Well it is winter again, my worst time of year. I would prefer to go to sleep and wake up in April but since I am not a Bear, I must endure the winter consciously. So I get into projects. One of my new writing projects will be to do a series of articles for the Reel News (the bi-monthly publication of ORCA) on vintage Ocean City reels but I also wanted to do fishing reel project and wouldn't you know, I got one of the best deals of my fishing reel hobby lifetime this week.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/CustomPenn113H--4-OpartsfromTomSelby002676x507_zps84a474d2.jpg)
A friend of mine came into a bunch of stuff at a bargain basement price and passed these parts to me for $75.00. A price I could not refuse, so here I am now faced with a dilemma. I have nothing to go with these parts, so, I have to start accumulating only the best internals and externals to go into this Model 113H narrow frame Accurate Senator.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/CustomPenn113H--4-OpartsfromTomSelby001676x507_zps273ccdf0.jpg)
Now, the first thing I says to myself is, ""Self, where are the best Penn reel builders you have run into in the last ten years??? ::)" Just then the light bulb comes on in head and the name """Alan Tani""" start flashing before my eyes.
So I am going to post this reel as I accumulate parts for it and build it into what I want to be a Tank of a reel and a fine display piece, because in all honesty, I will probably never fish it. I have enough fishing gear for two lifetimes but I never have enough specialty stuff.
So, this is the beginning. What I am hoping for here is to find out if there are special internals (like a double dog bridge or stainless steel jacks and yokes) available for this particular reel that will work in Accurate plates. I know Penn stock parts will work because that is the spec the plates are built to take, but I would like to know if I can go higher end than stock, just because I want to create a total custom.
Here is the first part I have bought. I have not even received it yet but it is my beginning.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/CustomHandleKnobforcustomPennAccurate113H800x600_zpsad1a95db.jpg)
There is no rush about this project. I do not care how long it takes to get together, I just want it to be special and I know I am the right place for the ideas I need to make it that way.
Thanks in Advance for what is to come.
Hey Mike,
That's a steal of a deal ya got, congrats! Sal, will be able to really set you up with the fine details, but I'll give ya what I got....
The handle is a good start. Take a look at Alan's delrin grips and Lee and Adam's handles. Then of course I might know where you could find an original Accurate handle, too.
I'm not sure if Adam is still making the star drags, but if he is grab one.
I don't think the double dogged bridge has passed Sal's testing yet, but when it does grab one, until then you can always grab a SS dog from Lee or just wait a bit.
You wanna grab a SS gear set and SS yoke from Black Pearl (Alan C)
Next is Bryan's 7+1 drag.
Lastly, a delrin washer for under the main gear. If you PM me your address I'll send you one. (Sal made me a bunch)
That should do it for my end. I'm sure the big boys can take it from there if I missed anything. Just don't forget to sand the back of the ss yoke.
All you need now is another job for all these goodies... blame Alan C and Sal. ;)
Enjoy the build you got a great start,
Dom
Mike --
If I can help with any NOS stock Penn internal parts -- let me know, and I will ship them to you, N/C.
Others on this board will also step up to help you on your project -- just post a laundry list of what you need.
We appreciate all you do.
Best,
Fred
Wow! Very nice price on that set! I didn't see a spool there. Did it come with one? If not I would go with tiburon, as I really like their spools. If you want accurate than Randy (Vintage Offshore Tackle) will probably have one.
A list of things I would do is this.
- SS sleeve
- SS double dog bridge as mentioned (not out yet but will be soon enough)
- SS gears from Alan C.
- I would opt. For the hex drag insert here as might as well go all out
- SS yoke from Dawn at smooth drag.
- If you need bearings Dawn has nice SS ABEC 5 bearings as well
- There is no SS eccentric jack/ spring or anything that I know of. Fred can hook you up with all of that.
Well hope this helps!! Can't wait to see the end result!
Wow, I knew I was in the right place, but, like I said, there is no hurry. I am bidding on a Newell spool for this reel. Normally I like Newell spools, I have used them before on other customs that I have built. Accurate spools are fine too. If I do not win the Newell spool, then I will search out an Accurate in a cool color. Even if I win the Newell spool, which is sort of a boring black color but I feel is a high quality product, I may still go with a fancier color accurate spool just for the WOW factor in the final result.
It seems there are some designs in progress at this time. One particular upgrade I would like to do is the double dog bridge. I want to do that because it is something that has a very important place in fishing reel design history. I am going to put in a couple of pictures right now.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Figure8_zps73051cc9.jpg)Notice the double dog anti-reverse system in this reel. It is a design concept that was in place in the early 1920's and was used in some of the first big game reels ever made.(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Figure9_zps462242c1.jpg) The drag system you are looking at in these photo is used in a Ocean City Orlando model from 1929. The drag and anti-reverse system actually pre-dates the Ocean City reel back to the early 1920's when many makers were trying to come up with a big game reel that did not send fisherman to the Tuna Hospital, as it was then called. This early drag used a drag washer on each side of the main gear and a double dog assembly the insure and more positive anti-reverse system
So, a double dog bridge is important to me because it will bring my modern day Accurate 113H back to the original build style of the 1920's that was shelved for monetary reasons by the makers of those days. I was happy to see the double dog system brought back here in this forum. I thought it was historically dead.
So, this build should be great fun. Who knows where it will go?
Newell spools are great spools! Wow the history you bring to this forum is amazing! Thank you for sharing! Looks like we are a 109 years behind ;)
I am very happy to share the history. Most people just glaze over when I start talking about the history of fishing reel design. It is good to feel that someone actually cares.
QuoteI'm not sure if Adam is still making the star drags, but if he is grab one.
I am not sure if Adam is still making star wheels for the masses but he offered to make me one at a very reasonable price, so my second part is under construction. He seems to make a very impressive star wheel according to the post he referred me to. I think this place is amazing. The people here have their own little private fishing reel hot rod shop.........................<:O)
The star us VERY nice! He made me one with a mirror finish! Beautiful!
I knew I forgot something (thanks Fishstix)... The SS gear sleeve is a must!
The hex insert is very cool if you like to cut your own washers but if you want stock I'd go with Bryan's washers.
Wow! I would have never guessed that double dogging is over 100 years old. Mike, your history lessons won't fall on deaf ears here, pal ;)
Have fun with the build,
Dom
We are all listening Mike. Don't think we are not. I will use a pic instead of a list. I only built one tank.
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/IMG_2003_zpsc3021774.jpg)
I used a Tiburon kit that came with the spool from the boss. If that accurate kit were mine, I would go for a Red Spool.
I Love the Iron Man look! ;)
I'm going to update the drags to Hex. I have an Insert from Lee.
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/IMG_2009_zps499de5b7.jpg)
I forgot the inner rings in the that Picture.
I thought it was like a WEX kit that didn't use them. ::)
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/twotanks_zpsb1be0524.jpg)
I kind of knew that all the people on this website would be way ahead of me in terms of upgrading the 113H.
Daron, thanks for posting those pictures. After seeing that, I surfed around the forum and found the thread that discussed the double dog installations on the 113H and became drawn into reading the entire thread. http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=11962.0
I am now going to be one of the people that wants the double dog bridge assembly for my Accurate plates. If I had not seen the research and development going on to make this special bridge plate become a reality, I would have wanted to add the second dog the way you did to your reel. But,,,,, now I know (Because of you Daron) and I want the double dog bridge. So I guess I am just one more on the list, which is where I want to be.
It seems I have unintentionally stumbled into a very interesting series of engineering events after I stumbled into a very cool reel that perfectly fits into these events. If I keep stumbling around like this, we may just find the proverbial Missing Link here!!
Mike that's all fine and dandy, but this guy started it all here :
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3077.msg19705#msg19705
and here:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3083.0
;D
QuoteMike that's all fine and dandy, but this guy started it all here :
Sal,
I see you are the Thomas Edison of this place. I am impressed with the innovation you bring to these pages. Keep those wheels turning, new ideas are always needed.
I also see many other interesting minds at work here. I am glad to be a part of this group. :)
Mike, I'm just a little pebble here, some of these guys are amazing. You will see it for yourself soon enough.
By the way, did I mention that it has been great having you here with us? Thanks for all you do.
Sal
Michaeal, thanks for the double dog history lesson. Very cool stuff
Very nice indeed, but you really should reconsider never fishing the reel.
just might turn out to be the lucky one.
QuoteVery nice indeed, but you really should reconsider never fishing the reel.
just might turn out to be the lucky one.
In all honesty, every time I make a plan, some dog rubs up against me. As soon as I put the plan in motion, that dog bites me ??? and makes me go another way. So, I really do not know what I will do with this reel when it is done. :-\
My regular Penn rig, that goes with me on almost every fishing trip, is a Jigmaster 500 mounted into a Neptuna Cradle. I have a love affair with that rig. Been using it for a few years. I intended to change the reel in it to Accurate side plates but then I loose the quick change spool option, so my Cradle Jigmaster rig is staying the same and this very cool 113H has taken the place of the Winter Project.
In case you are not familiar with Cradle Reels, here is a Penn 349HC I built into a Neptuna Cradle.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Cradle%20Reels/NeptunaCradlePenn349HCwithRollerGuideLightTackleRod003640x480_zpsc3f14bd7.jpg)
This one I do not fish, it is a wall hangar. For many years I have chosen cradle reels as my favorite custom rigs but they are almost impossible to find today, so I am moving to a full Accurate conversion for this winters hobby.
With the knowledge I gain here building this 113H, I intend to upgrade my cradle rigs in the future, but that is a story for another thread.
So, who knows, maybe I will fish this reel, right now my considerations are to build it special, the future of it is undecided.
I Saw one of those Cradles a while back on ebay and had no idea what it was. Now I Know! ;D
QuoteI Saw one of those Cradles a while back on ebay and had no idea what it was. Now I Know! Grin
They have been around since the 1950's but were too expensive for the market. Their price was their downfall.
So they bolt to the reel like a half frame?
Don't think that reel seat is gonna be prone to twisting failure under side loads. Pretty cool looking too!
These cradle rigs are rock solid. The cradle, rod and reel become one integral unit but they are history.
If enough members are interested, I can start another thread about cradle reels but we will be moving deep into fishing history if we go that way. Cradle reels date back to the 1920's in big game fishing and go up to 16/O reels and sometimes even larger. The Neptuna cradles are probably the last ones made after a long history by many different brands. They were fairly common fifty years ago.
Man!
I wish I would have bought that cradle now. It was for a 10/0 and I'll probably never see one again.
It didn't have a rod handle or anything attached to it, that's what confused me. I thought it was for a boat rail or something.
QuoteI wish I would have bought that cradle now. It was for a 10/0 and I'll probably never see one again.
It didn't have a rod handle or anything attached to it, that's what confused me. I thought it was for a boat rail or something.
I know Daron, they look kind of weird when they do not have a reel mounted in them.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Cradle%20Reels/DSC00088_zps4a660560.jpg)
This one was for an International 80.
It is complete now but I got it with only the cradle. I believe I have only seen one other made in this size.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Cradle%20Reels/DSC00110_zps7191aaf6.jpg)
When I bought it, it was in a bundle of other stuff and it was new without any handle or locking ferrule. They are very difficult to come by in the large sizes. They have basically disappeared. About ten years ago a bunch of them were discovered and went up for sale online. They were coming up pretty regular but not lately. When they do come up today they sell in the $200 to $300 range.
I will keep a watch for you, if I see one come up I will let you know but no promises. They have kind of gone underground lately.
Mike,
Now you're really in Vintage Hot Rod show & tell. Your Large International Neptuna is a rare beauty.
Sharkhunter,
I remember that Neptuna cradle . It did not have any holes to bolt in the reel and the rod retaining mechanism was also missing. It sold for big dollars too. I know you like the 12/0 Senators so you are bound to like this .
I have only seen one other in the 12/0 size. Complete cradle with 12/0 Senator . Below , on the left is a 12/0 from the early 50's fitted to a polished Neptuna cradle. The others are a 9/0 of same era and a 6/0. The 9/0 and smaller cradles are easier to find but they are not common.
(http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/kingfisher57/ce2375ab-3a0f-4974-9993-a53c0b7723d5.jpg) (http://s1130.photobucket.com/user/kingfisher57/media/ce2375ab-3a0f-4974-9993-a53c0b7723d5.jpg.html)
How small did they go? Jigmaster 500 has been mentioned - are they more common than the larger senators? I like the idea of a 'low profile' 349 as well, it's a pity they are so rare.
The smallest one I have had was sized for a Penn 180
I REALLY want one now for the 9/0 build Im doing!! I wonder if I could stumble on one. Then see if I could have a rod built for it, would be AWESOME!
Looking forward to seeing the build of your 113hn!
QuoteInsert Quote
I REALLY want one now for the 9/0 build Im doing!! I wonder if I could stumble on one. Then see if I could have a rod built for it, would be AWESOME!
As far as I know, the only 9/O Neptuna I have ever seen is the one that Superhook posted a picture of. I hesitated to start talking about these cradles because they have become sort or rare and when they pop up today, the auctions get really hot, but they were made for quite a few years, so they show up from time to time.
Believe it or not, at the Penn Estate auction of 2003, a few Neptuna rigs were saved in the Penn factory and were part of the auction,. So there was a collaboration between Penn and Neptuna but I have never been able to document it. Neptuna also made cradles that were built to fit Fin-Nor and Everol big game reels.
But, back to the 113 build up. While I am waiting for parts for this Accurate 113, I also decided to put together a 1981 50th Anniversary year, 113HL reel. Parts for this old 113HL are coming from many different places. When this reel is done it will not be mint but it will be nice.
More to come on my 113 adventures when I take some more photos..
A cradle for a large Everol or old school FinNor big game reel would be awesome! We appreciate you sharing your wealth of knowledge once again. It is always tempting to keep knowledge of rare and valuable collectables to a select few of those 'in the know', but on the other hand sharing this knowledge more freely may actually help to save some of these gems. It would be nice to think that anyone who runs across an old, rare, collectable, an valuable piece of history will exercise good judgement and do the right thing. But unfortunately this is not always the case. Hording treasures in secrecy, is not necessarily the wrong thing, mind you, provide the history is preserved. The preservation us the important thing, sharing knowledge, and spreading appreciation or value can be a means to achieve the preservation.
Just a few personal thoughts on the matter.
I will keep my eye out for one! What material were these made of? Also, thank you for the history you share! You definitely have come to the right place, to share your knowledge!
The Neptuna cradles are cast from good quality Aluminium which are machined at the side plate faces and thread taped for the side plate screws. Not cheap bubbly dross.
Superhook is right. Neptuna cradles are built to aircraft casting standards. Very high grade casting. They were basically too good! I will start another post about cradle reels in a while but now::
Now I want to move to what I am doing today and make a special Thank You to some of the Good People that reside in these pages. This thread started with a good deal on some Accurate parts but that deal happened while other things were also happening. These other happenings wind up relating to a series of events that have turned into a pleasurable experience for me.
If I remember right, one of the people here ( I do not want to say his name is Ted, so I will not ) sends me a picture of a very mint 114HL with a Red Spool and double chrome plated cross bars. Now in my world, this is a very modern reel. Please remember anything after the 1960's is considered modern by me.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Senators/1981AnniversaryPennSenator114HL1088x816_zpsb1b73979.jpg)
So as I am looking at this beautiful Penn reel, which is reminding me of Dom's Red 9/O, and Ted calls this model a 50th Anniversary Model. In my collector world, I do not study modern reels unless there is something special about them. Anniversary models are special but I find it curious that I do not know about this model. To me there is only one 50th Anniversary model and one of them is in my small collection.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Senators/198250thAnniversaryPennInternational50reelampwoodbox005480x640_zps2ca137f4.jpg)
So now I must go to the catalog to find out why I do not know about this reel. I know there a Special High Speed Senator but I did not think there were special ones. I go to the 50th Anniversary catalog
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Senators/1981--82PennCatalogfrontcover--50thAnniversaryYears1251x1625_zpsef61b7fb.jpg) and search out the special ""Ted Reel"". There it is, in all its glory, a fancy Penn Senator High Speed reel and there is not only one like Ted's, but there are two others.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Senators/1981--82PennCatalogScansofHighSpeedSenatorswithChromeBarsandRedSpool--2826x1072_zps28cbbedf.jpg) and in this catalog is another page talking about these new models (http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Senators/1981--82PennCatalogScansofHighSpeedSenatorswithChromebarsampRedspool--1826x1072_zpscf5ae2ab.jpg)
Now I am saying to myself. "Why don't I know about these great reels?" and then it hits me. Sure they are in the Anniversary catalog with the same very special International 50 Anniversary reel but Penn did not call them anniversary reels. Most people assume because they were introduced with special chrome bars and red spools in an Anniversary catalog that they must be Anniversary reels. Makes sense! Right? ??? ??? Sure it does, so from now on, I will call them Anniversary reels and I decided to go right to my favorite online auction site and buy one.
>:( >:( >:( WRONG !!! These things are no where to be found. Another flash goes off in my head, these may wind up being very hard to find as time goes by and I do not have one. I suddenly realize that my life is no longer fulfilled. :'( :'( I must have one of these reels and I cannot find one.
What do I do now??? What is the next best thing to do when you cannot find the whole thing. I decide I am going to look for pieces of one of these reels, so I start looking through dozens of parts listings and what do you know. I find a ""Buy It Now" for $25 plus a couple of bucks shipping for a set of these;
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Senators/1981PennHighSpeedSenator113HL--parts018432x576_zps7ee70db8.jpg) so I jump on these bars and win them. Now I own two double chrome plated cross bars and nothing else. :-\
As these life changing events unfold for me, a friend of mine from down in Maryland gets a great deal on some Accurate parts and he wants to include me in the deal. I happen to know that this gentleman has many old small Penn Senators. It is his hobby to find them and restore them, so when he makes me the offer about the Accurate parts, I decide to try to create a bundle deal and ask him if he has a Red Senator High Speed 113HL to go with my wonderful, not quite perfect 113HL Chrome Cross Bars.
wouldn't you know it, this guy comes up with an old dark maroon 113H that is a bit beat looking but all internals are new and he has a set of 113HL Red Side plates with very nice trim rings. So we bundle these parts into the Accurate deal and I am off to putting my 50th Anniversary 113HL reel together. Here's what I have. The time has come for me to get MODERN!!!!
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Senators/1981PennHighSpeedSenator113HL--parts0051024x768_zps8f925740.jpg)
and that is not all::
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Senators/1981PennHighSpeedSenator113HL--parts002768x1024_zpsb7baa52e.jpg)
The time has come for me to add this great Anniversary reel to my collection. I build it all up and wouldn't you know. Some little part is missing.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Senators/1981-82PennSenator113HL--4-0--HighSpeedSenator0041024x768_zpsc2c0d521.jpg)
It sure looks pretty but I can feel something is very wrong.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Senators/1981-82PennSenator113HL--4-0--HighSpeedSenator0111024x768_zpseea464f4.jpg)
As I sit and scratch my """HEAD""", that old flash happens again. I do not have a spool!! ??? ??? Sure I have the old ugly spool from the dark maroon reel but I cannot use that. Now what do I do??
First thing that come to my mind is the guy that started me on this journey to misadventure. That guy that lives where the sun don't shine, where it is always raining but the fishing is phenomenal and that guy's name is Ted. So I email Ted and ask him to please sell me a Red 113H Aluminum spool. Wouldn't you know it, the guy that started this whole mess for me does not have the spool to sell me so I can finish my new Anniversary, not, reel.............................. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
But, in all honesty, Ted gives me a clue. He tells me that living on the side of the country that I live is a man. A very nice generous man and that man's name is Sal. He says that Sal may have a Red Spool for my reel and Ted was finally right about something. Sal did have a Red spool for my reel and Sal was more generous that I could have possibly imagined. He made me an offer that I could not refuse. ""Italians do that you know""" ;) and I now have what I need:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Senators/1981-82PennSenator113HL--4-0--HighSpeedSenator0261024x768_zps938cfb6b.jpg)
After all this I now have my almost an anniversary 113HL and I love it. It is not perfect but it runs smooth as silk and it nice enough for me. I will never sell this reel. The story that goes with it and the good people that helped me get it together make it priceless.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Senators/1981-82PennSenator113HL--4-0--HighSpeedSenator0301024x768_zps04cc1482.jpg)
Thanks Ted, CT in Maryland and Sal. You guys are great.
PS--------------------Sal also helped me out with some Stainless Steel parts for my Accurate Project. Thanks Again for the Sal.
I hope this works.
Here is one
http://m.ebay.com/itm/381095420023?nav=SEARCH
I have seen red spool 113's on ebay before, but merely assumed they were tiburon or accurate spools. Not knowing it would be a treasure trove of history. Thats for the lesson!!!
Awesome post Mike! ;D
Thanks Guys............ :)
What an awesome post and great read! The members of this site are always a great asset in a build like that! That definitely belongs in your collection! Only if you you were able to find those SS gears that came with that reel. I'll keep an Eye out for you!
QuoteWhat an awesome post and great read! The members of this site are always a great asset in a build like that! That definitely belongs in your collection! Only if you you were able to find those SS gears that came with that reel. I'll keep an Eye out for you!
The Stainless gears would have been nice but not necessary. The reel runs nice the way it is. If I ever run across them I will change them out but having a bronze gear instead of a stainless gear is no where as near as bad as having No Spool................<:O)
I thought it was interesting the way Penn displays the gear set in the photo with the cutaway bridge. An interesting post might have the topic of cutaway Penn reels. There have been many of them and Penn is still doing that today. They are done in very limited numbers, go to specially selected tackle shops and very likely get displayed at Trade Shows. They wind up being very interesting collectibles.
Anyways, Glad you enjoyed the story of my 113HL. I will be getting back to the Accurate 4/O.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on January 13, 2015, 03:02:57 AM
Awesome post Mike! ;D
yup! gonna send the man a wrench! ;D
Quoteyup! gonna send the man a wrench! Grin
Well I do not know what I did to deserve a wrench but I sure like the idea of a nice wrench.
Thanks Alan
So now that I have told my 113HL Anniversary reel story, I will moving back into the Accurate 113. I have acquired a few more parts, so I am getting closer to starting to think about the assembly process but then not really.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate113Hparts--SSgearsampyoke003768x1024_zpsba8e72df.jpg)
Thanks to Sal, I now have a
Stainless Steel 4 to 1 gear set, stainless steel yoke and a Delrin washer for under the main gear. My fancy handle has arrived in the mail but my heart is still set on the double dog bridge that is still not available. I know I can do this reel with a single dog or possibly and double dog off the screws but now that I have seen the video I am sold and am willing to wait.
I have already pictured a double dog anti-reverse from a 1920's vintage Ocean City Orlando but Ocean City was not the only double dog design. One of the most famous of all reel makers was Edward Vom Hofe. The Vom Hofe family started making fishing reels soon after the Civil War, yup, I mean the original Civil War back when our country was really confused between Right and Wrong over 150 years ago.
So the Vom Hofe family had a lot of Reel Building Seniority. In the early days of the 20th Century, one of the son's of the company founder started getting really serious about saltwater fishing reel design and by the 1930's, was building works of art they called fishing reels. These works of art were all made by hand, one at a time. One of those Edward Vom Hofe reels was named the Commander Ross and it was a big reel.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/100_0348_zps9de83192.jpg)
This Edward Vom Hofe creation was sized at 14/O but was probably closer to a modern day 16/O in dimensions. Pictured here is a Super Reel restored by Superhook aka Ray from the little continent known as Australia, or fondly known to me as OZ. Ray did a meticulous job on this reel, it was a mess when he got it but Ray took this reel down to the bare bones and kept me in the loop, so well, that I wrote an article about the restoration when it was done and published that article in the ORCA publication known as the Reel News in 2011.
Anyways, I digress, my point in bringing this reel up is that is has a very interesting main gear and anti-reverse for its age. The main gear has a drag washer on each side and a roller bearing sleeve that brings the drag pressure from the star wheel to the discs.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/100_0296_zps21be8a4b.jpg)
By the way, if you turn the reel over those little rollers will fall right out, all over the floor and cause an extremely intense head ache while you are looking all over the shop to gather up these totally impossible to replace little tiny roller bearings.
Now, it is time to remove the main gear, under that gear are the anti-reverse dogs.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/100_0287_zps9d4130de.jpg)
This is early 20th Century design. So, if they could do it by hand in the 1920's and 1930's, I know I have to have it in my special Winter Project. That's why I am willing to wait.
And on that note, I have to go to sleep before I fall of my chair.
Mike, that was fast, I'm glad it made it to you... it was my pleasure.
Good luck with that beauty, we're here if you need anything else.
Sal
Thank you Sal. The support here is amazing...............
Wow I will definitely be following this thread. The shear wealth of knowledge and history being thrown around is mind blowing.
QuoteThe shear wealth of knowledge and history being thrown around is mind blowing.
Yup, after all the time I have dedicated to studying the history of fishing tackle and according to my wife, my mind is blown.......... :(
Very cool stuff, Mike. Are those dogs peened or just a precise fit, I can't tell from the photo?
Mike, Sal has been there for everyone on this site at one time or another, so we just try to pay it forward. I've learned a lot here that ain't about reels.
Thanks
Dom
PS- Do you need a SS sleeve?
QuoteVery cool stuff, Mike. Are those dogs peened or just a precise fit, I can't tell from the photo?
Mike, Sal has been there for everyone on this site at one time or another, so we just try to pay it forward. I've learned a lot here that ain't about reels.
Thanks
Dom
PS- Do you need a SS sleeve?
Dom,
That is an excellent question about the dogs that I cannot answer, because the restoration of the reel was done by my good friend, Ray, in Australia. I simply do not know. I would think not, because a dog is an item that wears and needs to renewed from time to time. permanently mounting them does not make good sense.
Ray aka Superhook, if you are reading this, maybe you can answer the question about the dogs in the EVH Commodore Ross.
I kind of really like the concept of "Pay it Forward" and I practice it whenever I can, but in the case of Sal, I think it should go both ways. At least when it can. The generosity really caught me by surprise. I am also learning a lot here.
And the beat goes on, yes, I need a Stainless Steel sleeve.......................... ;D
But, I no longer need a spool. I won a Newell spool on EBay last night, so now it can look like a total reel, almost. Almost all the big parts are in my possession.
I agree with you Mike...Sal is unbelievable, but another thing Sal is, is modest so right now he's cringing saying, "let's move on and talk reels." LOL ...I know you, Sal ;)
Send me a PM with your address please.
Enjoy the build and we love the info you bring to this forum. Our Chief (Alan) is a magnet for quality people... glad you finally got sucked in. ;D
Dom
QuoteOur Chief (Alan) is a magnet for quality people... glad you finally got sucked in. Grin
Must be that steel plate in head........................... :o
This thread has been a pleasure to read thus far...a little eye candy, a little bit of history and a few amazing folks. Two thumbs up! Looking forward to the finished product and congrats on your "Anniversary Reel".
Thanks Dan!
Dom,
If i remember correctly the dogs on the EVH slide on over the pins , no peening. On first sight i was a little concerned on how to hold them out when fitting the main gear . No problem , just slide it down and with light pressure while turning they move out to correct fit.
Ray
Quote from: broadway on January 14, 2015, 06:16:05 PM
I agree with you Mike...Sal is unbelievable, but another thing Sal is, is modest so right now he's cringing saying, "let's move on and talk reels." LOL ...I know you, Sal ;)
Send me a PM with your address please.
Enjoy the build and we love the info you bring to this forum. Our Chief (Alan) is a magnet for quality people... glad you finally got sucked in. ;D
Dom
Dom, I thank you for your kind words, but you already know that there are a bunch of guys here that do the same, you're one of them. About the red spool, if you remember, Dominick purchased one off Bob (Cone), about two years ago and had Bob ship it to me. Bob found out that I really like those and sent me one soon after that one. By coincidence One of the members just offered me another today. Good things are always happening here. ;)
Thanks to Harry, I haven't purchased Penn grease for the past two years and I'm sure neither has Daron and a few others. That man doesn't know when to stop ::). I need to stop holler at him, I love that guy.
These are just a few that I'm mentioning, as I said, there are many many more great members here.
Sorry guys, back to the reels.
Ray,
Thanks for the clarification. I figured, like Mike said, that it's a part that needs replacing from time to time and wouldn't be peened, but it looked like it to me in the photo.
Sal, One thing is for sure, there are too many good people to list on this site... a lot easier to list the bad eggs. ::) See I told you I knew you... "Back to reels", lol ;D
Thanks
Dom
We have bad eggs here?
Doesn't one spoil the bunch or some such thing?
O...wait... thats apples.
No real bad eggs here... just a few that come now and again asking for stuff or just trying to sell stuff and never coming back.
Not to mention, good luck trying to spoil this bunch. ;)
Dom
I'd say your 113H reel turned out quite nice Mike, considering the chrome spacer bars were only put onto reels and not offered as a separate part. That would be the toughest parts to get for your build. No surprise you pulled it off.
Now try doing that with a 114H. Somehow I think you could pull it off as well.
QuoteI'd say your 113H reel turned out quite nice Mike, considering the chrome spacer bars were only put onto reels and not offered as a separate part. That would be the toughest parts to get for your build. No surprise you pulled it off.
Now try doing that with a 114H. Somehow I think you could pull it off as well.
Thanks Ted, I think if I do this again, I would do it with a 113HLW. I see some of those bars on EBay right now but they are more money and also in worse condition, so I will wait on that build. There is no hurry, it is Winter in my part of the world. A 114H is interesting but I think I will want a boxed original when it comes to the big guy. They are out there... :)
Quote from: Penn Chronology on January 15, 2015, 06:47:27 AM
QuoteI'd say your 113H reel turned out quite nice Mike, considering the chrome spacer bars were only put onto reels and not offered as a separate part. That would be the toughest parts to get for your build. No surprise you pulled it off.
Now try doing that with a 114H. Somehow I think you could pull it off as well.
Thanks Ted, I think if I do this again, I would do it with a 113HLW. I see some of those bars on EBay right now but they are more money and also in worse condition, so I will wait on that build. There is no hurry, it is Winter in my part of the world. A 114H is interesting but I think I will want a boxed original when it comes to the big guy. They are out there... :)
I saw a nice 114h with the chrome bars on ebay not to long ago. To bad I didnt know you were in the market. Will keep an eye out for you.
QuoteI saw a nice 114h with the chrome bars on ebay not to long ago. To bad I didnt know you were in the market. Will keep an eye out for you.
Thank you, but sometimes things happen very fast. I got one tonight privately. I do appreciate the thought.
Hello All,
I know, you all thought I left town but I did not. Just to put a bit of my private schedule out there, every weekend, mostly from Friday to Sunday, I live on my job at JFK Airport and I am away from my computer. So, I am basically off line. I have an I Phone but I do not do anything online with it except to monitor for emergencies on the weekends.
So, today is Tuesday, I think ???, and I wanted to throw in an update on my Winter Project. I am waiting for one gentleman to invoice me for a special handle blade and star drag wheel and I am also waiting for that absolutely wonderful Stainless Steel double dog bridge but waiting for those items does not mean all is stagnant. I have begun a list for all the great people that are making this project possible.
My parts have grown somewhat since my last installment here and I now have list of credits:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate113H--inprogress--1005676x507_zpse2270fea.jpg)
I have yoke springs, an eccentric and a stock chrome plated brass free spool lever with screw. I need a Eccentric Spring and Eccentric Jack but I am waiting, hoping Stainless versions appears online before I actually start to build the reel, if they do not appear I will simply use stock parts.
The time line is, when I get all the available customs parts, I will start the build. Parts that may or may not be ready when I am (like the double dog bridge) will go on a back burner and be installed as replacements of the stock parts as they become available. Eventually, this reel will be a poster child for what could have been a Stock Penn Product, if Penn wanted to build $500.00 Senator 4/O's.
More to Come ;D
Wow...nice build... Can't wait to see the finished product.
QuoteWow...nice build... Can't wait to see the finished product.
Thanks Bryan, I will try to get this done while most are still young. ;D
Quote from: Penn Chronology on January 20, 2015, 08:15:11 PM
Eventually, this reel will be a poster child for what could have been a Stock Penn Product, if Penn wanted to build $500.00 Senator 4/O's.
Why wouldn't they?? ;D
~
A~
It's called a Torque :D ;) ;D
QuoteQuote from: Penn Chronology on Today at 12:15:11 PM
Eventually, this reel will be a poster child for what could have been a Stock Penn Product, if Penn wanted to build $500.00 Senator 4/O's.
Why wouldn't they?? Grin
In my humble opinion, what is done here is a "Labor of Love" and what Penn does is "Business". Penn does what it does very well but there are Purists here that answer to a higher calling than "Business".
Amen!
Quote from: Penn Chronology on January 21, 2015, 01:22:36 AM
In my humble opinion, what is done here is a "Labor of Love" and what Penn does is "Business". Penn does what it does very well but there are Purists here that answer to a higher calling than "Business".
Labor of Love for sure! I wince to think of how much I've spent adding "purity" to perfectly robust Penns... ::)
But of course I wouldn't have it any other way. (http://forums.snapstream.com/vb/images/smilies/wink.gif)
~
A~
QuoteI wince to think of how much I've spent adding "purity" to perfectly robust Penns... Roll Eyes
Beautifully said!
I'm going to be 'that' guy...any progress on this amazing project? Not to be pushy or anything! Haha ;D
I thought someone would start getting impatient :) I have a custom handle blade and custom star wheel on the way. My biggest desire is the double dog bridge but that is not available yet. At least I do not think it is available yet.
I get side tracked very easily because I have so many different projects going on, And I work, and take care of my family and write and , and and. I need 30 hour days.
Haha, no sweat sir! To me the fun of these builds is the fact the we do them between family and work, so it makes them that more special. Handle sounds awesome!
I have been informed that my handle blade and star wheel are ready. Soon I will have made another small progressive step....................... ;D
Yup, there are a couple of more parts to add to my stock. The handle now has a custom stainless steel blade and the sleeve has a phenomenal machined stainless steel star wheel (both of these super high quality parts are from Adam F). The key part I am hoping for here is the 113H stainless steel double dog bridge. This part is in the works and I am starting to think that I should build the reel from this point with all stock parts and add the stainless steel bridge when it becomes available.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate113Hinprogress--2008676x507_zpsb9d4955a.jpg)
I guess I need a free spool lever, eccentric cam and spring, jack, bridge, dog, dog spring. I believe the rest I have. This may happen this winter. :-\
Wow, i am really diggin that star wheel! Its pretty!
QuoteWow, i am really diggin that star wheel! Its pretty!
Me Too!! ;D
Agreed, the star is gorgeous!
Adam outdid himself on that one;)
Dom
QuoteAgreed, the star is gorgeous!
It is neat.
Dan,
I meant to ask you, what's with the crazy face? It sort of looks like you just sat in a bucket of chum. ;D
QuoteAdam outdid himself on that one;)
Dom
Yes, he really did a fine job machining that star. I am very grateful for that. I suspect my final step in this putting this reel together will be to get a Lexan plinth to display it on. :)
Quote from: Penn Chronology on February 09, 2015, 04:38:32 PM
Yes, he really did a fine job machining that star.
Mike, was that a one-off custom job just for you, or are they available for purchase by us civilians? :)
~
A~
QuoteMike, was that a one-off custom job just for you, or are they available for purchase by us civilians? Smiley
I would never presume to answer that. I think you would have to ask Adam. Here is where I found his phenomenal stuff, < http://motivefab.com/products-page/pennreels >
That star is no good Mike ;)....just send it to me and I'll find it a home ;D
QuoteThat star is no good Mike Wink....just send it to me and I'll find it a home Grin
I seem to remember someone saying something to the effect of having to pry something he really valued from his cold, dead hands. I am not a Hollywood kind of guy and usually do not get that dramatic about things, but in this case, well, you know what I mean............................ ;)
Quote from: Penn Chronology on February 09, 2015, 07:45:36 PM
Quote
I seem to remember someone saying something to the effect of having to pry something he really valued from his cold, dead hands. I am not a Hollywood kind of guy and usually do not get that dramatic about things, but in this case, well, you know what I mean............................ ;)
Wink Wink..........Gotcha Mike
That accurate is going to be a headturner when you are done with the build. You might consider some "hazard to rubber neckers" insurance, cause I think you'll need it. :D
Quote from: Aiala on February 09, 2015, 05:58:24 PM
Quote from: Penn Chronology on February 09, 2015, 04:38:32 PM
Yes, he really did a fine job machining that star.
Mike, was that a one-off custom job just for you, or are they available for purchase by us civilians? :)
~A~
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=10468.0
Theres the thread showing the process of machining those stars.
They were originally a special request from Dom, and I have made a few extras along the way. These are very labor intensive, and to cover my time, I would have to charge way more than something like that is worth. So they arent really for sale, except for very special builds.
I do have drag stars for the 113H available(need to update my site, I have 6 at the moment), but they are waterjet cut from flat sheet.
QuoteThese are very labor intensive, and to cover my time, I would have to charge way more than something like that is worth. So they arent really for sale, except for very special builds.
Adam,
Thank you very much for the part. I appreciate it deeply.
Mike C.
How it started was when I was looking for a heavy duty star that wouldn't be so tough on the fingers when cranked down, and of course, it should look good too.
I had explained that I was looking for a Shimano conquest-type star drag, and Adam took it from there making it even better than the conquest star and it's stainless.
Dave (Jurelometer) made a really cool one out of aluminum that really feels nice, but he is a busy man that was just playing around with his skills. We've got some serious talent on this site...it's overwhelming at times.
Thanks for the drags they work and feel great,
Dom
Quote from: Three se7ens on February 09, 2015, 10:11:54 PM
These are very labor intensive, and to cover my time, I would have to charge way more than something like that is worth. So they aren't really for sale, except for very special builds.
Ah, well. Too bad, but perfectly understandable. :-\
~
A~
Quote from: Penn Chronology on January 31, 2015, 08:57:13 AM
I thought someone would start getting impatient :) I have a custom handle blade and custom star wheel on the way. My biggest desire is the double dog bridge but that is not available yet. At least I do not think it is available yet.
I get side tracked very easily because I have so many different projects going on, And I work, and take care of my family and write and , and and. I need 30 hour days.
I have one of the stars that Adam sells on his site, it is a very nice star and a solid upgrade!
Moving on with the saga. I think in order for me to make this happen while we are all still young ;D, I have to determine what is available in the real world verses the future idea world. I figured I am coming close to exhausting after market parts at this time, so I made up a list of what I feel may work in this Accurate head plate for this build, but since I am kind of new at this, I wanted to put my list of stock part needs out here to make sure I have it kind of right before I get into the actual assembly of the reel.
What do you folks think about these needs? Will these parts work without altering the Accurate Head plate. I really do not want to modify the plate to get this done.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/NeededpartsforAccurate113HbuildasofFeb112015--Updated855x735_zps6c989d8e.jpg)
All constructive criticism is appreciated. Puns are enjoyed. :D
After going through some of my old junk I came up with yoke springs, a bridge screw set and a complete set of drag metal and carbon composite washers with the spring washer. So items 5, 9 and 10 are now collected.
Hi Mike --
Have most of what you need --
Missing a bridge -- sorry...likely someone else has one.
On the handle nut part 23 -- you listed either a 23-114 or a 23-60? Have both -- but which one would you prefer?
If these will work -- just PM your mailing info -- and I will get them off in the mail tomorrow, N/C.
Best,
Fred
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/5EADE5F4-DC1A-4DC9-886B-CCD742937C75_zpshiu9kusn.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/5EADE5F4-DC1A-4DC9-886B-CCD742937C75_zpshiu9kusn.jpg.html)
I am guessing he will want stainless jack, dog's, bridge, dog springs, and possibly screws, maybe stainless yoke springs? The other parts will likely be stock.
QuoteHi Mike --
Have most of what you need --
Missing a bridge -- sorry...likely someone else has one.
On the handle nut part 23 -- you listed either a 23-114 or a 23-60? Have both -- but which one would you prefer?
If these will work -- just PM your mailing info -- and I will get them off in the mail tomorrow, N/C.
Best,
Fred
Fred,
Thank you. About the handle nut, I would like the 23-114. Of the parts you pictured. I already have the yoke springs and bridge screws.
QuoteI am guessing he will want stainless jack, dog's, bridge, dog springs, and possibly screws, maybe stainless yoke springs? The other parts will likely be stock.
Here is where I am weak. You are correct about me wanting to have these parts in stainless but are they available in stainless steel? I have not seen a stainless jack, dog, springs or bridge for sale for a 113H. I know the stainless double dog bridge is in the works but it may be months before it is ready for sale. So rather than letting the reel sit in pieces for months, I would rather build it now and simply buy the aftermarket parts as they become available. This entire project is a personal experiment to see how many Penn stock parts and aftermarket parts I can work into these plates in order to make a very special reel. So far it is a interesting project
OK, I am back. My source list has grown and I am sort of ready to start the assemble process. Tomorrow I will go to the tackle shop and grab the odd and end pieces I need to complete this project. My allowances for deviation are because some of what I want is not available yet, so I will use a stock bridge, jack, single dog and standard drag kit until I can get the Stainless Steel jack, double dog bridge and drag insert kit. I may also play with customizing a spool as my time allows but for now I have a great start:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate113Hinprogress--3001676x507_zps744218eb.jpg)
Many of my sources names are very familiar on this website. I thank you all for all your help, contributions and great deals that have already happened and what is to come. We are not done yet. :)
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate113HSources736x654_zpsa61ef4b3.jpg)
So, I have started some assembly. The tail plate fits perfectly. The precision of Accurate parts is amazing. Not even a hint of misalignment of any rim or fastener.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate113Hinprogress--3008676x507_zps9c3f67be.jpg)
Looking good mike, that reel will be one special reel ;).
Two thumbs up!
OK, I went to Causeway Bait and Tackle in Wantagh, New York and the reel man at Causeway, named Greg, donated a brand new 113H bridge to this project. I was all set to start the assembly. My source list is complete and I am on my way to a whole Accurate 113H:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate113Hsources744x662_zps18efa2f5.jpg)
Now I am excited, first I put the greased eccentric and free spool lever assembly together. I use the Teflon Washer under the lever to protect the plate and make and install a small rubber collar to protect the rim:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate113Hinprogress--4002676x507_zps110e8d46.jpg)
Everything is together and working normal, I am ready to move on to the next phase:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate113Hinprogress--4004676x507_zps6a641677.jpg)
I install my nice new stainless steel sleeve onto the new bridge donated by Greg at Causeway Bait and Tackle in Wantagh, New York and put all my parts together getting ready to make this pile of parts look like a reel:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate113Hinprogress--4010676x507_zpse78563d1.jpg)
I love it when a plan comes together. All the ducks are in a row, there cannot be any problem now. Here I go:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate113Hinprogress--4018676x507_zps24bced48.jpg)
The jack, springs, yoke and new stainless steel pinion gear fall right into place. I am ready to install the bridge and I hit a wall >:(
After I put the bridge and drags together and install it into the head plate I have a problem. This is an Accurate Head plate. The Penn bridge screws are too short. No problem, right??? I have about 20,000 fasteners in my garage. Every conceivable size and material except the Penn Bridge screws! They are a 6 diameter, so I have 6-32 internal wrenching stainless steel screws about 1 1/2 inches long. No problem, I will just cut them to the right length. WRONG!!! They are not a 32 thread pitch, they are more fine than a 32 thread. I guess when You buy a set of Accurate plates brand new, you get the proper length and thread pitch screws with the plates but when you get them in the After Market, that is not a guarantee.
So now I am stuck. I need longer Penn bridge screws.
I need some direction, any ideas?
http://www.mcmaster.com/#socket-head-cap-screws/=vzdbsq
They are #6-40 threads for the 113H bridge.
Quote
They are #6-40 threads for the 113H bridge.
Thank you Adam.
I placed an order for the proper fasteners with McMaster Carr, I should have the proper screws in a few days.
These would be the best ones for the bridge screws on the beauty! http://www.mcmaster.com/#92196a761/=vzfc4p. I had a few if needed. But since you already have your order in, can't wait to see it all together!
QuoteInsert Quote
These would be the best ones for the bridge screws on the beauty! http://www.mcmaster.com/#92196a761/=vzfc4p. I had a few if needed. But since you already have your order in, can't wait to see it all together!
That is scary, we are sharing a brain ;). Those are exactly what I ordered and while I was there, I also ordered them in size 5-40 so I can use them for the frame as well as the bridge.
I have run into fastener problems many times before doing antiques but since I am so inexperienced with doing modern work, I did not expect this. Thank you for the thought.
Quote from: Penn Chronology on February 20, 2015, 02:38:45 AM
QuoteInsert Quote
These would be the best ones for the bridge screws on the beauty! http://www.mcmaster.com/#92196a761/=vzfc4p. I had a few if needed. But since you already have your order in, can't wait to see it all together!
That is scary, we are sharing a brain ;). Those are exactly what I ordered and while I was there, I also ordered them in size 5-40 so I can use them for the frame as well as the bridge.
I have run into fastener problems many times before doing antiques but since I am so inexperienced with doing modern work, I did not expect this. Thank you for the thought.
Great minds think a like! Im glad this build is coming together for you! The side plate screws are a nice addition!
OK, I'm back.
After a series of stupid mistakes on my part and a assembly process which I must have done eight times before I got to where I was happy, I now have a assembled head plate:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate%20113H%20in%20progress--5%20002%201024%20x%20768_zpssff4fees.jpg)
Now, I am sure because I am not a custom builder, I made some dumb mistakes and I also hit one wall that I could not solve and had to go another way for now. What you see is the gear box finally together and working smooth. All functions are fine. I used the stainless steel sleeve with the Delrin washer and the 4 to 1 stainless main and pinon gear set. The stainless yoke I could not get to work. I have never installed one of these before, so I figure I did something wrong. Just to see if it was something other than the stainless yoke. I used a stock yoke and the problem disappeared. So this reel has the stock Penn yoke in it now and it works great. It also has the stock five washer drag set in it but I will change that when I get the seven washer set with the special insert and the new double dog bridge. So I am now happy and ready to move to more assembly:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate%20113H%20in%20progress--5%20003%201024%20x%20768_zpsz8miiama.jpg)
And then there was the screw fiasco!. I had screws that were too short, so, I assumed that Penn screws did not work in the Accurate plates and went the McMaster Carr route to get the right screws. All well and good but it turns out that I had the wrong screws in the first place. Because I do not work on Senators too often, most of my spare screws are for the smaller reels. So, the Penn bridge screws I used in the first place were too short because I used the wrong Penn screws. Penn screws for a 113H bridge work in a Accurate plate perfectly. Screws from a Penn Long Beach do not. That is why you see Penn screws in the bridge housing. I will use the Stainless Screws when I get all the other custom parts. As for now, the reel will be held together with Penn fasteners.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate%20113H%20in%20progress--5%20006%201024%20x%20768_zpspioophbw.jpg)
Then there is the beautifully machined Star Wheel by Adam. It threads onto the stainless steel sleeve flawlessly, but, because of the special shaping of the star wheel, when used with a Penn drag sleeve, the wheel will hit the body of the head plate when fully tightened. So I took a 316 stainless steel half inch washer and cut down the outside diameter to fit between the drag wheel and the drag sleeve. That gave me plenty of clearance between the head plate and the drag wheel when fully tightened but would not allow full release of the drag. What I did was to sand off some material from the sleeve until I got the perfect clearance between the head plate and handle with full travel of the drag wheel from full off to full on. I was surprised but it worked very well. Here you can see how tight the clearance is but it works perfectly and does not rub the head plate or the handle.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate%20113H%20in%20progress--5%20036%201024%20x%20768_zpsuzzfxqbt.jpg)
So now I have a magnificent reel to add to my collection thanks to all the generous people here at this great website.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate%20113H%20in%20progress--5%20021%201024%20x%20768_zps7x1uqz0s.jpg)
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate%20113H%20in%20progress--5%20038%201024%20x%20768_zpsmfcq4pja.jpg)
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate%20113H%20in%20progress--5%20033%201024%20x%20768_zpstysct4qp.jpg)
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate%20113H%20in%20progress--5%20031%201024%20x%20768_zps3fqnlpkk.jpg)
My wife walked into my office and looked at this reel. Her first words were, that reel is beautiful, you cannot take it fishing.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate%20113H%20in%20progress--5%20030_zpsmtcw2en1.jpg)
Beautiful Job, Michael --
Best,
Fred
Thanks Fred
Looking good! I never thought about the accurate plates posing an issue with that star, but I'm glad you got it sorted.
Great Job Michael! ;D
She is a Looker! :o
Top-notch work - thanks for sharing!
Beautiful Job Mike. Could you point out where the star was hitting and how thick of a spacer was needed. The reason I ask is that I believe that star and handle make the reel, and I'm hoping Adam will fine tune them to make them work.
Thanks!
Sal
Thank you all. This will be the fourth Accurate in my collection. The others are much smaller, they are all Squidders. I made an Accurate version of all the Squidders. The 140 is gold, a 145 in red and a crazy mottled red and black 146, which I am told is a very difficult color to find:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/DSC00298%20640%20x%20480_zpsceoj8lvq.jpg)
I guess it is obvious but the Model 140 is on the left, the reel on the right is the Model 145. Squidders are one of my favorite Penn reels. When I was a kid it was the reel I dreamed about but could not afford to buy. My pocketbook allowed me to own a Penn 155 that I worked a deal on, a Squidder was a big money reel to me then. Times change, now my Squidders are worth more than my first car cost me.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/DSC00320%20640%20x%20480_zpsfgfv9vuz.jpg)
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/DSC00312%20600%20x%20450_zpsjokrjukz.jpg)
I have been told by people that collect Accurate reels, yea there are guys that collect Accurates ;D, that these crazy mottled plates are rare. I just ran across them on EBay a few years ago and thought they were cool. The frame and plates were sold as a set.
So that's it, all my Accurate's plus the one new 113H addition. They are a fun side bar to serious collecting.
QuoteCould you point out where the star was hitting and how thick of a spacer was needed. The reason I ask is that I believe that star and handle make the reel, and I'm hoping Adam will fine tune them to make them work
With the standard Penn drag sleeve, which starts out measuring 9/32" heavy in thickness, the heavy portion of the star leg hits the top portion of the bridge housing:
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Accurate%20Reels/Accurate%20113H%20in%20progress--5%20007%201024%20x%20768_zpstpxznvka.jpg)
Star wheel leg at the 12 o'clock position will rub the plate if not shimmed. The washer / shim I added was 1/32" thick, that wound up being a bit too much, so I shaved off about 1/64" from the drag sleeve height (height of drag sleeve measuring about 9/32" heavy, finished 9/32" lite). Using a shim of half the thickness I used should also solve the problem. I believe this is not a problem on a stock Penn side plate. This problem only shows up on a Accurate Plate. The clearance between the handle and side plate is more critical using an Accurate plate (IMHO).
I believe Adam is no longer making the special star wheel for sale, this would not be a problem using a flat sheet stock star wheel. It only happened here because of the extra thickness at the end of the star legs in combination with the higher profile of the Accurate plate at the top of the bridge housing.
The machined stars fit fine on the original penn side plate because the area at the spool bearing doesn't protrude out like the accurate frame does. The stars I have for sale on my site are cut from flat stock and will not have that clearance issue with the accurate plates.
Thank you Mike, sounds like an easy fix. I know Adam is not making those anymore, but I need to have one ;D.
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 25, 2015, 01:04:27 AM
Thank you Mike, sounds like an easy fix. I know Adam is not making those anymore, but I need to have one ;D.
Dont worry Sal, I have one here with your name on it. It hasnt been machined yet though.
Great work! Beautiful reel and an excellent addition to your collection!
Great job Mike. They all look great that 146 is just wild looking though. :)
Dustin
Thanks, yes, the crazy looking 146 always brings comments. Great little reel also!
Absolutely fantastic, thanks for bringing us on the journey :)
QuoteAbsolutely fantastic, thanks for bringing us on the journey Smiley
Glad you enjoyed it. Somewhere down the road I will get a double dog bridge, a special drag insert and whatever other odds and ends that are created, as they become available. At that point I will open the "Golden Reel" again and see if I can make it even more interesting.
There is something else I wanted to mention about this saga.
I am in the process of putting together a companion book with a collector Penn price guide to go with my big book. It would cover the same first 25 year era as my first book but from a different perspective. I mentioned to the publisher about this project and he felt we could insert this Accurate 113H story into the Price Guide as a side bar short story. I would be mentioning all the help I received here, what a great place this website is, the high and very diverse levels of skills the members have, the innovations and the generous people I have met here.
I feel like I am occupying a very special zone and I want to shine a little notoriety in this direction in my own way.
If anyone has a problem with that or wants to talk about it, please PM me and we can work it out.
we have never had a discussion here, about who owns what. it sure doesn't belong to me! i've always figured that once something makes it out onto the internet, it is no longer yours, so, mike, anything that i've written, feel free to add to your book. but most the serious modifications have been done by others. guys, if you don't mind having mike add your stuff to his book, let him know. i'm sure he'll be in touch with you, though. thanks! alan
Same here from me.
I'd be honored to be mentioned in the book.
OK, great. The plans for the release is later this year. Those type plans are always at the mercy of life getting in the way of things, as it does happen that way from time to time, but late 2015 it should become available. I just like to clear thing up way in the future. Makes life easier that way.
Thanks
Mike,
I look forward to your next book and will be one of your first buyers, but I have to ask.... How would a price list work? The reason I ask is because when I go on ebay i see a 1950's NOS 9/0 sells for $125 and a week later a 1960's Excellent condition 9/0 sells for $220. Isn't the price kinda subjective? Also, will you update the price list annually? Thanks for putting in the time for the rest of us,
Dom
Dom, I imagine the "price guide" would be for what the reel cost when it was new, the same as Michaels penn history book does....and when a standard 9/0 sells for $220, it only means there were 2 stubborn bidders that didn't want to give up at the usual $120 mark......unless it's the holy grail, or big red :o, in that case $1600 is a bargain ;)
I think a pocket size quick reference guide is a fantastic idea Mike. I'll be first in line to get one !! :D
Ah, so it would be a price guide from back in the day?! ...that'd be very cool and helpful in determining the year of a certain reel. I know what you're saying about stubborn bidders ;)
Don't rub in the holy grail... I know where you live, pal ;D
Ted, you wait on line ....I'll just buy mine online or drive to mikes house to get one. Either way, I'll get mine first 8)
Mike, Whatever you come out with will have tons of pen history in it so bring it on!
Can't wait,
Dom
PS- thanks for the explanation, Ted.
Anything I have said -- you are welcome to quote, Mike -- but I cannot imagine anything I might have to say about Penns to be more useful or informative then the real experts on this Board. Such as you, Alan, Bryan, Sal, Keith, John, Daron, Dom, Bill, and probably 2 dozen others that are really knowledgable.
As for a price guide -- it is really pretty simple:
Forget about ebay prices -- they can be way too high if a couple of guys get into a shooting match -- or way too low in the case of a mis-labeled an innocently mis-represented reel. Remember, there are amateur sellers, amateur buyers, professional sellers, professional buyers -- and everybody else. So ebay is fun -- and we are all looking for that bargain -- or buy it now new listing for a song. But one cannot base complete values off of a system like that.
Instead, there needs to be a "bedrock price range" -- based on condition, rarity, availability, Ex, NIB, EWB, good, fair, average, rough, etc..
There is an expert on spinning reels -- his name is Ben Wright. He has written a few volumes of the Wright's Guide to Spinning Reels. He shows pics, recent prices based on his considerable experience, and some information.
Much like a Blue Book, Black Book, or the NADA guide for vehicles. It is a considered opinion, is based on what a vehicle should be valued at, and is used as a starting point or "guide" for banks, insurance companies, car dealers, etc.
Both cars and reels can be more or less than the book value -- but a professional guide is useful to determine a starting number.
And this will change slightly within a year or two anyway.
Just my opinion...
Best,
Fred
Quote from: foakes on February 26, 2015, 10:17:57 PMthere needs to be a "bedrock price range" -- based on condition, rarity, availability, Ex, NIB, EWB, good, fair, average, rough, etc..
.
I agree Fred, however, that's in a perfect world, and it only takes a few minutes of browsing on eBay to see that there is huge difference in opinions about condition of a used reel, or even a new reel. One might say a reel with salt corrosion is near mint, while another might even say it hasn't been used, while a 3rd would say its only good for parts. Bottom line is a price guide for current value would be an excellent tool for the hundreds of thousands of estate sale junkies. If anyone could do it, Michael can.
I wish the car dealers still used the books for pricing anymore they go by what they can get for it at auction at least the ones in Texas do. Also I have seen pawn shops use ebay as a guide to pricing. I my self have used ebay as a guide in judging whether or not a price at an item at a pawn shop is fair or not. That said I use it subjectively, because there are a lot of sellers out there that use the "buy it now" and reserve price functions on ebay to set the price way to high. Those are also the ones who are still trying to sell the same items they where trying to sell last year. I find it extremely difficult to not send them a message saying they need to look at the prices the items actually sell for and adjust your prices accordingly. ;D
Wow, there is a lot of speculation here! The price guide will be exactly that, a guide to give an idea of values based on what I have seen trading for the last tens years. It will not be what the reels sold for when they were released, that info is in the Summaries at the end of the history book. I have no idea how often I will be able to update it. Actually, once it is created, it can be used to give a buyer what is valuable and what is common rather that putting an exact value on a reel that would be updated every year. Exact values can never be determined by what happens in auctions, auctions are almost always off. My prices will be what I feel is an average. There will be an explanation of how I determine what is what at the beginning of the price guide. I give a range, the low end of the range is a fully functional reel that is cosmetically challenged. Reels that are doctored up or missing parts I do not presume to value. New Old Stock means a mint, unused reels still in the box with the contents of the box that Penn put in there when it sold the reel.
Here is an example from a future work. In the book the guide will be in a chart that will span 1932 to 1957.
YEAR REEL NAME MODEL# PRICE RANGE NEW OLD STOCK
1959 Jigmaster 500 $30---$60 $140
1959 Jigmaster not cataloged 500M $30---$60 $250
The chapters will be a collection of my Penn articles from the ORCA publication, The Reel News. There are seventeen of them.
It is good to see all the interest.
Time to bring the old Accurate 113H back again. I found different drags and a SS double dog bridge. Sure wish I had Sal to bounce this off of but I feel he will be here in spirt.
I will make this short. I kind of forgot how to post tutorials here, so I am going to do my best with this. Basically I took apart the old Accurate 113H, which I believe I will never sell. To me, it represents the good people of the Tani World. Anyways, This is the old Winter Project reel and I was really surprised when I found this old thread that more than five years had passed since the beginning of this project began.
I accumulated a few more parts a couple of years ago and finally decided I should take the reel apart to change the parts. That was not an easy decision because the reel was perfect, smooth and strong. Why mess with something that works that well? Because that is what we do. If it has 20 pounds of drag, why not make it have 30. If it has one dog, let's make it two. If it is a perfectly operating brass part, let change that brass part to a stainless steel part, simply because that is the Tani way. So here is what I did.
I took a perfectly operating Penn / Accurate 113H and made it stronger and tighter. Now it feel like I could tow a large boat with it.
That's a fantastic reel Mike...I'd never sell it either. 8)
Stellar, Mike!
QuoteThat's a fantastic reel Mike...I'd never sell it either. Cool---Stellar, Mike!
Thanks Guys. It was fun to revisit, I did not realize so much time had past since we did this together. So much has changed. This is a great place.
That is quite the reel.
With all that drag, there aren't many fish that can be caught with stand up gear that you couldn't handle with that thing.
Well done.
The Man
QuoteThat is quite the reel.
With all that drag, there aren't many fish that can be caught with stand up gear that you couldn't handle with that thing.
Well done.
The Man
I did a test with it today. The weakest link is me. 50 pound class tackle and a forty pound weight.
Nice job on the tank Mike. Those custom inserts from Adam are unbeatable.
You should also test it with the spool 3/4 full, which would better replicate real life scenario. An almost empty spool will always give higher drag #'s.
Right there is the photo of the month...great shot Mike!! 8)
QuoteNice job on the tank Mike. Those custom inserts from Adam are unbeatable.
You should also test it with the spool 3/4 full, which would better replicate real life scenario. An almost empty spool will always give higher drag #'s.
Agreed, but I felt this was good enough since the reel is goiing to be a shelf queen. I just needed to know it was strong and it is. Stronger than me.
QuoteRight there is the photo of the month...great shot Mike!! Cool
The final photo was my last ditch pull. The weight won but the reel and line held.
Coooool!
Both photos are great, but I give an edge to the 1st one, with your mouth open.
I have an Accurate Jigmaster Magnum(113H guts/spool shafts). I retired it for 2 reasons even though it's a bit beat-up: A classic reel that isn't that common. And, I found-out from Ted that there are Pro Gear Jigmaster size reels with 113H guts and a better engineered gear-side plate to frame fit/attachment.
QuoteI have an Accurate Jigmaster Magnum(113H guts/spool shafts). I retired it for 2 reasons even though it's a bit beat-up: A classic reel that isn't that common. And, I found-out from Ted that there are Pro Gear Jigmaster size reels with 113H guts and a better engineered gear-side plate to frame fit/attachment.
The new updated reels on today's markets have left me in the dust. It seems that improvements happen faster than you can build a reel.