Reel Repair by Alan Tani

General Maintenance Tips => Fishing Antiques and Collectables => Topic started by: sdlehr on March 22, 2016, 03:49:46 AM

Title: Sea Ford Restoration
Post by: sdlehr on March 22, 2016, 03:49:46 AM
Since I got the ORCA Restoration book for Christmas I've been itching to find a project reel and try out some of the techniques I've read about. I found a Penn Sea Ford in pretty rough shape on the big auction site. The head plate bushing had broken out and it was pretty much trashed....

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7855_zpsbxcooqc0.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7855_zpsbxcooqc0.jpg.html)

To make it an even uglier prospect, the former owner (I presume), the late John J Bradley, formerly of Washington St., Peekskill, NY, etched his name and address in the head and tail plates. Just to make sure no one stole his reel he put his name on it multiple times...

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7867_zpsxu1m4a97.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7867_zpsxu1m4a97.jpg.html)

The surface damage to the side plates would come off with wet sanding; but that head plate with the messed up bushing was going to be a challenge... here's a closer view of the damage.... it also gives another perspective of the surface of the pinion that faces the bushing....

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7860_zps3qqadkoh.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7860_zps3qqadkoh.jpg.html)

Here  was my plan: I would attempt to rebuild the broken side plate with 5-minute epoxy. I had to think ahead to the final product; the bushing had to be as close to perpendicular to the head plate as possible for reasonable free spool; it isn't likely I'll use the reel, but it would be nice for it to be fully functional as it sits on the shelf. I don't have a great picture of this part, but the part of the head plate that was remaining that would be in direct contact with the bushing retainer was only about 45 degrees around the retainer itself. I found the sweet spot with respect to free spool and placed a drop of super glue on the bushing retainer and it ran down into the area to affix the retainer to the head plate. I held onto the whole thing for a minute or two and let the super glue dry. Step one complete! If you look closely you can see the dried super glue in the next two photos.

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7913_zpswiaklv76.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7913_zpswiaklv76.jpg.html)

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7918_zpsqb5wmeeg.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7918_zpsqb5wmeeg.jpg.html)

For the next several steps I would build up the area around the bushing retainer with 5-minute epoxy. I used the product from Gorilla Glue. I'm sure all 5-minute epoxies will work the same. I learned in the O.R.C.A. book that the addition of bakelite filings to the epoxy would color the epoxy the same color as the side plate. I had picked up a Penn 49 a few months ago, and like almost all the 49's around the plates had swelled and the trim rings cracked. I filed the plates down and installed new trim rings months ago and saved the filings just for this occasion... I was to apply the epoxy in stages and build up the broken side plate. The first stage was just straight epoxy without any filings added.

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7919_zpsycltzfyl.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7919_zpsycltzfyl.jpg.html)

I took care to pay attention to both sides of my project

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7921_zpssx8xcduk.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7921_zpssx8xcduk.jpg.html)

When the 5-minute epoxy is first mixed it is pretty fluidy, but it starts to set up pretty quickly. Before it set up I kept moving and tumbling the side plate so that the epoxy would not sag in any one direction. I only had to do that for a minute or so; it sets up pretty quickly.

I ended up adding epoxy in 3 applications on 3 successive evenings. Each event was more preparation than it was actually applying the epoxy and letting it set up. The key was to build up the side plate structure gradually in phases. I added bakelite filing to the second and third applications of epoxy. Here is another view after the first application

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7922_zpsipbxbi1u.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7922_zpsipbxbi1u.jpg.html)

The second application really built up a lot of the structure of the new sideplate. This was what it looked like when I left it at the end of the second night.

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7935_zpsi3eleqyv.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7935_zpsi3eleqyv.jpg.html)

I forgot to add that I swabbed the surfaces of the bakelite and epoxy with 91% IPA prior to each new epoxy application. It turns out that I didn't add enough filings to the epoxy on the second application; I found out on the third that it takes a lot of filings to really color the epoxy well. This was the end of the the third and final epoxy/filing application; and it sat overnight once again.
(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7938_zpsgjh91uhv.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7938_zpsgjh91uhv.jpg.html)


Tonight I came home and finished the project; I filed down the built-up area flat to match the original build;

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7942_zps5r7eyun9.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7942_zps5r7eyun9.jpg.html)

I then took care of the names and addresses etched with great care into multiple places by wet sanding, starting with 320 grit and working my way up to 2000 grit. I have to say that I'm quite pleased with how this turned out, and quite amazed at how easy this really was; the key was to be patient and build up the structure slowly. It didn't come with a handle. I'm in the market, but don't really know which style handle I should put on it... if you have an opinion I'm all ears..... here's a few final shots of the finished product....

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7946_zpsiy61kc5y.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7946_zpsiy61kc5y.jpg.html)

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7947_zpsyac58g6a.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7947_zpsyac58g6a.jpg.html)

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7952_zpsgukxu0u7.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7952_zpsgukxu0u7.jpg.html)

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7953_zps4fpfonld.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7953_zps4fpfonld.jpg.html)

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7956_zpsn8fviduo.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7956_zpsn8fviduo.jpg.html)

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7963_zpsz2dwcrjj.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7963_zpsz2dwcrjj.jpg.html)

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7956_zpsn8fviduo.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7956_zpsn8fviduo.jpg.html)

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7959_zpsbgtisape.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7959_zpsbgtisape.jpg.html)

I really enjoyed this project; I tested myself, I did something I had never done before, it turned out really well, and I saved an old Seaford from the trash heap!!! Now, who has a handle for this lady???


Sid
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Ron Jones on March 22, 2016, 04:00:12 AM
Looks great!
You have to look real close to see any repair. I wouldn't notice if you hadn't told me. What is the plan for the spool?
Ron
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: cbar45 on March 22, 2016, 04:10:14 AM
Spectacular job Sid!

Thanks for the tip on using bakelite filings to color the epoxy.

I would have gone the easy route and used marbling pigment, that is if they made something that matches..;)

Chad

Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: sdlehr on March 22, 2016, 04:10:25 AM
Quote from: noyb72 on March 22, 2016, 04:00:12 AM
What is the plan for the spool?
Ron
What would you suggest?

Sid
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Superhook on March 22, 2016, 04:10:50 AM
Great save Sid . :)

It is a 1936-38 model so you should have the handle with the hard rubber type knob that imitates the early wooden hour glass style.
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: sdlehr on March 22, 2016, 04:11:50 AM
Oh, and I forgot to add - over 20 seconds free spool!!!!!!!

Sid
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: sdlehr on March 22, 2016, 04:17:35 AM
Quote from: Superhook on March 22, 2016, 04:10:50 AM
Great save Sid . :)

It is a 1936-38 model so you should have the handle with the hard rubber type knob that imitates the early wooden hour glass style.
That's the information I was looking for! Thanks! Still don't have a handle, but I know which one I need now....

The Seaford was made from 1935 to 1940. What makes this one a 1936-38 model?

Sid
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: cbar45 on March 22, 2016, 04:24:37 AM
Sid, If I understand correctly, the bushing retainer was entirely loose from the side-plate and re-set using the superglue?

I have an Ocean City (Bay City) with a chipped handle boss that may be a candidate for the type of repair you showed.

Chad
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Tightlines667 on March 22, 2016, 04:30:06 AM
Excellent job Sid!  I am throughly impressed.  The logo, stand, and waffle clicker help to age it.  Don't have the book in front of me at the moment to give you the specifics.  I don't think I have the handle you need, but someone must.  May require a donor reel.
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: sdlehr on March 22, 2016, 04:31:45 AM
Quote from: cbar45 on March 22, 2016, 04:24:37 AM
Sid, If I understand correctly, the bushing retainer was entirely loose from the side-plate and re-set using the superglue?

I have an Ocean City (Bay City) with a chipped handle boss that may be a candidate for the type of repair you showed.

Chad
That's right, Chad... I lined it up best I could to get decent free spool, then held it in place as the super glue set.... clearly that was the make-or-break step of the whole project. I lucked out.


Sid
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Superhook on March 22, 2016, 05:00:33 AM
Sid,

Yardage on foot started in 36.

Plain Tail pates on most models went to graphics late 38-39 .

If i'm wrong Mike will correct the info .
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: alantani on March 22, 2016, 05:06:00 AM
ok, now THAT is pretty impressive!!!!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: foakes on March 22, 2016, 05:32:11 AM
Hey Doc--

Are you sure your not a Dentist -- instead of a Veterinarian?

That is some pretty artistic filling.

WOW!

I have a Seaford or two -- I will check the loose handles against it -- to see if one is correct.

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: sdlehr on March 22, 2016, 05:56:15 AM
Quote from: foakes on March 22, 2016, 05:32:11 AM
Hey Doc--

Are you sure your not a Dentist -- instead of a Veterinarian?

That is some pretty artistic filling.

WOW!

I have a Seaford or two -- I will check the loose handles against it -- to see if one is correct.

Best,

Fred
Thanks, Fred. Veterinary dentistry is my forte. I have a jaw surgery scheduled for tomorrow (I'm the surgeon, not the patient!) I thought several times how similar this project was to working with dental materials. In fact, I used a dental pick to shape the epoxy on the first application. I would very much appreciate the opportunity to purchase a handle for this reel if it happens that you have the proper one...

Thanks.
Sid
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: alantani on March 22, 2016, 06:07:44 AM
in japanese, sensei means teacher.  it is truly one of the most revered professions in all of japan.  i have created this new member group and i've given it three stars.  yeah, yeah, i know, that and a dollar and you can ride the bus.  but sid lehr and his epoxy side plate post have earned him the first spot.  i wanted to create this group to recognize members of the website that have made significant contributions that show ingenuity, using the resources that are available at hand, thinking out of the box, finding a new solution to an old problem.  i've asked the moderators to keep an eye out for contributions made in this spirit.  again, thank you, sid, a very nice post!  ;D
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: bigggfish on March 22, 2016, 07:24:37 AM
It inspired me to go buy that book!!!!
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Shark Hunter on March 22, 2016, 09:12:20 AM
Great work Sid! ;D
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Reel 224 on March 22, 2016, 09:14:45 AM
Sid: Very impressive work! You get a gold star in my book.

Joe
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Alto Mare on March 22, 2016, 11:04:48 AM
Very nice job on making that reel happy again Sid, now you need to change your sign at the office : bring your pets and  damaged vintage gear ;D.
Useful tip...thanks for sharing .

Sal
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: sdlehr on March 22, 2016, 12:01:50 PM
Thanks for the accolades, everyone! I hope this inspires some of you to do similarly.

Sid
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: STRIPER LOU on March 22, 2016, 12:36:51 PM
Very nice work Sid! You're a very patient man!
..............Lou
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: mike1010 on March 22, 2016, 01:31:53 PM
Beautiful work.
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: sdlehr on March 22, 2016, 01:37:13 PM
Quote from: STRIPER LOU on March 22, 2016, 12:36:51 PM
Very nice work Sid! You're a very patient man!
..............Lou
No, Lou, nothing could be farther from the truth. It killed me to work on this for 15 minutes a night and have to put it down. I kept the long-range goal in mind. I'm learning patience, I don't yet have much of it....

Sid
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: STRIPER LOU on March 22, 2016, 02:07:54 PM
Sid, that's probably a good way to go about it. Kind of minimizes the frustration!
..............lou
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: handi2 on March 22, 2016, 02:15:00 PM
That's a super job Sid
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Bryan Young on March 22, 2016, 03:54:13 PM
Very impressive Sid. The talent on our site is overwhelming to little ol' me.
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Marcq on March 22, 2016, 08:40:46 PM
Yup!!
Great job   8)

Marc..
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Dominick on March 22, 2016, 09:21:29 PM
Sid good job.  You have been elevated to Sensei by the Boso.  I'm not one for patience either.  When I start something I want to see it completed.  It would kill me to work 15 minutes and not see a result.  That's why I don't garden.  The thought of planing a seed and having to wait does not compute.  Dominick
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: swill88 on March 22, 2016, 10:47:05 PM
Great work Sid...

as I was reading your post I was thinking 'veterinary dentistry'... like everybody else I think.

thanks!

steve
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: foakes on March 22, 2016, 11:40:29 PM
This may work, Sid --

If Ray and Michael say it is correct.

This is the old hourglass rubber or some sort of plastic material knob, plus the correct crank nut that mimics a flying saucer with its dome shape.

Nut is NOS, handle is used -- but straight and very decent -- nice marbling in the grip -- black with slight green and yellow swirls.

Also have the old wood ones -- if Mike and Ray think that may be correct.

Let me know what works for your project -- N/C -- just need your address PM'd to make sure -- after you choose.

This is a pretty good used Seaford head sideplate -- and I believe yours looks better.

Best,

Fred

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/4CEBB4F2-7F15-44F6-9A43-7E4CA15F9D15_zps8wvvnq02.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/4CEBB4F2-7F15-44F6-9A43-7E4CA15F9D15_zps8wvvnq02.jpg.html)

(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/foakes1/A23A9934-4C96-4D1A-973E-5BA499FDEEAF_zpsl2djtglu.jpg) (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/foakes1/media/A23A9934-4C96-4D1A-973E-5BA499FDEEAF_zpsl2djtglu.jpg.html)



Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Tightlines667 on March 22, 2016, 11:51:31 PM
Fred,
I believe the one laying upside down in the back, may be the one he is looking for.  Should be the same as the one in this photo...
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: foakes on March 22, 2016, 11:58:50 PM
Could be, John --

However, that one is wood.

Whatever everyone decides on -- if I have it -- will go to Sid.

Could be, I do not have the correct one -- we will see.

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Superhook on March 23, 2016, 01:20:02 AM
It should have the one like John's reel for a 36 .

Fred's would be correct for a 38 but not the hex handle nut . That's for 33-35.

It should have the scalloped edge handle nut and the safety screw.

Sid's reel had the scalloped edged handle nut still attached.
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: coastal_dan on March 23, 2016, 01:47:33 PM
Nice! Job well done sir!  :o
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: sdlehr on March 23, 2016, 02:23:10 PM
So if I get this, the reel is a '35-'38 model, and depending on the handle I can date it to earlier in that period with the handle like John's or later in that period with swirled plastic handle that Fred has... with my scalloped handle nut.... so seeing as there is only one logical choice available at this time (unless someone else has a handle like John's available) I'll graciously accept the handle offered (without the nut, although that's a pretty cool handle nut). Fred, thank you for the offer, I'll PM you my address in a few days, first I'd like to see if Keith (who came to mind first) or anyone else has the handle Ray mentioned and John pictured for us.

Thanks for the kind comments, everyone. I didn't invent this epoxy technique, I just read about it and decided it was something I wanted to try... we all like creating things with our hands.... I'll probably keep and display this reel on a shelf for a long time....

Anyone have a spool for this reel?... it's hard to stop here...

Sid
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Tiddlerbasher on March 23, 2016, 03:21:14 PM
Great job Sid - I must do a crash course in patience ;D
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: sdlehr on March 23, 2016, 03:26:15 PM
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on March 23, 2016, 03:21:14 PM
Great job Sid - I must do a crash course in patience ;D
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: sdlehr on March 23, 2016, 03:32:28 PM
Quote from: cbar45 on March 22, 2016, 04:24:37 AM
I have an Ocean City (Bay City) with a chipped handle boss that may be a candidate for the type of repair you showed.
Chad
Chad, if you want to send the side plate in question I could take a crack at repairing it.... just for the practice. These repairs don't take long (he said, having done exactly one his whole life). Post up a pic, let's see what you've got....

Sid
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Penn Chronology on March 24, 2016, 02:32:55 PM
Sid, you did a great job on your 1938 Sea Ford.

Here is a picture of a 1938 Sea Ford with the correct handle for that year. This handle and handle screw design is used for 1938 only. In 1939 Penn changed to the torpedo handle for the Sea Ford and in 1937, the catalog shows the hex nut handle without the locking nut. This handle is a tough find. it combines the old wood knob style with the new scalloped locking nut design.

The one in John's photo is the hard rubber knob, which is also correct.

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Handles/Penn%20Sea%20Ford/1940%20Penn%20Sea%20Ford%20002%20676%20x%20507_zpssvab9ao5.jpg)
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: sdlehr on March 24, 2016, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: Superhook on March 22, 2016, 04:10:50 AM
Great save Sid . :)

It is a 1936-38 model so you should have the handle with the hard rubber type knob that imitates the early wooden hour glass style.

Quote from: Superhook on March 22, 2016, 05:00:33 AM
Sid,

Yardage on foot started in 36.

Plain Tail pates on most models went to graphics late 38-39 .

If i'm wrong Mike will correct the info .

Quote from: Tightlines666 on March 22, 2016, 11:51:31 PM
Fred,
I believe the one laying upside down in the back, may be the one he is looking for.  Should be the same as the one in this photo...

Quote from: Penn Chronology on March 24, 2016, 02:32:55 PM
Sid, you did a great job on your 1938 Sea Ford.

Here is a picture of a 1938 Sea Ford with the correct handle for that year. This handle and handle screw design is used for 1938 only. In 1939 Penn changed to the torpedo handle for the Sea Ford and in 1937, the catalog shows the hex nut handle without the locking nut. This handle is a tough find. it combines the old wood knob style with the new scalloped locking nut design.

The one in John's photo is the hard rubber knob, which is also correct.

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Handles/Penn%20Sea%20Ford/1940%20Penn%20Sea%20Ford%20002%20676%20x%20507_zpssvab9ao5.jpg)
Thanks, Mike. I'm trying to process all this information. The knob in the photo you posted, is it hard rubber? wood? plastic?  I can't tell from the photo. It seems what gave the age away was the combination of the scalloped handle nut and the plain tail plate. Later models had the scalloped nut but the torpedo handle knob. Earlier had the hex nut. Got it. I'll forget it after lunch, but I think I've got it now  ;D

Sid
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Penn Chronology on March 25, 2016, 02:30:04 AM
QuoteThanks, Mike. I'm trying to process all this information. The knob in the photo you posted, is it hard rubber? wood? plastic?  I can't tell from the photo. It seems what gave the age away was the combination of the scalloped handle nut and the plain tail plate. Later models had the scalloped nut but the torpedo handle knob. Earlier had the hex nut. Got it. I'll forget it after lunch, but I think I've got it now  Grin

The knob is my photo is wood, the knob in John's photo is hard rubber. Plastic or resin knobs do not apply to a 1938 Sea Ford. I am dating your reel in two ways. The tail plate is plain, making it a 1938 or earlier reel. The handle nut is scalloped making it a 1938 or later reel. Being that your reel is built with a plain tail plate and a scalloped handle nut, it cannot be anything other than a 1938 Sea Ford, which would use either my handle knob or John's.
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: sdlehr on March 25, 2016, 04:24:21 AM
Thanks, Mike. That makes it pretty clear and unambiguous. It seems that last week I received a Long Beach 60 from the same era with a handle that I thought might be a match - what do you think? Is this hard rubber or plastic? How can I tell? It doesn't look exactly like John's, I don't think it's wood. It might look a lot more like your wood one.... but the counterbalance is all wrong... drat!(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7965_zpsprvkmm7o.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7965_zpsprvkmm7o.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Tightlines667 on March 25, 2016, 04:27:14 AM
I know you asked Mike, but IMHO.. that one looks to be a suitable 1938 handle.  Now I suppose you are looking for a ca.1938 LB handle ? :)
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Superhook on March 25, 2016, 04:43:17 AM
Sid,

If you look closely you can usually see a line around the circumference on the widest part which indicates a hard rubber .

I can see a ridge of indents on yours so it is hard rubber. Perfect for this reel.

Ray
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: sdlehr on March 25, 2016, 04:44:02 AM
Quote from: Tightlines666 on March 25, 2016, 04:27:14 AM
I know you asked Mike, but IMHO.. that one looks to be a suitable 1938 handle.  Now I suppose you are looking for a ca.1938 LB handle ? :)
That would be nice, and, yes, that's the way this works, right? Now I need a handle for my LB....

Sid

I found this handle on the 80 I did a few months ago; it's wood, and I think has the same counterbalance...but is just a tad shorter than the other handle

(http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah127/sdlehr/Reel%20No_40%20Penn%2080/DSC_7631_zpsnmyicpqg.jpg) (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_40%20Penn%2080/DSC_7631_zpsnmyicpqg.jpg.html)

If I can use this handle I won't need to find one suitable for the LB :D
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: sdlehr on March 25, 2016, 04:45:39 AM
Quote from: Superhook on March 25, 2016, 04:43:17 AM
Sid,

If you look closely you can usually see a line around the circumference on the widest part which indicates a hard rubber .

I can see a ridge of indents on yours so it is hard rubber. Perfect for this reel.

Ray
Thanks Ray!
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Superhook on March 25, 2016, 05:00:07 AM
Sid,
with regards to your #80 . It is correct for an #80.

The wood knob is the same as lots of early reels.  The blade would not be right for your Sea Ford because the coating should be polished chrome and should have a hole for a safety screw for the scalloped edged nut. The counterweight is too small for your Sea Ford. I often wondered how Penn employees got to know so many different parts that were used for different reels in the same Era.

It is correct for the #80 it is on.

Ray
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: Penn Chronology on March 25, 2016, 07:29:28 AM
Sid, I agree with Ray and John. The handle on your Long Beach would be suitable for the 1938 Sea Ford, it seems to be a hard rubber handle. The finish on the hard rubber handle was kind of dull and the handle did not have the hard smooth feel of a resin or catalin plastic handle. Penn used hard rubber knobs because they were cheaper than the wood knobs.
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: sdlehr on March 25, 2016, 02:01:56 PM
Quote from: Penn Chronology on March 25, 2016, 07:29:28 AM
Sid, I agree with Ray and John. The handle on your Long Beach would be suitable for the 1938 Sea Ford, it seems to be a hard rubber handle. The finish on the hard rubber handle was kind of dull and the handle did not have the hard smooth feel of a resin or catalin plastic handle. Penn used hard rubber knobs because they were cheaper than the wood knobs.
Thanks Mike, and everyone. I guess I'm still in need of a handle - for either the Sea Ford or the LB...

Sid
Title: Re: Seaford Renovation
Post by: sdlehr on April 04, 2016, 03:10:09 AM
I've just gone over this info again, as I still do not have a handle for this reel. If you take the info from replies #39 and Mike's picture of a '38 Sea Ford with a wooden handle from reply #40, it would appear that one of Fred's wooden handles would be correct for this reel. Fred, can you send pics of the handles again, those that have the proper counterbalance and wood or hard rubber knobs? I think one of those is likely to be correct now that I have rethought this.

Thanks,
Sid
Title: Re: Seaford Restoration
Post by: Donnyboat on June 01, 2017, 08:44:40 AM
Sid, great work, you really brought that reel back to life, I have been working with an epoxy called Techni glue, part A & part B is the hardener, two parts A to one part B, I like it, as it does not run like most 2 part epoxies, I had it posted from Queensland, Australia to Western Australia, I think there is 500Mls part A, & 250 Mls part b, about AU $ 75.00, if this info can help anyone, takes about 3 Hours to set, but best left over night, I have used 5 Minute araldite, but it is quite runny, cheers Don.
Title: Re: Sea Ford Restoration
Post by: sdlehr on November 25, 2017, 12:11:53 PM
Quote from: Penn Chronology on March 25, 2016, 02:30:04 AMI am dating your reel in two ways. The tail plate is plain, making it a 1938 or earlier reel. The handle nut is scalloped making it a 1938 or later reel.
Mike, I know this post is old, but I'm going through some reels and the '37 catalog, while it shows a picture of a hex handle nut, has a written description that says, "Handle screw locking device". So it appears that the photo and the description are two different reels. Same with the Bridge City on that same page of the catalog.

Sid
Title: Re: Sea Ford Restoration
Post by: Penn Chronology on November 25, 2017, 09:46:47 PM
QuoteMike, I know this post is old, but I'm going through some reels and the '37 catalog, while it shows a picture of a hex handle nut, has a written description that says, "Handle screw locking device". So it appears that the photo and the description are two different reels. Same with the Bridge City on that same page of the catalog.

Not two different reels. Two different descriptions. The pictures in the 1937 brochure are obsolete but the descriptions are mostly reflecting the new locking handle screw. It is the same with the Long Beach, Coronado and Bayside; but, not the Ocean Side. Penn got it straightened out in 1938 adding new renditions with the locking handle screw. Everything is good again one year later.
         
Title: Re: Sea Ford Restoration
Post by: sdlehr on November 25, 2017, 10:01:42 PM
Mike, the point I was making was that you had dated my Sea Ford a year or two ago based on the photo, which you just said is obsolete. We had thought it was a '38, but it would appear the '37 and '38 were the same. Or do I have it wrong? I removed the political reference in your response, we don't do politics or religion here.

Sid
Title: Re: Sea Ford Restoration
Post by: Penn Chronology on November 26, 2017, 07:17:36 AM
QuoteWe had thought it was a '38, but it would appear the '37 and '38 were the same.

Cannot say 100%. In 1937 the description says there is a locking screw for the handle and the picture has a hex screw. Take your choice.

More than likely the 1937 model year produced both.

QuoteMike, the point I was making was that you had dated my Sea Ford a year or two ago based on the photo, which you just said is obsolete.

I stated the rendition of the reel was obsolete because it is the same rendition that Penn has been using since 1934. The fact that I stated it was obsolete is my opinion, which could very well be wrong.
Title: Re: Sea Ford Restoration
Post by: sdlehr on November 26, 2017, 12:24:35 PM
Quote from: Penn Chronology on November 26, 2017, 07:17:36 AM
Cannot say 100%. In 1937 the description says there is a locking screw for the handle and the picture has a hex screw. Take your choice. More than likely the 1937 model year produced both.

Yeah, I'm going to go with the hex nut at the beginning of the year and the scalloped nut at the end, but like you said, not sure if it is right.... which would make this Sea Ford a Late '37 or '38 model.

Thanks.

Sid