Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: Keta on August 25, 2017, 03:24:26 PM



Title: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on August 25, 2017, 03:24:26 PM
I recently got my hands on 2 Seaboy 190's and 1 185 and was curious as to why they are not more common?  Longbeach 60 and 65 size, Jigmaster  drag stack and faster than the 2.5:1 60/65 at 3.1:1. 

These reels look like just what I feel is needed for mid-water (100'-250') rockfish and lingcod.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on August 25, 2017, 03:48:16 PM
  I've wondered this myself Lee...it's a faster stronger LB60...for less? Well...not less anymore. They've become a hit on fleabay. 8)


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on August 27, 2017, 05:26:25 AM
So far I see a good reel when a higher speed reel can not provide the torque needed, over 4:1 is a PIA at times.  


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: akfish on August 27, 2017, 06:49:27 AM
Those reels were made for only few years, although MysticParts seems to indicate they are still in production. While they are more than adequate for some uses, they have absolutely no bling so customers weren't too impressed. They didn't even have metal rings on the side plates. And up here at least, people wanting a reel in that class always seem to want a level wind.

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mizmo67 on August 29, 2017, 06:37:33 AM
Those reels were made for only few years, although MysticParts seems to indicate they are still in production. While they are more than adequate for some uses, they have absolutely no bling so customers weren't too impressed. They didn't even have metal rings on the side plates. And up here at least, people wanting a reel in that class always seem to want a level wind.

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

I think that specs page wasn't update. I'll have to see if Scotty remembers when they phased out and fix it.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on January 29, 2018, 10:51:32 AM
The Mystic spec page for the Seaboy lists the post 190 reels as having a 3.1:1 retrieve ratio, but in the paragraph below it mentions a 3.5:1 ratio, and also a stainless pinion in later models:  https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/ReelSpecs/PennSeaboy.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/ReelSpecs/PennSeaboy.aspx)

185 and 190 Seaboy (1990s) - The next generation of the famous seaboy reels feature newly styled high strength side plates, a lightweight black anodized aluminum spool and a powerful 3.5:1 Gear ratio. Equipped with powerful gears, these USA-made reels are the reels to wind up with, whether you're drifting, chumming, working a wreck or bottom fishing. Great for fish like flounder, cod, sea bass, and even large catfish. The Penn Seaboy® was upgraded in 2004 for even better performance and durability. New features include a larger handle, machined-aluminum spool, stainless steel pinion, and improved free spool.(2004 Penn Catalog)

I "went" looking for these reels on the web and couldn't find much, but saw a Seaboy 190 with 3.1:1 ratio marked on the sideplate.

Is the higher 3.5:1 ratio related to the newer SS pinion, or?   Can the 3.1:1 reels be changed to the higher ratio?  


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackles old online store over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Ron Jones on January 29, 2018, 11:57:27 AM
I have seen boxes with both ratios. The new 190 with a SS 66 stand would be a fantastic work horse.
Ron


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on February 21, 2018, 01:21:19 PM
This is a mystery...  trying to find out about the 3.5:1 gear ratio.  I have had my hands on 6 of these reels, and counting spool revolutions to one handle crank comes out to just barely over three - looks like a 3.1:1 ratio.   Several of these reels are marked gear ratio 3.5:1, but by my primitive measurement always counts a 3.1:1 ratio.   Should take one apart to count the teeth.   I contacted Scotts and Tony at Penn, and haven't found an answer about the higher ratio yet.  Has someone been through this exercise already? ::)


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on February 21, 2018, 02:43:28 PM
  Should take one apart to count the teeth.  

Measure the gears when you do.... :D.    I have 2 190's and 1 185 now and I can take them apart and see too.  I was only going to do 1 for the gear size spread sheet but I can count the teeth on all 3.  I decided to list the reels the gears are in too.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: oc1 on February 21, 2018, 09:37:04 PM
Reel makers have always lied about their gear rations.  Just divide the number of main gear teeth by the number of pinion teeth to get the correct number.
-steve


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on February 22, 2018, 09:56:11 AM
Measure the gears when you do.... :D.    

Lee, I will do that, but don't have a micrometer.  I'll use a carpenters tape measure, measure to the nearest 1/32 inch, if that will suffice :)


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on February 22, 2018, 10:50:45 AM
A caliper will be needed.  Penn tolerances are hard enough to deal with.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on March 05, 2018, 10:26:25 AM
   Does anyone know if the 190's spool will drop into a LB65? The 190 takes LB65 posts and stand, but Scott's lists the 190 spool as only fitting the 190.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 05, 2018, 11:23:28 AM
  Does anyone know if the 190's spool will drop into a LB65? The 190 takes LB65 posts and stand, but Scott's lists the 190 spool as only fitting the 190.

Does the 65 spool have the same diameter as the 60?   If yes, then I think your answer is "yes,"  Mo.    I think a SB190 spool will drop into an extra-wide LB60 ;D

Can't resist a franken-reel puzzler, ::) but someone else probably has a better answer.

Here is another post that dances around the subject:  http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=15205.0


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Bryan Young on March 05, 2018, 11:47:30 AM
Hi Lee,

Which Jigmaster bars in 500, 99 or 501 width?  Please let me know.

Bryan


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 05, 2018, 02:17:27 PM
99 will be close.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Carl L on March 05, 2018, 05:13:52 PM
Question was lb65 vs 190 spool ... I do'nt think that is anyway possible.. long beach 65 has green string, 190 has black..


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 05, 2018, 07:15:24 PM
Question was lb65 vs 190 spool ... I do'nt think that is anyway possible.. long beach 65 has green string, 190 has black..

The 190 in the photo is a pre 1990, we are talking post 1990 Seaboy 190.  The pre 1990 Seaboy 190 uses the smaller diameter 29-100 spool, the Post 1990 Seaboy 190 uses a 29-190 spool that is close to if not the same diameter as a 29-65 spool.  I have a 29M-65 spool and a 29L-190 spool, I'll compare them and see what's different.

What I need is a 29L-85 to convert a 190 to a 185.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Carl L on March 05, 2018, 07:47:29 PM
I was wondering about that, as Mystic Reel Parts specs were not definative.. thanks for the comment..


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 05, 2018, 08:44:02 PM
It is cornfusing.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: basto on March 05, 2018, 10:18:35 PM
YES, The 190 alloy spool certainly does fit a 65 long beach. I have one on mine because I thought the stainless spool was too heavy. When I had my 190, I put a 30-66 stand on it and all was fine, but when I put the 30-66 stand on my 65 lb, the spool rubbed on the stand, but a couple minutes with a small file on the stand would fix that.
Basto


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 06, 2018, 05:06:38 AM

What I need is a 29L-85 to convert a 190 to a 185.

Lee, I had the same idea, and intend to use a stainless LB60 spool for the purpose.   

Also, I believe the bars from a Mag 970 will fit the Seaboy 185 as another part of that conversion.   It would be a sacrifice to the 970, but I'm optimistically waiting for a 970 frame to be produced.   ;D


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: thorhammer on March 06, 2018, 05:38:03 AM
501 /506 bars should work; don't sacrifice a 970! :)


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 06, 2018, 05:51:56 AM
I don't remember but I think I tried 501 posts in the 185 and they did not work, I'll them again.  


What I need is a 29L-85 to convert a 190 to a 185.

Lee, I had the same idea, and intend to use a stainless LB60 spool for the purpose.  

Also, I believe the bars from a Mag 970 will fit the Seaboy 185 as another part of that conversion.   It would be a sacrifice to the 970, but I'm optimistically waiting for a 970 frame to be produced.   ;D

I'm planning on trying to cut down frame bars to put on my 185 to replace the frame posts.  Ted (Maxed) gave me a early Long Beach 60 stand that fit the 185 and I put a SS 30-65 stand on one of the 190's.  I plan on putting Brian's 112H/500 drag kits in the reels and should easily get the 15# of drag I want. Hopefully the reel will be up to that much drag, and inshore Pacific halibut.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: thorhammer on March 06, 2018, 07:12:47 AM
I didnt try it but am making an assumption because 500 posts fit the 990. Different plate dimension so it may not work.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 06, 2018, 07:41:01 AM
The post 1990 Seaboy 180 frame posts are 1.78", the Jigmaster 501's ones are 1.63".


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 06, 2018, 07:46:19 AM
The post 1990 Seaboy 180 frame posts are 1.78", the Jigmaster 501's ones are 1.63".

Yup.   Those 970 bars have a lot of places to go (Seaboy 185, and Sailfisher 130) BUT ONLY after the Black Pearl 970 frame becomes available  ;D

Lee, I know you are a machine-wiz...  Hope you can figure out how to make the bars from something else.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Alto Mare on March 06, 2018, 08:36:06 AM
Here is one reel that could really use  upgrades on chromed parts. I've never seen a reel that deteriorates as fast as the Seaboy does, but not the earlier ones, those are just as tough as the rest of the Penn reels.

Sal


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 06, 2018, 09:10:58 AM
Here is one reel that could really use  upgrades on chromed parts. I've never seen a reel that deteriorates as fast as the Seaboy does, but not the earlier ones, those are just as tough as the rest of the Penn reels.

Sal

Yes, the graphite Seaboys in my possession have a lot of corrosion on the outer metal parts.  I bought them as a lot, and assumed it was because they were party boat reels that spent a lot of time on deck, or were otherwise neglected.  Sal, are you suggesting that the heavy corrosion because of the quality of the parts, or?

Stainless posts, bars, seats, and handles (and anything else) would look good on them.  

If I squeeze the plates together at the top of the reel, there is visible flex in the graphite.   Not sure how that compares with fishing conditions, but maybe adding a post at the top would be worthwhile.  


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Alto Mare on March 06, 2018, 01:35:30 PM
Here is one reel that could really use  upgrades on chromed parts. I've never seen a reel that deteriorates as fast as the Seaboy does, but not the earlier ones, those are just as tough as the rest of the Penn reels.

Sal

Yes, the graphite Seaboys in my possession have a lot of corrosion on the outer metal parts.  I bought them as a lot, and assumed it was because they were party boat reels that spent a lot of time on deck, or were otherwise neglected.  Sal, are you suggesting that the heavy corrosion because of the quality of the parts, or?

 
The quality of the parts Joe. I guess keeping an eye on them might help. I personally didn't like the way they were reacting in such a short time, so I decided to get rid of all 4 I had. This was approximately 10 years ago.
Of course this is just my personal opinion.

Sal


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 06, 2018, 01:56:46 PM

The quality of the parts Joe. I guess keeping an eye on them might help. I personally didn't like the way they were reacting in such a short time, so I decided to get rid of all 4 I had. This was approximately 10 years ago.


Hmm, sounds like motivation for a Longbeach/Seaboy franken-reel  ;)


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mhc on March 06, 2018, 02:14:05 PM

The quality of the parts Joe. I guess keeping an eye on them might help. I personally didn't like the way they were reacting in such a short time, so I decided to get rid of all 4 I had. This was approximately 10 years ago.


Hmm, sounds like motivation for a Longbeach/Seaboy franken-reel  ;)

Something like this LB 60 frame I made a while back using 506 parts and 2mm thick spacer rings;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_06_03_18_2_50_38_23802108.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_06_03_18_2_50_32_2380193.jpeg)

I'll probably use Alan c's squidder bars when I narrow my 190 to 185 width.

Mike


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 06, 2018, 02:24:50 PM
Once again, Mike knocks it out of the park! ;D :o 8)


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on March 07, 2018, 08:31:20 AM
   I see some of you are narrowing your 190s to 185s...does anyone want to sell their 190 spool?


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 07, 2018, 09:03:07 AM
   I see some of you are narrowing your 190s to 185s...does anyone want to sell their 190 spool?

I'll get in touch with you, Mo.  Hope you're not in a hurry.  /Joe


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on March 07, 2018, 09:14:41 AM

I'll get in touch with you, Mo.  Hope you're not in a hurry.  /Joe

   No hurry at all Joe. I need an aluminum spool in the LB65 size for a project I'm going to undertake, and surprisingly, this size spool in aluminum is not an easy find. There are a few old Newells out there but that seems to be about it. 8)


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 07, 2018, 01:15:02 PM

I'll get in touch with you, Mo.  Hope you're not in a hurry.  /Joe

   No hurry at all Joe. I need an aluminum spool in the LB65 size for a project I'm going to undertake, and surprisingly, this size spool in aluminum is not an easy find. There are a few old Newells out there but that seems to be about it. 8)

Since you're not in a hurry, I went and looked for it right away ;D  The aluminum spool I pulled from the 190 has "112H-1" stamped on the side.  Thought it looked familiar.  Must be a 112H spool with a shorter shaft.  I'll PM you, Mo.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Ron Jones on March 07, 2018, 04:36:54 PM
The 112 uses the 66 base, same size as the 190. The Chinese 190 spool is a 112H spool that fits a different pinion and is not set up for bearings. The LB65 is a slow, small dragged 112H.
Ron


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mhc on March 08, 2018, 04:56:04 AM

I'll get in touch with you, Mo.  Hope you're not in a hurry.  /Joe

   No hurry at all Joe. I need an aluminum spool in the LB65 size for a project I'm going to undertake, and surprisingly, this size spool in aluminum is not an easy find. There are a few old Newells out there but that seems to be about it. 8)

Since you're not in a hurry, I went and looked for it right away ;D  The aluminum spool I pulled from the 190 has "112H-1" stamped on the side.  Thought it looked familiar.  Must be a 112H spool with a shorter shaft.  I'll PM you, Mo.

Sounds like Joe has got you covered Mo - if you need two I'll have a spare 190 spool I could send you when I narrow my 190.

Mike


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 08, 2018, 06:54:31 AM
Am I making a valid inference from what Sal and Ron have said?  These post-1990 Seaboy reels are "made in USA" but some of the parts are made in China?  That would explain a perceived difference in metal quality, and also the lack of information on these reels.  Maybe these Seaboys are "black sheep" from a period where manufacturing was starting to transition overseas.  

I don't want to prejudice Chinese-made Penns, because a lot of guys say that the current reel are of good quality.  Besides, I'm a dragon ;)

I got a bunch of Seaboys cheap and they will make great upgrade projects!  Dilly dilly!


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 08, 2018, 07:27:35 AM
One of my 190's and the 185 have SS bridge plates stands.  The only possible weak parts I see would be the "plastic" side plates and standard Penn posts.  Two of mine have SS gear sleeves and AR dogs, a 15-99 dog works.  I will know more once I hook and hopefully land a nice Pacific halibut with it and see how strong/weak this reel is.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Ron Jones on March 08, 2018, 07:31:01 AM
I could be wrong, but I thought all the post 1990 190s were made in China during the "bad" years.
Ron


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 08, 2018, 07:42:42 AM
I could be wrong, but I thought all the post 1990 190s were made in China during the "bad" years.
Ron

Ron, this one clearly says made in USA, but what you are saying about China-made parts makes sense.  Can you give more details about the "bad years"?   I'd be interested to know, if only for historical knowledge.



Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 08, 2018, 08:07:47 AM
I will know more once I hook and hopefully land a nice Pacific halibut with it and see how strong/weak this reel is.

When the reel survives that ordeal, it will certainly quiet any controversy!


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on March 08, 2018, 12:23:37 PM
  The only possible weak parts I see would be the "plastic" side plates and standard Penn posts. 

   I don't have one of these reels to verify this...but the parts photo from Scott's shows a brass pinion. I'd have to think that would be your weak link if you were going to test the reel's strength.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 08, 2018, 12:45:12 PM
The 190 I have in my hand does not say Made in USA on it, I will check the other 2 post 1900 Seaboys.

All 3 of my post 1990 Seaboy reels have SS Pinion and brass main gears Mo.  I could strip the main gear but my target drag is only 15# and will put it on a 30# rod. 15# is more than doable with Bryan's 112H/500 drag kits.  If Pac butts are too tough they will make a good deep/mid water lingcod/rockcod reel.



Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mhc on March 08, 2018, 02:05:39 PM
I've got one 190 marked 3.1:1 that does not have made in USA and another 190 marked 3.5:1 that does have made in USA on the tail plate like the one Joe is showing. I haven't looked at the pinions yet.

Mike


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 08, 2018, 02:25:49 PM
My 185 is marked like the one above, a SS pinion and brass gear.  The Bridge plate is brass.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Alto Mare on March 08, 2018, 03:31:04 PM
The 13-85 pinion is pretty thick. With that said, I personally don't like this reel, but I'm not saying you shouldn't either :)


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on March 08, 2018, 04:00:03 PM
All 3 of my post 1990 Seaboy reels have SS Pinion and brass main gears Mo.  I could strip the main gear but my target drag is only 15# and will put it on a 30# rod.

   That's good news Lee. I'd say you'll be a lot less likely to run into trouble with the ss pinion...especially staying under 15 pounds max.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on March 08, 2018, 05:12:28 PM
   Hey guys...how does that #13-185 pinion compare in size to the #13-85 pinion?


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 09, 2018, 06:29:22 AM
I personally don't like this reel, but I'm not saying you shouldn't either :)

They are sort of ugly and must not have sold well.  

I was trying to find a 29L spool for a Longbeach 60 project (actually a 65N because I had a nice set of older 65 sideplates I used) for a specific use when I got side tracked by these.  I like the lower gear ratio with a jigmaster drag stack and if the frame can hold up to 15# of drag it should work for my needs, 30-60 pound Pacific halibut less than 300' deep.  With the stock drag set I can get 11# of drag now.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 09, 2018, 08:03:11 AM
I was trying to find a 29L spool for a Longbeach 60 project

Lee, isn't this what I PMed you about?   Maybe I'm confused, but I thought the LB60 spool was the same as the SB185.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/29L-85.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/29L-85.aspx)
Do you need two then?  


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackles old online store over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 09, 2018, 07:38:30 PM
One will make me happy, thank you.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 12, 2018, 04:49:16 AM
Bought a Seaboy lot for a very low price recently, spurred on by the interest I saw here, and have five now.  Last night I started to disassemble them.
•Two did not say "made in USA."
•Two came with non-metal bait clickers (not the same two as above).
•Four are 190's, one is a 185.

I haven't taken any bridges apart yet, but all look like brass, with brass pinions.  I think some have a steel bridge pin, and maybe a steel main.  I'm going to need to find a couple of stainless pinions.

Also in the pic is a Long Beach 60; very comparable to the 185 next to it.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 12, 2018, 06:35:30 AM
They use a 13-155 pinion gear, Scott's does not have them but they come up on eBay.  The 5-165 main gear is not as common.  Keep some of the reels for parts.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mhc on March 13, 2018, 04:43:15 AM
Bought a Seaboy lot for a very low price recently, spurred on by the interest I saw here, .......

I picked up the smaller lot with 4 reels from the same seller Joe, I haven't opened them yet except pulling the tail plate off of one to start making the spacer rings for my 190 to 185 conversion.
The one I have taken the plate off of has all brass internals - I'm hoping to open the others (plus another 190 I had bought in Aus) soon and take a few photos, count the teeth on the main and pinion gears of the 3.5:1 and 3.1:1 branded models, etc. I'll dig up a 13-85 pinion as well to answer Mo's question about the pinion sizes.

Lee, the seaboys Joe picked up are post 190 with the 5-185 main and 13-185 pinions, but it's still a good suggestion to keep a few for parts though the post 90 gears are on Scott's 'endangered' list - not as bad as the extinct pre 1990 gears 5-165 and 13-155 yet, but they will be when Scott's run out.

Mike


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 13, 2018, 05:04:02 AM
Lee, the seaboys Joe picked up are post 190 with the 5-185 main and 13-185 pinions, but it's still a good suggestion to keep a few for parts though the post 90 gears are on Scott's 'endangered' list - not as bad as the extinct pre 1990 gears 5-165 and 13-155 yet, but they will be when Scott's run out.

Mike

Damn, CRS sucks.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 13, 2018, 05:16:08 AM
Mike and Lee interested in hotrodding the the same reel....  Hmmmm.  Mike invents reel frame prototypes, and Lee cuts stainless steel parts...  What could come of this?    ;D ::) :o

"CRS" - Catholic Relief Services - no - found the intended meaning in the onlline "Urban Dictionary"  8)  I think Penn's whole intention with this 1990 Seaboy series was to throw up a smokescreen of confusion -- China/USA, gear ratios, different parts.  We'll get through it. :P


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 13, 2018, 05:30:17 AM
15-99 dogs work in my 185 and I used the last 2 SS ones I had on mine.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mhc on March 13, 2018, 05:31:39 AM
Damn, CRS sucks.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 13, 2018, 05:32:09 AM
15-99 dogs work in my 185 and I used the last 2 SS ones I had on mine.

DANG!  Do you have those laser-cut, or do you hand-cut them?


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 13, 2018, 05:38:42 AM
15-99 dogs work in my 185 and I used the last 2 SS ones I had on mine.

DANG!  Do you have those laser-cut, or do you hand-cut them?

Water cut, I have another cutting order but the shop is busy with big jobs.



Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mhc on March 14, 2018, 01:46:51 AM
I've made a bit of progress with my 190 to 185 conversion frame today and took a few photos of the process I used. I thought about starting a new thread but decided to post it here to keep all the post 90 seaboy stuff together - hope you don't mind Lee.

Started by marking the inside & outside diameters and the radius of the side plate screws on the 2mm 316 SS sheet;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_14_03_18_1_39_54_23927119.jpeg)

The tail plate I used as a template for the screw holes had a couple of hairline cracks on the inside around the bearing. I couldn't unscrew the bearing - it turned but didn't move, thinking the thread was stripped I drilled it out then drilled a 9.5 mm hole in the plate and the 2mm sheet so I could clamp the plate to the sheet with an old gear sleeve. The center of the holes were marked through the existing holes with a 3.5 mm drill in a press.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_14_03_18_1_40_27_239281713.jpeg)

Before the holes were drilled, I marked the second hole for the 146 squidder bars;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_14_03_18_1_42_41_239312254.jpeg)

The top hole for the spacer bars and the stand were drilled to 3.3 3.5 mm. The second spacer post hole for the frame is 5-40 tapped into the 2 mm sheet and the bottom hole for the 146 spacer bar is countersunk to sit flush under the plates.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_14_03_18_1_41_16_239291175.jpeg)

Just for something different, I thought I would add a hook retainer to the left side. The spacer rings roughed out;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_14_03_18_1_42_10_2393031.jpeg)

Cleaned up and half polished;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_14_03_18_1_43_03_23932264.jpeg)

Test fit with the 146 frame components;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_14_03_18_1_44_20_239342303.jpeg)

And finally with the side plates;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_14_03_18_1_43_57_23933879.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_14_03_18_1_44_42_23935638.jpeg)

Now on to the internals - well not now but soon.  ;D

Mike

Edit: The through holes are 3.5 mm not 3.3 mm as originally stated.





Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 14, 2018, 04:23:32 AM
Wow, Mike, you made it look easy.  Very nice!   

Those spacer rings are useful for the Long Beach 60 also.  I'd bet you could sell a bunch of them if only they could be cut in a lot ;) 


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 14, 2018, 05:21:39 AM
hope you don't mind Lee.

Not at all, you are making this "mud hen" look better too.  I really like the lug/hook retainer.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 14, 2018, 05:28:31 AM
Agreed that the reel looks better. I was thinking to use the stainless spool also -- makes it more visually interesting and stronger looking (for what it's worth  ::))


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 14, 2018, 05:40:17 AM
 I'd bet you could sell a bunch of them if only they could be cut in a lot ;)  

If I could figure out the hole spacing they could be easily water cut but then they would loose their "hand made" quality.  This is similar (but not as complex) to how I made the first 50 or so AR dogs and still do for special dogs that I do not want to have a bunch cut. I'm working on a 15-349LH left hand AR dog now that will drop in without modifying the sideplate or bridge.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on March 14, 2018, 06:26:36 AM
The frame is looking great Mike. 8)


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Ron Jones on March 14, 2018, 01:29:44 PM
I have been wanting something like that for years! I have a long list of post retirement projects, and this is one of them. I'm gonna get it drawn up in solid works because I could use a bunch of these.
Ron


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mhc on March 18, 2018, 02:08:47 AM
Lee it would be good if we could get an accurate drawing with the hole spacing, maybe Ron will come up with something on solid works, is that program compatible with your cutter's cnc system? I tried measuring the side plate holes with earlier frame spacer rings, with mixed results - that's why I now mark the holes directly through a side plate or make a template if I think I might make a couple (but that's looking unlikely).
You will need to make a separate version for the LB 60 though, the width and stand location/holes are the same but the LB frame posts sit a bit higher on the reel than the seaboy posts.

I opened a couple of these post 1990 reels, one marked 3.5:1 and two marked 3.1:1, the first thing I noticed is the smaller 98-155 gear sleeve on both models. My first thought was to replace it with a 98-60 but looking a bit closer the bridge seems to be the same as 3-66 bridge except for the sleeve post location. The post is further away from the center / pinion to make room for the larger dia main gear and it looks like the 98-60 sleeve would interfere with the spool rim - no doubt there was a good reason penn used the smaller sleeve.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_18_03_18_2_26_53_24024236.jpeg)

With the gears, both the 3.1:1 have stainless pinions and the 3.5:1 has brass. the steel and brass pinions are the same size with the same tooth number;

Seaboy 190 pinions, Brass & stainless (13-185) - OD 11.1 mm, ID 5.6 mm, Height 13.0 mm, Teeth 15

Mo, the 13-85 pinion has the same ID and height but larger OD: OD 12.5 mm, ID 5.6 mm, Height 13.0 mm, Teeth 17

(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_18_03_18_1_25_10_240191242.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_18_03_18_1_25_02_240182181.jpeg)

The 13-185 main gear is the same in both the 3.1 & 3.5 : 1 models as well;

Seaboy 190 main, brass (5-185) - OD 31.5 mm, Height 6.7 mm, Teeth 47

And very similar to the 5-500 jigmaster main, OD 31.5 mm, Height 6.7 mm Teeth 48
 
You could probably swap the 5-185 for a 5-500 and gain around 0.07:1 in speed, from 3.13:1 to 3.20:1.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_18_03_18_1_26_25_240212500.jpeg)

Stacked;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_18_03_18_1_26_00_240202014.jpeg)

On edge;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_18_03_18_1_26_27_24022191.jpeg)

I also had a first pass at double dogging my 190, needs a bit of fine tuning but seems to be working;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_18_03_18_1_26_54_24023570.jpeg)

Mike



Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on March 18, 2018, 07:24:24 AM
I opened a couple of these post 1990 reels, one marked 3.5:1 and two marked 3.1:1, the first thing I noticed is the smaller 98-155 gear sleeve on both models. My first thought was to replace it with a 98-60 but looking a bit closer the bridge seems to be the same as 3-66 bridge except for the sleeve post location. The post is further away from the center / pinion to make room for the larger dia main gear and it looks like the 98-60 sleeve would interfere with the spool rim - no doubt there was a good reason penn used the smaller sleeve.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_18_03_18_2_26_53_24024236.jpeg)

With the gears, both the 3.1:1 have stainless pinions and the 3.5:1 has brass. the steel and brass pinions are the same size with the same tooth number;

Seaboy 190 pinions, Brass & stainless (13-185) - OD 11.1 mm, ID 5.6 mm, Height 13.0 mm, Teeth 15

Mo, the 13-85 pinion has the same ID and height but larger OD: OD 12.5 mm, ID 5.6 mm, Height 13.0 mm, Teeth 17

(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_18_03_18_1_25_10_240191242.jpeg)


   Thanks for researching the pinions Mike...I had a suspicion the #13-185 would be thinner walled than the ol' #13-85. That, and the pic of a brass pinion was why I cautioned that the pinion may be the weak link. Of coarse the steel pinion negates that worry.
   I slapped a #98-60 gear sleeve on a Mag 10 to accommodate Bryan's under gear set up, but looking at the pic I believe it is a different beast altogether. Appears the spool on the Mag 10 passes over the bridge unaffected by the gear sleeve. The 190 looks like the bridge is "tucked" into the spool...with the spool edge passing very close to where your gear sleeve sits. Here's a few pics of the Mag 10 showing the spool/bridge differences. 8)


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 18, 2018, 08:45:12 PM
Lee it would be good if we could get an accurate drawing with the hole spacing, maybe Ron will come up with something on solid works, is that program compatible with your cutter's cnc system?

It can do .dxf format.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 19, 2018, 11:42:30 AM
Wow, things are progressing quickly, Mike.  I'm envious not to have more shop time; have to be content as an armchair reel-builder.   ::)


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Ron Jones on March 19, 2018, 03:07:10 PM
Solid works will output .dxf, but I'm in the middle of retiring and starting a whole new everything. I want to do this, but we're looking at maybe a Winter 18 project.
Ron


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mhc on March 20, 2018, 02:39:06 AM
There are a few digital tracing systems that create a .dxf file from tracing an object with an electronic 'pen' or stylus gadget - they seem a bit expensive for making 2D reel parts (around $1200 for the smallest 12'' x 12" pad) unless you had a commercial use for one.

I don't know anything about them or if they would be suitable - this is a link to one I found surfing the net - http://www.logicgroup.com/LogicTraceCncDxf.html (http://www.logicgroup.com/LogicTraceCncDxf.html)

Lee, I'm guessing if your cutter had something similar (that he was willing to share) you would have made use of it by now.

Mike


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 20, 2018, 04:50:02 AM
Unfortunately Mat does not have that technology. 

I figured out a way to get the hole spacing by drawing a circle the diameter of the screw holes, splitting it vertically, measuring the stand screw spacing and dividing it in half then once I had the stand screws I measured between a stand screw hole and the first post screw hole and drawing circles centered on the stand screw hole and repeated it for the rest of the screw holes.  I printed the drawing off and they match the holes.  The top post screw holes are below the centerline of the side plate, on a Jigmaster they are in line with the center.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 20, 2018, 07:22:40 AM
Now I will have to take the Pro Challenger SS gear I have in a Jigmaster 501 and check if it works on my 190/185 project.  If it does fit it should exceed my drag goal.  

Ted (Max) gave me a old and stronger LB 60 stand for the 185 and I put a SS 30-66 stand on the 190 so the stands are stronger than stock.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_18_03_18_1_26_25_240212500.jpeg)
  
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_18_03_18_1_26_00_240202014.jpeg)
 
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_18_03_18_1_26_27_24022191.jpeg)



Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mhc on March 21, 2018, 03:58:07 AM
The LB 60 top post screw hole are above the side plate centerline as well. There's also a third design option to fit the 2/0 which is the same width and diameter with a different screw pattern. The 2/0 stands are getting hard to find and this would help anyone wanting to narrow a black 3/0 but doesn't have a 2/0 stand. Maybe you could have short spacers just for the stand cut from the material inside the half round spacers?

Now I will have to take the Pro Challenger SS gear I have in a Jigmaster 501 and check if it works on my 190/185 project.  If it does fit it should exceed my drag goal.  

It will be interesting to see how the Pro Challenger gen2 4:1 main meshes with the 13-185 pinion. 

Mike


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 21, 2018, 05:07:53 AM
The gear I had was slightly too big to get into the side plate and the teeth did not match with the 13-185, it must be a "high speed" gear set.  When I get back to town I will dig out a steel 5-500 and try it but one good thing was I found one of Bryan's 112H/500 drag kits in the Pro Challenger main gear and I put it in the 190.  



Maybe you could have short spacers just for the stand cut from the material inside the half round spacers?

The short metal plate between the stand and the side plate of 185 and 190 reels (item 18 on the schematic) could be replaced with a thicker one and a 30-49 stand could be used in a 185, it would be easy to draw up and have cut.  The early Long Beach 30-60 stand I was given was a drop in and the 190 was easy, a 30-66 fits it and SS ones are still available.


http://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/185seaboy.pdf (http://mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/185seaboy.pdf)

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackles old online store over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"





Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 23, 2018, 03:39:52 AM
I tried stock Penn 5-500 and another Pro Challenger 500 gear in my 190 and they were noisy and rough, I will put the 5-185 back in.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 23, 2018, 08:50:49 AM
I tried stock Penn 5-500 and another Pro Challenger 500 gear in my 190 and they were noisy and rough, I will put the 5-185 back in.

Darn, that looked promising, but seemed to good to be true also  :-[


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 23, 2018, 09:30:39 AM
I plan on ordering a 13-180 pinion gear for this reel and see if it's the pinion causing the noise, the reel is a bit noisy with the stock 5-185 main gear.  I would really like to use the Pro Challenger gear in this reel.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Ron Jones on March 23, 2018, 12:17:11 PM
Will the 500 pinion fit the 185 spool? Maybe we can do a whole gear swap.
Ron


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mhc on March 23, 2018, 11:36:29 PM
I plan on ordering a 13-180 pinion gear for this reel and see if it's the pinion causing the noise, the reel is a bit noisy with the stock 5-185 main gear.  I would really like to use the Pro Challenger gear in this reel.

I had a look at the Pro Challenger 2nd Gen 4.0:1 gear I've got in a jigmaster - it is 0.5 mm larger dia but the cut of the teeth looks to be a match;

PC gear on top;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_24_03_18_12_02_24_240312223.jpeg)

Showing the slightly larger dia (0.5 mm)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_24_03_18_12_02_13_240302388.jpeg)

The PC main fit into a 190 with a steel pinion. (The PC gears look a brownish color from the heat treating he does)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_24_03_18_12_10_44_240322353.jpeg)

It sounded a bit noisy, but no more than any new stainless set. I gave it a mild stress test of vertically winching a 4 lb bottle of water a few times and it felt smooth (ish) again it had a slight 'geary' feeling that any new stainless gears can have. I'll put this gear back into the JM and will dig up a steel 5-500 and check that in the seaboy.

The 13-185 pinions Scott's have listed show a brass gear in the photo - you might want to check that before ordering if you want a steel pinion.

Will the 500 pinion fit the 185 spool? Maybe we can do a whole gear swap.
Ron

The 13-500 pinion has smaller inside and outside diameters Ron and won't fit the spool or engage with the main.

Mike


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mhc on March 24, 2018, 06:00:34 PM
I think you could be right about trying a different pinion Lee. I found a steel penn 5-500 this morning and it seems fairly smooth in my 190, like the PC gear was. Maybe not as quiet and smooth as the original gear but I think it will settle in with a bit of use.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_24_03_18_6_47_45_240332474.jpeg)

I had a quick look on ebay but didn't see any steel 5-185 pinions.

Mike



Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 25, 2018, 09:18:30 AM
Not to distract f what Mike and Lee are accomplishing here...  I was wondering if there are any special techniques for breaking in a set of gears to make them fit together more smoothly.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on March 25, 2018, 09:40:42 AM
Not to distract f what Mike and Lee are accomplishing here...  I was wondering if there are any special techniques for breaking in a set of gears to make them fit together more smoothly.

   That's a touchy subject Joe, some guys say running valve lapping compound or similar mild abrasives thought the gears will smooth 'em right out, while others say such activity is a fast way to destroy your gears.  :-\


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Maxed Out on March 25, 2018, 11:10:17 AM

 Has anyone built a super wide seaboy yet ??

 Jigmaster 500 seat and posts, and a 3/0 spool will double the line capacity. The seaboy seems to be very capable, and would be more versatile with more capacity

  Sent from my android, Ted


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mhc on March 25, 2018, 02:31:36 PM
Not yet Ted


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: oc1 on March 25, 2018, 11:13:16 PM
Hey Ted.

Mo and Joe, if the gears are grinding and not smooth don't you think they are literally grinding off the rough spots with every turn?  After modifying a reel they often seem to have break-in period and get a little better with use.
-steve


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 26, 2018, 05:09:07 AM

  I was wondering if there are any special techniques for breaking in a set of gears to make them fit together more smoothly.
   That's a touchy subject Joe, some guys say running valve lapping compound or similar mild abrasives thought the gears will smooth 'em right out, while others say such activity is a fast way to destroy your gears.  :-\

Mo and Joe, if the gears are grinding and not smooth don't you think they are literally grinding off the rough spots with every turn?  After modifying a reel they often seem to have break-in period and get a little better with use.
-steve
I found a couple of threads:
  • Covers the "controversy": http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=5582.0
  • http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9692.0
  • This one has the most info on techniques:  http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9692.0

Back to Lee and Mike...


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 26, 2018, 05:28:38 AM
I would recommend against "pre wearing" gears, especially when the gears are different materials.  Lapping compound "wears" out the leading edge of the drive gear and the following edge of the driven gear and can destroy the gear fit.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on March 26, 2018, 08:50:08 AM
After modifying a reel they often seem to have break-in period and get a little better with use.
-steve

   I read around here somewhere the cause of that too...something about the main and pinion positioning being changed...they recommended marking the gears and realigning those marks. Personally, I've never reassembled anything with stock gears and had it get worse. I've changed gears and been disappointed. My first Jigmaster build got a shiny new ss gear, that thing was a noisy mess. Took several nights of handle turning while watching the tube to smooth it out...I still can't believe folks are so eager to use stuff like that in their reels. But you hear it all the time..."Oh, it's a little rough, but it's strong"... :-\


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: oc1 on March 26, 2018, 01:09:14 PM
Thank you very much for the links Joe. I learned two things
1) Compression blue = Prussian blue has got to be better than a sharpie pen.
2) "Touchy subject" is putting it mildly and we should hope that nobody wades into this again  :)
-steve


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: basto on March 26, 2018, 03:14:26 PM

 Has anyone built a super wide seaboy yet ??

 Jigmaster 500 seat and posts, and a 3/0 spool will double the line capacity. The seaboy seems to be very capable, and would be more versatile with more capacity

  Sent from my android, Ted


Would a 112h be close?


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 26, 2018, 03:42:40 PM
I think the spool shafts are different but I will check. 

Ted is donating a 3/0 spool and SS 30-200 reel seat (the Jigmaster 500 uses this seat) and I will see how this works.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 26, 2018, 04:03:22 PM
Steve, you could probably run a handful of peppercorns through the gears without doing damage ;)


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Alto Mare on March 26, 2018, 06:51:52 PM
After modifying a reel they often seem to have break-in period and get a little better with use.
-steve

   I read around here somewhere the cause of that too...something about the main and pinion positioning being changed...they recommended marking the gears and realigning those marks. Personally, I've never reassembled anything with stock gears and had it get worse. I've changed gears and been disappointed. My first Jigmaster build got a shiny new ss gear, that thing was a noisy mess. Took several nights of handle turning while watching the tube to smooth it out...I still can't believe folks are so eager to use stuff like that in their reels. But you hear it all the time..."Oh, it's a little rough, but it's strong"... :-\
When the Tank came back from a fishing expedition in Alaska, it felt much smoother and quieter than when it left. A couple of good size fish would iron out the new gears.
If you’re after quiet, I hear the library is pretty quiet, that would be a better place to hang😁


Sal


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mhc on March 27, 2018, 12:25:09 AM

 Has anyone built a super wide seaboy yet ??

 Jigmaster 500 seat and posts, and a 3/0 spool will double the line capacity. The seaboy seems to be very capable, and would be more versatile with more capacity

  Sent from my android, Ted

Would a 112h be close?

The 112H spool is close Greg, it's the correct diameter and width for a 'Ted's super-wide Seaboy' but like Lee said the spool shaft is a different diameter - the 112H uses a 13-500 pinion with smaller OD and ID than the 13-185. Even if you changed the pinion and the spool the pinion wouldn't engage fully with the main, unless the gear sleeve was moved closer to the pinion.

Mike

PS; I just read your question again Greg, if you are asking if a complete 112H reel would be close to a TSWS  :) the answer is yes sort of, same width and spool capacity spool diameter, with 4.0:1 gear ratio compared to 3.1:1 for the seaboy.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 27, 2018, 03:48:55 AM
The handle side spool shaft on a 112H is also longer.

A 190W would have the same line capacity as a 112H but a lower 3.1:1 (or 3.?:1) gear ratio, the 3/0 has a 2.25:1 gear ratio and a much smaller drag stack, the same as a Long Beach 60.   A 190W would have a 112H/500 drag stack, 112H-3/0 line capacity and a low gear ratio then the 112H, but higher than the 3/0.  The LB 65 has slightly less line capacity but a slower 2.5:1 gear ratio and the same small drag stack as the 3/0.

If the frame and gears hold up these will work for the job I plan on using them for (30-100 pound Pacific halibut in relatively shallow water) but a 190W will never replace the 349/349H for deep water Pacific halibut.... a 114HNN might.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 27, 2018, 04:32:35 AM
This is a spool marked "112H-1" that I pulled off a post-'90 Seaboy 190.  I guess it is the same as a 112H spool with a different shaft (for ball bearings).  if you want to go wide, maybe you need one of the wider Long Beach spools.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mhc on March 27, 2018, 05:18:17 AM
This is a spool marked "112H-1" that I pulled off a post-'90 Seaboy 190.  I guess it is the same as a 112H spool with a different shaft (for ball bearings).  if you want to go wide, maybe you need one of the wider Long Beach spools.


Good pick up Joe - I stand corrected, the 112H is the same width as the 190 & 99, LB 66 etc and uses the 30-66 stand. The black 112 that Ted is talking about is JM 500 or LB 67 width and will suit a wider 190.

Lee, my trial fit with the PC gears and the steel 500 main were run with dry gears, I greased the 5-500 when I put the reel together and it is noticeably quieter - not sure if I would get away with using it in a library though.  ;D ;D 

 


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 27, 2018, 05:43:41 AM
I did mine dry too, these reels will be apart a few more times before I get to use them and I'll lube them later.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Ron Jones on March 27, 2018, 12:03:54 PM
A 3/0 width 190 would be a slow Tuna Special. I might have to try that.
Ron


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on March 27, 2018, 01:16:26 PM
A 3/0 width 190 would be a slow Tuna Special. I might have to try that.
Ron

Or a "Tuna Boy"? :D


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on March 27, 2018, 05:59:40 PM
Has anyone built a super wide seaboy yet ??

   I don't know about the Seaboy but some guy widened a Delmar once! I've been searching for this reel...knew I had seen it here somewhere. Cool reel Ted! 8)

       http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=17208.msg180569#msg180569


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Keta on March 28, 2018, 09:09:49 AM
It's a bad time for me to look for parts, I'm moving out of my shop after close to 20 years, but I managed to find a Newell 500 stand for a Seaboy wide in one of my parts boxes.  It was on a nice maroon 500 that I will use for a 501 conversion, I found a used 29L-501 when searching for the reel stand.  I put the 190W together without a spool and for a "wide" reel it fits my hand well. 

Are there any Newell crossbars that will fit the 190/185 hole pattern?


Tuna Boy....hummmmm, well I'm going to try to use it for halibut and I am not going there.



Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mhc on March 29, 2018, 07:20:53 AM
Are there any Newell crossbars that will fit the 190/185 hole pattern?

Not that I know of, the only newell bars I have seen have the hole spacing that match jigmasters, squidders, 112H or 113H - none of those match the hole spacing pattern of the seaboys.

Mike 


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on May 10, 2019, 11:10:04 AM
   Even the blind hog gets an acorn now and then. I staggered onto a Seaboy 190 for 15 bucks...shipped! It was advertised as "parts or repair" but everything was in place. It was wearing dirt and corrosion, but most of it looked like it would wash off. The drags looked new...stainless metals...the only setback was that brass pinion. If I'd gotten the ss pinion I'd prolly hotrod this thing, but looking at that tiny brass pinion, I believe I'll leave her stock. The only modifications I did were shimming the gear sleeve 12 thousandths and grinding the eccentric spring flush with the eccentric. That spring has been digging into the jack for years, as can be seen in the third pic. The yellow arrow points to the spring tip, and the red arrow indicates the damage. These mods won't make my reel any stronger or faster, but they sure make it feel better in hand. 8)


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on May 10, 2019, 06:36:11 PM
Nice one, Mo! How do you intent to fish it?

I bought a lot of about 185's and 190's for cheap. Haven't rehabbed a single one yet.  The 185 is basically a faster Longbeach 60, and the 190 is similar to the 112.  Looks like it could be a wreck-fishing workhorse.  Some stainless and some sub-standard corroded metals on mine.  These reels come from a transition period to offshore manufacturing. I'm not sure what pinions I have.  How would you hot-rod it?


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on May 11, 2019, 04:25:56 AM
How would you hot-rod it?

   I'd go with a ss gear sleeve, a 5-stack drag, double AR dogs, and the ss #30-66 stand. That 66 stand in stainless has to be rock solid, just what the doctor ordered to stop flex, and flex would shred these brass gears fast. I started to change my reel to an older chromed brass #30-66 stand, then realized the ss #30-65 it was already sporting is likely stronger than that old brass stand. 8)


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on May 14, 2019, 10:46:58 AM
Mo, I checked my box of seaboy bones and found a sideplate with the ss pinion.   Don't know about the condition; the corrosion on this lot is ugly but I think it is salvageable.  Coming your way... ;)

P.S. I wonder how many of the innards of these reels could be swapped from earlier reels.  That ss 30-66 is a gem, and fits on half a dozen other reels.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: RowdyW on May 14, 2019, 11:15:57 AM
  Does anyone know if the 190's spool will drop into a LB65? The 190 takes LB65 posts and stand, but Scott's lists the 190 spool as only fitting the 190.
Mo the 190 spool drops right into a LB 65. It's the only way to get an aluminum spool for a LB 65. 60 & 65 plates are the same except for the model markings.The spools are usually marked 112 on the ends but they don't fit a 112 or 112h. I had a line on them a couple of years ago (used) but there weren't many takers here on the forum.      Rudy


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on May 14, 2019, 11:29:30 AM
Mo, I checked my box of seaboy bones and found a sideplate with the ss pinion.   Don't know about the condition; the corrosion on this lot is ugly but I think it is salvageable.  Coming your way... ;)

   Much thanks Joe! I've only seen one listed for sale and the pic was so poor I can't tell if it's steel or bronze.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Donnyboat on May 14, 2019, 05:20:39 PM
Hi Mo, Mike, good point about the eccentric spring protruding right through, I see it with some of the senators as well, I have been grinding them down as well, cheers Don.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on May 28, 2019, 10:12:15 AM
   I have an interesting tidbit of news here concerning the question of gear ratio in these reels. In previous research, it was determined that all the post '90 Seaboys had 3.1:1 ratios regardless of using either brass or steel pinions. Mike even posted pics of the pinions both having 15 teeth. To my surprise...when I pulled my brass pinion to install the steel pinion Joe sent me...I noticed these pinions looked very different. I counted the teeth on my brass pinion and it had one more tooth, 16 total! Knowing that difference would also change the main gear, I pulled it for a tooth count, it had 56 total! A little simple division tells us this is a true 3.5:1 gear ratio. So it looks like there really were 3 to 1 and 3.5 to 1 Seaboys. I'd say parts spillover explains why Mike's reel marked 3.5:1 actually had 3.1:1 gears. It's probably a roll of the dice as to what any one reel actually has. 8)


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on May 28, 2019, 03:12:54 PM
Great discovery, Mo! I’m going to keep my eyes peeled for those stainless pinions.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mhc on May 28, 2019, 04:15:29 PM
Good pick-up Mo, the plot thickens! My 3.5:1 reels were in a lot of 4 or 5 parts reels on ebay, same seller had a few lots of seaboy reels at the same time (I think Joe might have bought one of the lots) - Maybe he had them repaired at some stage and ended up with 3.1:1 gear sets for whatever reason.  ???
Mike


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on May 29, 2019, 08:56:34 AM
My 3.5:1 reels were in a lot of 4 or 5 parts reels on ebay, same seller had a few lots of seaboy reels at the same time (I think Joe might have bought one of the lots)

Think you're right, Mike.  I recall they came from South Jersey, maybe Cape May.  I got a mess of about four of them for about $18 shipped.  Messiest lot of reels I've ever seen  :P

So the main and the pinion are different.  The color of the main is kind of strange.  Chinese alloy?   Reddish color -- cadmium?  Wear gloves, Mo, who knows...



Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Ron Jones on May 29, 2019, 11:17:49 AM
So that means on a 3/0 diameter 66 framed reel we have 2.5,3.1,3.5,4.0,4.8 and 5.0 gear ratios available. I really think that covers about everything there is to cover. Really wish someone made an improved strength 60 stand with clamp.
Ron Jones


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on May 29, 2019, 03:02:17 PM
So the main and the pinion are different.  The color of the main is kind of strange.  Chinese alloy?   Reddish color -- cadmium?  Wear gloves, Mo, who knows...

   Yes, the main and pinion are both different. The first pic is the side plate you sent Joe. The second photo is the cleaned parts! The reddish shade on the brass parts came from the extended vinegar soak. I normally only soak parts a half hour or so, like that gear sleeve, but most of these parts needed serious help. The drags were practically welded to the gear...that gear soaked 8 hours. Had to scrap the bridge, the post was rusted off! I really thought I'd have to scrap the gear too. People who haven't tried vinegar to clean reel parts have no clue how well it really works.
   Thanks again for the parts Joe. I feel like I owe you one, all I asked for was a pinion. But actually, the pinion would be worthless without the main! Let me know if you can't find a Penn part, if I have it...it's yours.8)


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: thorhammer on May 31, 2019, 06:07:40 AM
Mike, what gears are you looking for? I may have something you can hold in the boxes.



John


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: foakes on May 31, 2019, 09:27:48 AM
If anyone has a need for Seaboy plates —

I have around 30 lefts and rights.

Best,

Fred


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on May 31, 2019, 02:12:56 PM
Mike, what gears are you looking for? I may have something you can hold in the boxes. 

   I'm not looking for any gears John. Joe sent me the 3.1:1 set...and I had the 3.5:1 set...please don't tell me there's more...:D


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on June 03, 2019, 08:59:42 PM
You're welcome, Mo!  I just like to watch you work. ;)


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on August 15, 2019, 08:57:35 AM
If anyone has a need for Seaboy plates — I have around 30 lefts and rights.

To add to the excess inventory...  I have a box of about 5 disassembled Seaboys (post 1990) in both sizes that I've decided to give away.  Also with these are some Long Beach 60 parts (a lot of cross-compatibility).  PM me please if interested. 


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: Decker on August 15, 2019, 09:35:39 AM
I have a box of about 5 disassembled Seaboys (post 1990) in both sizes that I've decided to give away.  Also with these are some Long Beach 60 parts (a lot of cross-compatibility).  PM me please if interested. 

Chad has offered to take these off my hands.  If anyone else needs a part or two, let me know.  I think there's enough for everyone.


Title: Re: Post 90 Seaboy 185 and 190
Post by: mo65 on August 15, 2019, 01:24:18 PM
   I think I have plenty of parts to keep me going Joe...hope Chad gets himself a fishable reel out of those parts. The 185/190 Seaboy should make a killer headboat reel. Faster than the LBs and Delmars, and more drag power too. I'm picturing me unhooking another slab for the cooler while the other folks are only half way up. I believe the extra speed will work out great. 8)