in many past reel repair posts, you've seen me open up bearings to clean them, but i've never had a complete discussion of one this topic before. i'd like to do this now. it's a post that is long overdue. for many reels, bearings are the weak link. they are often the first things that will fail. i will start out by saying that shimano recognized this and was the first company to actually do something about it. as of yet, no other major reel manufacturers have followed suit. i hope that will change.
basic fishing reel bearing design is fairly simple. you've got an outer race, and inner race, the balls themselves and a cage. the material almost always stainless steel.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/bearing3_sm.jpg)
the biggest difference between bearings is the "side plate." avet and accurate bearings are sealed. the seal itself is often blue or black, and is made up of a phosphor bronze and plastic laminate that is simply pressed in.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/bearings.jpg)
the majority of reel manufacturers use bearings with one of two types of metal shields. the first is a pressed in metal shield.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/Stainless-steel-Bearings-608ZZ.jpg)
the second type of metal shield is held in by a retaining ring. when you see a bearing with a metal shield, it's a 50:50 chance of seeing one or the other.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/biltin_0001.jpg)
and then there are shimano's open bearings. they are touted as having more chromium for greater corrosion resistance and are packed with a thin grease.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/arb2.jpg)
so there you have it, your four types of bearings; plastic seal, pressed in metal shield, retaining ring with metal shield, and open.
when servicing a bearing, the first thing you have to do is PULL IT OUT!!!!!! trust me on this one. there is nothing more frustating than having to pull a rusted bearing out of a rusted bearing cap. to this end, i made a couple of bearing pullers. the small one can be made from coat hanger material or stainess steel welding rod. one end is hammered flat, then bent to a 90 degree angle, and then shaped on a small bench grinder. it works pretty darned good!
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1616.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1617.JPG)
the other is made from a penn handle nut wrench. yeah, don't throw these away anymore! shape it the same way.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1618.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1619.JPG)
the other problem situation is specifically with some of the shimano reels. here is an old calcutta 400 spool. note that the bearing (well, bushing, in this case) is held in by a cross pin.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1593.JPG)
we're going to remove the cross pin with a special tool. it's a ratty old pair of vise grips with a slot cut in one side.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1594.JPG)
oh, c'mon, stop laughing! it's all i had laying around and i'm on a budget! anyway, i cut a slot in the side with a bench grinder. if i had to do it over again, i'd use the cut off wheel from my dremmel.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1595.JPG)
you just press the pin out half way, the pull it out the rest of the way and be careful not to mangle it up. remember, you need that pin!
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1596.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1597.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1598.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1599.JPG)
see, nice and clean! now find a bearing with the same dimensions as this old bushing, say 5x11x3 mm, press the pin back in and you're in business!
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1602.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1603.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1604.JPG)
nice, huh!
ok, back to business. let's all agree for the moment that we are going to clean out the bearing and we're going to to it my way. well, that means removing the seal or shield. we need a few more specialized tools. our first bearing is sealed. this one is either a piece of cake, or next to impossible. most are easy. you simply take a small scalpel (hey, one of the advantages of working in a hospital), slide the blade carefully underneath the shield, twist the blade just a little and the seal will pop out cleanly. so cleanly, in fact, that you should be able to pop it back it and it should still work perfectly. if you gouge the cage underneath you will have to replace the bearing, so be careful.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1611.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1612.JPG)
this is actually a bearing from the drive shaft of the smaller avet reels. newer bearings are easy to service. THE SEALS FROM BEARINGS AROUND THE DRIVE SHAFTS OF OLDER AVET REELS ARE NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO REMOVE. you will know quickly if you have old bearings or new ones.
to remove a metal shield that is pressed into the bearing, you need another specialized tool. this is an old screwdriver that i've ground to a nice long point. drive the point in between the shield and the inner race, the pry up the shield. it will be mangled at this point and will have to be discarded. this takes a light touch. drive the point in to far and you will mangle the cage and ruin the bearings. i tried using the point of a small swiss army knife for a bunch of small boca bearings and ruined the entire lot, about $100's worth. be careful!
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1613.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1614.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1615.JPG)
the last type is a bearing with a metal shield held in by a retaining ring. you need a small fish hook. see the end of the retaining ring? lift it up with the point of the fishhook right there. if you have trouble catching the end of the ring, get a sharper hook.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1605.JPG)
sometimes it will go flying, so hang on to it if you want to see it again.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1606.JPG)
lift up the shield with the scalpel and don't gouge anything inside.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1607.JPG)
want to reinstall the shield? simply put it back in place, then hold the retaining ring at the bottom, then push in the the right side, then the left side of the retaining ring and you're done.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1608.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1609.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1610.JPG)
now all the bearings are open. let's clean them up. first is the hemostat. this is the easiest way to hold a bearing.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1620.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1621.JPG)
now, to clean these things. i've tried a ton of different products. here's the short answer. it's crc carb cleaner. of all the products i've used, this carb cleaner has the most pressure, and pressure is everything. nothing else i've used works as well.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1625.JPG)
now, i've talked about "carb cleaner and compressed air" before and several guys jumped in and said "no compressed air." i want to know that i took what you said to heart. since finding the crc product, using lots of compressed air has not been necessary. so i now use the crc carb cleaner to clean the bearing, and only a gentle stream of compressed air to remove the carb cleaner.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1626.JPG)
now we get to lube them up. i was fiddling around with my "secret sauce" mix of corrosion x and shimano drag grease and it seems to stick fairly well. good protection, lousy freespool. typically i use corrosion x alone, um, in a reel x bottle. and for the bass guys, i have quantum's hot sauce, met-ol from smoothdrag.com and rocket fuel. lots of freespool, lousy protection.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1629.JPG)
to get the maximum amount of protection, i always go back to yamaha outboard engine grease.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1630.JPG)
i like to hand pack the bearings and replace the shields. it's the best way to avoid this.....
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/100_00781.jpg)
it's not necessary for any of you to maintain this type of inventory, but it might be a good idea to keep a couple of bearings as back up. it is very easy to damage a bearing while you're trying to pull the shield off. you do need to be careful.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_1628.JPG)
i order all of my bearings from smoothdrag.com. retail, you're looking $1-1.5k in bearings in the photo above. after dealing with bearing issues for all these years, i've come to a couple of conclusions. for lever drag reels, i like spool bearings that are open and lubed with corrosion x. same with star drag reels. for side plate bearings and drive shaft bearings, i like them packed with yamaha engine grease. if the shields or seals can be replace, all the better.
what i don't like is a bearing that has a seal or shield with only a light lube. once water gets inside, the bearing is toast. a shimano tld 15 has four bearings that cost $10-12 each. i've had reels that required replacements of all four. the avet sx, mx, jx and lx reels also have bearing issues. there are six and they are all sealed. i like to open up the two spool bearings, clean them out and lube them with corrosion x. the other four are opened, packed with yamaha engine grease, the seals are pressed back into place and the bearings are re-installed. i've even seen corroded bearings in accurate reels. the proceedure is the same as avet and i think it would greatly improve the reliability of the reel. yeah, working on lever drag reels is alot of work.
QuoteAlan, Great job & welcome. I have a problem & I did not know where else to post this. I cannot remove the L.S. bearing in my recently purchased 20 year old Penn 30TW. I am not trying to save the bearing... just want it out. I pried the cover off so I could get pliers on the inner ring but it won't budge. Any suggestions? dcottle
you need to make a lift bar. i just use this....
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/105_1112.JPG)
this works only for larger bearings. i angle the tip under the inside race and then rock the handle side to side. that lift's the bearing up, little by little. at some point, you can get a wide bladed screwdriver in and rock that side to side as well. this only works for larger bearings. for the smaller ones, i just stick the bearing puller in and try to give it a yank. if the worst of cases, i've had to drill a small hole in the back of the bearing cup and then use a punch to punch out the bearing. the bearing is obviously ruined, and the bearing cup now has a hole in it. before installing a new bearing, i add a little grease and maybe even a flat washer to keep the water out.
something else to consider. the bearing cup in the side plate of your international started out as a "slip fit." then they anodized the side plate, adding a few thousanths, and now you have a pressed fit. to make it a slip fit again, you need a little sand paper. i usually take the sanding wheel of my dremel and VERY CAREFULLY dremel away the anodizing back to a slip fit. obviously, you will seriously screw up your reel if you sand away too much. alan
QuoteAlan,
The L.S. bearing I was having trouble extracting on the Penn 30TW popped out after baking @ 250 deg. for 15 min. then slapping on a board.
Again Thanks.
Darrell
glad something worked!
Quote from: G.Billena on December 19, 2008, 07:15:55 AM
In regards to Ambassadeur 5500C foot#84-XXXX.Im wondering what are your views on upgrading the the worm drive to ball bearings as well as upgrading to a ball bearing idler gear.(seen at mikes reel repair)Will I be able to feel a big difference in performance or waste of money.
the trick is to clean everything out first, then see how far you can cast. i think that you will find that the reel will give you plenty of distance without the bearing. also, these little bearings get gummed up pretty quickly. after a few trips, they're working like bushings anyway.
so here is how i would approach the issue. first, clean out the pair of spool bearing and make sure they are perfectly smooth. assemble JUST the spool, the two bearings and the drive shaft. give the spool a spin. note how well it does, or does not, spin.
now install that white nylon click gear and spin the spool. does it slow down or spin the same? it if slows down, find a drill bit that is slightly bigger than the hole and ream out the soft nylon by hand. spin the spool again and we should be good.
next, disassembly the levelwind assembly, clean everything with carb cleaner (and an old toothbrush if needed), lube it with corrosion x and reassemble it. assemble the reel and give the spool a spin. looks good, huh!!!!!! go cast and let's see if you really need that ball bearing for the worm. alan
here's something new for you. if someone would have told me that dribbling some of this new lube through a set of bearings would increase the freespool time from 15 seconds to 360 seconds, i would have smiled politely and started backing up towards the nearest exit. i just cleaned out the bearings and levelwind assembly of an old ambassaduer, then lubed it and the spin time was equally amazing (for a levelwind). my concern remains saltwater corrosion resistance. i am going to start playing with this stuff in my own reels. i'll keep you posted.
not affilliated, etc.... alan
Quote
ok, now this is even more bizarre. after reassemblying the bare spool, i'm back down to 15 seconds of freespool. this is after cleaning and lubing the bearings with corrosion x, then letting it sit for several months before finally completing this post.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/0/1_29_01_09_9_51_20_1.jpeg)
before shipping the reel out, i decided to give it one more try and lubed it up with this stuff. i took both bearing out, stacked one on top of the other, then added some of this stuff down through the bearings. the freespool time jumped from 15 seconds to 3 minutes. i'm going to have to take a closer look at this stuff.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/0/1_29_01_09_9_51_23_2.jpeg)
Quote from: Caseyp on March 31, 2009, 03:36:17 PM
Alan, After reading your posts, I have started servicing my own reels. Many thanks for all of the information and tutorials. I am no longer afraid to open up these devices. I do have a question about where you get replacement bearing shields. I troll for tunas on the east coast, and prefer to load all of my bearings with grease. Do you have a source for replacement shields for those bearings I open up? Reels are Penn International 30(old post style) 30Ts, 30Ss, 50(old post style) 50SW and shimano Tiagra 30s, and TLD25s. Got a couple of each... Thanks again! Casey
you know, casey, i don't. if you have a bearing shield that is pressed in, the only way to remove it is to pry it out. you mangle it in the process. another alternative is to make a bearing packer. the design would be similar to the one used to pack wheel bearings for cars. i looked once and found nothing. it will probably have to be a custom item from a local machine shop. alan
Quote
hi alan, i was at ************** and we discussed that bearing issue. yes, you were mentioned and here's what i was told. supposedly the bearing manufacture feels the slightest grit/dust/particulate will damage the races causing the bearing to become inferior, therefore they'd rather risk "trapped water" then run an open bearing which may become "imperfect" due to environmental pollutants occurring inside the reel. i tired to remove the shield but there's no way i can use a sharp object to remove the clip. i wound up with a dremel and making a slit until the clip was cut and removed the shield. i'll start running an open bearing and see what happens....
yeah, but the bearings manufacturers are IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what a bunch of morons!!!!!!!!!!! the only environmental pollutant inside a reel is salt water. they've had it their way for long enough. their position has damaged the reputations of many reel companies.
Quote
I have a question about bearings with pressed in retainers. Your bearing tutorial didn't cover this.
The bearing I am speaking of is for a Daiwa Luna 103, part# G43-1001. It sits under the clutch cam. I think it is a drive brearing and not freespool type of bearing. My plan is to stuff it with grease for protection but, once I remove the shield it is toast and I will have an open bearing for its life. My recollection is that you reccomend leaving the shields on drive bearings for protection.
Is there a way of ensuring grease gets into the bearing without taking it apart?
This is the second one I am replacing on this reel. I hate to essentially tear the entire reel down to get to it and then spend the $10 for a replacement bearing.
Thanks
yeah, i know what you mean. you have to open up one side and press the grease, by hand, through to the other side. just pile the grease onto the open side and press with your finger, then add more and press more. you will eventually see grease squeezing out the other side. just like hand packing axle bearings for that car that you got when you were a kid!
Quote
Alan,
My brother and I own 8 or 9 Chronarch CH-100BSV reels. We mostly fish for speckled trout and redfish on the Texas coast. I'm sure you are familiar with the Shimano ARB shield-less bearings. I was a little skeptical at first, but these have performed very well for us. We rinse the reels with fresh water and apply Reel Magic after every saltwater exposure.
Today I decided to clean one of the reels. I disassembled the reel and removed all four ball bearings. They were in great shape but I decided to give them a few minutes in my ultrasonic cleaner anyway. I put them in the ultrasonic cleaner inside of a glass baby food jar filled with lighter fluid. I ran them for a 5 minute cycle and it absolutely trashed the bearings. Only the spool bearings will actually turn and they feel like sandpaper. The other two are basically seized. I have a small, inexpensive(lower power) ultrasonic cleaner.
What did I do here? Did the ultrasonic cleaner trash the Shimano ARB coating? Needless to say I was a little surprised with the outcome. I have had good luck with cleaning conventional SS bearings with this method.
Regards,
Mark
mark, i actually have an ultrasonic cleaner but have never cleaned bearings in them because it takes too long. i've always used carb cleaner and compressed air. lots of guys soak their bearings in lighter fluid overnight because they don't remove the shields. if you have the bearings in an ultrasonic there for less than hour, there really is no way that the soap in the ultrasonic cleaner could have damaged the bearings. if you left the bearings in overnight, then it could have. particularly if you put liquid laundry detergent in it. i use green soap and even that can damage a metal surface given enough time. honestly, my first guess would have been that the bearings were bad to begin with. i know you said that they were ok to start, but is that a possibility? alan
Quote
Alan, Thanks for the response. They were definitely not bad before I put them in. I soaked each one in lighter fluid for a few minutes and turned each one by hand under good lighting. I could see the inner and outer races clearly rotating. None of them ever felt and bit of roughness. I was very surprised then they came out so bad after the ultrasonic 'cleaning'.
Is there a good chat board that I could try to see if anyone else has seen this?
yes. here is the shimano support board at http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/forumdisplay.php?f=72 please let me know what bantam says! alan
Quote
I have been out in the garage checking out these bearings and I have to admit that I'm feeling pretty dumb right now. I was able to clean them and get them as smooth as new. I think I did not put them in the ultrasonic cleaner long enough and what I was feeling was dirt/salt in the bearing races.
Thanks for your quick responses. Its carb cleaner and compressed air for me from now on!
hey, i'm just glad it worked!
Quote from: Roger on December 13, 2009, 11:32:26 PM
Help Mr. Wizard, Got the reel apart, really pretty simple. Everything looks good, had a bunch of old nasty grease inside. Got one question. What is the best way to get the spool bearings out? I've played with them for a little while but I don't want to get too rough and tear one up.
make a little pry bar from an old penn wrench. http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=13.0 also, check the bearings. if they are already buggered up and will have to be replaced anyway, just pound them out. make sure you remove the click plate first, just incase yours has a retaining ring for the bearing. penn is kind of sneaky about that. if it's going to be easy, i'll just use the spool shaft to lightly tap it out. careful here. you don't want to cause any damage to either.
now, when penn machines the spools, they mill out the bearing cup so that you get a "slip" fit. after a couple of layers of anodizing, you sometimes have a "pressed" fit, or no fit at all. after tearing out my hair on a few reels, i've finally started using a dremmel with a sanding reel to remove the anodizing in the bearing cup and restore it to a "slip" fit. jeez, you've gotta be careful here as well. if you screw this up by removing too much material, you may have to buy a new spool.
Quote
Alan,
Thanks for the heads up on the Reel +
I just re-tuned that green 5500 I pictured in that Abu Hot Rod thread... it's got 6 bearings (not counting the 4 in the handle). I have gotten 33 and one half bumps...not bad. That is using the same spin the spool with your finger test. I also put in a set of Boca Lightning Abec 5's in favor of the stock bearings. Granted a 5500 is a 3/8" less in width than a 6500, 33 bumps I think is safe to say is SMOKIN. I hope I can keep it under control on the river! I just put an Avail Mag Kit on my other hotrod 5500...looking forward to trying that this weekend.
Quote from: BigT on January 16, 2010, 10:58:26 AM
Hi Alan, I notice that the reels you've showcased so far are predominantly overhead reels but I'm sure you have a wealth of knowledge about spinning reels too... hence my 2 questions if you're open to sharing your ideas around them?? Firstly, I've had conflicting suggestions about the lubing of clutch bearings in spin reels (I guess overheads would be much the same situation)... some manufacturers suggest a film coat of grease... some say no lubrication at all... all say don't use oil as it can cause the anti reverse to fail... etc, etc, etc. What would you recommend for clutch bearings? Secondly, a lot of spin reels these days have ridiculously small bearings in the line roller assembly. I've been packing them with grease for protection but again, what would you recommend please? Cheers, BigT
accurate did a fair amount of research with anti-reverse roller bearings and found that corrosion x was the best overall product. shimano is now using a thinner grease on their roller bearings. it appears to be a mix of their standard teflon drag grease mixed with an unknown oil (presumably a compatible teflon oil). it's a no win situation. if you leave these anti-reverse roller bearings bone dry, they hold great, but the plain steel (not stainless) needles will rust immediately. if you pack grease into the bearings or add an oil of any type, the inner tube in the roller bearing will slip at a lower range. see what i mean? either way, you loose.
so personally, what i use is just plain old corrosion x. it will slip under an excessive load. it is now critical that your drag system function properly and not seize up. there is simply a physical limit to what these reels can do. and the reason that reels have been pushed so hard is that they have fallen behind. reel performance has perhaps doubled at best. line performance (mono versus spectra) has improved 5 fold. we need reels that have a 5 fold increase in performance as well.
Quote
what's your opinion of replacing the stainless bearings with ceramic or even titanium ones? There must be a downside to it or manufacturers would have jumped on them to make advertising claims of corrosion-proof virtually maintenance-free bearings that last forever! I value your opinions. Thanks for your efforts to make us more informed anglers. And I have had to replace a few bearings on my platinum reels in what seemed to be a short time frame. Cheers...
Craig
you know, craig, i'm really not sure how corrosion resistant they really are. i really believe that the non-spool bearing can be the cheap abec-5 stainless as long as you pack them fully with grease. it makes sense to me?
anyway, the ceramics are no deal. all ceramic bearings are prohibitively expensive. bearings with just ceramic balls have stainless steel races and cages with rust just as quick as all stainless bearings, so throw that out the window. titanium i know nothing about. i would ask about hardness and corrosion resistance and the main factors. if you find more info about titanium, can you let me know? thanks! alan
more archived stuff ........ ;D
Quote from: Nessie Hunter on April 19, 2011, 01:57:00 AM
Bobby, I may be able to shed a little light on that.
I probably work on more small reels then most. I know I do a ton of upgrades to Ceramic #7 spool bearings.......
Bass guys have a need for speed and bragging rights to how hot rodded their reels are!!
I have a Lot of bass anglers & Guides in my friend/customer list..
5 yrs ago almost all the reels had a long/full shaft that went from end cap to end cap..
Through the pinion gear.....
Almost all had 2 bearings @ 3x10x4 mm one at each end up to 700 size round reels...
But time marches on and they get more high tech each year...
The last 5 yrs have had a lot of innovation and Copy Cat-ing in bass size reels...
The reels with a short shaft (true freespool type) have 2 size bearings, the normal is a 3x10x4 at left plate and the short shaft has the second at rght end of spool/pinion,
the shaft has a shoulder and bearing is held in with a shaft pin (dreaded, hated pin)...
That one is a 5x11x4 bearing to fit the larger Shaft Dia there..
You can tell by taking off the spool tension cap, if there is a T shaped plastic dead shaft (short) in it, instead of the end of the spool shaft. The reel has the 2 diff size bearings & short spool shaft...
Or look at the particular schematic for that model....
Now some Shimano, Daiwa etc etc reels have a full length shaft that goes from end to end..
BUT have a Pinion bearing also.
This is again held at rght side of spool with that same dang hated shaft pin...
(the shaft pin also engages the pinion gear)
So these reels actually have 3 spool bearings. 2 @ 3x10x4 & 1 @ 5x11x4...
Have to look at schematic or know the model..
I suffer from CRS and have not got up to speed on which is which....
So now you have 2 diff size spool bearings..
Lets go one step further..
The Core probably has a small Left side plate area, and takes a smaller bearing, 'I assume' (we all know what that means) that to keep some structural strength or less weight?? in a smaller size end cap/plate.????
Left side Plate bearing = 3x8x4 for the smaller size end cap reels...
Total ~ we now have 3 Bearing sizes in the newer model & smaller size (bass) Low Profile & round reels.....
3x10x4 mm ~ 5x11x4 mm ~ 3x8x4 mm.............
No way for my low budget, CRS suffering self, to keep up with them....
I need to make a list and keep it current...
I often order bearings before I get the reels. For quick turn around....
So I sort of need to know what size and how many they take..
A few years ago, I could get 3x10x4 for everything up to 700 size round reels -- Not any more!!!
Poor Dawn!!!
I have to look at schematics (which dont give size) and or rely on Dawn to know what goes where....
She is a blessing.......
So that is why your getting 3 different Parts numbers at Shimano for Spool bearings...
They really are diff sized bearings.....
.
Hi,
This ideas is been inside my head for about a year now.
Will Bearings used in RC Cars, Choppers etc will work in reels ? (Mainly, Baitcasters for Bass)
Does Fishing reel bearing require a "special" design that is not present in other bearings (ex. RC Bearings, Normal Bearings) ?
Im in china now and acquiring the right bearings is quite hard to do locally and was thinking of alternatives.
I see Boca, VXB, ZPI, NMB etc also make Bearings for RC Cars so the idea that these bearing are interchange is possible ?
Need experienced insights/opinions from the guys.
I have currently one reel with a Tamiya TRF bearing installed in the Drive Gear and its working (so far so good).
Planning to try using them in spool bearing once I find the right size.
Want to check if anyone has done it before.
Thanx.
The two types of bearings normally used in Reels are 'Radial' bearings & one way, 'Roller bearings' (anti Reverse).
'Radial' bearings are interchangeable if the size is right... ID x OD x thickness...
You can see the diff types (Steel, Chrome, Hybrid, Full Ceramic) at Boca Bearing site...
If course the Full Ceramic can be expensive and way overkill for normal Reel use.
$79 to $100+ Each...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgbWhXc6_SE&feature=related
I just thought this was kind of cool, I know fishing reels don't have 8 identical bearings like a skateboard but when I'm cleaning bearings I wish they did.
Very good knowlege for reel bearings,alan. you looks more professinal than us. :-\
What do you use to lubricate anti-reverse bearings in bait casters and spinning reels?
Reel X is good, or TSI 301 if you have it.... Light oil, not grease!!
The rollers have to move slightly (not just roll) and grease is to thick to allow them that freedom...
If you have a one way Roller that is slipping or not working, try cleaning it out real good and adding a couple of drops of Quality light oil...
If that doesnt work, they are probably to worn and need replaced...
.
Thanks for taking the time Nessie.
Hey alan, i was doing a service on my torium 20 was just doing the bearings. I replaced the factory bearings with the sealed ones from smothdrag. I've pulled the bearings apart cleaned and oiled them. Now heres my question, in your tutorial on bearings you said
Quoteto get the maximum amount of protection, i always go back to yamaha outboard engine grease.
now this is were im confused, do you pack the bearings back into the (left side of the spool) with grease? Secondly,I put the spool back together on to the frame to test the free spool and it doesn't sound smooth and gets about 20sec of freespool, with out the pinion or anything else attached. Any thoughts to better the free spool?
On the Toriums we usually open clean and oil the spool bearings. These bearings include the left side plate bearing and any bushings or bearings under the tension knob. Any other bearings are packed with grease.
Your free spool should be fairly quiet. Be shur you cleaned and oiled the left side plate bearing and lossen the tension knob when you check free spool. A good thing to do is to also clean the bore of the pinion of any grease or dirt. Oil the spool shaft with TSI or a good light reel oil and you should be good to go. If the noise continues you may have to go back and re clean the bearings and/or replace the offending bearing.
Good luck,
Jim N.
Thanks, thats what i was i thinking with the bearings. I think i got a bigger problem after reasembling. In free spool, when i turn the handle the spool starts turning slowly. I've cleaned the pinion gears(even polished the insides),cleaned and oiled the spool shaft. I can hear a slight rub sound when i turn the handle. Im guessing the shaft is bent, i removed the tension cap and spun the spool and it seemed fine. Looking closer i noticed a tiny woble in the shaft(very sublte). what do you guys think? I dont have a lathe to fix it. It free spools ok, should i just call it good? how much is a new spool assembly?
Any chance you may have bent the spool shaft when removing the bearing retaining pin?
Its possible, I cleaned it out again and removed the side plates on the bearings and everthing is working good. Maybe i got something in the bearings first time i cleaned them. Im looking to get a better oil, something faster. Im using reel x right now, was looking at the Ts301? or something like that. I've read about xtreme + but this is for my jigstick and want something that holds up better in the salt. Any suggestions?
reel x and corrosion x are quick and easy. stick with those for now. tsi 301 is pretty expensive.
and welcome! alan
TSI301 has been the best that we have used. With ReelX and CorrosionX the next best.
true, but it's still pretty expensive. ;D
Yeah it looks a little pricy, but i only service my own gear so it should last me a while. Do you use the aerosoles or the liquid stuff? Do you order it from there website?
yup! http://www.tsi301.com/
Thanks alan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8wYATj-UlE&list=UUvc3Fd47QtOiPWGGE0p0zPA&index=61&feature=plcp
nice!
noob question,
how do i lubricate bearings with corrosion x?
do i just point and spray or use just a little, as i have heard that only a small amount (a drop or two) should be used on bearings
regards
i just drizzle it through and let the excess drain out over an old rag.
thanks alan
i was thinking that it was blasted through the bearings and then air was used to blow the remnants out.
cheers
Alan, I've been servicing a couple of penn internations and have pulled the metal sheilds off one side of the bearing and will pack with grease as these are my trolling gear. The sheilds are pressed in and are damaged once there are removed so I can't reinstall, should I remove the sheild from both sides or just the one side?
Thanks
Peter
you need a bearing packer. i am hoping that tom will get them done soon. i have been out for quite a while.
So Alan I preume that means don't take the sheilds off the other side of the bearings as the sheilds are damaged in the process and can't go back on and wait for a bearing packer?
Thanks
Peter
G'day Peter,
A bearing packer can be used effectively on shielded bearings.
However, I remove all shields and replace only occasionally.
If you're keeping these well maintained, ditch the shields, pack 'em with grease and you're done... ;)
Good luck, Justin
the idea is to have shields on the bearings to hold in the grease. the pressed in shields pose a particular problem. that is why the bearing packer is essential.
I've only just read this thread after servicing three reels. On all three reels I've removed all bearing shields and hand packed with grease or corrosion x (depending on bearing type). Now I'm freaking out a bit as I've discarded all the shields... surely if I continue to clean and regrease regularly there shouldn't be too much of an issue?
Cheers,
Saul
correct. if you are going to be serving alot of reels, a bearing packer is really helpful.
I'm a greenhorn asking a question, so please forgive me if this has been covered somewhere else. Ive been reading a lot of posts on here and have come to the conclusion that I should pack all the bearings with grease except for the spool bearings. Is this correct? If so, is this the same for all types of fishing reels (freshwater, saltwater, Spinning, Baitcasting)? I specifically have an abu garcia revo sx and revo s for fresh water and the occasional saltwater.
Love this site, alot of good information to absorb. Thanks!!!!!!!!
for good freespool, that is correct. and welcome!!!!! ;D
Now i want to ask the common issues that i found in cheap spinning reels and Okuma's spinning reels that i own. ???
The bearings (left and right) on the drive gear was stuck and i dont know how to remove it from the drive gear. on the cheap reels- i do shortcut... i use files to reduce the drive gear size a few microns and it works.. but i dont want to do this on my okuma cedros :(
i wonder what fellas here have other than files to remove the drive gear bearings...
thank You! ;D
Assuming I can get an open box wrench between the bearing and the gear, I place the box wrench under the bearing and use a rubber or wooden mallet (back of my screw driver) and tap the gear out. Some have been rusted to the shaft of the gear and that is when I had broken the outer race and heated the inner race with a propane torch then used a vise grip to grab onto the inner race and rotated the gear by hand or a strap wrench until it twists off. If that doesn't work, them my last resort is the dremel with a cutoff wheel.
Excellent thread this, very helpful!
A suggestion- rather than using a hook to remove shields from bearings, what about a pin vice? I removed my first ever bearing shield today and found a hook very fiddly and started to get cramp in my hand, so I got my pin vice and put a suitable sized sewing needle into it... hey presto!
Shields off makes a big difference for cleaning and oiling, runs easier too.
i'll try it. i have a pin vise somewhere.
Quote from: doncharron on January 11, 2013, 10:36:57 PM
I'm a greenhorn asking a question, so please forgive me if this has been covered somewhere else. Ive been reading a lot of posts on here and have come to the conclusion that I should pack all the bearings with grease except for the spool bearings. Is this correct? If so, is this the same for all types of fishing reels (freshwater, saltwater, Spinning, Baitcasting)? I specifically have an abu garcia revo sx and revo s for fresh water and the occasional saltwater.
Love this site, alot of good information to absorb. Thanks!!!!!!!!
[/quote]
ADDING TO HIS QUESTION:
I thought all bearings have to be packed. Now I'm
really confused.
What bearings is what? And
HOW do I tell the difference? I read above: NOT TO PACK THE SPOOL BEARINGS. I'm new to reels. And I am going to take apart my reel by trusting the information I get here on this site. Thank You
Hi everyone. I need some well-needed advice and will greatly appreciate your input. I have a few new and "barely used" reels that I, myself, will not use until I take them apart, inspect and properly lubricate the components......especially the bearings. The new reels are Okuma Trio-30S, Okuma Cavalla 20 and a Tica Fishmaster 107B fly reel.The "barely used" reels are Okuma Citrix 237 Ci-Vlx and an Okuma Trio-20. So 2 spinners, 1 baitcast, 1 fly and 1 off-shore. I have read a post in another forum where an angler removed all of the bearing shields in all of his reels and never had a problem with them. I have also read that the shields trap water and debris inside the bearings but also have read that the shields protect the bearings from debris (just debris, no water mentioned). I understand some anglers also run bearings with just one shield. I realize bearings need to be changed out every once and a while but, of course like many, I want to get the most mileage out of them before I do so. I don't want to over-think this but I'm afraid I have. Now it has become a confusing topic for me and would like to know about your personal experience on it. Mr. Tani always runs his spool bearings open and I will follow his lead; everything else is a mystery to me.
If the metal shielded bearings have retainer rings, you can remove the covers, pack non spool bearings with grease and replace the shields without damaging them. If they don't have retainer rings and are metal it is likely you will damage the shield(s) while removing them so you can just pull one shield on one side and pack with grease and place it with the open side facing in. A light covering of grease on the outside of the shield will help keeping water and debris out as well. Many people like to remove the shields (both sides) on the spool bearings and lube w/your favorite oil (I.e. TSI321, speed X, corrosion X, hot sauce , etc.) and reinstall the bearings open. This helps with freespool, allows for easy access to relube, and will allow water to drain/dry out of the bearing(s). If the reel is for trolling only applications, where freespool is not a concern, packing the bearings with grease and leaving the shields intact, or at least the outter one is preferred. If you get an Alan Tani bearing packer, you can pack bearings full of grease w/o removing the shields. Some bearings have rubber seals instead of metal, these typically do a better job of keeping debris and water out and can generally be removed and replaced w/o damaging them. You may also come accriss bearings that have a Delron or plastic race and integral side shield, which can not be removed. These bearings can only be opened on one side. Some guys just leave all of their bearings open...as is typically the case with all of shimano's ARB (ceramic hybrid) bearings, with the idea being the shields can not trap debris/water inside. Hope that makes sense?
Quote from: Tightlines666 on July 29, 2014, 12:28:44 AM
Hope that makes sense?
It does. So no harm if stock bearings are unshielded just as long as they are properly lubed, inspected and maintained?
As usual, I am late to the party, but I had to comment on the Shimano drive bearing issue.
I fished Shimano Calcutta's for several years. After awhile, the IAR bearings started sounding like threshing machines. As I had with other reels, I lubricated the IAR bearings.
Suffice to say, they never worked right again. Even with the lightest oil I tried that reduced the noise, the IAR gave up at the most inopportune moment (typically attempting to set the hook on a fish).
In the summertime the problem was infrequent. In hot weather, it was no issue at all. In winter time (temps below 40 degrees), it was a constant threat (like 50/50).
Sometime during my Calcutta days, I attended a tackle show here in Dallas, and was able to speak to a Shimano rep about the problem. He informed me that the IAR bearing was to be run dry, even though it made noise. I guess I missed that warning in the fine print.
After that, I decided to put the Calcutta's away. Unfortunately, I owned 9 of them before I realized I would not be able to use them long term. They still look great on the shelf. Most of them are still in their original boxes. Before long they will be 20 years old, and will have passed their 15th anniversary sitting on the shelf.
Quote from: amoebasurgeon on July 29, 2014, 12:43:19 AM
Quote from: Tightlines666 on July 29, 2014, 12:28:44 AM
Hope that makes sense?
It does. So no harm if stock bearings are unshielded just as long as they are properly lubed, inspected and maintained?
No harm whatsoever.
Shields generally are fool's gold. You may think they are offering some kind of protection (and they may a little from a little salt) but they are worse than none with a lot of salt. They just deceive you that things are fine behind them, but in reality lots of saltwater is being held behind the shield and insidious destruction is going on (and you can be sure a factory bearing has little or no grease behind that shield).
I don't mind the rubber seals (shields) as they do add the small measure of protection, but are easily popped and the bearing repacked if you find any soggy grease inside. Popping the shields on other bearings is a pita, imo.
Quote from: Unutt on December 29, 2014, 08:52:02 PM
As usual, I am late to the party, but I had to comment on the Shimano drive bearing issue.
I fished Shimano Calcutta's for several years. After awhile, the IAR bearings started sounding like threshing machines. As I had with other reels, I lubricated the IAR bearings.
Suffice to say, they never worked right again. Even with the lightest oil I tried that reduced the noise, the IAR gave up at the most inopportune moment (typically attempting to set the hook on a fish).
In the summertime the problem was infrequent. In hot weather, it was no issue at all. In winter time (temps below 40 degrees), it was a constant threat (like 50/50).
Sometime during my Calcutta days, I attended a tackle show here in Dallas, and was able to speak to a Shimano rep about the problem. He informed me that the IAR bearing was to be run dry, even though it made noise. I guess I missed that warning in the fine print.
After that, I decided to put the Calcutta's away. Unfortunately, I owned 9 of them before I realized I would not be able to use them long term. They still look great on the shelf. Most of them are still in their original boxes. Before long they will be 20 years old, and will have passed their 15th anniversary sitting on the shelf.
Pretty much once they start making noise they are done as micro pitting has degraded the performance of the needles. The surface of the needles in a one way bearing must be immaculate for ideal function.
I would rather use Corrosion-x and some light grease in there than run them dry at the risk of gumming them up in the cold. A dry one way bearing in a handle is a recipe for rust and a quick trip to the repair center. Fortunately in California and in warmer areas where I fish cold is not an issue for me.
My contacts at Accurate and Penn have always advocated protective lube in one way bearings. Shimano spinners are definitely to be left dry however.
If you replace the one way bearings on your Calcuttas and protect them with lube you should be able to fish them. You can try Cal's cold weather purple grease (which is fine for general protection) cut with a little corrosion-x and be fine I would hope.
Quote from: Unutt on December 29, 2014, 08:52:02 PM
As usual, I am late to the party, but I had to comment on the Shimano drive bearing issue.
I fished Shimano Calcutta's for several years. After awhile, the IAR bearings started sounding like threshing machines. As I had with other reels, I lubricated the IAR bearings.
Suffice to say, they never worked right again. Even with the lightest oil I tried that reduced the noise, the IAR gave up at the most inopportune moment (typically attempting to set the hook on a fish).
In the summertime the problem was infrequent. In hot weather, it was no issue at all. In winter time (temps below 40 degrees), it was a constant threat (like 50/50).
Sometime during my Calcutta days, I attended a tackle show here in Dallas, and was able to speak to a Shimano rep about the problem. He informed me that the IAR bearing was to be run dry, even though it made noise. I guess I missed that warning in the fine print.
After that, I decided to put the Calcutta's away. Unfortunately, I owned 9 of them before I realized I would not be able to use them long term. They still look great on the shelf. Most of them are still in their original boxes. Before long they will be 20 years old, and will have passed their 15th anniversary sitting on the shelf.
Sounds like my experience with anything marked shimano!!
OK, super N00B question. I know the spool bearings are the ones I should remove shields, clean, and lube. Everything else I should grease. Which ones are the spool bearings? :D
Quote from: lonehawkstation on August 15, 2015, 10:11:28 AM
OK, super N00B question. I know the spool bearings are the ones I should remove shields, clean, and lube. Everything else I should grease. Which ones are the spool bearings? :D
Not to worry, and not a "noob" question at all, more of a "newbie" question and we like those ;D.
The spool bearings are fitted *inside* the spool. Other bearings are fitted in the side plates themselves. The shaft that the spool rides on does go into the right and left sides, but the shaft does not rotate, other stuff does when the reel is "in gear". During casting the spool rests on the bearings inside it and the other bearing have no affect on casting. They just support stuff under load.
Packing the bearings is the easy part. What I want to know is how do I get the bearings out of both my 4/0 and 9/0 Penn Senators?
Quote from: Eddie K on August 28, 2015, 06:37:11 AM
Packing the bearings is the easy part. What I want to know is how do I get the bearings out of both my 4/0 and 9/0 Penn Senators?
Look through the Senator tutorials. Sometimes a homemade bearing puller is needed as well as heat/cold and oil cycles.
I tried the homemade bearing tool. No luck. How do you remove that shield off of the bearing cap? This bearing cap shield is the hardest part of the job.
it's a challenge for all of us..... :-\
Thank you for letting me know that I am not the only one. I went back and tried again, only this time, I was successful. Unfortunately during the removal process, the bearing shields had gotten damaged, its not the end of the world. I removed the one damaged shield on the bearings, packed them with grease, filled the cups with grease, and placed the bearings open side first into the bearing cups. Lastly, I put the bearing retainer back in place.
Your a genius Alan. This is a great thread, very informative and very detailed. Excellent information for all reel repairmen and repairwomen. Thumbs up, nice job. You definitely covered all the bases from A to Z.
Haven't read this post in a while, can't take the time right now to re-read it, I hope this wasn't already mentioned. If I don't put this here now I'll forget.
Picked up a 550SS and last night I tore it down and played with the bearings. I was having trouble getting the shield off. I don't have compressed air, I have Dust-off, and directing a sharp jet of air to one side increases the pressure within the bearing and lifts the shield off 180 from where the jet is directed. Worked every time. Kind of discovered it by mistake. Hope this helps someone.
Sid
Quote from: sdlehr on January 21, 2016, 06:32:46 PM
Haven't read this post in a while, can't take the time right now to re-read it, I hope this wasn't already mentioned. If I don't put this here now I'll forget.
Picked up a 550SS and last night I tore it down and played with the bearings. I was having trouble getting the shield off. I don't have compressed air, I have Dust-off, and directing a sharp jet of air to one side increases the pressure within the bearing and lifts the shield off 180 from where the jet is directed. Worked every time. Kind of discovered it by mistake. Hope this helps someone.
Sid
Nice tip Sid, thanks.
What kind of shield was it?
Did it trash the shield?
Steve
Quote from: swill88 on January 21, 2016, 10:26:52 PM
What kind of shield was it?
Did it trash the shield?
Steve
All three were metal shields held in by a retaining ring. It did nothing but lift the shield up so I could access the insides. They all went back together just fine.
Sid
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27523346/IMG_7502.jpg)
While servicing my Certate I found that 1 of the main gear bearings is a bit noisy(right) when compared to completely new spare bearing from daiwa(left).
These are pressed shield bearings. At first, I've removed just one seal, soaked and cleaned in white spirit but it became much more noisy than before.
Then I removed the second shield and when dry - it spins fast and freely but when greased it has some r-r-r sound. I've used a ReelX grease-oil mix.
The question is HOW to determine when bearing is went kaput or just needs re-lubrication? What variables should I consider, when supposedly healthy bearing is noisy after thorough cllubricatingicating?
BTW found this device. Any thoughts on how efficient in cleaning shielded bearing would it be?
https://youtu.be/RPmkx2AyklY (https://youtu.be/RPmkx2AyklY)
Quote from: DavidKa on February 02, 2016, 08:34:15 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27523346/IMG_7502.jpg)
While servicing my Certate I found that 1 of the main gear bearings is a bit noisy(right) when compared to completely new spare bearing from daiwa(left).
These are pressed shield bearings. At first, I've removed just one seal, soaked and cleaned in white spirit but it became much more noisy than before.
Then I removed the second shield and when dry - it spins fast and freely but when greased it has some r-r-r sound. I've used a ReelX grease-oil mix.
The question is HOW to determine when bearing is went kaput or just needs re-lubrication? What variables should I consider, when supposedly healthy bearing is noisy after thorough cllubricatingicating?
BTW found this device. Any thoughts on how efficient in cleaning shielded bearing would it be?
https://youtu.be/RPmkx2AyklY (https://youtu.be/RPmkx2AyklY)
When is a bearing "kaput" ???
When whatever noise it makes or friction caused is unacceptable to the owner. :D
I have used old Penn Reels with the main bearing completely seized up, and the pinion still turned mostly freely inside with the bearing frozen into a "bushing". The reel was completely fish-able.
The impression I get from the reel repair pros is anything other than completely silent operation is replaced (after all, their customer pays for it...). But reality is a tiny bit of noise probably has little affect and can be tested in use to see if it amounts to much friction or bother. The biggest trouble is they tend to degrade further faster than a healthy bearing...which is likely why the pros replace them right away.
But I am really trying to say that you have to decide for yourself when it is done, there is no hard and fast rule unless you are doing it for someone counting on (and paying for) your work. Basically, whenever you can't stand the bearing anymore in your own reels. Noisy bearings still catch fish until the balls completely disintegrate or get frozen into a bushing.
best
Thanks John.
Can't agree more - everything is subjective :D
BTW I will soon receive that japanese bearing gadget and will update on how efficient it is.
I'm not sure how it will deal with sealed bearings (got some "shooshers" for testing) but I believe that cleaning open bearings and relubing them, will be easier and less messy.
Quick update
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27523346/IMG_8285.jpg)
Just a few words regarding that gadget - VERY useful for cleaning. Didn't find brake cleaner spray so I've used white spirit+compressed air.
Pretty convenient for lubing sealed bearings... but a lot of grease is going to be wasted.
As I found a good source for HQ bearings with removable shields, probably this little thing is going to eBay...
The bearings are NMB(Minebea) DDL series. Stainless, silent, smooooth. 300-400YEN each before proxy fees and shipping.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27523346/IMG_8171.jpg)
Cheers
I bought a complete set of bearings for my Big Everol's. They came from the factory in Italy.
There are five different sizes in the 18 and 20/0 two speed.
The only markings on them are S6903Z, S6902Z ect.
Is there any way to tell who made them? These are made anywhere from Hong Kong to Germany.
Since they came from Italy, I'm guessing Germany. Any Help will be appreciated.
They have the press in shields and cost me $100 for the set.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on June 17, 2016, 04:16:45 AM
I bought a complete set of bearings for my Big Everol's. They came from the factory in Italy.
There are five different sizes in the 18 and 20/0 two speed.
The only markings on them are S6903Z, S6902Z ect.
Is there any way to tell who made them? These are made anywhere from Hong Kong to Germany.
Since they came from Italy, I'm guessing Germany. Any Help will be appreciated.
They have the press in shields and cost me $100 for the set.
Hi Daron, if there are no markings on the bearings, they are likely custom made for Everol and with no makers mark it's all a guess. The folks at Everol would know, if you could get them to spill the beans. :D
Ted
I don't want to push my luck with them Ted. They have been very good to me lately.
I did a little research and most bearings in these particular sizes have a ZZ designation at the end or have rubber seals.
I think they are made in Germany.
https://www.kugellager-shop.net/
Dude, not even I know that, or if I did I have forgotten. Those are completely normal class P5 bearings, sourced in Europe from the same supplier for many years. I have no idea where they are actually made. Even the European bearing giants like SKF and INA have factories all over the world. The designations mentioned are only indicative of type and spec. S for stainless, Z for metal shield and the numbers show type and size. They are not custom made.
.
I figured as much Robert, I just wanted to see if anyone knew something about them.
Robert is correct they are a standard bearing grade 5. Stainless steel with metal shields. They are a metric size also.
Mike
I have daiwa saltist 20 hc. Does changing the bushing in cast control knob to a ball bearing will do any changes or benefit/s? Or it is not necessary to upgrade? Thank you
Vhon
Quote from: Vjtrey1 on August 09, 2016, 08:13:07 PM
I have daiwa saltist 20 hc. Does changing the bushing in cast control knob to a ball bearing will do any changes or benefit/s? Or it is not necessary to upgrade? Thank you
Vhon
This post belongs in the Daiwa section but to answer you the bushing makes no effective difference. Properly lubing your bearings will have the most potential benefit. That bushing only supports the spool shaft under load, not during regular casting.
Have found the easiest way to remove a stuck bearing is to heat up the casing the the bearing is in.
Aluminum has a very high coefficient of expansion and a little heat goes a long way. The heat will
expand the housing that the bearing is in and the bearing will usually come out very easily. The steel
outer race of the bearing will expand too but not nearly as much as the aluminum will. Making extraction
possible.DO NOT use a flame to do this.
You will destroy your reel finish. Instead use very hot water. If it gets stubborn submerge the housing in
boiling water for about 15 seconds. If anything is stuck in aluminum try this trick , it will work
wonders.
Walt
I use a small "crack" torch many times to expand metal to get bearings loose and screws out on a reel. It's amazing how much heat you can use without damaging the finish on a reel.
Only when a heat gun won't do it!!
This seems like a good time to introduce one of my hacks. What we are going to do is make a rudimentary slide hammer to aid in bearing removal. All you need is a thick piece of coat hanger material and a file and a few minutes of your time. File a knob onto the end and bend some kind of a stop on the other end. Then all you need is a pair of pliers or adjustable wrench to use as your slide hammer. Works on all except the toughest of bearings, oh, just tilt it side to side as you tap the wrench up. Mine ended up around nine inches long. "Hamachi hacks". One more thing, take the bearing cup out of the plastic or graphite side plate to avoid cracking it on stubborn bearings, anchor the cup in a soft jawed vise.
Looks great!
I do have a set of bearing pullers that work on 90% of bearings but sometimes you need a trick like this.
It's funny how being away from the shop a few years lets one forget everything they ever learned...well...at least I have! :D I've been prying on a Mag 10 spool bearing for 2 weeks with no success. Seeing Hamachi's hack reminded me I could pull and twist on this little bearing for the next 5 years and prolly still never get it out of the cap without some "impact". I merely put the cap in the vise...clamped vise grips on my "puller"(fashioned from a nail)...and tapped the vice grips with a hammer. POP! Sheesh...::)
Hello all,
1st off, what an amazing website! Great job A.T.
ok, i recently purchased some ZPI Sic-bb bearings for my shimano.
do i install them "as is" or do i need to apply some lube?
Thanks
a light oil will do. been using TSI 321 the most, lately.
Quote from: mo65 on August 26, 2016, 07:56:39 PM
It's funny how being away from the shop a few years lets one forget everything they ever learned...well...at least I have! :D I've been prying on a Mag 10 spool bearing for 2 weeks with no success. Seeing Hamachi's hack reminded me I could pull and twist on this little bearing for the next 5 years and prolly still never get it out of the cap without some "impact". I merely put the cap in the vise...clamped vise grips on my "puller"(fashioned from a nail)...and tapped the vice grips with a hammer. POP! Sheesh...::)
Thanx Mo!
Mark
Hi,
May i know how a bad ball bearings feels or sound like? If you do not want to remove the shield on the ball bearings, how are you going to access the condition its in?
Put it on the end of a pencil and spin it. If it is anything other than smooth and quiet then there is to work to do. You are unlikely to be able to assess it by looking.
-steve
Last week I was fussing with some old clogged up bearings with non-removable shields in hopes of revitalizing them. I soaked them in mineral spirits and also in naphtha for a day or two with unfavorable results. Finally I put them in mineral spirits in a small pimento jar, put the lid on and shook them like crazy. The impact of the bearings banging against the sides of the jar really loosened up a lot of gunk. I repeated the process several times, each time in clean mineral spirits until no more gunk came out and the bearings spun smoothly and quietly. One of those light bulb moments for me.
Quote from: wfjord on February 05, 2018, 05:40:33 AM
Last week I was fussing with some old clogged up bearings with non-removable shields in hopes of revitalizing them. I soaked them in mineral spirits and also in naphtha for a day or two with unfavorable results. Finally I put them in mineral spirits in a small pimento jar, put the lid on and shook them like crazy. The impact of the bearings banging against the sides of the jar really loosened up a lot of gunk. I repeated the process several times, each time in clean mineral spirits until no more gunk came out and the bearings spun smoothly and quietly. One of those light bulb moments for me.
Yeah, I do this in a small glass spice jar as much as an indicator of serviceability as anything.
If the fluid becomes discolored by rust, that bearing is not a good candidate for salvage.
But if the fluid just turns milky, there is a good chance of that bearing being serviceable.
~
sometimes a tall skinny jar works better than a short wide one
(e.g., w/ nastier solvents, when you want to minimize the volume used)
capers & anchovies go well w/ pimentos ;)
came across this the other day and was interested to hear what you reel gurus had to say about it. a baitcaster reel with NO BEARINGS!!!! not even in the handles. seems like an amazing concept (no pun) if it works and lasts!!!
http://www.tackletour.com/preview13fishingconceptzreel.html
Quote from: kungajim on February 11, 2018, 08:00:36 PM
came across this the other day and was interested to hear what you reel gurus had to say about it. a baitcaster reel with NO BEARINGS!!!! not even in the handles. seems like an amazing concept (no pun) if it works and lasts!!!
http://www.tackletour.com/preview13fishingconceptzreel.html
I remember back to the time that bearings were just introduced into ABU baitcasters.
My reaction at the time was that the sintered bronze bushes worked perfectly well and the cost of replacement was only a few dollars compared to A$20 for a bearing. Great for free-spool - not so great on the wallet.
I have always viewed the use of bearings in exposed/vulnerable locations as ridiculous invitation to a roadside breakdown and their use in handles is just foolish. After all, what are we really trying to achieve here? - durable function or perpetual motion?
We have now reached an extreme where a bearing must be installed at every pivot point and in the age of bean counters where quality gives way to price point they are either weaker more vulnerable bearings or more expensive corrosion resistant bearings. They have now become sacrificial components to the free-spool gods along with that hard earned green stuff in your wallet.
Has the expensive bearing free-spool fashion trend run it's full course? A return to some sort of balance and sanity would be a welcome revolution in my books.
Quote from: exp2000 on February 11, 2018, 08:38:18 PM
Quote from: kungajim on February 11, 2018, 08:00:36 PM
came across this the other day and was interested to hear what you reel gurus had to say about it. a baitcaster reel with NO BEARINGS!!!! not even in the handles. seems like an amazing concept (no pun) if it works and lasts!!!
http://www.tackletour.com/preview13fishingconceptzreel.html
I remember back to the time that bearings were just introduced into ABU baitcasters.
My reaction at the time was that the sintered bronze bushes worked perfectly well and the cost of replacement was only a few dollars compared to A$20 for a bearing. Great for free-spool - not so great on the wallet.
I have always viewed the use of bearings in exposed/vulnerable locations as ridiculous invitation to a roadside breakdown and their use in handles is just foolish. After all, what are we really trying to achieve here? - durable function or perpetual motion?
We have now reached an extreme where a bearings must be installed at every pivot point and in the age of bean counters where quality gives way to price point they are either weaker more vulnerable bearings or more expensive corrosion resistant bearings. They have now become sacrificial components to the free-spool gods along with that hard earned green stuff in your wallet.
Has the expensive bearing free-spool fashion trend run it's full course? A return to some sort of balance and sanity would be a welcome revolution in my books.
What is this heresy??? :P
Before you know it we will be back to Jigmasters with bushings throwing surface iron.<<<<<because that is all you actually need to catch a lot of fish.
You should be burned at the stake as an offering to the Abec7 ceramic + TSI 321 and Mag Bearing gods. :D
ps Outdoor gear makers of all stripes learned long ago that the key is not selling people what they need, but what they want.
"30#'s of drag, lightweight, 10 minutes free spool, casts 200 yards, instant ant-reverse, thinner, stronger, sexier...with bikini clad models holding it next to inflated breasticles and 30 years younger than the guy buying it ...."
Basically anything to make a 60yo grand-dad forget he's not 16 any more. THAT'S what they are selling.
Not that there is anything wrong with that....:D
Well said exp2000. Bearings, bearings, bearings, it's all we hear. There are people in china getting rich manufacturing cheap bearings. That bearingless reel is a refreshing concept. We all know it should work just fine...millions of reels without bearings do! I doubt if it sells well though, as long as the buying public thinks a 15 bearing reel is what they need.8)
Btw...what is the best way to lube bushings? heat? soak? both? These are mostly bronze right?
Quote from: fishhawk on February 12, 2018, 02:40:28 AM
Btw...what is the best way to lube bushings? heat? soak? both? These are mostly bronze right?
That would work for sintered bronze bushes, I believe that's how the manufacturer does it?
http://www.nationalbronze.com/pmprocess.php
Didn't we just discuss this reel and their gimmick a few weeks ago?
-steve
Yup - I thought so
Quote from: oc1 on February 12, 2018, 06:24:25 AM
Didn't we just discuss this reel and their gimmick a few weeks ago?
-steve
sorry. I'm not on this site every day. but when I saw the article, I instantly thought of you guys. I'm still relatively new to the sport and every reel out there is trying to put another bearing somewhere...and faster retrieve speeds.
As noted in this thread, and others, generally the old school Penn Senator bearings hold up well. I have been through quite a few of them and never found a bad one until recently. The first one was obvious, the bearing was very rough and full of black ooze. No amount of cleaning and lubrication made it right, so replace. The second one, in a 113H, was a little more subtle. The free spool wasn't great and I thought there was some bearing noise. With the bearings out, I tried the cutip, and screwdriver push and turn method, but didn't feel anything abnormal. Could be that I haven't seen enough of these to pick up on it. By accident I did find a test that worked for me, this time at least. With the reel back together and in free spool, and while holding the reel in its normal position give the spool a spin and listen for the noise. Now turn the reel over with the tail plate facing down towards the floor and spin it again. Did the noise change? In this case, it was much worse with the spool weight on the tail plate bearing. Next turn the reel over 180 degrees with the handle side down and spin again. The noise went almost complete away with no weight on the tail plate bearing. Diagnosing the problem was easier than getting the bearing out of the cup. Had to use Alan's torch method; kitchen torch worked like a champ.
Quote from: exp2000 on February 11, 2018, 08:38:18 PM
Quote from: kungajim on February 11, 2018, 08:00:36 PM
"..............I have always viewed the use of bearings in exposed/vulnerable locations as ridiculous invitation to a roadside breakdown and their use in handles is just foolish. After all, what are we really trying to achieve here? - durable function or perpetual motion?............."
My first "modern" reel had only one bearing and it worked perfectly, smoothly and lasted a long time.
In the early days of bearings we used thick SAE90 gearbox oil on spool bearings, to slow them down. ???
I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments expressed by exp2000, perhaps with one exception.
Handles and bearings are a serious wear area with some reels, more so on some then others. I used Daiwa SL50SH mainly from 1993 onwards and those handles wore out after a bit more then one seasons spin fishing. To replace them was fairly costly in relation to the price of a new reel, so I repaired a number of them to last another year or so.
I then replaced some with handles from more expensive reels that had bearings.
Those handles lasted much longer then the stock ones and when the tiny bearings eventually gave the ghost, it was simple enough to replace them with a new bearing or bush.
Although much more expensive, the longer life of the handles made up for the cost! Also the bearinged handles did not develop "slop" from worn handle bushes, My experience.
I've been cleaning and regreasing bearings following Alans steps since I joined this forum. Been using a couple of different waterresistant or marinegreases. Also tried with Cal's. Have tested to mix the grease with different oils to get the grease a bit lighter. But many times I think the bearings feels to sluggish after packing them with grease. After packing pinionbearing and driveshaft bearings the reel isn't that smooth and easy to crank. I can live with it, but others doesn't like it. Any advices or partytrix to avoid this ?
You could try; cleaning oiling, then carefully covering the outside only with grease.
Quote from: Drisse on April 11, 2022, 02:13:52 PMI've been cleaning and regreasing bearings following Alans steps since I joined this forum. Been using a couple of different waterresistant or marinegreases. Also tried with Cal's. Have tested to mix the grease with different oils to get the grease a bit lighter. But many times I think the bearings feels to sluggish after packing them with grease. After packing pinionbearing and driveshaft bearings the reel isn't that smooth and easy to crank. I can live with it, but others doesn't like it. Any advices or partytrix to avoid this ?
Are you working spinning reels?
Spinning reel bearing requirements are different from conventional reels.
The best result for me on spinners (or conventionals) has been to pop off the shields —- clean with lacquer thinner in a jar using the US cleaner —- rinse with water —- blow dry —- drop the bearing in a Pimento jar of WRL191S synthetic oil as I assemble the rest of the reel —- when ready to install the bearing/bearings, tamp dry the oil with a paper towel —- inject Cal's Purple Grease (it is thinner than the tan grease) into the bearing —- install it.
This recipe seems to hold up so far indefinitely —- and I have been doing this for 7 or 8 years. The oil naturally mixes with the greased surfaces.
If Conventionals or very large Salt-Water spinners are being serviced —- I use Yamaha Marine in place of Cal's Purple. Although Cal's purple is salt-resistant —- the heavier viscosity of Yamaha Marine seems to do a better job on the heavier salt reels.
Best, Fred
handi2, no only conventional reels.
Thanks foakes. Will order Cal's purple the next time. Don't know what WRL191S is, but guess Google can help me. I don't have a bearingpacker. Do you fill the bearing, like if I handpack it, or only a light layer on the outside ?
Quote from: Drisse on April 12, 2022, 02:22:22 AMThanks foakes. Will order Cal's purple the next time. Don't know what WRL191S is, but guess Google can help me. I don't have a bearingpacker. Do you fill the bearing, like if I handpack it, or only a light layer on the outside ?
If you can remove the shields just pack it by hand
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=27988.15
It is important when mixing grease with oil —- to not use any type of oil that contains any solvents. And a lot of all purpose or specialized oils do contain solvents.
WRL191S is used by many Major organizations such as the railroads, maritime operations, shipping companies, major corporations, the Navy. This is the go-to oil lubricant for ships and oil platforms that have giant cranes used routinely in challenging weather and salt conditions.
It was designed for lubricating steel cable that is used in rough weather or at sea.
The oil seeps in to cover the separate strands of steel cables so that they maintain their integrity, last longer, and are safer.
WRL191S stands for —- Wire Rope Lubricant —- and the "S" stands for the Salt-Water application it was designed for.
It mixes well with grease —- and stays in place on reel parts —- but is an easy cleanse and flush with solvents when servicing.
Best, Fred
You guys really should try Fred's WRL191S. You don't need to purchase a whole gallon like Fred does. I purchase an aerosol can and a couple of the small pen oilers. A little bit goes a very long way and when your pen oilers are empty, you can refill them from the aerosol can. I find myself using this over almost all other oils and like Fred says, it blends well with grease. I still use 321 for conventional bearings but WRL191S almost exclusively in spinning reels. The WRL191S is also my new oil of choice for folding knives and rust prevention on carbon steel blades.
https://nationalhardware.com/blog/shop/lubricant/jaymors-191s-aerosol-can/
-Mike
Will se if I can order it with shipping to Sweden.
Fred, Mike, do you use the WRL191S in the one-way bearings?
Yes, it works well for me on the one-way bearings, Dan —-
Nowadays, I don't do as many of those as I used to. Trying to just work on 4 or 5 brands of vintage spinners —- and mostly the newer reels have one-way A/R bearings.
I guess I am just an old dog —- that likes old mechanical dogs!
On the traditional main bearings —- I dip them in WRL191S for a few minutes —- then apply grease such as Cal's purple or Yamaha Marine —- it mixes well.
Grease would likely foul up the operation of one-way A/R bearings.
Best, Fred
Fred, thanks for that.
My experience with one-way bearings is in radio control model helicopters where a best practice was to use automotive transmission oil in the bearing and I'd go the extra mile and use 1000-grit sandpaper to create a cross-hatch pattern on the sleeve to aid in better retention of the oil over the surface of that sleeve, instead of it pooling due to gravity/high-g manuevers.
good point dan, make a lot of sence, cheers Don.
Question on replacing bearings. I have a couple 130's I got used. I was working on them in the spring and replaced 2 bad bearings. At the time I happened on a deal on SS bearings that matched the ones Penn sells (new old stock on eBay for $12 each vs 35 from Penn) fast forward Now and I pulled everything apart after the season and found 1 bearing in a different spot that is in need of replacing. I can't find any NOS ones for reasonable, I can get 10 non-stainless of the same style for $15-20 or i could get sealed stainless for $8 each. Same specs, just sealed not shielded.
Will these work? I'd like to stock up and get 10-15 so I have them as needed as I'm bad with washing gear, after the 3hr drive home from the boat I crash out and sometimes don't get to rinsing gear for 2-3 days.
Can you measure them and tell us the size?
I use the RS rubber sealed bearings all the time. It sure makes opening much easier!
the only problem with reel bearings is that they have metal seals that can be very hard or impossible to remove.
If they had a rubber seal like a car wheel bearing you could just pop out the seal and repack with your favourite lubricant, I have done this lots of times on cars and trailers. i also check new bearings to see if they have enough grease in the beginning adding more if needed.
The best way i find to clean bearings is to soak them in lighter fluid to melt any old grease then flush them with fresh fluid. let them dry or use compressed air to remove any remaining fluid before re-oiling with your chosen oil. i only use oil on spool bearings but grease on spool bushings. on gear bearings i use grease or if fully sealed i will use thick ep90 gear oil