Reel Repair by Alan Tani

General Maintenance Tips => General Questions and Trouble Shooting => Topic started by: gstours on November 23, 2015, 12:59:25 AM

Title: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on November 23, 2015, 12:59:25 AM
In an effort to understand the workings of the lever drag I need some numbers and information to some questions I have.
  Firstly I dont have much to compare the different cams with.  And some of you might have a cam you could measure sitting out of a reel or possibly ready to tear a reel down for service or repair.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/004_zpss7jtbik1.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/004_zpss7jtbik1.jpg.html)
  This is what is needed:  the thinnest (free spool) measurement of the ramp in thousandths of inch if possible?
                       and,      the thickest (widest) measure at full drag of the ramp,  also in thousandths if possible.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/003_zps87hkkjhb.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/003_zps87hkkjhb.jpg.html)
   Here are two similar somewhat similar sized reel drag cams that were removed.  One has .014'' difference (normal)  and the other .065''(ramp from problem described reel)...... ..The reason i am trying to work on this winter project is specifically to modify the cam to eliminate the long lever travel of the reel between freespool and engaging gradual normal drag as what seems normal.
     Please include the size if the reel with your volunteered measurements if possible so to compare each cam to and use normal reasoning to make a judgement?

     Another question is;   are the ramps strait line from bottom to top or are some curved as this might change the ramp feeling when adding drag?    I would not desire this but some may.
   I want to reduce the lever freeplay mainly and think id i have less difference in the ramp height this might be a solution as long as I dont lose too much drag at max setting.
    Correct me if i,m wrong in assuming that with lever drag reels loss of freespool starts when the dragplate and washer start to slightly contact.  (assuming that the bearings are not starting to slow the spin by sideplay pressure).  And that the high part of the ramp is spreading the ramp follower.  In my application would lessening the height of the ramp reduce the draglever travel as it seems to travel less.  To me this was demonstrated in the normal working reel with a cam width difference of .014.

This last photo is both cams that I have questions with.  to compare with.
I would like to hear some input on this subject if possible and will solve the problem this winter.  Thanks for viewing!    gst.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/001_zpszf3q4dmd.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/001_zpszf3q4dmd.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on November 24, 2015, 04:16:14 AM
I have added this crude illustration of the side view of the drag cam ramp.  see below.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/003_zpsz1epmct8.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/003_zpsz1epmct8.jpg.html)
  My question is by reducing the height of the ramp at the fullest part would the lower part engage sooner in the arc of the drag lever???
  All things like total drag available disregarded, I think this might work for a modification to reduce drag lever movement before engaging some light drag pressure.
  Any thoughts????
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: UKChris on November 26, 2015, 02:29:46 PM
Remember please that the cam has two ramps at 180o whereas the lever arc is usually 120o. This needs to be factored in. You won't be able to use the whole of the height difference on the ram, and where the cam is fixed within the cam housing will also influence things. Not all are correctly positioned and not all are moveable without some remodelling.

My limited experience is that reconfiguring the Belleville washers is usually sufficient to fix problems of excess lever travel between freespool and first engagement of the drag. Only if that proves impossible would I consider reconfiguring the cam ramp angle.

Having said that, one reel (was it the Shimano Tiagra?) used to be available with two different cams (one was a 'blue marlin special' I think, though what the actual difference between them was I don't know - something to do with the ramp angle certainly) but I have not seen that option advertised for some time.
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: AJ on November 26, 2015, 03:21:06 PM
Avet offers "South Florida and Kodiak cam" for light line applications.  Provides less max drag and a slower ramp-up.  I use one on my SX to fish 12# and it works great.
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: Rancanfish on November 26, 2015, 03:35:37 PM
Wow, I learn something new everyday around here.

AJ, do you just contact Avet,  or are the cams in stores?
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: AJ on November 27, 2015, 02:01:42 PM
http://www.avetreels.net/ACCESSORIES.html
I don't know if any tackle shops carry these.
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: SoCalAngler on November 27, 2015, 06:54:58 PM
Quote from: gstours on November 24, 2015, 04:16:14 AM
I have added this crude illustration of the side view of the drag cam ramp.  see below.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/003_zpsz1epmct8.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/003_zpsz1epmct8.jpg.html)
 My question is by reducing the height of the ramp at the fullest part would the lower part engage sooner in the arc of the drag lever???
 All things like total drag available disregarded, I think this might work for a modification to reduce drag lever movement before engaging some light drag pressure.
 Any thoughts????

My question is by reducing the height of the ramp at the fullest part would the lower part engage sooner in the arc of the drag lever???

IMO, no it would have the opposite effect. By reducing the height of the cam your reducing the drag output.

All things like total drag available disregarded, I think this might work for a modification to reduce drag lever movement before engaging some light drag pressure.
Any thoughts????


The best way to reduce the lever travel is by tightening the preset knob more. This will cause the reels drag to ramp up quicker but will also increase the total drag pressure.

Another way is to play around with belleville/spring washers. You can add thicker washers or change how their set in the reel. If the washers are set say like this ()() you may be able to change them like this(()). This option of changing the belleville washers is kind of a pain because if you use thicker washers or add more you most likely you will need to remove some shim washers if you have some that came stock in the stack. Adversely if you make the stack thinner by going from what I showed above you may need to add shims to get the stack the right height.

If the new stack of washers are not the same thickness as the stock stack you will most likely have freespool issues.
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on November 28, 2015, 06:33:18 PM
Thanks for the feedback on this post.     You all have good info and I am sorting it out.
    I do realize that less height of the cam will lessen the final available values, and adding bellville washers may make up for the total lost.    But I noticed a significant difference in the 2 reel cams total ramp height.  This was a CLUE to the solution??????
  I have rearranged the bellvilles and added them but still have 20-30 degrees of drag lever travel to the lever from freespool to when the drag starts to feel anything. I adjust the drag knob to more at strike untill I start to lose freespool.  Then check the lever travel.....
  I do realize I am treading on dangerous ground for many reasons and am trying to use logic in a way to correct the annoying (problem).     
   Its a design flaw I think.   in a great reel with a lot going for it that doesn,t have a face or name yet.
Its a winter project and I will learn something from it but replacement parts are not obtainable that I can "play" with.

  I wish I had more measurements of cam ramps to compare mine with!      Thanks to all.
 
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: SoCalAngler on November 29, 2015, 03:55:22 AM
A cam for one manufacture to another manufacture should be different, so I can't see how that will help you as far as a measurement. Heck, cam's from the same manufacture will be different in certain models of their reels. A cam for, let's say a Penn Torque LD will be different from a Penn VSX as a Avet SX, MX will be different to a JX, HX or a 30 or 50 sized reels. I just don't see how measuring cam heights for other reels will help you. I may be missing something but would you take cam shaft measurements in a Ford engine and use those in a Chevy and expect the engine to run correctly?

Don't get me wrong I can see your logic in what your trying to do but I think you are going about it in the incorrect way as far as trimming down the cam.
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: SoCalAngler on November 29, 2015, 04:10:26 AM
You may be able to address your issue with a very easy solution.

I see on that cam there is no detents to go from strike to full with the lever so I assume there is a button or something on the reel to move the lever from strike position up towards full is this correct?

Also are you setting your drag pressure at the 1/4 to 1/3 of the lines breaking strength at strike or at full?
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on November 29, 2015, 05:21:55 AM
Thanks for the reply mr socal A; I do appreciate info at any cost. I,m sure you have several (or more) lever drag reels and they all are different.  Different in size, manufacturer, and possibly with some differences in the design of how drag is applied and how the ramps feel as they travel thru the full range of the arc.
   That said I found a reel that I like almost everything about......The complaint is simply there is 20-30+ degrees of drag lever travel from freespool to the first feeling of drag on the spool when the reel is preset to just barely noticeable loss of freespool setting at strike position.......
  I showed pictures of the two cams side by side and the only noticeable difference to me is the difference in height of the problem reel as it is greater.  (the lesser one is a similar sized tiagra ant it works fine)
  I have enough drag at full to spare some at the present factory bellville arrangement of ()()......
    If I lose freespool it doesnt lessen the drag lever arc mentioned earlier I just lose freespool and then the ramp up starts in the same position but with of course more aggression.....
   Any Ideas other  than live with it or go buy a ????reel!



Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: SoCalAngler on November 30, 2015, 12:03:39 AM
Well Sir I set my lever drag reels with about 1/4 or closer to 1/3rd of the lines breaking strength at strike and not full. This way if I need more drag while fighting a fish I can move the lever past strike to get the drag I need. Doing this may get your reel to start to engage the drag quicker where you won't have as much lever movement. Try setting your drags this way at strike before you start playing around with the belleville washers and way before you starting shaving down the the cam.
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on November 30, 2015, 01:34:33 AM
Thanks for the answer again.  I have followed your advise on the preset at 1/4 line strength and have not lost freespool spin at the freespool setting.  When looking at my crude diagram this puts the strike  position somewhere between B and C I,m imagining
.
  The Problem Still Is that there is quite a bit of travel from A to near B where some drag seems to be felt.
On my other leverdrag reels this  moving forward of the drag lever from Free immediately starts turning resistance of the spool  on the medium to high preset drag pressure setting.
  On this problem (Project) reel there is 20-30+ degrees of arc of the lever movement before any normal drag seems to begin.
I am sure there is a solution to this.  I just need to understand whats going on in there by further study and possibly substituting or comparing similar parts.
  Thats why when I started this post I was hoping for some measurements of size 16-20-30 size reels to compare mine with.   currently I only had a 16 tiagra apart.      Thanks for the dialog.   Its all good.   I am learning some thing every day.
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: Tightlines667 on November 30, 2015, 03:08:39 AM
Gary,
You can achieve what you are looking for in terms of early ramp up by modifying the ramp on the cam.  Total height on the cam is not going to change when it engages following freespool, or the ramp up.  Most cams are typically designed to with a slower/more linear build up intially, and a steeper ramp at the end.  This means when the preset I'd adjusted properly, and stock Bellevilles are ysed, moving the lever from free to strike will result in a roughly 50% of max drag, and moving the drag lever the last little bit from strike to full will give you the last ~50%.  If the tail end is too agrees I've and you prefer a more linear, 'tournament' type ramp up.. you can file the tallest parts of the ramp down to a more gradual ramp up, and use thinner Bellevilles in a more springy/soft config.  Shims can be used to maintain proper preset adjust, and proper stack height to get freespool at the recommended max effective strike setting.  Conversely, you can steeper the early ramp up to get a more agrees I've drag curve with regards to lever movement.  You can also flatten the top end, cut a slight notch in the cam for freespool, and steeper the first part to get immediate engagement of drag out of freespool and a steeper in til ramp up, with a more linear tail end.  Usually reels with steeper cams will have heavier, more aggressive Bellevilles as well.  The only problem when modifying cams is to go slow, and make sure both ramps are identical.  Total thickness is not important, as you can shim to make up any lost material.  Also, these cams get costly if you end up with less then desirable results.  2 good cams to compare are the Tiagras 50W vs. the Tiagra 50WLRS.  Another interesting comparison is the first gen. International 130 vs the newer one.  In both cases the first reels have thinner/springier bellevilles, and a more linear initial cam ramp.  The original internationals also have a notch in the bottom of the cam, to positively engage the reel in and out of freespool.

Good luck with your experimentation and keep us posted
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: jaypeegee on November 30, 2015, 07:45:24 PM
Hmm. Struggling to understand it all TBH but wonder (If not wildly off track) if either

a flattened "S" shaped cam would help. Essentially starting as a convex hump to gradually increasing middle area to concave finish
or
Experimenting with the Belleville's by using different strength washers in the stack maintaining the correct stack height so that early drag pressure will be set by the ones with the least amount of strength. Perhaps setting those in parallel then returning to series for the heavier gauged washers.

I looked at the SF cam for my Avet LX a while ago and instead opted for the lighter Belleville's. I played with different combinations for a while but shelved it as the washers I had weren't quite the right strength and getting more in NZ is a PITA. Also, when I called McMasters-Carr I may have gotten on a "list" somewhere. :o
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: Robert Janssen on December 01, 2015, 02:04:48 AM
Like jaypeegee, I too have had trouble understanding what it is you are after. I'm not even sure why I am replying.

QuoteThe complaint is simply there is 20-30+ degrees of drag lever travel from freespool to the first feeling of drag...

It seems to me, like your problem has nothing to do with the rise or curve of the cam, and will not be cured by filing or reshaping it.

Rather, it seems to me, that IF you are referring to the cam in your picture that has giant freespool notches (the other has no freespool notches at all, which is unusual) then the notches are simply far larger than the cam follower it engages with, which would give the slack you describe, even if 20-30 degrees seems a bit much. Not a big deal, just a design / engineering error. It is what it is.

But...
QuoteThe complaint is simply there is 20-30+ degrees of drag lever travel from freespool to the first feeling of drag on the spool when the reel is preset to just barely noticeable loss of freespool setting at strike position.......

Well then, the preset is way, waaay too low.

Unless

there is something prohibiting the cam and the cam follower from remaining engaged all the way into the freespool setting. A spacing error, for example, or missing belleville, or again, a design / engineering error. Or a slack or too short drag spring in the reel; that'll do it too. I noticed the same thing in one of my Ambassadeur 30s just the other day-- someone had inadvertently placed a shim in the wrong spot, resulting in a bit of slack in the usually crisp lever action. No big deal; just rearrange it.

Have another look at it.

.



Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on December 01, 2015, 03:25:08 AM
Thanks again for the good info.  I am digesting it now.  I dont yet know what to do.   Thanks for the feedback.  Its food for me!
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on December 01, 2015, 04:08:49 AM
As several of you have commented on the cams pictured in the first part of the post and we need to find out what is important, I thought I should have mentioned that the cam with the huge notches between the hi and low parts of each side is from a normal operating Tiagra 16 which I could remove the parts to compare with my "problem" cam.
   Also you folks pointed to the fact the problem reel cam has no notch between like the tiagra cam with the notches.
Are the notches necessary ???   What do they do?  I,m thinking if they fit the cam and follower closer to the bearing and follower somehow!   But how?
  I do know the spool definitely jumps away slightly to the right side when the lever comes forward from freespool on the huge notched tiagra what seems to be normal function.
  On the problem reel there is no notch or detent between the low and hi parts on the side of the ramp of the cam.
This must be a clue to solving the problem.  But what function is the notch. Both sides of the parts that fit up next to it are flat.
   There is a pin on each side of the follower that the cam pushes the bearing but these fit in the grooves of the sideplate to keep this follower from turning, so the screw action of the drag knob can push more by spreading itself wider.
   Can anybody explain what the tiagra cam notches are for,  and how they work at the start up of the drag lever?
  Thanks again for your time, experience , and sharing information.
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: Tightlines667 on December 01, 2015, 04:31:36 AM
The notches are not necessary, but will ensure there is a quick and positive transition into and out of freespool.  I believe the earliest Tiagras may not have had the notch in the cam, while subsequent models did, though this is a guess.  The cam assembly designs also differ both in terms of their being a notch in the bottom of the cam, and the design of the cam follower (some have steps that further separate the pin from the lip) on the Penn Internationals as well.  I prefer a gradual more linear cam ramp with the notch, and the stepped cam follower on the larger internationals.  I attached a picture of a few cams I had laying around (a Tiagra 50WLRS, a Tiagra 130, an International 50, and an International 130).  

Not sure if this helps?
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on December 02, 2015, 05:05:49 AM
Thanks mr Titelines for the last words and picture of the various cams that you did show.   I think we are soon to hit the problem on the head.  I bought this reel for a challenge and to see If I could learn some more but never thought I it would be this difficult to troubleshoot the problem or remedy.
   Tomorrow I will tear the sideplate apart and photograph the follower, cam, and a shot into the sideplate to show the grooves the follower slides in and etc.    Thanks for posting your reply.   This is what makes this free forum priceless!!!!!!!    g nite.
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on December 02, 2015, 07:35:04 PM
So the Saga Continues;  After digesting the replys I continued down the rocky path of removing the cam, follower, and pinion bearing that does an important job nesting in the sideplate  bore.  pictures below are my findings.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/021_zpswb8jxq02.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/021_zpswb8jxq02.jpg.html)
and so I pushed slightly on the square machined part of the cam and pushed it down.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/023_zps9nk80yuq.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/023_zps9nk80yuq.jpg.html)
here are the parts in question. as they were assembled.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/025_zpsoxmrsx8d.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/025_zpsoxmrsx8d.jpg.html)
this side view shows the fit, clearance and lack of notch as it was machined and assembled to fish.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/026_zpsrj8geceq.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/026_zpsrj8geceq.jpg.html)
This cardboard diagram shows the draglever positions that I spoke of earlier in my post.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/013_zpsyadodahe.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/013_zpsyadodahe.jpg.html)
This next pic is the reel at freespool position.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/007_zpsmcf5pnxs.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/007_zpsmcf5pnxs.jpg.html)
Next is the position at where there is slight loss of freespool (spool spins 3-5revs reluctantly)
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/006_zpsepvtguor.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/006_zpsepvtguor.jpg.html)
This seems excessive and undesirable to have this much movement where nothing is occurring in change for adding anything to compliment the drag cams ability s...... (my cheap thoughts)
and here is full drag,max and the lever touched the sideplate frame normally.  This functions normally no complaints.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/015_zpsxgepcimn.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/015_zpsxgepcimn.jpg.html)
Here is the two parts in serious question to me........ as you folks mentioned no notch.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/034_zpsylcrrook.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/034_zpsylcrrook.jpg.html)
  I want to learn more of how these lever reels work internally and your comments will be appreciated.
Dont be shy,  Ive been called crazy by waay to many people to stop now!   I do want to re-thank all who have helped by their comments,   Its all good,   and sorry this thing is so long bet its new evidence to prove I couldda bought a new???????? and chucked this little gem.  gst.

Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: Robert Janssen on December 03, 2015, 09:30:02 AM
Seriously, i think there is just a washer missing, or the preset just needs to be adjusted more. Crank the preset way down, see how that works. If not, throw a washer in there among the bellevilles to take up some space and see how that works.

AFTERTHOUGHT:

.
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on December 04, 2015, 12:33:02 AM
Thanks Mr Jn for your advise in questioning the bellvilles and preset......
    Yes I have added spacer washers, rearranged the bellevilles. untill I lost freespool,  yes it increased the drag pressure on spool resistance to turning and made it less easy to move the lever to full.  BUT it did not change the freeplay of the lever described earlier.  NOR did loosing freespool buy cranking down on the preset knob affect the freeplay arc problem......
  I gotta have freespool (poor or +) to fish,   thats for sure!
      I do see where maybe the fullest part of the cam height may be touching the follower when in freespool,   possibly a notch and lesser cam height might be a suggestion????????
    Any thoughts?      thanks!
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on December 04, 2015, 04:25:26 PM
After reviewing this and pondering even further i,m inclined to think firstly that a notch like similar cams may be a start to the remedy.
   This notch could be 1/2 the dia of the pin and possibly allow the two parts to close some if possible....

   Secondly trial and error testing would show if this is helpful......as the parts fit fairly close already , removing some material from the top (fullest part) would allow the lower part of the cam to close the gap. (so to speak)  as the pin may not fit down in the notch much to bring the parts togather..........These are my current thoughts......

  Thirdly the cam seems to have a sharper angle (total height) than others ive viewed and could afford to lose some height to be closer to the pictured tiagras profile.

   Thanks for everyones contributions to this challenge.   gst.
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on December 16, 2015, 01:52:54 AM
More info and changes take place as shown;  weeks later,
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/IMG_3861%202_zpsbokeyo6n.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/IMG_3861%202_zpsbokeyo6n.jpg.html)
Now we see the problem drag cam with a fer changes.  They are a notch for where the pins set when in freespool position.
and a slight amount removed from the 1/2 to full drag setting part of the ramp.  after some trial and refitting. its shown as is.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/IMG_3865_zpszonslpvn.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/IMG_3865_zpszonslpvn.jpg.html)
now we can see how the parts nest together when assembled after altering the ramp and notch to pin fit up.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/IMG_3863%202_zpsixx7ndsi.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/IMG_3863%202_zpsixx7ndsi.jpg.html)
After installing the altered parts into the reel again I was pleasantly surprised to start to see a noticeable change for the better :'(.  the freespool was acceptable after the drag at strike was set with the preset knob, and when the draglever was moved forward there was a typical bump, and moving  forwards now the drag started to slow the spool, and positive pressure began increasing at the lever was moved forward.
    A slight amount of drag was lost at full position as about .014 was removed from the top of the cam ramps.  This seemed to be needed though to net the cam down onto the pins as they now are about half seated on the pins.
    The belleville washers are in the factory configeration and some additional washers are planned to get 28-30 pounds is the plan.
So Everything is waay better now much experimenting, and trying to determiAne what to do seemed a little risky. 
   More testing is planned as soon as the bellevilles arrive so come back here later to learn what I found out. :D
I would like to thank all the people who gave info, and ideas, and advise to help me to ''get lucky'' and make the correct adjustments.
  And kudos to this site for a place to collect our info and share the gifts we posess,    Thanks for all,   gst.
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: Tightlines667 on December 16, 2015, 02:08:14 AM
Gary,
Looking good.  Alternatively you could have order one of the newer style cas (same part #) from Shimano.  Be aware the cam puns are slightly different as well.  Sone have nipples on the end, and others are the more typical rounded type you have pictured.  The nipple ones seem less likely to produce binding issues in the cam pocket grooves, and allow lubricant to work around them.  Though they may cause marring in the pockets more readily (just a guess).  I like what you'be done, and getting the belleville stack arrangement and spacing right, should give you the results you were looking for.  However, I am not sure the overall height of the cam needed to be reduced, this would only be the case if things are too tight with the preset backed all of the way off.  Otherwise the preset should take care of this.  If you don't have enough max with the preset, a pinion shim can he used.  Don't forget the clear (almost invisable) plastic washer under the can assembly when reasembling.  Ask me how I know?  The results are not good :(
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on November 27, 2017, 05:51:29 PM
Its been awhile since this reel problem was solved.   Thanks again to all the contributions and comments.   Its all good.   Basicly the notch in between the cam pcs di have an effect of the drag lever freeplay.  I think the reel is quite normal now as its getting used a lot and is very nice in my opinion.   Heres an example.
https://youtu.be/uMT9ClUx24U
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: Dominick on November 27, 2017, 06:42:20 PM
It looks like I have to come up and give harpoon lessons to Ken.  ::) He can give me bourbon lessons.  :D Sounds like a fair trade.  Good job as usual.  I remember the secret spot.  Dominick
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on November 27, 2017, 07:45:25 PM
   Yes,  Its part of the Fair Trade Act of Kindness, the way I remember it....Yor On.  I,m still training him the some of the Fine Arts!     Butt you fellas are kinda fakin it?   So another Lesson is Needed!!!! ;)
   The post has been kind to me.  I now wish I would have not used photobucket to post the photos as they show up as blanks.   Like many other peoples.   Thats what you get for free,   I,m still learning. :-\
   Ken is a non paid baitboy and likes to sleep on the boat,  as you,ll see.   The china reel is now one of my favorite "little reels" as it goes thru the test periods.
https://youtu.be/4Vyx9gWc3_g
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on November 27, 2017, 08:06:19 PM
   It was a super nice day out on the pond this day.  No wind and a seemingly great time to test my china reel again using the newly modified drag ramp.   Sure was workin good! ;)
https://youtu.be/T7NMNuX6aHw
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: David Hall on November 27, 2017, 09:44:47 PM
I sure enjoy watching you fish.  I am sorry you had to do this one solo though, you could have used at least one extra hand for tying that fish off.
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on November 29, 2017, 12:37:08 AM
   This  is the final take of the drag lever as it was described.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/013_zpsjcytwbqa.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/013_zpsjcytwbqa.jpg.html)
and the cam with the notch as finished and tested.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/IMG_3866_zpsew0iuuzf.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/IMG_3866_zpsew0iuuzf.jpg.html)
this is the factory drag washer.  shiny and hard.   what material is it?    I dunno?    not good.
This is a new carbon fiber washer that replaces the old hard one.   works great....
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/IMG_3939_zpscxyhed1t.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/IMG_3939_zpscxyhed1t.jpg.html)
   the new carbon fiber one is .015'' inch thicker.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/IMG_3938_zpsrritwnbe.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/IMG_3938_zpsrritwnbe.jpg.html)
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/IMG_3927_zpsiwc29wvu.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/IMG_3927_zpsiwc29wvu.jpg.html)
heres how i made the new one.  was quite easy.  clamped the fiber sheet between the wood and drilled thru  slowly.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/IMG_3929_zpse4eix8m2.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/IMG_3929_zpse4eix8m2.jpg.html)
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/IMG_3933_zpsv0ivetwk.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/IMG_3933_zpsv0ivetwk.jpg.html)
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/IMG_3935_zpsq3guzxst.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/IMG_3935_zpsq3guzxst.jpg.html)
the old washer was the pattern for the hole placement.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/IMG_3935_zpsq3guzxst.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/IMG_3935_zpsq3guzxst.jpg.html)
snips cut the rough out and final filing and grinding made it round to fit.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/IMG_3936_zpskoajrzcw.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/IMG_3936_zpskoajrzcw.jpg.html)
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/IMG_3937_zpsqrssckjr.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/IMG_3937_zpsqrssckjr.jpg.html)
   again the finished product works great,  greased and smooth.  waaay better,  with 30# max and fair freespool.  After rearranging the bellevelles and adding one more,  from a penn 16s,  fit fine and just happened to have a couple spares.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/IMG_3937_zpsqrssckjr.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/IMG_3937_zpsqrssckjr.jpg.html)
     I will dig out some more as time permits.   :)
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on November 29, 2017, 12:39:50 AM
   This ws to be the last picture instead of the duplicate other sheet.    sorry.
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/IMG_3939_zpscxyhed1t.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/IMG_3939_zpscxyhed1t.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on December 23, 2017, 06:44:46 PM
   Seems to work much better now, and to my liking.  I,m trying to break it in.  I want to thank everyone that kept me determined and helped steer the boat to better understand  what was eventually a lucky strike, or 2.    Alans Forum is the Best.......
(http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p660/gst6814/IMG_4821_zps0ijcabun.jpg) (http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/gst6814/media/IMG_4821_zps0ijcabun.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on June 13, 2018, 05:38:30 AM
As some of the pictures need reposting,  here is some recent work on my progress with the China 🇨🇳 test reel.  It's a size 16 by most standards.  Hi gear is about 3.6\1 and low gear 2/1 .  I got it as a project reel. 
It's hard for you folks to follow my thread as photo bucket made their sabbatoge on us.👎🤷‍♂️
    Dominick and others.    Below is the most recent test.    Thanks 🙏.
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on June 13, 2018, 05:47:45 AM
 The small reel is not perfect.  butt w the upgrades its pretty good now.  Its another ugly duckling so to speak.   butt its caught several thousand pounds of fish! ;)
https://youtu.be/TRTtFghPI5I
   thanks for watching :)      Thanks to Alan T   for making this site available Too. ;D
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on September 05, 2018, 02:29:11 PM
 This reel is proving to be a good one. ;)  At one point I was ready to trash it, as it came from china, Butt instead this project reel taught me something you would not learn any other way.  That is.   What if.      Sorry about the earlier pictures being blanked out.???? ???
https://youtu.be/WhlHFxq6Ylw
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: gstours on December 22, 2018, 03:57:30 AM
  After a lot of work, and learning to learn,  Its time to fish.  lets see.  what do you think,  about a hundred bucks.  plus . ???
https://youtu.be/AqXc6ZsJiWA
Title: Re: Drag cams and ramps??
Post by: Rivverrat on December 23, 2018, 12:45:04 AM
Gary, I really like that boat & love these videos you post. Also it's great to see you took a reel that some might sneer at & made it work very well for what you do... Jeff