12-15-08 - pull up the schematic and follow along with me.
https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/30sw.pdf (https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/30sw.pdf)
here's your reel, a classic penn 30 wide two speed international.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN60411.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN60401.JPG)
what we're going to do is grease all of the screw holes, grease the drag washer, cut a bearing sleeve, service the bearings and install a custom handle. let's start with the left side plate assembly(key #27). back out all of the left side plate screws (key #'s 31a and 38a).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN60421.JPG)
remove the left side plate assembly and check for the dogs (key #15) and the left side plate bearing (key #55). you will rarely find a thrust washer (no key #) in some models, while it is missing in others.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN60431.JPG)
clean everything up a little and pull the left side plate bearing (key #55). since this bearing does not affect freespool, we are going to extend it's life by packing it with grease.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN60441.JPG)
review the "bearings" post if you are unfamiliar with the procedure, remove the shields and hand pack the bearing with grease.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN60451.JPG)
replace the bearing shield if it is possible.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN60461.JPG)
add a little grease to the bearing cup.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN60471.JPG)
carefully press the bearing (key #55) back into the left side plate (key #27). replace the thrust washer (no key #) with a little grease to hold it in place. replace with dogs (key #15) with a little grease to hold them in place as well.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN60481.JPG)
ok, the left side plate assembly is done. that takes care of the first bearing. set it aside and let's move on.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6049.JPG)
next is the spool assembly. here we are going to service two more bearings, cut a bearing sleeve, grease the drag washer, change the orientation of the belleville pressure washers (if needed) and grease the screws that hold down the drag cover.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6050.JPG)
the pinion gear and spool shaft are a single unit (key #13) and simply pulls out.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6051.JPG)
what comes with it are typically a set of four belleville disc clutch springs (key #18). these belleville's are oriented in a softer "()()" configuration which gives you a lower drag range. you also may or may not have an additional thrust washer (no key #) located to the inside of the bellvilles.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6055.JPG)
to remove the drag cover (key #156), let's back out the four drag cover screws (key #123). note the corrosion seen in this photo. i will occasionally come across screws that are so badly corroded that these screws will snap off at the base. if that happens, don't worry. you have a perfectly reasonable option of simply leaving the drag cover off. another reel has a similar design. it is called an avet.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6056.JPG)
now that the cover is off, everything will come apart. (sorry, you will see this photo twice.) note that this spool assembly is missing a gasket (key #156a). someone in the engineering department probably thought it was a good idea. someone in the service department probably realized that it was stupid after servicing a dozen or so of these.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6080.JPG)
let's take a look at the drive plate. it is very simply a penn ht-100 carbon fiber drag washer glued to a cast aluminum pressure plate. what we are looking for is evidence of water intrusion. if salt water seeps in between the drag washer and the aluminum, it will eventually form a bubble of corrosion. this high spot is what sticks and is basically the reason that these dry drag washers fail. you can see evidence of salt water intrusion along the outer edges of the drag washer, from the 3 o'clock position to the 10 o'clock position. salt appears to have been deposited onto the drag washers surface but has not reached the aluminum to cause corrosion.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6061.JPG)
checking the edge of the drag washer, you can see a small spot of corrosion and some slight lifting of the drag washer off the surface of the aluminum backing plate. jumping ahead a little, i will tell you now that this is minimal and will not affect the smoothness of the drag washer. once it's greased, that is.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6058.JPG)
slap a nice, thick, juicy coat of cal's grease on the carbon fiber, making sure you get the inside and outside edges. for those of you that STILL do not believe in greased carbon fiber, feel free to move on to the fishing reports at this time!
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6065.JPG)
take a clean rag and carefully rub away all of the excess grease.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6066.JPG)
this is what it will look like when you are done. this is a carbon fiber drag washer that is impregnated with pure teflon grease. this should represent the industry standard. sadly, this is not true in all cases.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6067.JPG)
now for the spool bearings (key #20). the dimensions are 0.5 x 1.125 x 0.312 and they should pop right out. if they do not, the STOP and take a hard look at them before you start pounding. there are no retaining rings holding in the left spool bearing. give it a light tap. if you have to pound to get this one out, plan on having to replace it because the pounding will ruin the bearing. some models actually have a retaining ring on the RIGHT side. to remove the retaining ring, you must remove the ratchet plate (key #81) first. probably someone's idea of a practical joke.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN60621.JPG)
open up these bearings, clean out all the grease with carb cleaner and compressed air, lube them up with corrosion x and set them aside. let's leave them unshielded.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6063.JPG)
something new that i've been doing, starting in the summer of 2008, is cutting bearing sleeves. i've been buying thin walled brass tubing from the local hobby shop and cutting them down to fit inbetween the bearings. the increased freespool has been dramatic. here's the tubing needed for this reel.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6068.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6069.JPG)
the whole process is relatively simple. i get a quick measurement of the length needed and cut it with a tubing cutter.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6070.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6071.JPG)
then i re-measure the lengh and mark the amount of metal that needs to come off.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6072.JPG)
the sleeve is then placed in the chuck of the drill press. even a hand held drill with a half inch chuck would work.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6073.JPG)
a standard mill bastard file will shave off 5 to 10 thousanths of an inch with every stroke, depending on how sharp the file is and how hard you lean on it. after a few tries, you will get the feel for it. plan on having to do this a few times before you get it right.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6074.JPG)
ideally, you want zero load and zero endplay. actually, if you cut it too short, you may as well start over because the bearing sleeve will not work at all. if it's too long, the spool can move around while in free and you may note that the spool stops when you roll it to the right. you want to be right on the money, or not more than 10 thousanths long. this one was perfect. with just the bearings and sleeve in place, you should be able to push in on one bearing and feel just the slightest amount of pressure on the other. it you can push in on one bearing and actually MOVE the other bearing completely, the sleeve is way too long.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN60751.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6076.JPG)
here is what the spool shaft assembly looks like with the bearing sleeve in place.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6078.JPG)
to check the function of the bearings and bearing sleeve, first place the spool shaft assembly in the spool and give it a spin. you should get about 30 seconds of freespool.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6079.JPG)
now place the drive plate (key #117) on, press only half way to put pressure on the left side bearing spring (key #41) and spin it again. if you get the same amount of freespool, then you know that there is no axial load on the bearings and it works. again, make sure the bearing sleeve is not too long.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6080.JPG)
grease the screw holes in the left side of the spool (key #29).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6081.JPG)
install the drag cover (key #156) and the four drag cover screws (key # 123).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6085.JPG)
the drag washer is now grease and the bearings are now open, lubed, and sleeved. three bearings serviced, one more to go. set the spool next to the left side plate and let's move on.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6086.JPG)
let's start on the right side plate assembly (key #1). remove the screws (key #'s 31, 32 and 38b) for the quadrant (key #2). note that all of these screws are different lengths.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6087.JPG)
set the quadrant and the screws aside. don't forget the two quadrant spacer bushing (key #157).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6088.JPG)
remove the remaining right side plate screws (key #'s 31a and 38a). note that the long one goes at the 12 o'clock position.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6089.JPG)
ok, it's apart. set the right side plate assembly aside. we will service the frame first.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6090.JPG)
this will be simple. first, put a little grease on the harness lugs.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6091.JPG)
next, let's add a little grease to all of the side plate screw holes. just a small bead is all that is necessary. go ahead and just grease the screws if you are worried about it, though. with just a small amount of grease, you will not have to worry about the frame cracking. this frame is machined from a solid block of aluminum, not cast like that saltiga frame that cracked on me a while back. also, the screw holes are cut quite a bit larger than the screws. there is very little risk of cracking open these screw holes.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6092.JPG)
remove the rod clamp assembly, including the acorn nuts (key #152a), the rod clamp (key #33), and the clamp screws (key #34).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6093.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6094.JPG)
a note of caution. aluminum around the clamp screws will corrode quickly. it is common to have them corroded so badly that the screws will snap if you try to horse them off. drilling them out and retapping the hole is a nightmare. if you have one of these reels, check the clamp screws now and grease them if you can. otherwise, just leave them be.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6095.JPG)
remove the four stand screws (key #63). they will need grease as well. note that one of these loosened up already. so much for loctite.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6096.JPG)
several you have voiced concern over my recommendation that these screws should be greased and not just coated with loctite. i know your concerns are genuine and i thank you. i have decided, however, to continue with grease, and to carefully torque these screws down. owners are advised to check the stands periodically. i believe that preventing corrosion takes priority.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6097.JPG)
remove the stand (key #30) and optional the stand gasket (key #264).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6098.JPG)
grease all of the screw holes.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6099.JPG)
install the stand gasket (key #264), the stand (key #30) and the four stand screws (key #63). lean on those screws a little and make sure they are good and tight!!!!!!!
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6100.JPG)
the clamp screws (key #34) are chrome over fairly soft brass, NOT stainless steel. pity. if they were stainless steel, they might not bend so easily.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6101.JPG)
install the clamp screws (key #34), the rod clamp (key #33), and the acorn nuts (key #152a). we're done with the frame. set it aside with the left side plate and spool. we still have one more bearing to service.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6102.JPG)
there is the last bearing. this is the part that was omitted from the original penn 30s rebuild post. this right main side plate bearing (key #20) is the most problematic in all of the lever drag reels. it bears the greatest load and is always the first to corrode. it's dimensions are the same as the spool bearings, 0.50 x 1.125 x 0.312. we'll have to remove the handle and the main gear to get to it.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6105.JPG)
first, remove the handle lock screw (key #110) and the handle locking plate (key #110a).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6106.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6107.JPG)
remove the handle screw assembly as a unit, including the plunger cap (key #172, the handle screw (key #23), the retaining ring (key #69b). a stadard penn wrench will work well here.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6108.JPG)
remove the handle assembly (key #24).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6109.JPG)
remove the drive shaft shield (key #50).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6110.JPG)
to remove the main gear assembly, we must first loosen the hold down screws (key #63a). it is not necessary to remove the gear retainers (key #173). they only need to be loosened.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6111.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6112.JPG)
the main gear assembly is made up of many parts. to remove it, simply push down on the plunger pin (key #171) and the main gear assembly will come out as a unit.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6113.JPG)
inspect the main gear assembly and find the two plunger pins (key #172a). note the orientation. there is a flat side and a rounded side. the rounded side faces out. carefully remove the plunger pins, add a bead of grease to the holes and replace the plunger pins, rounded side out.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6117.JPG)
remove the right main side plate bearing (key #20).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6118.JPG)
if it's in good shape, let's crack it open, pack it with grease, put the shields back on and re-install it back into the side plate. otherwise, let's get a new one. you will know if the bearing is bad because it will feel crunchy when you turn it with your fingers. before you even opened the reel up, you should have felt some grinding when you turned the handle, worse in gear, less in free.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6118.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6119.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6121.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6122.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6123.JPG)
to reinstall the main gear assembly, slide it in as far as it will go. it will stop when it reaches the plunger pins.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6124.JPG)
push down hard against the main gear assembly with your left index finger.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6125.JPG)
push down slightly against the plunger (key #171) until the plunger pins give.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6126.JPG)
the main gear assembly will pop right into place and lock in!!!!!!!!
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6127.JPG)
install the drive shaft shield (key #50).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6128.JPG)
install the new custom handle (a $33 6/0 kolekar grip and $17 penn 50 arm).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6129.JPG)
install the handle screw assembly (key #'s 172, 23 and 69b).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6130.JPG)
install the handle locking plate (key #110a).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6131.JPG)
install the handle lock screw (key #110).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6132.JPG)
position the gear retainers (key #173) so that the points of the gear retainers rest over center of the backbone of the high speed main gear. tighten the hold down screws (key #63a).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6133.JPG)
the point of the gear retainers (key #173) must be dead center. do not allow the point to rest over the teeth of the high speed main gear to the outside and below, or to touch the teeth of the low speed main gear to the inside.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6134.JPG)
take a moment to lube the inside and outsides of the locating pin assemblies (key #69). disassemble the unit for proper lubrication if needed.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6135.JPG)
ok, the right side plate assembly is done and it's time to get this reel back together an run it through it's paces. first, let's get a little grease in the recessed side plate screw holes. i found some corrosion in there earlier.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6136.JPG)
install the right side plate screws (key #'s 38a and 31a). remember, the long one goes at the 12 o'clock position.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6137.JPG)
install the quadrant (key #2) with the quadrant spacer bushings (key #157) and the three quadrant screws (key #31, 32, and 38b).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6138.JPG)
install the spool assembly (key #29).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6139.JPG)
install the left side plate assembly (key #27). put a little grease in the recessed screw holes (remember the corrosion found on the right side?). place the dogs (key #15) down position, resting against the dog springs (key #14). let's make sure now that the lever on the right side is in the "free" position and that the prest knob is backed all the way counterclockwise. now line up the left side plate and it should seat. if it does not, give the handle a slight crank. that should do it.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6140.JPG)
with the left side plate properly seated, the spool should spin freely. check it first, then install the left side plate screws (key #31a and 38a). the long screw goes in at the 12 o'clock position.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6141.JPG)
there you have it! a blue printed penn 30sw with custom 6/0 kolekar handle grip on a longer 50 international handle arm.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6142.JPG)
now remember, we installed the bellevilles in the stock configuration of "()()". when i ran this reel through it's paces, i found that i lost freespool when the preset knob was cranked down to 20 pounds of drag at strike. i got the same 30 seconds of freespool, but the maximum drag setting was too low for this particular customer. here is the height of the stock bellville configuration of "()()" plus the thrust washer.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6143.JPG)
when the same four bellevilles were nested in a "(())" position plus the thrust washer, the stack was a little too short.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6144.JPG)
adding a fifth belleville to the stack to make a "((())" configuration plus the thrust washer made the stack a little higher than it was originally, but i tried it anyway and it worked just fine. this configuration gave me 35 pounds at strike before losing freespool. and even at that extreme setting, i still got 30 seconds of freespool.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN6145.JPG)
gentlemen, we have a winner!
for future updates, go to http://alantani.com/ (http://alantani.com/)
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Quote from: jcft2007;2308810Alan, I noticed several issues regarding your post on the 30sw rebuild.
hey, no problem, guys. for starters, i was using the term "blue printing" rather loosely. for me, at least, cal sheets is the one true master. i remember the first time i met him, maybe 7-8 years ago. he must of thought i was on drugs. i literally could not get my questions out, stumbling over my words so badly. when i was finally able to explain the problem i was having, he simply said, "sounds like a bent spool shaft" and i felt like i had been struck by a lightening bolt! i'm sure, to him, i was just some tinkerer, but to me it was like an awakening. this stuff is just like hacking things together. the work that cal does is a quantum leap ahead.
anyway, cal sheets is the one that actually coined the term, "blue printing." the actual blue printing procedure involves several different steps, all expensive and time consuming. what he does is machine down the drag plate to make it perfectly true. that's step one. then, a piece of heavy stainless steel tubing is turned on a lathe to make a bearing sleeve. it's accurate down the a few thousanths of an inch. i'm lucky to get it within 10 to 20 thousanths. then he uses a combination of belleville spring washers to give you the exact drag range that you specify. this is not so much science as it is art! want 22 pounds of drag? he will set it up so that you get a smooth progression to 22 pounds. want 25, 30 or 33 and a half? he can do that, too. i have only the extra stock bellevilles and some stainless steel ones that i hobble together. i can add an extra one or fiddle with the orientation and that's it. mostly, i'm looking at bumping up the drag range from 20 pounds to 30 or 35. it's sort of a hack job, but it actually does work! the down side of that kind of drag range is that you are "full on" as soon as you inch that lever forward. there is no smooth progression. it's off or on, nothing in between.
so, joel, with the reel that you just saw, the guy that owned the reel wanted about 30#'s because he was going to try to land a big shark. if he decides he does not like the way the drag ramps up, it is very easy to change back. now, when you asked if he requested to not have the reel serviced in it's entirety, there is really not much else that would be left to do. the drag plate was fine. it usually doesn't travel very far because it's got no place to go. the right main side plate bearing was also ok and really needed only a little more grease. the purpose is to eliminate the air spaces that can hold water and make the bearing rust. i guess i could have opened up the cam, but i usually just leave that be unless there is a problem. if you want to service that, it's straight in and out to add a little grease only.
hmm, i think that's everything. so if you want the ultimate in performance, absolutely go to cal sheets. if you want to squeeze out a little more performance and stay within budget, consider doing the work yourself. i just checked and saw that cal will blueprint a reel for $95. for the work that is done, that's a bargain. i actually called them a couple of years ago and they told me that they would cut a bearing sleeve for $25 if i just send them the spool, bearings and drive shaft. hope this clears things up. thanks! alan
QuoteSat, 1/3/09, Randy wrote:
Hello Alan. I hope you don't mind but here are some photos of my EBay buy. Maybe not such a good buy. Would you look at the spool and tell me what you think? The guy obviously didn't rinse the reel the last time, and there is corrosion on the reel from the salty line. The good news is the drag looks OK to my eye, and I've since greased it with Cal's grease. The exterior has minor signs of corrosion from not being rinsed the last time, actually found some salt crystals. On the spool I'm worried about the corrosion on the sides, not so much on the spindle. I'd better not spool this reel anyway! There are a couple of spots that I'm worried might chafe the line as it is rough when I run my finger over them. I was thinking of using some 1500 grit wet paper and taking the corrosion off, with the color no doubt. I'd rather have a functional reel. Randy
randy, honestly, i think your're fine. unless you strip off all the line, you really can't ever rinse a spool adequately. so, you've got the rebuild post to go through the 30. the 50 is almost exactly the same. after you've serviced the reel, i'd put a wrap of black electrical tape around the arbor of the spool, string it up tight with spectra, and tie on your topshot. you should be good to go. hope it's ok, i'd like to add your question and photos to my website. also, you know the drag washer looks more like one from a penn 12 international than a penn 50. thanks! alan
(http://alantani.com/gallery/0/1_04_01_09_4_54_07_4.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/0/1_04_01_09_4_54_02_0.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/0/1_04_01_09_4_54_04_1.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/0/1_04_01_09_4_54_05_2.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/0/1_04_01_09_4_54_06_3.jpeg)
Quote from: Busted! on April 11, 2009, 06:51:24 AM
Hi, thanks for the information and help! A further question on the 80ST I have been trying to 'restore', I've got it back together and the drag has a sticky point which makes the reel 'pulse' when you pull line off it. I would hazard a guess that this would be in the drive plates and drag disc so what would be the best course of action? True the drag disc up in the lathe and check the drive plates for distortion? Could it be something else like a bent shaft? Really looking for a few pointers to save me some time because I've already spent a week removing unseized parts from this reel and removing the corrosion... Thanks!
if you have a bent spool shaft, the spool will have a hop in it and will rub against the frame. my first guess is that you have one of the old composite drag washers. they look like the brakes from front disc brakes. the new dura drags are $52.30 for the 117AN-80T and $24.40 for the 117N-80ST. https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Penn30SW.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Penn30SW.aspx) if you have the old ht-100 drag washers, consider greasing them with cal's grease to see if that gets rid of the skipping. there is a possibility that you have corrosion underneath the carbon fiber material if you have one of the old ht-100's. this will create high spots that can stick as well. if these spots are easy to identify, you should replace the drive plate. you could, however, simply dig out the high spots with a dremmel or even an old pocket knife, then grease everything thoroughly. you will know right away if you are successful, or not......
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Quote from: poisello;556656Maybe Alan may be able to answer this question.
I saw the articles about rebuilding a bunch of reels and Alan talks about freespool. What impulse (and how) do you give to the spool to be sure to measure on the same basis ?
After all my questions on my old penn int. 80sw's I'm now on my reels for restauration and tried freespool. It lasts max. 12 seconds but gives a clicking sound while turning like a train running over rail joints... what may that be ??
Thanks in advance and thank you for your articles which are all very helpful !!
they clang......
here's what i have found. there is a free floating stainless steel rotor (key #7A). in some of the reels that i have worked on, i can spin the spool in "free" and every time it comes around to the same spot, once every complete revolution, the darn thing clangs. annoying as hell. the rotor just sits there, until it hits that one spot and then it shifts position and clangs. does that sound about right? the finnor ahabs do the same thing.
to check for freespool, i carefully hold a beer and the reel in my left hand, then spin the spool as hard as i can with my right hand. if i spill my beer, i go back to the refrigerator and get another one. sometimes it takes several trips back and forth to the frig to get it right. of course, by then the spool is spinning all by itself!:D
Quote from: NemoAlan, First I want to thank you for all of the help and tutorials you give on a lot of boards. I know you are an extremely busy person, but I was hoping you could point me in the right direction with a decision I am trying to make. I was initially looking to buy a 12/0 to go with my 9/0 and smaller reels for land based sharking, but after seeing some used international 50W's going close to what a 12/0 sells for, I think I want to go with a used lever drag. It looks like the international lineup is the only thing that is going to be close to my price range, so could you enlighten me on the different models and which are the best (or worst)? I have seen 50w, 50sw, 50tw, 50vsx, 50vsw, and some that have international II with some of these letter configurations. I am guessing it has to do with age and 1 or 2 speed, but I am not sure which are junk and which may be OK. I would like to find a 2 speed if I can afford it, or do you think it is unnecessary? Bottom line is I need to find a solid, dependable 50w that is affordable. I have seen some on Ebay for well under $300, with some closer to $200. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks again for all the tutorials, and posting some awesome trips. Lynn
lynn, you're welcomed! so about the internationals. the new "V" series internationals are very nice, but too expensive for what you are doing. they are also to tedious to service after a dunking in the surf. for the older international line, the "t" means tubular frame and single speed, the "w" means wide spool, and the "s" means two speed. if you are going to use straight 80# mono, you may need an 80 class reel. if you are going with spectra, a 50 class will hold over 500 yards of 80# spectra. that's 5 football fields, end to end. you should be able to change out the belleville spring washer configuration from a springier "()()" to a stiffer "(())" or add a washer and use an even stiffer "(()))." that should give you 35#'s of drag at strike and maybe 45#'s at full at the top of the spool, and 40 #'s of drag at strike and 50#'s at full with 150 yards of spectra out. that would be enough to drag me into the surf.
personally, i would think that an old penn international II 50S or 50SW two speed would do the trick. get a reel that is all beat up on ebay. the outside doesn't matter, it's what's inside that counts! alan
Quote from: melgoodwin on June 12, 2010, 07:41:07 PM
Hi, Alan. First, thanks so much for the great tutorials & info; also the homebrew tools (just made a bearing remover from an old screwdriver. . . ) Second, I'm going through an old (ca. 1990, I think) Penn International 30 (no s, sw, t, etc visible anywhere), and I cannot see how to remove the drag cover. The schematic doesn't show any locking devices or other hardware that (to me) would seem to have anything to do with retaining the cover. So, I'm asking everyone's reel go-to for guidance! Thanks again for all the help! cheers Mel
it's got a gold anodized aluminum cover, right? look carefully and you will see three tabs. when you find them, push in on the first tab with the point of a chopstick (hey, i'm japanese!) and then lift. got that one tab up? good, now rotate a third of a turn to the next tab and do the same thing. easy, huh!
Alan
Thaks for this excellent tutorial. Do you have any suggestions for extracting a stuck left side plate bearing ( key#55) on this reel? We tried everything we could think of to get underneath and lift it out-small bent screwdrivers etc. The thing just won't budge. No sign of corrosion at all. Frustrating to say the least. Does anyone make a puller that will work? Thanks in advance.
Some times CAREFULLY heating the side plate will allow the bearing to come out.
Alan, I just followed your advice and got a beater Penn International 20. I'm looking to use it for shark fishing on the east coast, but I pulled up the owners manual for the 20T and it said drag at strike was 4-7, and max 10-12. I am freaking out! Is this just the stupid manual, what can you really get out of an old intl 20?
Thanks!
Give this a try.
Pack the center hole of the bearing with very thick grease. Find a shaft that fits the inter bore of the bearing and use it as a piston to push the bearing out. You will have to refill the center of the bearing several times. If you are lucky the bearing will pop out before the shields blow out. You may have to push the shaft in quickly to develop enough pressure.
You can use this method to pack a stuck bearing while in place.
Jim N.
Quote from: Gaujo on May 23, 2012, 01:05:29 AM
Alan, I just followed your advice and got a beater Penn International 20. I'm looking to use it for shark fishing on the east coast, but I pulled up the owners manual for the 20T and it said drag at strike was 4-7, and max 10-12. I am freaking out! Is this just the stupid manual, what can you really get out of an old intl 20? Thanks!
remember, the penn international 20 was originally designed for 700 yards of 20# mono. the belleville configuration should originally have been "()()" and can be changed to "(())" with a probable 50% jump in drag range and no spacing problems along the length of the spool shaft. it's the type of thing where you may have to fiddle with it for a while.
Hi all,
i'm in the middle to service a Penn International 30!
here is the schematic link so you know which one i'm talking about.
https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/pennparts/schematics/30.pdf (https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/pennparts/schematics/30.pdf)
i believe this reel has the asbestos drag washer?
i removed the drag cover found saltwater had made its way in there.
cleaned everything as good as possible, bearings are fine, drag plate has some pitting but should be ok.
Now can i just by the penn drag from the HT100 part#006A030 and replace the asbestos or do i need to modify anything?
cheers,
Steff
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
it's a 117dn-30. you are talking about the drag washer, right? you have to replace the entire unit.
Quote from: alantani on June 12, 2010, 09:16:52 PM
Quote from: melgoodwin on June 12, 2010, 11:41:07 AM
Hi, Alan. First, thanks so much for the great tutorials & info; also the homebrew tools (just made a bearing remover from an old screwdriver. . . ) Second, I'm going through an old (ca. 1990, I think) Penn International 30 (no s, sw, t, etc visible anywhere), and I cannot see how to remove the drag cover. The schematic doesn't show any locking devices or other hardware that (to me) would seem to have anything to do with retaining the cover. So, I'm asking everyone's reel go-to for guidance! Thanks again for all the help! cheers Mel
it's got a gold anodized aluminum cover, right? look carefully and you will see three tabs. when you find them, push in on the first tab with the point of a chopstick (hey, i'm japanese!) and then lift. got that one tab up? good, now rotate a third of a turn to the next tab and do the same thing. easy, huh!
Just wanted to post a pic to help others with this type of drag cover, the pic shows the removed cover w tabs
thanks! i see you have the old style drag washer also.
Ya, i was trying to save money and use the ht100 version, but have run into trouble. I started a thread on it.
Hi Alan,
I would like to thank you for another excellent rebuild tutorial. I have just serviced a Penn 30SW II and 50SW II that my father gave me. The noted reels were used no more than five times but where purchased sometime in the late 80s. Nevertheless, there where some corrosion which suspect is from the age and storage of the reels. The drag washer attached to the drag plate on both reels appear to be the old composite and not the carbontex as shown in this tutorial. Attached is the photo which I borrowed from this tutorial just to illustrate the parts that I am referring to. I want to replace composite drag washer with carbontex but I am not sure if this would require replacing also the drag plate. The second photo is my handed down 30SW the reel that I have worked on. Once again thanks for all your guidance ;D
Bula Gang,
Geez, I wish the 50SW II I'm working on now looked as good as the one above!..... sure would make my job alot easier.. :o
Seems like a silly question to me, but do to a recent experience I must pose the question to you all...
For as messed up, corroded, neglected and nasty as this reel is/was... surprisingly (and as testament to Penn quality) the bearings are still good!....they just need a flush and clean.
Which leads me to my question:
(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q680/fijigreen69/SANY0134_zpsf9b7ad3f.jpg) (http://s1353.photobucket.com/user/fijigreen69/media/SANY0134_zpsf9b7ad3f.jpg.html)
These bearings have a removable stainless shield on 1 side and a plastic shield on the other...or so I think its a shield...
I recently tried to pull the shields of some brand new shimano replacement bearings and ended up pulling out an entire plastic race !! >:(
So I'm suddenly gun-shy on an exercise I've done hundreds of times. ???
Can somebody please confirm for me that these plastic shields on the penn bearings are indeed shields I CAN remove without trashing the bearing? I'll sleep so much better tonight ;D
I'm not concerned with re-installing the plastic shields if they are damaged...
Thanks all !
the white nylon that you see is not a shield. it is the entire race.
I don't like the nylon race bearings, as I have never been sure of how to properly clean them.
Thanks Chief !
I was afraid of that... will I be okay doing a 1 sided flush with carb cleaner without harming the plastic race?
and how would you place that in the bearing packer..if at all... plastic side up or down on the cone? or does it matter?
I'll hand pack it anyway since I never sprung for the bigger packer ::) ... but still would like to know
Thanks Alan
Quote from: Bunnlevel Sharker on November 05, 2013, 04:10:16 AM
I don't like the nylon race bearings, as I have never been sure of how to properly clean them.
Yeah I'm with ya on that Grayson ... I guess that's one reason why we're all here ;D
On that note:
All the tiagra replacement bearings (couple dozen) I recently got straight from shimano have plastic races...what a PIA.
not only that, but the metal shields are pressed in ...UGHhhh....that just seems cheap to me
I ruined the first one I tried to pull the shields off... I got my awl in too far and broke the race.
..so much for open spool bearings
I usually try to find a bright side of things...maybe these plastic race bearings will have one... we'll see how they hold up
... they were pretty well greased inside though...
Quote from: Bunnlevel Sharker on November 05, 2013, 04:10:16 AM
I don't like the nylon race bearings, as I have never been sure of how to properly clean them.
same as the others, just compressed air and carb cleaner.
Ok thanks I have been using white vinegar and dawn, all my castin reels have bushings anyways so they just get packed with grease. I was worried about melting the plastic.
Quote
the white nylon that you see is not a shield. it is the entire race.
No it isn't. It is the ball retainer, also called cage. The races are the tracks the balls run in; also referred to as inner and outer ring.
Quote...I was worried about melting the plastic...
Like this?
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d165/DrRob101/Drag%20mods/MeltedShield.jpg)
Just kidding. This melted during an extreme drag test; it has nothing to do with chemicals.
.
Quote from: GaryG on September 23, 2013, 10:26:21 PM
Hi Alan,
I would like to thank you for another excellent rebuild tutorial. I have just serviced a Penn 30SW II and 50SW II that my father gave me. The noted reels were used no more than five times but where purchased sometime in the late 80s. Nevertheless, there where some corrosion which suspect is from the age and storage of the reels. The drag washer attached to the drag plate on both reels appear to be the old composite and not the carbontex as shown in this tutorial. Attached is the photo which I borrowed from this tutorial just to illustrate the parts that I am referring to. I want to replace composite drag washer with carbontex but I am not sure if this would require replacing also the drag plate. The second photo is my handed down 30SW the reel that I have worked on. Once again thanks for all your guidance ;D
Lovely reel, but I notice the frame is in the wrong way round - well, compared to every other Penn International I've seen.
I guess it doesn't seem to matter.
Chris
Anyone ever open one where the pinon gear is seized onto the pinon bearing? My instinct is to put the shaft in a vice and pull it out.
Also, do the lugs have to face a certain direction?
Thanks guys.
Yes, I have had pinion bearings seized on shafts. Try soak it, heat it, and pry it off with 2 opposing screwdrivers, or put tue bearing in a vise. Be carefull not to damage the pinion gear/shaft they are expensive. If worse comes to worse, you can use the vise or a press to split/break the bearing. I use my arbor press and a die on these now that I have one.
The lugs should be positioned so the flat part faces towards the innermost part of the reel. The locating pins, if present, will keep you on track. The schematic shows how the asymetrical ones are positioned.
Quote from: Tightlines666 on June 01, 2015, 02:44:59 AM
Yes, I have had pinion bearings seized on shafts. Try soak it, heat it, and pry it off with 2 opposing screwdrivers, or put tue bearing in a vise. Be carefull not to damage the pinion gear/shaft they are expensive. If worse comes to worse, you can use the vise or a press to split/break the bearing. I use my arbor press and a die on these now that I have one.
The lugs should be positioned so the flat part faces towards the innermost part of the reel. The locating pins, if present, will keep you on track. The schematic shows how the asymetrical ones are positioned.
Thanks a lot Tightlines. I will try these techniques tomorrow.
The bearing is not coming out of the sideplate. There was a lot of corrosion in this reel.... Everything else cleaned up nicely.
That is ugly!
You can probably press out the entire can assembly from the outside of the plate. Try soaking the whole lot in 50:50 ATF:Acetone or mineral spirits. See if you can turn the preset screw to force the bearing out, then try pressing the cam assembly out from the outside. Be careful not to damage the gear teeth, or bend the shaft in the process. If you end up clamping it in a vise, use something to protect the teeth and avoid and side torque.
Good luck!
&keep us posted on the progress.
I tried to go that route but the plate can not easily be removed.... There is one really stuck screw that someone already destroyed the head on. All of the others came out. I'm going to try some PB blaster on it tomorrow. The pre-set knob just spins, there is no resistance. This reel is one of the worst that I've seen. It's not mine but I might offer to buy it for parts if it's not economical to fix. Believe it or not but the spool, handle, frame, non-handle sideplate, drag, etc, are all fine. It's just this one sideplate that got really wet and sat for years. I managed to remove both main gears and clean them. Everything else cleaned up fine. I'm going to put some serious effort into it tomorrow. I get a sense of enjoyment bringing reels like this back into service.
Progress so far. Still a ways to go on this one.
I've just picked up a 2nd hand 30T and it looks to be in good shape (fingers crossed), Is there a plastic type rod clamp for these reels or are we stuck with the old style all metal "gunnel gouger" setup ?.
That's a good question.
According to MysticParts, there is only one rod clamp that fits this reel. I think the problem lies in the thread size, limited nut options, and stud diameter. Flipping the accorn nut upside down, and/or using a spacer might solve thE length issue, you may need to enlarge the holes in the rod clamp to accept the larger diameter stud as well. I think spacing should be ok, but maybe someone can confirm this for you? I am away from my bench at the moment.
This is the one I would try....
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/33N-113.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/33N-113.aspx)
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Sorry that I didn't see this before, still catching up.
No..I wouldn't recommend using a graphite clamp with the larger international reels just due to the amount of torque involved. personally.
I think that is why there isn't an option for one from Penn.
This may sound real dumb...
It looks like you are packing your bearings with the Yamaha grease. That's seems normal to me. Why do the Penn pack say to use oil for the bearings?
I have 3 Penn 50SW I am attempting to put back together. They were never used. Just trying to make sure I don't botch it up. I currently have Penn Oil/Grease and Corrosion X and am stopping by the Auto store to pick up carb cleaner.