I have a couple of 113h reels I am trying to put back together. I have assembled a number of them in the past. It seems that no matter what I do and switch around between the two reels, both of which were assembled from spares, I get a really strong vibration and grinding when I reel in under any kind of a load. Free spool is great and drag seems smooth but the gears . . . Maybe they aren't meshing together right? What can I do? Noise is not the issue, it's a palpable vibration of some strength.
Without pictures, its hard to say, but it sounds like the gears or yoke or both need replaced.
check the bearings.
here's something for you to consider. the bearings are small enough that they can be crushed and basically function like bushings. the inside race can move radially under a heavy load so that the gear teeth are no longer in proper alignment. under no load, the spool spins poorly and the reel cranks fine. under a heavy load, the teeth grind.
if the bearings are rough at all, change them out. with a car, it's usually a burnt plug before it's a burnt piston. for a reel, it's usually a bad bearing before it's a bad set of gears. take a look and let us know?
Boss,
I mean no disrespect, but I have yet to see old school penn bearings go bad. Sure, if they are neglected enough. By that, I mean used as a sand shovel. Those old school bearings are nothing like they make today in the Avet Bearing eating Machines.
Let us know Tom, what the dealio is.
i just finished going through a 113h that had this exact problem - crummy free spool, normal cranking under no load, and grinding under a load. it was the bearings. it was quite a surprise. i did a cursory check of the bearings and felt no roughness because they were not turning. with the spool slightly displaced because of the damaged bearing, the gear teeth were not meshing properly. you learn something new every day.
oh, and the way they were damaged? the owner cranked down on the left side bearing cup too much. the man didn't know his own strength.
stickied!
Quote from: Shark Hunter on April 04, 2015, 05:59:28 AM
Boss,
I mean no disrespect, but I have yet to see old school penn bearings go bad. Sure, if they are neglected enough. By that, I mean used as a sand shovel. Those old school bearings are nothing like they make today in the Avet Bearing eating Machines.
Let us know Tom, what the dealio is.
Bearings on those do go bad and so do all other reels ever made.
The bearings on spinners go faster, unless you have an Avet ;D.
The Penn Spinnfisher have huge stainless steel bearings, you would think they would last forever :-\
Quote from: Tom McKinney on April 04, 2015, 01:04:18 AM
I have a couple of 113h reels I am trying to put back together. I have assembled a number of them in the past. It seems that no matter what I do and switch around between the two reels, both of which were assembled from spares, I get a really strong vibration and grinding when I reel in under any kind of a load. Free spool is great and drag seems smooth but the gears . . . Maybe they aren't meshing together right? What can I do? Noise is not the issue, it's a palpable vibration of some strength.
To me from what you've explained about the feel, I would go straight to the bearings, but you've mentioned that free spool feels nice, so maybe the bearings are good :-\.
Try switching just the pinion and see what happens, gear teeth will deform a little, especially if the reel has been fished hard.
This is not a bad thing, but the pinion and main gear need to be kept together, if not, you'll get what you're experiencing.
Give it a shot, it doesn't cost anything.
Your next step would be new gears, that will also determine if your bearings are good.
Good luck!
Any Updates Tom?
Tom I have a brass main and a pinion if you need it. No charge. Just pm me your address.
Bob
Thanks, will send a PM.
Sine these reels are all made from parts piles, I'm not sure if another used set will fix the problem given the comments above. Should I try new yokes to keep things lined up?
Tom,
You need to go to the bearings first. Then the gears and yoke. Keep us posted. Bob is offering the gears, I can supply a yoke. Keep us posted.
Dawn at smooth drag can shoot you a set of bearings For 15$ + shipping I believe.
The thing frees pools like a dream so I can't see how the bearing would be the cause. Anybody ever had similar happen i.e. Good frees pool but grinding?
Quote from: Tom McKinney on April 06, 2015, 05:02:13 AM
The thing frees pools like a dream so I can't see how the bearing would be the cause. Anybody ever had similar happen i.e. Good frees pool but grinding?
yes, the last senator i worked on was EXACTLY like this. get a small phillips screwdriver, push down on the inside race of the bearing, twist and see if it's rough. that's the only way to know for sure if the bearings are bad.
Update:
While I haven't fished it yet, the matched set from Cone has made a big difference. I had no idea that mixing used gears and pinions could could be a problem. Always learning in this site.
Thanks Cone. And to all who gave advice.
When I have assembled reels from old parts -- many times the gears just will not quiet, or mesh properly -- until I switch them out with others. But visually, I can see no problems.
Just like wearing someone else's pair of old shoes -- never feels or fits right. Your feet and style of walking are different from anyone else.
That is why you will observe in many of the older quality reels -- the engineers generally used a steel pinion, along with a brass main. They were allowing the dissimilar metals to be quieter and smoother when meshing -- by knowing the main would wear out sooner and slightly under typical usage. And of course, it would perform more smoothly and quietly.
And sometimes a yoke is either tweaked enough or rough around the edges -- that a switch-out there will help also -- then when you get it where you are satisfied -- don't over slop grease on the drive train -- but a little extra would not hurt anything -- particularly when using old used parts.
Under actual fishing pressure -- everything needs to be looked at in the drive train -- bearings, gears, yoke, jack, pinion bearing axle, spool ends -- and even potential frame/stand/post twist causing alignment issues when meshing together.
Sounds like you made good progress with everyone's input.
Best,
Fred