Hello there fishos. ;D
This is a new offering from Daiwa just presented at ICAST 2016 and a more complete review by the esteemed "Alan Hawk" can be seen on his site: http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/bg16.html where he does his usual fine job for those interested in a truly in depth review. This post is going to be a little rough at first but eventually I will round it out to be a worthy service tutorial. The reel is very simple and mostly incorporates established Daiwa tech and methods of construction that we are familiar with in a new and sexy package.
This new Daiwa BG "SW" (saltwater) reel is the new foundation that Daiwa is going to build their entry level heavy duty saltwater line upon, replacing the older Saltist with this new version of the BG and also offering another updated Saltist with a "mag-sealed" pinion assembly and line roller, otherwise very similar to this reel. These remain one of the top high speed budget popping reels for use in saltwater providing the retrieval speed that some tropical species (ie Jacks and Tuna) love, as they commonly aggressively attack surface lures ripped fast. Needless to say those bruisers also beat up reels and a robust construction is needed.
The old BG we remember will still be a budget offering and remains in the Daiwa line.
Meet the Black Gold Saltwater :):
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4048/35512228552_86ae0ef681_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/W76sjC)
with implements of destruction:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_5_06_41_174981183.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17499)
Updated edgy cosmetics:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_09_57_17457891.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17458)
Line Roller:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_10_00_174651280.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17466)
Polyphthalamide bushings. The Saltist will use mag-sealed bearings:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_5_06_40_174961501.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17497)
Spool cosmetics:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_09_59_1746220.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17463)
Capacities of the BG 5000. Note the rubber ring on the spool to grip braid:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_09_58_17461595.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17462)
The spool has a ( \ / ) taper to the spindle. This is Daiwa's ABS (Anti-Backlash Spool):
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_5_06_41_174991909.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17500)
And, yes! This (\ /) taper to the line lay is what its supposed to look like properly spooled (confirmed with Daiwa USA):
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4230/34872042883_3bee0601c4_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V8wkqF)
Plastic "heel" guard, with a modern "tactical fore-grip" look to it:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_09_57_174592363.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17460)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4077/34840304714_2b93c7721e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V5HELS)
Removed with the beefy screws for the side plate. These screws are an enormous improvement over the Hex screws of the old Saltist:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4113/35550922761_16b77fa014_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WavLLa)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_10_02_17468874.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17469)
The Air Rotor is a very nice design. Its graphite, but not the more expensive "Zaion" graphite in Daiwa's higher end reels so expect some flex under load. I did not notice any contact with the spool of course:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_10_01_174662089.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17467)
The shaft of the Drive Gear is female (handle) to male (gear):
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_10_01_174671763.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17468)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_10_09_174911894.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17492)
Be sure to keep those threads greased.
The inside of the side cover was well greased from the factory:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_10_03_174691694.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17470)
The Main Drive Gear is famously large in its class of budget reels for strength and power transmission. "Digigear" is meaningless or confusing at best. Its a cast Alu/Zinc gear, not machined like the more expensive Saltiga:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4280/35681290255_6df4db02c8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Wn2Wtz)
The brass washer is a shim:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_10_06_174781191.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17479)
To remove the Gear we have to remove the Pinion assembly first. To do that we have to remove the Rotor. Start with the Collar:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4024/34872042803_2f4526916f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V8wkpi)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_10_04_17473269.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17474)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_10_05_174751454.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17476)
Under the Rotor is the Cover with the washer:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_10_04_17474874.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17475)
Under the washer we see that there is no sealing of the pinion assembly (there is a noticeable gap between the cover and the sleeve). If you dunk your reel there is a perfect tub for saltwater to collect right around your clutch. In the more expensive Saltist this is where the Mag-Seal would go:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_09_55_17453306.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17454)
Under the cover is the Clutch and Pinion. You can see a lot of water will fill this aforementioned tub if the reel is submerged. This is not a knock on Daiwa or the BG per se, few (if any) reels at this price properly seal this area. Consider it more a fair "heads up" to keep this reel dry:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_10_05_174771026.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17478)
with the Roller Clutch lifted out:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_10_09_17488143.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17489)
Nice SS springs inside the Clutch. A big improvement over what seemed to be chromed spring steel in the Saltist:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4231/35681290055_8979cb559e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Wn2Wq8)
Two nice beefy screws to retain the assembly. The Saltist screws here were notorious for stripping:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_10_08_174522085.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17486)
And then we can lift it out:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_10_06_17481319.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17482)
Later we will also service the other pinion bearing and bushing for the shaft (clean and re-lube):
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4233/34840298544_c7ed93a0cd_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V5HCWu)
But to get to them the Gear has to be removed first and it is retained and positioned by this small clip on the right side. Its a bear to photograph sharply in place but you can see it at the tip of the probe and arrows:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4216/34872042683_4992764fc7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V8wkne)
If you don't have experience with this sort of clip beware! Keep a thumb over it when removing it or it will go shooting off and stick on the dog or land in the nether, never to be seen again in this time nexus >:(.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4053/35681290165_b4dee699f8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Wn2Ws2)
The main shaft and Crosswind Block have to be removed as a unit. This is after the pinion assembly has been removed. The Stabilizer Bar lifts right out:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4051/35681290005_0a27d0fd86_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Wn2Wpg)
And with that clip and rt side bearing removed you can wiggle the Gear to one side and lift out the Shaft:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4242/34872045923_36c486c218_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V8wmk6)
Keep the groove for the stud on the oscillation gear to run in well greased:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4260/35681289895_34aab6db2e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Wn2Wnn)
The Drive Gear is well greased from the factory with Daiwa gear grease and is a cast Alu/Zinc alloy. Pretty much the industry standard at this price. The wire you see there activates the backup AR if needed:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4109/35681289865_a71b02c0ef_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Wn2WmR)
To Daiwa's credit the gear is famously over-sized for power transmission and strength (bigger/thicker teeth).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_10_07_174831260.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17484)
At the tip of the yellow arrows below you can see the hole for that spring. Getting that wire tip back in place is the only challenging bit about the service:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4255/35681288745_7773ca6806_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Wn2W2x)
You have to use a probe to guide it into that hole in the Anti-reverse Pawl while you hold the Gear and wire over it:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4235/35681288955_04da71c53f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Wn2W6a)
Once the wire is back in the hole in the Pawl, the main shaft/crosswind block goes in, then hold the gear in while you get the bearing and clip on the right side back on to hold the gear in place. Its really not that bad. You may need your probe to tip the pawl out of the way to get the pinion and ratchets back in proper position.
But, be sure to test this back up AR for proper function before you replace the clutch, or you'll have to start over >:(. Ask me how I know this :).
The Clutch has these slots that must be positioned over the Bearing Retainer after sticking the plastic bit in it's cup and then turning it. It sounds a little weird but I believe this allows the same clutch to be used in other reels that allow you to turn the clutch on and off to allow back reeling:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_10_09_174892289.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17490)
I did not remove the Oscillating Gear for this first look. It resides on a bearing for smooth operation and will need a service in time. Generally, the retaining screw needs loctite to keep it properly snug, and unless necessary I leave it alone and let sleeping dogs lie. :)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4205/35550921551_3edf1f4fde_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WavLpi)
Under the Spool is the clicker and shims:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4264/34872048533_1ee0537af7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V8wn76)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4103/34872047993_f951667233_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V8wmWM)
Drag stack nicely greased from the factory:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_5_06_40_17493945.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17495)
And one spool bearing that needs a regular drop of oil:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_5_06_40_17495188.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17496)
The Handle features a peened on knob and only needs oil on its joints for regular maintenance. Remarkably it was well greased from the factory:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4216/34872041643_58ff1861cd_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V8wk4i)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4288/34872045413_d3d82c4e88_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V8wmbi)
A fast peak under the cover on the Rotor shows us the Bail Spring. Note there is no "auto" trip lever, just a rotor brake incorporated into the action of the spring. The Daiwa BG Saltwater is manual trip only, something that every first rate spinner should do to both prevent accidental bail closure (leading to loss of pricey lures), slow the formation of wind knots and to save on beating up the gear train.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4215/35681289215_0dd7ca76b4_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Wn2WaD)
Ok, I think we have covered all the bases! :D
See a below summary post for some final thoughts.
Looks pretty normal for a Daiwa reel. The anti reverse bearing looks smaller than the Saltist and the line roller bushing are now white.
Quote from: handi2 on August 26, 2016, 10:35:30 PMLooks pretty normal for a Daiwa reel. The anti reverse bearing looks smaller than the Saltist and the line roller bushing are now white.
"Alan Hawk" went over the clutch in some detail. It does have stainless springs inside (rather than less expensive plastic leaves) but it does not appear particularly well supported or retained by the body or cover, imo. However, I defer to Daiwa's judgement in this regard and many of their reels use similar systems without any trouble to my knowledge.
The line roller bushings are polyphthalamide and probably are an improvement over the Saltist. They certainly won't corrode like a bearing but if they wear the roller will start to make noise like others might, however this will be more trouble free for your average no-maintenance user :) . Thankfully the little copper/brass shim inside the Saltist line roller is gone. That was sure a trouble maker. The screw may need some blue loctite to stay tight over time. I well greased it all and put it back together with a drop of the blue.
The Drive Gear is very large (like the old Saltist), and this is a bonus for power transmission as well as thicker and tougher teeth for longevity, albeit it remains a cast Alu/Zinc alloy gear with Brass pinion. Regardless, it is an excellent gear at this price point, perhaps the best. The pinion itself lacks an inserted bushing at the top to protect the main shaft from wearing the pinion. This may lead to some wear of the pinion and binding under heavy load but is not a major issue at this price and max drag (~22 lbs).
It does have a top notch back up AR and very nice SS bearings, but there is not a seal of significance to be found in the reel. So you are going to have to baby it in the salt and around sand and be on top of maintenance, particularly the pinion and clutch assembly as they are literally open air to salt. However, it should be noted Daiwa has prepped the gear box well to prevent corrosion and allow smooth operation. The good news about having no seals or sealed bearings is that it is beautifully free spinning and smooth and very light (~22 oz un-spooled for a reel that will hold 300 yards of 65 lb braid).
That, it's high speed retrieve (47 IPT), a beautiful and tough finish with a top notch drag (de rigeur with spinning reels these days) make it very, very solid for ~$100. Of course, for half again that money spent or a little more you can get a whole 'nother class of reel with seals and better gears, imo. However as a budget offering at that price it has to be said these are quibbles for the money spent, albeit realistic assessment of its ultimate capability.
Tincture of time will tell the tale, AH was very smitten with it but with these budget reels we can only take that so far. Being a great budget reel...means it still is a budget reel with many cost savings considerations, though perhaps one of the very best currently out there...but one that has to be used acknowledging it's limitations and light build. :)
To be sure, it seems to be at least every bit the reel that the old Saltist was or more...at about half the price. An extremely strong value.
best
We can't kill our old Saltist reels.
In the previous model Saltist the line roller bushings were black and the line roller screw was a big problem in trying to get it out. The line roller would gum up and not roll and you couldn't get the screw out without breaking the bail wire. I've replaced many bail wires because of this. They are expensive too at over $40.00.
John,
Is that the factory grease in your pictures? If so, they did a good job.
Quote from: Kyle K on September 03, 2016, 02:48:32 AM
John,
Is that the factory grease in your pictures? If so, they did a good job.
Yep, was very nicely prepped. Looks like Daiwa gear grease on the main, not sure about the whiter stuff on the crosswind gear etc. seems silicon/ptfe based.
Thanks for your opinions on the BG SW spinning reels. I have been wanting some spinning rigs for light to medium sharks, bull reds, large rays and the big drum we catch in my area. The opinions in this thread, and AH's review made it easy for me to decide on the Daiwa BG SW line of spinning reels. So ordered an 8000 off of Amazon. It was on sale, so I couldn't pass it up.
It came in a few days ago. Very impressive reel for under 100.00. Even though I haven't had a chance to fish it yet, I liked it well enough to order 3 more, a 6500, 5000 and 4500. Those three sizes were on sale as well, from the same vender, and were less than the 8000 was. They are on their way.
My plan is to put them on different rods, for different purposes. My spinning rig needs should be covered with the exception of light fresh water duties. I don't do much light fresh water fishing though.
I had been using Penn 704Z's and 710's for my spinning needs. While they're good solid reels, they're not great with braid, and I've been wanting to try something new. We'll see how it goes after I put them to use.
Thanks for the info on the Daiwa BG.
Marty, where did you get your reel for less than $100? Would love get in on that deal. Thanks.
Quote from: smnaguwa on September 05, 2016, 12:29:27 PM
Thanks for the info on the Daiwa BG.
Marty, where did you get your reel for less than $100? Would love get in on that deal. Thanks.
Shark River Mail Order, on Amazon. I got the 8000 for 96.99 plus shipping, and I got the 6500, 5000 and 4500 for 89.99 plus shipping. I may have gotten the last ones though, as the prices on Amazon seem to have gone up. I'd try contactingh Shark River Mail Order though. The prices were fantastic.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JH8FHQC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JH8FHQC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
https://www.amazon.com/sp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=0&isCBA=&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&orderID=109-0340031-5744223&seller=A1AUBHH23J4HKO&tab=&vasStoreID= (https://www.amazon.com/sp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=0&isCBA=&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&orderID=109-0340031-5744223&seller=A1AUBHH23J4HKO&tab=&vasStoreID=)
I've gotten the 8000 in, and just got the 6500 in today. Both reels are very nice. I put the 8000 on an Custom Ugly Stik Big Water heavy action 7' rod. The Ugly Stiks are on sale at the Pure Fishing site, end of summer sale. I got the rod for 42 bucks shipped. http://www.uglystik.com/uglystik-rods-spinning-rods/ugly-stik-custom-bigwater-spinning-rod/1363817.html#specifications (http://www.uglystik.com/uglystik-rods-spinning-rods/ugly-stik-custom-bigwater-spinning-rod/1363817.html#specifications) So, that rig was less than 150 total. The 6500 will be going on a Custom Big Water Ugly Stik as well that I got on sale for the same price. The 5000 will be going on an 7' Ugly Stik Tiger medium action that I already had. And, the 4500 is going on an 7' Ugly Stik Tiger Lite that I got on the end of summer sale for 35 dollars.http://www.uglystik.com/uglystik-rods-spinning-rods/ugly-stik-tiger-lite-spinning-rod/1363832.html#specifications (http://www.uglystik.com/uglystik-rods-spinning-rods/ugly-stik-tiger-lite-spinning-rod/1363832.html#specifications) So, for under 125 I'll have a complete rig. I know a lot of folks frown on Ugly Stiks. However, I'm a big fan of them and have many Ugly Stiks. They've served me well over the years. I have everything from the little 5' ultra lite to the big 12' heavy surf Ugly Stik. I use Ugly Stiks for bottom fishing, plugging, top water, fishing live baits, trolling............you name it, I got an Ugly Stik rod that will get the job done. I have a few other rods that I like, and use too. I've got some Trevala's, some Tritons, a Shimano or two, a Fenwick, a TTF, and a few others. Overall though, my Ugly Stiks are what I reach for. I love me some Ugly Stik. ;D
For line, I put 80lb braid on the 8000 and 60lb braid on the 6500. I plan to put 60lb braid on the 5000 and 50lb on the 4500. The sharks, bull reds, drum, rays, and any other fish that bites my line, better watch out!! ;D ;D
I will say that my first impression of the 8000 is that it is LARGE, and in charge. It's a much larger reel than any of the spinning reels I've used in the past. The largest spinners I've used have been the Penn 704Z's. I've not ever delved into the large salt water spinning reel market before. This year I did a bit of fishing with a friend who has a couple larger sized spinners that we used to catch sharks and kingfish with. So, I really got interested in them, but couldn't afford the price of admission. That is, until these Daiwa BG SW reels came onto the scene. And, with reviews like the one above, and Alan Hawks review, it solidified my decision to try them. And, when I found them for under 100 I jumped on the deals. Time will tell how they work out. So far, I really like what I see with them.
Quote from: mley1 on September 07, 2016, 01:15:41 AM
I will say that my first impression of the 8000 is that it is LARGE, and in charge. It's a much larger reel than any of the spinning reels I've used in the past. The largest spinners I've used have been the Penn 704Z's. I've not ever delved into the large salt water spinning reel market before. This year I did a bit of fishing with a friend who has a couple larger sized spinners that we used to catch sharks and kingfish with. So, I really got interested in them, but couldn't afford the price of admission. That is, until these Daiwa BG SW reels came onto the scene. And, with reviews like the one above, and Alan Hawks review, it solidified my decision to try them. And, when I found them for under 100 I jumped on the deals. Time will tell how they work out. So far, I really like what I see with them.
Best of luck and keep us posted. The OP will have some service updates soon.
Quote from: johndtuttle on August 26, 2016, 10:30:02 PMThe old BG we remember will still be a budget offering and remains in the Daiwa line.
Thank God !
I'm "Old School" and the traditional Daiwa BG reels, in my opinion, represent the best value of any spinning reels ever produced. They "edge out" the 2nd Generation Penn SS Spinfishers, slightly.
I found a chart with Specs for the new reels . . . Attached below !
Great Tutorial, John !!!
Quote from: johndtuttle on August 26, 2016, 11:46:26 PM"Alan Hawk" went over the clutch in some detail.
John,
I converted Alan Hawk's review into a PDF file for easy access and downloading . . . Located at bottom.
http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/bg16.html (http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/bg16.html)Tight Lines !
Quote from: ez2cdave on September 10, 2016, 08:52:29 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on August 26, 2016, 11:46:26 PM"Alan Hawk" went over the clutch in some detail.
John,
I converted Alan Hawk's review into a PDF file for easy access and downloading . . . Located at bottom.
http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/bg16.html (http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/bg16.html)
Tight Lines !
Thanks very much Dave. ;)
Quote from: johndtuttle on September 12, 2016, 05:33:07 PM
Thanks very much Dave. ;)
Anytime, John . . . I wanted to be sure that the information would be easily-accessible and always available !
Tight Lines !
Thanks for this review johndtuttle. From photos it appears the 5000's main shaft does not step down in diameter at the point where it runs through the spool?
On a 8000 that portion of main shaft is super thin relative to the size of the spool and reel in general--thinner even than what you see on the tiny BG-10 (3.3 versus 3.7 mm). My other first impressions of the 8000 though, were favorable. As you say time will tell.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/unchained_colors/Mobile%20Uploads/20160915_125403.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/unchained_colors/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160915_125403.jpg.html)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/unchained_colors/Mobile%20Uploads/20160915_130626.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/unchained_colors/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160915_130626.jpg.html)
chad
Quote from: cbar45 on September 15, 2016, 03:46:44 PM
Thanks for this review johndtuttle. From photos it appears the 5000's main shaft does not step down in diameter at the point where it runs through the spool?
On a 8000 that portion of main shaft is super thin relative to the size of the spool and reel in general--thinner even than what you see on the tiny BG-10 (3.3 versus 3.7 mm). My other first impressions of the 8000 though, were favorable. As you say time will tell.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/unchained_colors/Mobile%20Uploads/20160915_125403.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/unchained_colors/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160915_125403.jpg.html)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/unchained_colors/Mobile%20Uploads/20160915_130626.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/unchained_colors/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160915_130626.jpg.html)
chad
As I understand it the pressed on piece to support the spool results in a smoother drag as the washers are better stabilized.
It has been eliminated in the BG Saltwater to save weight apparently, and I doubt this will have much affect on the drag for most at the modest loads it is designed for.
As far as the thickness of the shafts SS has many varying grades with varying properties, so comparing shafts possibly decades apart in production can't tell us much. Needless to say, older designs also had more "margin for error" in the weight of many components too and that has been supplanted with a save weight (and cost) ethos in building budget reels today.
we can decry this trend in reels but reality is that there is a fine line between cost, weight and performance that everyone competes to meet.
Recently had a chance to look over the smaller 4500-6500 sizes, and it appears they share the same drag knob as the 8000--perhaps this is one reason for the upper main shaft on the 8000 being thinner, in order to accomodate said drag knob.
Nice teardown as usual. thanks for sharing JDT.
Thanks for the great review John.
I am very intrigued with this reel after reading Alan Hawke's review. I have yet to strip one down but It seems to have great potential on paper.
QuoteThis new Daiwa BG "sw" (saltwater) reel is the new foundation that Daiwa is going to build their entry level heavy duty saltwater line upon, replacing the older Saltist with this new version of the BG and also offering another updated Saltist with a "mag-sealed" pinion assembly and line roller, otherwise very similar to this reel.
Looking at pictures of the new Saltist, it still seems to have the same composite Air Bail wire so I will not be rushing out to buy one any time soon. Like many components in the previous model, it's just too delicate and when you combine this with it's prohibitive replacement price tag, that alone makes it a deal breaker for me - it's gonna break and it's gonna cost you.
I see a completely different handle/ maingear in the BG which has to be a big improvement over the previous Saltist (just about anything would). Overall it seems to be a far more robust design. Daiwa needs to carry this over to the new Saltist if they want to win me.
Quote
The line roller bushings are polyphthalamide and probably are an improvement over the Saltist.
The previous Saltist used rather weak Delrin bushes. On some reels the line roller would turn smoothly while on others it would bind up OOB. I think that this was because of flimsy design leading to poor production consistency so it was pot luck as to whether it actually worked or not. I would expect these solid bushes to perform much better despite the fact that I cannot pronounce their plastic pedigree ;)
In conclusion, I think the BG looks good but as for the Saltist: I would want to see some big improvements before I would waste my money.
~
"In conclusion, I think the BG looks good but as for the Saltist: I would want to see some big improvements before I would waste my money."
The Saltist does have mag-sealing of the pinion assembly and line roller to explain the higher cost as well. I would have to say the jury is out on whether or not this is a "value" for most guys. I think the DiY crowd will do far better (in this reel at least) with the simpler BG version and SOP for maintenance.
Those that never touch the internals of their reels may get benefit from mag sealing of the pinion assembly and line roller.
Quote from: johndtuttle on December 07, 2016, 03:42:19 AM
"In conclusion, I think the BG looks good but as for the Saltist: I would want to see some big improvements before I would waste my money."
The Saltist does have mag-sealing of the pinion assembly and line roller to explain the higher cost as well. I would have to say the jury is out on whether or not this is a "value" for most guys. I think the DiY crowd will do far better (in this reel at least) with the simpler BG version and SOP for maintenance.
John,
BELOW is a downloadbale PDF of your Review / Tutorial . . . I took the liberty of including the Specification Chart for the Daiwa BG Saltwater reels.
Tight Lines !
Has anyone had a peek inside the smaller models? Aside from not having back-up dog for the anti-reverse are they as well built?
Cheers,
Andrew
Found that SRMO.com sells through Amazon and had the BG 6500 for 89.99 + 9.99 shipping.
With $12.84 in reward points from my Amazon Chase card and $33.04 cashback from my Chase Freedom card reward points, final price out-of-pocket came to $53.10.
Had been looking at the Quantum Cabo CSP80PTsE and was hard pressed to see where I would gain the additional $80+ worth of utility from it over the Daiwa BG 6500. Since I'm slotting the BG 6500 to take over as my 40lb spinner, that's well under Alan Hawk's 65lb fish limit.
Thanks, John, for your review that was the other factor in my decision making process for the BG 6500.
Quote from: Ruffy on December 07, 2016, 10:53:07 PM
Has anyone had a peek inside the smaller models? Aside from not having back-up dog for the anti-reverse are they as well built?
Cheers,
Andrew
I haven't seen them but there should be no other significant difference. Solid reel, keep it dry.
Been thinking about this for a little while and it occurred to me that we can use a "grease seal" in place of the "mag-seal" of the Saltist and give the BG's clutch and pinion assembly substantially more protection than the bare reel.
This is the problem area:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4064/35681288895_21a80bd325_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Wn2W58)
As there is a gap between the Clutch Sleeve and the retaining cover that directly allows saltwater into the housing. Most splashes are deflected from this area by the protection of the rotor, but if the reel is submerged this is a highway into the pinion assembly.
What we are going to do is build up grease under this washer:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_02_07_17_4_10_04_17474874.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17475)
And then smush the washer down over the top of it:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4097/34840298134_a3249a1496_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V5HCPq)
Spread around the excess a bit for complete coverage:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4214/34872045103_dbf7dc0611_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V8wm5X)
and then put the rotor back on top and button her down. There will be a little stiffness from the grease on the first few turns, but after that it is not really noticeable.
If we pull off the rotor again (here the washer is stuck to the bottom of the rotor) we can see the "grease seal" under the washer that is protecting the gap:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4036/34872044943_73cc52830d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V8wm3c)
This is not a perfect seal (ie does not make the reel regularly submersible) but will protect the pinion assembly/clutch from a brief dunk or regular splashes etc. far better than before.
Vigilance will still be required but this should help substantially this one problem area that is exposed to salt. This is how I would prep the reel (just takes a few minutes) if I was directly headed out to do battle and was worried about some potential brief dunks wading or was going kayak fishing etc.
Great idea, John. Especially the use of the washer. Looks like something the factory could easily incorporate, maybe with a synthetic washer?
Quote from: Kyle K on January 26, 2017, 10:24:05 PM
Great idea, John. Especially the use of the washer. Looks like something the factory could easily incorporate, maybe with a synthetic washer?
The trouble with an actual standard sealing gasket is that it increases the stiffness of the reel (consumer at point of purchase doesn't like) and is immediately noticeable (ie VS).
If the factory did this with grease, then it becomes trouble as the grease ages (gets stiff) or the base evaporates.
It really is a DiY solution that one would have to stay on top of. If you prep it like this then don't fish it for a year it could get gooed up and you would have to clean it out and re-do....but, if you knew you were headed out in the Yak or down to the beach on a rough day you could slap this solution in there in a couple of minutes and gain some worthy salt resistance.
TBH I have wondered if a simple system of over lapping parts that could be filled with grease would accomplish a majority of the goals of sealing this area without stiffening up the reel too much....at a fraction of the cost of mag-sealed parts. This is a solution along those lines to protect the reel from splashes and rinses, without getting too costly.
Quote from: Ruffy on December 07, 2016, 10:53:07 PM
Has anyone had a peek inside the smaller models? Aside from not having back-up dog for the anti-reverse are they as well built?
Just got back from the store from returning one... I had bought a 3000 and never even fished it. The problem is, at this size the reel puts out way more drag than the rotor can handle. I set it fairly strong, not locked down by any means, and the plastic rotor flexed to the point that it touched the spool. That's a deal breaker.
Some positive notes; the rest of the reel is solid and feels of high quality, beautiful styling and finish. The drag was super smooth and strong right out of the box and gears were smooth. Too bad about the rotor!
Quote from: nelz on March 04, 2017, 02:31:45 AM
Quote from: Ruffy on December 07, 2016, 10:53:07 PM
Has anyone had a peek inside the smaller models? Aside from not having back-up dog for the anti-reverse are they as well built?
Just got back from the store from returning one... I had bought a 3000 and never even fished it. The problem is, at this size the reel puts out way more drag than the rotor can handle. I set it fairly strong, not locked down by any means, and the plastic rotor flexed to the point that it touched the spool. That's a deal breaker.
Some positive notes; the rest of the reel is solid and feels of high quality, beautiful styling and finish. The drag was super smooth and strong right out of the box and gears were smooth. Too bad about the rotor!
What line class were you fishing and how much drag. Just wondering if you were overthinking it....?
Without question the rotor flexes as it is not the high end carbon one on a Saltiga or Catalina....but on a reel that size you probably don't need more than 15# of drag.
I didn't measure it, but I can garantee it wasn't anywhere near 15 lbs.
Quote from: johndtuttle on March 04, 2017, 03:43:06 AMWhat line class were you fishing and how much drag. Just wondering if you were overthinking it....?
Without question the rotor flexes as it is not the high end carbon one on a Saltiga or Catalina....but on a reel that size you probably don't need more than 15# of drag.
I'm guessing that the rotor flex occurred while using 20 - 30 lb braid on the reel, right ?
Personally, I only fish Mono and would be fishing 10lb-test on a BG3000. So, rotor flex would not be much of an issue, if any, with a 3-4 lb drag setting.
(http://alantani.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19025.0;attach=24444;image)
Hmm...15# drag? 13# is that max I'd set my BG6500 to from top of spool...would not want it to start anywhere near the 33# rated max. For a BG3000 (IF I had one), probably no more than 7-8# max...IMHO.
It'd be nice if they rated them with a full spool so we could rate them accurately.
Quote from: nelz on March 05, 2017, 02:56:28 AM
I didn't measure it, but I can garantee it wasn't anywhere near 15 lbs.
Well, I for one would be very interested to see just what setting causes it to rub if you have the opportunity.
Daiwa does use a number of different spools on the same rotor and body is my understanding and this could be a big deal for some users.
It's back in the store now, so no, can't do that.
I've never been a fan of plastic rotors, but then I tried an Okuma RTX and was impressed with its C-40X carbon rotor (but unfortunately that reel has other issues.) I know the Daiwa is not C-40X carbon like the RTX, but I thought it would still do alot better given the fancy "Air Rotor" engineering. Too bad because the rest of the reel is impressive.
I just picked up a bg2500, loaded it up with 15lb braid and will put it to a torture test on a big snook or jack cravalle real soon. We'll see how the rotor flexes on that.
This reel does not have the bearing under the spool like the big one in the alan hawk review, and unfortunately has the antireverse switch lever which is just another point for water entry.
I got this reel from a swap of a returned shimano nasci 3000 reel, which although was beautiful, smooth, and casted well, the frame pinches your fingers and the rotor busts your knuckles! And I do not have big hands, geez, someone with ham fists would have no clearance. :(
Quote from: mangrove on April 15, 2017, 02:58:20 AM
I got this reel from a swap of a returned shimano nasci 3000 reel, which although was beautiful, smooth, and casted well, the frame pinches your fingers and the rotor busts your knuckles! And I do not have big hands, geez, someone with ham fists would have no clearance. :(
Funny you say that because I had the same rotor clearance problems with the Saros FA and Symetre FL when I looked at them. The previous version of both...the F and FJ...with the old frame style did not have this problem and are excellent reels. I don't have big hands but every now and then my knuckles would get hit.
Quote from: BradH on April 17, 2017, 11:34:46 AM
Quote from: mangrove on April 15, 2017, 02:58:20 AM
I got this reel from a swap of a returned shimano nasci 3000 reel, which although was beautiful, smooth, and casted well, the frame pinches your fingers and the rotor busts your knuckles! And I do not have big hands, geez, someone with ham fists would have no clearance. :(
Funny you say that because I had the same rotor clearance problems with the Saros FA and Symetre FL when I looked at them. The previous version of both...the F and FJ...with the old frame style did not have this problem and are excellent reels. I don't have big hands but every now and then my knuckles would get hit.
I experimented with different holding grips to make sure I wasn't doing somethin wrong... and if I really paid attention I could hold it a certain way to avoid the rotor smash, but then I got a nice topwater hit reeled down hard to pick up the slack & set the hook and WHAP MF*&$%#@!!*&^!! That was it, I tried.
Quote from: mangrove on April 17, 2017, 07:07:34 PMWHAP MF*&$%#@!!*&^!!
Hmm . . . So, I guess there was some "light contact" with your fingers ? LOL !
Tight Lines !
New Daiwa Bg 3000 , how to fix this?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4wB-7Kek9lhdWVJYkFqc1RONGs/view
Quote from: koliko on April 29, 2017, 10:45:42 PM
New Daiwa Bg 3000 , how to fix this?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4wB-7Kek9lhdWVJYkFqc1RONGs/view
That should be a question for your Daiwa dealer. I wish I could help, but I assume the screw is as tight as it should be and they have a molding/tolerance issue with your bail arm.
author=koliko
New Daiwa Bg 3000 , how to fix this?
that is how it is supposed to be, think of kalashnikov and their tolerances..
this BG SW reel is great by many things, that one included
On a 8000 that portion of main shaft is super thin relative to the size of the spool and reel in general--thinner even than what you see on the tiny BG-10 (3.3 versus 3.7 mm). My other first impressions of the 8000 though, were favorable. As you say time will tell.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/unchained_colors/Mobile%20Uploads/20160915_125403.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/unchained_colors/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160915_125403.jpg.html)
I`ve asked alan hawk about that, after I have seen it here, and this is ( part of ) what he answered:
"The 8000 is advertised as having 15kg of max drag, and in the review I rated it a little lower at 12kg. The shaft is perfectly capable of handling this amount, so you should be fine" .
My thought of the reason is that they needed every millimeter of space for maximum capacity of the spool..
I would like it to be thicker, but hey..
and also, lower gear ratio would be much better, for me, no more than 3.9 : 1 is fast enough
fck >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=928TzSJ3b8A
it is to fast 5.3 : 1
that is why
with 3.9 : 1 it would last forewer
11 hours and the reel was whipped! Wow, did you hit it on the rocks or dunk it? ???
Quote from: nelz on May 12, 2017, 03:12:33 AM
11 hours and the reel was whipped! Wow, did you hit it on the rocks or dunk it? ???
I found that video on yt, not mine.
I would like to ask that Joe what exactly was broken, but I have no account..
..
really hoped that this daiwa is first decent reel for decent money after a lot of time, but they didn˙t want to do it, obviously..
for 130 $ you can buy a bike, good bike, and that is 20 times the amount of material that goes with it
so what the hell they do to take 130 $ and say it is "good buy"..
not to mention those 1000 $ reels
they all skin fishermen like sheeps
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/573910-daiwa-saltist-sheared-drive-gear/page-3
Quote from: glos on May 17, 2017, 05:14:16 AM
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/573910-daiwa-saltist-sheared-drive-gear/page-3
That is an older model Saltist. Not this reel at all.
Quote from: johndtuttle on May 17, 2017, 04:46:56 PM
Quote from: glos on May 17, 2017, 05:14:16 AM
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/573910-daiwa-saltist-sheared-drive-gear/page-3
That is an older model Saltist. Not this reel at all.
I know, but the malicious decision to make catastrophically bad main gear out of pot metal is persisting
Quote from: glos on May 17, 2017, 05:14:16 AM
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/573910-daiwa-saltist-sheared-drive-gear/page-3
I often see these with shattered maingears. The through shaft handle design combined with high gear ratio and soft main-gears is a recipe for disaster.
But the BG series does not have the weak through shaft handle design and neither does the latest revision of the Saltist any more for that matter. They have opted for the much stronger screw on handle design.
Daiwa had to do something to fix the doughnut machine.
~
Quote from: glos on May 18, 2017, 03:08:59 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on May 17, 2017, 04:46:56 PM
Quote from: glos on May 17, 2017, 05:14:16 AM
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/573910-daiwa-saltist-sheared-drive-gear/page-3
That is an older model Saltist. Not this reel at all.
I know, but the malicious decision to make catastrophically bad main gear out of pot metal is persisting
Well then, probably 97% of the spinning reels sold on planet Earth are made out of malice? :)
We have to be fair and say that in fact, the market demands that Daiwa do just that so that more people can afford to go fishing.
This is not a bad thing. ;)
I would say that the new Daiwa BG reels would be "almost perfect", if they had a hardened Stainless Steel pinion gear and a Marine Bronze main gear.
In mass production, how much would that add to the selling price . . . $5 - $10 +/- ?
I would gladly pay that little bit extra !
Tight Lines !
it would add 100$ because it is the production process that is harder and more demanding
but it would be a dream ( with upper part of the main shaft thicker for a 1 mm at least, because now it is way to thin, also stainless wouldn't hurt )
maybe just a little bit better material main gear and it wouldn't add more than 20 $
Quote from: glos on May 20, 2017, 05:07:30 AM
it would add 100$ because it is the production process that is harder and more demanding
but it would be a dream ( with upper part of the main shaft thicker for a 1 mm at least, because now it is way to thin, also stainless wouldn't hurt )
maybe just a little bit better material main gear and it wouldn't add more than 20 $
And this is why I say a Penn Clash for around that (depending on the size) is the best "performance" entry level reel. It has become Penn's best selling reel for good reason. And it has better sealing around the pinion assembly to protect the guts.
But, fact of the matter (and this is a topic we have discussed ad nauseum), the average sale price of a spinning reel in the USA is like $59-$69...with hundreds of thousands to millions (Daiwa Sweepfire) of units sold yearly. As soon as you reach $99 and above you are getting to rapidly diminishing sales of much more rarely sold "specialty high end" reels...Even the poorest among us that posts on a reel site is an "elite user" compared to the average spinning reel buyer.
news
are
that it was due to faulty bearings
how can that be when those are the best part of new bg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0d_UjYzF7s
Easy, high quality SS bearings still corrode. We can only speculate that salt got inside them, but if so, none are immune.
Quote from: johndtuttle on June 06, 2017, 12:14:21 PM
Easy, high quality SS bearings still corrode. We can only speculate that salt got inside them, but if so, none are immune.
Hmm . . . What about replacing the SS bearings with Ceramic bearings ?
Tight Lines !
Ceramic bearings have cages and races that rust.
Best is a high quality sealed bearing that is packed with grease or a truly sealed reel.
The bearings on this reel are most definitely exposed to salt. This is perfectly reasonable for a reel at this price. You simply have to take care of it.
It's not the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it's good for the money!
My Daiwa BG6500 (with pre-service maintenance done) is coming along on the 2017 SOA Charter next week. It will be set up to fish as a 40lb-rig and exposed to the elements for 5 days. Will report back how it fares...
Quote from: johndtuttle on June 07, 2017, 07:51:03 PMCeramic bearings have cages and races that rust.
Not "Full Ceramic Bearings" . . .
https://www.bocabearings.com/products/bearing-and-ball-types/radial-full-ceramic-bearings?ProductType=0 (https://www.bocabearings.com/products/bearing-and-ball-types/radial-full-ceramic-bearings?ProductType=0)https://www.bocabearings.com/full-ceramic-and-ceramic-hybrid-bearings (https://www.bocabearings.com/full-ceramic-and-ceramic-hybrid-bearings)QUOTE :
Full Ceramic Bearings have races and balls that are made entirely of ceramic material and are superior to common steel bearings in many ways. Ceramic is the perfect material for any application seeking to achieve higher RPM's, reduce overall weight or for extremely harsh environments where high temperatures and corrosive substances are present.
Full Ceramic Bearings are usually made of following materials:
Silicon Nitride (SiN4)
Alumina Oxide (Al2O3)
Zirconia Oxide (ZrO2)
Silicon Carbide (SiC)
Because ceramic is a glass like surface it has an extremely low coefficient of friction and is ideal for applications seeking to reduce friction. Ceramic balls require less lubrication and have a greater hardness than steel balls which will contribute to increased bearing life. Thermal properties are better than steel balls resulting in less heat generation at high speeds.
Full Ceramic Bearing Benefits
Will not corrode or rust
2/3 the weight of steel
Resistant to resist acids, alkali, blood, salt and water
Extremely low coefficient of friction and thermal expansion
Lower friction results in less energy consumed
Operating Temperature from as low as (-85°C) up to (+ 900°C)
END QUOTE :
Tight Lines !
(http://www.ortechceramics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Full-Zirconia-Bearing.jpg)
I dont think that bearings had time to rust (11 hours of use ), it is more likely that joe with his hard cranking found one that was faulty.
Also, about fully sealed bearings, (https://i.ebayimg.com/images/a/(KGrHqQOKkYE4BMBvq4rBOBiPswTZw~~/s-l300.jpg)they are actualy worse than open ones because when water eventualy does get in, it can`t get out...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8UEFFawW2o
WWJ Daiwa BG 4000 Fails Again
Quote from: glos on June 09, 2017, 10:47:39 AM
I dont think that bearings had time to rust (11 hours of use ), it is more likely that joe with his hard cranking found one that was faulty.
Also, about fully sealed bearings, they are actualy worse than open ones because when water eventualy does get in it cant get out...
11 hours of use tells us nothing about the interval between the bearings getting salty and the next use. :)
Soak a bearing in saltwater and come back after enough time and any SS bearing on Earth is destroyed.
Quote from: glos on June 13, 2017, 08:50:51 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8UEFFawW2o
WWJ Daiwa BG 4000 Fails Again
But, this is precisely why a reel like the Penn Clash with sealed bearings and a sealed pinion assembly for ~$50 more or even more completely sealed reels like the Spheros or Slammer III are worth the additional coin in harsh fishing conditions.
There is no free lunch! :)
"Not Full Ceramic Bearings" . . .
Cost is prohibitive. Far better to get a reel with better seals to protect all the rest (or accept the limitations of ~$100 reels). :)
My BG6500 was outside in the elements for five days from San Diego to Guadalupe Island and back. Casted a Yozuri Sashimi Popper and 3 oz "kastmaster" with it up until Day 4; no observable changes in mechanical properties.
John, how do you think the BG would hold up to kayak duty with appropriate care and possibly changing bearings to sealed?
Quote from: Three se7ens on June 19, 2017, 02:47:52 AM
John, how do you think the BG would hold up to kayak duty with appropriate care and possibly changing bearings to sealed?
Maybe, if you also did that "grease seal" I show in a later post after the main tutorial. :)
Price is right, but a Penn Clash has all of that already with sealed bearings and sealing of the pinion assembly.
How to get a spare spool ?
Quote from: koliko on June 28, 2017, 09:54:22 PM
How to get a spare spool ?
Call or go over to Daiwa:
DAIWA CORPORATION
11137 Warland Drive
Cypress, CA 90630
(562)375-6800
Quote from: glos on June 09, 2017, 10:47:39 AMAlso, about fully sealed bearings, they are actualy worse than open ones because when water eventualy does get in, it can`t get out...
Sorry, I missed this earlier....This statement is simply false with some caveats. A rubber sealed bearing properly packed with marine bearing grease is remarkably salt resistant, potentially going months and months after complete submersion in saltwater without damage. Clearly the superior choice if a bearing is going to be exposed to salt as demonstrated by Penn's service records and reports by pro techs here where reels found on the bottom of the ocean have their greased bearings survive.
Conversely, the idea that once saltwater gets inside a bearing it can get out again is not precisely accurate. **IF** the regular shielded bearing was soaked in freshwater to eliminate any salt residue inside then dried this might be true, but reality is that they are not soaked in this fashion at all by most and only the outsides typically get rinsed. Consequently the salt that gets in stays in and the bearings (regardless of quality unless specific anti-corrosion coatings are used) are rapidly destroyed.
This reality is why the pro techs here always remove shields (so in fact the bearing can be properly cleaned/rinsed) but still pack non-casting bearings with grease and replace the shields. Regular shields (metal) are really just dirt protection that would gum up reels that only see freshwater but plenty of shore dust. Regular shields are arguably a worse choice for saltwater for most users. But removable rubber seals are an excellent choice keeping out salt far better and keeping grease in as well as being easy to service. The pro techs here love them as they are so easily packed with marine grease and remarkably corrosion resistant.
A rubber sealed bearing lasts far better in our collective experience, unfortunately when greased they are not as free spinning as un-shielded bearings treated lightly with oil. But last they will. Techs here report seeing reel after reel destroyed by corrosion, but the rubber sealed and greased bearings keep going and going and going. Fully salt saturated bearings packed with marine grease (just like your trailer) last for years.
I have found that Penn's sealed bearings last much longer than any other. Shimano spinning reel bearings I have to change daily. Especially the pinion bearing. I just finished a Sustain 2500FG and a Stella 4000FH. Both reels looked new.
Penn's bearings with the black rubber seal is found in all there reels from the first run of Battle reels. The reel may rot away but the bearings are still good. :D
here is joe again, this time they sent him a new reel full of grease
best option it is
and I would put in gearcase lube with NLGI 00 EP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91-EMGlDw9o
after watching a few of Joe's vids, I think all problems could be fixed w/ duct tape... over Joe's mouth :o
Quote from: philaroman on July 12, 2017, 11:09:03 AM
after watching a few of Joe's vids, I think all problems could be fixed w/ duct tape... over Joe's mouth :o
I love bruddah Joe.
A bit enthusiastic perhaps, but he is sharing the stoke! ;)
For the first time in my life I just stepped away from Penn reels and bought one these BG 3000's.
I paid nowhere near retail as I had some very significant discounts available to use.
So it won't even cause me a sigh if it fouls up.
Going to be on a pier rod, so invasion by SW is going to be minimal and I rinse after every trip.
Looking forward to seeing how it does.
Out of curiosity I had Nate play the big fish.
Locked the drag down on the 3000, 10# mono repeatedly snapped and fearful of the rod breaking a time or two.
Never once did the rotor flex anywhere near to touching the spool.
Nope, don't foresee any problems for my usage.
10# mono on a 3000, it better be within that reel's ability! Catch 'em up.
Quote from: nelz on July 15, 2017, 05:23:55 PM
10# mono on a 3000, it better be within that reel's ability! Catch 'em up.
It danged well
better be. ::)
If someone pushes the limits on something, sooner or later they'll find it and break it.
Wish it came with a spare spool, I'd load some 80# mono on there but I'm betting I'd have to put the reel on one of my 40-60# shark rods before the rotor touches the spool.
Quote from: ChileRelleno on July 15, 2017, 05:37:22 PM...Wish it came with a spare spool, I'd load some 80# mono on there but I'm betting I'd have to put the reel on one of my 40-60# shark rods before the rotor touches the spool.
Were you going to put the #80 on the BG3000? It's max rated for 12/170 mono and 30/190 for J-Braid... ??? What are you expecting to be your usable capacity?
Quote from: Porthos on July 15, 2017, 07:48:35 PM
Quote from: ChileRelleno on July 15, 2017, 05:37:22 PM...Wish it came with a spare spool, I'd load some 80# mono on there but I'm betting I'd have to put the reel on one of my 40-60# shark rods before the rotor touches the spool.
Were you going to put the #80 on the BG3000? It's max rated for 12/170 mono and 30/190 for J-Braid... ??? What are you expecting to be your usable capacity?
Well.... I guess I should've used another emoticon/smilie or three to denote my sarcasm.
Earlier in the thread one person returned a BG because he 'apparently' exceeded its specs and says the rotor contacted the spool.
I just don't see it happening without really trying to accomplish it.
I'm not.
Quote from: ChileRelleno on July 15, 2017, 07:57:19 PM
Well.... I guess I should've used another emoticon/smilie or three to denote my sarcasm.
Earlier in the thread one person returned a BG because he 'apparently' exceeded its specs and says the rotor contacted the spool.
I just don't see it happening without really trying to accomplish it.
I'm not.
I pushed my BG6500 up a "reasonable" one line weight class above the factory max rating of 30/260...used a 40lb top shot with 50lb braid main with drag set at 12lbs from top of spool. Could possibly do the BG6500 up to 60lb top shot with up to 80lb braid main. Would NOT go up to 80lb top shot with the corresponding 1/3-rule of 26.67lbs drag...that's too close to the 33lb max rating. It's also known that graphite conventional frames fail with drag settings of 25+ lbs, so no point in pushing the BG's graphite rotor to this level...
...there's exceeding specs within reason and then there's exceeding specs with total disregard to reason...YMMV.
I pre serviced a 6500 and larger new BG yesterday.
The only thing I saw that concerned me was the movement of the spool. The spool moved really easy all over the place. Side to side wobble by using my hand. He will be using them for surf fishing. With the drag set light enough for bait to be taken the spool sure moves around. I guess its normal.
Keith
Quote from: handi2 on July 16, 2017, 12:42:07 AM
I pre serviced a 6500 and larger new BG yesterday.
The only thing I saw that concerned me was the movement of the spool. The spool moved really easy all over the place. Side to side wobble by using my hand. He will be using them for surf fishing. With the drag set light enough for bait to be taken the spool sure moves around. I guess its normal.
Keith
Hey Keith,
Just went out to the garage and checked the spool movement on my BG6500 and compared it to the Fin Nor LT100...there was no appreciable lateral movement.
Wai
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx_lkh6eg0vcc1hSeEtwQW9oSWc/view
here is the thing, that bothers joe
and I don't think that it is a real malfunction in a reel
and some interesting specs also
I previously posted this pic, but am re-posting it to be near Glos's great Spool size reference.
Tight Lines !
solved
"According to the Daiwa rep...they replaced 5 bearings, the first time, the 2nd time they did not repair but gave me a new one, that failed in 13 hours..sent it in..rust in the bearings was the culprit..and said they are not sealed bearings and to go to the saltist so thats what I did.. .."
( find full conversation in comments on this video )
..that rusting is not really a problem because one can always not dip the reel and fill it with gear case lube that has NLGI of 00 and is EP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMrOZyCIHFg
now the saltist had same faith as bg
got broken, on yt channel
Quote from: glos on August 21, 2017, 03:14:55 PM
now the saltist had same faith as bg
got broken, on yt channel
We need to get you an Australian ALVEY reel . . . LOL !
Tight Lines !
Quote from: ez2cdave on August 21, 2017, 08:32:04 PM
Quote from: glos on August 21, 2017, 03:14:55 PM
now the saltist had same faith as bg
got broken, on yt channel
We need to get you an Australian ALVEY reel . . . LOL !
Tight Lines !
I would never fish that type of reels.
And I actually think, and more even, am sure that daiwa bg sw is solid reel, saltist not worth the extra money but equally good ( minus the magseal, which makes it worse )
and that Joe isn`t telling it all
he, I am sure, dunks those reels in salt water, and waits for rust to start working, just so he can make videos and praise spheros all the time
Quote* (15 October 2017) Daiwa apparently understood that low grade gearing with vague"Digigear xx" logos won't cut it anymore for the informed anglers. A new range of mid priced reels is coming, where they specifically state that the gear is "machined A7075 aluminium for durability". I'll be examining the ones without a mag-seal first in the near future. Thank you, smelly fishos, for responding to factual reviews and voting with your wallets. You made this happen.
Quote from: glos on October 18, 2017, 08:50:23 AM
Quote* (15 October 2017) Daiwa apparently understood that low grade gearing with vague"Digigear xx" logos won't cut it anymore for the informed anglers. A new range of mid priced reels is coming, where they specifically state that the gear is "machined A7075 aluminium for durability". I'll be examining the ones without a mag-seal first in the near future. Thank you, smelly fishos, for responding to factual reviews and voting with your wallets. You made this happen.
glos,
That quote was from Alan Hawk, right ?
http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/news.html (http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/news.html)Tight lines !
yep, this one is, too
"UPDATE: Since I've written this review, Daiwa has introduced a JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) version of this reel, which has a downgraded construction. I will add details into the review later, but for now keep on mind that this review only covers the Export version and stay away from the JDM version"
QuoteCast Zinc-Aluminum is by far soft, brittle, and sacrificial. To make it work, you need a stiff frame and the gear should be large in diameter with thick teeth which lowers the loads in the teeth and things will last longer. Of course, you shouldn't use a spinner like a winch, but most of us do crank harder than we should on them. Frames and shafts can flex, and when they do, the loads on the gear teeth skyrocket and all bets are off. But, one thing that I've run into is that the IAR fails when they get wet, and once that happens the full load goes onto the zinc gear and it's toast. It may work for a few outings but that's about it. Many older designs that use cast zinc gears didn't have IAR's and the gear teeth are protected from loading by passing that onto the dog and ratchet and the frames are big and heavy. You don't notice the damage there as there is tons of play in that system.
Cast materials are full of porosity (little holes) which are really just little cracks and zinc has very low strength and is soft (can be rolled over). Billet material or forged materials (hot worked or cold worked) are far superior. Heat treating makes a big difference as well, in strength, fatigue, and hardness of the material.
The old reels (i.e. 704's) really have brass gears, not bronze. I think some old marketing stuff said bronze. But there is no doubt that the metallurgy has changed over the years. I have a 704 from '69 and the main gear is silver. It is probably a left over from the 700 and may be aluminum. If not it is a very different type of brass, perhaps with higher nickel content.
It's always considered good practice to use two different materials in gear sets as galling and fretting occurs when the same metals are used. Due to heat and friction small little 'miro-welding' occurs between the teeth and this makes them rough and acts like little cracks leading to failure. So having one of stainless and the other of brass works well, no galling or fretting will occur. The one exception to this rule, is that steel on steel tends not to gall either (i.e. a VS gear set) as long as it is lubricated. The steel and brass (or even better bronze) gears will be smoother as the brass wears ever so slightly into the steel. This is why it is good practice to mark gears so that you install them back in the same orientation that they came out in. Used to do this with car engines. Keep the rocker, push rod, and lifter all matched together and put back in the same location. The teeth have been matched on one-to-one reels through wear.
A 704 is a well designed system. All the materials and loads that the reel can see are matched. You can lock the drag down and all still works.
New reels often have ridiculous drag settings that will result in frame flexing and shaft distortions. They match these with zinc gears, that's just crazy. Sure you shouldn't be using that much drag and all would be fine, but then why put it there? Marketing. But that's like buying a Dodge Charger with 500 hp, only if you step on it you blow the rear end. Nope, they beef up the other parts so that the system works together.
So, can you make a zinc gear work? Absolutely, but the cost saving in the gear is offset. To handle the same loads as a better material, the gear must get larger which means the housing must get larger to fit it. If the housing gets larger, the walls have to get thicker....and so on and so on. This all increases the cost of the rest of the system and also add weight to the system making it unmarketable. I think that what you typically see is that a zinc gear is thrown in to cut the cost on a design after the fact and that most designs would work fine if they didn't have the zinc gears. And this is what happens when bean counters run the business.
Hello all. Longtime stalker, first time poster.
I recently picked up a BG4000 and was wondering if anyone has advice with pics or a link to a video explaining how to convert the bail from automatic to manual. I've never owned or taken apart a Daiwa Spiniing reel and don't want any surprises or lost micro-parts.
Thanks!
Quote from: Er31400 on November 22, 2017, 03:49:20 PM
Hello all. Longtime stalker, first time poster.
I recently picked up a BG4000 and was wondering if anyone has advice with pics or a link to a video explaining how to convert the bail from automatic to manual. I've never owned or taken apart a Daiwa Spiniing reel and don't want any surprises or lost micro-parts.
Thanks!
Taking a look at the schematic:
http://www.daiwa.com/us/service/manuals/image/spinning/BG1500_2000_2500_3000_3500_4000.pdf
Removing any of the bail trip parts (19-22) or the Bail Trip Lever (17) will do the trick. The interesting part is that the rotor is balanced for these parts, so generally removing the fewest or lightest that do the job of disabling it is best.
I haven't seen one of the smaller ones, the larger are manual bail only from the factory.
Thank you!!!!
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 22, 2017, 05:24:36 PM
Quote from: Er31400 on November 22, 2017, 03:49:20 PM
Hello all. Longtime stalker, first time poster.
I recently picked up a BG4000 and was wondering if anyone has advice with pics or a link to a video explaining how to convert the bail from automatic to manual. I've never owned or taken apart a Daiwa Spiniing reel and don't want any surprises or lost micro-parts.
Thanks!
Taking a look at the schematic:
http://www.daiwa.com/us/service/manuals/image/spinning/BG1500_2000_2500_3000_3500_4000.pdf
Removing any of the bail trip parts (19-22) or the Bail Trip Lever (17) will do the trick. The interesting part is that the rotor is balanced for these parts, so generally removing the fewest or lightest that do the job of disabling it is best.
I haven't seen one of the smaller ones, the larger are manual bail only from the factory.
John,
I just looked at the schematic. In my opinion, removing (17) is the best bet ( Actually, 16, 17, & 18 ).
To me, it looks like the Bail would just "flop around", without the Bail Spring (21) in place, along with its mounting hardware ( 19, 20, & 22 ).
Thoughts ?
Tight Lines !
Hi John,
Thanks for your review on the BG.
I notice from your pictorial that Daiwa seem to have scalloped out any protruding obstruction on the pinion support pillar.
I am hoping that this would allow you to extract the maingear assembly without impediment.
I am sometimes at a loss for words when I see big reel corporations with decades of engineering experience commit monumental design blunders and this was one of Daiwas worst!
I am hopeful that the new Saltist will prove to be a winner but I cannot help but be wary when I see reports of early failure after seeing so many fractured maingears in the previous model as seen in the following pic.
~
^^^ Yea, this is why I really trust this service community for an ultimate appraisal of a reel over time. You guys see far more reels than any reviewer and find all the faults.
Unfortunately, the Main Shaft still has to be removed to remove the Main Gear as the Idle Gear still doesn't have enough clearance to get by it plus you have to play with the AR wire positioning at the same time.
One of those "tricks" that I am sure vex the assembly techs when the reel is first fit together and clearly not intended for regular service.
Quote from: johndtuttle on November 29, 2017, 11:04:21 PM
Unfortunately, the Main Shaft still has to be removed to remove the Main Gear as the Idle Gear still doesn't have enough clearance to get by it......
Understood. I would assume that is a given.
To bottom line it, what I am asking is whether ....
1. you have to first remove the RH sideplate bearing
before you can extract the maingear or
2. you can extract the maingear with the sideplate bearing still in place?
~
I don't have the reel nearby to look at atm, but I want to say yes....
lol.
But the answer is no. To remove the main shaft the bearing has to come out so you can tip the main gear enough to get it out. The main shaft can't be removed from the crosswind block from the top (its pressed on) and has to slide out the back of the reel. The rt side bearing has to come out to shift the main gear enough to make enough room to clear the main shaft out the back of the reel.
Fortunately, the bearing is far easier to remove than it was in the old Saltist (nightmare).
Hi guys is there anyone has extra side plate screw? I Just need 1 thanks. I'm willing to buy it.
Call up Daiwa...they'll probably send you 1-2 screws gratis.
Quote from: Porthos on October 06, 2019, 03:23:33 AM
Call up Daiwa...they'll probably send you 1-2 screws gratis.
thanks
I have 3 daiwa BG
3000 very quiet and very very smooth
5000 very quiet and very smooth
Those reels are every bit as smooth as my shimanos
4000 not quite so quiet and smooth and when the anti reverse is switched
On it makes a faint squeaking sound when the handle is turned slowly,
The sound stops when I turn the handle faster.
The reel is new, but spooled up, I have no intention of returning it because
I don't think this will be noticeable in actual fishing.
But...... I have seen this squeezing on the 4000 mentioned elsewhere with
No reel ( see what I did) solution.
Can any one help
Quote from: gary760 on July 16, 2021, 07:31:25 AM
I have 3 daiwa BG
3000 very quiet and very very smooth
5000 very quiet and very smooth
Those reels are every bit as smooth as my shimanos
4000 not quite so quiet and smooth and when the anti reverse is switched
On it makes a faint squeaking sound when the handle is turned slowly,
The sound stops when I turn the handle faster.
The reel is new, but spooled up, I have no intention of returning it because
I don't think this will be noticeable in actual fishing.
But...... I have seen this squeezing on the 4000 mentioned elsewhere with
No reel ( see what I did) solution.
Can any one help
I'd get a drop of oil under the rotor into the clutch and on the spool shaft.
Yes I went with that John before I posted. I took the rotor off, removed the anti revearse bearing assembly, bit of oil on the assembly, internal sleeve and shaft, a bit more grease on the shaft. Still the same very faint squeak
When the handle is turned slowly with the anti reverse on no squeak when the
Anti reverse is off. The 5000 is fine ( no on off anti reverse) the 3000 with
On off anti reverse is smoother and quieter than a $100 dollar reel has any
Right to be.
If the sqeak starts when you switch on the AR, then it stands to reason, it must be the AR. Perhaps the oil did not reach into the "squeaky wheel"? ;D
I would try, (with the roller bearing removed) coating the AR sleeve with light oil and inserting it into the roller and manually rotating it until you're sure the oil has coated all the rollers. If they are the spring loaded type, a thin coat of oil shouldn't cause slipping. You might actually be able to hear the sqeak spinning it in hand before the oiling.
Quote from: cbar45 on September 15, 2016, 03:46:44 PM
Thanks for this review johndtuttle. From photos it appears the 5000's main shaft does not step down in diameter at the point where it runs through the spool?
On a 8000 that portion of main shaft is super thin relative to the size of the spool and reel in general--thinner even than what you see on the tiny BG-10 (3.3 versus 3.7 mm). My other first impressions of the 8000 though, were favorable. As you say time will tell.
chad
This has actually turned out to be prophetic: The main shaft thinness is a weak point in this design with bent shafts from tugging on bottom snags being distressingly common.
That and the wide open pinion assembly leading to corrosion issues.
The Saltist addresses that with a mag-seal if you can live with it. But the thin shaft remains problematic.
I'll be giving the BG MQ a look soon.
Quote from: Glos on May 03, 2017, 04:31:01 PMOn a 8000 that portion of main shaft is super thin relative to the size of the spool and reel in general--thinner even than what you see on the tiny BG-10 (3.3 versus 3.7 mm). My other first impressions of the 8000 though, were favorable. As you say time will tell.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/unchained_colors/Mobile%20Uploads/20160915_125403.jpg) (http://"http://"http://"http://"http://"http://"http://"http://"http://"http://"http://"http://"http://s25.photobucket.com/user/unchained_colors/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160915_125403.jpg.html"""""""""""")
I`ve asked alan hawk about that, after I have seen it here, and this is ( part of ) what he answered:
"The 8000 is advertised as having 15kg of max drag, and in the review I rated it a little lower at 12kg. The shaft is perfectly capable of handling this amount, so you should be fine" .
My thought of the reason is that they needed every millimeter of space for maximum capacity of the spool..
I would like it to be thicker, but hey..
and also, lower gear ratio would be much better, for me, no more than 3.9 : 1 is fast enough
This is a case of being right and wrong at the same time.
I trust that the main shaft can hold up to the drag and not bend per "Alan Hawk's" assessment and many people's actual use. But this doesn't take into account your average googan fisho.
When we hook the bottom there are very many reels (ie nearly all) that do not make enough drag to break off the super strong braid on the reel we've spooled. Ie many guys will spool a reel with say, 20# braid that actually breaks off at 40lb. Not many small reels make enough drag to bust off 40# so we palm or thumb the spool to lock it down to break off.
One has to be very careful to then pull straight back to spare rod and reel some of the excessive load. The bent shafts reported were probably guys palming the spools and then jerking like mad to try and free their hooks. This scenario is probably on the spectrum of "abuse" but the margin for this abuse may be too slim on Daiwa's part.
Possibly a classic case of cheaper to replace bent main shafts for googans rather than engineer a better part that costs and weighs more. Needless to say with proper technique for breaking off "Alan Hawk" is probably right. But I don't hear tales of bent shafts too often from other designs that may have more googan proof main shafts yet are condemned as too heavy.
can't expect manufacturers to account for gross user error,
especially not during a general make-it-lighter trend
here's my vague, unqualified benchmark for adequate shaft strength/diameter:
consider a scenario that may happen less often to pros, but still happens!!!let's say top of spool smacks rock/rail, HARD, while most vulnerable at top of oscillation
- spool sustains enough damage to be swapped & shaft is OK, ready for spare spool = GOOD DESIGN!!!
- spool is minimally damaged, fully functional, yet shaft is bent, then it's WAY too thin = BAD DESIGN!!!
When light weight is a pre-eminent goal we will perhaps see many of the above scenarios.
However, read "AH's" review of the Battle III with brass or even stainless gearing. There will be no shaft issues and it has vastly better salt protection of the pinion assembly et al....but will pay a weight penalty.
The Battle III (or especially the DX) a better reel, imo, at that price point for more guys. It truly is a return to the Penn of yore.
Quote from: johndtuttle on July 11, 2023, 02:17:37 PMWhen light weight is a pre-eminent goal we will perhaps see many of the above scenarios.
However, read "AH's" review of the Battle III with brass or even stainless gearing. There will be no shaft issues and it has vastly better salt protection of the pinion assembly et al....but will pay a weight penalty.
The Battle III (or especially the DX) a better reel, imo, than the BG at price point for more guys. It truly is a return to the Penn of yore with economy and toughness.
Quote from: johndtuttle on July 02, 2023, 12:28:24 AMThis is a case of being right and wrong at the same time.
I trust that the main shaft can hold up to the drag and not bend per "Alan Hawk's" assessment and many people's actual use. But this doesn't take into account your average googan fisho.
When we hook the bottom there are very many reels (ie nearly all) that do not make enough drag to break off the super strong braid on the reel we've spooled. Ie many guys will spool a reel with say, 20# braid that actually breaks off at 40lb. Not many small reels make enough drag to bust off 40# so we palm or thumb the spool to lock it down to break off.
One has to be very careful to then pull straight back to spare rod and reel some of the excessive load. The bent shafts reported were probably guys palming the spools and then jerking like mad to try and free their hooks. This scenario is probably on the spectrum of "abuse" but the margin for this abuse may be too slim on Daiwa's part.
Possibly a classic case of cheaper to replace bent main shafts for googans rather than engineer a better part that costs and weighs more. Needless to say with proper technique for breaking off "Alan Hawk" is probably right. But I don't hear tales of bent shafts too often from other designs that may have more googan proof main shafts yet are condemned as too heavy.
Personally, I fish my spinners based on spool capacity rather than factory-rated max drag as most spinners will have much higher factory-rated drags than their intended max listed line class.
I bought the BG 6500 based on Alan Hawk's review in time for the 2017 SOA Charter. It was designated for the 40lb slot given it's spool capacity with 50lb braid main...would
maybe fish 50lb top shot in a pinch if needed but so far haven't. Have never exceeded 13lbs drag from top-of-spool, and the reel fishes today as well as it did out-of-the-box in 2017. Had I gotten a BG 8000, it would have occupied the 50lb slot with 65lb braid given I wanted at least 400yds of braid main...but for 50lb, I went with the all metal Fin Nor LT100...felt better with a metal rotor vs. the BG's graphite one.
So with 13lbs drag for the BG 6500, and 16lbs drag for a BG 8000, neither gets close to Alan Hawk's 26.4lbs (12kg). If following my rule-of-thumb 2/3 of factory max of 33, the max I'd ever fish them would cap at 22lbs...putting the BG 8000 in the 60lb class of my spinner arsenal which I chose NOT to do. My second LT100 got the 60lb slot.
IMHO (and actual practice), fishing spinners with a reasonably appropriate line class and well below their factory-rated max drags mitigates any weak/failure points that a manufacturer chose NOT to disclose. My old-school conventionals, however, I choose to hot rod since they came into existence before CAD/CAM, and have a higher chance of being over-engineered to handled their marketed line classes back in their day.
As always, YMMV...
Devil's advocate: if you only fish a reel within its design parameters you're just lugging around excessively heavy hardware to do a job that could be accomplished by abusing something lighter.
And if it's a quality reel, it'll take that abuse just fine.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on September 04, 2023, 11:24:51 PMDevil's advocate: if you only fish a reel within its design parameters you're just lugging around excessively heavy hardware to do a job that could be accomplished by abusing something lighter.
And if it's a quality reel, it'll take that abuse just fine.
By the above logic, a Daiwa SALTIGAG8000H (23.1 oz), with its 55 lb max drag rating, can be a 100lb reel, which
you can then do night drop fishing with for SoCal BFT...hmm. Be more than happy to be fishing next to you, but I'll be using a Okuma Makaira MK-30000LS (39 oz) using just 30lbs of its factory-rated 66lbs max.
Quote from: Porthos on September 05, 2023, 02:20:00 PMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on September 04, 2023, 11:24:51 PMDevil's advocate: if you only fish a reel within its design parameters you're just lugging around excessively heavy hardware to do a job that could be accomplished by abusing something lighter.
And if it's a quality reel, it'll take that abuse just fine.
By the above logic, a Daiwa SALTIGAG8000H (23.1 oz), with its 55 lb max drag rating, can be a 100lb reel, which you can then do night drop fishing with for SoCal BFT...hmm. Be more than happy to be fishing next to you, but I'll be fishing a Okuma Makaira MK-30000LS (39 oz) using just 30lbs of its factory-rated 66lbs max.
Is that model of saltist a quality reel? If so I'm sure it would do just fine if it has the line capacity, and i believe it does. If memory serves those have brass gears, a backup AR, and decent drag heat dissipation. A definite upgrade over a BG whose main shaft bends if you look at it wrong. I find I'm moving away from spinners for all but the lightest uses. But if I hurt my right hand or something and couldn't crank a conventional, that would probably be fairly reasonable.
There's reels that make the drag to fish 100# line for a GT or jigging Tuna where you need to put the wood to 'em to stop them short and avoid structure. Short fights, over quick.
And then there are legit 100# class reels that you can fish with a legit 25# of drag harnessed up for Cow Tuna and have a real death match for the next 4 hours...
The two are not the same and a Saltist or even BG may do one for a little while, but not the other no matter how much drag it puts out by the numbers. They over build a VISX 30 for a reason.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on September 04, 2023, 11:24:51 PMDevil's advocate: if you only fish a reel within its design parameters you're just lugging around excessively heavy hardware to do a job that could be accomplished by abusing something lighter.
And if it's a quality reel, it'll take that abuse just fine.
I... think I understand what you're saying here, but I'm not sure I completely follow. Can you give examples?
If it's a quality reel it will (probably?) have higher design parameters. If you go beyond those you're just abusing an expensive reel? For example a Stella 5000 SWC is, according to the spec, good for 28lb of drag, which makes it an 80lb reel by the oldschool 1/3rd method and a 60lb reel if you go by a more modern 50%. If you fish a Stella 5000 as an 80lb class reel you're... ambitious, and that's using a very kind word.
Those parameters exist for a reason, and a fairly good amount of the time the drag numbers in particular are complete fantasy and the reel is at its absolute limits to achieve them.
There is so much more that goes into whether a reel is suitable for a certain kind of fishing than a handful of numbers. The fundamental reality is that probably 99.9% of fish are caught in a manner that never really tests the gear involved anyway.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on September 05, 2023, 02:45:24 PMIs that model of saltist a quality reel? If so I'm sure it would do just fine if it has the line capacity, and i believe it does. If memory serves those have brass gears, a backup AR, and decent drag heat dissipation.
Saltiga* and it's an extremely high quality reel ($1000 or so), but it holds about 130m of PE8, and would probably get spooled on the first run of a good fish.