Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Fishing Rods => Jon Vadney Custom Rods => Topic started by: Alans Buddy on January 03, 2015, 09:44:37 PM



Title: Long range arsenal
Post by: Alans Buddy on January 03, 2015, 09:44:37 PM
What lb classes and how many, rods/reels would you bring on a typical long range trip? Trying to get an idea of equipment I need to amass. If I need too many Penn Torques, I may stick with trout.


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Jon Vadney on January 04, 2015, 12:58:37 AM
This is a question that has a million answers haha.  I'll do my best to give you my opinion about what is essential (minimum), preferred (what most people will bring), and preferred + niche setups.  Also, initially I'll list what type of reels are popular for each type of fishing and what you'll be doing with them.

30# - Whatever reel you want and whatever your budget will allow.  Penn 500 Jigmasters, Accurate 400 or 400N, Trinidad 14, ProGear 255/cs501/albacore special, etc.  Any basic saltwater reel will work here.
40/50# yoyo - Yoyo fishing is where you drop an iron down (usually a Salas 6X or 6X jr) and reel it back to the boat as fast as you can to catch yellowtail. A narrow reel is a must.  Popular choices are the Baja Special, Trinidad 40 (or 40N if you can find one), BX600N, ProGear Yellowtail Special, or if money is of absolutely no object, get an Ocea Jigger 4000P.
40# - live bait setup. Any of the smaller 2speeds will work here.  I find that 40# is where I make the switch to 2 speeds because if I'm using 40# for bait, generally I'm in an area that could produce a 100#+ YFT and I want to have the low gear in case one eats my bait (guadelupe if it ever re-opens, alijos, lower banks, offshore bluefin, etc).  Popular reels are going to be the Talica 12 or 16, Makaira 10 (the 15 sucks, it's too wide), Penn TRQ25NLD2, I'm sure an avet is applicable here but I hate those reels so I refuse to learn their shitty model numbers, Accurate BX600N or NN 2 speed or 500 2 speed.  
40# - Surface Iron. Reel choices are all over the place here.  Without a doubt the most popular reel is going to be the newell s533-5.5.  2nd in popularity is going to be a Trinidad 20.  What I use is a Shimano TLD Star 15/30 that I had Alan trick out.  The reel costs $100 and is PERFECT for YT on the surface iron.  
50# - wahoo bombs.  Ignore gear ratios for a moment, it's all about inches per turn when we are talking about wahoo.  I won't even consider a reel that gets less than 40" per turn for these fish.  These are lures that you want to reel back in as fast as humanly possible, while still having some cranking power once you hook up because with wahoo you don't pump the rod, you just grind them in.  The reason for this is that they have rock hard mouths and any slack caused from the pumping can result in the hook falling out.  Popular reels: Trinidad 40/40N, Accurate DPX2-600ND/NND or DPX2-600ND/NND, Penn Baja Special, ProGear Wahoo Special, Tib SST8
50# - Bait Essentially the same reels at 40# bait because with 40# you are generally backing your reels with 60# hollow or 65# solid spectra, and you can put 40# or 50# topshots onto that with no problem.  I would also add in the Accurate DPX2-600ND, and drop the Talica 12 and Accurate 500 from the list.
60# - Bait 60# is probably the least used line weight there is.  People usually just jump from 50 to 80, but i really like 60# for fish in that 90# - 130# range.  If the 130# fish are eating 100# line, I'd use that but generally speaking that isn't the case.  Popular reels are going to be: Accurate DPX2-600ND or ATD6, Penn TRQ30LD2, Shimano Talica 16 or 20.
80#/100# - Trolling  It really doesn't matter what reel/rod you are using for trolling on any trip shorter than the ultra-longrange trips.  You aren't going to hook a cow tuna while trolling around Alijos or while offshore.  A Penn 6/0 on any rod rated for 80# or 100# will be just fine.  That being said, once you get to the lower zone, your trolling will be done with 100# or 130# and you will want a quality setup as big tuna have been known to eat trolled lures. Any of the live-bait setups I list below for 100#/130# would work fine.
80# - Bait Popular reels: Accurate ATD 12, Penn TRQ40LD, Okuma Makaira 16sea, Penn INTL 20 Cal-Sheets'd out, Talica 20.
100# - Bait Popular reels: Accurate ATD 12, Accurate ATD 30 topless, Makaira 20sea, Penn INTL 30 Cal-Sheets'd out, Talica 25
130# - Bait Popular reels: Accurate ATD 30 topless, Makaira 20sea, Penn INTL 30 Cal-Sheets'd out, Talica 25
150# - big bait/chunk Popular reels: Accurate ATD 50 topless, Makaira 50sea, Penn INTL 50 Cal-Sheets'd out, Talica 50,
200#-300# kite Popular reels: Accurate ATD50W, ATD80, Makaira 50W, Makaira 80, Penn Intl 50w, 70VSX, or 80 all Cal-Sheets'd out.  The best reel for the kite of all time is a Penn Intl 80T that has gone to Cal's to be 2 speeded, high-high gear and a granny gear (4:1/1.1) installed, and has a Baker 80N frame.  All said and done for this reel is over $2000


Rod choices are all over the place here as well.  I'll give a quick rundown of what I would use from each major manufacturer.  I'm listing blank identifiers as I'm doing all of this off of the top of my head and I know that a lot of companies have a different designation for the completed rod.  Additionally, there are other rods from the manufacturers that I have listed that will work with absolutely no problems at all (the glass variants for instance), but I'm listing the rods that are the most popular and rods that I have first hand experience using.

Calstar:

30# - 700ML or 800ML
40# bait - 700H
40# surface iron - BT90J
40#/50# yoyo - 700H or 765L
50# bomb - 700XH
50# bait - 700XH
60# bait - 765ML
80# bait - 770XH or 765M
100# bait - 770XXH
130# bait - 770XXXH
150#+ - 770XXXXH

Seeker (I'm on the Seeker pro staff so they are my preferred brand):

30# - CJBF70M or CJBF80M
40# bait - CJBF70
40# surface iron - ULUA93H
40#/50# yoyo - CJBF70H or CJBF65H
50# bomb - CJBF70H
50# bait - CJBF70H or CJBF645XH
60# bait - CJBF70XH
80# bait - SS-1X3 or CTSF63XXH
100# bait - SS-2X4, OSP2x4 or CTSF63XXXH
130# bait - OSP 3x or CTSF63XXXXH
150# + - SS-3X5, OSP 4x

United Composites
30# - US 78 Mega
40# bait - US 70 Monster
40# surface iron - US 100 Monster
40#/50# yoyo - US 70 Monster or US 65HP
50# bomb - US 70 Wahoo JR
50# bait - US 70 Wahoo JR or US 65XXOS
60# bait - US 70 Predator
80# bait - CX 70 Raptor
100# bait - CX 70 Viper
130# bait - CX 70 Invictus
150#+ - CX 70 Gladiator

Phenix
30# - PHD-838MH-B
40# bait - PHD-760H-B
40#/50# yoyo - PHD-700XH-B or PHD-660XH-B
40# surface iron - PHD-929H-B
50# bomb - PHD-700XH-B or PHD-760XH-B or PHD-869XH-B
50# bait - PHD-700XH-B
60# bait - PHD-700XH-B
80# bait - PHD-700X2H-B
100# bait - PHD-700X3H-B
130# bait - PHD-700X3H-B
150#+ - PHD-700X4H-B

3-6 Day
Minimum
30# bait
40# bait
40/50# 2 speed (what I mean by 40/50 is a setup that could be used for either)
This is the bare minimum and you will be using the boats gear for trolling and the dropper loop if Those techniques are done on your trip

Preferred
30# bait
40# or 50# single or two speed for yoyo fishing or bait
40# bait
50# bait
60# bait/dropper loop
Boats trolling gear

Preferred +
20#/25# bait
30# bait
40# single speed star drag for surface iron
40# or 50# single or two speed for yoyo fishing or bait
40# bait
40# bait
50# bait
60# bait/dropper loop
80# or 100# (trolling)

7 - 10 Day
Minimum
30# bait
40# or 50# single or two speed for yoyo fishing
40# bait
50# bait
50# single or 2 speed for bombs

Preferred
30# bait
40# or 50# single or two speed for yoyo fishing.
40# single speed star drag for surface iron
40# bait
40# bait
50# single or 2 speed for bombs
50# bait
60# bait/dropper loop
Boats trolling gear

Preferred +
30# bait
40# or 50# single or two speed for yoyo fishing.
40# single speed star drag for surface iron
40# bait
40# bait
50# bombs
50# bait
60# bait
80# bait/dropper loop
100# or 130# bait/troll

Longer than 10 (cow tuna fishing)

Minimum
50# single or 2 speed for bombs
80# bait
100# bait
130# bait
Boat's kite gear

Preferred
50# single or 2 speed for bombs
50# single or 2 speed for wahoo iron
80# bait
100# bait
100# bait
130# bait
130# bait
Boat's kite gear

Preferred +
50# single or 2 speed for bombs
50# single or 2 speed for wahoo iron
80# bait
100# bait
100# bait
130# bait
130# bait
130# 50 sized reel with high speed gears for jig fishing cow tuna
150# big bait/chunk
200#-300# kite

After you get the essentials for whatever length trip you want, then you can start to throw in some of the fun setups like a popping rod, waxwing rod, vertical jigging rod, etc.



Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: conchydong on January 04, 2015, 04:39:53 AM
Wow, what a great post Jon. Very informative.

 Alan or another administrator, could you save this info as a sticky somewhere so this post will be easy to find again?


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: BMITCH on January 04, 2015, 07:19:02 AM
Jon, what a great post. Some of these recommendations also apply to our NE canyon head boat fishing. Most are only 24 to 48 hours but the jigging and bait rods/reels will also apply. Thanks for such a detailed reply.
Bob


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Alans Buddy on January 04, 2015, 10:28:16 AM
Damn Jon. Thanks for the info! I'll have to sift through it. Crazy!
No wonder Alan's garage looks like it does, especially with redundancy and never not having what you need.


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: johndtuttle on January 04, 2015, 10:55:07 AM
I can't really add to Jon's fine post other than just some general comments.

You can make long range as simple or as complicated as you want to with most of the trips from 3-8 days targeting a wide variety of species that will still succumb to very simple techniques (typically because the fishing is so good).

The Key Rig is always a quality setup for fishing "40lb" live bait leader as 95% of the fish landed fall into the "schoolie" category of 20-40lbs with fish over 100lbs being less than 5% of the catch.

The basic "40lb" rig has for years been a simple star drag reel making 15-18lbs of drag.

You can fish live bait leaders from 15-100lbs on this rig. You can fish iron on the bottom or surface for Wahoo or Yellowtail. You can fish the "dropper loop" (weighted live bait on the bottom) with it too. Basically, it can do it all.

I like a Penn Torque or Fathom 25N spooled with 50lb braid on a 7' stick rated 20-50. This will land 95%+ of the fish and can truly do it all because it is a superior caster of surface iron or live bait as compared to any Lever Drag reel. It is also simpler and more reliable over time.

Essentially it is a rig built around a 3/0 size quality star drag reel. There is no better all around reel for anything in saltwater from Alaska to Panama for the majority of the catch encountered and the basic techniques used.

Everything else is just gravy, nicer for a specific application, little heavier or lighter, little longer or shorter, little faster or slower, little more cranking power etc etc but not at all required to land tonnage.

Master this "40lb" 3/0 Star Drag rig and you will feel very comfortable on any fishing boat on the West Coast of North America short of true dedicated Cow fishing.


best




Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: alantani on January 04, 2015, 12:06:29 PM
my contribution to this post?  um, yeah, stickied......   ;D


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Alans Buddy on January 04, 2015, 12:28:06 PM
Thanks for that advice John. I was hoping that I could start with one good quality all around setup and go from there. I'll be heading to the ISE to check some of this year out.


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: fIsHsTiiCkS on January 04, 2015, 01:56:12 PM
SOLID post man! Great work!


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Alto Mare on January 04, 2015, 02:05:30 PM
Nice write up, I thought I had enough gear ::) ;D.


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: MarkT on January 04, 2015, 02:55:53 PM
I did a 10 day in early Oct '14 on the Excel.

I took:

25# Avet MXJ/Phenix psw808mh - Making bait and bait for Dorado
30# Avet SX Raptor/OC Rods Kaiuli 70mf - bait
30# ProGear 280/psw809h - bait
40# Daiwa Lexa 400/psw809h - Poppers, stick baits and Megabaits
40# Avet JX 6/3/Seeker G6470 - bait, Yoyo, flat fall jigs
40# Daiwa salt40II/psw760h - bait
40# Shimano Torium 20/psw809xhj - Surface iron
50# Avet JX Raptor/psw700xh - Yoyo and bait for wahoo
50# Avet HX Raptor/phd700x2h - Yoyo and bombs
60-80# Okuma Makaira 16Sea/phd7003xh - never used

On my trip I used 30# the most for bait, YFT weren't that big last year.


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: fIsHsTiiCkS on January 04, 2015, 03:50:47 PM
I'm going to show this to my fiance and just say "I told you I needed more gear!"  ;D


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Dominick on January 04, 2015, 04:01:25 PM
I did a 10 day in early Oct '14.

I took:

25# Avet MXJ/Phenix psw808mh - Making bait and bait for Dorado
30# Avet SX Raptor/OC Rods Kaiuli 70mf - bait
30# ProGear 280/psw809h - bait
40# Daiwa Lexa 400/psw809h - Poppers, stick baits and Megabaits
40# Avet JX 6/3/Seeker 6470 - bait, Yoyo, flat fall jigs
40# Daiwa salt40II/psw760h - bait
40# Shimano Torium 20/psw809xhj - Surface iron
50# Avet JX Raptor/psw700xh - Yoyo and bait for wahoo
50# Avet HX Raptor/phd700x2h - Yoyo and bombs
60-80# Okuma Makaira 16Sea/phd7003xh - never used

On my trip I used 30# the most for bait, YFT weren't that big last year.

Something wrong here, I don't see the word Penn anywhere. :D Dominick


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: alantani on January 04, 2015, 04:01:49 PM
she's going to tell you to get a new hobby.  don't be surprised when you get a set of knitting needles for you birthday!


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Alto Mare on January 04, 2015, 04:11:56 PM
I did a 10 day in early Oct '14.

I took:

25# Avet MXJ/Phenix psw808mh - Making bait and bait for Dorado
30# Avet SX Raptor/OC Rods Kaiuli 70mf - bait
30# ProGear 280/psw809h - bait
40# Daiwa Lexa 400/psw809h - Poppers, stick baits and Megabaits
40# Avet JX 6/3/Seeker 6470 - bait, Yoyo, flat fall jigs
40# Daiwa salt40II/psw760h - bait
40# Shimano Torium 20/psw809xhj - Surface iron
50# Avet JX Raptor/psw700xh - Yoyo and bait for wahoo
50# Avet HX Raptor/phd700x2h - Yoyo and bombs
60-80# Okuma Makaira 16Sea/phd7003xh - never used

On my trip I used 30# the most for bait, YFT weren't that big last year.

Something wrong here, I don't see the word Penn anywhere. :D Dominick
A 501,4/0 and 6/0 will do just as good and let you keep $6,000 in your pocket ;) ;D


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: MarkT on January 04, 2015, 04:22:54 PM
I did a 10 day in early Oct '14.

I took:

25# Avet MXJ/Phenix psw808mh - Making bait and bait for Dorado
30# Avet SX Raptor/OC Rods Kaiuli 70mf - bait
30# ProGear 280/psw809h - bait
40# Daiwa Lexa 400/psw809h - Poppers, stick baits and Megabaits
40# Avet JX 6/3/Seeker 6470 - bait, Yoyo, flat fall jigs
40# Daiwa salt40II/psw760h - bait
40# Shimano Torium 20/psw809xhj - Surface iron
50# Avet JX Raptor/psw700xh - Yoyo and bait for wahoo
50# Avet HX Raptor/phd700x2h - Yoyo and bombs
60-80# Okuma Makaira 16Sea/phd7003xh - never used

On my trip I used 30# the most for bait, YFT weren't that big last year.

Something wrong here, I don't see the word Penn anywhere. :D Dominick

I have been thinking of adding a couple of the new Fathom leverdrags to the lineup... The 25n and 40n.

I use a Penn 525 Mag for 20# and have GS535 and GS545 as backups for 25# and 30# and a YTS for 40#.  The 525 has a Torque handle and the other two GS's have Daiwa SL handles.  The YTS is pretty much max'd out. They didn't make the cut. If I needed another 25# I'd have gone with a Torium 16 and a PG545 for 30#. The Penn 525 mag is my favorite for 20# backed up by an Avet SX and a couple of ProGears (255 & 501). No call for 20# rigs on a 10 day.

There were no 501's on the boat.  There might've been a 4/0 or 6/0 but they probably stayed in the rack.  There were a couple of 113hn in play as well as Fathom and Torque 25n 2-spd.


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Newell Nut on January 04, 2015, 05:08:54 PM
No Newells either on the list. I take Newells and Penns on every trip and they get along quite well together and never get into a fight except with fish. ;D


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: MarkT on January 04, 2015, 05:14:22 PM
There might have been a 533 on board for Wahoo.  I traded my G220, 229 and 332 for nib ProGear 255, 251 and 545. I figure I came out on top.

Most reels on board were Avets and Shimano Talicas and Trinidad. Plenty of Okumas fo the heavier rigs.


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Jon Vadney on January 04, 2015, 07:01:04 PM
To the comments about using a penn 4/0 or Newell or penn 501 or whatever else, I say this: if you hooked a fish at the upper echelon of the grade you would target with that particular line class (80# or 90# YFT on 40, 50#bft on 30#, etc) would you feel more comfortable with the reels listed above or with a small, tricked out 2speed?  Ask yourself that question and let the answer guide you to what reels you choose. 


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: MarkT on January 04, 2015, 07:11:21 PM
When I caught the BFT in my avatar last spring, there were people hooked up on single speed reels. Most didn't land the fish.


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: fIsHsTiiCkS on January 04, 2015, 09:23:30 PM
When I caught the BFT in my avatar last spring, there were people hooked up on single speed reels. Most didn't land the fish.

When it comes to single vs 2 speed. The advantage of the 2 speed is the ability to switch from high to low gear. Low gear being the one that helps get the fish in and high if that cow guns it for the boat. I usually run a 4:1 on my bait reels and find it a SOLID balance between high/low gears. Haven't lost one from not feeling like I had enough power.

I know all of you know everything I just said but I'm saying that cuz if they were losing those fish on single speeds, then I would have to say they weren't using proper single speeds for that kind of fishing. With that said I'm looking into the Fathom 25n, 40n and some avets as I do think anything about 50# should have a 2 speed.

As always just my 2 cents  ;D


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: fIsHsTiiCkS on January 04, 2015, 09:24:45 PM
she's going to tell you to get a new hobby.  don't be surprised when you get a set of knitting needles for you birthday!

Hahaha oh Alan the "needing a new hobby" conversation has just started to begin  :-\ ;)


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Jon Vadney on January 04, 2015, 09:40:57 PM
When I caught the BFT in my avatar last spring, there were people hooked up on single speed reels. Most didn't land the fish.

When it comes to single vs 2 speed. The advantage of the 2 speed is the ability to switch from high to low gear. Low gear being the one that helps get the fish in and high if that cow guns it for the boat. I usually run a 4:1 on my bait reels and find it a SOLID balance between high/low gears. Haven't lost one from not feeling like I had enough power.

I know all of you know everything I just said but I'm saying that cuz if they were losing those fish on single speeds, then I would have to say they weren't using proper single speeds for that kind of fishing. With that said I'm looking into the Fathom 25n, 40n and some avets as I do think anything about 50# should have a 2 speed.

As always just my 2 cents  ;D

It has more to do with having the strength at the end of the battle to still be "on your game" and not overly fatigued.  Additionally, with low gear, you can just lay the rod on the rail and grind the fish in without having to pump (waste energy).  It's not that the 2 speed lands the fish for you, it's just that it allows you to gain line at the beginning of the fight easily and grind when the fish is vertical.  40# bait and up, 2speed all the way for me. 


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: fIsHsTiiCkS on January 04, 2015, 09:54:31 PM
Gotta hit those free weight every once in a while, won't be so tired ;). Just kidding man. Completely understand! Guess I got to use to the pump method! Definitely love me some 2 speeds though


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Alto Mare on January 04, 2015, 09:59:41 PM
Technology moves on and the two speed is a great design, I've seen it myself, but I don't believe that a 2" spool with two speed is better than a 6" spool, able to retrieving over 40" per crank when fighting monsters  :-\.
Not arguing or disagreeing, just mentioning that a single speed has caught fish in the past, more than today. We just need to eat our wheaties  ;D.


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Jon Vadney on January 05, 2015, 12:04:06 AM
Gotta hit those free weight every once in a while, won't be so tired ;). Just kidding man. Completely understand! Guess I got to use to the pump method! Definitely love me some 2 speeds though

I dont like to lift weights.  They're heavy.


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Jon Vadney on January 05, 2015, 12:11:18 AM
Technology moves on and the two speed is a great design, I've seen it myself, but I don't believe that a 2" spool with two speed is better than a 6" spool, able to retrieving over 40" per crank when fighting monsters  :-\.
Not arguing or disagreeing, just mentioning that a single speed has caught fish in the past, more than today. We just need to eat our wheaties  ;D.
Haha, For fun, I'd be willing to bet that over the years more fish >100# have been landed on multi-speed reels than on single speed (speaking strictly to rod and reel angling).  Think about the major sport-fishing ports where they are routinely landing fish over 100 pounds....they have been using 2 speeds since the late 60's early 70's at least.  I'll agree that more fish have been landed on single speeds (by a longshot....not even close.....not in the same league....not even the same f***ing sport [pulp fiction quote]), but I believe that there have been more trophy saltwater fish landed on 2 speeds than single.  

But to speak directly to what you're saying, you'd rather fight a 130# bluefin tuna on a single speed 4/0 with 40# line than a Makaira 10 with 40#?


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: fIsHsTiiCkS on January 05, 2015, 12:13:38 AM
Gotta hit those free weight every once in a while, won't be so tired ;). Just kidding man. Completely understand! Guess I got to use to the pump method! Definitely love me some 2 speeds though

I dont like to lift weights.  They're heavy.

Haha well said  :D


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Alto Mare on January 05, 2015, 01:52:03 AM

But to speak directly to what you're saying, you'd rather fight a 130# bluefin tuna on a single speed 4/0 with 40# line than a Makaira 10 with 40#?

No, not at all. A two speed is an excellent design.
To me, it would be nice to bring in a fish over 1,000 lbs one day while holding a 14/0, that would make it for me. ;D


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Jon Vadney on January 05, 2015, 03:08:38 AM

But to speak directly to what you're saying, you'd rather fight a 130# bluefin tuna on a single speed 4/0 with 40# line than a Makaira 10 with 40#?

No, not at all. A two speed is an excellent design.
To me, it would be nice to bring in a fish over 1,000 lbs one day while holding a 14/0, that would make it for me. ;D

If you ever decide to take on that challenge, seriously, I will build you a rod for it free of charge and go with you to watch you do it. 


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Alto Mare on January 05, 2015, 03:27:51 AM

But to speak directly to what you're saying, you'd rather fight a 130# bluefin tuna on a single speed 4/0 with 40# line than a Makaira 10 with 40#?

No, not at all. A two speed is an excellent design.
To me, it would be nice to bring in a fish over 1,000 lbs one day while holding a 14/0, that would make it for me. ;D

If you ever decide to take on that challenge, seriously, I will build you a rod for it free of charge and go with you to watch you do it. 

It would be an honor having one of your rods and I will own one one day, but it would need to be one of these vintage Fenwick
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=2493.msg14474#msg14474
That is if I have any money left to go fish, from paying college tuition. I'm still not done Undecided.

Sorry John, I pulled away from your great post above.
I had no idea each of you guys bring so much gear on a long range trip, thanks for your advise.

Sal


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Jon Vadney on January 05, 2015, 04:04:15 AM
No need to apologize Sal.  Discussions are good!  That's what these forums are for after all.  When a lot of opinions are voiced, the reader can take from each one something that makes sense to them and then decide for themselves. 


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: johndtuttle on January 05, 2015, 08:41:11 AM
To the comments about using a penn 4/0 or Newell or penn 501 or whatever else, I say this: if you hooked a fish at the upper echelon of the grade you would target with that particular line class (80# or 90# YFT on 40, 50#bft on 30#, etc) would you feel more comfortable with the reels listed above or with a small, tricked out 2speed?  Ask yourself that question and let the answer guide you to what reels you choose. 

Like most of these discussions the trouble is posting single and clear thoughts on the topic and sorting out the rare case from the common.

If you look at the Landing Data of the fish actually caught (I did a couple of years ago) you can see just how common it is to land 100lb YFT or BFT and you find it is a very rare part of the catch within 8 day range of San Diego. These are trips targeting those larger fish but the chances are like 95% you will never see them on your trip.

It bumps up a few percentage points when you get to 10 day range, and then is pretty standard (and considered bad fishing :)) to be only catching 100lbers on a 14 day targeting Cows. But even then, "Cows" (Tuna over 200lbs) are only 1% of the fish landed yet guys take 4+ rigs just for cow fishing. They are targeting Cows after all.

Be that as it may, recent experience is a powerful motivator and if you do find yourself undergunned (or out of shape) most people tend to err on the side of caution. Conversely, those that consider themselves a little more "salty" are sometimes less concerned about the chance of being under gunned and prefer to fish more comfortable rigs to hold at the rail etc etc etc.

Basically to each their own.

If you are planning on live bait fishing exclusively then a modern 2-speed is a solid foundation for the "40lb" rig.

They are not as nice for casting and would be a second choice for slinging surface iron. But they are arguably better for yo-yo than a single speed reel because they have speed and cranking power. They definitely are better for dropper loop fishing (straight up and down) too so can definitely be considered in that "all around" category. Just don't get one too big as the bigger they are the more casting light baits gets challenging.

But, on most trips, on most fish, if you had that 3/0 quality star drag with you, you would be fishing it on the smaller models more commonly encountered and the 2 -speed would be in the rack. They fish a live bait that much nicer. They are easier to cast a little farther and the bait swims because it can pull line off of the lighter spool better. Turns a dud bait into a little engine that could. My 2 cents.

In addition to your choice of the 30/40lb rig for up to 8 day range the next one to add, imho, is a quality "Dropper Loop" set up. This is a 50-60lb rig fished on a shorter and heavier stick (like a Penn 16VSX, Accurate ATD12 etc on a 6'6" rod rated ~40-80). I always fish the dropper when I am dead beat and don't have the energy to yo-yo or nurse a bait. Gets bit heavy and 2 speeds is *very* useful here.

If you do get into the 100lb grade of fish this is also what you really want, imo. Get a hot bait, get bit, and have no trouble at all bringing the fish to the boat. You do always want something heavy in the rack offshore. In this case, I prefer the challenge of getting bit on a heavier rig rather than the guaranteed hookup on something too light to boat the fish.


(in before "remember that time when it was 120lb BFT boiling around the boat but they would only bite 30lb and you needed an 8' rod with the tip just so to cast away from the boat and only the hot sticks could get bit and only one was landed...." and other rare events that you can plan a lifetime for and never see but seem to happen once a year for one boat out of thousands off of San Diego.)

Of course, this reflects my own evolution for as minimalist as I may seem en regards to live bait fishing (really doesn't float my boat but, hey, it's fishing) I then add to these two basic rigs at least 2 jigging setups and 3-4 popping/stick bait rigs :D. I do wish I had the discipline to fish one rig the whole trip, you really would land everything you could ever want with it if stocking the freezer and fishing till your arms fall of was the only goal.






Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Jon Vadney on January 10, 2015, 04:41:32 AM
I think john hit it on the head when he spoke about his "minimalist philosophy".  Your gear choice really has to come down to your philosophy of longrange fishing.  For me, longrange fishing is the only thing I lose sleep over.  The week before a longrange trip, I'm an absolute wreck.  I can't sleep.  I've gone over my "check list" no less than 5 times a day.  My wife hates me and my dogs are confused at this sleepless mumbling neanderthal who keeps moving fishing tackle around the house.  I look at longrange like this: all other fishing is to pass the time between longrange trips.  I don't care one bit about salmon (in fact, i reeeeeealllllly don't like salmon fishing).  I don't care about halibut.  I don't care about rockfish.  It's fun, but I'm not gonna stress over it.  Longrange for me is like a golfer playing at St. Andrews.  I WILL NOT go out there without the absolute best gear I can afford because ANY bait that I put in the water could mean a fish of a lifetime from one of my top 3 favorite fish to target (#1 YFT, #2 wahoo, #3 YT).  I can't catch any of those fish up here where I live, so the 8 - 12 days a year I get to spend on a longrange boat, I refuse to have myself undergunned.

With that being said, John is DEAD on when he states that you could do almost all of your LR fishing with a 3/0 sized star drag reel that can get 15-18# of drag. And he is also right in that 95% of the fish you hook on a LR trip will end up being <100#.  I rig up and am targeting that remaining 5%. Do I succeed?  Sometimes.  Do I have more money invested in gear than what is necessary to fish for what I fish for?  Absolutely.  

My recommendations stem from my personality and my philosophy about longrange fishing.  If you are goin out there to catch some fish, have some fun, do some 12oz curls and just get away from it all, take my tackle recommendations with a grain of salt.  I treat every piece of tackle like it is the 40# setup that is going to hook that stray 140# BFT that is swimming with the 30-40 pounders.  Yes I over-think everything.  Yes "good enough" isn't good enough for me.  Yes I know it's a problem.  









BUT I am no where near as afflicted with this issue as Alan is.  The dude has me saying "really...., you need THIS much gear?!" every time I go to his house hahahaha


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: BMITCH on January 10, 2015, 06:04:21 AM
Jon, this is EXACTLY how I feel about the overnight trips we do to the NE canyons in the fall. All the other fishing done from Dec. to the following Aug. is just filling time. Don't get me wrong. I like to fish for other species that inhabit the inshore waters, but tuna in the canyons IMHO can't be beat. I went three years before last years outings without even stepping on a boat. Family med issues and such was a time suck. This year my first trip was in Oct. to the canyons. We were very fortunate to get our trips in with the weather windows that were presented to us. We were also EXTREMLY fortunate that the tuna gods decided to smile on us. So good things DO come to those who wait. I too, am a mumbling, stumbling idiot a few days before a trip.
 As far as tackle is concerned...almost anything you are lucky enough to hook can be landed on these trips with a 6/0 star drag. Unless you got something on your line with TRUELY broad shoulders( bigeye,200# bft, large sword) than you may be under gunned. I would like that opportunity though. I will go with 7/8 set ups on an 24 hr trip. Been there and done that when you have just the right setup in hand. Better than knowing you left it over 100 miles away on dry land. My wife thinks I have a girlfriend going fishing with me due to all the tackle.lol. We fishermen love to collect things. And having just the right equipment is, in my book, priceless!
  So you can minimalist it by bringing a select few rods(3/0 would and will cover 80 percent of most situations) or you can bring as much "stuff" as you think necessary!

This being said...I will most likely always own a truck to get to the boat! ;D ;D


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: johndtuttle on January 10, 2015, 07:52:00 AM
Heheh we gotta get Sal LR fishing sometime.  ;D

5 straight days and nights of fishing typically on a 7 day. You are in the water essentially as long as you can stay awake many days. And you haven't done any "real" fishing in over a year so the motivation is high.

Picture day 4 at Alijos Rocks: After 15 hours of pulling on Yellowtail and Tuna with the odd grouper now and then coming over the rail from predawn until dusk that dropper loop rig with the nice modern low geared 2-speed starts really shining. Feels like you can barely lift it to set it on the rail to soak a frisky mac after dinner but you can't resist getting in the water. Down she goes because Cappy says there are marks under the boat.

Why keep fishing? Because you are 200 miles off shore of remotest Baja California at anchor at one of the best fishing holes on earth and there are 100lb Grouper/100lb YFT or 60lb Yellowtail  potentially under the boat, that's why! And it might be years before you are back!

Without the modern 2-speed dropper loop set up in your quiver odds are you watch other guys fish as otherwise you just don't have the energy. Those low gears keep you fishing longer.

 ;)


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Alto Mare on January 10, 2015, 08:23:39 AM
 ;D ;D, John, I would love to share a boat with you, maybe one day.  You know, I'm serious about the 14/0, it is one of my dream... we can only hope. ;)

A while back, I sent a couple of emails to Captain Marciano from Wicked Tuna about me trying to get on his boat.
I mentioned that I would bring a few vintage reels that I've customized, I wanted to see what they could do, I told him that I would leave them there, he never answered. :-\ He probably said this guy is nuts. ;D

No worries though, me and Broadway will put together a trip  here in the Northeast, where only vintage reels are allowed. ;D


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Aiala on January 10, 2015, 09:00:45 AM
Heheh we gotta get Sal LR fishing sometime.  ;D
Ain't that the truth!  ;)

Picture day 4 at Alijos Rocks: After 15 hours of pulling on Yellowtail and Tuna with the odd grouper now and then coming over the rail from predawn until dusk that dropper loop rig with the nice modern 2-speed starts really shining. Feels like you can barely lift it to set it on the rail to soak a frisky mac after dinner but you can't resist getting in the water. Down she goes because cappy says there are marks under the boat.
It's absolutely true. Alijos is beyond extraordinary... just seeing it is an awesome experince. But getting there on a 7-day is a real crapshoot; when the fish cooperate, it can be the ultimate angling jackpot, but if not, you've spent thousands for a loooong boat ride there and back.   :-\

And it might be years before you are back!

For me, it's been fifteen years.  >:( That is simply unacceptable, and I am determined to get back there within the year. Life slips by much too quickly to miss out on such a one-of-a-kind adventure.  8)

~A~


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: MarkT on January 10, 2015, 09:46:04 AM
On my 10 day that left on 9/27 the largest fish was a 52# wahoo caught at the rocks. The YT, YFT and Dorado were 10-30# with the wahoo being 30-50#. A good 30# or 40# rig was all that was really needed for bait and a 40-50# for yoyo. Sal would've been fine with a tricked out Jigmaster 501, 500 and YTS. This year? We'll see!


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Bryan Young on January 10, 2015, 10:14:34 AM
Wait, did I see Avets in your line up?

I thought you didn't like Avets.


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: johndtuttle on January 10, 2015, 10:25:13 AM
On my 10 day that left on 9/27 the largest fish was a 52# wahoo caught at the rocks. The YT, YFT and Dorado were 10-30# with the wahoo being 30-50#. A good 30# or 40# rig was all that was really needed for bait and a 40-50# for yoyo. Sal would've been fine with a tricked out Jigmaster 501, 500 and YTS. This year? We'll see!

O for sure, just whetting Sal's appetite with how it *can* play out, but certainly doesn't always. ;D

I have posted plenty on all that is strictly required on most trips to land tonnage. And there is a lot to be gained by mastering a simple rig.

I have also posted on many forums that "You should always have something heavy in the rack" an almost any trip. It's the Pacific Ocean and there are still very big fish out there.

I might be tempted to fish that quality 3/0 star drag an entire 7 day and it would probably land 100% of the fish on 95% of the trips.

But I would never go offshore without something heavy in the rack. Even in NorCal I have seen reels spooled by UFO (Unidentified Fish Objects) when out trolling for 20lb Albacore. I don't troll with 3/0 reels any more :).


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Keta on January 10, 2015, 10:26:27 AM
I don't go hunting for elephants with a mouse rifle and tend to fish and bring gear capable of dealing with fish on the high end of "average" for when/where I'm fishing.  On 15 day trips my bait maker rigs are 40lb and my wahoo rigs are 40lb and 60lb.  I went on a 10 day trip and never fished anything less than 80lb, most of the time we used 130lb.  On that trip I landed 2 over 200, several in the 60-195 pound range and the wahoo below, because I had the right selection of gear for the trip.  

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/Fish/WahooSM.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/Fish/WahooSM.jpg.html)

Then there is days when you can even use 25#.

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/Fish/09RRIII038.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/Fish/09RRIII038.jpg.html)(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/YTV.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IGFA19Keta/media/YTV.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Alto Mare on January 10, 2015, 10:30:39 AM
Not comparing manufacturers, but I think the triple series would really perform nicely on that trip, that reel is only 1 lb 6oz in weight and packs lots of drag.
One speed will kick you butt, a couple of years ago, a 50T single speed put me out of commission for two weeks.


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Islandgypsy on January 10, 2015, 01:08:41 PM
Leaving end of month on 15 days in the lower zone. This is whats stacked by the door. Looks like a lot of stuff but just enough to get the job done with the minimum amount of gear, not my first rodeo. It's easy to gt carried away on a longer trip but one actually needs less tackle than a shorter trip where you have more species and methods, line weights, hook sizes, jigs etc. Longer trips are really a two fish trip...bigger YFT and Wahoo. 

 A few wahoo jig outfits with high speed reels and bombs,raiders,jigs. 2-3 tuna two speeds w/ 130# and appropriate terminal tackle and a 40#bait making rig , and you're good to go..BUT I'm with you Jon, that list keeps getting longer every year and the anticipation is half the fun.   GB

(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m88/Islandgypsy01/1c737eec28a68cb6a2236946142dc20c_zpsbd769220.jpg)



Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: MarkT on January 10, 2015, 02:52:13 PM
I just got back from the Longfin. I got some Owner solid rings (7.5 size) for rigging up knife jigs, a Salas 7x lite in a 'cool' bleeding Mac color, hey it doesn't have to catch fish, just fishermen!, a blue/white 7X heavy and a Penn Fathom 25NLD2. There went the Christmas money!  I guess I should sell my JX 6/3 now but probably not. At least there's now a Penn in my starting lineup!  

I also ran into Tony Garza of Soft Steel and David Choate, Wahoodad, long ranger extraordinaire, while I was there too. I've fished with David before and was a moderator with him on Allcoast (I was the tackle board and he was long range moderator) back when that meant something.


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Islandgypsy on January 10, 2015, 03:33:45 PM
Never stops,does it Mark ;D


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: MarkT on January 10, 2015, 04:04:06 PM
Nope, but why would you want it to?


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Jon Vadney on January 10, 2015, 04:14:45 PM
Islandgypsy, that picture is a thing of beauty haha.

Also, part of what makes longrange so enjoyable to so many people is that you can make the trip what you want.  If you work a super high-stress job and you want to turn the phone off for a week and fish, drink and gamble with your buddies, you can do that!  If you want to sleep 3-6 hrs a day and break that up into 2 or 3 "sleeping shifts" so you can maximize your time at the rail, you can do that too.  It's all up to you what you want out of your vacation.

The one thing I think that should also be mentioned is that you could show up with nothing but your clothing, get all of your tackle from the boat, and do just fine.  In fact, there are plenty of fisherman who have their own gear but do it this way because they live far (other side of the country) from San Diego. The boats have really good rental gear.


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Islandgypsy on January 10, 2015, 05:19:54 PM
Thats all so true. You can fish til you drop, or read a good book and catch up on your sleep. An how many times does someone on their first trip catch the lunker ? "I'd rather be lucky than good" is a popular expression on these trips. Though if I had one piece of advice it would always be " forget what you think you know and listen to the crew and skipper".  

And like Lee espouses , stay with the heavy stuff...when you are having  fun catching 100# school tuna on 60 and 80# that's when a couple or three 200-300 pound cows breeze through and mess up your whole day!  You never know what will eat your next bait.  GB


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: SoCalAngler on January 10, 2015, 07:35:28 PM
Most if not all has been covered in this thread as far as rods and reels go for long range trips but I'd like to add just a little.

When people that have never been on a long range trip think about maybe taking one and they think about gearing up many look to the boats recommendations on what gear to take. This is a good starting point but most boats list everything that (may) be needed on trips the length the angler is looking to go on. This gear list will range widely on any possible catches from years past to what may be working the time the person schedules their trip. This can be daunting to a newbie in terms of cost and how the heck can any one person get so much gear to a boat when traveling to SD by airplane.

I too have came to a minimalist approach when I go long and for me that has never been anything over 8 days on a boat. I did take my first long range trip when I was either 14 or 15 years old (a 6 day trip) and now I'm 50.

 Wow has gear changed over that time and how it is used. No more is it a must to send your reels to Cal's Two Speed so he can do his magic giving you a fighting chance to land truly big fish from a LR boat (though his team does amazing work on reels if you want it), connecting your rod and reel to a backup rig and tossing it overboard while hoping and praying you get your setup back, strapping yourself onto a harness hoping you don't get pulled overboard or jumping onto a skiff in less than ideal weather chasing down the large tuna you hooked wondering if this is the smartest thing to do.

The biggest advances I have see over the years that are true game changers are the use of spectra/braided lines and more manufactures designing reels to handle big game, whatever game your chasing. Without these two the push for innovation to gain market share would be more limited IMO to the development of our sport.

Furthermore if your flying in to go on a long range boat your options are more open than ever before. No longer is it a must to ride on the best fleet in the world to catch world class fish. If you choose you can fly down to Baja, Puerto Vallarta, Costa Rica or were ever your hart desires. This puts you in range of these fish without the long boat rides.  

Ok off on a bit of a tangent, let me get back to gear. I'm a firm believer in less gear so I can afford more trips. I like to have backups for my most used rods and reels on any given trip. Also I take gear that can cover more bases, lets say 40 to 50 lb reels will be used most, matched to 6.5-7' rods, with 2 setups in this line class I can fish flylined bait, dropper loop, yoyo iron and use these for wahoo be it bombs/iron or metal leader bait. I will have these rigged up differently depending on what we may encounter on any given day and I can change these setups quickly if needed to. With these two setups and one 60-80 lb trolling outfit I have covered about 95% of the type of fishing I do.

Now when you get into longer trips over 10 days bigger gear is a must but you don't need to have backups as most of the boats and landing have loaner gear up to the task. Heck if you don't have, want to bring or buy any of these contact the landing or boat and let them know what you need and I'm sure the boats out of San Diego can cover your bases.  

Now what brings up cost and having more gear is the "specialty" setups, like using only one setup for yoyo fishing and another for dropper loop maybe another for wahoo bombs or iron and heck through in another for live bait. Having them all rigged and ready is very nice for the different types of fishing methods but it is not a must.


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Islandgypsy on January 10, 2015, 08:05:48 PM
Spot on SoCal..anymore I/ we use the boats kite and trolling rigs and just bring anything we are partial to tie on. Pretty much all the LR fleet has state of the art loaner outfits for those in need. Tackle manufactureres often provide gear on LR boats as the ultimate " acid  test" as what works and holds up and what needs re- engineering.    GB


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: Robert Janssen on January 11, 2015, 03:12:16 AM
Quote from: MarkT
... and was a moderator with him on Allcoast (I was the tackle board and he was long range moderator) back when that meant something.

It still does, Mark.

.


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: BrianBM on January 19, 2015, 05:50:55 PM
BMitch, I agree with you completely.  The NE partyboat tuna trips rarely, rarely see a fish that couldn't be handled quite adequately with a 6/0 or even a 40 reel and 60 lb. mono.  Keeping tabs on boat reports, it's a rare day when the pool fish exceeds 100 lb.

Why, then, have my prior posts largely been about sending a 16 Int'l II to Cal? And a 30SW to the other gent who was doing the "Free Spooler" on Int'l reels? My wife would like to know.   ;D

 ....... becuz I watched a sword that weighed in at 275 take a Senator 9/0 down to the bottom of the spool.  And, having seen that, I want one.   :)


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: BMITCH on January 19, 2015, 06:29:59 PM
BrianBM, a sword at 275# is a chore on an 80W 2spd. Let alone a single speed 9/0. That being said I can't imagine all the gear I would bring on a 10-16 day trip. I get great satisfaction in fishing my own set ups and would most likely have waaaaay to much gear going.  These left coast guys have this wired and I have nothing but the utmost respect and admiration for the innovations they have brought to the table over the years. Some day I hope to have the chance to get on one of those trips too see first hand. If that ever happens I'm gonna have to rent the tackle. ;) ;D


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: MarkT on January 19, 2015, 07:02:50 PM
The other gent was Larry Cofeen with his Cofe Free Spooler. I don't know if he's still around.


Title: Re: Long range arsenal
Post by: David Hall on February 13, 2015, 11:23:19 PM
Looks like I'm gonna need a bigger boat!  :(