Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Accurate Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: Mr GreenJeans on January 30, 2011, 10:30:45 AM



Title: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: Mr GreenJeans on January 30, 2011, 10:30:45 AM
I have a Bx2-400 and the crank action is just a little bit stiff/sluggish.  My best guess is that I need to clean and re-lubricate the anti-reverse bearings.  The online tutorial at Accurate includes a slide that says:

     "Clean and lubricate the whole sideplate paying special attention to thoroughly lubricating and cleaning the section pointed here". 

"Here" is pretty obviously the anti-reverse bearings. But I don't see anything more on how to actually clean those bearings.  I read in another post that they are removed by Accurate "pressing" them out.  So I can't just pull them out and soak them in solvent.  Do I clean them by spraying solvent in there and then re-lubricate?  Do I re-lubricate with Cal's grease, or something thinner like reel-x?

Any tips would be appreciated.  Thanks.


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: Bryan Young on January 30, 2011, 10:48:00 AM
I'm not sure about cleaning them.  I think there are some plastic, so if cleaning them, I'd probably use WD40 then forced air to clean them out of the excess WD40.  Then use CorrosionX but ReelX would work.  It's a little thinner so you may need to relube twice as much than if you are using CorrosionX...which may not be a big deal.


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: alantani on January 30, 2011, 01:19:58 PM
you've gotta be careful here.  you literally have to work in a paper bag without inhaling the fumes.  there are a couple of things you can do.  go slow, take your time.

there are two anti-reverse roller bearings.  older models rusted quickly because they were installed dry.  later models rusted slowly because they were sprayed down with corrosion x.    if your roller bearings are rough, you can try this and it might even work.  you want to clean out the big particles of rust so that the rollers will lock properly.  first, spray a little carb cleaner into the roller bearings.  then get a TINY little toothbrush and gently brush to loosen the clumped up rust.  spray a little more carb cleaner to get a better view and repeat the process until it looks pretty clean.  now run a rag up into the bearings, pull until it stops, pull and twist the rag clockwise, then counterclockwise and pull the rag out.   it should be covered in rust.  hit it with some more carb cleaner from both sides and let's hope you get the rest.  now GENTLY blow in some compressed air to get rid of the carb cleaner.  spray in a bunch of corrosion x until it is good and soaked.  let the excess drip out and reinstall everything.  

work in a paper bag or work over a large towel.  be aware that some of the rollers may go flying.  if you lose them, damage them, or otherwise just foul them up, you will need a whole new roller bearing and they are not cheap.  they also need to be pressed in with a hydraulic press.  that usually means your reel has to go back to accurate.  


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: Mr GreenJeans on January 30, 2011, 01:30:24 PM
Thanks Alan.  I'll proceed with caution.  Maybe I'll give Accurate a call tomorrow and see if I can talk to a tech about how they recommend cleaning the anti-reverse bearings.


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: Mr GreenJeans on February 01, 2011, 06:41:14 PM
Well, I talked to Accurate today.  More specifically, I talked to Aly.  I know she is not one of the techs, but she sees a lot of reels come across her desk and so should be a reasonably reliable source.  Aly said I should flush the AR bearings liberally with Reel-X.  Then work the Reel-X in by turning the gear shaft and flushing again with more Reel-X.  After the AR bearings are flushed out, she said I should put in a small amount of Cal's grease and work it around.  This would effectively mix the grease with the residual Reel-X to give me a light grease coating.  Button up the reel and I am done.

I asked if I should flush the AR bearings with carb cleaner, and she said no.  I asked if I should finish the AR bearings with a spray of Corrosion-X, and she said no.  Aly said the only grease/lubricants Accurate is using these days are Reel-X and Cal's grease.

I hate it when I get answers that don't agree.  Alan, I would appreciate any advice you could offer on how I should clean the AR bearings.

As another point of information, I should also mention that I take really good care of my reels and I see no signs of rust or corrision in the AR bearings.  It's just that the crank action is a little stiff and I want to get it back up to "like new" standards.  Any advice is appreciated.  Thanks.



Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: alantani on February 01, 2011, 10:50:20 PM
sorry, should have been more specific.  if there is no rust in the AR bearings, then just flood them with corrosion x and call it a day.  if there is rust, they should be replace.  if you want to clean a rusty pair of AR bearings, then you are taking a chance.  use the procedure above.  you would still be better off replacing them.  alan


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: hafnor on March 05, 2011, 05:16:11 PM
Nice thread! about the fumes here? is the wd40 fumes dangerous? I rememberd back in the days I always lubricated my bicycle with wd40, I started feeling really bad with stomach acid up to my throat and leading to me vomoting for a day... That I just was sick, but can this have been the wd40?. Maybe it was cnc, but that is pretty much the same deal...?


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: JC Wileman on January 31, 2012, 08:53:00 PM
OK, exact same reel - BX2-400.  I have the left sideplate (with the crank & gears) separated from the frame and spool.  How do I remove the gears, so that I can add Reel X  to the ARBs/cylinder ?


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: JGB on January 31, 2012, 09:07:56 PM
JC see your advancing and diving into an Accurate.

to remove the main shaft with gears attached:

Remove the shift cover on the handle (2 screws)
Remove the handle nut.
Pull gears and main shaft out from the inside.
Lube the ARB if not corroded.
Reassemble in reverse order.

Basically the same as a Boss Reel.

Jim N.


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: Dominick on January 31, 2012, 09:22:20 PM
Nice thread! about the fumes here? is the wd40 fumes dangerous? I rememberd back in the days I always lubricated my bicycle with wd40, I started feeling really bad with stomach acid up to my throat and leading to me vomoting for a day... That I just was sick, but can this have been the wd40?. Maybe it was cnc, but that is pretty much the same deal...?
Hafnor:  I read something about WD-40 a few years ago.  The oil used is pretty clean and I think it is even ok if you accidently swallowed some.  Go to Snopes.com and check out a list of the things you supposedly can do with WD-40.  I say supposedly because the list is extensive and the folks that make WD-40 said that most of the list was true but that WD-40 could not do some of the things on the list.  Let me see if I can find the link.  Here it is http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/household/wd-40.asp I also heard that it is against the law to spray your fishing lures with it as it is an attractant for fish.  I don't know if it is an attractant or if it is against the law, but the fish attractant did pique my curosity.  Dominick


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: JC Wileman on January 31, 2012, 10:49:55 PM
JC see your advancing and diving into an Accurate.

to remove the main shaft with gears attached:

Remove the shift cover on the handle (2 screws)
Remove the handle nut.
Pull gears and main shaft out from the inside.
Lube the ARB if not corroded.
Reassemble in reverse order.

Basically the same as a Boss Reel.

Jim N.

Thanks, Jim!  My "advancement" stalled an hour ago: the E-clamp flew off when I tried putting it back on.  Then, when I found it, I couldn't really get the spool shaft back in far enough to re-attach it.  I had tried taking off the shift cover, but the shift button seemed to keep the cover on.  I think my reel is going to take a road trip - to Corona!  JC


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: hafnor on February 01, 2012, 03:38:24 PM
Nice thread! about the fumes here? is the wd40 fumes dangerous? I rememberd back in the days I always lubricated my bicycle with wd40, I started feeling really bad with stomach acid up to my throat and leading to me vomoting for a day... That I just was sick, but can this have been the wd40?. Maybe it was cnc, but that is pretty much the same deal...?
Hafnor:  I read something about WD-40 a few years ago.  The oil used is pretty clean and I think it is even ok if you accidently swallowed some.  Go to Snopes.com and check out a list of the things you supposedly can do with WD-40.  I say supposedly because the list is extensive and the folks that make WD-40 said that most of the list was true but that WD-40 could not do some of the things on the list.  Let me see if I can find the link.  Here it is http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/household/wd-40.asp I also heard that it is against the law to spray your fishing lures with it as it is an attractant for fish.  I don't know if it is an attractant or if it is against the law, but the fish attractant did pique my curosity.  Dominick

Will do Dominick. I heard the same thing. Some Norwegian fishermen fished for salmon in alaska and two of the four guys used wd40 on their lures... They caught 90% of the fish!


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: Bryan Young on February 01, 2012, 04:50:32 PM
JC see your advancing and diving into an Accurate.

to remove the main shaft with gears attached:

Remove the shift cover on the handle (2 screws)
Remove the handle nut.
Pull gears and main shaft out from the inside.
Lube the ARB if not corroded.
Reassemble in reverse order.

Basically the same as a Boss Reel.

Jim N.

Thanks, Jim!  My "advancement" stalled an hour ago: the E-clamp flew off when I tried putting it back on.  Then, when I found it, I couldn't really get the spool shaft back in far enough to re-attach it.  I had tried taking off the shift cover, but the shift button seemed to keep the cover on.  I think my reel is going to take a road trip - to Corona!  JC
The e-clip has to be put on when the right side plate removed from the frame. This will allow you to push on the spool shaft, and add the e-clip.  I learned that after taking apart the reel 3 times because I put the spool on backward.  If you have ever serviced Accurates before, you know exactly what I'm talking about.  Good luck.


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: Irish Jigger on February 01, 2012, 05:50:43 PM
Nice thread! about the fumes here? is the wd40 fumes dangerous? I rememberd back in the days I always lubricated my bicycle with wd40, I started feeling really bad with stomach acid up to my throat and leading to me vomoting for a day... That I just was sick, but can this have been the wd40?. Maybe it was cnc, but that is pretty much the same deal...?

Fished with an old guy years ago who suffered badly with arthritic hands. He sprayed them with WD40 every time he went boat fishing. Never complained of pain all day. Can't remember what he died of.
I have used it for over 50 years and found it to be indispensable about the home and workshop.
Always took great care not to inhale the fumes.

















Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: wallacewt on February 01, 2012, 08:17:05 PM
bit like my dad,smokin killed him.they dont muck around at the cremetorium


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: Bryan Young on February 01, 2012, 09:15:03 PM
Chinese ointment contains turpentine, so, anything goes I guess.


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: redsetta on February 01, 2012, 09:16:55 PM
Quote
bit like my dad,smokin killed him.they dont muck around at the cremetorium
Too funny Wallace - you crack me up.  ;)


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: David Hall on November 22, 2014, 10:57:16 PM
What?
The spool can go in backwards?
*#^%++^{^*##
Ah heck!
I guess if you don't take the reel apart and put it back together at least ten times you just don't know the reel well enough.
And I was so efficient I didn't need all the parts to put it back together!
I think I'll sell them on EBay.


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: David Hall on November 22, 2014, 11:05:17 PM
Here's a legitimate question.
I cleaned and lubed my ARB's with cals grease packed it in good too!
Do I now need to go back in and clean it out and re lube with corrosionX?
Kinda did something similar with my tekota, I had it back together and thought I might take the spool tensioner cap off and check it out.  It looked like it had been packed with grease at one time, so I filled it up with cals and screwed it back on.  took it off again to take another look at it and most of the grease had been forced down into the side plate.
Wondering if I am going to cause myself trouble with this too?


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: alantani on November 22, 2014, 11:25:04 PM
grease in the AR bearings can be a problem, so i generally recommend a light oil.  in general AR bearings are finnicky.  they're like a girlfriend that cheats on you. if they fail once, they can never be completely trusted again. 


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: David Hall on November 23, 2014, 12:12:35 AM
 8) open up I'm going back in!


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: al_n_VB757 on January 21, 2015, 09:54:09 AM
grease in the AR bearings can be a problem, so i generally recommend a light oil.  in general AR bearings are finnicky.  they're like a girlfriend that cheats on you. if they fail once, they can never be completely trusted again. 
hahah!!! need to find a better girlfriend!


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: Tiddlerbasher on October 26, 2015, 08:05:17 AM
I now only use IPA (very occasionally acetone) for cleaning bearings. Pop the bearing into a small glass jar - cover with IPA. Place the glass jar in an el cheapo ultrasonic cleaner. Fill the cleaner with hot water (to above the IPA level) - 2-3 mins. Empty jar and refill with IPA - another 2-3 mins - job done. If it's an ARB I generally lube with CorrosionX or TSI321. Some ARBs are fussier than others. If the bearing is already rusty - replace it.


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: Gfish on September 02, 2017, 09:31:06 PM
Finally got tired of a "stiff" cranking feel for my DPX2. Oiling it through the port didn't help that much. So I stripped almost everything off the head-plate, put a cork in the crank/ARB shaft hole, balenced the plate so the hole was vertical and sprayed Inox into it, until the bearing was fully submerged. Lots a bubbles! Drain, repeat, and after twisting a paper towel in there, some ReelX(comes in the box with the reel). Much better.
Gfish


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: johndtuttle on September 03, 2017, 11:26:30 AM
Accurate uses Cal's cut with Corrosion-X last I talked to Ben.


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: sabaman1 on June 25, 2020, 09:34:03 PM
I got a accurate boss fury single speed today from a friend who was in a tangle with another angler and his rod and reel went overboard last saturday. What would be the best way to flush the AR roller bearing? I have some ReelX and also some tsi 321. Could I flush it out with WD40 then apply air to blow out remains? Looks like bearing is pressed in.


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: Gfish on June 26, 2020, 08:06:07 AM
WD-40 is knowen to not age well in reels. It gums-up over time and mixing with saltwater may exacerbate this. Probably works if you really flush all of it out. The Inox I mentioned above "seems" to work without the same issues.
If you can remove the head-plate, handle assembly and gear shaft, plugging one end of the head-plate and pouring-in/soaking with something that cleans and removes water, then flush and add lube, worked for me. Oil is recomended as a lube over grease by those that know more'n me, as I've never had ARB slippage problems.


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: sabaman1 on June 26, 2020, 08:52:36 AM
Gfish, do you think carb cleaner or brake cleaner would work as as flush?


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: Gfish on June 26, 2020, 09:03:27 AM
Others would probably know better'n me, but if the ARB has plastic springs that push on the rollers, that stuff could ruin them. Don't recall what mine had when I flushed it 3yrs. ago. Inox is expensive stuff but works great. Really, I'd only use carb. n' brake cleaner on all-metal parts.


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: sabaman1 on June 26, 2020, 09:24:04 AM
Gfish, thanks for the advice I will try to flush with some ReelX a couple times and use compressed air the blow out residue. Then reapply some TSI 321.


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: Gfish on June 26, 2020, 10:45:20 AM
Cool. Like to see how it turns out.

Don't like ARB's cause of the maintenance issues. Have thought about removing the DPX2's ARB and replacing with a nylon bushing. The main feature of this Accurate is; 3 dogs as a back-up system for the ARB("Dawg Pound"). I'll take a bit of back-play if I don't godda deal with ARB problems.

 Just bought a Diawa BG 8000, with an ARB and a back-up dog in the gear box. One of the MANY reasons I bought it, was the ARB in this'n does have metal springs. Disadvantage: corrosion. Advantage: spring action should last much longer than the plastic type. Weak springs can cause slippage. Some say slipping has to do with grease on the ARB rollers, maybe both weakness and grease together are the problem...?
Am selling the 8000 slightly below cost, cause it's too heavy, in favor of a 5000 size, sos I can cast for a few hours without arm fatigue. Always best to hold a product in your hands before you buy. The 5000 Diawa is the same size as a Shimano Stratic 8000 (which is what I'm replacing) and it fooled me.

Above ARB info. based mostly on Allen Hawk reel review.


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: jurelometer on June 26, 2020, 02:59:29 PM
Cool. Like to see how it turns out.

Don't like ARB's cause of the maintenance issues. Have thought about removing the DPX2's ARB and replacing with a nylon bushing. The main feature of this Accurate is; 3 dogs as a back-up system for the ARB("Dawg Pound"). I'll take a bit of back-play if I don't godda deal with ARB problems.

 Just bought a Diawa BG 8000, with an ARB and a back-up dog in the gear box. One of the MANY reasons I bought it, was the ARB in this'n does have metal springs. Disadvantage: corrosion. Advantage: spring action should last much longer than the plastic type. Weak springs can cause slippage. Some say slipping has to do with grease on the ARB rollers, maybe both weakness and grease together are the problem...?
Am selling the 8000 slightly below cost, cause it's too heavy, in favor of a 5000 size, sos I can cast for a few hours without arm fatigue. Always best to hold a product in your hands before you buy. The 5000 Diawa is the same size as a Shimano Stratic 8000 (which is what I'm replacing) and it fooled me.

Above ARB info. based mostly on Allen Hawk reel review.

I read up a bit on one-way bearings, after getting sick of the failures.  Here is what I found:

These gizmos work by jamming the rollers between the shaft and the one-per-roller ramps on the outer "race".  I think that most reels use  roller clutches (they are not technically bearings since they are not designed to bear load)with springs that push the rollers toward the  open position, but I could be wrong.  In order for the clutch to grab, there has to be some freeplay in the system, so that one of the rollers catches a little between the shaft and the ramp on the outer "race".   This causes the race to shift a little, so now another roller starts to catch, and so on.  If everything is nice and clean and unimpeded, all the rollers catch and ride all the way up the ramps, getting a nice solid jam. The rollers jam the shaft to the outer race, and the outer race/housing has flat sides or some other feature to prevent it from spinning in the housing/sideplate.

  If the clutch does slip, you are getting metal on metal scraping, and the clutch is going to lose jamming strength, screwing up the part.

Anything that impedes the races or rollers (all of which must  move around easily) will interfere with the functioning of roller clutches.  Also, in order to make the rollers and races hard, a heat treatable metal is used.  440c stainless is the usual choice (same as ball bearings).  A fine stainless for freshwater, but the higher carbon content required for heat treating means that 440c is much less saltwater resistant than something like 316.

So if you do not lubricate at all, the clutch will work the most reliably with the greatest stopping power UNTIL saltwater starts corroding it.   Use a grease, and you will minimize corrosion, but the clutch will not jam/unjam as well (if at all).  Using a thin film lubricant (like Boeshield) will protect without impeding free motion, but  it will decrease the coefficient of friction, meaning the clutch will slip at a lighter load.  And these thin film lubricants are not going to last too long with the rollers rubbing against the races hard while jamming.   Oils gets you somewhere in between.

I will defer to the experts here that repair a lot of reels on where the tradeoff should be in terms of what (if any) lubricant to use.   In general, less and thin is better, but  it will mean more frequent maintanence.

I am not a believer in these roller clutches in saltwater reels.  

If you decide to replace the clutch with a nylon bushing, make sure that the fit is not too tight.  Nylon can absorb quite a bit of water and will swell.  The original fit had to be sort of loose anyways in order for the roller clutch to function.


-J


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: jurelometer on June 26, 2020, 03:03:57 PM
Getting back to cleaning one of the gizmos. The top solvent for salt is fresh water. Warm and moving, if possible.  As long as the water can get to where the salt is and stay in contact with the rest of the water,  it will dilute the salt quickly.  Trapped salt  in tight spots can be a bit more tricky to get good water exposure to. 

I never understood why folks here are afraid to get stainless wet, but will load up their dishwasher with 300 series stainless silverware and pots and pans  ???

Note that you are trying to get rid of chlorides, so don't soak reels in a swimming pool,or other highly chlorinated environment.


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: Gfish on June 26, 2020, 06:16:46 PM
Thanks J. Excellent and detailed explanation! What about vinegar?


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: jurelometer on June 27, 2020, 11:57:51 AM
Thanks J. Excellent and detailed explanation! What about vinegar?
Vinegar is usually 95% water, so it should probably work.  But might as well use plain water.  The water is what does the work for dissolving and diluting the salt.

The acetic acid in vinegar can be used to  remove some oxides (including corrosion) off of some metals, but I don't know which.  It will also break down the lubricants.

-J


Title: Re: Cleaning Accurate Anti-reverse bearings
Post by: sabaman1 on June 29, 2020, 02:27:30 PM
Thanks for all the advice, I ended up spraying some CRC carburetor cleaner through the AR bearings since they looked to be all metal. Then lightly hit them with compressed air, I did this twice then with a dry rag I ran it through the inside of bearings where driveshaft is inserted and spun rag counterclockwise as Alan recommended to dry out what remaining fluid might be left then oiled each bearing generously with ReelX CorrosionX oil and everything seems to work just fine and smooth.