19190)
Nice fish! John, is that you?
Quote from: Alto Mare on July 28, 2015, 07:07:02 PM
Nice fish! John, is that you?
Yes! If I was 20 years younger, was better looking and actually got to go fishing! >:(
So, no....not me :(
;D
Hi John, gentlemen,
I am very amused by the Service Tutorial of the NaCl 60HS. I own a bit smaller model, the NaCL 51HS but I assume that the mechanics of both reels are basically the same. Unfortunately a part of the thumb bar where it slides over the frame bar has broken off (plastic!! >:(). It is still properly functioning but I intend to order for a replacement bar for cosmetical reasons and to fullfill the repair myself.
Do I have to break the whole reel down for the replacement or is there an easier way?
All hints and instructions will make me feel happy and grateful.
Joost
The Netherlands
Quote from: joostmoree on December 21, 2015, 04:10:48 PM
Hi John, gentlemen,
I am very amused by the Service Tutorial of the NaCl 60HS. I own a bit smaller model, the NaCL 51HS but I assume that the mechanics of both reels are basically the same. Unfortunately a part of the thumb bar where it slides over the frame bar has broken off (plastic!! >:(). It is still properly functioning but I intend to order for a replacement bar for cosmetical reasons and to fullfill the repair myself.
Do I have to break the whole reel down for the replacement or is there an easier way?
All hints and instructions will make me feel happy and grateful.
Joost
The Netherlands
Greetings Joost,
You'll have to take of the left side plate and remove the spool to access a screw on the back. It should then lift off easily.
regards
Thank you for your prompt reply. It seems as though the job is much easier than I could imagine. I ordered for the substitute part right away.
By the way, let alone all endorsements and hallelujahs re the baitcaster - it is a marvellous machine to cast with - I have to confess that it has some deficiencies.
Lots of parts are made of plastic. And thus vulnerable. Shortly after obtaining the reel the front cover above the line distributor broke off. Apparantly caused by the awkward opening of the right side plate (I have a left hand model). This was repaired by Abu Garcia. But the object has a very flimsy thin mounting possibility which already was ruptured at the reception after the repair caused by the tapered head of the mini bolt. So I glued the thing with Cyanoacrilate. A bit poor show.
And now a similar problem has arisen with the plastic thumb bar. Cheapo.
I own among others solid cold forged aluminium hardware like the Shimano Calcutta 401d. This type of hardware is not bothered by breaking parts. I have next to the Calcutta a Shimano Chronarch Ci4 with lots of synthetics but this is obviously more alike carbon. Tougher than steel. No failures at all.
Kind regards,
Joost
Quote from: joostmoree on December 21, 2015, 08:41:35 PM
Thank you for your prompt reply. It seems as though the job is much easier than I could imagine. I ordered for the substitute part right away.
By the way, let alone all endorsements and hallelujahs re the baitcaster - it is a marvellous machine to cast with - I have to confess that it has some deficiencies.
Lots of parts are made of plastic. And thus vulnerable. Shortly after obtaining the reel the front cover above the line distributor broke off. Apparantly caused by the awkward opening of the right side plate (I have a left hand model). This was repaired by Abu Garcia. But the object has a very flimsy thin mounting possibility which already was ruptured at the reception after the repair caused by the tapered head of the mini bolt. So I glued the thing with Cyanoacrilate. A bit poor show.
And now a similar problem has arisen with the plastic thumb bar. Cheapo.
I own among others solid cold forged aluminium hardware like the Shimano Calcutta 401d. This type of hardware is not bothered by breaking parts. I have next to the Calcutta a Shimano Chronarch Ci4 with lots of synthetics but this is obviously more alike carbon. Tougher than steel. No failures at all.
Kind regards,
Joost
Not to worry Joost!
The older NaCl has been discontinued and replaced with the Revo Toro S/Beast which has improved numerous areas.
Needless to say the round baitcasters with more metal are beautiful reels at a increased weight and somewhat larger price penalty.
Its a constant balancing act to make the reels as light as possible for all day casting, reasonable enough in price to reach many anglers and still be tough enough for hard use...I don't envy the Engineers the difficulty of that task.
Overall the reels have some impressive catches to their credit in saltwater and with proper care most really enjoy the reels.
regards
Hi John,
I owe you a confession. Actually I hope every late night that things go wrong in order to give an opening to repair them the very next early morning.
Can you imagine a more important moment your wife serving foie gras whilst sitting at your desk watching a completely demolished reel heading for Christmas?
;)
Quote from: johndtuttle on September 17, 2014, 04:02:35 AM
Abu Garcia Revo Toro NaCl 60HS Service Tutorial
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/haugusnord/P1020499_zpsf1284365.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/haugusnord/media/P1020499_zpsf1284365.jpg.html)
The sideplate material appears to be a high impact resistant synthetic composite. I will let the gentle reader translate that :). Pretty much the industry standard for this class of reel.
Hi All
John, My 50HS is behaving poorly.
When the clicker is set, it will click but if I reel in line a little, the clicker goes into a 3/4 click mode where the click is muted and almost non-existent. This began (or I noticed it) after I fished through a massive rain storm recently and I figured that some debris or emulsion was preventing the click claw from mating against the clicker but on closer inspection it seems that the governor guide that is on the left hand plate has the corners slightly chipped off/rounded compared against the photo here.
The reel was second hand so I don't know how it was treated previously but since I have owned it, it hasn't been cast or endured screaming runs with the clicker on. I didn't see any debris from the "broken" plastic when I took the reel apart so I'm not quite sure if my diagnosis is correct
I assume this governor on the side plate holds the click claw true - Does that seem likely to you or am I missing something obvious here?
I have removed the click half ring and cleaned and re-seated that but the issue persists.
As the symptoms began after the rain and not from mechanical abuse I am not convinced that I'm right just yet. Any insight would be appreciated
Quote from: jaypeegee on December 28, 2015, 11:51:18 PM
Hi All
John, My 50HS is behaving poorly.
When the clicker is set, it will click but if I reel in line a little, the clicker goes into a 3/4 click mode where the click is muted and almost non-existent. This began (or I noticed it) after I fished through a massive rain storm recently and I figured that some debris or emulsion was preventing the click claw from mating against the clicker but on closer inspection it seems that the governor guide that is on the left hand plate has the corners slightly chipped off/rounded compared against the photo here.
The reel was second hand so I don't know how it was treated previously but since I have owned it, it hasn't been cast or endured screaming runs with the clicker on. I didn't see any debris from the "broken" plastic when I took the reel apart so I'm not quite sure if my diagnosis is correct
I assume this governor on the side plate holds the click claw true - Does that seem likely to you or am I missing something obvious here?
I have removed the click half ring and cleaned and re-seated that but the issue persists.
As the symptoms began after the rain and not from mechanical abuse I am not convinced that I'm right just yet. Any insight would be appreciated
Trouble shooting clickers of this type in any reel is a nightmare as they are finely sensitive to tolerance issues. The Click Springs wear or fatigue, the Click Claws wear or get bent, the side plates don't fit perfectly anymore or the hole gets worn etc etc.
Unfortunately it is doubtful it is something obvious. :(
If you can post some photos of what you have found we can try and do our best to figure it out for you. ATM I remain stumped as to the intermittent nature of the problem.
best
Hmm ....i have no excuse. I dont drink heavily. I dont do drugs. I had at least 4 hours sleep.
I went back and looked. No chipped side plate. Reassembled it. Click click click.
Hmm. Im gonna thrash it tomorrow night and see if it behaves.
Maybe i need to sleep more... ???
Thinking further I decided to put the click spring back in what was an upside down position as it looked intuitively more correct.
I suspect that the ring had been upside down all this time and I have righted it.
Not sure how to describe the end of it but it has two 'ears' that look to be designed to stop the click claw from popping out and over the spring.
Anyway, It seems to be better. Will load the car this afternoon and see for sure.
Quote from: jaypeegee on December 29, 2015, 07:40:06 PM
Thinking further I decided to put the click spring back in what was an upside down position as it looked intuitively more correct.
I suspect that the ring had been upside down all this time and I have righted it.
Not sure how to describe the end of it but it has two 'ears' that look to be designed to stop the click claw from popping out and over the spring.
Anyway, It seems to be better. Will load the car this afternoon and see for sure.
Keep us posted! Something as simple as that orientation of the Click Claw can cause your trouble.
I did a full service on one of these reels today and I tell you it takes a while. The reel had been abused and fished hard. It's a very impressive reel.
When I was finished and no slack in the spool adjustment it spun forever and the level wind made it 17 times from side to side.
I too think the parts should be beefed up a bit to handle the larger fish and day to day abuse.
Quote from: johndtuttle on December 29, 2015, 07:50:44 PM
Quote from: jaypeegee on December 29, 2015, 07:40:06 PM
Thinking further I decided to put the click spring back in what was an upside down position as it looked intuitively more correct.
I suspect that the ring had been upside down all this time and I have righted it.
Not sure how to describe the end of it but it has two 'ears' that look to be designed to stop the click claw from popping out and over the spring.
Anyway, It seems to be better. Will load the car this afternoon and see for sure.
Keep us posted! Something as simple as that orientation of the Click Claw can cause your trouble.
3Km offshore on the Kayak yesterday and half of the thumb bar fell off the reel and floated away
I'm guessing that this had had a hairline crack fracture and wonder if it was causing the above issue?
I will be off to ereplacement to get parts
Thank goodness for having a backup reel on-board.
Quote from: jaypeegee on April 03, 2016, 08:59:40 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on December 29, 2015, 07:50:44 PM
Quote from: jaypeegee on December 29, 2015, 07:40:06 PM
Thinking further I decided to put the click spring back in what was an upside down position as it looked intuitively more correct.
I suspect that the ring had been upside down all this time and I have righted it.
Not sure how to describe the end of it but it has two 'ears' that look to be designed to stop the click claw from popping out and over the spring.
Anyway, It seems to be better. Will load the car this afternoon and see for sure.
Keep us posted! Something as simple as that orientation of the Click Claw can cause your trouble.
3Km offshore on the Kayak yesterday and half of the thumb bar fell off the reel and floated away
I'm guessing that this had had a hairline crack fracture and wonder if it was causing the above issue?
I will be off to ereplacement to get parts
Thank goodness for having a backup reel on-board.
Sorry to hear about your trouble. All I can really add is that the reel has been discontinued and the new design is dramatically improved. You can see details in the post:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=15044.0
Certainly I would expect Abu Garcia to help you under warranty.
best
Good luck getting ABU to even talk to you about thumb bar issues on the winch or NACL. They won't even acknowledge questions on it.
It was a poor design and caused them nothing but grief. In mu muskies club, they've replaced dozens of reels and repaired many more.
The thumb bar is too wide and the tolerances are poor. Add in it is all plastic makes for a disaster waiting to happen.
What I tell everyone is to make sure you are pressing the thumb bar on the handle side of the reel. This makes for a more aligned and straight down pressure. If you don't, the thumb bar, due to being a bit wobbly starts to wear unevenly to the point it either binds or breaks the thumb bar or the clutch bar. It also wears a groove into the frame of the reel causing a worse fit.
So the best bet is to push down as close to the handle side as you can and put a drop of oil where it rubs on the frame before you go out.
Here's a couple pictures.
Quote from: johndtuttle on April 03, 2016, 11:11:39 PM
Quote from: jaypeegee on April 03, 2016, 08:59:40 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on December 29, 2015, 07:50:44 PM
Quote from: jaypeegee on December 29, 2015, 07:40:06 PM
Thinking further I decided to put the click spring back in what was an upside down position as it looked intuitively more correct.
I suspect that the ring had been upside down all this time and I have righted it.
Not sure how to describe the end of it but it has two 'ears' that look to be designed to stop the click claw from popping out and over the spring.
Anyway, It seems to be better. Will load the car this afternoon and see for sure.
Keep us posted! Something as simple as that orientation of the Click Claw can cause your trouble.
3Km offshore on the Kayak yesterday and half of the thumb bar fell off the reel and floated away
I'm guessing that this had had a hairline crack fracture and wonder if it was causing the above issue?
I will be off to ereplacement to get parts
Thank goodness for having a backup reel on-board.
Sorry to hear about your trouble. All I can really add is that the reel has been discontinued and the new design is dramatically improved. You can see details in the post:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=15044.0
Certainly I would expect Abu Garcia to help you under warranty.
best
Hi JT
Not trouble at all. It was a relief in a way as I still had issues with the clicker behaving funny if left on when I retrieved line.
The reel was purchased second hand so warranty is of no concern, I figured I'd post in case
A: my theory sounded waaay off base I might get feedback on it
and
B: if it proved to be the cause of my issues then it might prove helpful to someone else in the future
CHeers
Welp...
Pre season servicing shows that the clicker is still problematic
Feels like the claw is getting stuck under the plastic half-ring when the clicker is engaged
I wonder if the claw/E-ring/Clicker knob should be tight when assembled? That is should the claw move freely/loosely side to side or should it be "stiff" in the on position?
Anyone?
Not sure if I have fixed it but I noticed that the e-ring was loose and allowed some play when assembled on the click claw. I squished it a little and it seems to not slide under the spring. It slid under if the reel was wound backwards so talking up slack in the line would be the action causing it in the field. I will add a couple of extra e-rings to my order and compare when they arrive.
Quote from: johndtuttle on July 28, 2015, 07:45:01 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on July 28, 2015, 07:07:02 PM
Nice fish! John, is that you?
Yes! If I was 20 years younger, was better looking and actually got to go fishing! >:(
LOL that was a good one John, jajaja
I just picked up a Revo 3 Winch, my first low profile Abu - I collect 2601-7501 Ambu's so I'm not sure about the parts on this reel. I see they sell (HedgeHog studios) aftermarket offset thumb bars, wondering if this would help guard against the wear that is seen on the previous generation of Revos. Was going to also purchase some decent bearings but didn't want to put too much money into this reel since I only paid $90 for it. Any of you guys upgrade these models? I see they are very popular in Japan.
Quote from: Fishit 2 on April 28, 2017, 08:19:45 PM
Any of you guys upgrade these models? I see they are very popular in Japan.
Japan's techno male society always gravitates towards new and often replaced reels. Hench the huge used market in japanese tackleshops. I've owned 1 Premier, 1 STX, 2 SX, 1 S and for a very short time an Inshore. I never considered upgrading them since they all gave me trouble of some sort within a week of getting them. My low profile baitcasting needs have gone back to and will stay with the 2500 and 4500 sizes. Maybe the offset thumb bar is a solution to the wear problem, but all my Revo's experienced larger problems long before the thumb bar got much use. There are enough bling cosmetic bits at japantackle and hedgehog to make a Revo into a completely unrecognizable reel.
Thank You for the great and complete service tutorial on this, John!
I have done a few pre-fish services on new ones — but this afternoon needed to do a complete on a "60" size NaCl that had been fished in the salt — and your step by step, as well as personal observations about greasing, drags, and bearings were spot on.
This is the first one I have taken all of the way down. There were a couple of places where even an experienced guy might have made a mistake that would break something expensive. But no worries with your excellent tutorial.
Best,
Fred