Reel Repair by Alan Tani

I have been putting off getting one of these for a while. For a $100 Bill. I think its a good investment. Tony Hawk gave it a great review and I see why. This reel feels solid. That is a 650 ss next to it .

---

Nice, let us know how you like it.  Is your thought to use it like you use your 9500ss?  Are they a similar size?  It looks quite a bit larger than the 650ss.

I will compare it to a 9500 Dan, but this reel puts out 45lb of drag.
I think I'll still use my 9500 for surf casting, but I would like to Kayak this one out to see what it can do.
That is a ridiculous amount of drag for a $100 spinner.
I gave more than that for any of my 9500's.
Not knocking them. I bought another one yesterday. ;D
Here is a Video of Josh Jorgenson and his buddy's catching Blacktips using this same reel.
I don't know this guy. My son sent me this. He has a pretty big following. Just not by me.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gJyD63dmbws

These are solid, good value reels.

Personally, I know there are a few finish issues on these, and maybe the handles could be a little stronger -- but overall, I have less issues with these at a little over $100 -- then I do with putting a $1300 Stella on the South end of a fishing stick.

Only thing to recommend would be a good, and complete fishing Pre-Service in strategic areas to give it more protection, performance, and longevity.

Like Alan Tani, Alan Hawk (at least to me) is not right all of the time for my particular fishing applications.

But, likely right on around 95% of their reviews -- and that is closer than I could come.

Best,

Fred

Careful with the heavy drag. There have been numerous reports of snapped stems.

The handle has to be cranked without any outward pull or "snap".

Bail wires may need to be tacked in with epoxy.

Still remarkably capable for ~$100.  ;)


best

ive been researching/deciding on either one of these, or a Cabo. Price is just right lol

The Cabo PTSE 100 is 2x+ more than the LT100...but is it 2x the reel? Probably not, but the Cabo does have some nice refinements.

If I had the $$$ just burning in my pocket, yeah, I'd go with the Cabo instead of my two LT100's...

Interesting video Daron - I follow the BlackTip guys on FB, some of them are pretty hardcore sharkers.  Thanks for sharing that.

Curious to see the hurtin' you put on that reel!  Whats your plan for spooling?

Still kicking that one around Dan.
Probably 80 lb Braid for backing.

This is a size comparison with 9500SS

I would definitely go with the Cabo's over these reels. They are more "refined". I've had them all and stuck with the Cabo PTSE80. This is if money wasn't the biggest concern.

The Fin Nor is a beast. Big and heavy..

Quote from: basto on February 26, 2016, 12:18:32 AM
This is a size comparison with 9500SS

I'll bet if you start fresh with both reels being in new condition, after 30+ years only one of them will look the same :)

Sal

I wouldn't hesitate to fish either reel.

The pinion gear on the LT-100 is supported at either end, versus only at the top on the Penn--making for less wear on the pinion bearing.

Bet if you kept the drag on the Lethal in line with the stock Penn, i.e. 20 lbs. and under, it would have a fighting chance at lasting as long.

Chad

So it is quite big, agreed fish it 25 lbs and under it should last forever!  Biggest spinner I've ever seen though is the SSV 10500, makes the 9500ss look like a child's play toy.

That 100  is a nice reel for the money.
I agree with you Chad about the pinion being supported from both ends, I also like the shaft going through the body, as the 9500, but it shares the same problem.
The inner side of the pinion will eventually wear a little...it doesn't take much to make the spool wobble a bit. It doesn't happen quick though.
A stainless steel shaft should glide on a stainless steel pinion that would cure the problem...just my opinion.

Sal

I just checked the schematic and the pinion is stainless steel, very nice...scratch my comment above.
Nice package, if the parts availability would last for a while, this would be a great investment.

Sal, good point about the mainshaft wearing down the interior of the pinion gear over time.

I serviced a few 850's with that problem and it was difficult hunting down a new pinion; Had to wait quite a while for one to show up on the big auction site.

That's the only thing about Penn SS--They are proven tanks, but replacement parts aren't as readily available unless you had the foresight to create a stockpile while they were still in production..;)

If you were to do that for the LT-100 today, a new set of gears and handle would cost you about $35 plus shipping.

Throw in a few other parts and you should be good for a long time:

http://www.tackleservice.com/Consumer/Product_detail_m.aspx?ProductID=5420

Chad

Very interesting Chad, I might grab one of these reels and a couple of parts for spare.
With that said above about the pinion, as you probably already know, I still love my SS spinners very much ;)

My last order with them I added 6 of their roller clutch bearings at less than 4 bucks a piece.

They are the same ones used in the Shimano Calcutta 7000 reels, Penn Torque reels, and many, many others. It's the tall AR bearing with the blue colored roller retainer inside.

Smart, Keith...

Best,

Fred

Keith, besides the weight, what do you think of these reels. I'm not sure of the shell but the inner parts look very good to me.
It's heavy, probably because the inner parts are well made. A little extra weight won't bothered me,  I rather have it this way.

Quote from: Alto Mare on February 28, 2016, 01:44:38 AM
Keith, besides the weight, what do you think of these reels. I'm not sure of the shell but the inner parts look very good to me.
It's heavy, probably because the inner parts are well made. A little extra weight won't bothered me,  I rather have it this way.

FWIW....the internals are definitely solid. The main gear teeth are not finished as nice as they could be and that makes it noisy, but that is no knock on its strength. Have not heard one complaint of anything inside the reel.

The troubles are the line lay (fundamentally the main shaft is too long leading to bottom heavy line lay) which make braid digging in under high drag a possibility), some main stems have been breaking under high drag and the handles breaking when people crank too hard with them.

A few bail wires have come loose and one bail arm dropped off (poor assembly issues that happen to nearly every reel) but seems to be rare.

For the money and fished modestly still hard to beat.

Not a true big game reel however by all evidence on truly big fish.

Was looking at those for a while but found it to heavy, wish the LT 80 was built the same

Marc..

Quote from: johndtuttle on February 29, 2016, 06:50:24 PM

Quote from: Alto Mare on February 28, 2016, 01:44:38 AM
Keith, besides the weight, what do you think of these reels. I'm not sure of the shell but the inner parts look very good to me.
It's heavy, probably because the inner parts are well made. A little extra weight won't bothered me,  I rather have it this way.

FWIW....the internals are definitely solid. The main gear teeth are not finished as nice as they could be and that makes it noisy, but that is no knock on its strength. Have not heard one complaint of anything inside the reel.

The troubles are the line lay (fundamentally the main shaft is too long leading to bottom heavy line lay) which make braid digging in under high drag a possibility), some main stems have been breaking under high drag and the handles breaking when people crank too hard with them.

A few bail wires have come loose and one bail arm dropped off (poor assembly issues that happen to nearly every reel) but seems to be rare.

For the money and fished modestly still hard to beat.

Not a true big game reel however by all evidence on truly big fish.

Thanks John! I always appreciate your input.

Sal

Quote from: Alto Mare on February 28, 2016, 01:44:38 AM
Keith, besides the weight, what do you think of these reels. I'm not sure of the shell but the inner parts look very good to me.
It's heavy, probably because the inner parts are well made. A little extra weight won't bothered me,  I rather have it this way.

Besides the size and weight they are a beast. I've replaced 4 handles in the last 12 months but the parts are cheap. When you can get bearings from them for 3 bucks and handles for around $13.00 parts don't seem to be a costly issue. If you ever need them. I've seen no corrosion problems inside or out.

http://www.tackleservice.com/Consumer/Product_detail_m.aspx?ProductID=5420

Quote from: handi2 on March 01, 2016, 03:39:48 PM

Quote from: Alto Mare on February 28, 2016, 01:44:38 AM
Keith, besides the weight, what do you think of these reels. I'm not sure of the shell but the inner parts look very good to me.
It's heavy, probably because the inner parts are well made. A little extra weight won't bothered me,  I rather have it this way.

Besides the size and weight they are a beast. I've replaced 4 handles in the last 12 months but the parts are cheap. When you can get bearings from them for 3 bucks and handles for around $13.00 parts don't seem to be a costly issue. If you ever need them. I've seen no corrosion problems inside or out.

http://www.tackleservice.com/Consumer/Product_detail_m.aspx?ProductID=5420

Plus, Fin-Nor is a company that will install better handles, make stronger frame stand stems, etc. -- just need to make them aware of the issues -- and they will likely improve the product -- moving forward.

It is our responsibility, as repair guys -- to let them know the issues during real world fishing experiences.

Good company, good value products overall, responsive.

Best,

Fred

Quote from: Alto Mare on February 26, 2016, 12:44:16 AM

Quote from: basto on February 26, 2016, 12:18:32 AM
This is a size comparison with 9500SS

I'll bet if you start fresh with both reels being in new condition, after 30+ years only one of them will look the same :)

Sal

will any spinning reel that is regularly fished ever last that long? Even multipliers? I have seen reels literally beyond repair from wear and tear, not lack of maintenance, frame and spool gaps for example widening up so much from sand and salt grinding away at them, handle shafts totally worn out and drive shafts simply eating away at the frame over time. Then at that stage main and pinion gear have also been replaced. It just makes no economic sense at some point to repair it?

Quote from: CapeFish on March 03, 2016, 07:27:05 AM


will any spinning reel that is regularly fished ever last that long? Even multipliers? I have seen reels literally beyond repair from wear and tear, not lack of maintenance, frame and spool gaps for example widening up so much from sand and salt grinding away at them, handle shafts totally worn out and drive shafts simply eating away at the frame over time. Then at that stage main and pinion gear have also been replaced. It just makes no economic sense at some point to repair it?

Of course they will, IF they were properly cared for and if parts were available

IMO
Marc..

I honestly doubt it, maybe if they are fished once a month, even then, but a few times a week in a salty, sandy environment?

Quote from: CapeFish on March 04, 2016, 08:18:21 AM
I honestly doubt it, maybe if they are fished once a month, even then, but a few times a week in a salty, sandy environment?

Of course if you dunk your equipment at the beach and do nothing about it, it wont last very long but with proper maintenance it will last a life time, like anything else. 
Marc..

I agree, but some reels could take more abuse than others.
I have brought back some Penn that were in really bad shape. Being able to do the same to others, I would say they're great reels as well... and there are many out there.
This reel above appears to be a good one, the problem would be with parts availability.
Yes, there are a bunch of parts available now, but will they be available for the next 20-30 years from now? I'm going to guess no.

I'm not comparing Penn to other manufacturers, I just wish they would follow and do the same.
After 80+ years in production, I'm still able to find parts for my reels.

Another point I want to mention, Penn has reintroduced some great spinners from the past, looks like they're not just going for 100 years for parts availability, it appears they're going  for way beyond that. Of course we won't be here to find out, but 5 or 10 generations from now probably will. ;D

Penn has gained lots of respect from me within the past few years with doing so.
I read this as customer satisfaction and not greed.

Don't shoot the messenger, this is just my opinion.

Sal

You are right, Sal --

But like you basically said -- Penn is the exception to the rule here.

I cannot think of another reel manufacturer, still in business -- that has the quality, reputation, attention to what anglers want and need, parts availability, and plain old solid durability after 30 to 70 years.

It is a model that likely will not be repeated -- in this day and age of built-in obselesence, non parts availability after a few years, changing of the products offered the public -- just to keep up with the latest trends, etc.

Having said that, for me, there would be little choice between a $1300 Stella, and a $100+ LT100.

This choice would make sense to me, if a Penn was not comparable and available.  But there are some very good Penn spinners out there -- that will do the job just fine.

We are in the middle of a corporate shift that will not likely swing back towards the consumer.

Penn offers excellent customer service, and parts availability. 

Fin-Nor may be up to this level someday -- but Penn has a 80 year headstart on them.

I will be seeing Tony and the guys at Fred Hall today.

Best,

Fred

Quote from: Alto Mare on March 04, 2016, 12:25:30 PM
I agree, but some reels could take more abuse than others.
I have brought back some Penn that were in really bad shape. Being able to do the same to others, I would say they're great reels as well... and there are many out there.
This reel above appears to be a good one, the problem would be with parts availability.
Yes, there are a bunch of parts available now, but will they be available for the next 20-30 years from now? I'm going to guess no.

I'm not comparing Penn to other manufacturers, I just wish they would follow and do the same.
After 80+ years in production, I'm still able to find parts for my reels.

Another point I want to mention, Penn has reintroduced some great spinners from the past, looks like they're not just going for 100 years for parts availability, it appears they're going  for way beyond that. Of course we won't be here to find out, but 5 or 10 generations from now probably will. ;D

Penn has gained lots of respect from me within the past few years with doing so.
I read this as customer satisfaction and not greed.

Don't shoot the messenger, this is just my opinion.

Sal

I think there is some mis-communication/poor communication from my side. Let me try again, even if you maintain a reel well, it is going to wear out over time, the more fish you catch with it the quicker this will happen. It is all fair and well that you can replace every single part on the reel, but that in itself says nothing about the longevity of the reel, it says something about the service the manufacturer offers. It's exactly like a car, one that is in daily use get's to a stage where it is no longer financially viable to maintain it, no matter if you can still get spares. Especially with hard working vehicles. When the chassis cracks, the rings have worn and the gears start jumping, is it not time to move on? If it is a magnificent vintage vehicle, with collectors or sentimental value, then sure, it is another story, keep it going indefinitely. The same with a reel? Or am I missing something? Is a reel used by a guide fished 200-250 days a year going to last 30 years? Is it worth such a guide continuously replacing nearly every part of the reel on an ongoing basis or does he retire a reel after a while and buy a new one? If I see what spares cost, let alone after market pimping, it seems, for the working angler, to make more sense to buy a new reel after a few years?

Why did Penn stop making parts for 750ss and 850SS? No much available any more.

Quote from: CapeFish on March 07, 2016, 01:35:15 PM

Quote from: Alto Mare on March 04, 2016, 12:25:30 PM
I agree, but some reels could take more abuse than others.
I have brought back some Penn that were in really bad shape. Being able to do the same to others, I would say they're great reels as well... and there are many out there.
This reel above appears to be a good one, the problem would be with parts availability.
Yes, there are a bunch of parts available now, but will they be available for the next 20-30 years from now? I'm going to guess no.

I'm not comparing Penn to other manufacturers, I just wish they would follow and do the same.
After 80+ years in production, I'm still able to find parts for my reels.

Another point I want to mention, Penn has reintroduced some great spinners from the past, looks like they're not just going for 100 years for parts availability, it appears they're going  for way beyond that. Of course we won't be here to find out, but 5 or 10 generations from now probably will. ;D

Penn has gained lots of respect from me within the past few years with doing so.
I read this as customer satisfaction and not greed.

Don't shoot the messenger, this is just my opinion.

Sal

I think there is some mis-communication/poor communication from my side. Let me try again, even if you maintain a reel well, it is going to wear out over time, the more fish you catch with it the quicker this will happen. It is all fair and well that you can replace every single part on the reel, but that in itself says nothing about the longevity of the reel, it says something about the service the manufacturer offers. It's exactly like a car, one that is in daily use get's to a stage where it is no longer financially viable to maintain it, no matter if you can still get spares. Especially with hard working vehicles. When the chassis cracks, the rings have worn and the gears start jumping, is it not time to move on? If it is a magnificent vintage vehicle, with collectors or sentimental value, then sure, it is another story, keep it going indefinitely. The same with a reel? Or am I missing something? Is a reel used by a guide fished 200-250 days a year going to last 30 years? Is it worth such a guide continuously replacing nearly every part of the reel on an ongoing basis or does he retire a reel after a while and buy a new one? If I see what spares cost, let alone after market pimping, it seems, for the working angler, to make more sense to buy a new reel after a few years?

You are missing something :).

Older designs like the Penn 704Z had very modest drags and an overbuilt gear train along with the simplest of anti-reverse types (spring loaded dog) etc and that made the reels extraordinarily durable. Literally 40 years of continual use in season and they remain fish-able with minimal upkeep. No new design today can compare.

Parts are also very cheap and complete reels can still he had in the $40-60 range, maybe put $10 in parts in them and they are good for another 30 years...at 6lbs of drag and fishing 20-30# mono.

Brand new from the factory they are $200 reels and Made in USA. Still a great value for something that will average out to $10 a year for 20 years...but they now have limited application as they are big and heavy and not "refined" for modern tastes.

So, reels are still made that will last forever, but performance comes at a price and modern reels arguably perform better at casting lures all day (lighter, etc)...if that is the criteria rather than the key criteria being durability.

Matched it up to a Penn Mariner standup spinning rod. 7' 20 to 40 with an aluminum gimbal and pac bay reel seat.
Just need to do a pre service before I spool it.

---

had some LTs for service and replaced the canvas drag washers with cf.

Nice combo, Daron --

Good pairing.

Best,

Fred

Quote from: Wolli on March 11, 2016, 08:23:02 PM
had some LTs for service and replaced the canvas drag washers with cf.

No canvas in the LT 100,
Seven stack of cf's lightly greased.

---

Improvement, but interesting to read.
In Oct.2014 serviced a 60, 80 and 100 and all had canvas washers.

This is a $100 spinner,
I normally don't mess with reels made in China, but this reel has a calling as shown in the video earlier in this post.
I did a complete teardown to see what was inside.
It was greased really well, I just don't know what. Its kind of yellow looking.

Lots of meat and potatoes inside. I am over this yellow grease.
If you take a good look, you can see how the anti reverse dog is set up. It has an arb in the pinion assy, but there is a spring sticking up on the main that catches the dog when this fails. Pretty ingenious for a reel of this low price.

I can't help it, penn blue is my go to.

I'm going to wear this reel out. My first impression has already made me buy another.
I've had an anonymous member send me a picture of the reel stand snapping off at 15 lbs of drag.
We will see. It is a China made reel, and I chock it up to a bad casting. It is less than $13 to replace.

Nice, thanks for the break down.  My Fin Nor Ahabs had that same grease, it was pretty nasty and cracked when I rebuilt some if them. I'm with you Cals for drag, Penn blue basically everywhere else.  Looking forward to seeing some fishy photos with this set-up.

Quote from: Shark Hunter on March 12, 2016, 02:18:06 AM...I've had an anonymous member send me a picture of the reel stand snapping off at 15 lbs of drag...

I was fishing my second LT100 at 22lbs drag when the handle bolt snapped:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=14562.0

The reel stand was unaffected. Both LT100's will be on the 2016 trip.

the same yellow grease found in a Quantum 50 (new model). Most of the grease was hard like a stone and must be removed with dremel... and have a look to the bearing.....
Argue the Fin-Nor and Quantum are coming from the same factory...

---

Interesting Wolli,
Maybe what I have isn't a Fin Nor at all.
I noticed when Chad posted the link for parts. It says Zebco Brands.
Tony Hawk gave a great review of this reel. That was the major deciding factor.
An anonymous member sent me this photo of the stem snapping at 15 lbs of drag.
I hope they have made improvements to fix these problems.

---

I believe that Zebco is the parent company for Fin-Nor, Quantum, Pflueger, & others.

Quote from: Shark Hunter on March 12, 2016, 01:49:49 PM

That right there would be enough for me to steer clear :-\

Sal

Yea, that's not the only one that has broken. Fin Nor keeps it hushed up (deleting photos posted to their Facebook page).

The Quantum Cabo is essentially the identical reel design inside the main gear box (albeit with some different gear material choices) but chose to use way more meat in the stem to prevent breakage:

(http://s266.photobucket.com/user/haugusnord/media/haugusnord042/37f570bf-ec31-4d11-9057-14edc84c30b7_zpsog3noquu.jpg.html)

The whole Cabo 100/120 vs Fin Nor Lethal 100 (both produced by Zebco in the same factory) is an interesting story. Hard to imagine why one reel sells around $120 and the other around $250....Maybe someone can explain that for us because looking at the reels they are very similar inside and out.

It will be interesting to see how the Lethal 100 goes forward if the stem/handle issues get sorted and then what the price is...

Will be interested to see the line lay Shark Hunter, its been a problem for some (bottom heavy stacking due to wrong spec/manfacturing error on the main shaft).

It's a shame, it is a nice reel on the inside. This happening is not a bad thing, but when the manufacturer tries to hide it, that's another story.
They should jump on it and make it right.
Here is what I think and this is only my opinion:
I don't believe the material used is bad, from what I see, it is just a cause of a bad design.
There is no way any reel would hold up if the base of the stem was attached only 50%.
It is however an easy fix, all the need to do is to keep the top of the housing where the stem gets attached solid.
(http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pescatore1/media/IMG_0330_zpsghgtnd03.jpg.html)
This is actually the first time that I've seen such design :-\.

Sal

Yes, if you are going to save weight you have to have very, very modest drags to go with them.

If you look at Shimano in the Stradic/Sustain etc and Penn in the Clash they keep the drags modest so they can safely lighten the frame. That is sensible.

But, yea Sal, new molds for the Frame is not necessarily a simple fix but really is needed.

This design for a reel with a drag that can produce 50lbs of drag (a ridiculous number for a budget reel) is too light. They are better off putting another ounce or two back into the frame (and handle) to balance the concept.

Hi Sal, ist this a shame?
My friend who is living on Cape Verde Islands send me his Stella 18000SW-A for service.
Notice what happened and never seen before. All six screws sheared off during fight with a big fish.
Wait and see if Shimano will replace the main and pinion gear free of charge

Wolli

---

Quote from: Wolli on March 12, 2016, 08:39:15 PM
Hi Sal, ist this a shame?
My friend who is living on Cape Verde Islands send me his Stella 18000SW-A for service.
Notice what happened and never seen before. All six screws sheared off during fight with a big fish.
Wait and see if Shimano will replace the main and pinion gear free of charge

Wolli

I don't know whether to laugh, cry or cheer!  ???

Reel and gears were strong enough to cause that...or that it happened.

wow... :-\

Wow is right. It would take a lot of force for that to happen, I'm thinking bad screws or maybe the hole wasn't properly drilled  to size :-\.
Is that drilled flange flat at the base or does it have some type of post that interlock with the gear for added protection?

Quote from: Alto Mare on March 12, 2016, 09:06:47 PM
Wow is right. It would take a lot of force for that to happen, I'm thinking bad screws or maybe the hole wasn't properly drilled  to size :-\.
Is that drilled flange flat at the base or does it have some type of post that interlock with the gear for added protection?

Honestly, I wonder if there is more to the story...

Those screws are typically loctite held...I could see someone shearing them off trying to remove them, particularly if not properly hardened....but hard to imagine the gears are not damaged if the force was enough to shear them in some kind of fishing use?

Yep,

John and Sal are right -- more to this puzzle than meets the eye.

Those screws do not come apart like that -- if tight -- or if not over torqued when removing.

Plus, likely the gear would damage before all of those screws would sheer off.

Believe this is close to a $1300 reel.

As for the LT-100 frame stem breaking -- there is a lot of drag pressure on this reel due to the 7 drag stack producing such high numbers.  Things happen -- and many folks do not understand the physics and dynamics of the interaction between a good rod, heavy fish, and large drag number reel.

Sometimes better to keep the drag a little under max -- and let the rod do the work-- along with the angler -- and on the down stroke of the pump-n-crank fighting cycle -- use the reel to do what it does best -- retrieve line.

Then I might contact Tom at Cortez -- and have him design some sort of SS 2 part screw together sleeve to go over the stand stem, and rear part of the body -- thus becoming a reinforcing sleeve brace.

If it cost $100 -- that would still only be a $200 reel compared to $1300.

Just my initial thoughts and opinion.

Best,

Fred

A replacement body for the Lethal 100 is only $9.45 plus shipping from Fin Nor.  How many of those do you have to break before this reel costs as much as even a Shimano Saragosa? 

http://www.tackleservice.com/Consumer/Product_detail_m.aspx?ProductID=5420

Quote from: Three se7ens on March 13, 2016, 04:27:09 AM
A replacement body for the Lethal 100 is only $9.45 plus shipping from Fin Nor.  How many of those do you have to break before this reel costs as much as even a Shimano Saragosa? 

http://www.tackleservice.com/Consumer/Product_detail_m.aspx?ProductID=5420

Only one if it ruins a trip offshore!  We all know how expensive that is.  ;)

Hard to say for certain that it is a design flaw or just casting error/batch problem but this is certainly not the first I have seen/heard of broken.

More power to the guys that want to make it work. If Penn or Shimano etc had this problem we would see a quick and public fix.

Quote from: johndtuttle on March 13, 2016, 04:44:09 AM

Quote from: Three se7ens on March 13, 2016, 04:27:09 AM
A replacement body for the Lethal 100 is only $9.45 plus shipping from Fin Nor.  How many of those do you have to break before this reel costs as much as even a Shimano Saragosa?  

http://www.tackleservice.com/Consumer/Product_detail_m.aspx?ProductID=5420

Only one if it ruins a trip offshore!  We all know how expensive that is.  ;)

Hard to say for certain that it is a design flaw or just casting error/batch problem but this is certainly not the first I have seen/heard of broken.


More power to the guys that want to make it work. If Penn or Shimano etc had this problem we would see a quick and public fix.

Part of me still feels like thats a smear campaign against fin nor for putting out a reel that ourperforms most reels that costs 3 times as much.  But that being said, I also question the quality control of a cast frame that Zebco can sell as a replacement part for $10. 

At the end of the day, I think the failure ratio isnt very high given the number sold.  It has a special place in the market, and its bringing a true heavy duty spinning reel down to a price point that few cannot justify.  Not everyone targets fish that can routinely put 35+ lbs of drag pressure on a reel on a regular basis.  The guys that do can easily justify a high dollar reel that will survive time after time against that.  But if you have a budget, and only get offshore a couple of times a year, its not so easy to justify a stella or saltiga, even if you risk breaking stuff. 

All I will say is, having replacement parts that are very affordable doesn't justify failure.
The users could very well be responsible for that particular failure, but I personally think it's related to the design, it just doesn't make sense to me.
30# on a spinner isn't the same as 30# on a conventional. Still, there is lots of pressure generated at the base of the stem, add a little twisting and that's what you'll get.

John, you're right about not being an easy fix, I meant easy in the way of pinpointing the problem.
Another fix would be to lower the drag #'s by installing spacers in the stack or changing the inner side of the  spool .
I'm no engineer and I'm not bashing Fin Nor, just giving my opinion for what it's worth.
I'm sure they're watching, so maybe they gather everyone's opinion and take it from there. :-\

Sal

Quote from: Three se7ens on March 13, 2016, 05:01:16 AM

Quote from: johndtuttle on March 13, 2016, 04:44:09 AM

Quote from: Three se7ens on March 13, 2016, 04:27:09 AM
A replacement body for the Lethal 100 is only $9.45 plus shipping from Fin Nor.  How many of those do you have to break before this reel costs as much as even a Shimano Saragosa? 

http://www.tackleservice.com/Consumer/Product_detail_m.aspx?ProductID=5420

Only one if it ruins a trip offshore!  We all know how expensive that is.  ;)

Hard to say for certain that it is a design flaw or just casting error/batch problem but this is certainly not the first I have seen/heard of broken.


More power to the guys that want to make it work. If Penn or Shimano etc had this problem we would see a quick and public fix.

Part of me still feels like thats a smear campaign against fin nor for putting out a reel that ourperforms most reels that costs 3 times as much.  But that being said, I also question the quality control of a cast frame that Zebco can sell as a replacement part for $10. 

At the end of the day, I think the failure ratio isnt very high given the number sold.  It has a special place in the market, and its bringing a true heavy duty spinning reel down to a price point that few cannot justify.  Not everyone targets fish that can routinely put 35+ lbs of drag pressure on a reel on a regular basis.  The guys that do can easily justify a high dollar reel that will survive time after time against that.  But if you have a budget, and only get offshore a couple of times a year, its not so easy to justify a stella or saltiga, even if you risk breaking stuff. 

Why on earth would anyone want to smear Fin Nor?  ??? They are about the least consequential of any reel maker out there that I can think of?

I think at the end of the day we will see that Fin Nor made the reel too light in the stem. People shouldn't also expect miracles at 50#s of drag unless they have harnessed up and felt that at the end of a rod. Its enough to pull a man straight overboard and this reel might need to be beefed up to stand up to that over time. The guys at Quantum certainly thought so...

Honestly, the only other spinning reel I have ever seen with this problem have been Stellas in the 2008 version. I snapped the stem of one of those...by dropping it on a hard wood floor lol. But others fishing heavy drag broke them too. Shimano then rushed out the 2013 Stella with a much beefed up stem. If Fin Nor is on the ball they would do the same.

best


(http://s266.photobucket.com/user/haugusnord/media/haugusnord023/11885348_828926363225_73047683865029230_n_zpsywtgeqf1.jpg.html)

(http://s266.photobucket.com/user/haugusnord/media/haugusnord033/28_zpsrzpatf3d.jpg.html)

Hi All,

In our rather unique fishery, where we are recently converting over to surf casting with heavy braids, we did a lot of research into reels and the likely consequences of them having a very tough life in our fishery. At the end of the day we did end up looking seriously at the Fin-Nor Lethal and the Quantum Cabo, both having by far superiour drag and build construction. The Lethal was basically offered as a cheaper version of the Cabo, and our sales have indicated that while the Fin-Nor is very attractive, it is being consistantly out sold by the Cabo.

This is without local publicity of the drawbacks that have been attributed to the Fin-Nor, but then we haven't seen any of the problems that have been highlighted. However, what we have seen is that there have been more problems with so called higher end reels, which boast serious 'waterproofing' installations, which have failed miserably, and as a consequence have then had serious problems with corrosion in the 'gearbox', which we haven't seen with either the Fin-Nor or the Cabo - probably because those two reels don't have many (if any Cabo) aluminium parts in the gearbox.

What we have seen is horrifyingly corroded reels from some of the big names, but that is as a direct result of our fishery, where we wade with the rods and reels, and the reels do spend a considerable time truly underwater. This is where the bigger Cabos come out on top, as they have a deliberately designed drain plug to let water out after fishing, and a really simple to access 'gearbox' to maintain the reels - just 4 Torx screws, and the cover is off - no need to remove the rotor or spool assembly.

At the end of the day, it very much is 'horses for courses', and obviously budget. As we in the 'Tani Family' have often seen there is no such thing as a perfect fishing reel.

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri

Quote from: Jeri on March 13, 2016, 09:13:34 AM...As we in the 'Tani Family' have often seen there is no such thing as a perfect fishing reel.

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri

The myth of "perfection" with objects of human creation is so often ignored. Whenever someone on any fishing website asks for the "best" this or that for whatever type of fishing activity, it always ends up being umpteen different responses... ::)

The "yellow' grease shown I have found in most all the Fin Nor reels and it matches excactly the yellow "reel butter" grease. I had a small tube of it but I forget who makes it. It's a synthetic reel grease.

Anytime I work on a Shimano spinner with main gear screws I check those screws. They are known to come loose. On that reel shown they were probably already loose. I've seen them loose many times.

I did a pre service on a Penn SSV Surf spinning reel the other day. That thing was built like a tank. It uses a super thick worm gear to slow the rotor oscillation to a crawl. The rotor goes around the spool 50 times up and 50 times down. The line lay looked like a machine was putting it on. That would be my number 1 surf fishing reel if using a spinner.      

---

Some more images that show how much more beef the Quantum puts in their stem as compared to the Lethal 100 in an otherwise similar body plan.

Lethal 100:

(http://s266.photobucket.com/user/haugusnord/media/04201a_zpsueioldla.jpg.html)


Cabo:

(http://s266.photobucket.com/user/haugusnord/media/04_zpsablwqf5g.jpg.html)

Quote from: handi2 on March 14, 2016, 12:22:56 AM
The "yellow' grease shown I have found in most all the Fin Nor reels and it matches excactly the yellow "reel butter" grease. I had a small tube of it but I forget who makes it. It's a synthetic reel grease.

Anytime I work on a Shimano spinner with main gear screws I check those screws. They are known to come loose. On that reel shown they were probably already loose. I've seen them loose many times.

I did a pre service on a Penn SSV Surf spinning reel the other day. That thing was built like a tank. It uses a super thick worm gear to slow the rotor oscillation to a crawl. The rotor goes around the spool 50 times up and 50 times down. The line lay looked like a machine was putting it on. That would be my number 1 surf fishing reel if using a spinner.     

Yep, there is no question the Penn's frame and rotor are built to withstand the force their brilliant drag produces. But then people complain they are too heavy! :(

Probably best for a bait and weight reel though I bet they cast a mile. :)

an other nice example of broken reel.
Its an ATC from Singapore. Argue its also made in China.
www.atcrods.com/index.php/products/reels/spinning/atc-astromac-spinning-reels/

And what seen during service in Quantum reels makes not happy. The CSP80PTS after one week jigging and popping in Oman..

---

and compare the Quantum 80 with a two year old Cabo 50 (new model)

there are reels in the market i would take as a gift, but sell them same day at Ebay....

---

Well, we can see some failure in everyone's reels, no company is immune.

Unfortunately the increase in the sealing of spinning reels has been a boon for some users and a trap for others.

A boon in the sense that normal use and care does produce a more reliable reel, but others assume too much after a soaking in saltwater and delay service of the reels etc and get into trouble.

If they increase the tolerances of the seals, the reels then become stiff and sluggish and less fun to fish.

A large part of me will always feel that sealing reels is a fools errand and that simply regular maintenance and grease will keep your reel alive for decades (and they have a proven track record of doing that). Maybe some can try and keep them above water :).

All seals wear out, and will not be available as replacement parts some day. Marine Grease will be available for the foreseeable future.

Even the mighty submarine sealing of a Van Staal requires replacement of the seals regularly...hardly worth it for most guys, imo.

Hi All,

I'd have to agree with John on both scores, that no manufacturer is immune from isolated problems in production line works - that the odd reel is going to slip through with faults.

And secondly that the whole quest for 'waterproof' or 'water resistant' reel is a pointless exercise. With our fishing here in Namibia, we end up with a lot of reels actually being used submerged, and perhaps this is the ultimate test of the manufacturer's hype. I have seen very expensive and middle level priced reels all with amazingly complex multiple layer gaskets and seals fail with remarkable ease and then catastrophic failure of the cheaper metal internals when realistic maintenance cycles haven't been followed.

My wife uses a Cabo 70 - older model PTSD, wading, and apart froma  few drops of water getting trapped by the grease, virtually no failure points on the internals after 3 years of use in our surf conditions. I am currently using a Cabo 100 PTSE model, and the fact that it has an actual drain plug to let water out is an absolute boon - end of the trip just unscrew and let all the sea water out, screw it back in and it is ready to go for another 7 hours of submersion. These are both reels with virtually no seals, as perhaps they have recognised that it is a pointless exercise, but the fact that just four screws and the gearbox cover is off, and the reel can be re-greased is another boon.

Fixed spool reels are going down a road of ever increasing complexity to satisfy a very wide market footprint, and generally on this aspect of preventing water getting into the gearbox, they are going to fail. Better assume water is going to get in, so make facility to let the water out, and make maintenance easy to achieve.

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri

Quote from: Jeri on March 16, 2016, 02:59:26 AM
make maintenance easy to achieve.
/quote]

No manufacturer does that anymore. Complexity, quick outdatedness and a guaranty of no long term parts availability is the business model now. Profit above reputation and repeat business.

This is becoming one of my favorite threads, hearing comparisons from all over the world about big spinners used for various applications. 

Jeri - I had an old Boca 40 that I absolutely loved, and I kick myself for selling it.  Insanely smooth and excellent cast-ability; quality products for sure.

Quote from: Jeri on March 16, 2016, 02:59:26 AM
Hi All,

I'd have to agree with John on both scores, that no manufacturer is immune from isolated problems in production line works - that the odd reel is going to slip through with faults.

And secondly that the whole quest for 'waterproof' or 'water resistant' reel is a pointless exercise. With our fishing here in Namibia, we end up with a lot of reels actually being used submerged, and perhaps this is the ultimate test of the manufacturer's hype. I have seen very expensive and middle level priced reels all with amazingly complex multiple layer gaskets and seals fail with remarkable ease and then catastrophic failure of the cheaper metal internals when realistic maintenance cycles haven't been followed.

My wife uses a Cabo 70 - older model PTSD, wading, and apart froma  few drops of water getting trapped by the grease, virtually no failure points on the internals after 3 years of use in our surf conditions. I am currently using a Cabo 100 PTSE model, and the fact that it has an actual drain plug to let water out is an absolute boon - end of the trip just unscrew and let all the sea water out, screw it back in and it is ready to go for another 7 hours of submersion. These are both reels with virtually no seals, as perhaps they have recognised that it is a pointless exercise, but the fact that just four screws and the gearbox cover is off, and the reel can be re-greased is another boon.

Fixed spool reels are going down a road of ever increasing complexity to satisfy a very wide market footprint, and generally on this aspect of preventing water getting into the gearbox, they are going to fail. Better assume water is going to get in, so make facility to let the water out, and make maintenance easy to achieve.

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri

To fill out this story a little bit (I know we are getting a bit off topic...) the reels that truly have "submarine level of sealing" the Van Staal and Zeebass both require regular replacement of their seals but do truly keep all water out of a reel used by a wading or swimming above water fisherman. Technically VS said that if you didn't have your reel factory serviced every year for $100 then your warranty became void...a testament to how often the seals need to be replaced to still have enough tightness to keep water out (they wear with rotation of parts inside them and slowly lose resilience etc). Needless to say this is a dilemma getting more parts in many places.

But having spun a VS I can tell you they are no fun to fish (for me) and also have very slow retrieves for cranking power to overcome the seals...which limits their application as well. The Penn Torque is not as stiff, and I remove some of the seals to make them more free spinning and compensate with a little extra grease. Granted I don't have the need to submerge the Torque.

Anyways. Point being is that an "open" design that allows evaporation of what water that gets inside or ports for simple drainage plus regular grease maintenance of a simple design is far more reliable, imo.

Unfortunately most spending upwards of $200 on a reel consider extra seals "value added" even though they arguably are more trouble than they are worth as the reel ages. Eventually they will let water in. The question is how many of them will get caught in time at the lower price points where people don't take care of their reels? I think the manufacturers are betting that if they get more people through the first 2-3 years they will think they got their money's worth. After that...:(


best

The newer Cabo's I use have been great with no problems at all. I think they are superb and super strong.

Hi All,

To add a little more to this perhaps cynical debate.

Companies that believe that their 'waterproofing' system works, then save a considerable amount of money in build costs, by switching out noble metal gears and mechanisms for alumium and the like. Then when the 'waterproofing system' fails, the salt water creates havoc - unseen inside the gearbox.

Here Finnor and Quantum have stayed away from this cost saving shortcut with their brass and stainless gears. We have even had one of the non-waterproof Van Staals that got abused, and yes all the grease turned to mush, and a couple of the bearings did corrode - mainly in the race carriers, but the rest of the reel was still unblemished. A good clean, some new bearinsg and a proper coating of marine grade grease, and it was back to new, as all the stainless components were sound.

The point here is that no matter what you do to aluminium, once submerged ina bath of salt water, trapped their by various seals and gaskets - the inevitable is going to happen.

At this point do the reel manufacturers follow the multiplier trend of using marine grade components, and drill drain holes in all their reels? The alternative is perhaps to have a spring pressure controlled grease nipple on the casing., and pump the gearbox full of marine grease???

Interesting times ahead, as to how various manufacturers will address this issue.

Cheers from sunny Africa,


Jeri

Sounds like a good case for a non metal body. The most durable conventional reels I own are my TLD Star drags.

My Vann Staal is bulletproof  but no doubt stiff to crank, drag is pretty good caught a 35# Permit 20# flouro leader.

I had it about five years and used it a lot (Sal can tell you how bad my Penns are abused), and finally had it factory serviced last month and it was good to go.

Doesn't spin like a Stella but never owned one of those.

I do have some Cabos that i like as well, and Some 750ss, 850ss,950ss and the FN LT100

Quote from: basto on March 18, 2016, 12:15:34 AM
Sounds like a good case for a non metal body. The most durable conventional reels I own are my TLD Star drags.

It very rarely is the body giving the trouble (other than the design of the LT 100 stem being too light) but when it comes to corrosion the  frames/rotors hold up remarkably well. Its the disconnect between reels that have modest levels of sealing and the guys using them that think they are submarines.

I would rather fish a free-spinning reel with few seals if it was uber easy to service. On the West Coast north of Pt. Conception the water is too dam cold and rough to wade very deep in the surf. Really, other than the guys in New England there is damn little use for a totally sealed reel in the USA. Super high quality internals don't need seals. Marine Brass and Stainless Steel only need grease.

Quote from: foakes on February 25, 2016, 04:45:39 PM
These are solid, good value reels.

Personally, I know there are a few finish issues on these, and maybe the handles could be a little stronger -- but overall, I have less issues with these at a little over $100 -- then I do with putting a $1300 Stella on the South end of a fishing stick.

Only thing to recommend would be a good, and complete fishing Pre-Service in strategic areas to give it more protection, performance, and longevity.





Fred

Fred, as usual....   Very well said !  
I'm always learning. Always seeking more in this endeavor to feed what my x calls my sickness. I am far from being anything close to an expert
I have one of these reels. It's a friends who gave it to me some time ago to use & report back.
I'm not giving it back he's forgot I still have it. I'll bring it up when discussing payment after removing his crispy cracker of a dead Locust tree....Ha!

Might be good for some of you who have disqualified this reel because of it's apparent short comings to take a moments pause.

I'm sure some of you have got a chuckle out of me coming here at the start & wanting a tiny reel that produced 20 lbs. of drag.
With expectations it could be fished at that level a long time with out issue.

"YOU NEED A BIGGER REEL !" was the mantra coming from the schooled & wise ones.  
Probably another smirk & giggle as I complained out loud of my frustration with my 3 Fathom 25N's & their drag, as I went about attempting to improve them. In the end I did improve my 25N's. Not as much as I would have liked.
However through my endeavor with these reels I have learned & come to realize, accept what I have. That is 3 very durable reels, fully capable of fishing drag set for heavy 40 lb. line, with the ability to out cast most reels costing far more !  I'll take any reel that accomplishes this for it's line class any day of the week.

Which brings me to this reel the LT 100. When we break stuff with use, that should tell us something. In evaluating the break or failure I ask my self does this reel have enough merit to do something different &  warrant another try ?
I think this reel at its price most certainly does.  This reel fished at 15 - 20 lbs. of drag will give better long term service than many others that come with a price exceeding what is for some a full weeks pay or more.  
If I were fishing to save my life & was offered 2, well used reels to do it with, one being this reel & the other a Stella. I'd pick the LT100 every time....Jeff

I've been looking at these reels for a long time but have yet to pull the trigger. My current surf reel is a Shimano Baitrunner 8000D which doesn't like sand too much. Based on what I see here, I'm leaning Spinfisher.

 
If I were fishing to save my life & was offered 2, well used reels to do it with, one being this reel & the other a Stella. I'd pick the LT100 every time....Jeff

Take the Stella, it has Platinum Service. For $30, they will replace everything defective and you'll get back a mechanically perfect reel. Sell it for $500 and buy a boatload of well used LT100.
[/quote]

From BD Outdoors fighting BFT and the Lethal 100:

"Now, about the reel.... DON'T EVER use a Fin-Nor Lethal 100 to fight a tuna. Don't even buy one. I never mistreated this reel or allowed it to slam against the rail, or dropped it on the deck, or anything else that might have compromised its strength. I went back and watched video of the fight to confirm my memory of it, and at no point did the reel touch the rail with any force. I was using approx. 23# of drag with 80# line and the rod was handling it, so I thought the outfit would be OK. The reel ended up breaking at the stem. The cast metal stem simply could not withstand that kind of pressure. I have since found reviews online describing similar failures, including pictures that look just like my broken reel. Apparently, this reel has issues with the stem breaking right where it contacts the body. "

Pretty sure the catastrophic failures of the frame of the Lethal 100 deserve a serious redesign. Until that happens I am going to steer people clear.

Every reel has a weak point.  It sounds to me like that although the reel's internals can handle greater drag numbers then many similar priced/size spinning reels, the cast frame, and in particular.. the stem, can not handle the higher loads.  There have definately been many documented cases of these failures. 

Fin-Nor is a good company -- and I would expect them to stand behind their products.

John T. --

To your knowledge -- has anyone contacted Fin-Nor about this issue?

If so, what was their response?

If not, I could contact them.

There are three fixes I could think of very quickly -- the first of which would be a redesigned body frame reinforced and composed of a tougher metallic alloy.

In the old days, DAM Quick had a replaceable foot and stem on their 270 Super Salt Water Series from the 60's.  But these old reels were never called upon to pull the drag numbers we are working with today.  In those days, we would use the rod strength and action to bring the fish to the rail -- and the reel was for primarily retrieving line.

No blame placed -- but too many anglers today read the bend in their rod -- leave it there -- and just reel away.  As most of us know, there are techniques that are useful to bringing in a large fish.  And it is becoming a lost skill to many.

Just my opinions.

Best,

Fred

---

I surf fished mine this past May hoping to test it. Nothing took my bait.

@Foakes:

To my knowledge Fred, Fin Nor has been good about replacements of broken stems and handles...and I can't say I have heard of anyone with repeat trouble.

However, Fin Nor has no online presence like a number of other companies so the community has not heard any official response as to the future.

I think a redesign is in order. If you look at the other Zebco reel in this thread offered by their other brand they have a significantly beefed up stem. I think that is the way to go forward given the powerful drag of this reel.

I hope they do beef up this reel where needed. Until then I'm happy fishing this one at & mostly below 20 lbs. of drag. However after John's post & looking  into it more... I would have to be concerned if I ever dropped this reel on a hard surface vs dropping say any of my US113 on the driveway....Jeff

Quote from: foakes on June 29, 2016, 08:28:15 PM...No blame placed -- but too many anglers today read the bend in their rod -- leave it there -- and just reel away.  As most of us know, there are techniques that are useful to bringing in a large fish.  And it is becoming a lost skill to many...

Techniques are key. Picked up on this back in 2014 with my first LT100. Yoyo-ing at Cedros and got a YT hooked up on a Sumo heavy; when I tried to crank it in like the conventional I had used on the previous YT, the handle didn't budge. Knew immediately that it was a different ball game and switched to the "lift slow/drop fast" that I had seen on YouTube of guys with spinners on big tuna and GT.



I didn't hesitate throwing poppers with them this year on the SOA 5-day though nothing hooked up. Never got to try the short drop/ quarter-crank Kil Song had described in one of his posts on BD. Was fully aware of and fully accepted the risk of frame failure if it hooked up a a larger BFT, but if I didn't try, I was never gonna know whether technique would have made a difference.

Hi everyone.
Might be abit late to add to this discussion.
I just bought a lethel 100 last weekend and plan to beach fish for mulloway, rays and the odd shark that comes along.
I'm planning to load it up with 50lb braid, so will be interested how it goes. The stem is a issue by the looks of it but i doubt i will be going the full drag setting from the sand.  That will be the job of the overheads. So if the session works out next weekend ill let you know how it went, good or bad.

Quote from: PRSD on April 21, 2017, 10:25:43 AM
...I just bought a lethel 100 last weekend and plan to beach fish for mulloway, rays and the odd shark that comes along.
I'm planning to load it up with 50lb braid, so will be interested how it goes. The stem is a issue by the looks of it but i doubt i will be going the full drag setting from the sand...

You should have no issues with the LT100 as a 50lb reel. I yoyo-ed my first LT100 as a 50lb reel (50lb braid main/50lb mono top shot @ 15lbs drag) at Cedros on the 2014 and 2015 SOA charters and landed YT with no issues.

My second LT100 was also on the 2015 trip, and the head of the handle securing bolt's snapped (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=14562.0) on a YT; I was fishing it as a 100lb setup (100lb braid main/100lb mono topshot @ 22lbs drag). There's a new handle on that second LT100, and I plan on pushing it just as hard on the 2017 SOA trip. Might even push the drag up to 30lbs, but it will go NOWHERE near the 45lbs+ factory rating or the 50lbs+ that Alan Hawk pushed his LT100 to.

So, if Fin Nor does address the stem and handle issues, that magic $100 price point would probably disappear. That smear campaign theory could have merit considering A.Hawk's positive review, and the fact of it's price point, probably making it a superior market performer. A.H. himself is always pointing out shady to evil practices by various factions trying to get more market share. But if I hadda bet on it, I'd say the stem n' handle are weak points.
Good info. here. Gonna haveta keep my drag at <30lbs. and hope I got the needed line capacity. Mabey get more, by decreasing from 65lb to 50lb spectra.

As I age I seem to worry less about "losing the fish of a lifetime" for whatever reasons, including mechanical failure. Weight-wise I lucked into landing one many years ago already, anyway. But, there've been others I can't forget, and its been so much more than their size. You know those days, when EVERYTHING comes together including the bite.
One thing on the L-100 others have mentioned that I don't like is the line-lay. I'm sure (in comparison to those slow oscillating surf casters), it inhibits casting distance.
Gfish

While I've heard of stems snapping I don't think anyone mentioned what kind of drag they were using when it broke.

Well the update.
I gave the reel a little workout on sunday. Not as planned, but of the wharf down tarthra. One big ray that i could not stop just kept cranking up the drag until the 50lb braid broke. Had a 100lb leader and circle hook. Stopped tightening the drag when when it become to hard to stay standing up.
The other one was when something done 100m in less then 10 seconds and cut me of in the rocks. Thinking shark or kingfish. Never seen what it was but very fast and dirty fighter.
Over all inpressed with the reel. Smooth drag even at high settings. Will go over it when i give it a clean

not a big fan of anyone's 50 pound braid.  seen them break too often. i prefer 60 hollow or 65 solid as a minimum for anything heavy duty.

So true with the braid. Unfortunately  here in Australia we tend to pay through the nose when it comes to quality. We seem to be the dumping  ground for most things.
The braid i have soon be had, was sold as sport fisher. Cheap but in my price range at the time. I think i will go to mono on the lethel and stay within the 15kg limit. Might be easier on the reel long term,  definitely easier on me until i get back up to full health.

I started this thread 2 years ago.
A Shark from the beach was finally caught with one of these reels by my Son.
It performed like a champ.

---

Quote from: alantani on April 30, 2017, 04:58:36 PM
not a big fan of anyone's 50 pound braid.  seen them break too often. i prefer 60 hollow or 65 solid as a minimum for anything heavy duty.

many affordable brands jump from 4-strand to 8-strand, at 60/65 lbs...  maybe that's why

Quote from: philaroman on May 24, 2018, 02:59:39 AM

Quote from: alantani on April 30, 2017, 04:58:36 PM
not a big fan of anyone's 50 pound braid.  seen them break too often. i prefer 60 hollow or 65 solid as a minimum for anything heavy duty.

many affordable brands jump from 4-strand to 8-strand, at 60/65 lbs...  maybe that's why

I agree with Alan on this. With that said I would like to see shock load testing on different makes & strand count on 50 braid... Jeff

So I see people far smarter than myself suggesting a service for these reels before using. What would that service entail? Are there any areas that need special attention? I've owned this reel for about a month now, cast it a few times but haven't hooked anything yet. Better late than never?

In the years since this was released has anyone figured a solution to the snapping stems? Was wondering if I should just have my buddy weld on some extra aluminum to beef it up. He's really good but i suspect it still wouldn't be the prettiest solution. But that's ok as long as it works.

If I remember, mine came outta the factory with a pretty good lube job. I would just make sure the drag washers are greased, then partially remove parts in the gear box and rotor and make sure the grease is covering everything. I paint parts such as side-plates, etc., with marine grease. If there's any scratched anodizing that grease may prevent corrosion.

Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on September 02, 2020, 06:57:48 PM
So I see people far smarter than myself suggesting a service for these reels before using. What would that service entail? Are there any areas that need special attention? I've owned this reel for about a month now, cast it a few times but haven't hooked anything yet. Better late than never?

In the years since this was released has anyone figured a solution to the snapping stems? Was wondering if I should just have my buddy weld on some extra aluminum to beef it up. He's really good but i suspect it still wouldn't be the prettiest solution. But that's ok as long as it works.

I've fished the LT100 on the SOA trips since 2014; the two I have are configured as 50lb and 60lb setups; no issues to date.

My suspicion about the snapping stems is based on two possible main culprits:

• Conventional guys using a heavy spinner for the first time and trying to force crank the LT100 like a conventional.
• A drop in material quality at the factory for the body casts for a particular production run.

Since the LT100 is still being sold with no known recent reports of stem snaps, it would appear both issues have been "resolved."

At some point in the future, you can evaluate whether swapping out the line roller's 4x8x3 bearings for bushings is a good move.

I have several of these reels now,
They can handle A nice 5 footer from the beach any day of the week.
Pre Service and use smart tactics.
The LT100 is a winner. ;D

For a good 50# braid check out the Seaguar Threadlock... it's ABS is way above it's rating. As I recall, the Berkeley Prospec 50# has an ABS of about 75#.

I have 60lb hollow threadlock on a few reels. Good stuff. Casts really well.

I have no need for 50lbs of drag on my LT100, so I have rearranged the drag stack to give me approx 30 lbs of drag. This can be done by using the stock drag that comes with the reel.
It also does not alter the length of the drag stack.
So my LT100 has what I call a 5 stack now, not a 7 stack.

This is the sequence starting from the bottom of the spool.
Take a pic of the original sequence first, if you want to do this.

2 eared metal
1 carbontex
2 keyed metal
2 carbontex
1 eared metal
1 carbontex
1 keyed metal
2 carbontex
1 eared metal
1 carbontex
1 keyed metal

Quote from: basto on June 27, 2021, 09:46:21 PM
I have no need for 50lbs of drag on my LT100, so I have rearranged the drag stack to give me approx 30 lbs of drag. This can be done by using the stock drag that comes with the reel.
It also does not alter the length of the drag stack.
So my LT100 has what I call a 5 stack now, not a 7 stack.

This is the sequence starting from the bottom of the spool.
Take a pic of the original sequence first, if you want to do this.

2 eared metal
1 carbontex
2 keyed metal
2 carbontex
1 eared metal
1 carbontex
1 keyed metal
2 carbontex
1 eared metal
1 carbontex
1 keyed metal

What is the purpose of this? I don't use 50# of drag either, but having up to 50# available means it's silky smooth at 25. But topping out at 30# means it's likely a lot less smooth at 25, because you have to crank it down closer to the max drag to get that pressure.

Your heat created at 25# on your setup will also be less distributed than it was on stock setup set to 25# (though likely the same total amount of thermal energy, thus each drag disk is hotter) meaning you'll see the negative effects of the heat generated a lot sooner than stock. I may be wrong about that in the long term if your setup is merely rearranging the stack not removing elements, but it's still fewer active carbon disks so until the heat has time to distribute itself the condition described above is likely accurate during the fight.

I don't mean to say it any way other than constructively, but to the best of my understanding, your mod sounds like a functionality downgrade, and not just a decreased max drag as intended.

Am I misunderstanding something?

I got the idea from PENN`s Versa drag. You can rearrange their drag like this, so I thought it must be viable and have some integrity.
My sole goal was to lessen the chance of  breaking  any reel stems or handles.
I know I can just use the reel stock and set at no more than 30lbs ,but it is not impossible to get carried away in the heat of battle and crank up more drag than you thought.
Anyway , I will be able to test it in a few days on some reef dwellers and try to detect how hot it is getting.Thanks for your reply.
Greg

Yeah, but versa drag sounds like something the marketing dept came up with to take advantage of a non-existent feature. You can mess with the order of the washers in any reel!  Kinda like Progressives name your price tool or Shimano's Hagane tech!

It's been years since I've heard of a LT 100 stem snapping so it must've been someone doing something stupid then blaming the reel.

just guessing, here: the versa drag seems a bit of a gimmick,
but makes more sense w/ drag washers that are somewhat compressible
by stacking fiber washers, you'd gain adjustability, as you lost MAX

w/ hard, stiff CF it would be more like Jason suggests -- straight loss of efficiency
for lower MAX, strictly, it would be better to fix the knob to bottom out before reaching said MAX
might even do it w/ some type of gasket for added water resistance

Has anyone put a recent manufacture of these to the test? A member pointed out a sale recently, so at $89 delivered, I figured "what the heck". MSRP is well above the Ben that  Daron paid at the beginning of the thread six years ago. My initial thought was to put it on a trevala jigging rod with 80 braid for grouper fishing, but that means lock it down, stop'em or pop'em. Maybe not the best idea after I read this thread....

Worst case I'll drum fish with it and I'm sure it's more than up for that task.


John

Did i miss something? What in this thread is making you think that's not a viable option? You're making me second guess, if not my reel, maybe my reading ability.

Economics. Maybe they want to sell 100,000 reels at 100 bucks. Versus 10,000 reels at 200 bucks.

While not getting into buyer motivations, perceptions, and human nature —- just get one of these.  You won't be sorry.

Does a new truck need to cost $65K, a new iPhone $1K, a cup of Starbucks $5, or a gallon of gas $5.50?

Only, if you buy into the corporate myth and mentality of high returns...and squeeze 'em until they bleed...

But for some folks —- their perceived value is based on —- the higher the price, the better the product.

The prices on these are going to go up soon —- just watch.

One more thing —- don't confuse the quality of this reel with the other smaller reels in the Lethal Line-Up.

This reel is in a class by itself.

At first, I figured that Fin-Nor made a mistake in pricing these so low.  Now I realize the genius of their marketing.

IMO.

Best, Fred

Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on April 27, 2022, 03:47:32 PMDid i miss something? What in this thread is making you think that's not a viable option? You're making me second guess, if not my reel, maybe my reading ability.

Looking at pictures of snapped stems...Grouper go straight into the rocks and you are done, plus i get 5X as many AJ's up to 40-50 lbs which pull as hard as tuna, at least, but you can let them run. Grouper is lock the drag and get on it for the first 15-20 feet, with only about 15 feet of heavy mono leader, so no stretch in the main braided running line to absorb shocks. Smooth drag doesn't much matter, you want no pull at all in that first few seconds. I'm gonna try it anyway. The good thing about a spinner in this application is retrieve rate to check bait.

May order another- I get the feel this price was a close-out in advance of model reboot or something, and as Fred said, they will def not get cheaper.

I havent seen a snapped stem pic dated in the past 4 years. I think there may have been a manufacturing error that has since been corrected. Hoping for the best myself. And that's also my suspicion about this price. They may be discontinuing it or something. Kinda makes me want another.

I have one in my shop with a broken stem

Quote from: handi2 on April 27, 2022, 06:58:22 PMI have one in my shop with a broken stem

Recent?

Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.



As you state...even tho it claims 43 lbs of drag, and my Gen 1 80 Internationals claim 37, I'll never go deliberately fish for BFT with the Lethal, but the 80's have certainly caught their share in the history of the reel. No doubt there can be bad castings, etc. I have a fractured Abu 6500 spool at the moment that had braid on, used lightly, that split four ways. Never seen an Abu spool crack as such in 40 years of playing with them, and 99% of that time was using mono. May leave the 9500SS on the jigging rod. I just kinda feel twitchy having Penn reels on Shimano rods. The fish pay attention to that sort of thing so we should too.

When I first got my two LT 100's, I ran them at 30lb and 27lb max drag; never hooked on to anything big enough that would test the stem integrity. 40 lb YT was about it. Did have one handle stem bolt snap on me.

https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=14562.0

Once the Cabo 100 and 120 were acquired, the LT 100's were downgraded to 20lb and 16lb max drag. Feel much better with them there.

Ok so I'm still a bit grumpy about this. Who the heck puts loctite on a screw with such a small and easy to strip head? By the time I realized, it was too late. Never did get the oscillating gear out so I had to flush those bearings in place. The screws that hold down the AR were also glued in but made of better metal so I could eventually get them out.

---

Ok. Thanks for posting that Jason. Good to know. That's 3 weak parts that I know-of, now. It's made in China, so there "almost" has to be some others...
Then again, I have an '89 Abu Garcia Ambassadeur baitcaster(bass reel), made in Sweden, with a graphite composite,... REEL SEAT! The WHOLE THING. This puppy will be downgraded to real light duty, 10lb.mono leaders only. That's taking the graphite/plastic thing TOO FAR for me. Stupid Garcia Co. influence.

Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on July 13, 2022, 11:32:02 AMOk so I'm still a bit grumpy about this. Who the heck puts loctite on a screw with such a small and easy to strip head? By the time I realized, it was too late. Never did get the oscillating gear out so I had to flush those bearings in place. The screws that hold down the AR were also glued in but made of better metal so I could eventually get them out.

You used JIS screwdrivers on it I hope?  ;)

QuoteQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on July 13, 2022, 05:32:02 AM
Ok so I'm still a bit grumpy about this. Who the heck puts loctite on a screw with such a small and easy to strip head? By the time I realized, it was too late. Never did get the oscillating gear out so I had to flush those bearings in place. The screws that hold down the AR were also glued in but made of better metal so I could eventually get them out.

This Disclaimer SHOULD be on a lot of NEW STUFF...lol

WELCOME to the NEW IMPROVED REELS we have to offer that we don't want you to be able to take apart much less service PLUS
WE DON'T HAVE ANY PARTS EITHER
WORLD of Modern REELS !

We make it Convenient for ALL  anglers to simply purchase a NEW IMPROVED Version of the one you can't work on or get parts for and for ONLY a FEW DOLLARS MORE  :cf

Hi,

Purefishing told me, not longer to make the Fin-Nor Lethal.

Regards.

Is that why there was such a big sale on them not long ago? None available on Amazon, you may be right.

Did not use JIS screwdrivers, and I'm not sure if that's a joke or not but I've been meaning to get a set for a while now.

Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on July 14, 2022, 05:09:23 PMIs that why there was such a big sale on them not long ago? None available on Amazon, you may be right.

Did not use JIS screwdrivers, and I'm not sure if that's a joke or not but I've been meaning to get a set for a while now.

Not a joke, JIS drivers lock in to the slot.  Phillips drivers are (someone correct me if I am wrong) actually designed to cam out to stop overtorquing.  With properly sized JIS drivers I usually end up winding off the heads rather than stripping/camming out on the smaller screws.
cheers
Steve

Who's Hauky ???

What do you want to know about me?

How about heading for the welcome section and introducing yourself & telling us a little about yourself and your interests. get to know us personally.      Rudy

Quote from: Hauky on July 15, 2022, 05:31:31 AMWhat do you want to know about me?

welcome!!!!

I use the Vessel JIS screwdriver

Japanese Industry Standard

It does make a difference!

Hi all,

Thinking of picking up another reel for surf fishing. Come down with either an old Lethal 100 or a new recent Penn Slammer IV. I believe both LT100 is similar size with a Slammer 8500?

I go through this post from beginning till recent post in 2022. I can see that Lethal will NOT be manufacture anymore so the parts might be hard to get.

So, which reel should I go for now?

Shark Hunter,

How your LT100 hold up since 2016?

Thanks all.

It's a pretty large, heavy reel. Might get tired arm mussels if you cast it for a long period of time. Mines on a 15' 3-piece Daiwa surf rod, I don't cast too much. I can cast a-lot with a Loomis IMX 10.5 footer, and a Shimano Ultegra XTD. However the Ultegra is mostly graphite and feels flimsy and has prolly zinc composite gears(they corrode very easily). A sealed Penn such as the Battle 111 would prolly be better.

Whata ya think, Daron?

Yes, they are heavy reels. I mainly use my 13' and 15' as well, just chunk bait n wait. For casting lures and jigs, I mostly use 9'6 for long hours casting beach area.

My LT-100's have held up good.
Granted I haven't caught anything bigger than a 4 foot Blacktip on them.
I have a new Favorite right now. battle 3 10000.
It is surprisingly light for its size.

Penn Battle III is perhaps best in class right now, imo.

Compared to Daiwa BG:

Better line roller (sealed bearing inside v. nylon bushing).

All metal construction ie rotor too.

Sealed bearings throughout.

Brass Gears.

Far Heavier main shaft/spindle with a sealed bearing for the spool.

The only thing the BG does better: Slightly lighter. Perhaps a better clutch, but the BG clutch is wide open to salt so that negates the stainless springs and is probably a waste. Penn uses nylon springs which in actual use for a reel in this class no one complains about. Certainly more corrosion resistant over all by far.

Shimano Spheros very refined. Battle III probably tougher. I'd put them as a toss up. Pick your fave.

Hi,

are rotor and arm lever made of aluminium, too?
The BG doesn't have that.

Quote from: Hauky on September 23, 2023, 03:36:57 PMHi,

are rotor and arm lever made of aluminium, too?
The BG doesn't have that.

Yes, Battle III is all metal body and rotor (cast aluminum).

Surprise to hear Battle III come up, but I chuck my reel in water when hopping between rocks. Is Battle III sealing good?

It is IPX5 rated.
Long Read,but Alan Hawk has never steered me wrong.
https://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/btl3/

Quote from: Pierce on September 25, 2023, 03:11:43 PMSurprise to hear Battle III come up, but I chuck my reel in water when hopping between rocks. Is Battle III sealing good?

Sealing is not it's Forte. You have to step up closer to $200 for Spheros, Spinfisher vii etc for seals.