I always end up 3-4 times, must be doing something wrong ::)
Marc..
Please explain your process and Jon or I will try to help.
Are you measuring carefully?
Here's the scenario, first coat of epoxy not quite thick enough, second coat oops a little bubble there, third coat, darn a hair. So even if it's only one guide that you screwed up, it's still as to go on the drier for another 5 hours
So my question is, how many time does you rod as to go on the dryer to complete the rod ? Can you do it in one application of epoxy ?
Marc..
For me it's one coat. I use a little heat to remove air bubbles.
Quote from: Bryan Young on February 27, 2015, 02:19:04 AM
For me it's one coat. I use a little heat to remove air bubbles.
That's pretty good, it never taking me less then two coats but often 3, not on everything, but even one little spot being fix requires putting it back on the dryer
Marc..
Go back to a Dec Post by Jon Vadney that explains how he applies finish and read carefully. If you do it his way which is pretty much my way as well you will not have problems.
I normally use two coats on threads and inlay work takes as many coats as necessary to round out the finish.
its a happy day when I get it in one coat. regardless of how careful you are in prep, there always seems to be a burr from a thread end that pops up and needs to be shaved for second coat. the abnormally cold weather in the south weather this month is killling me also in trying to get it leveled out in one coat.
There are several things to consider my one coat.
1) Prep - For thread dust or thread burrs, I take an alcohol lamp and quickly singe the loose ends and that also usually takes care of the dust as well. I also use thread preserver that fills in the little gaps that will appear like dimpling in the coat, and clean the blank with alcohol for better adhesion on the blank.
2) I spin the rod while coating and stop the spinning when adding coating around the guide feet, then continue to spin the rod. While it's on the rod dryer and once all of the threads are coated, I use an alcohol lamp to add a little heat to the coating to release trapped air bubbles. I sometime use moist are from my breath as that helps as well.
3) inspect the coating while on the dryer in the first 5 minutes and every 5-10 minutes thereafter for the next 30 minutes. If there is any dimpling, I add additional coating as the threads are absorbing the coating.
Make sure you have good lighting too. That will help identify areas of concerns early on.
Also, what is the speed of your dryer? Too fast or too slow will have different effects on the levelness of the coating.
Quote from: Bryan Young on February 27, 2015, 04:20:17 PM
Quote from: Newell Nut on February 27, 2015, 09:37:16 AM
Go back to a Dec Post by Jon Vadney that explains how he applies finish and read carefully. If you do it his way which is pretty much my way as well you will not have problems.
I normally use two coats on threads and inlay work takes as many coats as necessary to round out the finish.
Newell Nut, do you know where the link to this is? I cannot seem to find it.
Found it. Here you go.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=12361.0
I have read the article before, didn't realize that him too can have his rod on the dryer many times
My dryer spins at 6rpm, maybe it's a bit slow, I also need better lighting my poor vision needs it ::)
Marc..
as my eyeballs have started to go in the past year, i have found that more light on the bench is crucial. i have two turners; one i built with a rheostat so i can apply and dry at two different speeds; the other is straight 9 rpm CRB from Mudhole. personally i think 9 is a bit fast and the flexcoat seems to migrate little more than at 5-6 rpm. as noted above you have to keep an eye on it and rebrush every thirty minutes or so.
back when i started 25 years I used to use two ton Devcon epoxy as it was readily available for $1.99 at walmart. i could get one coat level coverage with a Pvc chuck i built on a rotisserie motor. lasts forever but will yellow over time; actually gives a cool patina look over "old gold" thread wraps
PM me if you want and i can tell you how to build rheostat from a HD light switch for $20
Quote from: thorhammer on February 27, 2015, 06:57:33 PMPM me if you want and i can tell you how to build rheostat from a HD light switch for $20
lalalalala...I didn't hear this....this completely goes again my profession (day job).
Light rheostats are designed for use with incandescent light bulbs, which is a completely different load than motors.
I would recommend a variable speed controller, like those used with routers. The are like $30 and are designed for use with motor loads. They have a 5-15P to plug into the wall and a 5-15R to plug in your AC motor.
hahhahha. true dat.....I had a real deal rheostat for controlling laboratory mixers (was my day job then) but it recently died on the vine and I had to do something quickly as it had a rod on it at the time.....thanks for the pointer; the old one I had would be couple of bills from Fisher Scientific.
Another thing that will help the mix for less bubbles and better application is to warm the epoxy bottles in water before measuring. This makes it easier to draw out the parts in the syringe before putting the parts in the mixing cup. You can also add a few drops of DNA or xylene to thin the mix. With the thinner finish mix it soaks into the threads better and produces less bubbles and increases the application time so no big rush to get it on before it thickens. Total drying time may increase an hour or two.
what is the temperature range that you like to apply and dry flexcoat/finish?
Thanks
Andy
I don't have a preference. Whatever temperature my shop is at the time works. Never had a problem and finish is usually set hard in about 8 hrs.
i try to be at least above sixty, pref. 70.
Bryan is a smart guy --
Without getting into more theory than you would probably want to know, suffice it to say that solid state or regular motors are real sensitive to line voltage and differences in load variations. If the voltage jumps around because of the air conditioner kicking on, etc. or flipping on or off a lamp on the same branch circuit. It may cause the dimmer to kick off, or worse, half cycle which sends half wave rectified DC to your AC motor....Not Good...Toast. (Ever notice how they say on the package "for incandescent use only"?) (Light bulbs don't care what you feed them they just average the power).
When you start a dimmer on high, then reduce the speed, you can go to a lower setting, than if you started the dimmer at the lowest setting and increased it slowly, it would start running abruptly at a higher speed. It's kind of like the flywheel effect in that the motor windings kick some voltage back to the dimmer that helps to keep "triggering" it. (If that makes any sense.) If the motor is not running initially, it takes more to trigger it.
Much of this has to do with resistance, amperage (current), voltage, and the fact that the light controller will get hot when trying to operate a wire wound motor compared to a light.
Bottom line is DON'T use a light dimmer to control a motor.
I have been to incidents where houses have burned completely to a shell -- all we could do was cut the power, disconnect the LP, and pour water on everything to keep the fire contained. All because someone saved a few bucks by not using the proper gauge wiring, the right controllers, improper breakers, or bypassing basic electrical codes.
It will seem to work for awhile -- then it won't -- and by that time, it may spoil your day.
Controllers have come down in price -- to a point where they are very affordable -- and safe.
Best,
Fred
noted...i bought a CRB dryer and thats what I use now
Quote from: ACDIII on February 28, 2015, 03:27:20 PM
what is the temperature range that you like to apply and dry flexcoat/finish?
Thanks
Andy
One thing for sure, no epoxy on humid days
Marc..
Quote from: Marcq on March 01, 2015, 03:18:33 AM
Quote from: ACDIII on February 28, 2015, 03:27:20 PM
what is the temperature range that you like to apply and dry flexcoat/finish?
Thanks
Andy
One thing for sure, no epoxy on humid days
Marc..
The funny thing about this. I used to make trolling lures with my late Uncle Charlie Tanabe. He would not pour resin when the days were dry because he said the resins would yellow. I didn't know if this was true, but we only poured on humid days, which was about 350 days per year in Hawaii.
Quote from: Bryan Young on March 01, 2015, 05:49:46 AM
Quote from: Marcq on March 01, 2015, 03:18:33 AM
Quote from: ACDIII on February 28, 2015, 03:27:20 PM
what is the temperature range that you like to apply and dry flexcoat/finish?
Thanks
Andy
One thing for sure, no epoxy on humid days
Marc..
The funny thing about this. I used to make trolling lures with my late Uncle Charlie Tanabe. He would not pour resin when the days were dry because he said the resins would yellow. I didn't know if this was true, but we only poured on humid days, which was about 350 days per year in Hawaii.
Hmmm! Interesting ! I know humidity affects drying time
Marc..
I epoxy all of my rods in humid Fl with no issues and did 3 yesterday perfectly and wet and rainy all day. I think that when someone has a poor finish they should do root cause analysis to find the real problem instead of blaming it on the weather.
i have two on now; in NC its been cold as crap and either raining or snowing for a month. Makes it very difficult to maintain constant temp in shop with propane heater but i'm getting a decent finish using two coats of flex coat even with humidity. Not near the quality of Jon's turk's head jigger but these are bank fishing rebuilds for buddies (freebies at that) that I'm sure will get tossed into back of truck.
Hi guys,
We finish rods in most conditions, as we can't really change them, but usually above 15 degrees C (60 degrees in old money). Humidity here is pretty constant at about 60%, but no problems with that.
The only thing that we find problematic, is when the temperature goes right up above 25 degrees, then the pot life shortens and the initial mix is seriously like water. But then like all chemical reactions, temperature is a big factor, and will generally accelerate the chemical setting.
Our cure to all the issues, which has been discussed here, is to measure the two parts of whatever finish resin – seriously accurately, with bigger batches being better at ironing out any anomalies in the measurement. We don't use syringes, as we are mostly doing long surf rods and need about 20ccs of resin to at least do most of a surf rod. We use a pair of plunger type bottles used for dispensing liquid soap – these for a single push are remarkably accurate in how much they dispense for each push. This cured all our resin issues in a stroke, after we solve the issues of hand/finger oils on finished work.
Get any amount of contamination, including natural oils from your skin on thread work, and it is a disaster waiting for you to apply resin. We now have a regime of frequent hand washing when building rods, and that cured any problems. Avoid touching the thread in any way, and you will get remarkable results.
Hope that helps.
Cheers from sunny Africa
Jeri
between 4-6 coats of finish for me. 3 coats if I'm using color preserver. I put ultra thin coats on though.
My two cents; I use a 9-rpm and a 18-rpm dryer, personally I see no difference if you are careful not to apply your epoxy to heavily and brush it out. I have to apply at least three coats to obtain the finish I'm looking for. Using an alcohol torch is a must for two reasons, it controls bubbling and helps the flow of the finish. Disclaimer....I'm not an expert, therefore my opinion is just that. An opinion. ;) ;D
Quote from: Jon Vadney on March 25, 2015, 02:39:34 AM
between 4-6 coats of finish for me. 3 coats if I'm using color preserver. I put ultra thin coats on though.
yay!!
this make me feel less worried, I though my rods were spending too much time on the drier normally 3 if its a small repair two times.
ultra thin coats really give you a better at the end of the finish job that worth the extra time on the drier.
yes....you can use high build and maybe get in one coat, which is fine if aesthetics aren't a concern like a party boat repair. I've actually gotten more patient with age; I guess i figured out if i bother with nice wrap job i better bother with a nice finish, and use low build now: two coats on guides and three on a butt wrap or anywhere that elaborate wrapping has caused topography in the thread lay.
The question was about temperature on application. What I would prefer is 70-72 but like Newell Nut said you can't have that all the time. I've seen no problem with temperature. But I do heat my epoxy.
Joe
I usually go 3-4 times on the drier on a new build(including a thin coat on the underwrap). I've found that it's usually ready for the next coat 6-8 hours after applying the first. I'm using the D2 epoxy and my finishes are turning out pretty nice, but it does take several coats to get the desired thickness. For repairing a guide or 2, I think I'm going to start using a high build epoxy instead. Most of my repairs are on factory wrapped rods, not real intricate wraps. Only having the one dryer makes it difficult to get a rhythm going. 5 minutes to replace the guide, 8 hours per coat....
Quote from: Fishy247 on January 18, 2019, 06:29:15 PM
. Only having the one dryer makes it difficult to get a rhythm going. 5 minutes to replace the guide, 8 hours per coat....
yep, one guide repair is imposible for me in one coat and also suffer like you with one dryer.
what I been doing lately is to put the first light coat and wait between 3 or 4 hours, the epoxy will be still tacky but not sticky, so in my books its workable for a 2nd coat, you need to add the 2nd coat with care like "pouring it" over without pressing the brush that much that will give you the desired thickness and dont need to wait 6 hrs plus another 6 hrs or more per coat, maybe not that much time saved but it feels like it was done in one shot ;D ;D
Roger that. I'll probably go with 2 coats with the high build, that way I can get a comparable thickness for these factory wraps. My main thing is that I'd like to be able to get a repair done and back to the customer in a day. Kinda hard to do with 3-4 coats! I might just bite the bullet and buy one of those wall-mount 6 rod dryers....