Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: mhc on September 17, 2017, 03:47:08 AM



Title: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mhc on September 17, 2017, 03:47:08 AM
I have started a project to remove the level wind of a Mag 10 and cut down the side plates to make it more compact by removing the area taken up by the level wind and lifting the stand closer to the spool. I didn't have a Mag 10 to work with until Sal (Alto Mare) generously donated a reel that Harry had given him - thanks again Sal and Harry.

The Mag 10 stand and posts are ~46 mm wide and the rings are ~ 0.75 mm x 2 - total distance between side plates ~ 47.5 mm. I needed to make new shape 'rings' anyway and I used 3 mm plate with a 41.5 mm 3-49 stand to equal ~47.5 mm between the plates. This also allowed me to use 501 spacer bars for the frame.

First up was to mark the 3 mm plate with new diameter and the inner diameter of the rings, I then drilled a 10.5 mm hole in the centre and used and old gear sleeve to hold the plates on or the 'rings' together when transferring frame hole locations etc;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/7995_17_09_17_1_55_24.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/7995_17_09_17_2_03_28.jpeg)

Then drilled and tapped three holes in the middle section to hold the 'rings' or frame sides together;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/7995_17_09_17_2_05_33.jpeg)

By moving the stand up to the spool, the reel was tilted forward and moved the eccentric lever forward as well. I rotated the stand location anti-clockwise to bring the lever back to somewhere near to where it was ( I hope) Marked and drilled holes for the stand and spacer bars and tested the fit;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/7995_17_09_17_2_19_48.jpeg)

Screwed the frame sides together and roughly shaped them;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/7995_17_09_17_4_00_08.jpeg)

Another test fit and starting to take shape;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/7995_17_09_17_2_23_32.jpeg)

Then used the shaped frame sides to start modifying the side plates;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/7995_17_09_17_2_21_42.jpeg)

And showing how much was removed from the tail plate;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/7995_17_09_17_2_22_47.jpeg)

It's not clear in the above photo, but the new frame plate extended past the side plate (top left) To cover this I added a piece of bakelite where the spacer screw is and cut the frame down to match the side plate in between the screw locations. I also cut a few pieces of bakelite to fill the holes left by the level wind mechanism, and used PC-7 epoxy to attach them and fill smaller voids.

The bakelite pieces;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/7995_17_09_17_2_33_44.jpeg)

and with the epoxy;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/7995_17_09_17_2_35_03.jpeg)  

(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/7995_17_09_17_2_39_05.jpeg)

While the epoxy is curing I started drilling and filing the hole for the spool;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/7995_17_09_17_2_29_22.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/7995_17_09_17_2_31_59.jpeg)

I stopped close to where it should be until the side plates are fully cured and cleaned up a bit and I can start test fitting as I go;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/7995_17_09_17_2_36_43.jpeg)

It will be a week or so before I can get back to this - so I thought I should post what I have done so far while I remember.

Mike


 


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Alto Mare on September 17, 2017, 05:27:04 AM
Mike, as usual it's shaping up to be a great thread, can't wait to see more.
How do you manage to cut that plate so perfect?

Keep it coming...

Sal


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Bryan Young on September 17, 2017, 06:31:40 AM
Stickies. This is going to be another interesting creation.


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Cor on September 17, 2017, 08:16:56 AM
Wow, quite a project, one I have never thought of tackling!
Waiting to see how this ends.


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Bill B (Tarfu) on September 17, 2017, 08:38:39 AM
Well he did it again  ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/fZ4csHb.png)

It amazes me how when doing a custom piece it goes from a clean and neat piece of material, to a messy "ain't never gonna work" piece to "Wow what an incredible piece"  I will be following this fr sure....Bill


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: oc1 on September 17, 2017, 12:46:05 PM
Really nice work Mike.  Can't wait to see more.
-steve


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Bryan Young on September 17, 2017, 12:47:50 PM
Hey Mike, may I delete your WTB Mag 10 request?


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Ron Jones on September 17, 2017, 03:03:04 PM
This will be really cool.
Another reel this needs to be done to is the 320GTi, a 5:1 open top squidder more available that a Newell or Pro Gear would be great.
Ron


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mhc on September 17, 2017, 11:43:29 PM
Thanks for the kind words guys, I hope it turns out as well as expected.

Mike, as usual it's shaping up to be a great thread, can't wait to see more.
How do you manage to cut that plate so perfect?

Keep it coming...

Sal

Thanks again Sal, the side plates were ground down with a bench grinder and belt sander, and used continuous movement to avoid flat spots - I do it in the open and wear a dust mask.

Hey Mike, may I delete your WTB Mag 10 request?

Sure Bryan, and thanks for the sticky!



Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Alto Mare on September 18, 2017, 03:04:04 AM
Thanks Mike, I was refferring to the fifth pic down from the top, that one appears that it hasn't been hit with the grinder and yet the cut is perfect.
I could be wrong, you probably did grind it already...either way, nice job so far!

Sal


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mhc on September 18, 2017, 04:11:46 AM
Got it! - I thought you meant the bakelite plates - the metal ones in the fifth photo have been ground, with the plate held flat on the guide, leaving a burr on the bottom side that you can see.
Mike


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mo65 on September 18, 2017, 07:48:31 AM
   Wow...this is a heavy duty project...great work! 8)


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Decker on September 18, 2017, 08:03:26 AM
Can't wait to see the finished product!   I have a bunch of 10's to fish with my wife and kids.  They are great for shallow bottom-fishing with the benefit of the 4:1 retrieve.  Hot-rodded they have potential for being palm-sized powerhouses.


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Decker on September 21, 2017, 07:03:31 AM
This is a little hard for me to follow...  Are the aluminum plates just a jig for working on the plastic side-plates, or will the aluminum replace the plastic?

If this project is the building of a prototype that could be mass-produced as an upgrade, I'm very excited!


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Bill B (Tarfu) on September 23, 2017, 07:26:09 AM
I dont mean to speak for him, but looks like he is re-profiling the side plates to eliminate the level wind and reduce the overall diameter.  By adding the 3mm plates and removing the original inside chrome plates he will be changing to a stronger, narrowed stand and using the much stronger 501 narrow solid spacer bars in lieu of the original round posts.  In the end he will end up with a stronger reel in a more compact size, as compared to the original Mag 10.   Bill


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mhc on September 24, 2017, 12:20:08 AM
Sorry for the late reply Joe - I've been a bit busy the last few days and thanks Bill, you've summed it up pretty well. The only thing I'll add is the frame sides are 316 stainless steel.
I haven't made any progress with this, apart from 1/2 an hour cleaning up the bakelite side plates a bit. Here's a sneak preview that demonstrates what Bill has said;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/7995_24_09_17_1_16_46.jpeg)

Mike


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Alto Mare on September 24, 2017, 02:19:12 AM
It's shaping up Mike, starting to look sweet.

Sal


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Donnyboat on September 24, 2017, 05:54:35 PM
good work as always Mike, entertaining keep it coming, thanks mate, cheers Don.


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Rothmar2 on September 25, 2017, 02:26:44 AM
Ah, now I see what you are up to. I hadn't seen this thread until today, and I wasn't able to comprehend what your plan was from some of the preview pics you had sent me privately. Quite a mod this one. You'd be getting filer's forearms by now!


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mhc on October 02, 2017, 11:33:03 PM
I've made a bit more progress with this - the frame is pretty much finished but the side plates still need work.
I had marked the opening for the spool on the frame sides and then adjusted it slightly at some stage. The result was two circles of marks that were close and sure to be confusing so I screwed the sides together with the original rings on each side as a guide;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_02_10_17_1_12_33.jpeg)

It's probably worth mentioning the Mag 10 uses 4-40 (I think) side plate screws and I'm using 5-40 screws so I needed to ream the holes in the rings and side plates to 3.5 mm to accommodate the 5-40 screws.
Back to the frame, I filed the sides down to the edge of the hole in the rings;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_02_10_17_1_13_43.jpeg)

I then started test fitting with the spool as I went;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_02_10_17_1_16_26.jpeg)

Once the spool fit, I assembled the frame and side plates with the bearings to check free spool. The spool wasn't free at all to start off with so I kept filing where I thought it was needed checking regularly so I didn't remove more material than needed. When it got to the stage the spool turning but still rubbing I marked the inside of the opening with a marking pen and filed the high spots where the rub marks were, and repeated, and repeated and lost count.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_03_10_17_12_01_43.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_02_10_17_1_19_02.jpeg)

Once the spool turned freely I finished sanding and sort of polished the frame;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_02_10_17_1_21_33.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_02_10_17_1_22_19.jpeg)

The assembled frame with the spool showing part of the tapered flange on the spool sitting inside the frame Ė looking from the inside of the reel this makes the gap between the spool and frame appear much wider than it is at the edge of the spool. Having said that - the gap, more so on the tail plate side, did end up a bit wider than I would have liked.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_02_10_17_1_23_06.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_02_10_17_1_23_55.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_02_10_17_1_24_54.jpeg)

The side plates are taking shape but will need another application of epoxy to fill the gaps or voids left after the first round; 

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_02_10_17_1_25_39.jpeg)

I think Iím going to like this little reel - I donít have a stock Mag 10 to compare this with but here is a photo beside a 146 squidder for a size comparison;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_02_10_17_1_29_29.jpeg)

And another with the 146 and an ABU 6500 C4;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_02_10_17_1_30_52.jpeg)

More to come when I finish the side plates.
Mike


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: thorhammer on October 03, 2017, 04:47:19 AM
Great work on one of my favorite reels. I expect you will about throw the line off when done. Are you going to paint or polish out the bakelite mod areas? If so what will you use?


John


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mhc on October 03, 2017, 05:22:21 AM
Thanks John, I'm still tossing a few ideas around with the finish - I think I'll wait until it's fully functional before I decide how much more time to spend on it.

Mike


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: STRIPER LOU on October 03, 2017, 05:41:36 AM
Don't know how I missed this? Very nice work Mike!!!

.............Lou


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mo65 on October 03, 2017, 08:15:27 AM
   Wow Mike...this thing is coming along great! I'd love to have one of these to bass fish. 8)


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: redsetta on October 03, 2017, 11:34:02 AM
Great work Mike - really enjoying its evolution!
Thanks for sharing, Justin


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: oc1 on October 03, 2017, 11:44:41 AM
You do very nice work Mike.
-steve


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Alto Mare on October 03, 2017, 12:41:45 PM
It's nice to watch this masterpiece evolve.
I see that Tony from Penn is taking a peak, maybe he'll get the idea and offer some of the same to us. :)

Keep up your great work Mike!

Sal


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Tightlines667 on October 03, 2017, 12:49:26 PM
Looking good.


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: jigmaster501 on October 03, 2017, 04:28:34 PM
A few years back, someone tried to do something like this with a penn 209. I think it was called a squidmaster 209....  This metal frame is what is needed for that reel...

Take a look, maybe your next project.....lol

Eugene


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mhc on October 04, 2017, 04:21:03 AM
Thanks guys, like most projects this has taken a bit more time than I thought but I'm pretty happy with the frame so far. It seems the more time I spend on the side plates the thought of starting again is making me less adventurous with the modifications.

A few years back, someone tried to do something like this with a penn 209. I think it was called a squidmaster 209....  This metal frame is what is needed for that reel...

Take a look, maybe your next project.....lol

Eugene

Funny you should mention that Eugene, the next project reel will probably be a cut down 210. I stumbled across the thread you're talking about while researching the 10 and 210 reels, The squidmaster 210 by Joel.B posted a few years back in 2013 - http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7057.0 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7057.0)

I am going to blame Mo65 for this project and the proposed 210 project  ;D ;D I wasn't thinking about these reels until I read his enthusiastic threads about his Mag 10 and 210 'hop ups' Mo mentioned the 4:1 gear ratios and how a lot of people remove the level winds which got me thinking the side plates are bigger than they need to be if the level wind is removed.
When I found Joel's thread I thought the 210 was going to be a simple case of modifying the 210 head plate to fit whatever width squidder you wanted, however the shaft on the gear side of the squidder spools and 210 spools are slightly different length. The squidder shaft is approx 2mm longer than the 210 spool - this will stop the pinion fully engaging, it will still partially engage and make the spool turn as Joel said but not be fully engaged.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_03_10_17_8_25_15.jpeg)

I hope I'm wrong, and maybe I can fiddle with the bearing or something to make the squidder spools work - I'll look into it more when I finish the 10. I'm very interested in hearing from anyone else that has tried this, I'm sure I wouldn't be the first after Joel's thread.

I have made a squidder side plate hole template just in case  :)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_03_10_17_8_31_06.jpeg)

Mike


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Decker on October 04, 2017, 05:27:36 AM
This is exciting stuff!   Great work!    Maybe one day someone will produce an upgrade kit for the Mag 10  ::)

Go out there and catch some ridiculously large fish on that little beast!!!


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mo65 on October 04, 2017, 06:28:51 AM
I am going to blame Mo65 for this project and the proposed 210 project  ;D ;D I wasn't thinking about these reels until I read his enthusiastic threads about his Mag 10 and 210 'hop ups'

   I'm so glad to see these reels getting attention. I stopped pining for a 4:1 Squidder once I realized, in the Mag 10, I already had one! 8)


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Gfish on October 04, 2017, 07:01:55 AM
Inspirational. You have the idea/plan, tool skills and patience to keep fitting stuff gradually. All 3 a these I need to work on. As Sal said "keep it coming".
Gfsih


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: jigmaster501 on October 04, 2017, 03:32:39 PM
We are on to something here..... This looks fun Mike....

Maybe Tom could carve sideplates out of delrin blocks or something and we can start something new...

Eugene


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mhc on October 21, 2017, 05:34:06 AM
I've double dogged the bridge and tidied up the side plates - still haven't decided on a finish for the plates, I might even leave them as they are for a working reel  :-\

I drilled the hole in the bridge where the magnet was mounted to 1/8" to install a post for the second dog - the location is a little close to the main gear but I didn't want to put another hole close to it. The first attempt was OK but the spring on the second dog tended to tilt the dog upwards on the side away from the gear;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_21_10_17_4_11_47.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_21_10_17_4_13_20.jpeg)

It sort of worked with the gear in place but didn't engage occasionally. I moved the spring post further from the post and shortened the dog a bit. Because I was more or less tied in to the post locations I used one of Tom's Cortez Conversions 98-155 9 tooth gear sleeves, not so much for extra strength but the tooth pattern worked better for alternating dogs.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_21_10_17_4_18_43.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_21_10_17_4_20_27.jpeg)

And with the gear in place;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_21_10_17_4_22_45.jpeg)

It works well now even without the gear in place. To make room for the spring I needed to remove a small area of the side plate near the bridge screw hole on the right in the photo;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_21_10_17_4_24_34.jpeg)

I didn't mention earlier the reel I started with had the head plate spool bearing replaced with a magnet drilled to suit the spool shaft. It's an interesting concept although I'm not sure how well the magnet or the spool shaft would stand up to wear. I ordered a replacement bearing but will also try the 'mag-bearing' when I'm finished to see how it goes with cast control.
Mag-bearing on the right;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_21_10_17_6_07_00.jpeg)

To clean up the side plates and rings I screwed them together and used a combination of dremel and belt sander;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_21_10_17_4_47_53.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_21_10_17_4_51_41.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_21_10_17_4_52_47.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_21_10_17_4_48_52.jpeg)

Sorry to drag this out for so long but I'm pretty close to having it ready to be spooled - just finish off an eccentric lever I've made and mount some magnets.

Mike


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Crow on October 21, 2017, 05:38:55 AM
  Looks real good !!


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Tiddlerbasher on October 21, 2017, 05:58:16 AM
That's looking great Mike :)


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Bryan Young on October 21, 2017, 06:25:11 AM
Looks amazing and love the progress report.


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mo65 on October 21, 2017, 06:53:27 AM
   Coming along great Mike. Have you decided on a drag stack yet? Just curious because Brian's 5 stack fit in mine...but it was very close to having the top eared washer poking over the gear's rim. I ended up using a 4 stack...a stock 3 stack with Bryan's under gear set. 8)


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Donnyboat on October 21, 2017, 10:38:34 AM
Fare chance Mike will make his drag set, don't worry about it dragging on for to long mike, its all very interesting, just keep it coming, your detail of finnish is really good, thanks for posting, keep well, cheers Don.


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Bill B (Tarfu) on October 21, 2017, 05:00:35 PM
Outstanding Mike....take all the time you need...we will be patiently waiting your next installment....Good Job brother....Bill


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Bryan Young on October 21, 2017, 07:41:47 PM
Is that the same drag kit as a squidder?  If so, Mike, send me an PM with your address and Iíll send you a kit, gratis. The awesome machine cannot be without Drags to match.


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mhc on October 22, 2017, 02:59:42 AM
Thanks again guys, and thanks for your patience.

  ... Have you decided on a drag stack yet?  

I did consider using an under gear set for a 4 stack like you did Mo but I don't think I could fit a 98-60 sleeve in with two dogs and like you said in your Mag 10 post - I not sure there would be enough support for the metal washer using the 98-155 sleeve.  :-\  

Donnyboat is right, I do cut my own carbon or delrin washers sometimes, but making thin metal washers like those in Bryan Young's kits are a bit beyond me - I've got some 0.5mm 316 SS sheet but find it's hard to keep it flat when cutting and filing the washers.

Is that the same drag kit as a squidder?  If so, Mike, send me an PM with your address and Iíll send you a kit, gratis. The awesome machine cannot be without Drags to match.

Thanks Bryan! The 5-10 does use the same drags as the squidder - I'll send a PM.


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mhc on October 22, 2017, 03:51:31 AM
A quick update, including photos of the reel fully assembled for the first time.

To attach a magnetic piece of galvanized iron to hold the magnet(s) I used the threaded insert where the level wind gear was attached to the tail plate;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_22_10_17_4_04_00.jpeg)

The assembled reel (including the eccentric lever made from 316 SS);

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_22_10_17_4_05_01.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_22_10_17_4_13_33.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_22_10_17_4_07_03.jpeg)

The screw I used to attach the galvanized plate was a tad too long - it popped a piece of side plate out. I've shortened the screw and will epoxy the piece of plate back in when I give the galvanized plate a coat of epoxy to protect it. The photo below shows the piece missing near the bearing cover;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_22_10_17_4_47_56.jpeg)

Mechanically, the reel has turned out as well as I had hoped - it's free spinning with heaps of free spool, I think it will need more than one magnet for my casting skills.

Mike


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Tiddlerbasher on October 22, 2017, 04:08:25 AM
Lovely job Mike. When choosing magnets go for the neodymium in N42 or N52 grade - they are much stronger than the more common N35. I have found that the best effect came from pairs of magnets alternating N and S. Ultimately it's more about how close they are to the spool for the greatest breaking effect. Shims or stacking 1 or 2mm magnets has also worked for me. I know you will come up with something that works ;)


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mhc on October 22, 2017, 04:50:19 AM
Thanks Chris, I've got a stack of 7mm dia x 2mm thick N52 I bought a little while ago - I'll play around with spacing and stacking them to get closer to the spool and let you know how it goes.

Mike


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Alto Mare on October 22, 2017, 05:09:39 AM
Simply amazing Mike, you have some serious skills.

Sal


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Alto Mare on October 22, 2017, 05:12:11 AM
   Coming along great Mike. Have you decided on a drag stack yet? Just curious because Brian's 5 stack fit in mine...but it was very close to having the top eared washer poking over the gear's rim. I ended up using a 4 stack...a stock 3 stack with Bryan's under gear set. 8)
Try both ways Mo, I could pretty much bet you'll hand up with the same numbers on the drag, but a smoother reel if you use a Delrin under the gear.
Sal


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mo65 on October 22, 2017, 03:05:18 PM
Try both ways Mo, I could pretty much bet you'll hand up with the same numbers on the drag, but a smoother reel if you use a Delrin under the gear.
Sal

   Normally, that's what I'd use, a Delrin under a 5-stack, but this reel's main gear is not as deep as the #5-60. The 5-stack is border line of having that top eared washer popping out. The 4-stack is the ticket here, and it is surprisingly smooth. The carbontex spinning under the gear seems to feel just like the ones spinning inside it. It's actually been a good alternative set up for several reels I've done. 8)


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Alto Mare on October 22, 2017, 03:19:50 PM
Try both ways Mo, I could pretty much bet you'll hand up with the same numbers on the drag, but a smoother reel if you use a Delrin under the gear.
Sal

   Normally, that's what I'd use, a Delrin under a 5-stack, but this reel's main gear is not as deep as the #5-60. The 5-stack is border line of having that top eared washer popping out. The 4-stack is the ticket here, and it is surprisingly smooth. The carbontex spinning under the gear seems to feel just like the ones spinning inside it. It's actually been a good alternative set up for several reels I've done. 8)
Unless you have a gear sleeve with the flats going all the way down to the gear ratchet , I don't see that carbon fiber washer being able to add any additional drag, maybe a little more roughness, but it might be just me  :-\. I have a couple of these 10's and I know the metal keyed washer, along with the carbon fiber washer for under the gear won't fit on these. I guess you could make it work if you had to.

Sal


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mo65 on October 22, 2017, 03:37:34 PM
Unless you have a gear sleeve with the flats going all the way down to the gear ratchet , I don't see that carbon fiber washer being able to add any additional drag, maybe a little more roughness, but it might be just me  :-\. I have a couple of these 10's and I know the metal keyed washer, along with the carbon fiber washer for under the gear won't fit on these. I guess you could make it work if you had to.

   Correct, you'll need the sleeve with flats going to the ratchet. A stock Penn gear sleeve won't work. I'd have to check my Mag 10 thread here...but I think the sleeve was one of Alan's...I got it from Scott's. Unless the bottom ss washer can lock into the flats the whole principal is useless. 8)


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mhc on October 23, 2017, 12:21:58 AM
I don't want to join the old delrin or carbon under gear washer debate  ;D - but I did sort of put a fence sitting combination of delrin with one of Bryan / Alan's under gear washers on a 98-155 sleeve when I triple dogged a jigmaster bridge. I filed the flats down on one of Tom's 9 tooth sleeves and put the keyed washer on to cover the dogs and keep them away from the delrin washer.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_23_10_17_12_45_58.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_23_10_17_12_48_00.jpeg)

I borrowed the filed sleeve out of the jigmaster for this cut down Mag 10 to keep things going until the new sleeves I've ordered from Tom get here.

Mike 


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mhc on November 25, 2017, 04:52:40 AM
Another quick update - Bryan's drag kit has turned up, thanks again Bryan! - as well as a Cortez Conversion 98-155 sleeve I had ordered to replace the one with the extended flats I had borrowed from another reel.
I used epoxy to glue in the small piece of the side plate forced out when I over tightened the screw holding the magnet plate in place;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_25_11_17_1_48_41.jpeg)

I gave the galvanized magnet plate a thin coat of epoxy and swapped the bulky plastic clicked spring for a thinner brass spring to make a little more room for up to three magnets if needed;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_25_11_17_1_47_32.jpeg)

Bryan's five stack drag kit on the right;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_25_11_17_1_49_39.jpeg)

I installed the drags and found the second eared washed was just inside the gear, just as Mo had described when he installed the kit in one of his mag 10's. The following photo is after 'thumb' pressure on the stack and the washers will settle a bit more when the drag is tightened;   

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_25_11_17_1_50_30.jpeg) 

Like Mo said, it would more than likely be OK but I decided to put a slight downwards bend in the ears to be sure they stay in contact with the grooves in the gear. To keep the thin washer flat, I put the body of the washer in a smooth jawed vice and gently tapped the ear using a flat screw driver and hammer;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_25_11_17_1_51_21.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_25_11_17_1_53_15.jpeg)

and with the stack in place;

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_25_11_17_1_54_57.jpeg)

I still haven't come up with a finish for the plates but in the meantime it is now ready to fish - I've spooled it with 50 lb platypus platinum braid and will put a 30 or 40 lb leader on depending on where I first use it.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_25_11_17_1_55_47.jpeg)

Mike




Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Alto Mare on November 25, 2017, 05:50:52 AM
What a reel you have created Mike, truly one of a kind.
Let us know how it handles on field testing.
Thanks for sharing your ideas with us.

Cheers,

Sal


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mo65 on November 25, 2017, 06:50:36 AM
Like Mo said, it would more than likely be OK but I decided to put a slight downwards bend in the ears to be sure they stay in contact with the grooves in the gear. To keep the thin washer flat, I put the body of the washer in a smooth jawed vice and gently tapped the ear using a flat screw driver and hammer.

   Great idea Mike! I never thought of putting a downward bend in those ears, that should be just enough to eliminate the worry of popping over the gear when the drags are backed off. You'll still want to be careful with that 5-stack though...I believe it can develop enough power to stress the gears if ya really cranked 'er down. 8)


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: alantani on November 25, 2017, 10:00:24 AM
amazing!


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Bryan Young on November 25, 2017, 11:23:36 AM
Like Mo said, it would more than likely be OK but I decided to put a slight downwards bend in the ears to be sure they stay in contact with the grooves in the gear. To keep the thin washer flat, I put the body of the washer in a smooth jawed vice and gently tapped the ear using a flat screw driver and hammer.

   Great idea Mike! I never thought of putting a downward bend in those ears, that should be just enough to eliminate the worry of popping over the gear when the drags are backed off. You'll still want to be careful with that 5-stack though...I believe it can develop enough power to stress the gears if ya really cranked 'er down. 8)

I've bent the ears down on a few.  A trick I learned by servicing Shimano reels. 

Looks like Mike had steel gears.  There should be any problems with whatever drag he can get out of the stack.  The brass gears should be fine as well as the teeth in those tiny gear sets are thick.

Mike, great job.  I'm so amazed, and you're welcome.


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: oc1 on November 25, 2017, 12:51:15 PM
Good going Mike.  I don't know what type of finish you have in mind but you might check out Simichrome polish.
-steve


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: redsetta on November 25, 2017, 10:40:21 PM
Great work Mike - I always look forward to your updates


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: David Hall on November 26, 2017, 12:04:03 AM
Wow, fantastic, awesome, tell the truth, you never colored inside the lines when you were a kid did you.


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Tiddlerbasher on November 26, 2017, 04:37:13 AM
Mike - great project executed with skill and patience. It has given me a few ideas for the future - ideas I didn't need I just want more time ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: sdlehr on November 26, 2017, 05:15:38 AM
I'm disappointed in myself for not following this thread sooner. Excellent work, Mike, as usual!!!

Sid


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mhc on November 27, 2017, 03:06:44 AM
Thanks for the kind words guys and thanks for your patience, it's taken a while to get this little monster ready to test. I can blame the lag time waiting for delivery of parts for some of the time but mostly it's just getting the time to spend on it. Thanks again to Sal for the donor reel and Bryan for the drag stack.

  Great idea Mike! I never thought of putting a downward bend in those ears, that should be just enough to eliminate the worry of popping over the gear when the drags are backed off. You'll still want to be careful with that 5-stack though...I believe it can develop enough power to stress the gears if ya really cranked 'er down. 8)
Thanks Mo, but I copied the idea from someone here - not sure who I saw do it first Bryan, Sal or Lee with one of his custom 349 stacks. I agree the gears might not handle the full power of Bryan's kit - I won't be using more than around 8 lbs with it.
Bryan - the color looks a bit washed out in the photo but the 5-10 main gear is brass with finer teeth than the 5-60 main gears.

Good going Mike.  I don't know what type of finish you have in mind but you might check out Simichrome polish.
-steve
Steve - I've been thinking about a paint or some sort of epoxy finish to hide the grey Frankenstein scars on the plates but am concerned about long term durability - if a coating doesn't last it will end up looking as bad or worse than it looks now. I'm leaning towards putting up with the scars and polishing it as it is - haven't tried Simichrome but will look into it. The best option would have been to use a high strength epoxy that cures black to glue the pieces in the first place, then just polish it like you've suggested. Trouble is finding a thick epoxy that cures black, it seems the ones that say they are black, like the PC-7 that I used actually end up dark grey.

Wow, fantastic, awesome, tell the truth, you never colored inside the lines when you were a kid did you.
Haha - nope, the lines were always more of a guide rather than a boundary - a bit like line marking on roads  :o ;D ;D

Next up is a similar thing with a 210 - I've had a good look at squidder spools and the 210 side plates and don't think I can use a squidder spool with the 210 head plate or a squidder tail plate with the 210 spool, so it will be 210 spool width with modified 210 head and tail plates.

Thanks again,
Mike


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: hurt locker on November 30, 2017, 04:22:10 AM
Awesome craft man ship! Great thread and Thank you for sharing your great work.


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Pelagicide on September 05, 2018, 03:27:49 PM
I dont mean to speak for him, but looks like he is re-profiling the side plates to eliminate the level wind and reduce the overall diameter.  By adding the 3mm plates and removing the original inside chrome plates he will be changing to a stronger, narrowed stand and using the much stronger 501 narrow solid spacer bars in lieu of the original round posts.  In the end he will end up with a stronger reel in a more compact size, as compared to the original Mag 10.   Bill

Now that's customizing a reel! I'm embarrassed to even ask my life question - doubly so because I can't even figure out how to post a picture that illustrates my issue better than I could ever describe it!


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: mhc on December 22, 2018, 05:05:00 AM
A year later.... I've gotten around to field testing the cut down Mag 10 and love it! I didn't get to test it's capability with a large fish but it was faultless landing a few small fish and a couple of red throat sweetlip around 40cm (16")

(http://alantani.com/gallery/26/7995_22_12_18_12_43_25_267392120.jpeg)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/26/7995_22_12_18_12_43_44_267402291.jpeg)

Mike


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Alto Mare on December 22, 2018, 05:45:17 AM
There is nothing like field testing, from looking at the pics, that would make sense to bring it closer to the rod.
Keep up your excellent work Mike.

Sal


Title: Re: Penn 10 Mag - cut down
Post by: Donnyboat on January 03, 2020, 02:35:39 PM
Thanks for taking us along Mike, a few learning curves along the way, it came up great, the sweet lips are quite good eating, did you get many of them, thanks again, cheers Don.