Today I received Adam's insert kit
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/002-32.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/002-32.jpg.html)
the cutting is perfect on the parts, you could actually set all the washers in the insert and still slide them up and down with no binding anywhere
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/007-20.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/007-20.jpg.html)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/011-16.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/011-16.jpg.html)
the washers fit nice and tight
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/004-31.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/004-31.jpg.html)
and so does the insert on the gear
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/015-14.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/015-14.jpg.html)
Since my 4/0 with easy access drag system is already loaded with line, I'll try it and see how it does
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/016-12.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/016-12.jpg.html)
the insert drops right in
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/018-14.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/018-14.jpg.html)
the last carbon fiber washer sits 1/16 below the lip, very nice
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/021-8.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/021-8.jpg.html)
pulling the line out while holding the reel in my hands, I got it up to 37lbs, the line was peeling off nice and smooth. I do have have a Delrin washer for under the gear and a Delrin belleville on top, I know those are helping with smoothness quite a bit
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/024-7.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/024-7.jpg.html)
I mounted the reel on a rod and did some rolling tests with the wagon, I also dropped a half cinder black from the three house, I tryed a full black, but couldn't hold it. The scale registered at 30lb on a 12' drop, the black fell nice and smooth.
sorry for the poor aiming with the black falling
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/058.mp4
Afterwards, I took the insert out to check if everything looked good and it did
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/057-2.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/057-2.jpg.html)
I want to mention that if you use the insert on the easy access drag plate, you will need to add some washers to take up the space.
Maybe Adam could design something for it.
You did very good Adam, thank you for sending me one and I'm hoping it won't be the last you'll make.
You have a good thing here...great job!
This 4/0 with all the other options above, is a 30lb reel. Try it for yourself if you don't believe it.
Enjoy it!
Sal
Oh boy,oh boy,oh boy :o :o Adam pleeeeeeease make more! This looks sweet and I have a 113HN that is really needing this.
Sal, as always thanks so much for testing and giving this the thumbs up!
Bob
Thanks for the testing and report, Sal.
What a great product!
Best,
Fred
Good stuff. These kits are gonna be awesome. Sal would you say this kit performed at or above the ProChallenger Hex set? In terms of drsg performance (i.e. disregarding the advantages of the stainless steel helicle-cut gear set) Did you try the insert and drag kit in a ProChallenger gear set?
Nice work Adam!
This with the BP gear set......priceless!
Sal, thanks for testing these out. Im happy to see these perform so well, and the larger sizes should do even better. The surface area wont be impacted as much on the larger sizes, and there will be 14 washers in the 114h sized one instead of the 10 here.
I had planned on adding an extra, thicker washer to be the top one in the stack. I overlooked it when I had these cut, but it will be a part of the kit when I have these up for sale.
Im looking at about 2 weeks or so before I can have a batch ready to ship out. Ill have pricing up this weekend.
Sal, tell him to make me a couple.
Can't wait to see what Sal pulls on the 6/0. Pretty much at my limit now, but very exciting!
Quote from: BMITCH on January 16, 2015, 10:28:07 PM
Can't wait to see what Sal pulls on the 6/0. Pretty much at my limit now, but very exciting!
Daron is going to need a truck to test the 14/0 ones :o
Quote from: RowdyW on January 16, 2015, 10:00:47 PM
Sal, tell him to make me a couple.
I believe he heard you Rudy ;D
Quote from: Tightlines666 on January 16, 2015, 09:32:21 PM
Good stuff. These kits are gonna be awesome. Sal would you say this kit performed at or above the ProChallenger Hex set? In terms of drsg performance (i.e. disregarding the advantages of the stainless steel helicle-cut gear set) Did you try the insert and drag kit in a ProChallenger gear set?
Nice work Adam!
The kit was installed in Black Pearl's gears. To me, this latest is the best I've tested to date. Keep in mind, increasing drags doesn't really help you, unless the reel feels smooth. As I mentioned above, I strongly believe the Delrin on top and bottom are helping the reel
Quote from: Three se7ens on January 16, 2015, 09:59:22 PM
Sal, thanks for testing these out. Im happy to see these perform so well, and the larger sizes should do even better. The surface area wont be impacted as much on the larger sizes, and there will be 14 washers in the 114h sized one instead of the 10 here.
I had planned on adding an extra, thicker washer to be the top one in the stack. I overlooked it when I had these cut, but it will be a part of the kit when I have these up for sale.
Im looking at about 2 weeks or so before I can have a batch ready to ship out. Ill have pricing up this weekend.
.
Adam, these will be awesome on larger reels. I wouldn't go with too many washers, it isn't needed, I rather you stick with 5 or 6.
You could make the CF and the metal washers thicker on those.
I know you had concerns about the small washers on the 4/0, don't let that bother you, they're doing just fine.
Keep them coming and try to set the price as good as you could so most could give them a shot.
Thanks again Adam
Sal
I could definately find a market for 12/0 and 14/0 inserts.
I am soooo all over the 4/0 and 6/0 sets. Can't wait.
Will this kit work On the newer 113N ?
I guess to back up, will this be offered in a kit?
The inserts will not work in the 113N because the new Penn reels use their versa drag system.
Delrin on top and bottom are helping make my 113 h supper smooth. i have more then enough drag as well
Quote from: Three se7ens on January 16, 2015, 10:31:04 PM
Quote from: BMITCH on January 16, 2015, 10:28:07 PM
Can't wait to see what Sal pulls on the 6/0. Pretty much at my limit now, but very exciting!
Daron is going to need a truck to test the 14/0 ones :o
My Truck has 350HP. I hope that's enough! ;D
Very Nice Work Adam! When I first saw the drawing, I knew you were onto something special.
Sal, Great Job My Man! as always! ;)
113H kit - $37 shipped in the continental US
Kit includes: 1 stainless insert, 5 carbon fiber washers, 4 thin metal washers, 1 thick metal washer, and 1 delrin washer for under the gear.
114H kit - $48 shipped in the continental US *this price is tentative, pending testing. It may be less, but will not be more*
kit includes: 1 stainless insert, 7 carbon fiber washers, 6 thin metal washers, 1 thick metal washer, and 1 delrin washer for under the gear.
The 114H kit may get less washers, because Sal is concerned that the drag will ramp up too quickly. If less washers are used, the price will drop on the kit.
I have 10 kits of each on order, I will make them available on my website once I have the kits in hand and ready to ship.
This is awsome Adam. Can't wait until there on your site. Thanks for making these available.
Bob
Nice!!!!
Let me know when they are on the website! I know Sal hasnt tested them yet, but do you think the 114h insert will be better than the hex gears?
Yes, more contact surface.
Quote from: fIsHsTiiCkS on January 20, 2015, 04:03:25 AM
Let me know when they are on the website! I know Sal hasnt tested them yet, but do you think the 114h insert will be better than the hex gears?
Yes. The hex drag can round off the corners of the drag washers at high drag. Thick carbon washers helps, but it limits how many can fit in the gear. My kit for the 114H will have 13 active drag surfaces, and I expect around 55 lbs of drag.
what's your web site?
http://motivefab.com/products-page/pennreels (http://motivefab.com/products-page/pennreels)
if something like that comes out for the 12/0 I might have a little secret project I will be working on in the near future, that will make reel/stand flex a thing of the past...
and yes, I would buy the heck out of a set. just cuz...
cracker,
I saw on SOS where you posted some of my work. I don't mind, I was just surprised to see it there. The 12 and 14/0 gears are on their way to Adam as we speak. What is your idea about the reel seat flex?
Well, someone needs to stand on the shoulder of giants ;) I figured it could be me! You have helped me out along the way, and I sure don't mind setting other people on the right path using your write ups. besides, it saves me from having to do it, and I don't usually take pictures of everything I do.
I cant. its a secret. but I should have a little sumpin' (is that a deep south accent I detect?) to share by the end of the year....
now that we will have massive drags available, stainless gear sleeves, monster power handles, we need two things, someone to make a set of stainless gears (steel ones are great, just limited supply IF they can be found) and something to make the frame/ stand beefier.
I purchased the last set of stainless steel cross bars the other day for my 14/0. I think the stainless bars with stainless screws will be more than enough. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a full frame or even a half frame like the tom and Dom 9/0 frames. But I doubt the cost would alllow it. Thatd be one big piece of aluminum you'd have to order
You know you would buy one. :D One step at a time. We are getting there. Slowly but Surely. ;)
nah, a 5" diameter bar, 4.5" wide... or 5x5x5 cube (ok, 5x5x20ft bar)
Quote from: Shark Hunter on January 20, 2015, 03:46:09 PM
You know you would buy one. :D One step at a time. We are getting there. Slowly but Surely. ;)
Oh in heart beat without a doubt!!!
Do you accept Paypal through your website, or Credit Card processing only? I tried to mock process an order on your website to find out the process, but when I picked an item, went to my cart and hit checkout it said there was no item in my cart.
You should have gone for a run of 40-50...I know beggars cannot be choosers, but with a run of 10 I am afraid I might miss out. Not using the 113HN til halibut season and next summer, so there is time.
Great product, hope I can get my hands on a set.
-Scott
Quote from: sundaytrucka on January 20, 2015, 04:26:20 PM
Do you accept Paypal through your website, or Credit Card processing only? I tried to mock process an order on your website to find out the process, but when I picked an item, went to my cart and hit checkout it said there was no item in my cart.
You should have gone for a run of 40-50...I know beggars cannot be choosers, but with a run of 10 I am afraid I might miss out. Not using the 113HN til halibut season and next summer, so there is time.
Great product, hope I can get my hands on a set.
-Scott
I accept paypal through my website, and there is an option for manual payment. That option is for people who have made prior arrangements to pay with a check or money order.
If a part is not in stock, it cannot be ordered through my site. I do not want to deal with taking orders for items I do not have in hand, its a recipe for unhappy customers. I normally have parts 1 week after I order them from the cutter, but I ran into an issue last year where it took me 2 months to get an order.
I will continually produce these, and make every effort to keep at least a few sets in stock at all times. Dont worry about availability, I can have as many or as few sets made, and have them in a short period.
I think what Adam has come up with is gonna be a good thing for you guys who need 50 lbs of drag out of a 113/114, but who's gonna cut your CF washers when the first set is shot? I like the idea of the hex insert (but I don't own one) because anyone can cut them or the round because we already know where to find those. Adam, will you be selling those fancy CF washers separately?
All the best,
Dom
This is an excellent question Dom. I'm fairly talented with the exacto knife, but this cf config. Would be way above my talents.
Quote from: broadway on January 20, 2015, 05:21:29 PM
I think what Adam has come up with is gonna be a good thing for you guys who need 50 lbs of drag out of a 113/114, but who's gonna cut your CF washers when the first set is shot? I like the idea of the hex insert (but I don't own one) because anyone can cut them or the round because we already know where to find those. Adam, will you be selling those fancy CF washers separately?
All the best,
Dom
Sure. For the 113H, $2.50 each, or a set of 5 for $11. For the 114H, $3 each, or a set of 7 for $18.
The metal washers should last forever, but if replacements are needed, I will make them available too.
Thanks for all this Adam. Can't wait to get them on order.
Bob
That's great, Adam!
Thanks for providing this upgrade for our strongest members ;D
Dom
Adam is my new Hero! This is ground breaking! ;D
I Love it when we tip the scales here on something that has never been done before!
I am going to have to invest in a new fighting belt now!
Now I'm not so envious of my buddy's Baja. This is a CLOSE second with this insert!
Quote from: Shark Hunter on January 21, 2015, 12:38:27 AM
Adam is my new Hero! This is ground breaking! ;D
I Love it when we tip the scales here on something that has never been done before!
I am going to have to invest in a new fighting belt now!
Yes, we're very lucky for having Adam here with us, he's been spoiling us. But lets not forget Robert Janssen, he's the one that started it all.
It's all easy now, but if it wasn't for Robert Janssen, we wouldn't have had those today.
Quote from: BMITCH on January 21, 2015, 01:23:27 AM
Now I'm not so envious of my buddy's Baja. This is a CLOSE second with this insert!
lol can't wait to use both bob.
These inserts are waaay nice. and if you can buy slap in cf washers these are goinna revolutionize a lot of penn folks. they are now made for the masses. thats a good thing .......great that someone would step up to the plate as the need seemed to be there.......it was a do it yourself type thing for a long time with a few folks saying "what if".......these kits should sell like hotcakes. kudos to everyone involved!
Now if we could just fill the boat with ninety nine cent gas, I,ll bring the bait. Fish on!
Quote from: Shark Hunter on January 21, 2015, 12:38:27 AM
Adam is my new Hero! This is ground breaking! ;D
I Love it when we tip the scales here on something that has never been done before!
I am going to have to invest in a new fighting belt now!
I know a guy that has a nice plate!
If these come out for 12/0, i am so in!
Quote from: Alto Mare on January 21, 2015, 01:26:07 AM
Quote from: Shark Hunter on January 21, 2015, 12:38:27 AM
Adam is my new Hero! This is ground breaking! ;D
I Love it when we tip the scales here on something that has never been done before!
I am going to have to invest in a new fighting belt now!
Yes, we're very lucky for having Adam here with us, he's been spoiling us. But lets not forget Robert Janssen, he's the one that started it all.
It's all easy now, but if it wasn't for Robert Janssen, we wouldn't have had those today.
Thanks, Mr Mare. Thanks for remembering; I appreciate it. The internet be what it may, great in many instances-- but it also sometimes has a surprisingly short memory. You don't. ;-)
.
Thank You Mr. Janssen for starting all of this. We couldn't have done it without you! ;D
Quote from: Robert Janssen on January 21, 2015, 09:07:35 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on January 21, 2015, 01:26:07 AM
Quote from: Shark Hunter on January 21, 2015, 12:38:27 AM
Adam is my new Hero! This is ground breaking! ;D
I Love it when we tip the scales here on something that has never been done before!
I am going to have to invest in a new fighting belt now!
Yes, we're very lucky for having Adam here with us, he's been spoiling us. But lets not forget Robert Janssen, he's the one that started it all.
It's all easy now, but if it wasn't for Robert Janssen, we wouldn't have had those today.
Thanks, Mr Mare. Thanks for remembering; I appreciate it. The internet be what it may, great in many instances-- but it also sometimes has a surprisingly short memory. You don't. ;-)
.
Robert, I might forget my wife's birthday at times, but i'll never forget who comes up with the greatest upgrade of all for these reels Wink.
Thanks again my friend.
Sal
thanks Adam I'm in for an insert for the 114h and a 113 baja can't wait.
They are here! The 113H insert and drag kits are ready to ship. Price is $37 shipped in the continental US, and includes a delrin washer for under the gear, the insert, 5 carbon fiber washers, 4 thin hardened stainless washers, and one thick stainless washer for the top of the stack.
6 of these 10 are already spoken for(Sal, Daron, Lee and Leo), leaving 4 sets from this batch available. I will be ordering more next week.
The 114H kits in the background will be ready soon, but need a bit of work. I have one in my 9/0, and Im sending one to Sal for him to test.
I'll take one!!!
I want one also. 113h RUDY
When the 114h kits are available put me in for one. RUDY
Good Work Adam! ;)
I'm sure I speak for others. We appreciate this! This will make the 113H a much more powerful reel! >:(
I am just also glad to see, you can sell them as fast as you can make them. ;D
Thanks for doing these.
That is good to hear that from you Lee. You are the pioneer of the inserts. Adam just has access to bump it up a notch. I will still fish yours and Adam's as well. ;)
I'll take a 114h one as well when they come available
Quote from: Shark Hunter on February 23, 2015, 04:03:10 AM
That is good to hear that from you Lee. You are the pioneer of the inserts. Adam just has access to bump it up a notch. I will still fish yours and Adam's as well. ;)
All I did was to change the method of making them, others deserve the credit for coming up with the idea for an insert. Adam has perfected them.
Quote from: Keta on February 23, 2015, 04:14:33 AM
Quote from: Shark Hunter on February 23, 2015, 04:03:10 AM
That is good to hear that from you Lee. You are the pioneer of the inserts. Adam just has access to bump it up a notch. I will still fish yours and Adam's as well. ;)
All I did was to change the method of making them, others deserve the credit for coming up with the idea for an insert. Adam has perfected them.
Thanks for the kind words. Im just lucky to have access to the kind of equipment to make these things a reality.
And so are we! ;)
X10
I have a narrow topless 114H I have apart to fix a gritty eccentric and replace the drag washers that needs one of these.
Good stuff.
Adam, thanks for bring these to the table. Nice upgrade!! I'm wanting 3sets of each for the 113h and the 114h when they become available. How is best to order from you. Your online store?? PM you?? I'm not in any horrible rush. So if others are needing them right now that's ok. I won't be fishing these reels for a couple of months yet, but would like to start on the service.
Thanks,
Bob
This batch I'm selling only through the forum, but once I get the next order in, I'll put them up on my site.
One set left from this batch, pm me for payment details.
PM sent!
Thanks everyone, Ill be shipping most of the orders tomorrow.
Ill have another batch in about 2 weeks, and hopefully Ill have the 114H ones then as well.
Thanks Adam! Can't wait. ;D
Quote from: Three se7ens on February 23, 2015, 11:59:50 PM
...Ill have the 114H ones then as well.
I'd like a set for the 114H too please, thank you.
Adam does some good work! ;D
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/IMG_2831_zps6rsotccq.jpg)
I would like a set for 114H, please.
Thank you
Charlie
Man, if i hadnt just bought a set of bryans 7 disk drags for the 113, i would be all over this.
When is the larger senator versions getting released? If we can get a frame made, with the new stainless bits, we will be missing a smooth high capacity drag setup!
Quote from: crackerman on February 28, 2015, 03:46:08 PM
Man, if i hadnt just bought a set of bryans 7 disk drags for the 113, i would be all over this.
When is the larger senator versions getting released? If we can get a frame made, with the new stainless bits, we will be missing a smooth high capacity drag setup!
One big shark and you could need a new drag stack.
Buy these goodies while they're available, if ya snooze ya lose.
Sal will be getting a 114H kit to test next week, and they will be available shortly thereafter. I have done a little bit of testing in my 9/0, but stopped at 32 lbs since I still have brass gears. It was very smooth, and very strong. Im guessing 50 lbs or more for the max.
I will have more 113H kits in another week or two.
Ill be testing the daiwa 600h kit as soon as I get my reel back together, and Im working on an insert for the big senators.
Adam, I know this is an early question but....when do you think the replacement washer sets will be available for these drop ins? Reason being that if this insert has a short run life due to lack of intrest or other unforeseen factors I would feel really good at having a couple sets of spare washers (both CF and metal) ready to drop in. I know I'm putting the cart before the hoarse I but just trying to hedge my bets.
Thanks
Bob
Quote from: BMITCH on February 28, 2015, 04:42:54 PM
Adam, I know this is an early question but....when do you think the replacement washer sets will be available for these drop ins? Reason being that if this insert has a short run life due to lack of intrest or other unforeseen factors I would feel really good at having a couple sets of spare washers (both CF and metal) ready to drop in. I know I'm putting the cart before the hoarse I but just trying to hedge my bets.
Thanks
Bob
In the next couple of batches I will have extra washers cut for those that want them.
That being said, parts will be available as long as Im here. Im not required to have a minimum order, and small orders dont my cost from the cutter. They maintain drawings and cad programs on everything they cut for many years, and I keep backups of all my parts as well.
Thanks for the reply Adam. This will make my decisions easier going forward.
Bob
Awesome! I am glad to hear that and hope to get some business done in the next few months.
Is there any for the 113H left if not when will the next batch be in I need 1 set.
Joel8080
Quote from: Three se7ens on February 28, 2015, 04:31:45 PM
Ill be testing the daiwa 600h kit as soon as I get my reel back together, and Im working on an insert for the big senators.
Adam, are you say you'll
BE MAKING INSERTS FOR THE 600H? If so please add me to your list!
Leo
PS All that's needed after the insert is a SS GEAR SLEEVE; maybe with a few extra teeth! What do you think about a gear sleeve Adam?
Strictly hypothetical question here, but what kind of drag do you think could be generated with this insert, a 7+1 stack from bryan, and a gen 2 sleeve from alan? I say hypothetical because I'm not sure how much more drag a senator can take.
Quote from: Shiftee on March 01, 2015, 02:13:46 AM
Strictly hypothetical question here, but what kind of drag do you think could be generated with this insert, a 7+1 stack from bryan, and a gen 2 sleeve from alan? I say hypothetical because I'm not sure how much more drag a senator can take.
Bryans 7+1 stack is not compatible with my kit. Both his and mine are different means of accomplishing the same result.
The gen 2 sleeve isnt going to have much of an effect on the max drag of either kit, its more to address the longevity of the carbon fiber washer under the gear. Im using delrin here on Sals advice.
Sal tested my insert kit on page 1 and achieved 37 lbs of drag. His reel had an aluminum frame, stainless gear sleeve, and gears, and all the other goodies.
Quote from: Three se7ens on March 01, 2015, 02:55:15 AM
Quote from: Shiftee on March 01, 2015, 02:13:46 AM
Strictly hypothetical question here, but what kind of drag do you think could be generated with this insert, a 7+1 stack from bryan, and a gen 2 sleeve from alan? I say hypothetical because I'm not sure how much more drag a senator can take.
Bryans 7+1 stack is not compatible with my kit. Both his and mine are different means of accomplishing the same result.
The gen 2 sleeve isnt going to have much of an effect on the max drag of either kit, its more to address the longevity of the carbon fiber washer under the gear. Im using delrin here on Sals advice.
Sal tested my insert kit on page 1 and achieved 37 lbs of drag. His reel had an aluminum frame, stainless gear sleeve, and gears, and all the other goodies.
I more or less meant combining the ideas, not necessarily that they were compatible. But I got ya, makes sense.
I disagree on the washer for under the gear as being for longevity, even though true, this is not why I recommend it.
An Acetal washer when used under the gear will make that reel much smoother. It's easier increasing drag numbers on a reel that functions very smooth up to its max.
I do agree with Adam's numbers, the 113H when used with the insert and the Acetal washer for under the gear and preferably one on top of the stack, could safely be fished at 30 lbs.
As Adam stated, an aluminum frame, custom ss gear sleeve and ss gears will help get you there.
The custom insert from Adam is one of the best upgrade to date and the upcoming gears from Alan C. will be even better, but both have their places...both are valuable to us.
Here are some specs weather on the inserts or upcoming gears from Alan C . The good thing about either one is that you could control drag numbers by positioning the washers as shown on figure 1- 2 or 3.
I can assure you, my reels will be set as shown on figure 3
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/US06318655-20011120-D00001%20drags.png) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/US06318655-20011120-D00001%20drags.png.html)
And here are some numbers, level 3 really gets up there
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/US06318655-20011120-D00002%20drag2.png) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/US06318655-20011120-D00002%20drag2.png.html)
Sal
Quote from: Shiftee on March 01, 2015, 02:13:46 AM
Strictly hypothetical question here, but what kind of drag do you think could be generated with this insert, a 7+1 stack from bryan, and a gen 2 sleeve from alan? I say hypothetical because I'm not sure how much more drag a senator can take.
more than the non-stainless steel gears can handle, for sure. and certainly more then i would want to use on a single speed reel.
Come on Boss. ;D
Get on the Train! ;)
These upgrades of recent are the best thing that has ever happened to us Senator Folks! ;D
Sal, my point about longevity wasn't referring to the delrin, it was referring to the gen 2 gear sleeves that use a metal washer with the under gear washer, to keep the teeth and dogs from wearing the carbon fiber washer. That will help the life of a carbon fiber washer, but I don't see that metal washer being necessary with delrin under the gear.
My misunderstanding Adam, I thought you meant the Delrin/ Acetal washer.
Quote from: alantani on March 01, 2015, 06:11:36 AM
Quote from: Shiftee on March 01, 2015, 02:13:46 AM
Strictly hypothetical question here, but what kind of drag do you think could be generated with this insert, a 7+1 stack from bryan, and a gen 2 sleeve from alan? I say hypothetical because I'm not sure how much more drag a senator can take.
more than the non-stainless steel gears can handle, for sure. and certainly more then i would want to use on a single speed reel.
I have been fishing 2speed vs 1 speed on a few applications. I would have to agree with this statement a little. Also, it comes to preference and style of fishing. I really only will be using these inserts/versa style gears in one reel. The things you guys are doing here is insane though!!!
Quote from: Three se7ens on March 01, 2015, 05:34:16 PM
That will help the life of a carbon fiber washer, but I don't see that metal washer being necessary with delrin under the gear.
The metal under washer will spread the load on both Delrin and CF washers and should help.
Adam sent me a couple of extra washers for the 113H kit, since I didn't like that last washer being so close to the insert, I decided to open the reel up again and add two more washers
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/132.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/132.jpg.html)
Here is what i got
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/133.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/133.jpg.html)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/135.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/135.jpg.html)
45Lbs, just as I thought, the Top-Hat was bottoming out on the insert
The reel felt smooth almost all the way, again this test was done by pulling the line out while holding the reel in my hands.
Numbers should be close to having it on the rod, I've compared these earlier and they were exactly the same.
The reel increased slowly up to 25Lbs, from that point it would increse 5Lbs at a time, just by turning the star about 1/8", still able to do it by using one hand on the star.
I tried different tension springs, the stock, one from McMastersCarr in stainless steel and the thick one from the 114H, just to see if it would change. The reel felt the same with all.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/136.jpg) (http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/136.jpg.html)
I have an idea to help it a little, but will need to experiment first.
Acetal washer was used on top and bottom, as mentioned above, the reel felt smooth all the way, but very smooth up to 25-30Lbs.
Adam, your set includes (5)mm carbon fiber washers and (6) keyed washers. On the reel with easy access drag system, I'm going to recommend that you change it to (5) carbon fiber washers, (5) keyed washers and (1) keyed washer of 0.95" in thickness for the top.
Sal
Quote from: fIsHsTiiCkS on March 03, 2015, 03:32:36 PM
Quote from: alantani on March 01, 2015, 06:11:36 AM
Quote from: Shiftee on March 01, 2015, 02:13:46 AM
Strictly hypothetical question here, but what kind of drag do you think could be generated with this insert, a 7+1 stack from bryan, and a gen 2 sleeve from alan? I say hypothetical because I'm not sure how much more drag a senator can take.
more than the non-stainless steel gears can handle, for sure. and certainly more then i would want to use on a single speed reel.
I have been fishing 2speed vs 1 speed on a few applications. I would have to agree with this statement a little. Also, it comes to preference and style of fishing. I really only will be using these inserts/versa style gears in one reel. The things you guys are doing here is insane though!!!
There is a lot more to take in consideration, not just two speed vs one speed, as in handle length, spool height, gear ratio and more. If a reel is well balanced there is no need for the two speed, just my opinion.
On your last comment, all i will say is: if you can't take the heat step out of the kitchen ;) ;D.
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 08, 2015, 02:38:20 PM
Adam, your set includes (5)mm carbon fiber washers and (6) keyed washers. On the reel with easy access drag system, I'm going to recommend that you change it to (5) carbon fiber washers, (5) keyed washers and (1) keyed washer of 0.95" in thickness for the top.
Sal
The kits that Im shipping out include 5 carbon fiber washers, 4 thin metal washers, and one thick metal washer. The extra washers I sent you were the new hardened ones, and I still owe you a thick washer for the first kit I sent you. It wasnt cut with my last order, but I have extras on the order Im picking up this week.
Quote from: Three se7ens on March 08, 2015, 04:17:32 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 08, 2015, 02:38:20 PM
Adam, your set includes (5)mm carbon fiber washers and (6) keyed washers. On the reel with easy access drag system, I'm going to recommend that you change it to (5) carbon fiber washers, (5) keyed washers and (1) keyed washer of 0.95" in thickness for the top.
Sal
The kits that Im shipping out include 5 carbon fiber washers, 4 thin metal washers, and one thick metal washer. The extra washers I sent you were the new hardened ones, and I still owe you a thick washer for the first kit I sent you. It wasnt cut with my last order, but I have extras on the order Im picking up this week.
Adam, that's funny, I just opened the bag and sure enough you already have what I just requested. I was working with the first set and had no idea you've already included it. You're one step ahead.
Thanks !
Sal
I have 9 more 113H kits available. $37 shipped each in the continental US. PM me to order. Ill put them on my website late this week.
Just ordered my custom insert from Adam, cannot wait for it to arrive and install it. I might have to buy some delrin washers for other reels and for a belleville on my Tank.
cool stuff
I have a "kit" in a 113H "Tank" and 2 in 349H's that I'm impatiently waiting to test on fish. They worked well on my ATV tests. I got higher drag numbers in my 349's with a standard 7+1 stack but not much and not quite as smooth. The difference should not be as much with a 113H, both kits use the same washers.
Quote from: Keta on April 21, 2015, 03:12:39 AM
I have a "kit" in a 113H "Tank" and 2 in 349H's that I'm impatiently waiting to test on fish. They worked well on my ATV tests. I got higher drag numbers in my 349's with a standard 7+1 stack but not much and not quite as smooth. The difference should not be as much with a 113H, both kits use the same washers.
I can fit the 114H washers in the 349 insert which should bring you to about 60 lbs of max drag if you want. The 113H kits were making 45 lbs for Sal though, so if youre getting much less(aside from the difference in spool diameter), Id check that the bottom metal washer isnt bottoming out on the gear sleeve, and that the top hat or spacer isnt bottoming out on the insert.
The 349H Mk I is more than enough and far higher than the original 3 washer stack. I'd say leave it as is.
Im in the same boat with these as with the 114H inserts, not consistently getting the quality of parts as whats quoted, so Ill have sets available as I can put together kits with good parts, but no big orders until it gets sorted out. This applies to the 349H inserts as well.
Don't do what I did and end up with a 5 gallon can of expensive scrap SS.
Thankfully I don't pay for parts they mess up on. But it still means I have to wait on them being recut until they are right.
Quote from: Three se7ens on May 12, 2015, 12:09:30 PM
Thankfully I don't pay for parts they mess up on. But it still means I have to wait on them being recut until they are right.
Its worth the wait.... thanks for doing these for us.
Quote from: Alto Mare on May 12, 2015, 12:38:05 PMIts worth the wait.... thanks for doing these for us.
YUP!!!!
Adam, do you have anymore kits for. 113h?
Quote from: Fish67 on July 15, 2017, 08:00:13 PM
Adam, do you have anymore kits for. 113h?
I will have 113H and 114H/115 kits available after next weekend.
Awesome! Can you please save me one 113h kit and one set of spare CF washers? Also, I sent you a PM about an offset handle for a 113h. I'll take all 3 items when the drag inserts are available. Thank you sir.
Quote from: Fish67 on July 15, 2017, 08:33:41 PM
Awesome! Can you please save me one 113h kit and one set of spare CF washers? Also, I sent you a PM about an offset handle for a 113h. I'll take all 3 items when the drag inserts are available. Thank you sir.
I have the handle set aside for you already, I just havent had time to fit it yet. I will invoice you when its all ready to ship.
Quote from: Three se7ens on July 16, 2017, 02:17:54 AM
Quote from: Fish67 on July 15, 2017, 08:33:41 PM
Awesome! Can you please save me one 113h kit and one set of spare CF washers? Also, I sent you a PM about an offset handle for a 113h. I'll take all 3 items when the drag inserts are available. Thank you sir.
I have the handle set aside for you already, I just havent had time to fit it yet. I will invoice you when its all ready to ship.
Thank you sir!
Do you still make these?
Quote from: SuperDave4x4 on October 29, 2018, 07:46:32 PM
Do you still make these?
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