Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn Senator Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: alantani on December 07, 2008, 04:29:19 PM

Title: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on December 07, 2008, 04:29:19 PM
ford had the edsel.  penn had the 113hn.  i think the penn 113hn baja special died a quick death because no one took the time to look under the hood.  pity, it was not your grandfather's 4/0 senator.  it is also unlikely that this reel will ever be revived.

pull the schematics at https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/113hn.pdf (https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/113hn.pdf) there were a number of upgrades to this reel during it's short lifespan.  the reel you will see was a recent edition.  your's may be older.

and here is the reel.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3172.JPG)

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3173.JPG)

first, let's back out each left side plate screw (key #38), one at a time, and add a bead of grease.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3174.JPG)

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3175.JPG)

now for the right side plate.  remove all four right side plate screws (key #39).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3176.JPG)

the reel separates cleanly into three pieces, a frame assembly, a spool assembly and a right side plate assembly.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3177.JPG)

you never thought this ratty old toothbrush would last so long, did you!  clean up the inside of the frame assembly, leaving a light coat of grease on all the non-exposed metal surfaces.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3178.JPG)

this reel already had great freespool.  we'll just add a drop of corrosion x anyway.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3179.JPG)

back out each stand screw (key #101) one at a time and add a small bead of grease.  per our previous discussions, i make this recommendation because i believe in principle that corrosion anywhere in a reel is bad.  to avoid corrosion, these screws are greased, but you have now created a situation where they can back out.  this means you have to check these screws on a regular basis.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3180.JPG)

brush a little grease on each side of the spool.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3181.JPG)

remove the right spool bearing (key #55a).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3182.JPG)

pull the shields, clean out the grease, relube it with corrosion x and install it open back onto the spool shaft.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3183.JPG)

install the spool assembly back into the frame.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3184.JPG)

for routine maintenance, this is all you are looking at.  that is, of course, once we finish the right side plate.  let's start on the right side plate by removing the handle lock screw (key #23a).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3185.JPG)

remove the handle nut cap (key #110).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3186.JPG)

remove the handle nut (key #23).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3187.JPG)

remove the handle (key #24).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3188.JPG)

remove the star drag wheel (key #10).  these graphite stars can break.  an all metal replacement is available through penn or mysticparts.com.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3189.JPG)

remove the click washer assembly (key #'s 8a and 8b).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3190.JPG)

remove the stainless steel belleville tension washers (key #8) and note that they are cupped oppositely.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3191.JPG)

line everything up.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN31971.JPG)

our 113hn is a later model with a bearing underneath the tension washers.  back out the four bridge screws (key #16), leaving them in place.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3192.JPG)

the bridge and main gear assembly drop straight down.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3193.JPG)

take a moment now to lube the right side plate bearing (key #26).  note also the double thick stainless steel pinion yoke (key #12).  a most excellent feature.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3194.JPG)

if it fell out, as in the previous photo, replace the pinion gear (key #13) and sub shaft (key #13a) and set the right side plate assembly aside.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3195.JPG)

now we will service the bridge and main gear assembly.  a hardened stainless steel main gear (key #5) is a very nice upgrade from the bronze alloy main gear of the standard penn 113h.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3196.JPG)

let's pull everything apart, in order, and line everything up.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3198.JPG)

install the anti-reverse ratchet (key #98r).  make sure the teeth are pointed in the right direction.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3199.JPG)

install the fiber washer (key #4).  in most penn reels, i would substitute a drag washer in this spot.  i decided not to because there was so little room.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3200.JPG)

grease and install the main gear bearing (key #5a).  i used yamaha engine grease.  thinking about it now, i should have used cal's drag grease.  it should not make a difference, but it would probably be better not to use the two greases so close to each other.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3201.JPG)

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3202.JPG)

now for the dog springs (key #14).  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3203.JPG)

the easiest way to remember is that the long end is pointed down.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3205.JPG)

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3204.JPG)

slide the dogs (key #15) into position.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3206.JPG)

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3207.JPG)

apply a generous coat of cal's drag grease (or shimano's) to the drag washers (key #7L).  don't worry about the excess.  under extreme pressure of the star, all of the excess will be squeezed out.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3208.JPG)

reassemble the drag stack.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3209.JPG)

pack the gear sleeve bearing (key #55b) with yamaha engine grease and install the belleville tension washer (key #8), the spacing sleeve (key #9) and the bearing (key #55b).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3211.JPG)

now, the right side plate assembly has been quietly sitting and remains in one piece, right?  place your left index and middle finger over the bridge screws (key #16).  you've done this plenty of times before with the jigmaster and the other senators so you're all experts at this.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3212.JPG)

with two fingers to hold the bridge screws in place, flip over the right side plate assembly and make sure everything is in its proper place.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3213.JPG)

just like the jigmaster and the newell, the 113hn bridge assembly drops straight into place.  there should be no dog spring "troubles" here.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3214.JPG)

with a right hand assist, flip the right side plate assembly over.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3215.JPG)

cinch down each bridge screw (key #16) half way, then go back around and seat each screw tightly.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3216.JPG)

install both belleville tension spring washers (key #8), the first cupped up and the second cupped down.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3217.JPG)

install the click washer (key #8a) and spring (key #8b) assembly.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3219.JPG)

install the star drag wheel (key #10) and turn it down until it clears the shoulder of the gear sleeve (key #98) that supports the handle (key #24).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3220.JPG)

install the handle (key #24) and handle nut (key #23).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3221.JPG)

install the handle nut cap (key #110) and add a bead of grease to the screw hole.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3222.JPG)

install the handle nut cap screw (key #23a).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3223.JPG)

add a bead of grease to each of the four screw holes of the right side of the frame (key #183).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3224.JPG)

note that the side plate assembly can be installed with the handle swung forward or back.  you can also install the harness lugs (key #54) in the up position or down.  i keep forgetting to ask if these same 113hn lugs (part #54-113hn) will fit in the standard penn 113h.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3225.JPG)

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3226.JPG)

pick a position for the right side plate assembly and install the four right side plate screws (key #39).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3227.JPG)

check to make sure the handle (key #24) turns freel, the eccentric lever (key #21) works an that the reel has good freespool.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3228.JPG)

done!  note that the handle is now swung forward.  this gives easy access to the eccentric (freespool) lever.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3229.JPG)

now for some comments.  there are three major features that are combined in this one reel to set it apart from all others.  first, a disengaging spool.  this is a feature found in several daiwa reels that allows the spool to spin in freespool with contact only at the bearings.  star drag reels with a single piece spool shaft may have problems with the spool shaft rubbing against the inside of the pinion gear, thus slowing down freespool.  a disengaging spool shaft that means that the 113hn will freespool as well or better than an equivalent size lever drag reel.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3184.JPG)

second is the use of keyed drag washers.  this allows a stack of 4 keyed drag washers (key #6) and 4 slotted metal washers (key #7L and 7H) to function as a stack of 7 traditional round drag washers sandwiched in between 7 slotted and keyed metal washers.  the result is an easy 25 pounds of drag, perhaps more.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3198.JPG)

third is the use of double spring loaded dogs that will hold up against any amount of load that the drag washers can deliver.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3206.JPG)

there are other nice touches to this reel, such as the two position right side plate, the reversible harness lugs, the heavy duty pinion yoke, the hardened stainless steel main and pinion gears, and the bearings spread out all over the reel.  what truly sets this reel apart from all others is use of a disengaging spool, the stack of drag washers and the double dogs.  it is because of these features that i call the penn 113hn baja special the best in it's class.  
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on December 08, 2008, 04:28:51 PM
Quote

Originally written by Y&R (12/7/2008 9:19 AM)

Hey, I figured I'd ask you first since you clearly have a good grasp of these reels from previous posts. I've used this reel twice and noticed on my last trip that when I take a crank there's an area of increased resistance during a complete 360 degree crank. Not sure if that makes sense but I don't know how else to describe it. The reel goes into free spool without problems and there doesn't seem to be any loss of drag. I haven't noticed any odd noises coming from the reel. The only thing that seems to be off is when I start to bring line in and there's a slight but noticeable increase in resistance at one specific area of the retrieve. Thanks, Young

couple of possibilities, but the most likely is that the gear sleeve is a little stuck to the bridge post. check the schematic and look at the bridge (key #3) and the gear sleeve (key #98).  try removing the handle nut cap (key #98) and drop a little oil down into the gear sleeve. let it soak and try cranking it. can you let me know? thanks!  alan


Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on January 10, 2009, 05:24:59 AM
QuoteOn Fri, 1/9/09, pete wrote:  I'm lookin for a 3/0 size reel.( That wont break the bank!) every one is using Torrium 30's untill they fail , I don't see the sense in this, if you buy something that will get the job done rite the first time around! The tackle store down the street still has a Penn Baha would that be any good? thanks for your time Alan! Pete.

for a single speed star drag reel, i like the penn baja special.  you could load it with 80# spectra almost to the top, add a short 50-60# topshot and set the drags to 15-20 pounds and do just fine.  i would like to see the bearings lubed, the drags greased and put a large handle grip on it.  i've heard from other guys that 20#'s is barely enough for grouper, so i think your smallest reel option is the baja special.  here's the rebuild post. 
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on April 13, 2009, 01:10:21 AM
Quote

Alan, I own a baja special and love it. However, there is one smalll flaw. The nut keeper on top of the handle has a very short screw that only lets me get maybe 3/4 of a turn before running out of thread. I bought a few replacements but there has to be a better mousetrap. I was wondering if you had run into this problem and were able to get a little longer screw. I enjoyed you post on the new handle but I an satisfied with the stock handle.


do you mean this nut?

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN3221.JPG)

i haven't had a problem. it would be nice if the drive shaft was just a smidge longer, but it's been ok far. also, you should check out the new handle grip at some point. it makes a HUGE difference. alan

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on April 13, 2009, 02:13:39 AM
http://www.deepjigging.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=50785

Quote from: TBaker;50785

Posted this as an addendum on the Jigfest IV thread, but thought it might be more useful over here:

Just a note on gear used on our recent (3/23) trip with Chip in NC. Both I and my friend, Howard, tried out the Penn 113HN Baja Special reels for jigging. I was very curious how they would do. While we didn't get into any monsters, overall I was very impressed. Had determined that they could go to about 28 lbs. of drag, but set them @ 20 (on a scale) with the thought that we could adjust, if needed. Turned out we didn't need to touch them. Reels were smooth with a surprising amount of cranking power (4.25:1 ratio). Stainless steel main gear and 5 ball bearings.  Also very smooth drags (I greased mine with Cal's). HT-100 drag washers are carbon fiber on the outside with another material sandwiched in the middle (not sure its make-up). Basically a 4/0, like the Shimano Trini 40N, with more line capacity. It also has double anti-reverse dogs, so thats not going to be an issue. And it has lugs! :)  The one complaint, albeit small for me, is its a bit heavy and it has that old-school Senator look (get over it!).  For under $200, I was very pleased. For you high-end guys, you might think of this as a back-up to your Trini 40N or Saltiga. Relatively cheap insurance.


Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on May 12, 2010, 10:34:08 AM
Quote

Hi Alan,  I'm looking for an upgrade for the right side spool bearing on the Baja Special.  I have the "later model" reel.  I'd like to replace the Penn bearing w/ a Boca bearing.  However, I'm not able to find information regarding bearing #, even from Boca.  Also, I do not have a micrometer to provide Bocal w/ EXACT measurements.  Do you have the correct # for the right side spool bearing (Boca)? Thanx, Glenn


glenn, i didn't post bearing dimensions with the baja special post.  when i get a reel in, i will add the dimensions.  alan


Quote

Hi again, Alan.  I found a local "bearing shop" nearby my house & was able to purchase the bearing there for $6.50.  FYI the dimensions of the bearing are: .625 O.D.; .375 I.D.; .156 thick/deep.  Hope that may help you in the future.

Best,
Glenn


Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on January 03, 2011, 03:51:27 AM
from steve carson

Quote

Originally Posted by stiffblade  
Has anyone used the old style Penn Baja Special and used the in line upgrade to improve their reel? The upgrade is mainly a new sideplate that will accomodate a bearing around the gear sleeve. It's about $40 bucks and I plan to mainly use it for yo/yo with 50lb line.

Has the upgrade made that much of an improvement for you?

stiffblade


The additional bearing was added to clean up a little handle slop.
If the play in the handle does not bother you, no need to spend the time and money getting it done.
I have the reel in all 3 conditions: factory with 6 ball-bearings; retro-fitted to 6; and original with 5.
It's impossible to tell the difference without close examination.
Also remember that the printing on the BOX was never changed.
Even the new production says "5 ball-bearings" on the box, but if you look at the owner's manual, it shows 6.
Unless you bought yours in 2004 or early 2005, it may indeed have 6 bearings already.



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Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: ateel7 on March 27, 2011, 04:47:28 AM
alan, how are you?

i just did a total rebuild of a used one of these...besides some dog spring troubles,  steps went great.

i do have some spool play. seems to move side to side a lil too much...kinda clunky. any suggestions? thanks
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Norcal Pescador on March 27, 2011, 02:43:00 PM
Try tightening the left bearing housing a little at a time. When it's right you should hear a very slight clunk when you move the spool side-to-side as opposed to a loud CLUNK when it's too loose. I just Tani-ized my new, off-the-shelf 113HN and I had to readjust the left bearing also.
Let us know if this solves it.
Rob
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: ateel7 on March 27, 2011, 04:07:38 PM
yes! thank you! actually it's my dumb mistake...i forgot i had loosened it again...couple turns and it's perfect.

i like this reel!
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Norcal Pescador on March 27, 2011, 05:11:40 PM
Glad it was a simple fix and problem solved.

Two things - it's a great reel isn't it? And Alan really makes it easy for all of us. ;D
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: ateel7 on March 28, 2011, 01:02:23 AM
Quote from: norcal pescador on March 27, 2011, 05:11:40 PM
Glad it was a simple fix and problem solved.

Two things - it's a great reel isn't it? And Alan really makes it easy for all of us. ;D

yes and yes! his posts have been a life(money) saver!!!

hey do you have a rod recommend for baja for jigging small/medium tuna?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Norcal Pescador on March 28, 2011, 01:21:57 AM
Quote from: ateel7 on March 28, 2011, 01:02:23 AM
Quote from: norcal pescador on March 27, 2011, 05:11:40 PM
Glad it was a simple fix and problem solved.

Two things - it's a great reel isn't it? And Alan really makes it easy for all of us. ;D

yes and yes! his posts have been a life(money) saver!!!

hey do you have a rod recommend for baja for jigging small/medium tuna?

I'm an absolute newbie at the tuna game, so I'll let somebody with real knowledge make a recommendation.  I have heard from reliable sources (so it's second hand knowledge), that the shift is toward longer rods, 7 1/2 - 8 foot. Personally, I'm planning to try my luck with my 113HN (40# mono) on a 6 1/2 foot 20-40# fiberglass rod and a hotrodded jigmaster (30# mono & 20# top shot) on a 7 foot 15-30# fiberglass rod. I'm not a big fan of saltwater graphite rods, but more experience may persuade me otherwise.  :-\
Rob
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: SoCalAngler on March 28, 2011, 06:22:38 AM
Quote from: ateel7 on March 28, 2011, 01:02:23 AM
Quote from: norcal pescador on March 27, 2011, 05:11:40 PM
Glad it was a simple fix and problem solved.

Two things - it's a great reel isn't it? And Alan really makes it easy for all of us. ;D

yes and yes! his posts have been a life(money) saver!!!

hey do you have a rod recommend for baja for jigging small/medium tuna?

ateel,

If you don't mind I will jump in with some rods I like but you didn't say what pound of test you were going to use. For me I use 40lb test for most of my mid sized tuna fishing in Baja so I will recommend some rods for that pound test. I mainly fish Calstar rods and I like 6 1/2 and 7' rods for this application. For a composite rod look at the 700m or the 765lx and for glass a 670 or a 665. I would also check out Seeker rods and for a composite a Black Steel 6470 or a 6465h. If you don't mind paying some more also check out the Super Seekers. For glass Seekers use the same model numbers as the Calstars but you may want to go with the H models as Seekers seem to fish about one model lighter than the Calstars.

When selecting rods I have found it is best if you can pull on a few rod models if you can, that way you get the model that feels best to you.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: ateel7 on April 01, 2011, 03:41:45 AM
hey thanks. i'm going to load it up with 65# or 80# braid with a 80 fluoro leader. i'm leaning toward a 700h or 700xh calstar.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keith K on April 06, 2011, 02:34:15 AM
Mine is on a 700H with 80# JB Hollow.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: slip tip on April 20, 2011, 08:46:41 AM
Hi, ateel7!

If I may suggest, get the 6/0 Kolelar handle from Alan for your Baja Special. I have 3 of those reels and all have been "Kolekarized". It makes a HUGE difference in the amount of comfort in the way the handle will feel, not to mention added torque to really winch in fish. It will also help if you move the handle arm length adjustment to the last hole at the end of the arm. A perfect combination of speed and torque especially if you're working jigs.

Regards,
David

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: George4741 on April 20, 2011, 03:38:55 PM
Alan,

I'm unable to find instructions for adjusting or changing around the drag stack on this reel.  I've set mine up this way:  1 ht100, 1 keyed washer, 2 ht100, 1 keyed washer, 1 ht100, 2 keyed washers.  This way I basically have a 3-drag stack.  Is this acceptable?

I set mine up this way because, with the drag star backed off, the factory drag setting seems too high to my liking.  I don't have a pull gage to check it, so I'm just going by feel. 

George
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Bryan Young on April 20, 2011, 07:16:19 PM
The Baja Special has those Versa-Drag (I think that is what they call it) where the metal washers are keyed and the HT-100s are eared, if my memory is correct.  it comes with 4 keyed metal washers and 4 HT-100 eared washers with a fiber washer under the gear stack.  All, correct me if I'm wrong.

The drag can be set up in any of the following configurations based upon the drag you need, and all configurations are just fine.

Max Drag - Gear, HT-100, Metal, HT-100, Metal, HT-100, Metal, HT-100, Metal
             - Gear, HT-100, HT-100, Metal, HT-100, Metal, HT-100, Metal, Metal
             - Gear, HT-100, HT-100, Metal, HT-100, HT-100, Metal, Metal, Metal
Min Drag  - Gear, HT-100, HT-100, HT-100, HT-100, Metal, Metal, Metal, Metal

Note, the stacking of metal washers or carbon washers, if done, doesn't matter where in the stack they are as long as there is a HT-100 adjacent to the gear and you end with a metal washer on top of the drag stack.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: George4741 on April 21, 2011, 03:56:40 PM
Thanks Bryan, that is the info I needed.

Regards,
George
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: wolvie on July 02, 2011, 02:25:10 AM
Hi,

I managed to acquire a lightly used baja which seems to have gotten at least part of the AlanTani treatment, meaning a light coating of yamaha marine grease on all internals, threads and spool ends - even under the foot.  But I had a question about the bearings.  I noticed that the bearing in the drag stack was open and lubed, but it looked like the rest were sealed.  My impression from reading the posts is that the spool bearings should be unsealed, degreased and lubed with TSI.  I think 3 bearing qualify as spool:  key #s 40, 55 and 55A.  But getting the shields off the left side and tiny inner spool bearings on the right is a bear.  I tried a knife and a pin, but no luck.  Any suggestions?  At this point, I am just cleaning them in acetone and adding TSI.

Thanks and Happy 4th!
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: wolvie on July 03, 2011, 02:56:11 PM
I opened it up and noticed that the drags were not greased so I greased them.  Upon reassembly, I noticed that with the star turned down far enough to have no contact between the reel handle and the star, there is a minimum of drag of several pounds.  The reel seems to have been upgraded with the 6th bearing, since the star is plastic rather than metal, so perhaps there is a necessary adjustment in the drag stack?  I could file the spacer down a bit to compensate, I guess, but I imagine the winning solution will be to just let it have a non-zero minimum drag. 
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Alto Mare on July 03, 2011, 03:38:32 PM
I would let it go wolvie. if it was a smaller reel, I would then do something about it.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Norcal Pescador on July 03, 2011, 03:54:47 PM
My 113HN is the five bearing model and it has a slight drag with the star backed off all the way. Like Sal said, it shouldn't be a concern. Penn should replace your plastic star with the metal one for free. Look on their website for a recall notice. It is one nice reel! 8)
Rob
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: basto on September 08, 2011, 10:16:56 AM
It has taken me far too long, but I have just ordered one of these reels. I have an original Torque 200, which has the same disengaging pinion and double dogs as the Baja, but the thing I like most (for bottom fishing with bait) about this reel, is the tall spool with low gear ratio.
Just like the 113h Senator, I think this reel will become a classic in PENN`s offerings.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Gman_WC on September 10, 2011, 12:11:40 AM
I don't see 113HN drags listed on the Smooth drag site.
Are they available in anything other than HT100's from Penn?
Thanks -gary
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: akfish on September 10, 2011, 02:34:07 AM
Smooth Drag does not drag washers or the 113HN -- but they don't really need to. The HT-100s they come with stock are great.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Gman_WC on September 16, 2011, 04:20:40 AM
I'm sure the HT100's work just fine but the Carbontex material would last a little longer.
I picked up a used one on fleabay tonight at the nice price and would be
happy to hear where I could find a set or two for spares.
Mike's appears to be out of stock.
-gary
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on September 16, 2011, 05:37:11 PM
the stock ht-100's are fine.  the same manufacturer makes ht's and carbontex.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: john2244 on November 12, 2011, 08:30:44 PM
I can not get the pictures to open in this Baja Speical tutorial, anyone have any ideas what I can do ???
The newer tutorials are fine but the tutorials dated in 2008 will not open.
Thanks,
John

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: amihan on November 19, 2011, 02:40:00 PM
 >:( Same here. I can not get the pictures in this tutorial.
Thanks
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on November 19, 2011, 04:29:14 PM
the web guy is still transferring photos from the old server to the new one. 
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: BonitaBch on February 23, 2012, 01:24:46 AM

Today I received a 6/0 Kolekar grip and new handle arm to go with the Baja Special that I picked up on Alan's recommedation.  The grip is comfortable and the handle arm is just awesome, a clear upgrade over the stock one that came with reel.  I'm waiting for the day I can try it out on some of the Gulf bottom fishes that we go after.

Thanks Alan, and thanks to everyone who posts on this board to make it the success that it is.

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: CooldadE on February 23, 2012, 04:46:24 AM
Are these reels still in production and available ?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Dominick on February 23, 2012, 04:51:52 AM
Quote from: CooldadE on February 23, 2012, 04:46:24 AM
Are these reels still in production and available ?
Yes: I bought mine through Charkbait.  Search around for a good price.  Dominick
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Norcal Pescador on February 23, 2012, 02:19:50 PM
Quote from: Pescachaser on February 23, 2012, 04:51:52 AM
Quote from: CooldadE on February 23, 2012, 04:46:24 AM
Are these reels still in production and available ?
Yes: I bought mine through Charkbait.  Search around for a good price.  Dominick
X2 - Haven't seen a better price than Charkbait, but it's worth looking. Good luck.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Brendan on February 23, 2012, 02:50:51 PM
Are they still made in the USA? And if not what year was the last in the states?
Thanks, Brendan.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: BonitaBch on February 23, 2012, 02:58:08 PM
The Baja Special is a very solid reel, and made in the USA.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Makule on March 01, 2012, 02:34:13 AM
In theory, the 113HN should have better free spool than a 113HL because the spool rides on an independent bearing (independent of the pinion gear).  Is this, in fact, true?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Bryan Young on March 01, 2012, 02:38:27 AM
Makule, the free spool is awesome on this reel.  After servicing one, I wanted to buy one...but knowing me, It'll be bird's nest on the first outing...and a bad one.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on March 01, 2012, 02:42:13 AM
the disengaging spool is pretty awesome!
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Alto Mare on March 01, 2012, 02:57:23 AM
Yes, I did hear that the free spool was amazing on those reels, but, you can't brake it if you don't have it ;).
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Brendan on March 01, 2012, 03:50:11 AM
     After working on a spinning reel, professional overruns are way more easy to deal with than servicing spinning reels. I'm not saying I'm just saying. Brendan.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Makule on March 03, 2012, 04:40:47 AM
So if the spools spins that much faster, I guess the problem would be overrun while casting.  If this is the case, then how about using magnets to control to spin?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Alto Mare on March 03, 2012, 05:03:00 AM
I personally don't believe that the 113 Baja special is stronger than the 113H Tank :-\.
I don't think that the floating spool system would last long with thet type of fishing that you do.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on March 03, 2012, 06:32:47 AM
actually, i think it is!  the drive shaft (gear sleeve) of the 113hn is solid, not hollow like the 113h.  the main gear of the 113hn is all stainless steel, not a manganese/bronze alloy like the 113h.  the 113hn pinion gear is heavier and the teeth are thicker than the 113hn. 

and from screwups that i've made before, i have found that the 113h gears will shred at 25 pounds of drag.  the 113hn gears will not.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Alto Mare on March 03, 2012, 01:45:11 PM
Yes! You 're right Alan, but I don't believe that my Accurate SS gears, my Alan's SS gear sleeve, my double SS dogs from Lee and other goodies would fail at 25lb on my 113hn reel/tank. I like the baja, but with all of these wonderful upgrades from me and you guys, I'm going to stick with the simplicity and toghness of my reel/tank.
I'm wondering why the baja only lasted 4 years :-\.
The 113h has over 50 years under its belt and still going strong.
Sal
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Norcal Pescador on March 03, 2012, 03:26:51 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 03, 2012, 01:45:11 PM
I'm wondering why the baja only lasted 4 years :-\.
The 113h has over 50 years under its belt and still going strong.
Sal
Sal,

My personal opinion, for whatever it's worth, is that the great ideas of the Baja Special were just overtaken by other technology, maybe the higher cost compared to the 113H, the 113H is a good, basic reel of a very useful size, and like Alan said in his tutorial, " it's a shame nobody took the time to look under the hood." And with all of the aftermarket 113H accessories from Tiburon, Newell, etc., the 113HN was just ignored.

Steve Carson assured me the 113HN is still very much in production. :)

Kudos to you for all of your innovation. If Alan ever started a Reel-Tech of the Year, you should be the first. ;)

Rob
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Squirmypug on March 03, 2012, 03:29:18 PM
Alto I wouldn't hesitate to use your tank or the baja, they are both great reels.But for the price I think I would buy the Baja over spending money to make a reel like yours..I plan to build one someday though, for now my international torque 300 will have to fill the spot of baja/tank..it is made like a tank already and is about the same size  ;D
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Alto Mare on March 03, 2012, 04:39:56 PM
Rob, thanks for the info, I wasn't aware that the baja was still in production. When I checked Scotts it actually said that it was in production for 3 years. Thanks for setting me straight.

Squirmypug, I hear you. I just want to mention that you could get lucky and find some parts to customize the 113H. That would bring it up to the level of the Baja for less money. As I mentioned above, the Baja is a very good reel but in my opinion my ree/tank is a better reel, I really like the helical cut Accurate gears on my reel ;). Sal
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on March 03, 2012, 05:34:29 PM
Quote from: norcal pescador on March 03, 2012, 03:26:51 PM
Kudos to you for all of your innovation. If Alan ever started a Reel-Tech of the Year, you should be the first. ;)

X2
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Makule on March 03, 2012, 05:53:45 PM
X3
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: CooldadE on March 03, 2012, 06:05:40 PM
I beleive you would have to get very lucky to build a new USA 113H Tank for the $237.00 + shipping cost of a new USA 113HN.  New 113H ($90 on ebay rite now) Jvarence narrow kit ($85) Accurate gears ($75 maybe) SS  dogs ($5) Time to modify reel (??) Rough total...$250 plus not in including shipping. I am compairing new for new here and realize a person could poke around and score used stuff here and there and build a Tank on the cheap. I love Penn reels and have many modified with Accurate, Tiburon and Newell parts. I have a nice 113H I got in a deal ( a 113H and a Penn 60 both excellent for $50 ) that i will someday Tank up. I will also buy a 113HN ( I have an in home business and think I can get 113HN reels wholesale for under $200.00) I don't know how big a supply there is or what shipping would be. I Would be glad to check for interested members. Again I dont know how much the to my door shipping would be
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Makule on March 03, 2012, 06:23:49 PM
Quote from: alantani on March 03, 2012, 06:32:47 AM
actually, i think it is!  the drive shaft (gear sleeve) of the 113hn is solid, not hollow like the 113h.  the main gear of the 113hn is all stainless steel, not a manganese/bronze alloy like the 113h.  the 113hn pinion gear is heavier and the teeth are thicker than the 113hn. 

and from screwups that i've made before, i have found that the 113h gears will shred at 25 pounds of drag.  the 113hn gears will not.

Alan, I don't understand what you are saying about the 113HL gear sleeve being hollow and the 113HN being solid.  They both seem to be hollow since they both need to ride on a shaft to rotate.

Also, if Sal replaced his stock gears with aftermarket SS gear, wouldn't they essentially be the same (I don't know about teeth thickness)?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Alto Mare on March 03, 2012, 06:53:19 PM
Quote from: CooldadE on March 03, 2012, 06:05:40 PM
I beleive you would have to get very lucky to build a new USA 113H Tank for the $237.00 + shipping cost of a new USA 113HN.  New 113H ($90 on ebay rite now) Jvarence narrow kit ($85) Accurate gears ($75 maybe) SS  dogs ($5) Time to modify reel (??) Rough total...$250 plus not in including shipping. I am compairing new for new here and realize a person could poke around and score used stuff here and there and build a Tank on the cheap. I love Penn reels and have many modified with Accurate, Tiburon and Newell parts. I have a nice 113H I got in a deal ( a 113H and a Penn 60 both excellent for $50 ) that i will someday Tank up. I will also buy a 113HN ( I have an in home business and think I can get 113HN reels wholesale for under $200.00) I don't know how big a supply there is or what shipping would be. I Would be glad to check for interested members. Again I dont know how much the to my door shipping would be
Good point cooldadE, but I just want to mention that the new older-model 113h comes with stainless steel gears, that would bring you to $190. You also didn't realize that you would have parts left over from the original reel when you're done customizing. I believe that you could sell the spool, frame and gears for around $60, that would bring you to $130. figure about $70 for the 4:1 ss gears and you would still be around $200. The only problem we have here is trying to find the Accurate gears, I know that there has to be e a few that could help us here , we're waiting for them to step up to the plate, as Lee ( Keta )  did. I remember buying a dozen Newell SS gears for $420 shipped,and that wasn't long ago :-\
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Makule on March 03, 2012, 07:17:26 PM
QuoteI know that there has to be e a few that could help us here , we're waiting for them to step up to the plate, as Lee ( Keta )  did.

Just yesterday, I visited my machinist friend with a set of gears and asked him to check on the price of comparable SS gears.  He will check with his gear source and get back to me with the information.  I know that the gears he finds will need some machining work (I.E., cut the teeth off a section of the height, and hollow out the inside for the brakes to fit the main gear) but I can do that so I'm not very concerned about it.  My hope is that the cost for each gear will be low enough to justify getting them for modification.

The pinion gear is more difficult than the main gear because it needs a portion to be milled out and I don't have a milling machine.  Still, if the cost is right, then I could use my friend's milling machine to make the modification.

I also asked him to check on getting a set with a higher ratio.  He was a bit concerned about the reduction of strength since the gear teeth would need to be smaller (hence, weaker).  We'll see what they come up with (if anything).

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: basto on May 04, 2012, 12:51:14 AM
with 6 ball bearings and a disengaging pinion gear, I think the Baja will freespool better than a  113h, but I don`t see any 4/0 as a casting reel.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Tunanorth on May 10, 2012, 05:57:15 PM
Hi All,
Just to review;
The 113HN Baja Special is definitely still in production [was discontinued briefly in 2008], and has its own dedicated page in both the Penn printed catalogue [p.9 in 2012], and on the Penn website.
This is one of those head-scratchers in that the "zeitgeist" can't seem to be stamped out.
Maybe its just that once something is on the web, its gets "Googled" forever.
As Alan has noted in various locations, even compared to an old US-production, fully upgraded "Yellowtail Special" 113H with all the aftermarket goodies including handle, the Baja Special 113HN still offers more ball-bearings [6 vs. 2], double-dog anti-reverse, disengaging pinion gear [better casting/freespool], reversible harness lugs, and the choice of orienting the gearbox "forward" or "rearward" for optimized ergonomics.
Interesting point about selling-off unused pieces from a conversion, but the 113HN comes all done, which is nice and convenient too.
Having talked to literally thousands of anglers inquiring about Baja Specials, I can say unequivocably that the issue is cosmetic; not enough "bling".
 
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Makule on May 10, 2012, 06:30:08 PM
QuoteHaving talked to literally thousands of anglers inquiring about Baja Specials, I can say unequivocably that the issue is cosmetic; not enough "bling".

When it comes to fishing reels, I'd take brawn over bling any day.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Alto Mare on May 10, 2012, 07:44:35 PM
Quote from: Tunanorth on May 10, 2012, 05:57:15 PM
Hi All,
Just to review;
The 113HN Baja Special is definitely still in production [was discontinued briefly in 2008], and has its own dedicated page in both the Penn printed catalogue [p.9 in 2012], and on the Penn website.
This is one of those head-scratchers in that the "zeitgeist" can't seem to be stamped out.
Maybe its just that once something is on the web, its gets "Googled" forever.
As Alan has noted in various locations, even compared to an old US-production, fully upgraded "Yellowtail Special" 113H with all the aftermarket goodies including handle, the Baja Special 113HN still offers more ball-bearings [6 vs. 2], double-dog anti-reverse, disengaging pinion gear [better casting/freespool], reversible harness lugs, and the choice of orienting the gearbox "forward" or "rearward" for optimized ergonomics.
Interesting point about selling-off unused pieces from a conversion, but the 113HN comes all done, which is nice and convenient too.
Having talked to literally thousands of anglers inquiring about Baja Specials, I can say unequivocably that the issue is cosmetic; not enough "bling".
 
My thank also has two ss dogs, having 6 ball bearing and a floating spool  doesn't necessarely mean that it  is a better reel. I like my 113H tank much better...just my opinion.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Makule on May 10, 2012, 08:52:32 PM
Is there any substantive difference between the 113HN and the 113MTL?  Both as strong as the other?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: intili on May 11, 2012, 03:37:10 PM
I would have to say they are probably comparable, as they use the same drags and gear ratio, the 113MTL has more capacity, but seems to have more slop in the anti reverse, anyway the one i have does. I own both, but have not fished the MTL as i think it may be worth something someday. The funny thing is both these reels were sold at clearance by charkbait, i should have bought 3 each!
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Makule on May 21, 2012, 04:33:40 AM
Do they both have the "floating spool" design, or is that only on the HN?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: George4741 on May 28, 2012, 04:52:38 PM
Alan, I noticed you didn't use a carbon fiber washer (key #4) under the main gear because of a clearance concern.  I vaguely remember reading somewhere in this forum how someone placed a carbon fiber washer under the main gear of their Baja Special, but I can't find it, so I don't know how it performed.  

Lately, I've become obsessed about using HT100 and (or) carbontex washers everywhere I can think of, so I installed a carbontex #5 washer under the main gear of my Baja Special.  It is approximately the same size as the original hard plastic 4-155 washer.  Now I have a true 1+4 drag stack.  If the washer doesn't doesn't hold up under heavy use, I'm not too concerned.  I disassemble this reel after each fishing trip and will check and replace it, if necessary.

What are your thoughts, and anyone else's, on replacing this washer with carbon fiber?  
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on May 28, 2012, 05:31:10 PM
there is a penn ht-100 drag washer that fits perfectly.  can't remember now which one it is.  so here is the issue with placing a washer under the main gear.

thin penn drag washers - many of the penn ht-100 drag washer are a single sheet with a relatively loose weave.  these drag washers include the wahsers found in the 60, the 155, the 307 and the 320.  if you put these underneath the main gear, they get seriously flattened over time. they still work, but they do not look good. 

thick penn drag washers - these penn ht 100 drag washers have a fiberglass core sandwiched inbetween two layers of carbon fiber.  placed underneath the main gear, they hold up just fine. the problem is the extra thickness.  sometimes it throws things off.  most commonly it makes the main gear bang up against the right side plate, making it difficult to turn the handle. 

thin carbontex drag washers - these are high quality drag washers sold by smoothdrag.com.  they are as thin as the thin penn drag washers but the weave is very tight and they do not flatten out under extreme pressure like the penn drag washers will when they are placed under the main gear.  i doubt that the nice lady would want to break up sets of drag washers just so that you could use penn drag washers inside a main gear and one single carbontex drag washer underneath, but often that is the best combination for various reasons. 
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on May 28, 2012, 05:34:55 PM
george, thanks for asking.  http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=4422.0
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: George4741 on May 28, 2012, 08:07:20 PM
Alan, thank you for your prompt reply.  

I generally use a thick HT-100 under the main gear.  However, in the case of my 2/0 Senator and 349's (and my Baja Special, of course) I use a thin carbontex.  Since those sideplates are hard to find, I don't want to dremel them out for clearance.  Your comment about Dawn's washer sets is noted. ;)  Nothing I order is wasted. ;D  
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: borchcl on May 29, 2012, 05:04:28 PM
I have one Baja that has limited clearance between the a/r dogs and main gear. I had to grind the O.D. on a 6-113 HT-100 to get the thickness I needed. Seens good, have to see how it holds up when used.
borchcl
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: day0ne on May 29, 2012, 09:18:50 PM
Quote from: Makule on May 10, 2012, 08:52:32 PM
Is there any substantive difference between the 113HN and the 113MTL?  Both as strong as the other?

113MTL is wider, same width as 113H. 113HN is width of yellowtail special. 113MTL has 3 bearings, 113HN has 6. Both have double dogs. 113HN has disengaging pinion, 113MTL doesn't.113HN is topless, 113MTL isn't. Both use the same drag stack. 113HN has a full frame but is topless, 113MTL has half frame and top crossbars.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Makule on May 30, 2012, 06:43:45 PM
I was under the impression that the MTL was the bulletproof version, but sounds like the HN is tougher with better features.

Does the disengaging pinion gear in the HN actually make a difference in casting?  I know it should, but how much more distance is there in actual use (I know it's realistically impossible to directly compare the MTL to HN, since the spools don't weigh the same due to different line capacities, and the overall reel weights are different as well).
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Gman_WC on June 15, 2012, 03:14:28 AM
I had some free time tonight and pulled out a Fleabay 113hn reel I bought last year at the nice price.
It looks new with no scratches and the inspector sticker still on the foot.
My first impression is how much drag it has with the star backed out all the way.
There is a lot of slop in the handle even when cranked down.
I remember seeing somewhere different drag and washer setting for the baja.
Does this reel come stock with a heavy drag setting? Backed out if feels like it has at least 5lbs of drag.
-g
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: George4741 on June 15, 2012, 01:55:47 PM

Quote from: Gman_WC on June 15, 2012, 03:14:28 AM
My first impression is how much drag it has with the star backed out all the way.
There is a lot of slop in the handle even when cranked down.
I remember seeing somewhere different drag and washer setting for the baja.
Does this reel come stock with a heavy drag setting? Backed out if feels like it has at least 5lbs of drag.
-g

I thought the same thing with mine.  Bryan suggested the following drag arrangements.   

Quote from: Bryan Young on April 20, 2011, 07:16:19 PM
The Baja Special has those Versa-Drag (I think that is what they call it) where the metal washers are keyed and the HT-100s are eared, if my memory is correct.  it comes with 4 keyed metal washers and 4 HT-100 eared washers with a fiber washer under the gear stack.  All, correct me if I'm wrong.

The drag can be set up in any of the following configurations based upon the drag you need, and all configurations are just fine.

Max Drag - Gear, HT-100, Metal, HT-100, Metal, HT-100, Metal, HT-100, Metal
             - Gear, HT-100, HT-100, Metal, HT-100, Metal, HT-100, Metal, Metal
             - Gear, HT-100, HT-100, Metal, HT-100, HT-100, Metal, Metal, Metal
Min Drag  - Gear, HT-100, HT-100, HT-100, HT-100, Metal, Metal, Metal, Metal

Note, the stacking of metal washers or carbon washers, if done, doesn't matter where in the stack they are as long as there is a HT-100 adjacent to the gear and you end with a metal washer on top of the drag stack.

BTW I don't know about the sloppy handle.  Mine seems OK.
George
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Gman_WC on June 15, 2012, 02:29:04 PM
Well it bothered me so much that I pulled it apart and stayed up till 2am.
I took it down to the screws, cleaned off the excess oil and grease
and gave it the once over with the ratty new toothbrush.  ::)
The dry drags got the Cal's treatment. The configuration was Max.
(Thanks for looking that up George)
What I found out when  done was that the (Plastic star) when
tightened down to get the handle and nut on, it pre set min drag. I needed
to back out the star a bit. This kind of fixed my issue and dropped the low end some.
The handle is not sitting low on the gear sleeve and the handle wobbles a bit.
I'm going to get it a light test run on Salmon with 20# on Sunday to gauge it.
I have a fellow reel repair person fishing with me.
He's dead set against greasing drags. We'll see who has the smooth drag Sunday.  ;)
-g
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on June 16, 2012, 06:01:17 AM
Quote from: Gman_WC on June 15, 2012, 02:29:04 PM
I'm going to get it a light test run on Salmon with 20# on Sunday to gauge it.
I have a fellow reel repair person fishing with me.
He's dead set against greasing drags. We'll see who has the smooth drag Sunday.  ;)
-g

let us know!   ;D
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: basto on June 17, 2012, 06:06:16 AM
Quote from: Tunanorth on May 10, 2012, 05:57:15 PM

Having talked to literally thousands of anglers inquiring about Baja Specials, I can say unequivocably that the issue is cosmetic; not enough "bling".
 
How true!  There are so many components available to pimp up the stock 113h. If the Baja had come with red sideplates, they would have sold like hot cakes.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Gman_WC on June 19, 2012, 12:53:56 AM
Quote from: alantani on June 16, 2012, 06:01:17 AM
Quote from: Gman_WC on June 15, 2012, 02:29:04 PM
I'm going to get it a light test run on Salmon with 20# on Sunday to gauge it.
I have a fellow reel repair person fishing with me.
He's dead set against greasing drags. We'll see who has the smooth drag Sunday.  ;)
-g

let us know!   ;D
No update on the Baja as no fish was landed or played with it.
I got grief and a charity fish.

Boy did the wind come up sunday. Took the boy out and we had mixed results.
Fished N buoy area for salmon. Conditions..Lumpy 6-8 every 8. Krill all over the area.
Most of the 12 caught were 15# or better. Big one for the day was 27#, with 3-4 others close
and not many shakers. Came back under the gate about 2:30 with captian Tak at the wheel.
The coast guard passed us and were just going out to play.
-g

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: JasonF on June 20, 2012, 06:00:43 AM
I am having so much fun with my first Senator project that I have come to the conclusion that the 113hn will be bought the day I finish my 115 project.  What else can be done to trick these 113hn's out though?  They come very nicely set up.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: redsetta on June 20, 2012, 07:04:29 AM
G'day Jason,
I reckon you're spot on - they come very nicely set up in stock trim.
They're a bit like a Pro Gear in that regard.
An old maroon 113H is likely to be a lot more fun to play with, as per Sal's Tank (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3083.msg20871#msg20871 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3083.msg20871#msg20871)) - as well as being a daily workhorse.
Endless fun to be had with old Penns eh?! ;) ;D
Good luck with the next project, Justin
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: George4741 on June 20, 2012, 06:43:00 PM
Quote from: JasonF on June 20, 2012, 06:00:43 AM
  What else can be done to trick these 113hn's out though?  They come very nicely set up.

Yes, many of us think they are very nicely set up.  I don't even mind the "old school lack of bling" look.  About the only thing left to improve is a greased HT100 under the main gear.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: JasonF on June 20, 2012, 08:39:35 PM
I think the old school lack of bling is the factor that appeals most to me.  I already have a few Shimano Trinidads that will do what a 113hn will do, but better.  But I dont always want to fish with modern gear though.  I can picture a 113HN with a brown 7' boat rod.  Sweet!!  Screw it, I am heading to the tackle shop right now to buy one.  No kidding! :)
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: basto on July 10, 2012, 02:52:52 AM
Quote from: JasonF on June 20, 2012, 08:39:35 PM
I think the old school lack of bling is the factor that appeals most to me.  I already have a few Shimano Trinidads that will do what a 113hn will do, but better.  But I dont always want to fish with modern gear though.  I can picture a 113HN with a brown 7' boat rod.  Sweet!!  Screw it, I am heading to the tackle shop right now to buy one.  No kidding! :)
Interesting statement. I am just wondering what a Trinidad can do better than a 113hn.(both in stock condition)
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: AJ on July 15, 2012, 12:55:36 PM
My wife bought me one at Charkbait (last one they had in San Diego, hope they get more!).  ;D   Noticed there was grease spread in the reel, on side plates, etc. and surprised to see grease under the reel seat and in the screw holes for the reel seat and clamp.  :o  Maybe not to Alan's spec but a nice step in the right direction.  Great reel and I hope to put it to good use.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Makule on July 15, 2012, 07:00:46 PM
QuoteInteresting statement. I am just wondering what a Trinidad can do better than a 113hn.(both in stock condition)

Trinidad has stronger brakes and larger gears (which have certain advantages).  Think the gear ratio of the Trinidad is also higher.  Whether this translates into actual performance differences is debatable (I'm not taking sides because I've not fished with either).
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Alto Mare on July 15, 2012, 07:18:45 PM
You're comparing a $500 reel to a $200 reel :-\.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: drdre on August 16, 2012, 07:54:56 PM
I took apart my Baja and I cant get the "eccentric" lever to work properly.  I think I bent the essentric springs a little.  I also cannot figure out where the clutch springs go. can anyone help. Thanks ? ???
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on August 20, 2012, 08:12:25 AM
i am hoping that the tutorial has enough photos for you.  any progress?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Norcal Pescador on August 21, 2012, 01:16:59 AM
Quote from: JasonF on June 20, 2012, 06:00:43 AM
I am having so much fun with my first Senator project that I have come to the conclusion that the 113hn will be bought the day I finish my 115 project.  What else can be done to trick these 113hn's out though?  They come very nicely set up.

A thorough pre-use service and a better grip! That's it. (I put a 4/0 Kolekar on mine.)
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Joel.B on August 30, 2012, 04:28:15 AM
Quote from: Alto Mare on July 15, 2012, 07:18:45 PM
You're comparing a $500 reel to a $200 reel :-\.
I'd like to respectfully offer my opinion on this.
I love the old Penns- love em a bunch

buuuuut if I am throwing  and dropping iron all day I prefer a stock Torium to any 113

Faster, smoother, cast better and more ergonomically friendly

no soul though

When I get done with my "Yellow Tail Special" with all the Jvariance farkles with Power-Handle and Newell gears etc etc....I may change my mind

In two years I literally caught thousands of large YT and schoolie YFT on a Torium 16 with not a problem. I also had a Baja Special give it up after maybe a few hundred fish- spindle and gears had big issues.  One of those deals though- One Honda goes a million miles w/no problems, another blows a motor first month.....

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Makule on August 30, 2012, 06:19:37 PM
QuoteOne of those deals though- One Honda goes a million miles w/no problems, another blows a motor first month.....

Never had a Honda (although I drove a very early one, really liked it, and would have bought one if it was available), but prefer GM/Chevy trucks.  GM/Chevy does things in a different way.  Their trucks go a million miles with no problem.  Then, the whole company goes bankrupt (but I still drive a Chevy).
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: raumati01 on February 02, 2013, 08:25:36 AM
I bought a Baja special about four years ago on the strength of this review. My local tackle shop found it in the back of a cupboard after someone ordered it and never bought it, so I got a good deal on it.
I thought I'd show what it's capable of, this was a fishing session with my brother in law a couple of weeks back .After we got back he admitted he'd never actually caught a fish before and one of these kingies was his first, for the record these bruiserss were 16, 18 and 22kgs, we got smoked a couple of times too as I think the school I found was larger than the usual locals which are usually in the 10-15kg range.




(http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u569/raumati01/IMG_0514_zps0a02a308.jpg)
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on February 03, 2013, 08:40:29 PM
nice!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: saltydog on February 04, 2013, 03:28:53 PM
Very nice.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: JasonF on March 02, 2013, 07:20:47 PM
Yummy looking!!

Btw, does anyone know exactly what carbontex washer replaces the plastic one under the main?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johnD on July 09, 2013, 06:00:21 PM
Found this thread , it does not disappoint !
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: handi2 on September 27, 2013, 12:51:15 AM
I have serviced a few of these reels and it was enough for me to buy 2 for myself. I got one new in the box at a discount and it has a problem. The anti reverse ratched is not flat..!! When installed the dogs are only on the pins half way with the main gear set in place. This results in the drag star not going on far enough to put the handle on without having too much drag pressure. I'll flatten it out tomorow and see how it goes.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: floating doc on October 02, 2013, 03:39:30 AM
What happened with your repair?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on October 02, 2013, 08:06:59 AM
Quote from: handi2 on September 27, 2013, 12:51:15 AM
I have serviced a few of these reels and it was enough for me to buy 2 for myself. I got one new in the box at a discount and it has a problem. The anti reverse ratched is not flat..!! When installed the dogs are only on the pins half way with the main gear set in place. This results in the drag star not going on far enough to put the handle on without having too much drag pressure. I'll flatten it out tomorow and see how it goes.

ah, so THAT'S what happened!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Rusty hooks on November 12, 2013, 05:46:25 PM
Thanks a bunch for all the comments here on the HN...I was just about to embark on an Alto "tank" rebuild of a red H....

While I'm serious believer in the value of old Penn frames....it may be time for a new, USA made HN....still considering

I had my dremel out, sizing things up Alto....as daunting as it may be ::)

really interesting about the hollow vs solid sleeves.....interchangeable Alan?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: floating doc on November 12, 2013, 06:56:29 PM
I have trying to finish a 112HN for months.  I already had the donor reel, but I don't have a  113H for the narrow tank I want. When I spotted a NIB baja special last week for $190 I grabbed it.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: LTM on November 13, 2013, 05:05:28 PM
Finally read this entire post. Seems the only internal parts necessary to upgrade and max out this reel are a ss drag sleeve and thinner metal washers to increase  the amount/number of fiber drags (handle is external).  Are these parts available for those who may want to choose this reel vs the diy 113h YTS route? Heck, this 113HN has my attention now and Im just finishing up modifyng and still modding (due to the 7+1 by Bryan) THREE 113H reels (two YTS and one 113H)? After all there's nothing like having options and this site is ALL ABOUT OPTIONS after all.

Leo
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Rusty hooks on November 13, 2013, 05:57:39 PM
Quote from: floating doc on November 12, 2013, 06:56:29 PM
I have trying to finish a 112HN for months.  I already had the donor reel, but I don't have a  113H for the narrow tank I want. When I spotted a NIB baja special last week for $190 I grabbed it.

I now understand why I can't find one ::).....good find....the best I've seen on a new stock price is $229

Like Alan said...it's what's under the hood
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: floating doc on November 13, 2013, 06:50:18 PM
Quote from: Rusty hooks on November 13, 2013, 05:57:39 PM
Quote from: floating doc on November 12, 2013, 06:56:29 PM
I have trying to finish a 112HN for months.  I already had the donor reel, but I don't have a  113H for the narrow tank I want. When I spotted a NIB baja special last week for $190 I grabbed it.

I now understand why I can't find one ::).....good find....the best I've seen on a new stock price is $229

Like Alan said...it's what's under the hood

I couldn't pass that up.  It was bought several years ago but never used. The seller claimed that it has the full complement of bearings. I haven't opened it up to check.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Rusty hooks on December 04, 2013, 08:38:01 PM
Its holiday time...and I know how Christmas and fishing reels go together....well

Penn 113HN's are on sale....online   Bluewater outriggers online....

for 199.99...new with a warranty...mine is on a ups truck and I think they have a couple more available
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: maxpowers on January 27, 2014, 08:45:57 AM
I am thinking of buying some laminated CF and additional metal washers to increase the keyed washers to 6 vs the 4 currently in the reel.  Based on Alan's measurements of the HT-100 drag at 1.26 mm I think I can get 6 of the .90 mm keyed washers into there.  Does anyone think this will be a bad idea?  Just trying to get smoother drag at the higher range without having to really cranked down on the star.  Have anyone tried the .70 mm CF material?  Whould that be too thin at the higher drag ranges?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: RUSTY OLD COLT on January 27, 2014, 11:33:37 AM
 I recently picked up the 113hn baja special . It looks like penn has a winner with this reel. stainless steel parts, double dogs .,alum.frame, well greased inside and fells nice and smooth when cranking.The only thing I'm going to change on mine is the crank handle the dealer told me penn might be making smaller versions of this reel in the near future. Also go to penns web site and download the coupon for a free water proof backpack
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: floating doc on January 27, 2014, 08:49:34 PM
A smaller version of the baja special?  A factory 112HN would be super!
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: maxpowers on January 27, 2014, 09:50:20 PM
That would be sweet but the narrowed 112H mini tank with the insert is probably more robust.  I can't wait until Lee is able to start cutting the inserts for the 112H and 113H again.  I may even add them too my Newells to really take them to the next level.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Topshot on February 04, 2014, 01:17:34 AM
Quote from: RUSTY OLD COLT on January 27, 2014, 11:33:37 AM
I recently picked up the 113hn baja special . It looks like penn has a winner with this reel. stainless steel parts, double dogs .,alum.frame, well greased inside and fells nice and smooth when cranking.The only thing I'm going to change on mine is the crank handle the dealer told me penn might be making smaller versions of this reel in the near future. Also go to penns web site and download the coupon for a free water proof backpack
What where?? I want a free waterproof backpack
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: TomT on February 04, 2014, 07:31:26 AM
My understanding is that if you have a recent purchase of a new Baja 113hn, you can fill out a coupon on Penn's site to receive the bag.
TomT
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: RUSTY OLD COLT on February 04, 2014, 01:30:15 PM
Go to the Penn web site ,click on products ,then promotions and download the form .Its for any reel and products totaling $199.95
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: angleronfoot on March 10, 2014, 08:05:30 PM
Anyone know where to find a left hand conversion kit for this reel?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: floating doc on April 24, 2014, 03:36:13 AM
I took my 113HN apart to grease the drag, and get a coating of grease on all of bare inner surfaces. I can't get the eccentric springs back in without them riding underneath the eccentric.  :P 

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: handi2 on May 23, 2014, 04:18:38 PM
Scott's has them on sale right now for Memorial Day..!
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: p-deverett on May 24, 2014, 11:16:26 PM
I pulled my baja special apart for the pre use service, however I can't get the drag to back off enough, I have about 5+lbs of  drag with the star backed all the way off. I have dissasembled the reel several times now and get the same result. I have made sure the drag washers are well seated in the gear. The sleeve is all the way down and the anti reverse gear seems to be slightly concave on the bottom but it only goes the one way for the dogs to work. Any ideas would be helpful.
Thanks
Peter
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on May 24, 2014, 11:59:17 PM
Quote from: p-deverett on May 24, 2014, 11:16:26 PM
I pulled my baja special apart for the pre use service, however I can't get the drag to back off enough, I have about 5+lbs of  drag with the star backed all the way off. I have dissasembled the reel several times now and get the same result. I have made sure the drag washers are well seated in the gear. The sleeve is all the way down and the anti reverse gear seems to be slightly concave on the bottom but it only goes the one way for the dogs to work. Any ideas would be helpful.
Thanks
Peter

Did you replace the under gear Fiber Washer (4) with a thicker one?  Did you heavily grease the drag washers?

If you used a lot of grease you just tighten down the drag all the way to squeeze out excess then it should be fine. With a thicker washer under the gear sometimes it needs sanding down. You can also remove one of the belleville spring washers if you have to and it should not affect function.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: p-deverett on May 25, 2014, 12:12:29 AM
Thanks John, I did grease the drags but haven't replaced the under gear washer. Its currently not spooled yet so I can't give the drag a good workout. I'll probably remove one of the spring washes until the drag has seated.

Thanks
Peter
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on May 25, 2014, 12:45:36 AM
Quote from: p-deverett on May 25, 2014, 12:12:29 AM
Thanks John, I did grease the drags but haven't replaced the under gear washer. Its currently not spooled yet so I can't give the drag a good workout. I'll probably remove one of the spring washes until the drag has seated.

Thanks
Peter

That may do it. Be sure to let us know how it turns out. we hate mysteries like this :D.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: handi2 on May 25, 2014, 05:15:38 PM
Quote from: p-deverett on May 24, 2014, 11:16:26 PM
I pulled my baja special apart for the pre use service, however I can't get the drag to back off enough, I have about 5+lbs of  drag with the star backed all the way off. I have dissasembled the reel several times now and get the same result. I have made sure the drag washers are well seated in the gear. The sleeve is all the way down and the anti reverse gear seems to be slightly concave on the bottom but it only goes the one way for the dogs to work. Any ideas would be helpful.
Thanks
Peter

I dealt with the same thing until a new in the box Baja Special came in. The 2 outer Bellville washers had to both face down as seen in the new reels I opened.

Faced opposing or both up there was too much drag with star backed all the way out.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on May 25, 2014, 06:19:07 PM
Quote from: floating doc on April 24, 2014, 03:36:13 AM
I took my 113HN apart to grease the drag, and get a coating of grease on all of bare inner surfaces. I can't get the eccentric springs back in without them riding underneath the eccentric.  :P 

I'm a little confused by your problem. Can you give us more info?



best
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: p-deverett on May 31, 2014, 10:26:34 PM
Handi2, Thanks for the advice on the spring washers, I turned them around so they are both facing the reel (( and now the drag backs off with the star all the way out. When they were like this () the drag didn't back off.
Now to spool the reel and fish it.

Thanks
Peter
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: TomT on May 31, 2014, 11:24:50 PM
Baja special drags---
In Alan's tutorial he states that the Baja special should get an "easy" 25#'s of drag.  I just service 4 of these and got from 19 to 22#'s.  I am sure my drag testing method leaves a lot to be desired.  I attached the scale to the bottom of my fence and attached the baja specials to a fishing pole.  I then tied the fishing line to the scales.  With the star backed off all the way there was some resistance to the drag, but when I got the reel to slip, there was no movement of the scale.  I then tightened the drag a little and went to approx 5# drag.  Then tightened more and went to about 12# drag before the drag slipped.  Buttoned down all the way I got approx 20 #'s drag.  All 4 reels did approx the same.  I had just serviced these reels and found everything clean and dry.  I lubed the drags with Cal's grease and greased the reels.  I did NOT test the drags BEFORE servicing, but they were all working and nothing was wrong with the reels.
Should these reels test to a higher drag??   Is my testing system close enough for determining drag? 

I would like to add that I have been fishing all my life and I have never tested a drag to see if the reel was working correctly.  It either had drag or it didn't.  I now have even MORE respect for Sal & others who are testing drags all the time!  ;D  At 10 to 12 #'s I could crank the handle to get the drags to slip.  At 20#'s of drag there is no way I could crank the handle.   :D  I just had to hold the pole and lift up the end to get the drags to slip.  Our testors need to be nicknamed Hulk or Terminator!! ;D

I am satisfied that my drags are working OK.  But should I be concerned that they should test to higher than 25#'s?  Should I alter my testing procedure?
Thanks,
TomT
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on June 01, 2014, 03:43:05 AM
it's been a while, but the one i had was buttoned down pretty good when i put a scale to it.   :-\
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: SoCalAngler on June 01, 2014, 05:11:27 AM
I get 27lbs of drag on my 113HN with the star turned to stupid tight. I also cleaned the drag washers and installed Cal's grease before the test.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Alto Mare on June 01, 2014, 10:41:40 AM
Quote from: TomT on May 31, 2014, 11:24:50 PM
Baja special drags---
Should these reels test to a higher drag??   Is my testing system close enough for determining drag?  

I would like to add that I have been fishing all my life and I have never tested a drag to see if the reel was working correctly.  It either had drag or it didn't.  I now have even MORE respect for Sal & others who are testing drags all the time!  ;D  At 10 to 12 #'s I could crank the handle to get the drags to slip.  At 20#'s of drag there is no way I could crank the handle.   :D  I just had to hold the pole and lift up the end to get the drags to slip.  Our testors need to be nicknamed Hulk or Terminator!! ;D

Tom, it's really not that hard testing drags at high numbers. If you tie a line to a fence, having a scale in between, you'll be surprised how much you could pull by lifting and bending the rod while walking backwards and giving a good pull. I usually use a belt and heavier line to do my tests, I don't have the time to keep messing with  snapping lines. The results from must of my tests are NOT where the reel should be fished at, I usually push them to the max. The hardest drag test to me is by turning the handle while retrieving rolling weight...as a wagon and bricks, that one will give you a workout, but still doable. While testing drags with rolling weight as you turn the handle, you'll be testing gears, handle, frame, drags...everything on that reel. On my latest test I was pulling a rolling weight at 32 lbs, I got there with a couple of different reel, so I know 32lbs is my limit as I turn the handle. What surprised me was the two speed reel, I was able to push that same reel at 42lbs by shifting to low gear and it was still smooth. Holding a hanging weight while the rod is attached to something, you could go as high as 55lbs, depending on the rod and reel that you're testing at the time, you just need to make sure that you don't stand in front of the rod as you add weight.
My tests are posted here so anyone could confirm, there is no magic to it, it just happens ;D.

Mike Rice could hold close to 30lb without a belt ;D 
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kBGseTxMhc

Sal
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: TomT on June 02, 2014, 06:06:21 AM
Sal,
First let me say that I am honored to be having a discussion with Alto Mare.  I have been following Alan for a few years on fishing board sites.  A couple of years ago, I joined atani.com and have logged over 19 Days reading on this site and have fewer than 100 posts.  I have read almost everything posted on this site in the last 2 years and many posts from up to 5 years ago.  I always read everything you have to say and TRY to understand what you are saying.  There are about 50+ of you guys that are simply amazing!!  The rest of us are in awe!  :)
On the drag testing, I am sure some of my limits are the reel I was using (it's gear ratio, etc).  I am also sure some of the limits are my old arthritic body.  But I am not a 100# weakling. ;)   There is a county song that says, "I am not as good as I once was, but I am as good once as I ever was". ;D    I am just wondering if there is a difference in the drag that you could physically get by cranking the handle as you can get by lifting the pole--especially on a dead weight like a fence post??  For example, I could get 20# drag by lifting the pole, but by cranking against the dead weight, I could only crank the handle up to 15#'s.  Maybe if I had the weight on your wagon, (or Sharkhunter's dog), I could crank the handle up to more drag?  The real test is for me to load up a wagon and try for myself.  But then I would need to rig up a mounting setup for the pole similar to yours.
I also have a new found respect for guys that actually fish at super high drags. 
Thanks for all you do for all of us.
TomT

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Alto Mare on June 02, 2014, 07:00:37 AM
Tom, thanks for your kind words, but I'm just one of the guys learning things as we move along. There are lots of talented members here and as you, I'm just glad to be part of it and trying to absorb as much as I could.
Yes, the reel will take more stress lifting dead weight vs rolling weight, if you're able to lift 15lbs by turning the handle, you're not as weak as you think you are ;).
Let me point out that there is no need for you to do any tests as I do, my tests are not just for drags, they're also for gears.
The most simple way to test drags is by hooking a scale to anything that you believe  will hold, if it doesn't, you will then need to explain to the wife that the patio door handle was already damaged ;D, and pull by bending the rod about 3 or 4 feet.
You could increase it gradually as you get to the max, or to your settings that you want to be at.
On my star drag reels, I could get very close to my settings just by pulling the line with my hands.
After doing this for a while, anyone else could do it.
On rolling weight, the reel that you use has a lot to do with it, my latest test proved that a tiny two speed reel was much smoother than my 9/0 at high setting, actually the two speed reel pulled 10lbs more and with less effort.
Does this mean that the two speed reel is better than the 9/0? I'm going to say no, it depends of the type of fishing.
Try the wagon and weight, I would love to see someone else do it...I could send you some bricks, never mind, I won't be able to fit that many in a flat rate box ;D
Take care Tom, Sal
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: floating doc on June 02, 2014, 07:10:23 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on May 25, 2014, 06:19:07 PM
Quote from: floating doc on April 24, 2014, 03:36:13 AM
I took my 113HN apart to grease the drag, and get a coating of grease on all of bare inner surfaces. I can't get the eccentric springs back in without them riding underneath the eccentric.  :P 

I'm a little confused by your problem. Can you give us more info?



best

I got it done with some advice from another post. Thanks for asking. Here's a link if anyone else has this problem:

http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=10643.0

Sorry for not replying sooner, but I wanted to add this link, and it's hard to do that on my phone. I'm finally on my computer today.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: crackerman on July 23, 2014, 05:33:18 PM
If anyone has one of these 113hn drag washers kicking around, could post a picture of it next to or on top of a 115 and more importantly a 116l drag washer? I am very curious the see the difference.
Thanks
Graham
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: maxpowers on July 23, 2014, 05:52:12 PM
Well the 113 HN drag washer are eared.  Are you looking to compare the non eared portion to the 115 drag washer? 
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: crackerman on July 23, 2014, 06:47:31 PM
I was looking to compare the id of the main gears and see if modifying a 115 or 116 gear would be feasible with this type of washer.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: maxpowers on July 23, 2014, 09:53:32 PM
Widening the ID is easy to do.  Were you thinking of making cutting grooves in the gears?  I think you probably better off with the HEXAGON method instead, especially with brass gears.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Bill_N on October 02, 2014, 01:55:06 PM
I just picked up a Baja Special. It came with the reel lugs reversed. I took the screws out that go through the lugs expecting them to drop out but no cigar. Do I have to disassemble the sideplates to take them out and reverse them?

I guess this is a neat feature, but why not assemble them out? On a reel that prodces over 20 lbs of drag you'd think most people would want them that way.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on October 02, 2014, 03:02:52 PM
No lugs when fishing the rail. They switch out easy. Just pop off the side plate.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Bill_N on October 02, 2014, 03:12:14 PM
Thanks for the reply! I'm sure you're right but no rail on my boat :)
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Bill_N on October 02, 2014, 11:05:27 PM
Well I'm embarrassed to say that I was excited to get the lugs turned around tonight and removed the eccentric lever before pulling the sideplate. I now realize I didn't have to and the lug has turned so I can't get the lever on so it works properly. Is there a sticky on this somewhere?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: handi2 on October 03, 2014, 12:01:54 AM
I'm sure there is a picture here. At Mystic Reel Parts they have a tutorial on how to replace the eccentric and lever. It's a little different than most.

Here you go. Its the Torque model but close to what you need.

https://scottsbt.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203741799 (https://scottsbt.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203741799)


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackles old online store over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: skneip49 on November 08, 2014, 04:07:32 PM
I have been reading all these replies, looking for a comment regarding the dogs. I opened up my reel after my last trip for an inspection and service,  couldn't believe what I found. Metal shavings like you might find in a machine shop.

Turns out the dogs (pawls) were dinged up and deformed to the point of having "wings" for lack of a better term. These gouged up the backside of the main gear, couple of good sized grooves. Thought about putting them on a file,  but then decided this nearly 10 year old reel deserves some fresh parts. Ordered a pair of pawls, new gear sleeve and a metal drag star wheel to replace the graphite one.

Another question, I found a tiny bearing on the short shaft between the pinion gear and the large bearing on the spool. Did not see it in the pictures in the opening post.

Quote from: borchcl on May 29, 2012, 05:04:28 PM
I have one Baja that has limited clearance between the a/r dogs and main gear. I had to grind the O.D. on a 6-113 HT-100 to get the thickness I needed. Seens good, have to see how it holds up when used.
borchcl
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: jurelometer on November 08, 2014, 08:17:16 PM
Quote from: skneip49 on November 08, 2014, 04:07:32 PM
I have been reading all these replies, looking for a comment regarding the dogs. I opened up my reel after my last trip for an inspection and service,  couldn't believe what I found. Metal shavings like you might find in a machine shop.

Turns out the dogs (pawls) were dinged up and deformed to the point of having "wings" for lack of a better term. These gouged up the backside of the main gear, couple of good sized grooves. Thought about putting them on a file,  but then decided this nearly 10 year old reel deserves some fresh parts. Ordered a pair of pawls, new gear sleeve and a metal drag star wheel to replace the graphite one.

Another question, I found a tiny bearing on the short shaft between the pinion gear and the large bearing on the spool. Did not see it in the pictures in the opening post.

Does your reel have the upgrade that includes adding a ball bearing to the handle side of the gear sleeve?

A symptom of the gear sleeve out of alignment under high load would be the dog damage you describe.  I have read that the bearing upgrade is mainly for ease of winding under load.   I disagree- it should help stabilize the gear sleeve, which is the Achilles heel of the classic Penns.   more importantly, Penn seems to have the same position (on the purpose of the added bearing, not the Achilles heel  :) )  

Here is the design change/upgrade statement from Penn via Scotts:

https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/information/bajaspecialilinechange.pdf (https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/information/bajaspecialilinechange.pdf)


-j


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackles old online store over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: handi2 on November 08, 2014, 09:21:26 PM
That tiny bearing fits into a small opening in the center of the spool shaft.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: skneip49 on November 09, 2014, 04:26:44 AM
Roger that, but the bearing doesn't show on the schematic? And, no, my reel does not have the 6th bearing. I have fished it
hard with the drag buttoned down,  mostly yoyo iron for Baja Yellowtail but also tossing lures at Wahoo.

The reason I ordered a new gear sleeve is because when I was taking it apart,  I had difficulty getting some of the parts to slide off. And, it makes no sense that removing slop at the outer end of the gear sleeve would cause damage to the dogs on the inner end. Dogs get worn like this from heavy use. Like the damage I've seen on Toriums and Trinidads.



Quote from: handi2 on November 08, 2014, 09:21:26 PM
That tiny bearing fits into a small opening in the center of the spool shaft.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: jurelometer on November 09, 2014, 07:11:05 AM
Quote from: skneip49 on November 09, 2014, 04:26:44 AM

[...]

The reason I ordered a new gear sleeve is because when I was taking it apart,  I had difficulty getting some of the parts to slide off. And, it makes no sense that removing slop at the outer end of the gear sleeve would cause damage to the dogs on the inner end. Dogs get worn like this from heavy use. Like the damage I've seen on Toriums and Trinidads.



The gear sleeve tilts under heavy load because it is on an axle supported on only one end. If one end is tilted, so is the other.  When it tilts, the dog is no longer engaging the full width  of the ratchet that tilts with the gear sleeve.  This decreases  the load required for dog shredding.   Try  to see how much you can move the gear sleeve by pulling the handle knob away and toward the sideplate. 

The upgrade replaces the sideplate and adds a bearing.    Now the shaft is supported on both ends, the alignment remains true(er), and the dogs should engage more fully under load.   You should find it much more difficult to lever the gear sleeve out of alignment by pulling/pushing the knob.

The sleeve can be driven out of alignment  from drag pressure alone, but winding under heavy load increases the likelihood for a combination of reasons.

On most penns  the gears shred before the dog fails, but the baja special has hardened 17-4 stainless gears.   The dogs may still be your weak link, but I would expect it should take more load with the upgrade. 

It could be that you are right and that  the dog themselves are the source of the failure and will twist out of position under load. The dogs look a little on the thick side.   But keeping the shafts (and therefore the dogs and ratchet) aligned should still help in this scenario,  and Penn made a decision to strengthen the handle shaft assembly for a reason.

Hope this helps,

-j
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: skneip49 on November 09, 2014, 09:05:46 PM
Thanks for your patience and persistence with this old codger.
I will look at how all the parts align in a day or two,  when the parts get here.
The pal's certainly are thicker than the ratchet. And there's another thing. The ratchet is sort of domed, sort of "belleville" shaped,  and it's deformed up towards the main gear. I was worried about crashing into the main gear. I will look at that again as well.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: jurelometer on November 12, 2014, 08:43:04 PM
No worries.  We are all learning here. Please post what you find, so we can learn some more :)

It looks to me like the dogs might have been  made thicker than normal to help them stay engaged.  There was probably not enough room to also make the ratchet thicker.  Plus it looks  like the dog spring passes under the dog (is this correct?).  This would mean that the dog does not have a  flat surface to ride on, which  could contribute to the dog tilting as well.   Once gear or dog pairs get angled out of alignment,  the radial load starts to transfer to axial load pushing the parts away from each other, which in turn causes more tilting.    It would be interesting to see if the new USA Senators had any design changes in this area.

BTW: If your drag was set within the specs, you might want to contact Penn.  It would seem that an argument could be made that an upgrade should be covered.

-J
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: skneip49 on November 18, 2014, 10:55:25 PM
Here are 3 pics of the damaged dogs from my reel. I included the new ones on the left and right for comparison.
I took a pic of the main gear as well to show the grooves, but inadvertently deleted it. ::)

The "dogs" or Pawls are a little thicker than the ratchet that they engage. The design is a little goofy in that the detent springs go on the post and the pawl goes on top of that, held in place by the main gear. I don't know if you can see the deformed teeth on the pawls, but they are pretty dinged up.

I have never used this reel for bait fishing, where we flyline a bait and let the fish run with it before putting the reel in gear. So there was no time that the reel was slammed into gear so that the pawls crashed into the ratchet.

It has been used only for fishing jigs and bombs, Yellowtail mostly and Wahoo, too. After casting or dropping the jig/bomb, the reel is placed in gear to start the retrieve. So, the cause of the deformity of the pawls is strictly the pressure applied when the fish took line under heavy drag. On the backside of the main gear where it contacts the pawls, there are two distinct grooves, one deeper that the other, the one worn into it from the deformed teeth on the pawls. New pawls and a metal drag star along with a nice clean and lube, and it's ready for another ten years of fishing.  :)
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: handi2 on November 19, 2014, 02:00:40 AM
I have serviced many of these reels and use 2 of them. I have noticed the ratchet gear not being flat. It also seems the dogs float on their pins and actually can rub the bottom of the main gear but not enough to affect anything. All of mine are the newer ones.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: skneip49 on November 19, 2014, 03:39:01 AM
Quote from: handi2 on November 19, 2014, 02:00:40 AM
I have serviced many of these reels and use 2 of them. I have noticed the ratchet gear not being flat. It also seems the dogs float on their pins and actually can rub the bottom of the main gear but not enough to affect anything. All of mine are the newer ones.

This is what I had to say in my original post.

"I opened up my reel after my last trip for an inspection and service, couldn't believe what I found. Metal shavings like you might find in a machine shop. Turns out the dogs (pawls) were dinged up and deformed to the point of having "wings" for lack of a better term. These gouged up the backside of the main gear, couple of good sized grooves."

I don't know if ordering and installing the three parts of the inline change would improve things. I did replace the graphite drag star with the metal one. This is an '04 or '05 vintage reel. Does not have the side plate, bearing and collar that were part of the inline change.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: George4741 on November 19, 2014, 04:04:55 PM
skneip49, does it appear that the dogs are damaged by slipping between the main gear and ratchet gear, or underneath the ratchet gear?

Early on I installed a 6-49 (HT100 from a Penn 49) under the main gear of my Baja Special. It has a much larger diameter than the wimpy 4-155 fiber washer and, hopefully, it keeps the dogs from flopping around and prevents damage. My reel is also the newer model with the additional bearing.   
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: skneip49 on November 19, 2014, 05:08:26 PM
I believe the damage to the teeth of these pawls is due to the soft material they are made from. Softer than the ratchet for sure. Fishing a buttoned down drag creates a lot of pressure. I mean we tighten the star about as much as we can. Yellowtail are structure oriented fish, and wherever we fish for them, they try to go back to the safety of that structure. Whether rocky bottom or pinnacles or kelp, they "just like to go home."

If you give them the chance, they will pull drag and try to earn their freedom. Very powerful and even though you think your drag is tight, a smaller fish, mid-teens, will amaze you. Usually 40 lb line when fishing live bait, 50 lb for yoyo iron. Fish a dropper loop just off the bottom with 60 lb minimum. Yellowtail 101. ;)
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: maxpowers on November 23, 2014, 07:19:05 PM
i found another problem with the baja.  yesterday i was going to service my baja for the offseason.  i was not able to get the reel into gear no matter what.  i took the reel apart and found that the pinion shaft and the pinion did not slide easily.  the springs and the yoke were stillin good shape.  I cleaned out the pinion as best i could and also cleaned and lubed the shaft.  afterward i was able to get the reel in gear again.  but now i really am leery of using this reel if this happen again.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on November 23, 2014, 09:30:40 PM
Quote from: maxpowers on November 23, 2014, 07:19:05 PM
i found another problem with the baja.  yesterday i was going to service my baja for the offseason.  i was not able to get the reel into gear no matter what.  i took the reel apart and found that the pinion shaft and the pinion did not slide easily.  the springs and the yoke were stillin good shape.  I cleaned out the pinion as best i could and also cleaned and lubed the shaft.  afterward i was able to get the reel in gear again.  but now i really am leery of using this reel if this happen again.

Dunno If I would put this in the "problem" category? This is an area that has to slide easily, probably just had a touch of salt in there.

Point is, if a reel is popular enough any area could have some trouble in the saltwater environment. Many, many hundred of Baja's have been used without this being identified as a "problem" area as far as I know. Just one more spot to keep lubed.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: handi2 on November 24, 2014, 12:52:53 AM
If you look at the picture I posted you can see the right side dog "floating" on the pin. All of the ones I have been thru are all the same. I have never heard of any problems like this before but the way they are designed the main gear lays on top and keeps the dogs in place.

I stole this picture from Alan and you can see it much better.

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: MarkT on November 30, 2014, 03:03:27 AM
Maybe put a washer on top of the dog so the main can hold it down?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: handi2 on December 05, 2014, 03:00:46 PM
Quote from: maxpowers on November 23, 2014, 07:19:05 PM
i found another problem with the baja.  yesterday i was going to service my baja for the offseason.  i was not able to get the reel into gear no matter what.  i took the reel apart and found that the pinion shaft and the pinion did not slide easily.  the springs and the yoke were stillin good shape.  I cleaned out the pinion as best i could and also cleaned and lubed the shaft.  afterward i was able to get the reel in gear again.  but now i really am leery of using this reel if this happen again.

The yoke is designed to go in one way. It has been machined with a smooth spot on the side that the eccentric jack rides on. Much like the Shimano and other reels. That may be the problem.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: maxpowers on December 05, 2014, 06:17:00 PM
Quote from: handi2 on December 05, 2014, 03:00:46 PM
Quote from: maxpowers on November 23, 2014, 07:19:05 PM
i found another problem with the baja.  yesterday i was going to service my baja for the offseason.  i was not able to get the reel into gear no matter what.  i took the reel apart and found that the pinion shaft and the pinion did not slide easily.  the springs and the yoke were stillin good shape.  I cleaned out the pinion as best i could and also cleaned and lubed the shaft.  afterward i was able to get the reel in gear again.  but now i really am leery of using this reel if this happen again.

The yoke is designed to go in one way. It has been machined with a smooth spot on the side that the eccentric jack rides on. Much like the Shimano and other reels. That may be the problem.

Handi2,

This reel was working fine on my previous trip.  After the trip I gave it a quick wash and racked it.  Thinking I will go back out in a few days I did not do a thorough wash down.  Time passed and I was going thru my gears to do a winter cleaning and check-up.  The Baja would not go into gear and I didn't understand why.  After taking it apart and visually inspecting to see I could not find anything wrong.  Only when I got the pinion out and was trying to take the pinion shaft out that I noticed that the shaft was stuck fairly tight on the pinion.  I suspect had the reel been left in gear, I would have never found this out.  Maybe I am the only one to have this happen to but it is somewhat disheartening for a nice feature like the live spindle to potentially have this issue. 
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Bryan Young on December 05, 2014, 09:06:46 PM
it could also be the bearings that are causing this problem.  There are 2 bearings to support the live spindle/pinion gear.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: maxpowers on December 05, 2014, 09:50:59 PM
Quote from: Bryan Young on December 05, 2014, 09:06:46 PM
it could also be the bearings that are causing this problem.  There are 2 bearings to support the live spindle/pinion gear.

The bearings are fine.  They are opened and oiled with TSI.  They actually spin like crazy.  It was the pinion shaft and the pinion basically stuck in freespool mode even though it was engaged.  I think this doesn't happen as often because most reels are left in gear.  Once dislodged, the pinion slid very easy on the shaft, and engaged the main crisply.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: handi2 on December 27, 2014, 12:48:36 AM
I did some research on a similar Penn reel using thinner metal washers and drag washers and could only fit one more. I didn't think it was worth it. It was a Penn Torque..
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: BMITCH on February 20, 2015, 12:27:11 AM
Hey folks, I'm jumping into a service on a Baja for a friend. Got to the spool and noticed it's the new style with the bearing in the spool. Question is how to remove the bearing for cleaning and service. You guys using a small hook or something similar??
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on February 20, 2015, 12:45:01 AM
if it's the tiny bearing on the right side of the spool, be very careful not to crush it.  it should come out easily. 
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: BMITCH on February 20, 2015, 01:05:56 AM
Yeah that's the one Alan. What do you do? Get up under it with a hook pick and pull out?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: BMITCH on February 25, 2015, 10:03:41 PM
Ok, quick question. I briefly read through this tutorial and saw no mention of opening up the bearings and TSIing them. Do all the bearings get opened? What about the one for the handle slop? This one will be exposed most often to saltwater. Do you guys leave this one sealed?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on February 25, 2015, 11:59:02 PM
just the spool bearings.  the bearing around the base of the gear sleeve can be packed with cal's grease since it's so close the drag washers.  the bearing that supports the drive shaft and is located under the star can be packed with yamaha grease. 
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: BMITCH on February 26, 2015, 12:39:31 AM
Thanks Alan. :D
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on July 23, 2015, 05:00:56 PM
does the steel rings on the side plates could be take out from the side plates just like the 113h?

I tried to take them out to put some light grease and prevent corrosion but they seem to be glued or something.. didnt tried too hard to dont crush or put nicks on the rings.

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on July 23, 2015, 05:32:14 PM
Quote from: steelfish on July 23, 2015, 05:00:56 PM
does the steel rings on the side plates could be take out from the side plates just like the 113h?

I tried to take them out to put some light grease and prevent corrosion but they seem to be glued or something.. didnt tried too hard to dont crush or put nicks on the rings.



I wouldn't worry about it. As long as the screws going into the frame are well greased you have solved the biggest worry. As tight as they fit the side plate little salt will get behind them.

After a service I wipe down the outside with a rag to remove excess grease from the screw holes etc and rub this all over the reel. Puts a light coat of grease all over the outside. These rings may be stainless as well...Keta has my reel so I can't check for you.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on July 23, 2015, 05:45:28 PM
Quote from: maxpowers on December 05, 2014, 06:17:00 PM
Quote from: handi2 on December 05, 2014, 03:00:46 PM
Quote from: maxpowers on November 23, 2014, 07:19:05 PM
i found another problem with the baja.  yesterday i was going to service my baja for the offseason.  i was not able to get the reel into gear no matter what.  i took the reel apart and found that the pinion shaft and the pinion did not slide easily.  the springs and the yoke were stillin good shape.  I cleaned out the pinion as best i could and also cleaned and lubed the shaft.  afterward i was able to get the reel in gear again.  but now i really am leery of using this reel if this happen again.

The yoke is designed to go in one way. It has been machined with a smooth spot on the side that the eccentric jack rides on. Much like the Shimano and other reels. That may be the problem.

Handi2,

This reel was working fine on my previous trip.  After the trip I gave it a quick wash and racked it.  Thinking I will go back out in a few days I did not do a thorough wash down.  Time passed and I was going thru my gears to do a winter cleaning and check-up.  The Baja would not go into gear and I didn't understand why.  After taking it apart and visually inspecting to see I could not find anything wrong.  Only when I got the pinion out and was trying to take the pinion shaft out that I noticed that the shaft was stuck fairly tight on the pinion.  I suspect had the reel been left in gear, I would have never found this out.  Maybe I am the only one to have this happen to but it is somewhat disheartening for a nice feature like the live spindle to potentially have this issue. 

Stainless into stainless will corrode. Not the quick bubbly looking stuff on brass or chrome but tiny little bits that are amazingly strong. Anyone with experience with old Newells can attest to its power to seize up stainless parts.

The spool shaft and pinion are not of the same alloy and have very tight tolerance for performance. Therefore a tiny bit of corrosion will bind the pinion. Clean with soaks of Corrosion-X then simple regular grease is all that is required. Maybe a touch of Fred's trick of a small drill bit with some fine steel wool wrapped around it to polish by hand if necessary.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on July 23, 2015, 06:37:46 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on July 23, 2015, 05:32:14 PM
Quote from: steelfish on July 23, 2015, 05:00:56 PM
does the steel rings on the side plates could be take out from the side plates just like the 113h?

I tried to take them out to put some light grease and prevent corrosion but they seem to be glued or something.. didnt tried too hard to dont crush or put nicks on the rings.



I wouldn't worry about it. As long as the screws going into the frame are well greased you have solved the biggest worry. As tight as they fit the side plate little salt will get behind them.

After a service I wipe down the outside with a rag to remove excess grease from the screw holes etc and rub this all over the reel. Puts a light coat of grease all over the outside. These rings may be stainless as well...Keta has my reel so I can't check for you.

thanks for your comment, I was actually thinking the same on the steel rings, why botther to open them up if they are really tight close.

so, its your reel what Lee is waiting for ? nice, I sent him my comments on the 1 ratchet attemp he made, so he will make some adjustments, and now with your reel in his hands he will test the parts, I have really high hopes that something good will coming from Lee pretty soon.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on July 23, 2015, 06:51:51 PM
Lee has had my reel for a few days now. Waiting to see what he comes up with  ;).
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on July 23, 2015, 08:17:35 PM
They appear to be SS. 

I will start a new thread on fixing the AR "problem". 

I like the thing Penn did to this reel.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Rivverrat on July 23, 2015, 10:03:49 PM
Looking forward to your comments Lee. Looks like Penn may be sending me a new US113 not sure whats going to happen yet.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Frank on July 23, 2015, 10:20:48 PM
I have never worked on a Baja Special and I have no idea if the sideplate rings are glued on or greased for protection. I do know over the last forty five years if I had a sideplate ring on a Penn or Newell that wouldn't come off easily I would put it in the freezer over night, ring facing down, and the next morning I would find it had fallen off or it took minimal effort to remove it.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on July 23, 2015, 11:30:20 PM
Quote from: Frank on July 23, 2015, 10:20:48 PM
I have never worked on a Baja Special and I have no idea if the sideplate rings are glued on or greased for protection. I do know over the last forty five years if I had a sideplate ring on a Penn or Newell that wouldn't come off easily I would put it in the freezer over night, ring facing down, and the next morning I would find it had fallen off or it took minimal effort to remove it.

nice trick, but for now I will leave SS rings alone, but since Im really anal on my own reels maintenance, I will put some drops of tsi321 on some zones between the SS rings and the frame, it wont hurt anything and I heard SS and aluminuim dont like to be together, tsi321 is not that expensive so, worst thing is that it wont do anything and I spent $0.75 there.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: jurelometer on July 24, 2015, 06:47:45 PM
Quote from: steelfish on July 23, 2015, 11:30:20 PM
Quote from: Frank on July 23, 2015, 10:20:48 PM
I have never worked on a Baja Special and I have no idea if the sideplate rings are glued on or greased for protection. I do know over the last forty five years if I had a sideplate ring on a Penn or Newell that wouldn't come off easily I would put it in the freezer over night, ring facing down, and the next morning I would find it had fallen off or it took minimal effort to remove it.

nice trick, but for now I will leave SS rings alone, but since Im really anal on my own reels maintenance, I will put some drops of tsi321 on some zones between the SS rings and the frame, it wont hurt anything and I heard SS and aluminuim dont like to be together, tsi321 is not that expensive so, worst thing is that it wont do anything and I spent $0.75 there.


As the ratio of stainless to aluminum goes up, the galvanic corrosion  potential increases.  So a reel with stainless rings and foot attached to a aluminum frame (especially cast aluminum) is at much more risk of galvanic corrosion than an all aluminum setup with just some stainless screws.   The reel is acting like a battery when exposed to salt water.   The more stainless to aluminum, the better the battery.

The recommended  fix is to  create a barrier between the dissimilar metals.  This is usually done with grease or specialized compounds.  TSI claims that 301 reduces galvanic corrosion, so 321 might be worth a shot as a short term technique.

Nice trick on the freezer!


-J
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on July 24, 2015, 08:04:57 PM
Quote from: jurelometer on July 24, 2015, 06:47:45 PM
Quote from: steelfish on July 23, 2015, 11:30:20 PM
Quote from: Frank on July 23, 2015, 10:20:48 PM
I have never worked on a Baja Special and I have no idea if the sideplate rings are glued on or greased for protection. I do know over the last forty five years if I had a sideplate ring on a Penn or Newell that wouldn't come off easily I would put it in the freezer over night, ring facing down, and the next morning I would find it had fallen off or it took minimal effort to remove it.

nice trick, but for now I will leave SS rings alone, but since Im really anal on my own reels maintenance, I will put some drops of tsi321 on some zones between the SS rings and the frame, it wont hurt anything and I heard SS and aluminuim dont like to be together, tsi321 is not that expensive so, worst thing is that it wont do anything and I spent $0.75 there.


As the ratio of stainless to aluminum goes up, the galvanic corrosion  potential increases.  So a reel with stainless rings and foot attached to a aluminum frame (especially cast aluminum) is at much more risk of galvanic corrosion than an all aluminum setup with just some stainless screws.   The reel is acting like a battery when exposed to salt water.   The more stainless to aluminum, the better the battery.

The recommended  fix is to  create a barrier between the dissimilar metals.  This is usually done with grease or specialized compounds.  TSI claims that 301 reduces galvanic corrosion, so 321 might be worth a shot as a short term technique.
Nice trick on the freezer!
-J

you know, I was wrong in a part of my last post, the Baja SS rings never touch the aluminuim frame, they are on the outside face of the side plates which are not aluminium.
but on the reel foot being SS and the frame aluminuim we still have that galvanic corrosion risk.
talking about a possible barrier to keep the alum and SS separated, I have seen in some reels a plastic sheet between the SS reel foot and the alum frame.

have any one tried a customized plastic sheet there like the ones on the penn int 50T and few others

like this as example
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/alextellofotos/carrretes/Penn%2050T%20int%20P1040903_zpshqayeqj3.jpg) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/alextellofotos/media/carrretes/Penn%2050T%20int%20P1040903_zpshqayeqj3.jpg.html)

we dont want to be like this
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/alextellofotos/carrretes/grease%20on%20the%20reel%20foot_zpstsammzku.jpg) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/alextellofotos/media/carrretes/grease%20on%20the%20reel%20foot_zpstsammzku.jpg.html)


mine has a lot of yamaha grease under the reel foot right now but maybe a milk crate can donate a section for the barrier


Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: jurelometer on July 25, 2015, 01:02:51 AM
Quote from: steelfish on July 24, 2015, 08:04:57 PM
Quote from: jurelometer on July 24, 2015, 06:47:45 PM
Quote from: steelfish on July 23, 2015, 11:30:20 PM
Quote from: Frank on July 23, 2015, 10:20:48 PM
I have never worked on a Baja Special and I have no idea if the sideplate rings are glued on or greased for protection. I do know over the last forty five years if I had a sideplate ring on a Penn or Newell that wouldn't come off easily I would put it in the freezer over night, ring facing down, and the next morning I would find it had fallen off or it took minimal effort to remove it.

nice trick, but for now I will leave SS rings alone, but since Im really anal on my own reels maintenance, I will put some drops of tsi321 on some zones between the SS rings and the frame, it wont hurt anything and I heard SS and aluminuim dont like to be together, tsi321 is not that expensive so, worst thing is that it wont do anything and I spent $0.75 there.


As the ratio of stainless to aluminum goes up, the galvanic corrosion  potential increases.  So a reel with stainless rings and foot attached to a aluminum frame (especially cast aluminum) is at much more risk of galvanic corrosion than an all aluminum setup with just some stainless screws.   The reel is acting like a battery when exposed to salt water.   The more stainless to aluminum, the better the battery.

The recommended  fix is to  create a barrier between the dissimilar metals.  This is usually done with grease or specialized compounds.  TSI claims that 301 reduces galvanic corrosion, so 321 might be worth a shot as a short term technique.
Nice trick on the freezer!
-J

you know, I was wrong in a part of my last post, the Baja SS rings never touch the aluminuim frame, they are on the outside face of the side plates which are not aluminium.
but on the reel foot being SS and the frame aluminuim we still have that galvanic corrosion risk.
talking about a possible barrier to keep the alum and SS separated, I have seen in some reels a plastic sheet between the SS reel foot and the alum frame.

have any one tried a customized plastic sheet there like the ones on the penn int 50T and few others

[...]


mine has a lot of yamaha grease under the reel foot right now but maybe a milk crate can donate a section for the barrier




Uggh- not pretty


I would consider hdpe tape.  the barrier can be thin.    A little thicker tape or sheet will allow re-use.  You can get it at hardware stores- through Amazon- or eve McMaster Carr if you like spending extra :)   Milk-jug plastic (LDPE) would probably work as well - but you can go thinner with HDPE and not worry about it compressing or flowing/creeping as much- if the LDPE plastic is thick enough it could flow slightly over time and let the screws loosen a little.

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: nelz on July 25, 2015, 03:47:07 AM
Does the main gear drop around the main gear bearing (key #5a)?  That is, does the bearing fit into the main gear hole or does the main gear sit on top of the bearing?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on July 25, 2015, 05:41:33 AM
It fits inside the gear.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on July 25, 2015, 06:09:12 AM
Quote from: nelz on July 25, 2015, 03:47:07 AM
Does the main gear drop around the main gear bearing (key #5a)?  That is, does the bearing fit into the main gear hole or does the main gear sit on top of the bearing?

Like Keta said, it's inside the first CF washer.

There are two CF washers on the Baja, one has a big center hole on which the bearing fits inside, and then the rest of the CF washers have a smaller ID hole almost the same size of the OD of drive shaft
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on July 25, 2015, 06:48:50 AM
Quote from: jurelometer on July 25, 2015, 01:02:51 AM
I would consider hdpe tape.  the barrier can be thin.    A little thicker tape or sheet will allow re-use.  You can get it at hardware stores- through Amazon- or eve McMaster Carr if you like spending extra :)   Milk-jug plastic (LDPE) would probably work as well - but you can go thinner with HDPE and not worry about it compressing or flowing/creeping as much- if the LDPE plastic is thick enough it could flow slightly over time and let the screws loosen a little.

What do you think about this silicone tape for anti-galvanic corrosion barrier?
http://www.xtremetape.com

I have many of them it will let the reel foot be tighten really good on the frame since the tape will just expand as you tighten the screws
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: jurelometer on July 25, 2015, 06:58:16 AM
Quote from: steelfish on July 25, 2015, 06:48:50 AM
Quote from: jurelometer on July 25, 2015, 01:02:51 AM
I would consider hdpe tape.  the barrier can be thin.    A little thicker tape or sheet will allow re-use.  You can get it at hardware stores- through Amazon- or eve McMaster Carr if you like spending extra :)   Milk-jug plastic (LDPE) would probably work as well - but you can go thinner with HDPE and not worry about it compressing or flowing/creeping as much- if the LDPE plastic is thick enough it could flow slightly over time and let the screws loosen a little.

What do you think about this silicone tape for anti-galvanic corrosion barrier?
http://www.xtremetape.com

I have many of them it will let the reel foot be tighten really good on the frame since the tape will just expand as you tighten the screws


I think I would go with something thinner and less elastic.  Might be hard to maintain a specific torque setting over time with silicone tape.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: jonnou on July 25, 2015, 10:39:31 AM


As the ratio of stainless to aluminum goes up, the galvanic corrosion  potential increases.  So a reel with stainless rings and foot attached to a aluminum frame (especially cast aluminum) is at much more risk of galvanic corrosion than an all aluminum setup with just some stainless screws.   The reel is acting like a battery when exposed to salt water.   The more stainless to aluminum, the better the battery.

The recommended  fix is to  create a barrier between the dissimilar metals.  This is usually done with grease or specialized compounds.  TSI claims that 301 reduces galvanic corrosion, so 321 might be worth a shot as a short term technique.
Nice trick on the freezer!
-J
[/quote]

you know, I was wrong in a part of my last post, the Baja SS rings never touch the aluminuim frame, they are on the outside face of the side plates which are not aluminium.
but on the reel foot being SS and the frame aluminuim we still have that galvanic corrosion risk.

have any one tried a customized plastic sheet there like the ones on the penn int 50T and few others





[/quote]http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=11657.msg113078#msg113078
i think this will work but it is too early to tell yet
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: PacRat on July 25, 2015, 03:32:34 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Burndy-P8A-Oxide-Inhibiting-Compounds-Container/dp/B008KLX2RY

This stuff might be better than marine grease.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: PacRat on July 25, 2015, 03:52:55 PM
http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=02031
t
Here's another product that's worth a look. This is a corrosion inhibitor that works real good but smells real bad. This is like a more refined aerosol version of Cosmoline. It sprays on and penetrates with the consistency of WD40 but then cures to the consistency of paraffin wax. Any petroleum distillate will work as a solvent for removing it so WD40, mineral spirits, lighter fluid or paint thinner will take it right off. You can layer it by applying additional coats which will thicken it up. Another good use for boat owners is to mist your on-board tools and they won't rust. Also very good for long-term storage of anything you don't want to rust or corrode. The only drawback is that it mostly remains tacky and will make your hands tacky.

If I were using it on a reel foot; I would apply a couple layers to both sides, letting it cure up for 15 minutes between applications. Then I would assemble the foot to frame as usual and torque the screws then wipe of any excess Lectra-Shield with solvent.

I use this stuff in chemical plants and marine environments with great results. The only disadvantage is the smell is unpleasant.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on July 25, 2015, 04:02:25 PM
Quote from: PacRat on July 25, 2015, 03:52:55 PM
http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=02031 The only disadvantage is the smell is unpleasant.

Even after it dries/cures?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on July 25, 2015, 04:03:48 PM
Quote from: PacRat on July 25, 2015, 03:32:34 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Burndy-P8A-Oxide-Inhibiting-Compounds-Container/dp/B008KLX2RY

This stuff might be better than marine grease.


I use De-Ox and No Corrode is similar.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: foakes on July 25, 2015, 04:23:08 PM
On stands screwing to aluminum frames -- I generally just cut a silouette match flexible plastic piece as a spacer -- grease the top and bottom liberally with Yamaha Marine grease -- screw it down while making sure the screws also have plenty of grease -- along with the rod mounting nuts and bolts having plenty of grease where they touch the frame --tighten it up -- and you are done.

Spray and wipe off excess with WD-40.

Best and cheapest I have found is the plastic 1 quart containers motor oil comes in.  They are free throw-aways -- and come in red, green, black, yellow, silver, blue, etc..  So can be color-keyed for match or contrast.  Since they are made of a flexible and strong enough material to contain oil safely -- and are tough and thin -- they simply work efficiently and well.

Available for free at auto parts stores, garages, and dumpsters.

Best,

Fred

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/A97727AA-D3D2-458A-B128-5CF4CAE67C7C_zpsyqqoj8ql.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/A97727AA-D3D2-458A-B128-5CF4CAE67C7C_zpsyqqoj8ql.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: PacRat on July 25, 2015, 04:50:52 PM
Thanks Fred, Great tip.

Lee, The Lectra-Shield won't stink forever, especially if it is sandwiched between two pieces of metal with the excess wiped away. Also, the field I notice that when I return to a site the surface sprayed Lectra-Shield no longer stinks. With that said....never use it in the house as I don't know how long the smell will linger. When I use it on the job I get overspray on my clothes that lingers for a while. When this stuff cures you can scape it off with your thumbnail but is stays in cracks and crevices real well. I can always tell when a contractor has applied it because the copper will still be bright and shiny where it's applied. We use this in paper mills, power plants, chemical plants, refineries, petroleum storage facilities, etc. all high acid environments.

To describe the smell; You know when you buy a new end-mill or cutting tool and it's wrapped in that brown corrosion inhibitor paper and it has a bit of residue on the steel? That's what it smells like.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on July 25, 2015, 05:39:10 PM
Quote from: PacRat on July 25, 2015, 03:52:55 PM
http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=02031
t
Here's another product that's worth a look.

Since you use it and know it works on your field then it sounds like a product to check it out.

After two or three fishing trips with few catches, I bet the smell should go away.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on July 25, 2015, 05:49:24 PM
CRC makes good products.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: day0ne on July 25, 2015, 06:57:31 PM
A great product is TEF-GEL. ( http://www.tefgel.com/contain.php?param=tefgel_infor ) It is made just for this type application
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: jonnou on July 26, 2015, 09:13:02 AM
Im with Fred. You can't beat a Gasket of inert material.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: SoCalAngler on July 27, 2015, 04:21:19 AM
Quote from: jonnou on July 25, 2015, 10:39:31 AM


As the ratio of stainless to aluminum goes up, the galvanic corrosion  potential increases.  So a reel with stainless rings and foot attached to a aluminum frame (especially cast aluminum) is at much more risk of galvanic corrosion than an all aluminum setup with just some stainless screws.   The reel is acting like a battery when exposed to salt water.   The more stainless to aluminum, the better the battery.

The recommended  fix is to  create a barrier between the dissimilar metals.  This is usually done with grease or specialized compounds.  TSI claims that 301 reduces galvanic corrosion, so 321 might be worth a shot as a short term technique.
Nice trick on the freezer!
-J

you know, I was wrong in a part of my last post, the Baja SS rings never touch the aluminuim frame, they are on the outside face of the side plates which are not aluminium.
but on the reel foot being SS and the frame aluminuim we still have that galvanic corrosion risk.

have any one tried a customized plastic sheet there like the ones on the penn int 50T and few others





[/quote]http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=11657.msg113078#msg113078
i think this will work but it is too early to tell yet
[/quote]

Not sure if the bold part is from you or if you quoted someone else but the frames of the 113HN's are machined and not cast.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: AEM on July 27, 2015, 06:10:19 AM
In reading these post about corrosion I wondered if any one has tried 3M Silicon Paste. It is like a Di-electric grease. I have used it for years to prevent corrosion on disk brake calipers and on boat trailer brakes and also to protect electrical connections. It is available at any good auto parts store.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: jonnou on July 27, 2015, 08:35:40 AM
the bold was quoted from another. I am just pushing the gasket idea. this is ,after all what the grease or other products that everyone recommends and uses does. i think with a gasket you can also use product or grease and you have double the protection. Fred uses the oil bottle. I have used an adhesive plastic. I hope my solution works. I will let you all Know. It has been nearly a year
Best regards Jon
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on July 27, 2015, 04:47:10 PM
oil bottles sounds like a cheap and easy fix, but the foot screws on the baja are kind of short, wondering if they still screw enough to be strong and secure.
those antocorrosion pastes and compounds are new to me but they worth a try, the good thing here is that if I try any of them would be on my own reel and I can check it out anytime.

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: jurelometer on July 27, 2015, 05:11:03 PM
Quote from: SoCalAngler on July 27, 2015, 04:21:19 AM


Not sure if the bold part is from you or if you quoted someone else but the frames of the 113HN's are machined and not cast.


That was me.

Cast, cold forged, bar stock can all be machined.  It's fairly common.  Used to be  that cast Al parts were not able to be anodized, but that has changed with advanced casting methods.    All I could find on the Penn web site was "machined", no mention of bar stock, or 6061 T6, etc.  The cynic in me went with the lowest cost possibility.

But you are probably right in the point that I think you are making (bar stock, not cast).  Since these are made in the US at relatively low volume, it is unlikely that the frames are cast, esp.  if they are anodized.  That would  put the reel at a  low price point for such a large frame...

I should have skipped the cast comment, as it was a side point to the post.

Thanks for keeping me honest,

-j.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on July 27, 2015, 05:59:59 PM
Quote from: jurelometer on July 27, 2015, 05:11:03 PM
Quote from: SoCalAngler on July 27, 2015, 04:21:19 AM


Not sure if the bold part is from you or if you quoted someone else but the frames of the 113HN's are machined and not cast.


That was me.

Cast, cold forged, bar stock can all be machined.  It's fairly common.  Used to be  that cast Al parts were not able to be anodized, but that has changed with advanced casting methods.    All I could find on the Penn web site was "machined", no mention of bar stock, or 6061 T6, etc.  The cynic in me went with the lowest cost possibility.

But you are probably right in the point that I think you are making (bar stock, not cast).  Since these are made in the US at relatively low volume, it is unlikely that the frames are cast, esp.  if they are anodized.  That would  put the reel at a  low price point for such a large frame...

I should have skipped the cast comment, as it was a side point to the post.

Thanks for keeping me honest,

-j.


I can verify that the Baja/US Senator frame is machined from extruded stock, not a cast then machined part.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: jonnou on July 28, 2015, 08:06:41 AM
this is why i choose the adhesive coating. it is about 0,2mm thick, the reel i used it on had large areas of stainless touchin anodised aluminium. My thoughts were isolation of dissimilar metals. the anodising will do this but only for a short time.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Dominick on July 28, 2015, 05:46:40 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on July 27, 2015, 05:59:59 PM
I can verify that the Baja/US Senator frame is machined from extruded stock, not a cast then machined part.
John this question is not meant to be argumentative but I am curious how you are able to verify this.  Dominick
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on July 28, 2015, 06:08:03 PM
Quote from: Dominick on July 28, 2015, 05:46:40 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on July 27, 2015, 05:59:59 PM
I can verify that the Baja/US Senator frame is machined from extruded stock, not a cast then machined part.
John this question is not meant to be argumentative but I am curious how you are able to verify this.  Dominick

A very educated guess from holding it in my hands  ;D. You can tell it is an extruded piece of (probably) hollow stock that is then machined by the cuts in the frame. Lee has my reel atm, otherwise I would share some images that make should make that clear, I think :). And the frame and spool material appears to be the identical alloy.

I don't think anyone would have the capability to mold something like this in the extremely small numbers that this reel is produced (it is not a 704Z like million seller back in the day, this reel only sells in the few hundreds :( ). Every Baja ever sold would not cover the cost of molds for the frames in the two additional sizes.

Just like the Torque reels they do have advanced CNC machining capability in Philly to do this sort of work. What I believe Penn did was realize that they had the molds for the side plates etc and a lot of parts already from the discontinued Baja. CNC cutting some wider frames and spools is child play to make the US Senator line and use up all of the older parts, produce more if needed, and have relatively zero design costs.

This however, is why the Baby Baja will probably never get off the ground. Producing molds for the new side plates and re-sizing all of the parts probably cannot be shown to be worth it given the poor sales of the original.

Of course, we can simply ask Penn and they will tell us if any question remains. :)

Just go to: http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/forum/72-penn-fishing/

And post the question. Easy Peasy.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Bryan Young on July 28, 2015, 06:46:02 PM
I'm not sure of the machining.

Penn's Baja was a poor seller considering the awesomeness of the reel.  It was the name that set it's doom from the beginning.

Many buyers though I don't fish in Baja, why would I want this reel.

So they relabeled it, changed the frame color then added a Wide version for Hawaiian Shorecasters and others that like the previous 113HLWs.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on July 28, 2015, 07:21:22 PM
I don't fish in US..
Why would I want a US Senator reel?
J/k



Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: jurelometer on July 29, 2015, 07:04:16 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on July 28, 2015, 06:08:03 PM
Quote from: Dominick on July 28, 2015, 05:46:40 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on July 27, 2015, 05:59:59 PM
I can verify that the Baja/US Senator frame is machined from extruded stock, not a cast then machined part.
John this question is not meant to be argumentative but I am curious how you are able to verify this.  Dominick

A very educated guess from holding it in my hands  ;D. You can tell it is an extruded piece of (probably) hollow stock that is then machined by the cuts in the frame. Lee has my reel atm, otherwise I would share some images that make should make that clear, I think :). And the frame and spool material appears to be the identical alloy.

I don't think anyone would have the capability to mold something like this in the extremely small numbers that this reel is produced (it is not a 704Z like million seller back in the day, this reel only sells in the few hundreds :( ). Every Baja ever sold would not cover the cost of molds for the frames in the two additional sizes.

Just like the Torque reels they do have advanced CNC machining capability in Philly to do this sort of work. What I believe Penn did was realize that they had the molds for the side plates etc and a lot of parts already from the discontinued Baja. CNC cutting some wider frames and spools is child play to make the US Senator line and use up all of the older parts, produce more if needed, and have relatively zero design costs.

This however, is why the Baby Baja will probably never get off the ground. Producing molds for the new side plates and re-sizing all of the parts probably cannot be shown to be worth it given the poor sales of the original.

Of course, we can simply ask Penn and they will tell us if any question remains. :)

Just go to: http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/forum/72-penn-fishing/

And post the question. Easy Peasy.

Looking at the shape of the frame, it must be from tube stock. Very inexpensive and quick to machine.

The spool is machined from forged Al, which I have read can be stronger than cut from solid stock if done correctly.  The direction of the grain in the metal can follow the shape of the part.  An example of what the forging process looks like for making bicycle hubs - which have a kind of similar shape:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6J1TaNnUcRo (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6J1TaNnUcRo)

I would be very surprised if they used anything other than 6061 Al.

John:  Am curious how you can match alloys visually.  Scrap Al stock of unspecified alloy is quite inexpensive, but I have not heard of  a way to tell one from the other just by looking at them.  Right now I just use scrap stock for fixtures and such.

-J
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on July 29, 2015, 08:35:26 PM
Oh I'm sorry! Of course I have limited metallurgy training  :D.

The finish on the frame and spool is identical and I believe they are polished, not anodized so maybe it was a wild guess based on their surface.  :P

Penn uses 6061 rather a lot of course and given their CNC abilities I assumed it was machined not cold forged and they would use the same alloy (6061 T6 is noted for it's strength and corrosion resistance). If I recall (like with the frame) it has some cuts on it that show the machining done to it, but this may be finish work after forging. This led me to believe they were the same alloy made with the same process. I'll ask PENN.

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on July 30, 2015, 03:49:37 PM
From Tony at PENN:

"John,

Question is a little out of my league :), I forwarded it to Peter who runs the Eng. Dept. at the plant. His response :

Spool is hot forged and then machined. Frame is extruded and all made from 6061T6 aluminum.

Tony"


So the same alloys, Frame totally machined from extruded stock, spool forged then machined. :)
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on July 30, 2015, 03:55:45 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on July 30, 2015, 03:49:37 PM
From Tony at PENN:

"John,

Question is a little out of my league :), I forwarded it to Peter who runs the Eng. Dept. at the plant. His response :

Spool is hot forged and then machined. Frame is extruded and all made from 6061T6 aluminum.

Tony"


So the same alloys, Frame totally machined from extruded stock, spool forged then machined. :)

thanks a lot John for taking the time
this makes me feel 3x better on having this my reel now, I wasnt even interested on the kind of alloy used cuz I really liked the reel when I saw it and I want it.. but now with your info it appears that not only looks good and performs good but it also made from high quality materials.

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Dominick on July 30, 2015, 05:44:47 PM
Thanks John.  Dominick
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: SeaDawg on August 20, 2015, 09:03:52 PM
Wow, this thread motivated me to "SERVICE" my Baja 113hn. I am headed down to San Diego to get in on this El Nino~ tuna bite that's going string..........report to follow :)
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: conchydong on August 20, 2015, 11:07:13 PM
Quote from: SeaDawg on August 20, 2015, 09:03:52 PM
Wow, this thread motivated me to "SERVICE" my Baja 113hn. I am headed down to San Diego to get in on this El Nino~ tuna bite that's going string..........report to follow :)


What Happened? Catching Golden Tilefish and Snowy Groupers in Key West wasn't good enough for you? ;)
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: JoePlo on September 06, 2015, 06:12:53 PM
All I need some assistance. Was using my Baja this past week to catch some monster red snapper when it failed pretty hard. While reeling the reel seems to "skip" if the fish pulls on the line. As if the double dogs are letting go briefly and then catching again. When I got home I pulled the reel apart expecting to find the dogs all out of wack but not the case. What I do see is an issue I found months ago. The dogs are deformed a bit where they hold onto the gear. I will take a few pictures and see if some of the reel wizards in here can identify the problem. All gear teeth are intact and nothing seems damaged. Just a bit disappointing that my tank of a reel failed me. The positive of the situation is that I found I really enjoyed using my Saragossa 8k on Tallas Heavy rod for bottom fishing. Seemed to give me a serious difference in sensitivity when using live baits.

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/DSC_1184.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/DSC_1184.jpg.html)

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/DSC_1186.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/DSC_1186.jpg.html)

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/DSC_1188.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/DSC_1188.jpg.html)

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/DSC_1189.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/DSC_1189.jpg.html)

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/DSC_1187.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/DSC_1187.jpg.html)

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/DSC_1195.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/DSC_1195.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on September 06, 2015, 06:45:35 PM
Quote from: steelfish on July 28, 2015, 07:21:22 PM
I don't fish in US..
Why would I want a US Senator reel?
J/k

Good one Alex.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: broschro on September 06, 2015, 09:09:57 PM
there you have it. the baja is not all that they say it is.it might be good for catching fish that are up off the bottom but cant Handel getting big fish up with max drag.my friend that bottom fish for big grouper and snapper have gone trough four or five of them and the old 4/o and 6/0 they have are still ticking.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on September 06, 2015, 09:44:48 PM
Quote from: broschro on September 06, 2015, 09:09:57 PM
there you have it. the baja is not all that they say it is.

It's a minor issue that Penn is working on, so am I.

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on September 06, 2015, 09:57:22 PM
Quote from: broschro on September 06, 2015, 09:09:57 PM
there you have it. the baja is not all that they say it is.it might be good for catching fish that are up off the bottom but cant Handel getting big fish up with max drag.my friend that bottom fish for big grouper and snapper have gone trough four or five of them and the old 4/o and 6/0 they have are still ticking.

I'm sorry but I really don't find this credible. If your friend went through "4 or 5 of them" what did Penn have to say about it? Nothing?

What I see in the post above is one of the ratchets from the last Baja production runs that was stamped from a worn die.

This does not mean that it "can't handle big fish with max drag". It means some late model Bajas may need their ratchets to be replaced. And Penn is the same company that built those old 4/0 and 6/0 so I am pretty sure they know what they are doing. Probably more 4/0 and 6/0 reels have been thrown away with stripped gear sleeves and busted gears than the total number of Baja Specials ever made.

Baja Specials have landed thousands and thousands of fish without trouble. Hundreds of guys use them because their Senators weren't strong enough or were too crude for modern fishing (ie casting).

I can find an example of every single reel ever made on Earth with failures of one kind or another. Every single reel. No one is perfect. That does not mean for a second that they are not made to do the job they are made to do, just that mass produced reels occasionally have defects. We now have documented failures of a grand total of about 4 Bajas....out of the hundreds and hundreds produced.

A little perspective is in order rather than running down one of the very last Made in USA reels. And a little more perspective should inform anyone making categorical claims while knowing nothing of the history of the hundreds of other reels making people very happy.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on September 06, 2015, 10:01:17 PM
Quote from: JoePlo on September 06, 2015, 06:12:53 PM
All I need some assistance. Was using my Baja this past week to catch some monster red snapper when it failed pretty hard. While reeling the reel seems to "skip" if the fish pulls on the line. As if the double dogs are letting go briefly and then catching again. When I got home I pulled the reel apart expecting to find the dogs all out of wack but not the case. What I do see is an issue I found months ago. The dogs are deformed a bit where they hold onto the gear. I will take a few pictures and see if some of the reel wizards in here can identify the problem. All gear teeth are intact and nothing seems damaged. Just a bit disappointing that my tank of a reel failed me. The positive of the situation is that I found I really enjoyed using my Saragossa 8k on Tallas Heavy rod for bottom fishing. Seemed to give me a serious difference in sensitivity when using live baits.

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/DSC_1184.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/DSC_1184.jpg.html)

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/DSC_1186.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/DSC_1186.jpg.html)

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/DSC_1188.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/DSC_1188.jpg.html)

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/DSC_1189.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/DSC_1189.jpg.html)

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/DSC_1187.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/DSC_1187.jpg.html)

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/DSC_1195.jpg) (http://s179.photobucket.com/user/Inspectojo/media/DSC_1195.jpg.html)

Hey Joe,

This should be brought to the attention of PENN by contacting their repair department. They will be all over this and help you out.

You can also post on the PENN fishing forum at stripersonline.com and they will provide you with info as to where to send the reel to get it fixed up better than new.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on September 07, 2015, 12:32:19 AM
Quote from: Keta on September 06, 2015, 09:44:48 PM
Quote from: broschro on September 06, 2015, 09:09:57 PM
there you have it. the baja is not all that they say it is.

It's a minor issue that Penn is working on, so am I.

at this time and according to the last reported failures I think I batch of SS dogs for the Baja will help a lot to avoid this problems.

this seems to be a lot easier for you Lee than develop a new ratched and dog system with stronger springs, etc


Im willing to get at least 4 dogs
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: broschro on September 07, 2015, 01:09:53 AM
He sent them back.now he is having the exact same problem as JoePole
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: JoePlo on September 07, 2015, 02:08:31 AM
This is my second set of dogs. Not SS ones though. About 6 months ago I replaced some washers and also replaced the dogs. Now the reel is skipping no matter what I seem to do. I do not think it is strictly the dogs that are causing the skipping but I cannot figure it out. I never liked how the dogs sit on the springs and in order to get the reel put back together I placed temporary small bits of zip tie to keep the dogs and dog springs in place while I got the screws to hold in the gear/drag assembly. Still puzzled by this one. I know I put my gear through some serious beatings but having this one fail surprised me. 
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on September 07, 2015, 02:11:07 AM
Could you send me the reel to look over and tinker with for around 2 months? 
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: broschro on September 07, 2015, 08:01:02 PM
Lee i will talk  my buddy and see if he will let me send you the one that's acting up like JoePols reel along with that datilPepper sauce. I have you're address.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: JoePlo on September 07, 2015, 08:36:20 PM
I can send mine off. Was just going to give it one more look through and put it together and see if something just was out of alignment. I love this reel it has been my go to for the GoM. Do see some serious issues with the dogs getting malformed. I checked my last set to see if maybe they were in better shape and they were even more messed up.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: broschro on September 07, 2015, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: JoePlo on September 07, 2015, 08:36:20 PM
I can send mine off. Was just going to give it one more look through and put it together and see if something just was out of alignment. I love this reel it has been my go to for the GoM. Do see some serious issues with the dogs getting malformed. I checked my last set to see if maybe they were in better shape and they were even more messed up.
my buddy had four of these everyone of them were broken before a year. The dogs were disintegrated in on all of them.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: JoePlo on September 07, 2015, 09:08:03 PM
Yeah I just tore down and rebuilt and still is skipping. Only thing I can figure is the dogs / dog springs are shot again.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: broschro on September 07, 2015, 10:25:41 PM
I'm  building a few Tanks for him now. i hope some one can do something to help JoePol and my friend out with these desk weights they are used for now.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on September 07, 2015, 10:30:26 PM
Quote from: broschro on September 07, 2015, 10:25:41 PM
I'm  building a few Tanks for him now. i hope some one can do something to help JoePol and my friend out with these desk weights they are used for now.

if they are just desk  weights now I can help them to getting rid of them selling them to me for cheap.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: swill88 on September 08, 2015, 01:58:35 AM
Quote from: steelfish on September 07, 2015, 10:30:26 PM
Quote from: broschro on September 07, 2015, 10:25:41 PM
I'm  building a few Tanks for him now. i hope some one can do something to help JoePol and my friend out with these desk weights they are used for now.

if they are just desk  weights now I can help them to getting rid of them selling them to me for cheap.

X2
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: TomT on September 08, 2015, 03:16:06 AM
Quote from: broschro on Today at 02:25:41 PM
I'm  building a few Tanks for him now. i hope some one can do something to help JoePol and my friend out with these desk weights they are used for now.

if they are just desk  weights now I can help them to getting rid of them selling them to me for cheap.

X2

X3
TomT
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on September 08, 2015, 03:20:32 AM
I've had 2 of these reels apart and feel they are a quality reel with some issues, and far from paper weights.  Penn will fix the problem and I'm working on it.   
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on September 08, 2015, 03:53:04 PM
Quote from: broschro on September 07, 2015, 10:25:41 PM
I'm  building a few Tanks for him now. i hope some one can do something to help JoePol and my friend out with these desk weights they are used for now.



I am quite sure Penn would take care of everyone involved. Even this "friend" of yours.

In a thread with 60K views with almost nothing negative in it (a testimony to the reliability of the Baja design) you are creating drama where there is not much to be found.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: foakes on September 08, 2015, 05:21:25 PM
John is right.

Penn will take care of this issue -- because they are a good company, and want to have the best quality product possible for their consumers.

However, we need to remember, even when the Henze's owned Penn -- these fixes must be carefully planned, and implemented fairly and the right cure the first time. 

Any company as large as Penn or Pure Fishing, needs to do engineering, field testing, failure rate testing, material testing, explore other alternative fixes, get feedback from places like AT and others, and finally get buy-in and approval from upper management.

This is sort of like trying to do a 180 with a Carrier Battle Group -- it takes a little lead time and planning to not have a disaster occur.

Just sit tight, if you are not completely satisfied with your US or Baja -- just shelve it for a few months, use your other reels -- in a few months, Penn will have the right fix -- you can upgrade your reel -- and the world will be back on its axis once again. 

This is a fantastic reel, that offers everything we have advocated for years now -- just a little glitch needs addressing -- then it will be nearly perfect.

And, as always, we have expert folks on this site that can and will design parts to make this great reel even better.

Just my opinions...relax and enjoy the ride.

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Islandgypsy on September 08, 2015, 08:22:18 PM
Well said,as usual,Fred. I have a NIB US 113 N I was planning on using for our deep water Lingcod season that opens Oct. 1st. I'll just shelve it and use other reels until this all plays out.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on September 08, 2015, 09:49:42 PM
Lingcod shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Islandgypsy on September 08, 2015, 10:27:00 PM
Lee, know you've fished a lot of Lings down here. The guy I fish with targets 500 feet and more..I'm now thinking about my two- speed Avet JX with 60# JB. Thoughts? What are you using? This will be my first go fishing Lings that deep.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Islandgypsy on September 08, 2015, 10:31:36 PM
Oops, should have posted this in another/new thread. Mods please move at your discression.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: alantani on September 08, 2015, 10:37:29 PM
posts are allowed to wander a little.  it's not that big of a deal!   ;D
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on September 08, 2015, 10:42:19 PM
Quote from: Islandgypsy on September 08, 2015, 10:27:00 PM
Lee, know you've fished a lot of Lings down here. The guy I fish with targets 500 feet and more..I'm now thinking about my two- speed Avet JX with 60# JB. Thoughts? What are you using? This will be my first go fishing Lings that deep.

That deep a HX gives you a bit of a pad but the JX will work.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Islandgypsy on September 08, 2015, 11:42:03 PM
I'll bring the JX and the HX. Thanks.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: jurelometer on September 09, 2015, 01:46:02 AM
From Joe's photo:

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/Inspectojo/DSC_1195.jpg)

It looks to me like the ratchet is cutting right through the tip of the dogs.    Since the dogs were not mashed on the top, it is not the tilting dog problem.   The dogs are not sliding all the way into the ratchet teeth, or are sliding back out before engaging.   The teeth on the ratchet are small and pointy.  The dog springs look pretty light too.   The worn die problem at the factory mentioned by John would make the ratchet extra pointy- so this lines up. The dogs will be less likely to fully engage once they get notched. The problem will keep getting worse.

I am compelled to state that I am more sympathetic to the folks that are unhappy with the Baja Special.  Even with a cleaner die cut on the ratchet, I'm not a fan of this AR design.  The ratchet teeth are small and pointy, the ratchet sits high above the bridge plate.   The dogs float at the top of the posts, resting on a lightweight spring with practically zero lateral support.  The dog posts are supported on only one side.  My guess is that the design focused a bit too much on minimizing handle backplay and loud dog clicking, and not enough on AR reliability.  Beware of getting what you asked for :)

My thanks to the folks who have broken reels and posted their findings and photos. 

-J
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Alto Mare on September 09, 2015, 02:48:57 AM
I agree! This issue has been going on for some time now, It's a bad design with the dogs and Penn should have a mass recall on those. Eventually all will fail.
I'm not telling them how to run their business, just my opinion.

This is a nice reel and well worth the effort on their part. We all know they know how to fix it, look at the 4/0 meal, that reel has one of the best design with the dogs.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: RowdyW on September 09, 2015, 03:05:10 AM
I was going to buy one of those new USA Senators but after hearing about these problems I'm going to take apart one of my Jvariance reels & finish loading it up with whatever SS parts it doesn't have yet. All it needs yet is BP's double dog plate & SS yoke & 3 Se7vens drags. All together it probably won't cost more then the new USA Senator. I know this reel will not need a recall. ;D   RUDY
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Alto Mare on September 09, 2015, 03:08:50 AM
Quote from: RowdyW on September 09, 2015, 03:05:10 AM
I was going to buy one of those new USA Senators but after hearing about these problems I'm going to take apart one of my Jvariance reels & finish loading it up with whatever SS parts it doesn't have yet. All it needs yet is BP's double dog plate & SS yoke & 3 Se7vens drags. All together it probably won't cost more the the new USA Senator. I know this reel will not need a recall. ;D   RUDY
There is no recall on those Rudy, that was just my opinion.
Sal
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: RowdyW on September 09, 2015, 03:18:17 AM
Not yet anyway. Just a figure of speech.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: JoePlo on September 09, 2015, 01:15:00 PM
Quote from: jurelometer on September 09, 2015, 01:46:02 AM

It looks to me like the ratchet is cutting right through the tip of the dogs.    Since the dogs were not mashed on the top, it is not the tilting dog problem.   The dogs are not sliding all the way into the ratchet teeth, or are sliding back out before engaging.   The teeth on the ratchet are small and pointy.  The dog springs look pretty light too.   The worn die problem at the factory mentioned by John would make the ratchet extra pointy- so this lines up. The dogs will be less likely to fully engage once they get notched. The problem will keep getting worse.

I am compelled to state that I am more sympathetic to the folks that are unhappy with the Baja Special.  Even with a cleaner die cut on the ratchet, I'm not a fan of this AR design.  The ratchet teeth are small and pointy, the ratchet sits high above the bridge plate.   The dogs float at the top of the posts, resting on a lightweight spring with practically zero lateral support.  The dog posts are supported on only one side.  My guess is that the design focused a bit too much on minimizing handle backplay and loud dog clicking, and not enough on AR reliability.  Beware of getting what you asked for :)

My thanks to the folks who have broken reels and posted their findings and photos. 

-J

I think you really summed it all up quite well. After taking this reel apart a few times, I always did a fair bit of cussing when attempting to get the dogs set on top of the springs and then manage to get everything lined up without one of those dog springs slipping off the dogs. Just seems like a poor design feature on an overall great reel.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on September 09, 2015, 01:29:07 PM
As of now I'm thinking it's a spring/spring design issue (weak spring/poor design) made worse by small contact surfaces between the AR dogs and AR ratchet.  I have had the drawings for "improved" dogs and ratchets at the cutter for 5 or 6 weeks but he's swamped.


If anyone wishes to "get rid of" one of these reels I will try to scrape up some $, preferably a "N" and one that has this issue. 
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Alto Mare on September 09, 2015, 06:04:18 PM
Quote from: Keta on September 09, 2015, 01:29:07 PM
As of now I'm thinking it's a spring/spring design issue (weak spring/poor design) made worse by small contact surfaces between the AR dogs and AR ratchet.  I have had the drawings for "improved" dogs and ratchets at the cutter for 5 or 6 weeks but he's swamped.


If anyone wishes to "get rid of" one of these reels I will try to scrape up some $, preferably a "N" and one that has this issue. 
I thought Mr.Tutle sent you one to play with ???
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: JoePlo on September 09, 2015, 06:15:06 PM
I have mine in the mail to Keta for him to fiddle with. Coming all the way from AL so gonna take a sec.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on September 09, 2015, 06:30:42 PM
Quote from: JoePlo on September 09, 2015, 06:15:06 PM
I have mine in the mail to Keta for him to fiddle with. Coming all the way from AL so gonna take a sec.

Joe, unless you don't need the reel for a bit while Keta works on his project send it in to Penn. They are the ones to get it back in service right away and should have a better cut ratchet already.

I had to get mine back for a trip to San Diego.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on September 09, 2015, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on September 09, 2015, 06:30:42 PM

I had to get mine back for a trip to San Diego.

Baja... never leave home without it
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on September 09, 2015, 08:47:30 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 09, 2015, 06:04:18 PMI thought Mr.Tutle sent you one to play with ???

He did but he needed it for a trip, I'd like to have one of my own.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on September 12, 2015, 05:24:41 PM
Quote from: jurelometer on September 09, 2015, 01:46:02 AM


I am compelled to state that I am more sympathetic to the folks that are unhappy with the Baja Special.  Even with a cleaner die cut on the ratchet, I'm not a fan of this AR design.  The ratchet teeth are small and pointy, the ratchet sits high above the bridge plate.   The dogs float at the top of the posts, resting on a lightweight spring with practically zero lateral support.  The dog posts are supported on only one side.  My guess is that the design focused a bit too much on minimizing handle backplay and loud dog clicking, and not enough on AR reliability.  Beware of getting what you asked for :)

My thanks to the folks who have broken reels and posted their findings and photos. 

-J

The reel has been produced for over 15 years.

We know of 4 reels that have documented this problem (and only recently).

"the people not happy with the Baja" represent something like one in a thousand guys actually using the reel.

The number of other reels of any type and from any manufacturer in the world that have failed (at every price point) is higher.

There is nothing wrong with the design. If you used the exact reel as some of those that failed and didn't try to hammer the drag down and pull snags out with brute force you would never have a problem in all likelihood.

There is not one documented failure on a fish. Most reels will break trying to pull snags by brute force (sooner or later).

If the ratchets need to be stamped with a fresh die going forward or something simple like that that is all that is needed. Anyone that has a concern should be working with Penn. If Keta water cut the exact same dogs out of SS plate you would also have a solution for anyone interested in stump pulling.

To be honest, I am kinda tired of the needless drama and over reaction. This sort of thing happens to every single reel in the world. The sky is not falling.  ;)

The vast majority of doom predictors chiming in here have never held one of these reels in their hands. If they had, they would be embarrassed at how good it is.  ;D



Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: broschro on September 12, 2015, 05:45:51 PM
John i know you like this reel and that's fine .My friend got his back from Penn and its doing the same thing after a month or two. and just so you know they have failed on fish Amberjack to be exact.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on September 12, 2015, 05:51:52 PM
Quote from: broschro on September 12, 2015, 05:45:51 PM
John i know you like this reel and that's fine .My friend got his back from Penn and its doing the same thing after a month or two. and just so you know they have failed on fish Amberjack to be exact.

And what did Penn say?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: broschro on September 12, 2015, 05:55:23 PM
they fixed it and sent it back.now he has to send it back again.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on September 12, 2015, 06:00:31 PM
Quote from: broschro on September 12, 2015, 05:55:23 PM
they fixed it and sent it back.now he has to send it back again.

It's a QC issue. Not a design issue after 15 years of actual real world use with no issues. The design has landed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of AJs, YT and Tuna.

If it was a design issue it would have come up....about 14 years ago.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: MarkT on September 12, 2015, 06:14:59 PM
But, but, but I read it on the Internet!
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on September 12, 2015, 07:38:30 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on September 12, 2015, 06:00:31 PM
Quote from: broschro on September 12, 2015, 05:55:23 PM
they fixed it and sent it back.now he has to send it back again.

It's a QC issue. Not a design issue after 15 years of actual real world use with no issues. The design has landed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of AJs, YT and Tuna.

If it was a design issue it would have come up....about 14 years ago.

I agree the warn out die is the problem but it exposed a weakness in the AR system.  Stronger AR springs could be a cure.  I still feel it's a minor problem that shows up when pushing a reel with rounded AR ratchet too hard.   I would not hesitate to buy one.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on September 12, 2015, 07:57:33 PM
Quote from: Keta on September 12, 2015, 07:38:30 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on September 12, 2015, 06:00:31 PM
Quote from: broschro on September 12, 2015, 05:55:23 PM
they fixed it and sent it back.now he has to send it back again.

It's a QC issue. Not a design issue after 15 years of actual real world use with no issues. The design has landed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of AJs, YT and Tuna.

If it was a design issue it would have come up....about 14 years ago.

I agree the warn out die is the problem but it exposed a weakness in the AR system.  Stronger AR springs could be a cure.  I still feel it's a minor problem that shows up when pushing a reel with rounded AR ratchet too hard.   I would not hesitate to buy one.

Yep, we are on the same page here. The design is sound, it simply didn't account for a worn die (or some such production issue) being used 15 years later causing trouble.

I pm'd Steve Carson and he will ask Penn to give us an update on Monday.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on September 12, 2015, 08:05:21 PM
If he wants to have him contact me about it too.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Alto Mare on September 12, 2015, 08:09:12 PM
Stamped parts get rounded on one side from the process, I don't believe the issue is related to a worn die, but you never know :-\.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: johndtuttle on September 12, 2015, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 12, 2015, 08:09:12 PM
Stamped parts get rounded on one side from the process, I don't believe the issue is related to a worn die, but you never know :-\.


As I understand it, Sal, the die gets more and more worn leading to more and more round edges (and a pointier tip), but to be sure this is speculation.

What we know is that "design flaws" do not show up after 15 years of daily use around the world...production flaws however can show up at any time be they springs, dogs or ratchets.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Alto Mare on September 12, 2015, 08:29:11 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on September 12, 2015, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 12, 2015, 08:09:12 PM
Stamped parts get rounded on one side from the process, I don't believe the issue is related to a worn die, but you never know :-\.


As I understand it, Sal, the die gets more and more worn leading to more and more round edges (and a pointier tip), but to be sure this is speculation.

What we know is that "design flaws" do not show up after 15 years of daily use around the world...production flaws however can show up at any time be they springs, dogs or ratchets.
Oh, I thought you guys were talking about the rounded edge being there. Wouldn't it get less rounded as the part wears though?
I've mentioned in the very beginning the ratchet would probably be better cut instead of stamped, that would give nice sharp full teeth.
I'm sure penn will figure this one out, I have no doubts.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on September 12, 2015, 08:37:08 PM
The AR ratchets I have seen show more rounding than one would expect from a new die set.  Punching does tend to round a metal like SS but not that much.  I'd rather see them and the AR dogs investment cast out of 400 series SS rather than cut.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Alto Mare on September 12, 2015, 09:45:10 PM
Quote from: Keta on September 12, 2015, 08:37:08 PM
The AR ratchets I have seen show more rounding than one would expect from a new die set.  Punching does tend to round a metal like SS but not that much.  I'd rather see them and the AR dogs investment cast out of 400 series SS rather than cut.
All custom stamped parts that I've been testing have a rounded edge, the ones that have been cut have none.
Some parts are better with a rounded edge, some are not. The yoke works much better on the clutch assembly, due to its rounded edge,but the ratchet would do much better without and so would the dogs.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Keta on September 12, 2015, 10:25:02 PM
Yup!
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: broschro on September 13, 2015, 12:00:09 AM
Thank you guys for getting to the bottom of this i will let my buddy know.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Penn on September 18, 2015, 03:38:44 PM
Guys,

My name is Tony I work at PENN in the Philadelphia offices.  My title is PENN Product Specialist.  You will see me post frequently on some of the other fishing forums as well in case anyone was wondering.  I reached out to Alan and confirmed if it was OK for us to create an account and post, he approved.
We wanted to let everyone know that we realize this issue is serious and is not going un-noticed, we had multiple people including the PENN Brand Manager, Director of Engineering, Quality, etc. read this thread.  As we speak, we are running anti-reverse bench testing on a US Senator.  We need someone to confirm that the a/r issues that you guys are seeing are happening on the US Senator or only the Baja's?   In May of 2014 prior to the 1st  production build of the US Senators we switched to a brass ratchet that we flatten in a press to provide better engagement.  The older Baja reels used a stainless ratchet.  There was a run of 113HN reels that had a bowed stainless ratchet due to a worn die, it was corrected as soon as possible.
We would like to see an example if anyone has a US Senator with a/r issues.  We will of course replace your reel with a new one. 
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: foakes on September 18, 2015, 04:01:10 PM
First Class company!

Doing what is right!

Thanks, Penn, Tony, and others involved...

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on September 18, 2015, 04:31:07 PM
this shows the customer service class 1 on Penn.

so, Tony, mostly we are talking about the Baja Special, not many guys have the US Senator.
can you say something about your plans to make the whole AR system (rachet, dogs, springs) stronger or more reliable?
we arent against paying for getting updated parts from the Penn Factory.


Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Penn on September 18, 2015, 04:42:28 PM
Steel,

We feel that the current design works as it should with a properly flattened brass ratchet.  The ENG team is taking this issue seriously and if any changes are in the works I will be sure to update everyone here.  

tony
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: JoePlo on September 18, 2015, 05:24:19 PM
I have sent my Baja Special to Lee to have a look at. I know that the reel has chewed through 2 sets of dogs. Really interested to see how this goes. I will ask around to friends with the US Senators if they have had similar issues.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: broschro on September 18, 2015, 05:30:47 PM
Awesome news!
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: RUSTY OLD COLT on September 18, 2015, 05:52:48 PM
   I met Tony on another site about a year ago when I was having a problem with Fathom 25 , if Tonys involved this problem is going to be a thing of the past.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Alto Mare on September 18, 2015, 07:44:54 PM
Welcome to the site Tony, nice to have you here.

Sal
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Tightlines667 on September 18, 2015, 07:57:37 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 18, 2015, 07:44:54 PM
Welcome to the site Tony, nice to have you here.

Sal

X2

It is great to have you here.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Rivverrat on October 04, 2015, 04:40:30 AM
Yes very good news. As I stated in another thread they replaced my brand new Baja with a new US113. Glad to see they are looking at it this seriously. I do not for see this new reel giving me an issue. Hoping to hear back from Tony regarding what the problem was on my Baja whether it was me or what ever. 

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: skneip49 on March 18, 2016, 05:13:20 AM
Six months since the last post on this lengthy thread. I'm amazed and amused that trying to fix a problem related to a function as vital as anti reverse is not resolved. The dogs were junk, too soft. I replaced the ones that had a meltdown in my reel a year and a half ago and sold it! Replaced it with a Penn Fathom 40NLD2.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: triumphrick on April 14, 2016, 06:48:04 PM
Quote from: Penn on September 18, 2015, 03:38:44 PM
Guys,

My name is Tony I work at PENN in the Philadelphia offices.  My title is PENN Product Specialist.  You will see me post frequently on some of the other fishing forums as well in case anyone was wondering.  I reached out to Alan and confirmed if it was OK for us to create an account and post, he approved.
We wanted to let everyone know that we realize this issue is serious and is not going un-noticed, we had multiple people including the PENN Brand Manager, Director of Engineering, Quality, etc. read this thread.  As we speak, we are running anti-reverse bench testing on a US Senator.  We need someone to confirm that the a/r issues that you guys are seeing are happening on the US Senator or only the Baja's?   In May of 2014 prior to the 1st  production build of the US Senators we switched to a brass ratchet that we flatten in a press to provide better engagement.  The older Baja reels used a stainless ratchet.  There was a run of 113HN reels that had a bowed stainless ratchet due to a worn die, it was corrected as soon as possible.
We would like to see an example if anyone has a US Senator with a/r issues.  We will of course replace your reel with a new one. 


I have six  113HN Baja Specials here and four of them need new A/R dogs.

I do about 700 - 800 various reels a year. Maybe a pittance in some folks mind....but it is a pretty substantial business to me. I see every brand here but VanStaal. Plus I wont do baitcasters.

I have to say that the procedure for re-installing the tiny springs and ill-fitting dogs has almost got me to the point that I don't want to see these reels in here again. But I have always welcomed a good challenge, so I look at each service as just that and do my best. To have everything installed and have the drag stack tip slightly and the dog or spring moves is very disconcerting. I have had a reel back together and using some wood, tapped it hard on the side and had the a/r fail.

If your engineers are going to have a good look at the quality of the dogs, also have them chat with some of your service folks so they may enlighten you with some suggestions for a better system. Anything that will retrofit these systems I feel are needed.

Hoping for a response!

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on April 14, 2016, 07:00:51 PM
After using this reel plenty of times I think (IMHO) for now until Penn engineers found a better option, but for the weekly warriors that use the Baja Special we will need new dogs, just two SS dogs that Lee (Keta) can make like the ones he made for the 113h, 112h, 114h reels.

locally few guys thar run fishing charters use the Baja Special as loaner reel for the customers, they have caught nice fishes 3-4 times per week (at least) and the problem (if any) have been only the dogs, they deform too easily compared to the 113h stock bronze dog.

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: TongassFisher on July 05, 2017, 04:39:37 AM
I wanted to chime in with my Penn Baja experience.

I've been using the Baja as my bottom fishing/halibut go to reel going into my 3rd season. I've caught many Halibit up to roughly 140lbs, some quite large skates(bummer), ling, yellow eye, and countless sub species of rockfish that live is SE Alaska. I fish roughly 150-400ft deep running Chinese 80lbs braid. I most often run 20oz of lead to get down quick. My Baja has been exceptional. I've serviced it twice, once by AKfish, and most recently by myself. I've upgraded it with the stainless Cortez double dog bridge and sleeve. It's by far my favorite, most used reel in my line up. I should also add that it's quite corrosion resistant. The first year I owned it I would leave it in the boat because I was going out so often. SE alaska is a rainforest so that reel was wet non stop. When bill (AKfisher) services it, there was a bearing or two that needed replacing but other than that it's been 100%. Ive since started taking much better care of my equipment.

I just like the reel and wanted to share.


Trev
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Rancanfish on August 15, 2017, 05:36:47 PM
Coincidentally, I stumbled on this thread again as I was trying to figure out where a small fiber washer belonged in my Baja I had taken apart and bagged.

I was waiting on the Cortez bridge Tom was machining. It came in a couple of days ago and after spinning it a few thousand times I decided to install it.  ;D

Trev, if I ever make it to Alaska, I agree and my two Cortez Baja's will be with me.

I honestly have to fight the urge to shout to the world about the amazing workmanship / design of Tom's work on this bridge.

If you have a Baja you use and abuse, you have to have this upgrade.

Now to figure out where that stupid little washer goes, and find a new handle lock screw for mine with the stripped threads. (Edit: found screw 32-15 from JDL on the auction site).
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Bill B on August 15, 2017, 09:31:16 PM
Thats funny, I finally got my Coffee Can Special together and have the same one left over  ???....if you figure it out let me know...Bill
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: mikeysm on August 16, 2017, 02:10:22 AM
Try putting it under the star drag.

Mike
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Rancanfish on August 16, 2017, 03:57:49 AM
Actually I think I had it there (under the star) at one point but the drag was starting at 10lbs.

I put the reel back together without thinking about the drag stack arrangement, so it was easy to just leave it out when I realized I had too much drag with it.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: mikeysm on August 16, 2017, 04:25:03 AM
My reel did not have one. I upgraded to a metal star and they said it needed to be ordered also. It also makes the drag tight. But it's bearable and it should break in.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Rancanfish on August 16, 2017, 04:41:30 AM
Well, I just bagged it again so I remember to order up the handle cap screw.

I tried swapping in a 113H screw but it is too short.

When I get it back out I'll play with different combos.

I may get the stars too, but hate to until one breaks.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Bill B on August 17, 2017, 02:57:25 AM
Spooled up my Coffee Can Special last night and discovered a bump every 1/4 turn of the handle and then when pulling drag hear a clicking about every 6 to 8" of line pulled....thinking the pinion is toast....any thoughts?  Would like to fish it next week and not sure it will last.  Bill
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: mikeysm on August 17, 2017, 04:27:15 AM
Scott's has the parts and the deliver very fast.

Mike
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Ruffy on August 17, 2017, 10:59:44 AM
Haha, I agree on Scotts postage! I bought some parts from here in Darwin Australia, they got from USA to Sydney quicker than they got from Sydney to Darwin  ???
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on August 17, 2017, 04:54:49 PM
Quote from: TARFU on August 17, 2017, 02:57:25 AM
.......... and then when pulling drag hear a clicking about every 6 to 8" of line pulled....thinking the pinion is toast....any thoughts?  .

I dont know Bill, but if you hear the sound even when you pull the line it cant be the pinion, I might be wrong but to my understanding the pinion keep steady when you pulling line from the reel witht the drag lever activated, I would look for something rubbing with the spool

another test is to take the pinion out and put the spool and the reel and spin it to look for the sound
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: jurelometer on August 18, 2017, 05:00:00 AM
Quote from: steelfish on August 17, 2017, 04:54:49 PM
Quote from: TARFU on August 17, 2017, 02:57:25 AM
.......... and then when pulling drag hear a clicking about every 6 to 8" of line pulled....thinking the pinion is toast....any thoughts?  .

I don't know Bill, but if you hear the sound even when you pull the line it cant be the pinion, I might be wrong but to my understanding the pinion keep steady when you pulling line from the reel with the drag lever activated, I would look for something rubbing with the spool

another test is to take the pinion out and put the spool and the reel and spin it to look for the sound


The pinion turns when the drag goes out.   The spool turns the pinion, the pinion turns the main.  The dogs/ratchet  keep the gear sleeve from turning backwards. The drag is applied via the friction of the drag washers that are locked to the main gear or the gear sleeve. The main gear turns as the drag slips, allowing the pinion to turn  which allows the spool to turn.  If the problem does not occur in freespool, and occurs when cranking or taking out drag- then it is correct to look at the components involved in both operations.  If you look at the actual gear ratio for the reel in question- you should be able to narrow down further  - e.g. on a 4.3:1 ratio reel- you get a set of bumps that synchronize exactly to to 4.3  turns of the handle- the pinion/ pinion shaft assembly is a good place to look. if it it synchronizes to the handle rotations (e.g exactly 3 bumps per full handle rotation) the main gear /ratchet and related parts is is the place to start.  If it is not clear- it could be both.

The Baja Special has a separate shaft for the pinion- AKA floating pinion-  so if the problem appear to synchronize with the pinion, I would also look at the pinion shaft assembly, and especially the pinion to spool junction which other reports seem to indicate as the second most common point of failure after the dogs/ratchet assembly. 


Just the uniformed opinion of  someone who does not own a Baja Special  :)

-J
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on August 18, 2017, 08:06:12 AM
As I said before, I still have a lot to learn here

Thanks Jeff
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Bill B on August 18, 2017, 04:14:34 PM
Thanks guys....Have a new pinion on order and will start there.  In free spool or with the drag backed all the way out no issues.  Does not fee like the spool is jumping on the pinion, more like something in the interaction between the main and pinion....Will update when the pinion arrives.....Bill\

8/20/17- received the new pinion and all is well.  Clicking stopped on drag run out and bumping stopped during retrieve.  A careful examination of the old pinion shows barely perceptible wear and dings ...also found a spring rolling around the work bench.....looking at the schematics it's not shown, but was able to figure out it goes between the spool stub shaft and the spool, basically putting pressure on the stub shaft and keeping the right side bearing in place....Bill
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Surfwrangler on November 07, 2017, 05:52:08 AM
So I had my AR fail during our mini snapper season here off the SE coast of the US this weekend. Not to worry it wasn't till after we already boated our limit of 1 per person. However upon breaking the reel Down to inspect the innards I could not determine any wear on the dogs or ratchet. There was unfortunately a different issue as the posts molded into the frame that the bridge rests on were broken off the frame. Upon re assembly the reel appears to be working properly but I have some major concerns about its robustness, understandably. Any word on whether the reel will fish without those posts for the bridge to rest on??? I fish a near buttoned down drag with 1/2 spool of #80 spectra. What are yalls thoughts???
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Rancanfish on November 07, 2017, 03:34:43 PM
Did you buy it used?  I'm having a hard time remembering how it assembles, to picture what posts you are referring to. The bridge rests in the sideplate I think.

I guess if someone else can't help, I could take one apart.  But mine have the Cortez Conversions bridge assembly upgrade so I'm not sure if that would help.

Maybe you have a picture?

Reading your post again, and the way you use your Baja, you may consider a Cortez bridge too. The dog posts and ratchet are the weak point on the original.

Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: steelfish on November 07, 2017, 05:03:25 PM
Quote from: Surfwrangler on November 07, 2017, 05:52:08 AM
There was unfortunately a different issue as the posts molded into the frame that the bridge rests on were broken off the frame. Upon re assembly the reel appears to be working properly but I have some major concerns about its robustness, understandably. Any word on whether the reel will fish without those posts for the bridge to rest on??? I fish a near buttoned down drag with 1/2 spool of #80 spectra. What are yalls thoughts???

well, I have a friend that use his Baja the same way that you (I actually using it that way too, 80# braid and almost bottoned down fishing deep reefs), and his reel dont have any of those plastic posts, I talked to him recently trying to get him another sideplate but he told me that his reel is working good, he actually caught a big gulf grouper on it few weeks ago with the reel as is (no plastic posts).

I think you're good but I would get a new side plate to be safe and leave the broken one as spare.
my friend called me to tell me about the fish of the picture and remember me that his reel have no plastic posts, he did it since I told him that it might fail with a big fish if he didnt get a new sideplate.  :P ::) :-\ :-\


Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Rivverrat on November 07, 2017, 05:53:13 PM
What nice beast of a fish !!!  Nice pic... Jeff
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Surfwrangler on November 07, 2017, 11:09:54 PM
Yeah I suppose that the 4 bridge screws are enough and really the primary support against the bridge torquing inside the frame. I just thought it was weird. I am strongly considering the Cortez bridge. I am correct in understanding that Penn is not supporting a fix on this right??? Its several years old and I actually traded a Daiwa saltiest BG leverdrag 30 for it so there is not bill of sale. Thanks for your input guys.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Anglerboi on May 04, 2020, 11:02:41 AM
Hello, hope everyone is doing okay during the quarantine.  I noticed last season that the drag on my baja special when buttoned all the way down would give me at max 10-15lbs.  I haven't opened up the reel yet but I assume I might need too replace the drag washers.  I want to go with carbontex drag washers but unsure of what size or the model name I should purchase.  Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Donnyboat on May 04, 2020, 12:08:09 PM
Hi Bill, getting back to your reel clicking ever 6 to 8 inches,, did you have plenty of drag on it, maybe with very little or nil drag, the main gear & pinion were not fully engaging, hence the clicking. just a thought, good luck, cheers Don.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Rancanfish on May 04, 2020, 02:05:50 PM
Anglerboi, just go to Smoothdrag.com.  The phone number is there too. Dawn will have them.

Donnyboat,  I bet Bill figured it out.  That was 2017.   
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Donnyboat on May 04, 2020, 03:25:24 PM
Aahaa derrrrr, wake up Don, cheers all Don.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Anglerboi on May 04, 2020, 08:36:14 PM
Hello,

Could the loss of drag lbs also be from improper washer stacking and not the drag washers being worn out?
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Rancanfish on May 04, 2020, 11:47:31 PM
Yes, entirely possible.  But will show up as a significant loss of pressure usually.

You know what?, go to the Baja thread, I seem to recall there are options as to how the stack can be assembled.

My search skills are pretty weak.  Google search usually works better.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Anglerboi on May 05, 2020, 12:39:33 AM
Quote from: Rancanfish on May 04, 2020, 11:47:31 PM
Yes, entirely possible.  But will show up as a significant loss of pressure usually.

You know what?, go to the Baja thread, I seem to recall there are options as to how the stack can be assembled.

My search skills are pretty weak.  Google search usually works better.

Thanks! I actually just took the handle off and noticed the 2 metal spacers were not cupped, tightened everything up and drag is a lot closer to the 25LB range! Thanks again.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: conchydong on May 05, 2020, 01:05:21 AM
Sometimes it is the simplest things. I won't tell you how many times I have taken a reel apart over and over to just find a ID-10T error.
Title: Re: 113 hn baja special
Post by: Bill B on May 08, 2020, 09:50:00 PM
Quote from: Rancanfish on May 04, 2020, 02:05:50 PM
Donnyboat,  I bet Bill figured it out.  That was 2017.   

Yeah guys, the pinion was the issue....however a problem surfaced when it was fished, the reel would lock up, a quick 5 minutes in Alan's hands revealed it was missing the the little spool/pinion bearing that is nestled in the spool shaft that the pinion shaft turns on......part number 55-910.....when i bought the reel it was in parts missing the spool, never missed the bearing until i tried to fish it.  Used it extensively on the 11th Annual crab trip with Alan and crew, it performed great.....