Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn - Vintage => Topic started by: mo65 on July 31, 2016, 08:31:07 PM

Title: Handles
Post by: mo65 on July 31, 2016, 08:31:07 PM
Hi Sid,
I was looking for a "handle info" thread around here...found quite a few questions about "will this handle fit a Shimano" or "will that handle fit an Abu"...but no kind of history about Penn handles through the years. I think this area would be a great place to have such a thread.
I have a handle question...and for lack of a better place to ask(this vintage forum is my best chance of an answer)I'll just ask here and you can move it to a more appropriate location I may have missed. Maybe even make it the first victim of a new handle info thread. ;D
My quandary, probably a simple one, is I have a handle the same size as a #24-155 but stamped #24-60. It has the older football shaped knob as opposed to the newer torpedo knob. Did this handle pre-date the 155 reel? Seems not to be likely...as it is numbered. I'd sleep better knowing the answer to this question, and many other handle questions too!  8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: sdlehr on August 01, 2016, 04:06:54 AM
Thanks, Mo. I was thinking of a handle thread similar to my recent spool thread (actually, better, the spool thread has a lot of pictures but little information). Here's a handle thread for you  ;D
Sid
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: foakes on August 01, 2016, 04:27:35 AM
Here is a blue handle on a little old 180 --

Best,

Fred

Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on August 01, 2016, 03:02:43 PM
Quote from: sdlehr on August 01, 2016, 04:06:54 AM
I was thinking of a handle thread similar to my recent spool thread (actually, better, the spool thread has a lot of pictures but little information). Here's a handle thread for you

Thanks Sid. I was just thinking...you should sticky those spool and catalog threads also...so they can be found easy. Many of our questions can be answered by surfing these threads that focus on individual parts and items associated with the reels.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: alantani on August 01, 2016, 04:00:52 PM
you gotta love these guys....   ;D

https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Handles.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Handles.aspx)

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on August 01, 2016, 04:07:52 PM
Quote from: alantani on August 01, 2016, 04:00:52 PM
you gotta love these guys....   ;D

https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Handles.aspx

Yep...a very handy work there...use it almost daily...but no mention of a #24-60 handle.  :-\
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Bill B on August 02, 2016, 01:36:20 AM
Got to love the wife, she was doing a dress fitting for a friend that is getting married soon and the bride to be wanted to pay her, but the wife would not take any money, but while I was there at the house I spotted this 114 in the garage collecting dust and jokingly said I would take the reel as payment  ;D, wouldn't you know it the bride said sure :o....well anyway the reel looks all original except for the handle, but it got me thinking, Penn sold aftermarket accessories, could this stainless steel 6" handle be a Penn handle?  Not really hopeful, but it sure has some leverage....any opinions?  Bill

(http://i.imgur.com/SP6Te8z.jpg)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on August 03, 2016, 05:17:29 AM
This has the potential of become a great resource. I will start it out with a little handle info and we could carry this further as time allows.

Early Penn Senator counter weighted handle and their blade length. These handles are late 1930's into the 1950's.

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Handles/1930s%20amp%2040%20Counter%20Weighted%20Handles--1%20007%20768%20x%201024_zpsqwd2kjjo.jpg)

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Handles/1930s%20amp%2040s%20Counter%20Weighted%20Handles%20004%20676%20x%20507_zps9tfkl4hr.jpg)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on August 03, 2016, 05:31:36 AM
Good deal Mike...that is what I had in mind. Maybe you can answer my original question here. What's up with the #24-60? Was it used before the #24-155? They appear to be the same size...only difference is the number. Like Curly said..."I try to think, but nuttin' happens"

Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on August 03, 2016, 07:53:10 AM
QuoteGood deal Mike...this is what I had in mind. Maybe you can answer my original question here. What's up with the #24-60? Was it used before the #24-155? They appear to be the same size...only difference is the number. Like Curly said..."I try to think, but nuttin' happens"

I think it is just a style thing. The handles are the same size. Of course the Long Beach came first; but the Long Beach and the 155 both date back to the 1930's and they both basically had the same handle back them, long before part numbers. Never really thought too much about it. The thing to do is, get one Long Beach and one Beachmaster and swap the handles. And there lies the answer....................
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on August 03, 2016, 02:59:53 PM
 At some point Penn must have discontinued the #24-60 and the#24-155 survived as the handle used on a gazoodle of models. My guess is the #24-60 bit the dust when the Longbeach received the #24-66 handle.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on August 04, 2016, 04:56:28 AM
QuoteAt some point Penn must have discontinued the #24-60 and the#24-155 survived as the handle used on a gazoodle of models. My guess is the #24-60 bit the dust when the Longbeach received the #24-66 handle.

Don't know about that. I always figured the 24-66 handle was made for the larger Long Beach reels. They all interchange, so when they were discontinued is a hard call. Today all the part numbers are still listed. If you want a correct handle for a Long Beach, you order a 24-60. We are really splitting hairs here. They are pretty much the same.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: bluefish69 on August 04, 2016, 12:59:42 PM
I've been putting 24-66 handles on LB reels since the early 60's. been putting them on the CC reels that I build. I might change some if I get my hands on some of Lou's round custom handles.

Mike
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on August 04, 2016, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: Penn Chronology on August 04, 2016, 04:56:28 AM
If you want a correct handle for a Long Beach, you order a 24-60.

There isn't a single mention of a #24-60 on Scott's entire site...that is how I ended up on this mind numbing subject in the first place! :D This is how I came up with the theory #24-60 was an early Longbeach handle. All the Longbeaches I've had (60's to present) had a #24-66...regardless of model. Scott's lists the #24-66 as the handle for all of them. Oophs...except the 259 Live Bait Caster...they list a #24-155 for that one.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on August 04, 2016, 02:18:07 PM
Some of those early knob colors are so cool, like the green/yellow swirl. It's an entirely different green than the later green/white swirl. And that "rootbeer" brown...was that originally that shade? Or did it fade from an orange or red? These are the questions that have plagued mankind for centuries... ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: basto on August 04, 2016, 11:21:52 PM
I think it is interesting the way the counterweight and handgrip are attached on opposite sides of the blade in different reels.
That is to say some are on the down curve of the "S" shape blade and some on the up curve.
Did anyone understand that???
Basto
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: swill88 on August 04, 2016, 11:24:15 PM
Quote from: basto on August 04, 2016, 11:21:52 PM
I think it is interesting the way the counterweight and handgrip are attached on opposite sides of the blade in different reels.
That is to say some are on the down curve of the "S" shape blade and some on the up curve.
Did anyone understand that???
Basto

does it matter which way the blade is curved?
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: basto on August 04, 2016, 11:28:31 PM
No, not at all. Just making an observation. I think the curved blade is a very beautiful design. Much more stylish than a straight one IMO.
Basto
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on August 04, 2016, 11:30:12 PM
Quote from: basto on August 04, 2016, 11:21:52 PMI think it is interesting the way the counterweight and handgrip are attached on opposite sides of the blade in different reels.
That is to say some are on the down curve of the "S" shape blade and some on the up curve.
Did anyone understand that???]

I had talked about this with other collectors. I suspect that the mounting of the counterweights and handle knobs to the blades was random. That is why there is no rhyme or reason to how the curve is in relation to the reel. It is just how they were built by the individual worker. I do not feel it makes a difference to performance.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on August 11, 2016, 03:37:38 PM
 I picked up this unused handle on the cheap, and to the best of my ability, I believe it's a #24-12LT. As can be seen by the photo...no part number...so maybe someone can verify it. Whatever it is, it should make a great power handle for a Mag 10/Surfmaster 100/Squidder 146 sized reel.  8)

Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on August 16, 2016, 02:48:41 PM
I keep seeing the 1938 pear shaped handle knob referred to as "resin"...but I don't see the '39 and later torpedo knob called this. Are they different materials?  ???
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on August 17, 2016, 06:51:17 AM
Quote
I keep seeing the 1938 pear shaped handle knob referred to as "resin"...but I don't see the '39 and later torpedo knob called this. Are they different materials?  Huh?


Posted on: August 11, 2016, 07:37:38 AM
Posted by: mo65 

I am not 100% on this; but, I believe the knobs everyone refers to as "Resin" are probably Cast Phenolic and the Torpedo knobs are Molded Catalan. Phenolics, Catalin and Bakelite are all the same family of plastics; but, have different properties based on their manufacturing process and chemical make up. Fillers are also used in the Casting process to add strength. I believe the pear shaped early handle were cast phenolics and basically a stronger plastic than the Torpedo handle base material. If we have a Chemical engineer in the group, I am sure he can help me out here.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on September 13, 2016, 08:49:19 PM
Could someone explain the concept of the three mounting positions on the Penn power handles? I've seen a few descriptions in other places but there was conflict among the answers.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: RowdyW on September 13, 2016, 09:11:31 PM
Outer hole more leverage, inner hole more speed, middle hole a little of both worlds.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on September 14, 2016, 07:35:49 PM
Quote from: TARFU on August 02, 2016, 01:36:20 AM
Any opinions?  Bill

(http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj632/Fubarciw/101_1962_1.jpg)

 An interesting handle for sure Bill. I've been searching for one...and so far the handle in this link is as close as I've come. I've seen several of these, maybe yours is someones rendition of this.

      http://www.ebay.com/itm/172333954022?_trksid=p2045573.m570.l5999&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI172333954022.N36.S2.R1.TR7
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Bill B on September 14, 2016, 07:52:32 PM
MO, Im thinking aftermarket.  The knob is little more that a piece of broom stick, but research has shown the reel and pole were sold as a package deal with a rail plate mounted on the pole so Im thinking the shop that put the package together may have replaced the handle also.   Bill
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: sdlehr on September 16, 2016, 06:58:50 PM
Quote from: mo65 on September 13, 2016, 08:49:19 PM
Could someone explain the concept of the three mounting positions on the Penn power handles? I've seen a few descriptions in other places but there was conflict among the answers.
Rudy's answer was correct. The physics of the situation is about the length of the lever arm and the torque differential between the different lever arm lengths. More power (torque) with the longer handle, more speed with the shorter handle.

Sid
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on September 16, 2016, 08:27:37 PM
Quote from: RowdyW on September 13, 2016, 09:11:31 PM
Outer hole more leverage, inner hole more speed, middle hole a little of both worlds.
Quote from: sdlehr on September 16, 2016, 06:58:50 PM
Rudy's answer was correct. The physics of the situation is about the length of the lever arm and the torque differential between the different lever arm lengths. More power (torque) with the longer handle, more speed with the shorter handle.

Thanks fellas...I figured as much...but I feel more comfortable hearing it from you guys. Your help and advise is much appreciated.  8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: RowdyW on September 22, 2016, 02:24:27 AM
Quote from: Penn Chronology on August 04, 2016, 11:30:12 PM
Quote from: basto on August 04, 2016, 11:21:52 PMI think it is interesting the way the counterweight and handgrip are attached on opposite sides of the blade in different reels.
That is to say some are on the down curve of the "S" shape blade and some on the up curve.
Did anyone understand that???]

I had talked about this with other collectors. I suspect that the mounting of the counterweights and handle knobs to the blades was random. That is why there is no rhyme or reason to how the curve is in relation to the reel. It is just how they were built by the individual worker. I do not feel it makes a difference to performance.
Is there a possibility that the way handles are switched around over the years that the handles with the up curve were originally for left hand reels? I've been looking at photos from SB&T & the lefty reels have the handles curve down. If switched to a right hand reel the curve would face up. Food for thought. Best reason I can think of. Maybe that's why there are fewer original handles with the curve up when mounted on a right hand reel, they have been switched.            Rudy
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on September 22, 2016, 12:50:13 PM
QuoteQuote from: Penn Chronology on August 04, 2016, 03:30:12 PM


Quote from: basto on August 04, 2016, 03:21:52 PM

I think it is interesting the way the counterweight and handgrip are attached on opposite sides of the blade in different reels.
That is to say some are on the down curve of the "S" shape blade and some on the up curve.
Did anyone understand that???]

I had talked about this with other collectors. I suspect that the mounting of the counterweights and handle knobs to the blades was random. That is why there is no rhyme or reason to how the curve is in relation to the reel. It is just how they were built by the individual worker. I do not feel it makes a difference to performance.
Is there a possibility that the way handles are switched around over the years that the handles with the up curve were originally for left hand reels? I've been looking at photos from SB&T & the lefty reels have the handles curve down. If switched to a right hand reel the curve would face up. Food for thought. Best reason I can think of. Maybe that's why there are fewer original handles with the curve up when mounted on a right hand reel, they have been switched.            Rudy

I believe that if Penn would have used the curve of he handle as a criteria for left or right hand mounting it would reflect in the part numbers. I do not believe there is any difference in the build style of right or left hand drive handle. The curve being up or down is simply how the handles wound up because of the fact that the handles are assembled by humans. Humans install randomness into everything they do. I just looked at four Senator 9/0 handle blades from the 1930's and 40's. Three of them have the knob side curve going up and one is curved down. There is no rhyme to this reason. IMHO
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on October 06, 2016, 04:47:36 PM
   Here's an elusive handle for sure...this is one of Ted's beauties. I always figured someone had to make an "end of the day" blue torpedo. Also...the knob is residing on that #24-60 handle that has been eluding definition. I was relieved to see Mike tracked it down as an early 50's handle...only used a few years and replaced by the #24-155. Thanks for sharing the pic and info guys! 8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Maxed Out on October 06, 2016, 08:01:35 PM
  I'll keep my eyes peeled for you Mo, I'm sure there are more out there.

 Here is another shot of the blue swirl knob next to a green swirl.

 Ted
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Tightlines667 on October 06, 2016, 08:32:55 PM
Thats a special one there Ted.  Special number, special color, in a special collection.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on October 07, 2016, 03:35:59 PM
   It's hard for me to concentrate after Ted's handle. What was I?...oh yeah...man, that blue swirl is smokin'! I've not had nearly as many reels pass through my hands as the gurus here, but this is the first "translucent" handle knob I've seen. Is it something common?
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Bill B on October 07, 2016, 04:36:55 PM
Mo....that's a first for me....LIKE IT ;D   Bill
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Maxed Out on October 07, 2016, 04:52:54 PM
I have seen very few translucent Penn knobs, but they do exist. It's like finding a 3 legged buffalo head nickel. Nice score Mo. That's a keeper for sure !!

  Ted
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: The Great Maudu on October 08, 2016, 06:06:28 PM
According to Penn historian and expert Mike C this Silver Beach handle came from the shop of Frankenstein's castle after a wild TGIF party
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Maxed Out on October 08, 2016, 08:10:54 PM
Quote from: The Great Maudu on October 08, 2016, 06:06:28 PM
According to Penn historian and expert Mike C this Silver Beach handle came from the shop of Frankenstein's castle after a wild TGIF party


  Ha Ha, I would have to agree with all the above......I'd say all the forensic evidence points towards long armed employees at that party  :D :D
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on October 08, 2016, 08:51:09 PM
   Holy Cannoli...each end is in a different zip code...Zoinks!

Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Bill B on October 09, 2016, 05:19:23 PM
Aftermarket handles from a 114 and 114H, next to a standard 114H handle.  The top is a 6" aluminum blade with an aluminum handle, the second is 6" chromed steel blade and wooden handle.  From what I can gather the aftermarket handles were standard fare for the old California rockcod days,when dropping 3lbs of lead and 5+ ganion setups, to 400'....just pure cranking power....  Bill

(https://i.imgur.com/a2o8gpr.jpg)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mizmo67 on October 13, 2016, 06:53:41 PM
Quote from: mo65 on July 31, 2016, 08:31:07 PM
My quandary, probably a simple one, is I have a handle the same size as a #24-155 but stamped #24-60. It has the older football shaped knob as opposed to the newer torpedo knob. Did this handle pre-date the 155 reel? Seems not to be likely...as it is numbered. I'd sleep better knowing the answer to this question, and many other handle questions too!  8)

Parts that were made and discontinued before we ever got into the parts business have not all found their way into the online system.

The oldest conventional parts cross reference in my office binder that I have is 1950, and that listed a 24-66 for the 60 reel, not 24-60, so it would have to be older than 1950.

When I look back at a 1948 catalog..the parts page doesn't even have part numbers listed on it.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on October 13, 2016, 07:03:54 PM
Quote from: mizmo67 on October 13, 2016, 06:53:41 PM
The oldest conventional parts cross reference in my office binder that I have is 1950, and that listed a 24-66 for the 60 reel, not 24-60, so it would have to be older than 1950.

   That's what I've been thinking Mo...I have a hunch the larger #24-66 came along at the same time as the plate change...which was around '50 if I remember correctly. Thanks for taking time to investigate.  8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mizmo67 on October 13, 2016, 07:27:59 PM
Glad to help :)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Deepennz on November 12, 2016, 09:30:55 PM
Hi there - I am after information on the counterweight on the handles. I recently acquired two 160's , one with an amber handle, and the other with an attractive amber/dark green swirl.
Both reels have no part numbers. The amber handled reel has a solid counterweight without the two rings. It is also smaller than the usual counterweight. The other, dark handled reel has
two rings on the counterweight, but it too is smaller than the ordinary Penn c/weight.
I can find no info in either of Mike C's two books but the same c/weight is shown on page 93 of Mike C's Chronological History book. Any discussion/information on the different c/weights and their history/year they ceased production etc would be reely appreciated.

Cheers
Martin
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Bill B on November 12, 2016, 10:10:40 PM
Martin, if you could post a picture that would be a great help.....thx Bill
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Bill B on December 19, 2016, 07:41:23 PM
Would anyone happen to have a basic timeline of the different handle shapes......I know there is no absolute but the introduction of a shape maybe a starting place...I know there are pear, sharp torpedo, blunt torpedo, flat rubber, large ribbed torpedo and smooth torpedo (larger senators) and maybe more.....I am not looking for what reels they were attached to, but just an introduction date.....Bill
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on December 20, 2016, 04:11:14 PM
      I'd love to have a basic timeline for reference too Bill, but with Penn being so famous for being frugal it would be difficult at best. So many times they have introduced "budget models" just to use up old handle stock...resulting in timeline overlaps. Perhaps just a chart stating the first known appearance of the many knob variations could be worked up. Maybe if Mike gets bored sometime he could do it. 8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on December 22, 2016, 06:58:01 AM
QuoteInsert Quote

      I'd love to have a basic timeline for reference too Bill, but with Penn being so famous for being frugal it would be difficult at best. So many times they have introduced "budget models" just to use up old handle stock...resulting in timeline overlaps. Perhaps just a chart stating the first known appearance of the many knob variations could be worked up. Maybe if Mike gets bored sometime he could do it.

Bored,,, ha, I do not have time to be bored.............<:O)      Soon my Early Penn Source book will be available in the softcover at the Whitefish Press. I have scanned every page of the first 25 years of Penn catalogs and published them in this source book. It will be a large reference book and you will be able to see the evolution year by year of the handles and build styles of the first 25 years of Penn reels.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Bill B on December 22, 2016, 04:57:06 PM
Anxiously awaiting the latest edition....I am hoping Santa brings the Blue Book (2nd Volume) this year.....Bill
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on December 22, 2016, 05:06:17 PM
   I already ordered the new book...can't wait to see it.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Decker on January 06, 2017, 09:51:01 PM
Can anyone tell me how to mount a replacement knob on a penn handle?   I see knobs for sale on ebay, but the sellers can't ell me how to mount them.  My guess is that there is a brass insert that gets peened into the knob shaft...

Is there another thread?

Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on January 06, 2017, 10:05:13 PM
Quote from: Decker on January 06, 2017, 09:51:01 PM
Can anyone tell me how to mount a replacement knob on a penn handle?   

   This sounds like a question for Fred. I'm sure someone will have an answer...I've often wonder about this myself. :-\
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on January 09, 2017, 06:11:11 AM
I believe they are mounted into a small type of press or screw vice designed to squeeze the rivet. If you try to peen it with any kind of hammer you may damage the knob.

Hope Fred has a better answer.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: BryanC on January 09, 2017, 01:18:49 PM
Irish Jigger described how he replaced Penn knobs on this thread:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1021.0
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Decker on January 09, 2017, 02:48:41 PM
Quote from: BryanC on January 09, 2017, 01:18:49 PM
Irish Jigger described how he replaced Penn knobs on this thread:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1021.0

Irish Jigger gives a very brief and colorful description of the process on that thread:

Quote from: Irish Jigger on June 24, 2010, 09:52:57 PM
I was able to buy replacement Penn torpedo handle knobs in different colours in the UK a few years back. They came with the brass spindle attached and the knurled oil insert separate for fitting later. The method of fitting was to remove the loose handle knob/spindle and fit the replacement one. Then grip  a 3/16 in dia pin punch in the vice to act as an anvil when riveting the new spindle  to the old handle. Finally fit the oil insert to the handle knob.

Regarding loose handles,you could remove the oil insert from the loose handle and re rivet the spindle as described above. I don't think the oil insert would not be worth refitting!

American translation of the last sentence: " I think the oil insert would be worth refitting!"  ;D

This doesn't give much detail about replacing the rivet.  The ones I have seen at auction come with the "oil insert"  and knob shaft attached to the knob.  Sounds like inserting the rivet requires a carefully controlled process.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: foakes on January 09, 2017, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: mo65 on January 06, 2017, 10:05:13 PM
Quote from: Decker on January 06, 2017, 09:51:01 PM
Can anyone tell me how to mount a replacement knob on a penn handle?  

  This sounds like a question for Fred. I'm sure someone will have an answer...I've often wonder about this myself. :-\

Sorry, Guys --

As long as I have a ready supply of most handles from continuing to strip down old reels -- I do not take the time to work these over -- so others with more experience will need to add their expertise.

Someday I may have to -- but for today -- I just pull another crank out of the scrap bins.

I have done this before with mixed results -- but for the extra time taken -- I could have completed another reel restoration/service.

Gotta just keep the line moving.

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on January 10, 2017, 02:36:19 AM
I believe I have posted this photo before; but, it may really be appropriate in this thread to do it again.

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/pephotos/PennSenatorworks_zpskduuefgv.jpg)

This old time Penn mechanic is at a Repair Station at the plant. To the right are two special vices on the bench with Penn counterweighted handles set up on the vice screw. There are handle knobs in the part bins. I believe those two vices are used to squeeze the handle rivets. I am not 100%; but, it looks like they could be the answer.

The large handle on the vice is a 12/0 rose wood handle that would be considered a rare piece today.

In the lower left corner of the photo is a sort of anvil on the bench. That may also be part of the answer.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Decker on January 10, 2017, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Penn Chronology on January 10, 2017, 02:36:19 AM
I believe I have posted this photo before; but, it may really be appropriate in this thread to do it again.

What a great photo, worth 10,000 words!  Thank you!
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on January 11, 2017, 07:08:51 AM
QuoteWhat a great photo, worth 10,000 words!  Thank you!

Happy to add my two cents!
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: ez2cdave on February 11, 2017, 04:24:44 AM
Quote from: mo65 on September 14, 2016, 07:35:49 PM

(http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj632/Fubarciw/101_1962_1.jpg)

 An interesting handle for sure Bill. I've been searching for one...and so far the handle in this link is as close as I've come. I've seen several of these, maybe yours is someones rendition of this.

[/quote]

I have one of those handles in my hand . . . Still searching for one ?

Tight Lines !
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: ez2cdave on February 11, 2017, 05:07:09 AM
Did some searching throught my parts . . .

A Red Knobbed 24-85 . . . A 24-155 (for reference) . . . 24-60 with Amber knob ? ? ?

Title: Re: Handles
Post by: ez2cdave on February 11, 2017, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: ez2cdave on February 11, 2017, 04:24:44 AM
Quote from: mo65 on September 14, 2016, 07:35:49 PM

(http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj632/Fubarciw/101_1962_1.jpg)

 An interesting handle for sure Bill. I've been searching for one...and so far the handle in this link is as close as I've come. I've seen several of these, maybe yours is someones rendition of this.


I have one of those handles in my hand . . . Still searching for one ?

Tight Lines !
[/quote]

I can measure the handle, if needed . . .

Tight Lines !
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Bill B on February 11, 2017, 06:53:02 PM
Looks damn near the same as mine....hummmm so these are starting to look like production aftermarket parts....mine came on a California rock cod rig....any history on yours?
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: ez2cdave on February 12, 2017, 12:14:03 AM
Quote from: TARFU on February 11, 2017, 06:53:02 PM
Looks damn near the same as mine....hummmm so these are starting to look like production aftermarket parts....mine came on a California rock cod rig....any history on yours?

I don't have any background info . . . The handle came from an eBay reel, but nothing special about the reel.

Tight Lines !
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: RowdyW on February 12, 2017, 01:13:43 AM
I've got one of those handles too. It came on a reel from ebay. Mine has a straight plastic or bakelite handle on it. I tossed it in my project box for further use someday.  ::)     Rudy
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: ez2cdave on February 12, 2017, 02:34:55 AM
Quote from: RowdyW on February 12, 2017, 01:13:43 AM
I've got one of those handles too. It came on a reel from ebay. Mine has a straight plastic or bakelite handle on it. I tossed it in my project box for further use someday.  ::)     Rudy

Post up a pic, if you have time !

Tight Lines !
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: richard on May 12, 2017, 11:17:19 AM

   All my "small Penns"  505,500,140,155,180,26
, have handles that curve downwards,with the locking
screw on the "handle side" of the crank.
Only one has the locking screw on the end with the
counterbalance weight.
Any thoughts appreciated Gentlemen? :-\
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Bill B on May 12, 2017, 07:47:04 PM
Richard, as best as I can figure out, Penn handles were made every which way, including up.....we have found the curves to point down towards the knob, up towards the knob, (when viewed with the knob at 7 o'clock) so it seems that the lock screw could be on the counter weight end or knob end depending on how the handle was assembled. Checking through my reels, all but one (a later JM 500) have the locking screw on the handle. The odd ball JM has the screw on the counter balance. My DelMar 286 has a reversed curve, but the screw is on the handle.  Bill
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: richard on May 15, 2017, 11:33:46 AM
Thanks for the explanation TARFU.
I kind of assumed they would be held in jigs for assembly,
and therefore all the same way round...
Friday afternoon self expression in Philadelphia eh? ;Cheers.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on June 24, 2017, 05:54:15 PM
   Could someone tell me what was the largest production counterbalanced handle Penn made? If not too much trouble maybe post a pic of it beside...say a #24-66...for us curious students.  8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: sdlehr on June 24, 2017, 06:04:39 PM
Not sure if its the largest made, but the largest in my collection are on my 12/0 Senators (which are the largest in my collection. The 10/0 would have had the same handle). The catalog pictures of the first 14/0 and 16/0 Senators didn't have counterbalanced handles. Lots of pics of these in Mike's blue book.

Sid
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on June 24, 2017, 09:36:36 PM
Top handle is the largest of the Penn Counter Weighted handles.

(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Handles/1930s%20amp%2040%20Counter%20Weighted%20Handles--1%20007%20768%20x%201024_zpsqwd2kjjo.jpg)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on June 24, 2017, 11:08:48 PM
   I had a feeling that 12/0 was the one...was checking it out in the earlier post on this thread. Also that 49 handle at the bottom gives a nice size comparison...she's a big'un alright! Thanks fellas.  8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Swami805 on August 03, 2017, 04:37:17 AM
Was looking for some info on the handle, it has an aluminum knob. It came off a 155 with no part numbers and the handle has a coin edge on the counter weight and no number as well. Just wondering how long penn made them out of aluminum. Did the handle lady turn these too?  Thanks
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on August 03, 2017, 06:34:56 AM
QuoteWas looking for some info on the handle, it has an aluminum knob. It came off a 155 with no part numbers and the handle has a coin edge on the counter weight and no number as well. Just wondering how long penn made them out of aluminum. Did the handle lady turn these too?  Thanks

As far as I know, Penn did not make these handle knobs out of aluminum. This would be made outside of the factory or it is an experimental piece.

I have made some inquires to a former Penn CEO about the handle turnings, hope for a response soon.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: ez2cdave on August 03, 2017, 01:12:36 PM
Quote from: Swami805 on August 03, 2017, 04:37:17 AM
Was looking for some info on the handle, it has an aluminum knob. It came off a 155 with no part numbers and the handle has a coin edge on the counter weight and no number as well. Just wondering how long penn made them out of aluminum. Did the handle lady turn these too?  Thanks

Wow . . . I have never seen a Penn handle with an aluminum knob, except for aftermarket ones !

I suggest that you contact Penn, send them the pics, and see what info they may have.

Very cool and, likely very rare, if it was made by Penn !

Tight Lines !
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on August 03, 2017, 03:31:42 PM
   That's some find Swami! Very interesting piece! 8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: oc1 on August 03, 2017, 08:19:32 PM
If that's a one-off, it is a very nice one-off.
-steve
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Decker on August 03, 2017, 08:52:02 PM
I sold this one to a member recently.  Aluminum football shaped knob on aluminum arm; looked like Accurate.  Sorry for the bad picture.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Swami805 on August 03, 2017, 10:48:06 PM
Here's a few more pictures best I could get with this iPhone. Fit and finish is too nice to be a home made job I would be suprised if it's not penn.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Superhook on August 04, 2017, 02:18:21 AM
The more pointed torp/football shaped knobs are seen on the early coin edged counterweight handles. You do see some of these early knobs on the later handles with the continuous circumference lines around the smaller counterweights. But this alloy later fat / rounded shape is on the later handles. I can't recall seeing them on the earlier coin edged handles like this one. It does not run true to the time frame .

If the knob was replaced , then the peening was not disturbed  , just pushed onto the shaft from the front. IMHO. Neat piece and the knob will never crack.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Crow on August 10, 2017, 09:06:25 PM
I've a question on the handles / knobs, that I haven't been able to find an answer for, by cruzin' the topics.....is it possible to *safely* remove the oiler from the knob , without damaging the knob ? I'm thinking a metal screw might "grag" the edges of the hole, and work as a puller?  I have a couple handles with the *riveted*, or "peened" end that is loose. I assume that , with the oiler out, a pin punch could be used to "buck" the end of the shaft, so the other end can be re riveted. ???. And, as a follow up question...is there a source for the "oilers" ? I don't see them as a "buyable" part at Scott's.  Thanks !!
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on August 10, 2017, 09:27:55 PM
Quote from: Crow on August 10, 2017, 09:06:25 PM
Is it possible to *safely* remove the oiler from the knob , without damaging the knob ?

   This question has been asked a few times. For the most part, since there are no sources for these knob components, its gonna be cheaper and easier to just buy another handle. Unless your handle is a very rare model, eBay or Scott's should have what you need. 8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on August 10, 2017, 11:24:57 PM
   Here's a handle discussion that started over on the "Penn Reels-Just As You Find Them" thread...figured it would be better to delve into it here. The early #24-109 handle appears to have been offered in both double paddle and counterbalanced versions.

(http://)(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4341/36443703036_342a8c4a24_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xwpvew)P8101748 (https://flic.kr/p/Xwpvew) by Mike Shaver (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152132672@N02/), on Flickr
 
  As you can see by this second photo the only difference is one side got either a counterbalance or a knob.

(http://)(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4435/36321507652_3981160bfa_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XkBdNy)P8101749 (https://flic.kr/p/XkBdNy) by Mike Shaver (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152132672@N02/), on Flickr

  JRD mentioned his counterbalanced #24-109 was hard to read...almost looked like #24-100. Well, mine is the same way, but if you use the zoom feature(click on photo or number at bottom left of photo) you'll see a faint impression of a "9" on the top handle.

(http://)(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4332/36321508152_6506a4fd0d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XkBdXb)P8101752 (https://flic.kr/p/XkBdXb) by Mike Shaver (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152132672@N02/), on Flickr

  I believe these counterbalanced versions of this handle must have only been used on very early 109 reels...if even at all. It seems to have been used mostly on the 180 reel. I've never ran across a 109 with this counterbalanced handle, but I sure have converted some to it. It's my preferred version of the two. 8)

Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Maxed Out on November 29, 2017, 10:00:12 PM
 
Cool knobs Mo, I like the cb style too

  The 1st 109's had smooth tapered knobs that resembled a miniaturized fish bonker or baseball bat. Around 1950 the knob changed to the washboard tapered knob that had oil port on the end. Sometime in 1960's they stopped putting in the oil ports on those knobs. I prefer the ones with oil port, but the ones without work just fine.

  Here is the earliest style 109 knob installed on a late 50's 109

 Ted
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Decker on November 29, 2017, 10:25:13 PM
I found this knob on a Baymaster 80.   Has the oil port and counterbalance.  Not sure of the number stamped on the back.  Apologies for the lack of focus.

I've never seen those smooth knob that Ted is showing.  It is a treat to see rare stuff.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Maxed Out on December 18, 2017, 10:02:19 PM
Quote from: mo65 on August 11, 2016, 03:37:38 PM
I picked up this unused handle on the cheap, and to the best of my ability, I believe it's a #24-12LT. As can be seen by the photo...no part number...so maybe someone can verify it. Whatever it is, it should make a great power handle for a Mag 10/Surfmaster 100/Squidder 146 sized reel.  8)



Mo, I'm curious if you ever concluded which reel your handle fits. The handle looks to me like it fits a 113H, and the part number would be 45GLS. I bought one with no part number and it looks to be ezachary same as yours  ;D ;D

  Ted
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on December 19, 2017, 04:17:54 PM
Quote from: Maxed Out on December 18, 2017, 10:02:19 PM
Quote from: mo65 on August 11, 2016, 03:37:38 PM
I picked up this unused handle on the cheap, and to the best of my ability, I believe it's a #24-12LT. As can be seen by the photo...no part number...so maybe someone can verify it. Whatever it is, it should make a great power handle for a Mag 10/Surfmaster 100/Squidder 146 sized reel.  8)



Mo, I'm curious if you ever concluded which reel your handle fits. The handle looks to me like it fits a 113H, and the part number would be 45GLS. I bought one with no part number and it looks to be ezachary same as yours  ;D ;D

  Ted

   There's a handle Penn made for the 113H that looks just like these, only a larger mounting hole. My handle won't fit a 113H, it has the smaller mounting hole. I bought a #24-12LT from Scott's just to compare...and sure enough...my un-numbered handle is identical to the #24-12LT short of the numbers. It looks real sweet on this narrowed 250 Surfy! 8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: sdlehr on December 21, 2017, 10:59:42 PM
Picked up this Delmar 285 on the cheap just for this handle I've not seen before. It's numbered, and it looks round in cross-section in the photo, but it's football shaped. I'll replace the photo later if I get a chance. Numbered, no oil port, just apparently pressed onto the shaft.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on December 22, 2017, 02:51:00 AM
QuotePicked up this Delmar 285 on the cheap just for this handle I've not seen before. It's numbered, and it looks round in cross-section in the photo, but it's football shaped. I'll replace the photo later if I get a chance. Numbered, no oil port, just apparently pressed onto the shaft.

""End of Day"" handle made in the 1950's. Yours  is only the second one I have seen. The other is one I have on a 1950's Penn Squidder 140.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: ez2cdave on December 22, 2017, 02:58:32 AM
Quote from: Penn Chronology on December 22, 2017, 02:51:00 AM
QuotePicked up this Delmar 285 on the cheap just for this handle I've not seen before. It's numbered, and it looks round in cross-section in the photo, but it's football shaped. I'll replace the photo later if I get a chance. Numbered, no oil port, just apparently pressed onto the shaft.

""End of Day"" handle made in the 1950's. Yours  is only the second one I have seen. The other is one I have on a 1950's Penn Squidder 140.

The color in that photo almost makes it look like it's made of Ivory . . . Very Cool !

Tiight Lines !
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: sdlehr on December 22, 2017, 01:44:05 PM
Quote from: Penn Chronology on December 22, 2017, 02:51:00 AM
QuotePicked up this Delmar 285 on the cheap just for this handle I've not seen before. It's numbered, and it looks round in cross-section in the photo, but it's football shaped. I'll replace the photo later if I get a chance. Numbered, no oil port, just apparently pressed onto the shaft.

""End of Day"" handle made in the 1950's. Yours  is only the second one I have seen. The other is one I have on a 1950's Penn Squidder 140.
Mike, make that the first then, because they're not the same. Mine isn't round like yours, doesn't fill as much space on the shaft, and the tip is different. Here's a few more pics that better show what I mean. This is in "as  found" condition.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on December 22, 2017, 09:01:45 PM
QuoteMike, make that the first then, because they're not the same. Mine isn't round like yours, doesn't fill as much space on the shaft, and the tip is different. Here's a few more pics that better show what I mean. This is in "as  found" condition.

I see. From that angle I can these are very different. I do not think yours is a factory modification. Yours looks like it was added by a owner or a shop.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: foakes on December 22, 2017, 09:53:29 PM
Quote from: Penn Chronology on December 22, 2017, 09:01:45 PM
I see. From that angle I can these are very different. I do not think yours is a factory modification. Yours looks like it was added by a owner or a shop.

Yep, likely not factory --

Here are a couple similar looking knobs -- just in one of the bone drawers.

Easy enough to just replace a busted or cracked knob with whatever was at hand.

An easy way to attach a new rivet is to just use a rivet spinner for a clean and professional install.

Quick and easy.

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on December 23, 2017, 02:33:37 AM
This is getting deep. Factory and non-factory installations in these non-original applications is a very difficult case to prove. I like to consider more than a different knob simply being added to a handle blade. In terms of the round white knob we are seeing here, there are a few consideration to make. The one installed on my reel fits the vintage of the reel, is riveted with a rivet squeezer and has a oiler installed in it. The reel it is installed on is a transition reel. It has a mix of numbered and non-numbered parts putting the reel in the 1950 to 52 vintage in the Penn world. The handle blade has a Penn LB-60 number stamped into it, which is odd for a Squidder; but, this is an odd handle. A Squidder from that vintage should have a Beachmaster 155 handle. I bought this reel about ten years ago from the son of the original owner, putting the vintage of the reel and the owner in the correctomundo mode. He told me that was the knob that was always on the reel as he remembered. I categorized it as an End of Day handle.

Could I be wrong? Well, Does a monkey eat bananas????
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on December 23, 2017, 02:54:04 AM
And since we are getting deep, let us go back a bit further in the Penn world to pre-war days that are even more difficult to prove things about. I would think, most Penn workers from the pre-war era are pushing up daises these days. I have another End of Day handle to consider. This one resembles the early Senator or maybe Penn Peer 109 style. Of course the size of the handle knocks it out of the Penn Peer or Senator group but the handle does exist. It is mounted on a pre-war Squidder, no part numbers, pre-war marked linen line stand, a coin edged counter weight is mounted opposite the strange handle knob. The handle knob has a oiler with a metal collar and the word "Oil" stamped into the collar.

I suspect this is a factory experimental knob that escaped out the front door when no one was looking.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: ez2cdave on December 23, 2017, 03:13:02 AM
Quote from: alantani on August 01, 2016, 04:00:52 PM
you gotta love these guys....   ;D

https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Handles.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Handles.aspx)

Since Alan was kind enough to post a link to that great handle information, here it is in PDF format, for easy downloading and archiving !

These two files may be identical, but I attached both of them, anyway . . . ( below )

Merry Christmas & Tight Lines !



"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackles old online store over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on December 24, 2017, 12:06:55 AM
Mike, thanks for sharing those end of day handles, really cool stuff! 8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on December 24, 2017, 03:48:06 AM
QuoteMike, thanks for sharing those end of day handles, really cool stuff! Cool

You're Welcome. Have a great holiday season!
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: oc1 on December 24, 2017, 09:30:30 AM
Mike, do you know when the linen line stamping disappeared from the stand?  I would have guessed by 1940.  Thanks,
-steve
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on December 24, 2017, 03:00:06 PM
QuoteMike, do you know when the linen line stamping disappeared from the stand?  I would have guessed by 1940.  Thanks,
-steve

And your guess is as good as any. I would say that stamping ran out on post war reels. I have three Squidders with that stamping on them, telling me it is common to early models. Knowing exactly when it ran out is sort of impossible to say. When it ran out Penn went to a blank Squidder stand. So if I had to make a rule here I would say the linen line stamped stand is pre-war and the blank stand is post-war up to 1951 or 52. In my humble opinion.

Merry Christmas Steve!
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: oc1 on December 24, 2017, 07:27:17 PM
Thanks Mike.  I'm interested in the rate of transition from linen to nylon.  Merry Christmas to you too.  Now, back to handles.
-steve
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Maxed Out on December 24, 2017, 08:00:02 PM
 Rather than what looks like a piece of bubble gum stuck on a Penn stem  :D  :D......this is more-so what would be considered an end of day knob IMO  ;)  ;)

 Ted
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on December 25, 2017, 06:36:18 AM
QuoteRather than what looks like a piece of bubble gum stuck on a Penn stem  Cheesy  Cheesy......this is more-so what would be considered an end of day knob IMO  Wink  Wink

Oh yes, very interesting knob. Sort of unique.

Merry Christmas Ted to you and yours.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Deepennz on December 31, 2017, 11:24:46 PM
Hi there,
I hope everyone has had a merry Xmas, and may you have a productive year in 2018.
I find this handle thread very interesting, so I thought I would contribute.
Here is my 1937, 1st year 12/0.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/8447_31_12_17_4_00_03_229381012.jpeg)
As you can see, this is not the original handle, and it has no front oiler, but I am fairly sure it is a Penn made handle (coin-edge counterweight etc).
Instead of an front oiler it has a hole drilled in the outer shaft, allowing oil to be added to the handle.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/8447_31_12_17_4_00_21_229412453.jpeg)

Has anyone else seen this on any handles? - it would seem to be most unusual for Penn to do this - a prototype perhaps?

Cheers
Martin
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on January 01, 2018, 06:21:18 AM
QuoteHere is my 1937, 1st year 12/0.

My opinion on this handle knob is that it was added to a Penn Hnalde blade. The 12/0 reel you have with no front lugs is a very early 12/0 which probably had a straight handle. The straight was not popular and I feel many owners of the early handle type changed those straight handle to a torpedo handle by either buying a Penn version or having someone change out the handle knob. Can't know for sure; but, that turning done on the knob on your reel does not look like a Penn product. IMHO.....

Happy New Year!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Deepennz on January 02, 2018, 11:12:29 PM
Thanks for the input, Mike.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/8447_02_01_18_3_51_13.jpeg)
I have taken the handle off the reel and taken a few photo's of it - however, despite spending a good 3-4 hours trying to upload the photo's, only one wanted to join the party!!
This shows the underside of the handle - there appears to be no file/drill marks on the underside,  but the shaft itself is shorter than found on my other Senators.
I am wondering if someone has cutoff/removed the original handle off the original blade, and somehow replaced it with the handle as found.
If so - cool!!  Having 3/4's of the original handle, and a conversation piece, appeals to me.
The knob does appear to be made of caitlain - seemingly the same as the others.

Cheers
Martin
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on January 18, 2018, 04:08:24 PM
     Hey Mike, I was wondering if you could post a better look at the handle knob on the second Senator from the left in this pic. It appears to be very unique...looks like a green/black/white swirl.  8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on January 18, 2018, 09:36:47 PM
QuoteHey Mike, I was wondering if you could post a better look at the handle knob on the second Senator from the left in this pic. It appears to be very unique...looks like a green/black/white swirl.  Cool

Wish I could provide you with a better photo; but, unfortunately that reel sold years ago. The photo you used is of my office in 2013. I cropped the reel from the old photos I still have fro you to get a better look. The handle was sort of unique, guess that is why that 6/o sold rather than the other one. I always remember feel that reel was an ugly duckling because of the handle, maybe today I would feel different about it.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on January 18, 2018, 10:41:34 PM
   Thanks Mike. That is a one of a kind knob...very interesting colors. Even the limited view is good enough...just to show that it exists. 8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on February 07, 2018, 02:18:47 PM
Quote from: Swami805 on August 03, 2017, 04:37:17 AM

Was looking for some info on the handle, it has an aluminum knob. It came off a 155 with no part numbers and the handle has a coin edge on the counter weight and no number as well. Just wondering how long penn made them out of aluminum. Did the handle lady turn these too?  Thanks

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4631/40134070931_cdb4e4dd54_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/249vB3c)




  I recently saw the Horrocks-Ibbotson pictured below sporting what appears to be the same handle. Only the lines in the knob are different. Swami's knob looks turned, where the H-I knob looks cast.



Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on December 06, 2018, 01:51:46 PM
   This is another one of those uncommon knobs that has been identified as a Duvall's Tackle special order in red. Love this stuff...thanks Michael Cacioppo for all the great info...and congrats to Milne on acquiring this gem! 8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: oc1 on December 06, 2018, 07:58:18 PM
Catchy slogan and marketing.
-steve
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: basto on December 28, 2018, 11:15:06 PM
Quote from: mo65 on July 31, 2016, 08:31:07 PM
Hi Sid,
I was looking for a "handle info" thread around here...found quite a few questions about "will this handle fit a Shimano" or "will that handle fit an Abu"...but no kind of history about Penn handles through the years. I think this area would be a great place to have such a thread.
I have a handle question...and for lack of a better place to ask(this vintage forum is my best chance of an answer)I'll just ask here and you can move it to a more appropriate location I may have missed. Maybe even make it the first victim of a new handle info thread. ;D
My quandary, probably a simple one, is I have a handle the same size as a #24-155 but stamped #24-60. It has the older football shaped knob as opposed to the newer torpedo knob. Did this handle pre-date the 155 reel? Seems not to be likely...as it is numbered. I'd sleep better knowing the answer to this question, and many other handle questions too!  8)


Hi Mo
Not sure if you got this resolved, but was wondering if it is possible your handle was lightly stamped and is actually a 24-160 handle.
The 24-160 handle on my 160 is the only one I have seen.
Greg
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on December 29, 2018, 04:19:06 PM
Quote from: basto on December 28, 2018, 11:15:06 PM
Hi Mo
Not sure if you got this resolved, but was wondering if it is possible your handle was lightly stamped and is actually a 24-160 handle.

   Hi Greg. Mike Cacioppo said the #24-60 was used a few years in the early 50s and replaced by the #24-155. Maybe that was an attempt by Penn to keep from confusing it with the #24-160. At any rate...the #24-60 and #24-155 are identical...apart from the numbers. 8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: basto on December 29, 2018, 07:52:12 PM
Yes, and I think the 24-160 has a smaller handgrip.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on December 29, 2018, 07:55:46 PM
Quote from: basto on December 29, 2018, 07:52:12 PM
Yes, and I think the 25-160 has a smaller handgrip.

   Yep, and the handle blade is a bit shorter too.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on January 01, 2019, 06:35:20 AM
The early 1950's were the beginnings of the Part Number system and these beginnings were slightly different than the standard system we have today. Before that there were no part numbers. If you look at a 1950's Part Number list you will see what I mean. These is no 24-155 part number. Even for the 155 models, which had not become Beachmasters yet. The handle part number for a 155 was 24-60. What is funny is the part number for a Long Beach 60 handle was 24-66. Penn needed to realign the logic, which they did as time went by. Here is one part of the 1950's part number list with the 24-60 handle number.

Title: Re: Handles
Post by: sdlehr on January 08, 2019, 09:14:35 PM
Quote from: Penn Chronology on January 01, 2019, 06:35:20 AMHere is one part of the 1950's part number list with the 24-60 handle number.
And still, the Long Beach 60 used the 24-66 handle even when there was a 24-60 handle in use on many of the smaller reels..... interesting.... a little mixed up, yeah. Where did the 24-60 handle get that designation if not from the reel? Could that be an error in the catalog? That actually makes more sense than to believe there was a 24-60 handle that wasn't first used on the Long Beach 60.....
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on January 08, 2019, 10:42:05 PM
Quote from: sdlehr on January 08, 2019, 09:14:35 PM
And still, the Long Beach 60 used the 24-66 handle even when there was a 24-60 handle in use on many of the smaller reels..... interesting.... a little mixed up, yeah. Where did the 24-60 handle get that designation if not from the reel? Could that be an error in the catalog? That actually makes more sense than to believe there was a 24-60 handle that wasn't first used on the Long Beach 60.....

    I think the earlier LB60s did have the #24-60. although they weren't numbered yet at that time. Comparing sizes of correct pre-war LB60 handles will reveal this. Some time around 1950 was the switch to the #24-66...at least according to my Long Beach stable. 8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on March 02, 2019, 11:53:16 PM
   Here's another one of those fantastic early Senator knobs on a killer 6/0 posted by Chris.(1badf350) The swirls really pop on this one...love the colors...great score Chris! 8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Darin Crofton on March 03, 2019, 12:38:22 AM
Yes, that is one cool reel and knob, he scored big on that one!
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: oc1 on March 03, 2019, 07:36:05 AM
You gotta wonder why Penn didn't make them all like that.
-steve
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on January 20, 2020, 06:46:57 PM
   I ran across this Penn power handle on the big auction...never saw one of these before...looks kinda cool. 8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Maxed Out on January 20, 2020, 07:40:54 PM
 That is from the land down unda

I don't see a bar code on the package, so obviously not intended for USA market

Nice find !!
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: RowdyW on January 20, 2020, 07:48:59 PM
It looks like Deutschlund to me mein heir.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Jerseymic on January 20, 2020, 08:02:24 PM
Picked one of those up on the bay here in the U.K a couple of years ago!

Mike

U.K.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Alto Mare on January 20, 2020, 08:25:50 PM
I have a couple on my spinning reels, I think they are made in Germany. I got them from Irish Jigger about 8-10 years ago...miss that man on here, but we do exchange messages every once in a while... great guy.
Handles are made very well, well to me anyways.

Sal
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: milne on January 21, 2020, 06:33:10 AM
Mo, That's a great find, very different, I kinda like it as well.
       I don't know whether I would break it out of the packaging or not,,,  Na, I probably would   ;D


col
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on January 21, 2020, 01:58:05 PM
Never saw one of these before. Interesting.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Gfish on January 21, 2020, 03:20:11 PM
Did you get it or is it still on da bay.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on January 21, 2020, 04:12:44 PM
Quote from: Gfish on January 21, 2020, 03:20:11 PM
Did you get it or is it still on da bay.

   No G...I didn't buy it...and I can't seem to find the link to it now. It's not showing up in the "sold" items either...maybe I dreamed the whole thing. :D
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Rancanfish on January 21, 2020, 04:39:41 PM
South Africa market?

It's only $60 with shipping.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Maxed Out on January 25, 2020, 12:10:59 AM

Not sure if they offer different sizes, but this one is for 113H. I think the knob would be a bit small for a 113H, but just the right size for a magnum Jigmaster
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on January 25, 2020, 12:39:38 AM
Bravo Ted...bravo!
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: steelhead_killer on January 25, 2020, 02:12:06 AM
Outstanding! 


Quote from: Maxed Out on January 25, 2020, 12:10:59 AM

Not sure if they offer different sizes, but this one is for 113H. I think the knob would be a bit small for a 113H, but just the right size for a magnum Jigmaster
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: milne on January 25, 2020, 06:08:55 AM
Oh, that is damn Beautiful, Wow....
Thanks for sharing Ted...


Col
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on May 02, 2020, 10:17:23 AM
   I saw this knob on the facebooks...it was on a Silverbeach 99...nice color mix. 8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: coralsea on December 20, 2020, 10:23:43 AM
Penn 113 Black with new black power handle ;D
(https://c.radikal.ru/c18/2012/77/d3826d08244e.jpg) (https://radikal.ru)

(https://d.radikal.ru/d09/2012/39/f8c278ae2bdc.jpg) (https://radikal.ru)


Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on February 07, 2021, 02:53:52 PM
   Here is a handle subject that seems to mystify folks...not sure why...I guess we just need to know all the details. This was posted on the facebooks by Michael Cacioppo, but I thought it should be included on this handle info thread. Hope ya don't mind Mike. 8)

   "Many of us find these. They are not rare. These markings label the alloy content of the handle blade; They are early handles that eventually became standardized and no longer had markings. The handle blades with the stamped "S" are German Silver alloy handles. The "B" stands for cartridge brass, which is a soft brass used to make bullet casings. Eventually, all handles were made of Hard Brass and no longer had markings."
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Crow on February 07, 2021, 05:20:24 PM
Interesting ! Thanks for sharing that !
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: thorhammer on February 07, 2021, 09:49:22 PM
Quote from: Maxed Out on January 25, 2020, 12:10:59 AM

Not sure if they offer different sizes, but this one is for 113H. I think the knob would be a bit small for a 113H, but just the right size for a magnum Jigmaster


yeah i need a half dozen of these...
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Penn Chronology on February 28, 2021, 02:53:34 AM
QuoteHere is a handle subject that seems to mystify folks...not sure why...I guess we just need to know all the details. This was posted on the facebooks by Michael Cacioppo, but I thought it should be included on this handle info thread. Hope ya don't mind Mike. Cool

   "Many of us find these. They are not rare. These markings label the alloy content of the handle blade; They are early handles that eventually became standardized and no longer had markings. The handle blades with the stamped "S" are German Silver alloy handles. The "B" stands for cartridge brass, which is a soft brass used to make bullet casings. Eventually, all handles were made of Hard Brass and no longer had markings."

Don't mind at all. Hard for me to post everywhere. I just do not have the time, so i am glad when good information gets spread around.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Gfish on March 04, 2021, 02:36:23 PM
All markings are interesting in a historical(dating) and meaning way. The B handle has a big fat peened rivet--- softer blade metal?
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on January 05, 2022, 11:56:18 AM
   I saved a pic of this gizmo a while back...forgot to post it...and now have no clue where I saw it. I remember it was intended to make the handle act as the drag star. Anybody have more info? :-\
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Maxed Out on January 06, 2022, 02:44:11 AM
 Hey Mo, it kinda does look like lever drag, but no real way to loosen it once it tightens. These were only sold in Japan under the Penn name. My guess is they were made in Japan by Daiwa. Shark Hunter has a 9/0 with this kit.

Here is a Japan/Penn catalog showing these kits as accessories

-T
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Maxed Out on January 06, 2022, 03:52:35 AM
 Here is another aftermarket Penn polished stainless handle/star combo. This one was made in Italy or France (memory is failing me). This kit is more likely to be found on a Penn reel in Australia. It fits the 113H gear sleeve reels. Notice it says Penn in center of knob and counter balance

Title: Re: Handles
Post by: oldmanjoe on January 06, 2022, 04:02:36 AM
Quote from: mo65 on January 05, 2022, 11:56:18 AM
   I saved a pic of this gizmo a while back...forgot to post it...and now have no clue where I saw it. I remember it was intended to make the handle act as the drag star. Anybody have more info? :-\
To me that is a copy of the Ocean city starless design .
    Then there is this      https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=33916.msg399580#msg399580
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: milne on January 06, 2022, 06:17:11 AM
Quote from: Maxed Out on January 06, 2022, 03:52:35 AM
Here is another aftermarket Penn polished stainless handle/star combo. This one was made in Italy or France (memory is failing me). This kit is more likely to be found on a Penn reel in Australia. It fits the 113H gear sleeve reels. Notice it says Penn in center of knob and counter balance



Ted, Hi...  happy new year to yourself and family...

I am gob smacked how good this reel looks, It's a stunner..

Col
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Cuttyhunker on January 06, 2022, 08:12:39 AM
Like Martin Deepennz I have a 37 12/0 with a no oiler hole handle, John Taylor on viewing it thought "aftermarket", like Mike C's opinion on Martin's handle photo a few pages back. The photos were not taken to display the handle, just what I happen to have on file here in Fla for the winter, the reel is chillin in snowy Mass.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Sharkb8 on January 06, 2022, 11:26:58 AM
I think that they were made by the Dutch
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on January 06, 2022, 12:49:08 PM
Great looking handles guys! Thanks for the info on the starless gizmo. 8)
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Olsi_AT on January 16, 2022, 04:04:55 PM
Only looking!!!

Hi!

I've baught two pieces of that type of handle for my Int. 965 (here in Germany in Spetember last year), and found a lot of problems:

1) First, the most serious problem. The hole in the handle is (much) too large! There is a play of
approx. 30°, i.e. just under 10 % of a full turn. On the package it says ... 965, ... 975, ...
When I read it, I was already skeptical, because I knew that the 965 (Type O) and the 975 (Type E)
have different sleeves. Maybe the Handle 3 fits for the 975, but not for the 965!
in any case not! I have made a thin brass plate so that the remaining cavity is almost completely filled.
Now the play is under an acceptable ~ 1 ... 2°.

2) The claim "2 stainless steel ball bearings" is a cheeky lie! There is only one bearing used in this handle knob!

3) The interior of the knob (screw, shaft, bearing surfaces, etc.) were bone dry; no traces of
of grease or oil were visible. The next time it was used for sea angling, the corrosion would have been
celebrated a happy reign.

4) The bearing could hardly be pulled off the mandrel - much less put back on. The anodized layer
of the mandrel was too thick. Only the use of ellbow grease and sandpaper could help here. Now the
the bearing sits "greasy" on the mandrel.

5) The edges of the holes in the knob facing the reel - i.e., where the fingers usually rest when gripping - were not deburred. A very unpleasant feeling! I solved the problem with with a diamond round file.

Now an absolutely unusable power handle has become an acceptable one for my 965...

Wolfgang
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Gfish on January 16, 2022, 06:01:05 PM
Thanks for info., Wolfgang. A heads-up on mistaken(?) advertising. And welcome to the site!
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Maxed Out on March 29, 2023, 10:41:50 PM
Reviving this old thread for a new addition to my Penn family
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Crow on March 30, 2023, 12:51:37 AM
Now THAT'S pretty neat!
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Bill B on March 30, 2023, 01:42:58 AM
Wow !
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: mo65 on March 31, 2023, 12:08:24 PM
Quote from: Maxed Out on March 29, 2023, 10:41:50 PMReving this old thread for a new addition to my Penn family

  That's awesome Ted...you scored one of the elusive transparent knobs..BRAVO! :d
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on March 31, 2023, 12:39:58 PM
Maybe I'll find something interesting in here. Thanks again Keith.

You'd think with all these handles and knobs I'd be able to get a grip by now.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Cuttyhunker on April 06, 2023, 01:52:47 PM
Ted, The translucent handle has no oil port.  I have a 1937 12/0 with a torpedo handle also no oil port.  Bullseye thinks it is an aftermarket, but everything else says Penn. Are these factory oversights or were there "pre-port" torpedos from the factory?

12:0 Handle.JPG
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Maxed Out on May 10, 2023, 02:21:25 AM
Quote from: Cuttyhunker on April 06, 2023, 01:52:47 PMTed, The translucent handle has no oil port.  I have a 1937 12/0 with a torpedo handle also no oil port.  Bullseye thinks it is an aftermarket, but everything else says Penn. Are these factory oversights or were there "pre-port" torpedos from the factory?

12:0 Handle.JPG

 Those are factory made knobs. They've also been found on a few smaller Penns from that same era. Maybe they were trying to eliminate the oil port, who knows, but they surely didn't make very many with no oil port
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Cuttyhunker on June 13, 2023, 07:47:45 PM
Ted
I missed your reply, thanks for the info :d
Bob
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: Gfish on June 13, 2023, 08:30:25 PM
Interesting. That's the one place you really need an oil port on a Penn conventional.
Title: Re: Handles
Post by: 1badf350 on June 13, 2023, 11:34:52 PM
Hmmmm
Being that is a 1937 12/0, and would/should have had that pear knob everyone hated, it's possible it could be a replacement knob.