Have the urge to build a couple boo rods . NOT the usual split bamboo type were as you need tapering jig and a lot of hand planing.
D style , Just strips ran through the planer to get 2 flat surfaces and start glueing together. While planing i start tapering the strip by cranking down form butt to tip. joe
Looking good Joe. Do a search for "poor man's quad bamboo" and you'll find something that may be useful.
-steve
Never can have too many clamps.
Can't wait to see more.
Steve
Quote from: oc1 on July 01, 2017, 06:00:13 PM
Looking good Joe. Do a search for "poor man's quad bamboo" and you'll find something that may be useful.
-steve
Thanks for the heads up...
I believe that is were i got the inspiration from , i have one 8 ft built already . that and seeing your rod and reel set up , the calling came....
I hope to make several sticks 7 foot on down to a 3 footer for bridge pile work.. joe
Quote from: swill88 on July 01, 2017, 07:16:52 PM
Never can have too many clamps.
Can't wait to see more.
Steve
No truer words spoken , if i had more i would have another lay up. Just waiting for the glue to dry . joe
In between the rain down pours ,i managed 4 sticks so far . After rough shaping them , i sit with a razor blade and scrap them to fine tune them .
The more i work with this grass , the more i am amazed how strong this is . Well back to laying up more sticks. joe
keeping a eye on this rod build, looks awesome already
Quote from: steelfish on July 05, 2017, 06:04:07 PM
keeping a eye on this rod build, looks awesome already
Me too. After trading emails with Steve a few times I've also developed an interest in bamboo. I bought a young clump of Calcutta cane and am growing my own - just started, so far it's doing well.
That looks great Joe. I remember reading something about the spine on a quad and whether the glue line should be vertical or horizontal.
-steve
I've made many bamboo rods, but we never split them. Just cured them and used them after straightening. Strong and light. Certain species have better springiness while other seem to be more "soggy" and tend to take a set more quickly.
Bamboo has seen a renaissance of sorts here in Hawaii and lots of different species are now being grown. Some are decorative, while others are for construction. The construction types are generally much thicker walled, some almost completely solid and can grow over 50 feet in height with diameters exceeding 6-7".
My thinking is that hollow core rods have better weight to strength ratios, but I've never really tested that. Certainly, there are rod manufacturers that make solid rods but the majority make hollow rods. Solid rods will take more abuse.
Intetesting project here.
That is much somplier then the traditional plane, taper, fit, glue, then build 2 or 3 layers. Interesting to check the spline to see if it changes at different points along your rod. It will likely be nuch more pronounced then the traditional build style. This may not poss much of an issue in a relatively stiff rod.
John
Quote from: oc1 on July 05, 2017, 07:59:34 PM
That looks great Joe. I remember reading something about the spine on a quad and whether the glue line should be vertical or horizontal.
-steve
Steve I have been doing horizontal lay ups ,some pith to pith = stiffer stick . pith to planed outside a lot more whipper .
I may try a vertical , i think it may use more sticks 4-7 to do a lay up , also not sure how the power fibers will react . joe
Quote from: Tightlines666 on July 06, 2017, 03:13:52 AM
Intetesting project here.
That is much somplier then the traditional plane, taper, fit, glue, then build 2 or 3 layers. Interesting to check the spline to see if it changes at different points along your rod. It will likely be nuch more pronounced then the traditional build style. This may not poss much of an issue in a relatively stiff rod.
John
John When i lay up the sticks ,i stagger the growth nods. When i plane the stick the butt may be 3/8 thick and the tip 1/16 thick in 8 foot .
3 stick lay up , After rough shaping ,than i start making the action i want by width ,thickness and rounding the bottom of the blank. joe
I read somewhere that the glue joint dominates and determines the spine. Vertical it is very stiff but prone to rolling over (twisting). Horizontal it is not so stiff but very stable. That was probably on Rod Building Forum in the bamboo section. There's a lot of information there but they are not very active.
Joe, what did you dry them with?
-steve
;D Well here comes the experiment . I did not dry them .. The dead fall had already air dried and the green one `s i cut and glued .
Mix and matched , i will take pictures later today . joe
:) I will start with the Green stick fresh cut ,4 pieces on lay up 7 foot long salt water rod .
After glue sets up i start trimming the fat on the table saw . Basicly look to get the blank straight .
After some rough shaping i do a load test . Here is a 3 pound load test . this one has a good ark ,it just needs a little tip work .
To day i will start rubbing boiled linseed oil and fine tuning . joe
??? Same green stick , working at getting a reel mounted . Fore grip has a tunnel for the reel foot . The butt tang is straight .
Made a dummy tang so i can make a cover handle with a little tunnel for the rear reel foot. Nice friction fit .
I think it is a nice improvement than my first stick with just the fore grip tunnel and copper ring for the rear. joe
Man, that's terrific Joe. Stout rod too. Are you strapping it against the 2x4 on the table saw or doing it freehand.
-steve
I cut free hand . the aluminum box tube is my fence/ straight edge . I keep it about 8 inches away from the blade . joe
I have one 5 foot stick done , 5 running guides plus tip top. looks to be a fish magnet. joe
koi don't count. :)
-steve
Very interested in this thread, Joe, keep up the good work.
Sid
??? Fish in a barrel don`t count . I still think it was a training session . loa
Sid I have 8 more to go, just waiting on guids . joe
Joe, I've got two clumps of bamboo growing as of a few weeks ago. In another year I might have some home-grown to try... and where in FL are you?
Valrico fl Brandon -Tampa area.
Great work Joe....have a question regarding bamboo....in my So Calif area we have lots of Arundo....a type of reed or bamboo...It's historically used for making reeds for wind instruments....Do you think this may work for a fishing rod? Bill
I really don`t know . How big and thick is it ? One of my neighbors has a type of bamboo that is thin 3/4 thick and long 12 -16 feet that i tried to dry out , with no real success . All i can say is try it . Another neighbor has the bamboo that i have been using 20 -30 foot and 3 -4 inches thick . I don`t know the what technical name is , other than [ pita] take as much as you want and than some . joe
The best for whole cane rods is Calcutta, Dendrocalamus strictus. Sid has a clump. It has been imported into the US for fishing rods since 1850. It is very strong but does not have a fast taper or fast action. Even better for light and ultra-light work is Calcutta with a Chinese cane pole tip section. I think the Chinese is Phyllostachys aurea. The tips are nice, but the butt and mid-section are not strong enough for anything more than a bream pole.
For split cane the best is reported to be Tonken, Arundinaria amabilis (aka: Pseudosasa amabilis). It has thick walls, tight grain (bundles) and does not seem to have prominent leaf/branch scars. I have never seen any Tonkin in person but the photos look just like the decorative stuff they sell in the landscape store.
Its weird because every type has distinctive characteristics. We have a tall one with 2 inch butts that is locally common and was used for ulua rods, gaffs, boat hooks, outriggers and all sorts of stuff back in the day. I suspect it is Phyllostachys acuta but don't know for sure. The walls are not thick but it is very strong and has a fast action. The tips zig zag too much to make a light casting rod. We have a big thick yellow one with green stripes (Bambusa vulgaris) but the grain/bundles are not tight so it is weak and prone to pest and microbe damage. We have budddha (Bambusa ventricosa) which is incredibly thick, tight, strong and very heavy. It is useless for fishing rods but makes a cool looking handle. Every species is different, every application is different and green cane behaves differently from dry came. You need to play around with it until you find something that works like Joe has.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on July 15, 2017, 08:01:31 AM
The best for whole cane rods is Calcutta, Dendrocalamus strictus. Sid has a clump.
Yeah, a very small clump right now, it's been in the ground a little over a week. It's got one culm that is just a little taller than I am and another smaller shoot from which the cutting was started. I selected a dowel last night to try to use to train this thing to grow straighter.... not sure what to do with it yet.... I need to see how this thing grows for another few weeks/months before I feel comfortable I know what I'm doing, but for now the dowel will be lashed near the tip to try to straighten the culm growth.
That will be interesting to watch Sid. You would want the culms to mature, harden and begin to yellow before cutting because, otherwise, they will have little strength. The first culms may mature at twenty feet high. An old clump can be 50-60 feet high. The tops will zig zag too much and be trimmed away. The bottom will be too thick and trimmed away. The fishing pole part will be somewhere in between. There are references to using Calcutta to make split bamboo rods too, especially during that time when our relations with China were not so good and Tonkin cane was hard to get.
-steve
Well # 9 stick is made , Not sure if if I should put guides on it or a cue tip.
I was with my father over the weekend telling him about the stick . He goes to his toy box and hands me some guilds.
Proceeds to tell me these are monell guilds that were on his father `s Calcutta sticks . I am going to give them a light cleaning and use them some pic joe
i don't know if I'd soak them but give them a light brush with white vinegar. it will take off a lot of verdigris.
Quote from: thorhammer on July 17, 2017, 02:53:52 PM
i don't know if I'd soak them but give them a light brush with white vinegar. it will take off a lot of verdigris.
I bet they're nickel silver and a vinegar soak would be good for them.
Good point.
I wouldn't touch them. They look perfect.
-steve
I agree with Steve - they look great!
Can you just polish the insides?
Steve
Personally, I would chuck up a piece of tapered dowel of the approximate size and spin it inside the eye of the guide with a drill motor. Wood will rub down any rough spots but not scratch. You could use buffs and very light abrasive or polishing compound too, but the dowel is quick and easy. Or, just go fishing and let the line polish the eyes. At some point, you might want to twist a cotton swab in each eye by hand. The cotton fibers will catch on any old line groves that would require resurfacing.
Finding vintage large diameter tip tops is not impossible, but difficult. Finding tip tops of the right size and matching the rest of the guides is almost impossible. I've never seen running guides like yours. They look really sturdy and sort of go with the roller tips.
-steve
From a restoration standpoint it is important to remove the verdigris to halt the oxidation and prevent further corrosion. Vinegar will do that well without removing the desireable patina, just the corrosion. All the corrosion needs is a little moisture to continue its destructive path.
Sid, verdigris is actually a protective coating that prevents further oxidation. It is copper carbonate. It is akin to the protective layer of oxidation that forms on stainless steel and aluminum when exposed to the atmosphere. Verdigris should not be confused with bronze disease which is also greenish but is copper chloride. The chlorides cause very destructive pitting. If you can flick the green stuff off with your fingernail it is bronze disease. If you cannot flick it off it is verdigris.
-steve
Number 9 with guides on .. fished it on Tuesday , only caught small grouper and grunts . Never bent the pole !!!! Maybe next time joe
Quote from: oc1 on July 18, 2017, 08:16:43 PM
Sid, verdigris is actually a protective coating that prevents further oxidation. It is copper carbonate. It is akin to the protective layer of oxidation that forms on stainless steel and aluminum when exposed to the atmosphere. Verdigris should not be confused with bronze disease which is also greenish but is copper chloride. The chlorides cause very destructive pitting. If you can flick the green stuff off with your fingernail it is bronze disease. If you cannot flick it off it is verdigris.
-steve
Thanks, Steve. Had I thought it through I would've known that now, I've done a little reading the last few days. But, in the presence of sea water most green stuff on brass, bronze or nickel silver is going to be copper chloride.... but you're right, there should be a distinction between verdigris and the other more pitting copper salts.
Why are these rods called a "quad"? What's "quad" about this?
:) Coined the poor man`s quad . Quadrangle a plane figure having four angles and four sides . That`s how they start off , but when i get finish with them they are more D shaped .. When it comes down to the butt it could be any shape " Mood of the day "
Working on # 10 . Still need to work out action and thin it down width wise . Trying to build it to fit a set of guides i have . joe
:o Taped the guides on and started loading the pole ,move a couple guides and got a nice ark . Than i really gave it the test of more than enough load ,Crack and started going limp in the middle of the rod . After looking at it , i took the belt sander to it and found that were i put pith to pith it delaminated . So i sanded 16 inches on each side and down to clean power fibers . Glued a new piece in and refinished .
This is another plus for building bamboo rods this way , easy fixes . pic of the glued repair before and after finish.
In stalled the guids . I am happy with the action . Just need to pack -readjust some thread work and clear coat one more time. joe
man that's cool. love the red agate.
;D Well i broke another stick . Out last night caught sharks ,snappers and a few groupers. Fought a big grouper for 18 -20 minutes and had him heading for the net .
After the second miss /being poked and pissed ,he headed south snap and 30 seconds later bink goes the leader to mono line 15lb connection . I`am laughing and my buddy got the look of worry ,saying you just broke your rod . Yere but i know what it took to break it , besides i think i can fix it ... A man`s got to know what the limits are . Hindsight using a center pin , i am the drag control . Should have let him make another run ... joe
Good excuse to make another one.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on August 05, 2017, 08:11:55 AM
Good excuse to make another one.
-steve
:) Not that i need a excuse to make another one , although i have one in the works . I was able to fix the broken one . I added a little more back bone and aggressive belt sanded a ramp on both side of the break and filled in several layers . Load test seam to be ok . pic before and after , joe
Finally finished making bamboo rods for a wile. 11 in all . The one`s i have fished with Iam happy with, now just waiting for the water to cool down . Than i can take the big boy`s out . A group picture. joe
What a collection. Looking good Joe.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on August 22, 2017, 06:39:16 PM
What a collection. Looking good Joe.
-steve
Thanks for the inspirational photo`s of your fishing poles Steve . joe
New neighbors moved in and cleaned up the back yard . There was a stand of bamboo of what i believe is Phyllostachys Vivax 'Aureocaulis'
Curiosity got the best of me and i grabbed some . IT is about 1 inch diameters . The green stripe disappears when it drys out.
Since the diameter is small , the strips were scraped and sanded clean for glue up .
No real need for tapering the strips . I did not take pictures of the build up , but used the same technique as before .
Stick is 60 inches long , a tick over 1 inch in the ferrule / grip area and .450 at the tip . This was inspired by a lonely butt i have .
You did a great job of straightening it. Not easy to do. We have a bamboo that looks like that. However, I think a bunch of different varieties have the yellow with green stripe. Anyway, the trouble we have with our stuff is that the wood gets punky even if it's been varnished. My son thinks you need to first pressure treat it with borate. You can use something like the Timbor product. Pressure treating sticks that are long and skinny in a piece of galvanized pipe isn't too hard. The Tombor is not cheap though.
-steve
I will see how this goes , I do know what your saying about the pressure inpregnating .
The guys around here like to use Cactus Juice Stabilizing resin .
I like to keep it old school oil and shellac and some times paste wax .
I think Cactus Juice is more expensive than Timbor but Cactus Juice would work a whole lot better. You have to heat it to about 200F to make the Cactus Juice go off though. I've done some small things in an old toaster oven and it's sort of creepy when the fumes start pouring out of the cracks.
You've probably read how they used to cure bamboo by soaking it in seawater. Like the borate, the seawater soak helps the wood resist rot. I floated a culm for almost a month (I think). But, just as I decided that must be enough it disappeared. Sinking it to the bottom with a weight and lay line and then grappling it back up would have the added benefit of increased pressure.
Our old friend Sid (sdlehr) who used to hang out here found a commercial source of potted calcutta cane. Last I heard, he had planted it in his S. Florida back yard and it was growing like a weed. Calcutta is the best for whole cane rods. Tonkin cane is the best for split bamboo.
-s