I was wondering if it is possible to use a sleeve in place of the 2 tiny c-clips for the metaloid series. I am not sure if the andros are sleeve or not.
The Andros uses c-clips as well.
A bearing sleeve will work in any lever drag reel. It needs to be on the money or 1-2 thousanths over. It
Quote from: alantani on December 13, 2014, 08:25:34 PM
A bearing sleeve will work in any lever drag reel. It needs to be on the money or 1-2 thousanths over. It
i was thinking a sleeve would give you a better option to set up the drag the way you like. currently with the c clips you cannot alter the belleviles too much or the spool play in free spool is unacceptable. it would also allow the addition of a thrust bearing assembly. just thinking aloud..
i would fish these reels with 10-12 pounds of drag to stay in a comfortable range. if you need much more drag than that, it might be best to step up to a heavier reel.
Quote from: alantani on December 13, 2014, 11:31:43 PM
i would fish these reels with 10-12 pounds of drag to stay in a comfortable range. if you need much more drag than that, it might be best to step up to a heavier reel.
I think the frame as well as the side plate of the metaloid are much better constructed than the Penn fathom LD2 and yet the Fathom is rated to handle much higher drag pressure. I think the c-clips really force the reel to be in a certain operating range. Furthermore, once you serviced the spool and remove the left side bearing c-clip, it is almost impossible to put the c-clip back on with the Bellevile washers in the ()() orientation unless you have some way to compress the Bellevile washers down. Any other orientation will result in some play when the reel is in free spool. By eliminating the 2 c-clips, and using a spool sleeve of correct length, the issue could pontentially resolve itself. Also this will allow you to use a similar thrust bearing assembly like in the Fathom LD2 series to achieve less handle binding. Just a thought.
I bought a K&S brass rod from Ace Hardware in the 7.14 mm size. The length between the clips are 21.8 mm. I use a pipe/tube cutter and cut to 22.5 mm or so and then reamed out the cut side as it does get slight compressed. I used a flat fine file and hit it a few times, always checking to make sure it is still fairly square. Took out the 2 tiny clips, installed and the reel feel much better. The best thing is now I was able to install the bellevile washers in the correct configuration of ()(). The next step is to see if I can shorten the sleeve by 3 mm, install a thrust bearing assembly and reduce the Bellevile washers to () configuration. The thrust bearing assembly is 4.5 mm thick. The 4 Bellevile washers are roughly about 3.5 mm in the ()() configuration.
picture of sleeve on shaft. i thought i had a picture of everything laid out but i guess the camera didn't capture that picture.
Nice Carpet ;)
haha..it is actually an old towel..Hopefully the thrust bearing will come in soon so that I can test the thrust bearing assembly.
Quote from: maxpowers on December 17, 2014, 02:55:15 AM
picture of sleeve on shaft. i thought i had a picture of everything laid out but i guess the camera didn't capture that picture.
Sorry you have to be the guinea pig.
So where are you procuring the thrust bearing from? Why is the metal part to the right of the rightmost bearing look beat up? Where will the thrust bearing go once you have it?
I have 2 M-5IIs I will need to improve.
TIA
hi bob,
vxb has the thrust bearing assembly in the following dimensio n of 6mm x 12mm x 4.5mm. as for the right most section of the shaft, it is where the compression spring sit. I don't think it affected the freespool. I actuallu order some chrome steel thrust bearing assembly since it was cheaper and i wasn't sure it would work. once i confirmed that the thrust bearing can be installed then i will purchase the stainless steel version on the bearing assembly.
Quote from: maxpowers on December 17, 2014, 05:22:25 PM
hi bob,
vxb has the thrust bearing assembly in the following dimensio n of 6mm x 12mm x 4.5mm. as for the right most section of the shaft, it is where the compression spring sit. I don't think it affected the freespool. I actuallu order some chrome steel thrust bearing assembly since it was cheaper and i wasn't sure it would work. once i confirmed that the thrust bearing can be installed then i will purchase the stainless steel version on the bearing assembly.
Hey Max,
Actually, the SS bearing is more expensive than chrome steel. You get 1 SS vs. 2 chrome steel. But I would still opt for the SS. Here's a link to the SS TB http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Thrust/Kit12595.
Thanks again.
Yes the SS are twice as costly hence I wanted to see if installing the bearing assembly is even feasible before spending on the SS bearings. I actually found on Ebay 5 sets of the chrome bearings for $5. In the meantime I plan on fishing the metaloid some more with the brass sleeve to see how it holds up. At least it solve the problem of allowing you to back off the drag at moderate setting (5-8 lbs) and still have some drag available.
Thanks,
This is great stuff! If the thrust bearing works it will make the Metaloid bullit proof. Now if it works with the new Andros "A" series WOW dual force drag with the thrust bearing, like a light weight Makaira. Starting to make me salivate!!!
hi maxpowers
we are all watching closely
i think success is on the way
good stuff
Of all the spool sleeves I have seen on this site not one is stainless steel. Is there a reason that the sleeves are always made of brass? Are there certain advantages to using brass as opposed to stainless, or is it just to save on the cost?
I don't think the thrust bearing assembly will work as I had planned because there is just not enough depth in the left side of the spool. If I want to make it work I will have to remove most if not all of the belleville washers. There is a possible solution which is to insert a cut to size brass sleeve of 1 mm thickness with an ID of 13 mm into the left size spool bearing receptacle and use the same size bearing as the right side spool bearing 6X13x3.5. This will free up 1.5 mm which will allow the use of at least 2 belleville washers. This is inspired by the same setup as the penn torque and fathom lever drag series.
minor hiccup, ;D
Yup..I am going to go the route of the bearing sleeve and using the smaller bearings. I just bought an aluminum tube that should fit perfectly. I just need to figure out how much I need to cut. I am thinking maybe 7 or 8 mm in total length should work. I will probably need a spring washer to prevent the end play a bit. BTW there are some nice sets of all ceramic bearings for a decent price on ebay. If this work I may just upgrade to the ceramic bearings.
hi mattt21
i think its more about finding the correct size.all hobby and craft shops ive been to dont carry ss stock
but do have a vast array of brass.
cheers
You are doing serious work on this reel. Would love to see the end result when you have it all done.
Will post pictures once all the parts come in. In the meantime, I fished the reel with the spool sleeve and it performed great. Casted too well which result in a couple of bird nests and lost sinkers :-(
Quote from: maxpowers on December 23, 2014, 05:57:16 AM
Will post pictures once all the parts come in. In the meantime, I fished the reel with the spool sleeve and it performed great. Casted too well which result in a couple of bird nests and lost sinkers :-(
Yes, definitely interested in see the final result as I have 2 M-5SII.
Keep up the great work.
Progress report:
I received the thrust bearing assembly today and proceeded to test what I can. As suspected I cannot have the full thrust assembly and the OEM left spool bearing + 1 belleville + e - clip. Substituting the right spool bearing + the thrust bearing assembly + 1 belleville washer + the left side e-clip, we have a total of 9.2 mm which is almost the same as the OEM dimension (9.3 mm). However since I do not have an extra 6X13X3.5 mm bearing, I opted to not install one of the bearing race of the thrust bearing + the OEM left spool bearing which is 6X15X5 mm which give the same dimension of 9.2 total mm. At 17 lbs of drag, there is pressure in high gear but no binding. Just pressure. Low gear have no issue. Max drag at strike before loss of free spool jumped to 28 lbs which is too much for this reel. I am awaiting my shipment of 6x13x3.5 mm bearings then I will do a complete installation along with the left side bearing sleeve. I will have to find some way to bulk up the bearing to 6x13.30x3.5 mm so that it will fit in the bearing sleeve snugly. Promising results for sure.
Setback:
Anyway all the stuff I needed came in but there is not much improvement over the sleeve only. I am just going to put everything back with just the sleeve and fish it like that. The sleeve measured 21.3 mm long. As long as you buy the brass tube that is about 7 mm ID then it should work fine. That is probably the best improvement you can make to this reel. Thanks everyone for encouraging me to try to find ways to improve the reel. I still think that the 2 c-clips vs a sleeve is what holding back the reel potential.
Excellent work! Keep it up!
Thank you for your hard work and sharing the results.
I recently sleeved my m5ii also ,I did full breakdown and service, I will mention that it was fairly well lubed out of the box , but I cleaned and lubed with my preferred anyways, few questions here
My sleeve came in at 21.52 mm, So I'm set at 10 lbs at strike, smooth with slight resistance on handle but not in low gear
Jumps to 20lbs at full, what were your results?should it jump that much between strike and full?
Also, which Belleville configuration,if any, softened the curve? I am happy with free to strike curve but not strike to full curve,
Free spool is great , almost too great
Lastly ,where do you guys fish this reel at,I fish reels in their intended ranges, for longevity and performance
Pushing any reel beyond their limit is never good, imo
So I have 300yds of jb solid 50# to around 100 yds of izor 30#, so this is a 30# bait setup which I feel is right in the wheelhouse of this reels specs
I'm loving all of my okumas, for the price there is nothing in that range that compares
Quote from: DesertCatRat on February 09, 2015, 06:12:41 PMMy sleeve came in at 21.52 mm, So I'm set at 10 lbs at strike, smooth with slight resistance on handle but not in low gear
Jumps to 20lbs at full, what were your results?should it jump that much between strike and full?
Also, which Belleville configuration,if any, softened the curve? I am happy with free to strike curve but not strike to full curve,
Free spool is great , almost too great.
May want to read posts 6 and 7. See if that helps. And please post up your configuration too as I have yet to do this to my two M-5s.
I think I shimmed the spool bearing instead of adding a sleeve. I used one of Daiwa's shimming washers. I wish I could remember which one I used.
Maybe I didn't say that clearly
I sleeved my m5ii, it is much better
My question was after max powers did his sleeve ,what were his drag #s from strike to full at 12 lbs strike
My sleeve is a few hundreds longer, almost exact length between c clips
His was a few shorter, just curious,
I am happy with mine, but wonder if I take off a tenth will it soften from strike to full
Definitely better than stock c clips
I'm at 11 and 18, strike and full , 29 sec free w 21.52 sleeve, stock Belleville configuration
maybe I should take off a tenth
Quote from: Bryan Young on February 11, 2015, 10:47:33 PM
I think I shimmed the spool bearing instead of adding a sleeve. I used one of Daiwa's shimming washers. I wish I could remember which one I used.
Bryan,
When you say shim , which spool bearing and how?
What results did you get?
Quote from: DesertCatRat on February 12, 2015, 01:08:19 AM
Quote from: Bryan Young on February 11, 2015, 10:47:33 PM
I think I shimmed the spool bearing instead of adding a sleeve. I used one of Daiwa's shimming washers. I wish I could remember which one I used.
Bryan,
When you say shim , which spool bearing and how?
What results did you get?
I think the bearing OD is 13mm. So I placed a shim under the right side spool bearing so the bearing is about 0.002 in.less tthen from where the C-clip is positioned. It works the same as having a properly spaced spool bearing sleeve. Free spool was great as if there was a spool bearing sleeve and it turning the reel from side to side didn't affect the free spool as well. I think I tried 4 different shims be for I found one that worked properly.
I was able to get 15# at strike. I didn't check full though.
The hardest part of assembling this reel is placing the bearing and bellevilles under compression. I think that was why the reel the I worked on had a bad left side bearing. During installation of the E-clip I only applied pressure to the inner race of the bearing.
Alan keeps on telling me to stop and take pictures along the way. Working on reels becomes a therapy tool for my relaxation so I don't always document then I'm tinkering to make the reel better. Sorry.
I definitely won't fish this reel above 12, strike
I'm going to take it back down and take a little off the sleeve in the morning
Great little reel for the price
Quote from: DesertCatRat on February 12, 2015, 02:13:28 AM
I definitely won't fish this reel above 12, strike
I'm going to take it back down and take a little off the sleeve in the morning
Great little reel for the price
There should be very little side to side play in the spool when putting pressure on the inner race of the right side bearing.
we need photos bryan
I'll try to answers several questions on here regarding why I made a sleeve:
1. My original interest in making the sleeve was to find a solution to my inability to get the bellevile washers back in the correct configuration of ()() due to the need to simultaneously compress washers and install the clip.
2. The added benefit of the sleeve was the ability to fish LOWER drag with the full curve from free spool to strike. I read about the on/off like action of the drag when you are setting the strike to less than 8 lbs or so. That kinda defeat one of the advantages of a lever drag.
3. The other benefit is that you can rearrange the bellevile washers without the need to shim to get the kind of drag curve that you like.
4. My test of the drag at strike before losing free spool is about 17-18 lbs or so and the full drag is almost 30 lbs which is way too much for this little reel.
5. I only intend to fish the reel as a 30-50 lbs outfit (ie 10-17 lbs of drag at strike), mostly as a 30 lbs outfit. However I can drop down to fish lower line class 15-25 lbs line without issue.
I truly hate that pre-loading of the Bellevilles. It's easy for anyone to damage the left side spool bearing. I agree with MaxPowers on adding a sleeve. But if you are not planning to remove the E-clip, but want the same effect as adding a spool bearing sleeve, shimming does the job.
I'll make sure I take pics the next time I get a metalloid in for servicing.
Nice, thanks guys
I pulled my sleeve , which is a major improvement, took it down to 21.42 and don't like it at all
A lot of resistance at handle on settings above. 12 strike,
So, going to cut a new one like I had before, at 21.52 and mess with Belleville arrangements to try and soften the curve
My only neg on this reel is the lever is not as robust as I like, it has some free play at free
I am trying to soften it from strike to full, maybe a loosing battle,
Appreciate your input fellas
You may need to change Belleville thicknesses to soften the curve. I think Shimano bellevilles may fit but without a reel, I cannot confirm. Sorry.
Quote from: DesertCatRat on February 12, 2015, 05:48:35 PM
Nice, thanks guys
I pulled my sleeve , which is a major improvement, took it down to 21.42 and don't like it at all
A lot of resistance at handle on settings above. 12 strike,
So, going to cut a new one like I had before, at 21.52 and mess with Belleville arrangements to try and soften the curve
My only neg on this reel is the lever is not as robust as I like, it has some free play at free
I am trying to soften it from strike to full, maybe a loosing battle,
Appreciate your input fellas
Thanks to both you and Max Powers for your hard work in make this into an ever better reel.
Quote from: MattT21 on December 18, 2014, 12:04:20 AM
Of all the spool sleeves I have seen on this site not one is stainless steel. Is there a reason that the sleeves are always made of brass? Are there certain advantages to using brass as opposed to stainless, or is it just to save on the cost?
I think its more an issue of availability and ease of construction. I made a stainless sleeve for my Cavalla out of a piece of stainless bar stock, machined on my lathe. But most members here dont have that capability.
Hey guys
I hope younger all well in these crazy times!
I'm a new user, and new to totally dismantling my reels - but on my Metaloid, I'm going to give this a go!
I have a 5Nii and I hate the drag onset, so I plan to sleeve it. I thought, whilst there, I may as well go for angular contact bearings if I can also.
I have been scouring the world for viable bearings and have a few questions....
Firstly - is the VXB pinion bearing not prone to failure due to no corrosion resistance and an open construct?
I have found another option, but it is pretty expensive. It is however hybrid with a stainless option:
https://www.ortechceramics.com/products/ceramic-bearings/hybrid-ceramic-bearings/angular-contact-hybrid-ball-bearings/706-hybrid-angular-contact-ball-bearings-6x17x6/
I will probably go with this unless people think it's overkill.
In regards to the left side bearing, I have also found a good option that is also angular contact, but instead of 6*15*5, it's sized at 6*15*5.5... so 0.5mm too deep. I am thinking that would be fine, as I would just make the spool shaft slightly shorter...
Is that a good assumption? I mean - I am losing the e-clips so can do this, right?
The left side bearing is here:
https://www.nskmicro.co.jp/english/products/bearing/croxy.html
I believe I'm looking at the MTA06-15 with a DB configuration in stainless... Can someone authoritative please comment: the preload on the inner ring for the left bearing is correct - with the pressure forming on the inner ring (this would also be true for the pinion bearing, but it's not an option on that one.
In regards to the spool bearings, I may as well replace them at this point also.
Can anybody recommend a good (ABEC5+) sealed hybrid steel bearing at 6*13*3.5?
Finally, for the spool, I'm going to try titanium. No reason really, just - it's not a massive cost, it is corrosion resistant and it is a cool idea!
Isn't it?!?
Any comments or suggestions or input - please do shout out!
Hi and welcome :)
I tried angular contact bearings in a similar sized Andros reel. It definitely reduced binding when maxing out the drag to 24/25lbs.
However if the drag is set to 10lb strike and 20lb full it has the same effect of negating the binding - AND you don't have to spend mega bucks on ac bearings.
I also added a spool sleeve to my Andros - it makes life far easier when installing the bellevilles and c clip.
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on November 07, 2020, 11:15:55 AM
Hi and welcome :)
I tried angular contact bearings in a similar sized Andros reel. It definitely reduced binding when maxing out the drag to 24/25lbs.
However if the drag is set to 10lb strike and 20lb full it has the same effect of negating the binding - AND you don't have to spend mega bucks on ac bearings.
I also added a spool sleeve to my Andros - it makes life far easier when installing the bellevilles and c clip.
Thanks Tiddlerbasher
The reel is my jigging reel. It's normally paired to a 20lb max load rod and is used for >10lb fish, so my drag is always 'within limits' of the normal ratings for the Metaloid. As I said, my key aim is to get more control in the lower drag zone of the reel.
I guess I could save some money and go with a decent set of deep groove, full complement bearings, but just make sure I go with the sleeve, right?
If the spool bearings are EZO (as in the Andros) just oil/grease them - I wouldn't bother changing them - they are good quality .
Definitely a spool sleeve - a bit fiddly to get exactly the correct length but worth it. Trying to get the belleviles in with the c clip is made fast easier - without the sleeve it's a nightmare.
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on November 07, 2020, 05:19:37 PM
If the spool bearings are EZO (as in the Andros) just oil/grease them - I wouldn't bother changing them - they are good quality .
Definitely a spool sleeve - a bit fiddly to get exactly the correct length but worth it. Trying to get the belleviles in with the c clip is made fast easier - without the sleeve it's a nightmare.
I have to say, I don't know, I've not checked out the bearings. They don't seem to grind at all, but they could always be a little bit smoother.
I was thinking - if it's open, upgrade!
Also, in regards to the sleeve, do I simply omit the 2 central E-clips/C-clips and rely on the sleeve to brace the left side bearing and bellevues against the left most e-clip, and against the first spool bearing on the right side?
Sorry - I just want to be 100% correct before I embark upon this task!
Is there any need to shim either side of the sleeve, or does it have to just rest on the inner frame?
Welcome board Dave,
Just re: the alternative bearing options, this was the approach boon and I used on ours:
- https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=17776.0 (https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=17776.0)
Mine got pushed pretty hard over the weekend, running 20lb+ all day on numerous kings to about 30lb.
Never missed a beat.
I stripped it down yesterday, just for an inspection, and everything's perfect.
Re: the bellevilles, I find they 'nest' differently when mixed around.
There seems to be one arrangement that allows the e-clip to just pop on, while all other configurations make it much more challenging...
Hope that's of some use.
Good luck and keep us up on progress.
All the best, Justin
Quote from: redsetta on November 08, 2020, 09:14:31 PM
Welcome board Dave,
Just re: the alternative bearing options, this was the approach boon and I used on ours:
- https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=17776.0 (https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=17776.0)
Mine got pushed pretty hard over the weekend, running 20lb+ all day on numerous kings to about 30lb.
Never missed a beat.
I stripped it down yesterday, just for an inspection, and everything's perfect.
Re: the bellevilles, I find they 'nest' differently when mixed around.
There seems to be one arrangement that allows the e-clip to just pop on, while all other configurations make it much more challenging...
Hope that's of some use.
Good luck and keep us up on progress.
All the best, Justin
Hi there
Thank you for your warm sentiments, and thank you for your assistance.
I had seen this post before but could not find it again.
I sort of followed your lead. I did not go for the angular contact bearings. Instead, I went for a set of SS/ceramic hybrid bearings. They are deep groove ABEC-7, but they do have a lot of axial play (P58?), however this is supposed to be good for angular load instances.
I got them from ABEC357. The left bearing is sealed, as are the spool bearings. The pinion bearing however is open. That's a little unfortunate, meaning I need to keep on top of it with cleaning and lube (can run dry, but for the sakes of that axial play, I will pack it with a little oil or Cal's.
I got a titanium tube of 10mm(OD)/7mm(ID) off of eBay. I have a decent pipe cutter so will have a go at getting as accurate as possible in measuring, marking, cutting and then filing.
I'm really looking forward to the project!
This is my kayak jigging reel. It's a little work horse that handles <5kg fish most days, but here in Dubai, that jig could be grabbed by a king or a Cobia - or even a reef shark. In these instances, you want your reel to cope!
Hey Guys
Merry Christmas:)
So... It is done.
It took me longer than I expected. Chiefly because, a little like working on your damy saloon Ford in 1977, not all parts are as expected!
My dog tooth assembly was like the Andros, not at all like all the Metaloid walkthrough's I've seen. Perhaps, because I have the M5Nii, the arrangement is different - I don't know. All I can say is - I'm glad for this forum, as it was here where I found out how to reassemble the dog tooth!
So - I stripped it, cleaned it all, gave all internal surfaces a sheen of Cal's and went about swapping the bearings.
The units I got were all 440/ceramic hybrids, all but the left hand spool bearing are open.
I oiled them with specific lube, then seated the left spool bearing, the 2 small spool bearing and the bearing in the drag plate. The main drag bearing is also open. I oiled it, and because of where it is, I also packed it a little with some Cal's.
I know I didn't need to do it for corrosion's sake - and I know it's not going to help freespool at all.... But it just felt right to do it!
On reassembling the shaft, I measured the gap between the two e-clip grooves to be 10.1mm.
I used a pipe cutter to cut me a piece of titanium rod I got from eBay... ID=7mm, OD=10mm.
I cut a piece off at 10.8mm and I reassembled. It was too big.
I cut it back to 10.6mm, but again, too big.
I ended up with a sleeve of 10.2mm.
This gives me a great range of drag. Can quite literally spin the reel in freespool, then clip up once to an abrupt stop. Each click of increased drag makes a definitive difference - it's amazing!
The drag disc was dry before service, which I have now fixed.
I used to get about 12lbs on strike - Max. Now, I reckon I get at least 18/19. On this setting, I can push it through to full and get LOTS of drag - much more run before. It is also not binding at this point.
Sure, it gets some resistance, but no grind or bind - it's perfect smooth; just a little tougher to turn.
All 4 bearings are 'deep groove' ceramic/stainless hybrids with 'big balls.'
They are designed for higher axial load, but not as high as full angular contact bearings. With no oil or lube, they felt a little 'loose.' This was the P58 sizing. They have a relatively high axial play. I didn't want this (which part of the reason I packed them a little!) but I was assured that, once under load, the play will go away... And sure enough, it has.
Critically, the axial load they take is perfectly enough. I can crank the drag nob fully tight at freespool and yet can still set the drag to full... and I can still turn the handle. It's very tight, but still smooth. I don't know exactly, but the drag is super high - it's got to be >28/29lbs.
I'm not running it anywhere near that. Probably maxing out at about 20lbs - but it is buttery smooth!
Great work Dave - thanks for the update (and particularly the detail).
Be great to see some trip reports and pics!
Merry Christmas mate and good luck out on the water.
Cheers, Justin
If it fills 'Tight' to crank it's damaging the the left spool and pinion bearings period!!!!
I've played with this reel (and bearings) for a number of years. Just set the drag to 10lbs at strike and you will get approx. 20lbs at full - the bearings will thank you ;)
If you need more than that you need a BIGGER reel ;D
Seriously - 20lb drag equates to 60/80lb line.
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on December 16, 2020, 08:10:38 PM
If it fills 'Tight' to crank it's damaging the the left spool and pinion bearings period!!!!
I've played with this reel (and bearings) for a number of years. Just set the drag to 10lbs at strike and you will get approx. 20lbs at full - the bearings will thank you ;)
If you need more than that you need a BIGGER reel ;D
Seriously - 20lb drag equates to 60/80lb line.
Exactly... I'm probably set higher than this, but the principle is the same. I totally agree - if I'm asking more than 20 of it, I probably need a bigger reel... But it is now ready for a dedicated role.
I was using it on my light jigging rod. I'm dealing with small fish with this guy, and the rod will be pretty useless beyond say 5kgs.
I have a second, heavier jigging rod, but I hardly get to use it. It is tested to 23kgs, but in terms of fighting a fish, the rod backbone is probably worth no more than 10kgs... It will be a great pairing!
For my light jigging rod, I wrote to Santa and asked for a Seigler SGN. Fingers crossed....
Quote from: redsetta on December 16, 2020, 08:08:32 PM
Great work Dave - thanks for the update (and particularly the detail).
Be great to see some trip reports and pics!
Merry Christmas mate and good luck out on the water.
Cheers, Justin
For sure - I'll get some action pics and post them. Also, I will at some point open the reel to replace the magnets in there where I magged it. I will strip it down to show the bearings I bought. I got them from ABEC357.
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on December 16, 2020, 08:10:38 PM
If it fills 'Tight' to crank it's damaging the the left spool and pinion bearings period!!!!
I've played with this reel (and bearings) for a number of years. Just set the drag to 10lbs at strike and you will get approx. 20lbs at full - the bearings will thank you ;)
If you need more than that you need a BIGGER reel ;D
Seriously - 20lb drag equates to 60/80lb line.
This was playing on my mind this morning, so I went back and took another look.
The resistance I am feeling is present at freespool. I think it is just the difference between a fully greased set of gears, and gears that were clearly in need of some love and attention!
To give a comparison, before I stripped it down, at freespool - and up until the last 3-4 clicks before strike, there was no drag. There was also very little resistance in the cranking handle, in that I could hold the reel on its side and by tilting/rotating, the crank handle would go round.
Now, with the greasing, there is an a resistance to that. The reel now freespools for over a minute, but the handle has a resistance that feels smooth... A little like changing gear in rear wheel drive car to a front wheel drive! It actually feels exactly like my Avet MXJ Raptor did for the first few days on the kayak, before the gears shed the excess lube I guess.
The important thing - that resistance doesn't change from freespool to full drag... I think. I mean, I'm judging somewhat subjectively. If it does in fact increase, it's by a very small amount.
I need to get it out and get it into action to really find out. This is on the agenda!!
In regards to the bearings themselves, time will tell I guess, but at this point, I think my key bring-back to the group is this:
I don't think angular contact bearings are necessary. To get a right pinion bearing and a far left zpool/pinion bearing that a re both angular contact, you will be paying north of $100USD, or you are looking at unshielded chrome Steve bearings that will corrode in saltwater in no time.
If you can find some half decent deep groove hybrids (which I did!), then the deeper groove gives you a higher axial load capacity, and the balls are stronger than steel balls anyhow, so you are getting wat you need.
Half decent hybrids cost me (for all 4 bearings) $55USD. These, with a correctly sized sleeve give the reel access to a full, consistent drag curve and a drag level that SAFELY is beyond what such a little reel should be subjected to.
If you have - or come across- a Metaloid 5Nii that has been somewhat neglected, this is a great little project to turn around a reel that, when complete, feels 90-95% as solid and smooth as that MXJ Raptor. The fact it looks a bit battered makes it my EMO reel - so I'm happy!
Bearings from www.abec357.com
Small spool bearings (2 required): SMR686C-P58-A7-LD
Left pinion bearing: SMR696C2OSP58A7LD
Right pinion bearing: SMR606C-P58-A7-LD
Ti tube from eBay (ID=7mm, OD=10mm, length=150mm - piece required = 10.2mm... $15USD