I heard some chirping coming from the Cardinal nest and figured I might as well post a breakdown & reassembly on the Cardinal 6 & 7 to accompany the Cardinal 4. The Cardinal 6 & 7 are basically the exact same reel, and parts, except for the rotor cup & bail assembly. The Cardinal 7 spool is larger, which holds a little more line, and the only parts that differ are the rotor cup, bail, bail stopper, spool & spool arbor and side plate. All other parts are exactly the same.
I went to my box of yet to be serviced Cardinals and grabbed a Cardinal 7 for this example.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_58_34_343692260.jpeg)
It wasn't too bad but clearly needed a good cleaning and part replacement. Notice the oscillation arm/connecting link attachment is broken. That is fairly common on these older Cardinal 6 & 7 reels. The nylon, or sometimes plastic, attachment becomes brittle after a number of years, cracks and breaks. If the main shaft won't oscillate or becomes bound up a broken link attachment is generally the culprit.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_58_33_34368521.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_58_43_34371420.jpeg)
As with the Cardinal 4 the first step is to remove the 2 e-clips from the connecting link (oscillation arm), one on the main gear and the other at the rear of the main shaft. Once the connecting link is removed pull the main shaft out the front and remove the main gear. Next would be to remove the rotor cup from the body. Everything else from that point on pretty well falls into place and would just be the reverse of the reassemble steps shown later.
Here's a closeup of the broken link attachment. The attachment itself can be replaced because it connects to the arm via a pin & e-clip. The e-clip is on the opposite side. I save the brass bushing in case replacement attachments become unavailable. I figure worst case scenario I can always make one from a piece of nylon washer if need be.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_58_39_343702455.jpeg)
Again, all the internal parts were wiped off and soaked in a jar with lacquer thinner, including the bearing on this one, for a couple of days. It howled & growled like an African Lion so I knew I would have to remove the dust shield, clean and repack the ball and race area. The plastics and painted body parts were cleaned with the Original White Goop (NO PUMICE), then washed in warm water & Dawn and thoroughly dried. Here's the parts, along with my newly acquired Penn wrench ;D, all 60+ of them, cleaned and ready for reassembly. There wasn't anywhere I could utilize the wrench on this project but I will display and use it proudly! :)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_58_47_343722080.jpeg)
Here's the bearing with the dust shield removed, cleaned a ready to repack.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_58_49_343731015.jpeg)
Bearing's repacked & ready to install the dust shield.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_58_54_343741767.jpeg)
My first step, before my fingers get all greasy, is to assemble and install the bail onto the rotor. Thread the bail plate all the way onto the bail and then back it off 1/2 to one full turn so that it lays parallel with the bail. The bail springs are wound opposite and this photo shows them relative to their correct side. They must be installed on the correct side or they will be bent, sprung and difficult, if not impossible, to re-bend or adjust. The bail stopper on the Cardinal 6 & 7 installs when the rotor cup is attached to the body housing so install the spring and bail arm on the roller guide side, then install the spring and bail plate/bail on the opposite side. Once installed rotate the bail in the appropriate direction to get tension on the spring and turn the bail 90 degrees. Have the line roller, teflon bushing, protecting washer and bail nut ready for installation. Check the bail to make sure it lines up perfectly with the hole in the bail arm. Bend or adjust it if needed so that there is no pressure sideways or up and down. Once the bail is adjusted properly lube and install the teflon bushing, roller guide and protecting washer. Check to see that the bail will snap back with authority and if not adjust the springs or bail alignment accordingly. There won't be any tension on the bail springs since the bail stopper is not in place. Set the rotor aside for later installation.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_59_27_34383408.jpeg)
On to the body. Install the anti-reverse button using the e-clip. Add a little grease on the screw and install the hook (lever) & spring. Lube the screw/lever/spring connection.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_58_57_34375355.jpeg)
Next, assemble the drag stack & mechanism. The washers are laying in the order they go together, from the right to left: mylar washer, click washer/gear, mylar washer, thin carbon washer, flat bottom SS washer, thick carbon washer, flat bottom SS spring washer. All washers install on the long side of the click washer. Also, notice the flat side on the SS washers. They are to be positioned so that the flat side rests against body. This blocks their movement. Lightly grease between all washers.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_59_02_343761378.jpeg)
Turn the brake screw into the brake cashing all the way, slip it into the hole and install the brake arm. Don't install the insert support yet. Make sure the flat sides on the SS washers are both down and line up each other.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_59_06_343771673.jpeg)
Push the brake arm back as far as possible and install the drag stack with the short end into the worm gear/pinion bushing making sure both SS washers are in the correct position and the flat sides are down against body. Push the top of the brake arm forward and install the insert support. Make sure there is sufficient grease there. Tighten the brake cashing just enough so there is slight pressure on the drag stack keeping all washers in their correct position. Install the o-ring on the pinion gear in the groove just behind the linear anti-reverse teeth. The o-ring reduces anti-reverse click noise. We're ready to install the pinion/worm gear. Grease the rear pinion bushing and the pinion/worm gear inside and out and slide it into place through the front of the body. Once in place I like to insert the main shaft and give it a couple of turns to make sure the click washer and drag stack are working smoothly. Then I set the main shaft aside for later installation.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_59_11_343791805.jpeg)
Grease the bearing cavity, pinion shaft and bearing, and slide it into place.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_59_11_343782039.jpeg)
Grease the front edge of the housing, screw holes and secure the bearing with the bearing holder/retainer and the 3 screws.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_59_18_343801058.jpeg)
Install the distance tube/spacer. Grease the front edge of the housing and bail trip stud.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_59_18_343801171.jpeg)
Grease and lube the main gear, not forgetting to install the spring washer between the gear and bushing. Set it aside for installation after the rotor cup has been installed.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_59_26_343822150.jpeg)
Time to install the rotor cup. Insert the bail stopper into the hole in the side of the rotor cup so that it will slide back and forth. There are 2 notches in the bail plate that hold the bail in the open or closed positions. Make sure the bail and stopper are aligned in the appropriate closed notch.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_59_36_3438470.jpeg)
Install the rotor cup by first installing the driving washer, then install the locking washer and tighten the hex nut securely. The bail stopper should slide freely from side to side. Bend the flange on one side of the locking washer up against the flat side of the hex nut and install both bail stop springs.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_59_35_34384155.jpeg)
Now that the pinion gear is correctly in place install the main gear, and grease, lube and install the main shaft.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_59_43_34386671.jpeg)
Install the spring washer between the main gear and connecting link (oscillation arm). Install the spring washer in front of the oscillation arm/connecting link at the rear of the main shaft and secure the oscillation arm/connecting link at using the e-clip. Also, install the drag knob and screw to the cashing. The cashing and drag knob screw are reverse threaded.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_59_43_343862304.jpeg)
Install the connecting link to the main gear using the e-clip.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_59_49_34389502.jpeg)
Check and lube/oil any areas or connections that may have been omitted and make sure there is adequate grease on the main and pinion gear teeth. I also like to add a drop or two of oil to the main shaft in the pinion gear. Install the side-plate, crank handle and spool, and test everything to make sure all is working properly.
All done. Wipe it off, spray a little liquid car wax on it and polish it up for a nice shine. It's ready to go catch some fish!
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_59_48_343882432.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/17004_04_02_21_1_59_51_343901088.jpeg)
Great tutorial on one of the best spinners ever, Tommy!
Best,
Fred
Very nice Tommy! 8)
Thanks. Beautiful mechanicals in that reel.
gee tom , you had me drooling with the picture of all those cardinal 6 and 7's, very very nice. great step by step pictures of overhauling the beautiful reel, never thought about packing the bearing. thank you. harryk
Another excellent tutorial from you,Tom...thanks for sharing.
Sal
I don't know how I missed this.
Great Job Tommy.
This will come in handy since I'm collecting a few of these.
My Uncle and Grandpa fished with these reels.
They were legends in their own time.
I got a 7 and it seemed really stiff. I though it was just caked grease, but after opening it up, it is just dry.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on August 11, 2017, 05:55:22 AM
I don't know how I missed this.
Great Job Tommy.
This will come in handy since I'm collecting a few of these.
My Uncle and Grandpa fished with these reels.
They were legends in their own time.
I got a 7 and it seemed really stiff. I though it was just caked grease, but after opening it up, it is just dry.
Glad it came in handy, Daron. FYI, they make torpedo handles for the 6 & 7, too. Some are pointed & some have squared ends like the one in the example above. Let me know if you would want to switch those trapezoid handles out. I think I have an extra or two, I'd have to look
I have a Cardinal 6 that is driving me nuts. (Not that I have that far to go) ;)
This reel had a broken reel foot. Fred provided me a new case.
After swapping the parts, I'm having issues with the drag knob.
The knob slips when trying to apply drag. I think the Fulcrum is bent.
I went through a 7 this evening and it went without a hitch.
These aluminum spools have some corrosion on the lip.
I sanded with emery cloth and applied some black nail polish.
I ordered a complete brake set to try and straighten the 6 out.
6 on the right, 7 on the left.
After a 12 hour shift last night. I had the new brake parts to try on the Cardinal 6.
The Fulcrum wasn't bent, but one of the ears on the drag knob mount had broke off?
There are four ears that fit in the drag knob. I only had three.
The replacement part only had two, but it looks to be made that way. It works fine now.
I completely disassembled it, and put it back together with all new drag parts.
I'm learning.
I grew up with these reels too Daron. All the dads and uncles and neighbors used them. By the time I was an age where I could earn enough money to buy one, they had fallen out of favor for more "disposable" (nice word for throw away) reels. I've been watching auctions...just have to have a few of these true classics. 8)
Quote from: Shark Hunter on August 22, 2017, 09:24:19 PM
After a 12 hour shift last night. I had the new brake parts to try on the Cardinal 6.
The Fulcrum wasn't bent, but one of the ears on the drag knob mount had broke off?
There are four ears that fit in the drag knob. I only had three.
The replacement part only had two, but it looks to be made that way. It works fine now.
I completely disassembled it, and put it back together with all new drag parts.
I'm learning.
Good for you, Daron! The first one or two almost always have some learning experiences. They're really not that difficult to go through once you've done a couple. The biggest mistake I see people make on them is to try to cut corners and not totally disassemble them for cleaning. It's really not that big of an ordeal. Also, the more you work on them you'll see where a little shim or spring washer added here or there takes up play or makes line lay a little better on the spool. It's just like anything, the more practice you get the more experienced you become and the easier it gets. :)
The Cardinal 6 and 7 definitely have one flaw.
That is the nylon piece on the rear of the oscillating arm.
I need to figure this out.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4331/36783820115_54328008b2_c.jpg)
Ouch, Daron --
Another plastic part failure.
I have a few old Cardinals and some parts that I will look through.
Will be sending you a 4, after I put a new bail on it -- and also have a few Cardinal things going out to Harry.
Just took down a couple of Cardinals to compare your broken part with these. On this old brown and tan 6x -- it appears that the connecting link has a soft metal block instead of nylon. I'll take a closer look later today.
Maybe one of these old parts bin specials have the part we need --
Maybe someone else might have this part, who could help us here.
Don't try to make that part -- you of course could -- but lets see if the right part surfaces.
Let you know...
Today's agenda is to repair 3 reels, and build out 4 Quicks with NOS parts -- then likely dinner and a movie with Sue tonight. Two movies we are looking at are "All Saints" and "Wind River".
Or maybe just a Ribeye at home with Netflix and popcorn afterwards -- depends on what headquarters wants.
Best,
Fred
Save the brass insert and the broken part to use as a pattern. I always figured I could make one out of a thick nylon washer if worse came to worse and insert the brass bushing into the shaft hole. Someone makes that part out of aluminum bar stock but I can't remember who it is and he doesn't have any listed on eBay at the moment. I wonder if it could be the same guy that makes the Penn oscillation blocks?
The arm in Fred's 6X is the last reincarnation of that part and fix for the problem. In the later years, '78 - '80, that oscillation arm with metal block attached was OEM and the standard replacement part after that. The nylon fitting is a tough find and when you do they're usually $10 +. So is the arm with metal block attached and they usually go for $10 - $12, if you can find one.
You can see the design flaw right here. The nylon is too thin near the oscillation arm. Once it cracks. Then its done.
Looks like your Cardinal project is being hijacked by antique plastic much the same as my Spinfisher project. I believe it's just something we'll be seeing even more of as time passes...but continued interest in the reels will bring the parts solutions. That reel looks great inside Daron, nice work! 8)
Interesting reels; not as familiar with them as I'd like to be. Plastics (in all their various versions) have their place, but I just shake my head as to why they are used in places that receive some stress or pressure where the part involved should be made as strong as reasonably possible. So, I'm not that familiar with engineering & manufacturing of small parts, but how much could a reel manufacturer save by making a small plastic part like this connector vs a more durable metal one? Can it really be that much? I've had a lot of trouble with plastic in a couple of particular areas in spinning reels, one being oscillation slider blocks and the other being bail arms. I'm thinking of the anti-reverse dogs on the Mitchell 300s too, which were metal for many years, then went to plastic; the metal ones, even many years old, always seem more durable then the later plastic ones, which I see all the time with chipped teeth.
Frank
What really puzzles me, is that this part is metal in the smaller Cardinal 3 and 4, but Nylon in the larger 6 and 7. Go Figure?
I have a realm of reels in my personal classification system, that'er what I think of as very well designed, but manufactured with low quality materials, either overall, or with certain parts. All Diawas I've had, are in this realm. For example, had a '70's Silvercast ultralight rod/reel combo. Snagged up, using 2 lb. test, the rod handle broke in 1/2 right above the reel seat. Put it ona fly rod and dropped it another day, and the antireverse lever broke into unrepairable pieces. Parts on Shimano products come to mind also.
Some Swedish made Abu baitcasters come close to being in this realm, but they seem to use pretty strong plastic & graphite materials.
Based on reading stuff on this forum and ownership of a Zebco Cardinal 4, I'mna put this genera(cardinals)into that realm. Probably great reels when fresh from the factory, but too many delicate parts that don't age well.
Gfish
Quote from: Shark Hunter on August 26, 2017, 04:27:15 AM
What really puzzles me, is that this part is metal in the smaller Cardinal 3 and 4, but Nylon in the larger 6 and 7. Go Figure?
I'm sure it had to do with creating a stress factor weak point. The Cardinal 3 & 4 were designed as light freshwater reels so chances were pretty small that they would encounter a lot of torque & stress on the entire mechanism. Given the 6 & 7 were considered heavy fresh/light saltwater reels they may have tried to engineer a somewhat weaker breaking point before the reel implodes or explodes under heavy stress. ;)
I am noticing some details in these photo's.
Both reels in Fred's pic have straight oscillating arms.
The Picture of my 6 and 7 have the curved arms.
I'm guessing these are first Generation.
Later to the straight arms with the improved part?
Lo and Behold,
I have found the individual that makes the upgraded parts for these.
There are two different upgrades. One for the curved arm and one for the straight.
This guy has skills.
Weak link Corrected. Thank You Zebco ;)
good morning daron, that brass one sure is pretty, how much did he charge for that one? kindly send me the info. the plastic one i sent you should be there in a day or two, take care my friend. harryk
Perfect, Daron --
Good sleuthing.
And thanks for the tip on the reel bags -- those are 25% of what I was paying -- and will work very well.
Best,
Fred
good morning fred. harryk
Quote from: Shark Hunter on August 30, 2017, 06:27:32 AM
Lo and Behold,
I have found the individual that makes the upgraded parts for these.
There are two different upgrades. One for the curved arm and one for the straight.
This guy has skills.
Weak link Corrected. Thank You Zebco ;)
NICE!
Thanks Harry. I will send you his email. They were $10 each.
Glad it worked out Fred.
These aren't as nice as your polar fleece bags, but the price is right.
Very Nice 6X arrived today.
This reel feels very smooth.
Solid Main Gear. Straight Oscillation arm and all metal parts.
The way it should have been done the first time.
A Big Shout Out to My Man Harry for providing a part that no one else on this earth had. ;)
The 6x is built just like the original Zebco 4. Solid and tough.
My Cardinal nest is Growing Tommy. ;D
Looking good, Daron! Looks like they're all in really nice condition and appears they're starting to hatch pretty fast now. ;)
good morning daron, those cardinal reels are a thing of beauty, imagine them being that old and working like a fine swiss watch, they are so smooth and very strong, use them in the best of health, enjoy them. harryk
Daron:
Can you please post or PM me the contact details of the guy who machines that little part that goes on the end of the oscillation arm?
Thanks!
Do a search for Mr. Tangles. That is the name of his ebay store. He is Based in the UK.
He doesn't have any more in stock yet.
Those are dandy Cardinals, Daron.
I understand the idea of having an expendable part in a mechanism to take the brunt of any untoward force. Kinda like a shear bolt on a lawnmower blade or a shear pin on a snowblower auger. But, on a spinning reel, like the Cardinals we discussed earlier, why put the expendable part on the oscillation mechanism? The rotor will still spin with the handle, even though the line won't be laid properly.
Frank
Is the anti reverse on these reels as strong as it appears to be in the pics ? Reminds of what D.A.M. used in some of their later models...Jeff
It is similar to the DAM Champion series to a certain extent -- however the Cardinal is a little tougher I believe -- since the stop lever is stronger and shorter for less flex.
Both are very rugged, very adequate, and over-built -- but the Cardinal A/R systems are a little better, IMO.
Neither will let you down though.
Best,
Fred
Really simple design that works well.
These reels are still as smooth as they were 40 plus years ago.
The anti-reverse dog/lever is more than adequate and will more than likely never fail if used appropriately, but like anything, if used incorrectly, or abused, they could have the possibility of bending, chipping and/or even failure. A prime example would be slamming a hookset home with the anti-reverse set and allowing slack in the rotor. I have seen people jerk so hard without tension on the dog that the dog got bent when the pinion slot slammed against the dog/lever. A hook should never be set that way no matter what the design or who the maker is.
I had several members message me on the availability of the repair kits for the oscillation mechanism.
I just bought 7 more and they are available from his store at this time.
They aren't cheap, but I think this is a great upgrade to these reels.
I can't produce this small part with hand tools.
The shipping is steep, but I wheeled and dealed.
He will work with you if you buy a few.
Just beware of the global shipping policy. It will bite you if you don't know how to get around it.
Separate shipping for each item.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ABU-CARDINAL-66-EARLY-MODEL-SWINGING-ARM-MODIFICATION-KIT/182994372382?hash=item2a9b50871e:g:Bn8AAOSwIjJZU0Mz
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ABU-CARDINAL-MODELS-4-4X-44-44X-6-6X-7-7X-66-77-SWINGING-ARM-MODIFICATION-KIT/182994372395?hash=item2a9b50872b:g:pJEAAOSwyWZZU0Ga
good morning daron, just saw on ebay some guy is selling the plastic connector for the end of the shaft for $9.99 plus $4.00 shipping, he has 5 of them. harryk
I got these brass ones for less than that Harry.
I will send you one.
not only cheaper, the brass one, i don't think will break like the plastic ones do. thank you my friend, are you gearing up for those ladyfish?. harryk
Picked up a really Nice Cardinal 7 last week.
I decided to put the new Brass oscillation slide in to see how it fits.
The only modification I had to make was to the pin. I had to sand it ever so slightly to fit.
I didn't want to drill out the piece because there isn't enough meat there already.
Works flawlessly now.
Harry, The brass and the original are on the way to you. ;)
I've really never understood why the 3 & 4 had and oscillation arm with a permanently attached block and the 6 & 7 had the nylon/plastic replaceable link until their last versions. I wonder if it was to create a weak link in the event a huge fish was hooked that could tear up the reel, or if they anticipated wear at that spot on the larger reels that wasn't a factor on the smaller 3 & 4. We'll probably never know for sure, but the brittleness of those old nylon/plastic links is unfortunate and kind of a pain in the rear.
I agree Tommy,
Problem is you never know when they are going to go.
These are kind of expensive and only show up now and then, but I think it is a great upgrade to the old #7. ;)
X2. I still can't get over the plastic bail arms & spool on the 4. Looks mabey like on the 6 & 7 too?.
Gfish
It took 25 or 30 years before the plastic 4 spools became an issue. Luckily technology has allowed for reasonable priced aluminum replacement spools. Heck, now they're within a couple bucks of new plastic replacement spools. For some reason?, the 3 plastic spools never became a real issue, which is nice.
I've never seen a big problem with the plastic bail arms or plates. A couple of cuts or slight wear from braid, maybe, but nothing significant. I've seen more wear on a lot of metal bail arms on so called "quality reels" than I have ever seen on the Cardinal plastic bail arms.
Hey Tommy, I was wondering what type grease you used on this servicing,
it looks kinda clear.
Quote from: mo65 on January 30, 2018, 06:08:58 PM
Hey Tommy, I was wondering what type grease you used on this servicing,
it looks kinda clear.
Super Lube Synthetic 21030 (http://www.super-lube.com/synthetic-multipurpose-grease-ezp-49.html), but they changed the name from Synthetic to Multi Purpose in the last year or so. No silicone to attract dirt. I love this stuff! It seldom needs to be thinned with a drop of oil. It can sit idle in a reel for a year or two and within 10 cranks forward & backward it's right back the same viscosity it was when originally installed. Plus, if I want to use it as a Dielectric I don't have to buy special grease. It has been rated, by engineers, right behind Yamaha Marine in corrosive scenarios. My reels never see salt water so the marine aspect of the grease really isn't that big of a deal to me. If I fished salt I would probably opt for Yamaha Blue, though.
The problem I see with plastic bail arms is that they break, either from dropping the reel or bumping it hard against something. Metal can break too, but more likely to shrug off a bump, or bend.
Frank
Quote from: Midway Tommy on January 29, 2018, 09:05:38 PM
I've really never understood why the 3 & 4 had and oscillation arm with a permanently attached block and the 6 & 7 had the nylon/plastic replaceable link until their last versions. I wonder if it was to create a weak link in the event a huge fish was hooked that could tear up the reel, or if they anticipated wear at that spot on the larger reels that wasn't a factor on the smaller 3 & 4. We'll probably never know for sure, but the brittleness of those old nylon/plastic links is unfortunate and kind of a pain in the rear.
I guess we can all speculate. I can't see an intentional weak link in case a big fish hits. After all, the link is only for the oscillating shaft, not in the wind of the gear train. There shouldn't be as much strain on the oscillation shaft; all it does is push the spool in and out. But, if you bump the spool backwards, it seems to me it will/could push the shaft backwards and put an impact strain in the link.
Frank
I finally scored a decent deal on a Cardinal. The 7x pictured below looks pretty good on the outside, for eBay photos. Many of these reels have suffered serious paint loss, it's hard to find one for less than $100 with any paint left on it. Even worse is a shabby repaint...I'd rather have trashed paint than a poor restoration. Right off the bat, I noticed I had another "electrical taped arbor" on this reel.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49133076633_4f83c8d6fa_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hRHRUV)(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49133868302_57410b44d2_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hRMVfo)
Sheesh...look at this sticky mess...sometimes I wonder...:-\
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49133076558_936154708b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hRHRTC)
The initial look under the hood doesn't seem too bad at first. Everything looks correct, no missing or busted parts.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49133760062_5b4fa05e19_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hRMn5b)
A closer look reveals the truth...there's a beach inside here! All this sand but no corrosion tells me I have a river bank bandit right here.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49133076398_ec821b5ea7_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hRHRQS)
After breaking down the engine I see this reel has nice bronze bushings on the drive shaft and spool shaft.(indicated by green arrows) I took one shield off the bearing so it could be flushed out properly.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49133759917_fd3cd89a4a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hRMn2F)
How about these bail parts? No wonder it hardly moved. Cleaned and reassembled the bail snapped shut perfectly.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49133567666_b007e98292_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hRLnT1)
Look at the drag knob...every last speck of the white ink washed off the letters! :'(
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49133076198_799699798c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hRHRMq)
This is a nice pile of parts...quality materials make a quality reel. The plastic connecting link on the oscillation arm is not in this reel. The "x" models have a metal connector. Notice the white letters have returned on the drag knob. My finest work with a bottle of fingernail polish...not too bad if I do say so myself! :D
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49133759787_e195139e6c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hRMmZr)
These reels have an o-ring on the pinion that dampens the anti-reverse sound. I prefer a loud AR click, so I removed the o-ring.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49133567491_d2b3a76d0d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hRLnPZ)
She feels like a new reel reassembled. The drag is strong and smooth, no growl in the gears, and the rotor seems well balanced. I used Super Lube clear grease and CorrosionX HD oil.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49133759652_c739b567b5_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hRMmX7)
Thanks for the tutorial Tommy, it was a huge help when I forgot to photograph the disassembly. Sometimes I get ahead of myself! 8)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49133567301_bbf174b8d0_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hRLnLH)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49135498473_ea76f8c48b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hRWgQM)
Terrific job, Mike!
Those "x" models are rare and sought after -- not that the more typical ones are run of the mill.
All of the ABU/Zebco Cardinals are extremely valuable and solid reels.
Thanks!
Best, Fred
Nice score, Mike! If you want to keep the white nail polish from wearing off the drag knob get a little ultra clear water based urethane and give that little band a thin coat. Nail polish has a tendency to succumb to water after awhile but the urethane will protect it and the water based stuff dries in an hour or so.
The very last versions of the regular Cardinal 6 & 7 also came with that metal block oscillation arm. If original, they have a green medallion and handle knob like your 7X. Clearly, the reel I used in the original tutorial had had the handle replaced. Things like that happen a lot on the green models because all of the parts from the first version through the last (fourth) version are interchangeable.
Nice job on those white letters! That's a nice lookin' reel you got there!
-Mike
Well not being a spin guy and reading this thread I remembered that I had a Abu spin sitting in a box some where under my bench that looks like these. I pulled it out and it is a Cardinal 6. The reel has hardly ever been fished (look at the cork on the spool), it also says saltwater proof, so I cracked it open and it looks like new. Would a reel like this be worth something and is it rare ?
Cheers:
Todd
Not particularly rare but out of production and a very nice reel. I know you say you're not a 'spin guy' but you never know. You may need a bait reel one day. At any rate; if you ever do need a spinner, that's a nice one to have.
I didn't think I was a 'spin guy' but then I tried casting one of my bait casters in the dark and it was no fun. There are situations where it's just easier (more fun) to break out the spinner.
Just my two cents worth
-Mike
Quote from: Hardy Boy on November 28, 2019, 04:48:00 PM
Well not being a spin guy and reading this thread I remembered that I had a Abu spin sitting in a box some where under my bench that looks like these. I pulled it out and it is a Cardinal 6. The reel has hardly ever been fished (look at the cork on the spool), it also says saltwater proof, so I cracked it open and it looks like new. Would a reel like this be worth something and is it rare ?
Cheers:
Todd
Naw, you'ed be better off trading it to me for a conventional. You don't wanna get infected by the "spin bug"!
Seriously though, that "saltwater proof" label is bothering me. I'd like to find a 6 or 7 and see how it holds up to weekly use in an Island sub-tropical environment with normal post trip rinsing. Here, the air seems to carry salt particals and patina is prevalent on non-aluminium metals that never get close to the ocean. I've actually come to appreciate the overuse of plastics nowadays.
I would consider a trade. Do most of these spinners not have the "saltwater proof" sticker ? I thought it was kind of odd. The reel was purchased here in BC on the West Coast so maybe they added that for this market ?
Cheers:
Todd
Quote from: Hardy Boy on November 28, 2019, 06:20:42 PM
I would consider a trade. Do most of these spinners not have the "saltwater proof" sticker ? I thought it was kind of odd. The reel was purchased here in BC on the West Coast so maybe they added that for this market ?
Cheers:
Todd
The early ones all came with that decal on the rotor. They're not really "Saltwater Proof" but they are fairly Saltwater Resistant. They still need to be regularly rinsed and cleaned, and they will show the normal saltwater affects if neglected. The metal bail plate was a special saltwater feature that only came on that version. They are really nice reels for heavy freshwater or light saltwater.
The "6" is probably the least valuable of the 3, 4, 6 & 7, and not at all rare. In the condition yours is in it would probably bring $35-$45 unless it has the original box, pamphlet, extra spool and tool. Double + if you have those extras.
Here's my "TOTALY CORROSION RESISTANT"- 4. It came from the upper midwest. So I guess it was a sales point to claim this. Maybe they all came outta the factory that way?
I've got an Avet SX 6/4 MC w/P-pro on it, that sits in my car as a back-up. I dislike the way the pinion bearing can so easily get crunched by high sunset drag numbers(stated max. drag: 14lbs.). I recently replaced that and another bearing in it.
Think about it. The 6 and 7's seem to be 50 -100$+(good condition) on da bay and not real common. PM if interested.
Ok. Tommy and I were probably typing at the same time. Go with what he's talkin' bout.
I scored on a nice 6 a few days ago. It was clean as a pin when I unwrapped it, and it cranked very smooth and easliy. I was just about to consider it already restored, and then I heard the voices in my head...the voices of Tommy, Fred, and Sal: "Are you crazy? Open that reel!" Remember how Scrooge saw Marley's image in the door knocker? I swear I saw Tom in my parts tray! :D
The first pic would make you wonder if the voices were right or not. Everything seems to be clean and recently serviced. But how well was this servicing? Move on to the second photo and note the inside of the rotor has sand and grime hanging around. Then a closer look at the gears reveals old grease mixed with newer grease...and some dirt and grit on the parts. Last but not least, the drag knob has obviously never been off, look at all that corrosion under it!
I'm listening to the voices...and doing a total breakdown! 8)
Nice score, Mike! You just proved never to assume anything on these older reels. It's pretty obvious that someone recently wiped a little of the grime off of the easily accessed engine parts. ::) I'm surprised they didn't at least clean inside the rotor a little better. You did yourself justice by completely tearing it down. It will function like a new one when you get her all back together! 8)
Quote from: mo65 on January 24, 2020, 06:22:38 PM
I scored on a nice 6 a few days ago. It was clean as a pin when I unwrapped it. Everything seems to be clean and recently serviced. But how well was this servicing?8)
Mike, good judgement on your part --
Many years ago, I learned --
No matter how clean a reel looks on the outside --
No matter how it was represented to me --
And no matter how lazy I might become sometimes --
With the exception of a handful of trusted expert sources on our site -- EVERY reel gets opened, every part degreased, reassembled, lubed with modern and fresh synthetic lubes, tuned, tested, adjusted -- before it goes in my personal arsenal.
For me -- that is where confidence in a tool starts. Knowing that it is right -- capable -- and ready.
Unfortunately, either knowingly or unknowingly -- some folks try to get by -- by opening the sideplate -- squirting a little grease and oil in various spots so it is smoother -- wiping it down on the outside with WD40 -- and calling it done.
I have even seen many professional shops do this -- then charge a guy full price for a service.
Fairly common...
Trust your own skills and experience.
Best,
Fred
Alright, Mo!
Very funny (and somewhat obscure) reference with Marley and Tom's face appearing as warnings.
Lemme know if you're getting smooth drag at the higher settings, as I am getting some slight start-up stickyness on my 6.
Quote from: Gfish on January 25, 2020, 05:13:11 AM
Alright, Mo!
Very funny (and somewhat obscure) reference with Marley and Tom's face appearing as warnings.
Lemme know if you're getting smooth drag at the higher settings, as I am getting some slight start-up stickyness on my 6.
You probably already know this, Greg, but if your reel hasn't been used for a day or so you should always test the drag by pulling a little line out each time you take it out. If they sit around for any length of time the washer surfaces have a tendency to sort of meld together, especially if the drag hasn't been loosened when they were put away. I pull & fine tune my drag every day, and usually check it multiple times each day.
Great Job Mo. Those old Cardinal's were the Cadillac in their day.
I have collected many, the weak link is that Nylon that drives the oscillation.
It is just a matter of time.
Hey Mo, you and Chester are collecting some nice spinners, did you guys run out of room yet?🙂
Thanks for your hard but enjoyable work!
Sal
Thanks fellas!
I tore the reel down yesterday...got the bail all cleaned up and snappy...and flushed the pinion bearing out. I was counting my drag components and it appears I am missing the teflon washer that goes between the click washer and the main shaft bushing. No big deal...I'm sure I have something to sub in...but I noticed Tom used an extra one on the other side of the click washer...between it and the thin carbon washer. The schematic doesn't list that part...did you add it for smoothness Tom?
I plan to experiment with the drag stack, maybe I'll discover what G's trouble is at higher settings. I intended to fish this reel after getting it tip-top, but reading all the troubles with that plastic oscillation block is making me gun-shy. I checked eBay for that guy who made the metal blocks...but like so many other replacement/upgrade parts...they never last long. I guess I'll keep my fingers crossed. 8)
Quote from: Shark Hunter on January 25, 2020, 06:39:39 AM
Great Job Mo. Those old Cardinal's were the Cadillac in their day.
I have collected many, the weak link is that Nylon that drives the oscillation.
It is just a matter of time.
Manufacturers worldwide -- with a few exceptions -- have turned to plastic, nylon, and other resin based synthetics for manufacturing their products.
This is not only true with fishing reels -- but automotive, appliances, furniture, tools, and nearly everything else -- even zippers.
While the stated reasons may be smoothness and lighter weight -- the real reason is saving $$$ and ease of manufacturing.
Plastic, in Latin -- just means a cheaper and temporary substitute for metals.
Even this would not be as much of an issue -- except parts that fail are not produced or available for replacement -- which renders the entire item...a useless item -- but an effective paperweight. Oh yeah, I forgot -- I also do not use as much paper any more -- so probably do not need that many paperweights.
I am grateful for folks who make better metal alternatives for key Tupperware parts that regularly fail.
Wish there were more of these clever key replacement products for other reels and products.
We have been programmed by corporations -- to live and get used to our new disposable product society -- all for their $$$ benefit -- not ours...
Just my opinions.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: Alto Mare on January 25, 2020, 11:38:23 AM
Hey Mo, you and Chester are collecting some nice spinners, did you guys run out of room yet?🙂
Thanks for your hard but enjoyable work!
Sal
Sal, we still have plenty of room. Just haven't found a deal on a Cardinal yet.
Quote from: mo65 on January 25, 2020, 05:06:43 PM
Thanks fellas!
I tore the reel down yesterday...got the bail all cleaned up and snappy...and flushed the pinion bearing out. I was counting my drag components and it appears I am missing the teflon washer that goes between the click washer and the main shaft bushing. No big deal...I'm sure I have something to sub in...but I noticed Tom used an extra one on the other side of the click washer...between it and the thin carbon washer. The schematic doesn't list that part...did you add it for smoothness Tom?
I plan to experiment with the drag stack, maybe I'll discover what G's trouble is at higher settings. I intended to fish this reel after getting it tip-top, but reading all the troubles with that plastic oscillation block is making me gun-shy. I checked eBay for that guy who made the metal blocks...but like so many other replacement/upgrade parts...they never last long. I guess I'll keep my fingers crossed. 8)
Mo, is that Cardinal a Zebco or Abu? I've never held either in my hands, but if it's as smooth as some of these one ball bearing Zebco spinners, I want one.
The plastic oscillation blocks show up NOS on eBay from time to time. I have one but I'm afraid to use it because the nylon is slightly sprung open and I think tightening it into place may break it. With that said; I don't think it will be too difficult to reproduce from just about any material available. My first choice would be brass but aluminum or even some 'space-age polycarbonate' would be stronger than the original material. Just two holes and some shaping. I think several could be ganged up on a single bar of material to keep clamping and drilling straight. Then they can be cut apart and shaped.
-Mike
Quote from: festus on January 25, 2020, 06:28:37 PM
Mo, is that Cardinal a Zebco or Abu? I've never held either in my hands, but if it's as smooth as some of these one ball bearing Zebco spinners, I want one.
It's a Zebco Cardinal Chester...and yes...it's a very smooth design. Some of the early Zebco spinners, like the Omegas and XBs were obviously influenced by the Cardinals.
Update: disassembled fulcrum and drag stack. No mylar wahers present on my "Zebco" Card. 6. Only option was 2 under the spool shims(some kinda brown mylar-like plastic?) from a large Shimano, that I reamed out the i.d. on. Didn't lube anything.
Also, smoothed out the 2 fiber board(kinda look like c-tex)friction washers with fine grain wet/dry sandpaper... Not great results from all this, but much improved.
Also x2, couldn't fit the fulcrum spacer back in after adding the new washers, so I left it out. Hope it don't cause problems. There is still good drag adjustment range.
Chester,
Zebco & ABU are the same reel, just a different badge or sticker. All those Zebco Cardinals were made by ABU in Sweden, shipped to Zebco in parts and assembled at the Zebco factory.
Both Mikes,
That nylon, not plastic, fitting is always spread a little, it has to be for the oscillation arm to slide in easily. Installing the pin and e-clip and pushing it together a little generally won't stress it enough to break it unless it has been used &/or abused by sitting around in sunlight. They do show up on eBay now and then, but there is also a replacement arm with a metal block, just like the one in the X models, that show up now and then on eBay.
I fish with 3 6s and 1 7 from 1970ish that still have the original nylon part. I am not at all concerned about hooking into a big fish with any of them. They will last a long time if they haven'y been abused.
Mo,
I made and added the thin Mylar washers for no other reason than "just because". The original setup works just fine.
Quote from: Gfish on January 25, 2020, 05:13:11 AM
Lemme know if you're getting smooth drag at the higher settings, as I am getting some slight start-up stickyness on my 6.
I think what we're dealing with here G is just the nature of the beast. Those Abu hard carbon washers are famous for "slight stickiness". It's not unusable...just not silky. And since that hard carbon washer is the
keyed washer we're kind of obligated to keep it. I guess if you really needed to improve it, you could sub in a
metal keyed washer with a thin carbontex on either side. For my needs, I think the ol' Abu washers will suffice. By the by...does anyone know the correct term/name for these Abu washers?
Quote from: Midway Tommy on January 25, 2020, 10:08:57 PM
I fish with 3 6s and 1 7 from 1970ish that still have the original nylon part. I am not at all concerned about hooking into a big fish with any of them. They will last a long time if they haven'y been abused.
I feel better about fishing this reel after hearing this...if it works for Tommy it should work for me too.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on January 25, 2020, 10:08:57 PM
Mo,
I made and added the thin Mylar washers for no other reason than "just because". The original setup works just fine.
I tried something a bit different. I found an Ambassadeur 5000 drag washer that was the correct OD and I ran the Dremel a few laps around the ID to correct it. Now I would have hard carbon washers on both side of the click washer. Did this improve the smoothness? Not at all...but with the extra friction surface...the thing has a sick amount of power! It was a very tight squeeze getting the brake arm back in place. Even fully backed off I still have 2 lbs., but for what I want to do with the reel that is no problem. I easily reached 10 lbs. and stopped pulling there, since I spooled the reel with 20 lb. mono.
That ol' girl cleaned up nice, Mike! Well done!
Good job Mo!
You got your "fulcrum spacer" back in too.
I'd say I now have about a 50% improvement in the start-up stickyness factor, and about the same amount of high-end drag pressure.
Thanks guys,
I made sure I didn't soak or scrub the drag knob too much this time, kept those original numbers on it. These reels are everything they are hyped up to be. A rock solid build, much like the Penn Spinfishers and Quick Finessas. I hope I can work this reel into the fishing schedule this summer...if not it still looks great resting on the shelf! 8)
Super job, Mike --
Turned out better than new -- after your fine tuning and detail skills!
I have a couple of crates of these to do some day -- not a lot, maybe less than 20.
One of my sources is sending me another "4" to toss in the crates.
I am planning (4) multi-day old-school gear trout fishing trips in the next few months --
One will be only Cardinals -- 3, 4, 6, 6X, & 7.
One DAM Quicks -- 265, 110, 1000, 1001, 220, 221, & 330.
One will be only Penns -- 716, 714, 712, 420, 4200SS, & 710.
One will be only Mitchells -- 408, 308, 720, 722, 330, 300C, 440, & 314.
For trolling on these trips -- it will only be Penn 9's & 209's.
Western and Eastern sides of the Sierras -- Bridgeport area, Twins, Courtright, Edison, Florence, and smaller waters.
Best,
Fred
good morning fred, that sounds like a nice fun thing to do fishing and comparing different reels, have a wonderful time when you go, take care my friend. harryk
The Cardinals you gave me will be fished on the "Cardinal Trip", Harry.
They are among about a hundred reels in my personal spinning arsenal -- and am looking forward to using them.
Caught some nice fat 18" Rainbows with the "3" you gave me last year.
Best, Fred
fantastic fred, use them in the best of health, guess all that tree work beefed up your muscles to help land those beautiful fish. harryk
Help. Give me a call. part for ocillating arm cardinal 6. Matt 786-741-9329
What do you need, Matt?
Best, Fred