This Crack 200 came along with another reel that I purchased and since I didn't see much information on this reel, I decided to brake it down and show it.
First thing I want to mention, the plate screws are very tiny and soft, not one screwdriver that I own fit the slots on those screw, so I made my own
(https://i.imgur.com/D6ApGpp.jpg)
and the break down of the reel
(https://i.imgur.com/1nfiwv6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dT7WrVg.jpg)
nice and strong drag knob
(https://i.imgur.com/YDXUWxC.jpg)
a layout of the wing nut, bushing and spring
(https://i.imgur.com/FLtQp1U.jpg)
the clicker tongue under the spool is designed in such a way that it will not come out unless you line up the tail part just right
(https://i.imgur.com/aSpoZP3.jpg)
the thrust washer for under the spool is felt
(https://i.imgur.com/zx8td0S.jpg)
the top of the spool has just 1 washer, appears to be thin leather
(https://i.imgur.com/zGbmL7f.jpg)
the handle is pretty sturdy
(https://i.imgur.com/r5Gfqf2.jpg)
and a look on the inside by removing the side plate cover
(https://i.imgur.com/h8CuUk1.jpg)
I'm impressed with what I saw in this reel, one of the reason I wanted to post about it
removing the ss plate and crosswind gear reveals a beefy spool shaft, the gear appears to be ss as well
(https://i.imgur.com/Kz3lpWV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iS9qNTB.jpg)
spool shaft pulled out
(https://i.imgur.com/nIa1G3D.jpg)
a closer look on how beefy it is
(https://i.imgur.com/SvAI7lO.jpg)
the bail removes with very little effort
(https://i.imgur.com/KSepTBA.jpg)
I read somewhere the line rollers on these reels freeze up at times. The line rollers are ss with brass insert.
I believe they are made very well, maybe a drop of oil every once in a wile would help. the roller on this reel was spinning just fine
the rotor comes with a nice cover plate. Sand would have a hard time trying to get through this plate...I'm amazed with every little parts I remove on this reel
(https://i.imgur.com/JVXSxkX.jpg)
a closer look at the parts under the cover plate
(https://i.imgur.com/vkX4sTS.jpg)
this washer on top has a pin on the under side that activates the bail release spring
(https://i.imgur.com/OBrVkYc.jpg)
check out that spring, same design as a shaft on a commercial garage door
(https://i.imgur.com/GlpEkRN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iMtchfb.jpg)
the anti reverse dog situated under the rotor
(https://i.imgur.com/P3R2U2s.jpg)
a look of the under side of the rotor shows the anti reverse ratchet. the pinion gear crews to the rotor
(https://i.imgur.com/iQKyIQH.jpg)
the ss ( stainless steel) shaft glide in a ss sleeve which is attached permanently to the housing, the pinion also glides on that ss sleeve
(https://i.imgur.com/aKNcNEE.jpg)
to me this is one of the best design I've seen on a spinner, zero wobble with the rotor or spool on this reel
(https://i.imgur.com/wXDYmiW.jpg)
all parts completely off the reel and cleaned. Had to be really careful with this one, I don't have any spares...that should change soon
(https://i.imgur.com/UMaEgjf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Vnt3qhd.jpg)
The reassembly of the parts
(https://i.imgur.com/oaBur1j.jpg)
pic-up cam needs to go first, or you won't be able to install the pic-up lever assembly
(https://i.imgur.com/otWTiaC.jpg)
springs and cam bearing next
(https://i.imgur.com/1MN5UeJ.jpg)
set your pic-up cam spring loose and tighten it afterwards by turning the cam with a nice size flat head screwdriver
(https://i.imgur.com/xw1nduG.jpg)
there is a set screw to hold the tension on the spring, the pic-up lever will help with holding it in place
(https://i.imgur.com/f1ZvYmM.jpg)
the anti reverse dog back in position
(https://i.imgur.com/Wv3oRop.jpg)
the rotor back in place
(https://i.imgur.com/phJeEUF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/J5AV3Iq.jpg)
the shield
(https://i.imgur.com/QDRa8MD.jpg)
I punched some Delrin washers and carbon fiber washers, as stated earlier this reel takes one on top and one at the bottom
(https://i.imgur.com/RuemBGt.jpg)
these should really help this reel, the ss bushing and the drag knob are also helping with the drags.
The Delrin washer on the ratchet on the spool shaft
(https://i.imgur.com/j3xZil2.jpg)
and in it goes
(https://i.imgur.com/ZGgIYZX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EocAuVI.jpg)
crosswind gear
(https://i.imgur.com/BRzExvV.jpg)
crosswind plate next
(https://i.imgur.com/6NKwIu4.jpg)
the main gear
(https://i.imgur.com/1Ylclua.jpg)
the main gear next to the 750ss main gear to show the its size
(https://i.imgur.com/YkTdQqx.jpg)
plate and handle back on
(https://i.imgur.com/53tvryN.jpg)
the spool with a new carbon fiber washer
(https://i.imgur.com/uwZCIH7.jpg)
drag knob
(https://i.imgur.com/n8X7lR8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XV2udgd.jpg)
and the reel back together
(https://i.imgur.com/9kyq91h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GkqMTRB.jpg)
I was really amazed by this reel and it left me wondering why the new manufacturers pull away from this amazing design.
From what I've seen, this reel could be dunked and still not miss a beat. I"m also thinking there might not be a need for replacement parts on these, the reel is built like a tank.
Enjoy it!... hopefully it will help someone in need when servicing one of the same.
Sal
Great service and cleanup job, Sal!
Best,
Fred
Well done, Sal, and thanks for posting! The old east coast surf guys swear by those and their Luxor predecessor. A lot are still in use.
Just an FYI, those are the type of reels Robert Koelewyn based his Van Staal designs on, although he wanted to greatly improve on it.
Excellent timing Sal...I just got one of these...I'm sure this post will be a great guide as I tear into mine. 8)
Looks a lot like a Van Staal.
Great tutorial Sal and an interesting reel. I had a quick look on ebay and it seems more than a few people like them if the prices are anything to go by.
Mike
Thanks guys.
Tom, interesting information about the Van Staal and I could see why.
I'm not sure how much they improved it, but to me an anti-reverse bearing along with a silent dog...even though the clicking doesn't really bother me personally, a couple additional washers in the spool and that's all this reel needs.
The spool has a ss bushing pressed into it, there might be a possibility to lower that bushing by machining it to accept a couple additional drag washers.
If the unti-reverse dog could be relocated, a nice big carbon fiber washer at the bottom of that rotor or spool might be even better.
I'm still studying this reel, I will definitely fish it as is for now and see how it goes. I might leave it as is.
I have seen some with drilled spools, they look amazing, but I don't think its a good idea on this one.
This reel is sealed pretty tight and that's without gaskets, the machined pretty reels will defeat the purpose.
Mike, yes these are not cheap, unfortunately they will soon get more expensive.
I took these pics a litte while back and wanted to make sure I grabbed a couple of reels for myself before posting about it here :)
I'm glad you guys enjoyed it.
Sal
Thanks for the tutorial Sal. I like those reels. Simple and effective. I just wish the reels has a little bit more drag though. Similar to the Lexor and other reels coming from France during that era.
I think you said it best, built like a tank...that was probably their demise...no need to purchase another reel once you had one of those.
Obi-Wan Pennobi at his best. Nice work Sal!
BTW Sal, what is that green grease you are using? Every time I turn around, you are using a different grease...
Good job ! Thanks for taking us along on the service job !
That looks like one tough reel - thanks for taking us along Sal.
Quote from: Bryan Young on November 09, 2017, 01:55:35 PM
BTW Sal, what is that green grease you are using? Every time I turn around, you are using a different grease...
It caught my eye too Bryan. Is it a type that works well in spinners? If so I'd like to get some, I always seem to be thinning grease for spinners. 8)
I tore down a couple of its baby brothers, an A & a B, a couple of years ago. Don't know if you ran into this or not, Sal, but it took me longer to figure out that the drag knob pin/screw only fits into the bushing one way than it did to put the whole rest of the reel back together. I didn't pay close enough attention when I took the drag knob apart. One side of the bushing is threaded a little and the other side isn't so the pin will only go in completely one way for the threads to start into the knob body. I kept thinking the pin, slot and holes weren't lining up. ::)
Here's what those little guys look like, they're cute little lite size spinning reels and fun to fish with. They were one of the very first, in 1949, to come out with an infinite anti-reverse. There's a little spring on the main shaft rotor tube behind the pinion that stops reverse movement when the A/R button is activated.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/17004_09_11_17_4_06_46_223761626.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/17004_09_11_17_4_06_46_22374707.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/17004_09_11_17_4_06_40_22375823.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/17004_09_11_17_4_06_39_223742127.jpeg)
Quote from: Bryan Young on November 09, 2017, 01:55:35 PM
BTW Sal, what is that green grease you are using? Every time I turn around, you are using a different grease...
No Bryan and Mo, it is the same I've been using for over a year now. The grease is Shimano Premium Grease and really like it.
It is a product of Germany, the color is honey, but somehow it turns green in all my pics, I can't figure out why :-\.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on November 09, 2017, 07:07:20 PM
I tore down a couple of its baby brothers, an A & a B, a couple of years ago. Don't know if you ran into this or not, Sal, but it took me longer to figure out that the drag knob pin/screw only fits into the bushing one way than it did to put the whole rest of the reel back together. I didn't pay close enough attention when I took the drag knob apart. One side of the bushing is threaded a little and the other side isn't so the pin will only go in completely one way for the threads to start into the knob body. I kept thinking the pin, slot and holes weren't lining up. ::)
Here's what those little guys look like, they're cute little lite size spinning reels and fun to fish with. They were one of the very first, in 1949, to come out with an infinite anti-reverse. There's a little spring on the main shaft rotor tube behind the pinion that stop reverse movement when the A/R button is activated.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/17004_09_11_17_11_48_53_22370371.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/17004_09_11_17_11_48_53_223732390.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/17004_09_11_17_11_48_52_223701932.jpeg)
Ok Tom, this poves that I'm normal, I did the same exact thing with this reel ;D. The slots on the spring nut helped me figure it out.
That's a nice little reel you're showing, could you post a larger pic if possible? I'm not able to zoom those in .
Thanks Tom.
Sal
Sal, thanks so much for posting this. My father has an old Martin Surf-o-matic that appears to be the same exact design. It needs to be serviced and this post is extremely helpful to me.
I was wondering about you opinion of the click click click. That seems to be a common knock on those. I guess when all you can find to complain about is the sound then it's a darn good reel.
You're one smart cookie Sal..... buying up a few before mentioning it here. Thank you very much for sharing.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on November 09, 2017, 09:55:48 PM
I was wondering about you opinion of the click click click. That seems to be a common knock on those. I guess when all you can find to complain about is the sound then it's a darn good reel.
You're one smart cookie Sal..... buying up a few before mentioning it here. Thank you very much for sharing.
-steve
People complain about the clicking on the old Penn Spinfishers too. I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, they're very quiet and smooth.
Very interesting--the original post & comments. Will read it again more thoroughly when I have more time.
Frank
Quote from: Alto Mare on November 09, 2017, 08:47:43 PM
Ok Tom, this proves that I'm normal, I did the same exact thing with this reel ;D. The slots on the spring nut helped me figure it out.
That's a nice little reel you're showing, could you post a larger pic if possible? I'm not able to zoom those in .
Thanks Tom.
Sal
Done! I revised the pics on my post and added another closeup of the bronze body without parts or grease.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=23319.msg257411#msg257411
Thanks Tom, much better now.
With the exception of the bail pic up mechanism, that little reel is basically the same.
Tom, did they ever offer a wrench to remove the pinion? my gears look great, just like to have one if they did make it, or might have to figure something out.
Thanks everyone, I'm glad you've enjoyed it. I'm happy that I run into this little jewel, I like everything about it.
By the way, I just put the 200 on a scale, the weight is 1lb. My 650SS, another of my favorite weighs in at 1lb 8 oz.
I'm not surpriced that it would be that light, the housing is just a little bigger than the main gear...they knew what they were doing.
Best,
Sal
I don't know, Sal. It's been a couple of years since I did those. I know I couldn't get the pinion out so I just removed the felt washer behind it and left well enough alone. The felt washer oils the pinion tube/bushing and helps quiet it. I don't remember seeing a C-clip and if I remember right I thought it was pressed in at the time. That's why I left it alone.
The anti-reverse is silent and activated by a slide button on the lower right side of the body. The mechanism and function is really quite simple. The main component is a coil spring with a long extension and screw loop on one end and a short extension with a hook on the other end. The coil slips over the tubular extension just behind the pinion gear. The long end of the spring is held stationary by a screw into the body. The short hooked end fits into a slot toward the rotor end of the half circle shaped piece of metal (arm). The coil portion of the spring is concealed from view by that piece so I provided the photo that clearly shows the spring, the tubular extension on the rotor cup it fits over and the slot that the short end of the spring hooks into. The A/R button is attached to the circular piece of metal (arm) in the center where it appears an arrow points down. When the A/R is deactivated the handle turns freely in either direction. When the button is slid forward the half circle arm rocks forward, raises and adds tension to the coil so that the handle can't be turned in reverse. The entire operation is silent in both directions and no matter where you cease forward movement the handle cannot be turned backwards. It was way ahead of its time.
Thanks for the information Tom...good stuff!
About the pinion, I thought it was pressed in as well, but looking for parts I discovered its not the case. These pinions are screwed in:
(https://i.imgur.com/rwynkRT.jpg)
There has to be a wrench that would mesh with the teeth on the pinion, I couldn't see it any other way :-\
Some mention that these reels are simple, from the design standpoint, I personally don't see anything simple on these reels, well, maybe now that they've shown us how it's done :). I read somewhere they were put together by clockmakers.
Thanks again Tom.
Sal
Hi Sal, interesting, thanks for showing, I would also like to know, what type of grease you used on the gears, please, cheers Don.
Interesting, Sal! I had no idea it was threaded, but by the looks of it there really is no reason to remove it unless it's worn or has a chipped tooth. Everything that needs to be cleaned can be cleaned while attached to the rotor. Nice to know, though, just in case.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on November 10, 2017, 10:43:22 AM
Interesting, Sal! I had no idea it was threaded, but by the looks of it there really is no reason to remove it unless it's worn or has a chipped tooth. Everything that needs to be cleaned can be cleaned while attached to the rotor. Nice to know, though, just in case.
*You are correct Tom, there wouldn't be a reason to remove it, but I would still like to have that special wrench to remove it...if they ever made one.
Quote from: Donnyboat on November 10, 2017, 07:51:38 AM
Hi Sal, interesting, thanks for showing, I would also like to know, what type of grease you used on the gears, please, cheers Don.
*Hello Don, sorry I just caught your question.
The grease is Shimano Premium Grease made in Germany.
Best,
Sal
My brother got me one of these cool ol' reels...it is a beast indeed! I may have to hunt down a smaller model to try fishing it. I really like the anti-reverse design, it has very little back play. Thanks Sal for the tutorial, it made the clean up a cinch! 8)
Oh, you did better Mo, you got the box as well...very nice. I see you have the same pound of dried up grease in yours ;D.
Take that baby out and try it on some cats, I bet a 40-50lb one won't stand a chance ;)
I'm glad you got one.
Sal
How do these compare size wise to other reels, like dam super size?
Quote from: handyandy on August 27, 2018, 04:27:46 PM
How do these compare size wise to other reels, like dam super size?
Due to it's design ( and a beautiful design it is), it isn't easy to compare to others. I would say it's closer to the DAM 300 than the super
(https://i.imgur.com/weLueH6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/x7kPQNO.jpg)
Best,
Sal
Sal thanks for the pics I was just curious never seen one in person to know and hard to really say from pictures when they aren't next to something else I know the size of. Your tutorial and break down has me eye balling these beauties, and wanting to buy one off the old fleabay for myself. Was just trying to gather an idea what I might use it to fish for. You two speed super looks awesome.
Never a problem Andy.
My opinion to you is to grab one. :)
Sal
I'm keeping my eyes peeled for a deal, some on the fleabay, but not many. Just out of curiosity what are you using for a punch set? That is one tool kit I'm missing from my arsenal of tools. I've been considering buying one as it would be very handy for cutting out drag disc. There have been plenty of times when I've been working on engines one could have come in handy when I've made my own gaskets for odd ball engine parts. I don't mind spending a little bit for quality tools and I've been eyeing a few different punch sets, but figured I'd ask what you've been using as you seem to use it quite frequently in your tutorials for drag disc that always look nice.
Yes I use mine a lot. If you're only doing a few at a time you could get away with anything, as I'll show here.
You just need too get creative :)
The part from the faucet did great for me, you'll just need to keep it sharp
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7996.msg136641#msg136641
One day I happen to be at the right place at the right time and scored these:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7996.msg195982#msg195982
These cutters were recommended to me from friends here, but were always so expensive.
I was happy when I found those.
Good luck!
Sal
"First thing I want to mention, the plate screws are very tiny and soft, not one screwdriver that I own fit the slots on those screw"
Sal, I own several of these reels and I have never been able to find replacement screws for the sideplate. By any chance were you able to tell what that thread size is?
Frank
Sorry Frank, I don't. I do have a friend in Italy that is a huge collector on these, he should know. I will ask him when I get a chance.
If you're not collecting and fishing these, I would probably dill them and tap to a more common size, that would be best.
Sal
Thanks Sal. Several years back I went as far as sending the screws to a fastener supply company and they couldn't figure out what they are. I think I'll take your advice and tap them to a common thread size.
hey Sal.. Ive got got a couple crack 100 reels...one has a a screw into handle coller.. other one does not...and there looks like there was some kinds of felt ring around base of spool.. if you happen to talk to your friend about these reels ..could you ask if felt ring replaceable..or might have a replacement he might want to sell...and what about screw and determening period built...reply backs appreciated..Joe from Massachusetts
Hello Joe, I never looked at the 100 and dont even have one, so I couldn't answer you.
I'm pretty sure one of the members will chime in, if anyone knows it's him.
Tommy?
I don't have a Crack 100, I just have 2 Luxor As & 1 Luxor B. It's been about 3 or 4 years since I was into them so things are vague. If I remember right they had a white/gray felt washer that is used as a dust protector. You may have to make one & dampen it to install it. Those parts are pretty obsolete around here.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on February 06, 2020, 03:26:02 AM
I don't have a Crack 100, I just have 2 Luxor As & 1 Luxor B. It's been about 3 or 4 years since I was into them so things are vague. If I remember right they had a white/gray felt washer that is used as a dust protector. You may have to make one & dampen it to install it. Those parts are pretty obsolete around here.
Sorry Tommy, I thought the little guys you've shown us in the past were 100's...didn't mean to put you on the spot.
Joe, I'm going to try to contact my buddy and see if he has any information.
Sal
Ok, I just contacted my buddy and he answered within minutes :)...unusual
He basically just sent some drawings which might help:
(https://i.imgur.com/CtMsdxk.jpg)
He also sent others and I will post them here...just in case someone needs them:
(https://i.imgur.com/CtMsdxk.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/owOU1Zo.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/bJSk1lf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/F3hoThy.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IApwH2R.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/cQhV5VE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8QtFi8b.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/UJOolIu.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/fAEbqVd.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/Nvs1X05.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/eYYbkSv.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/l8Me1x3.jpg)
He does not see any washers, as you've mentioned and asked if you could send a pic showing it.
I wouldn't be too worried about it, we could usually make our own.
It is written in Italian, I could help or you could translate online.
Sal
The felt washer is #129 on the 100 schematic and goes between the pinion and rotor. I couldn't remove the pinion, I'm pretty sure it's pressed into the rotor. You can see it when you enlarge (by clicking on them( twice)) either these two photos.
Hey Tommy,
I think Joe was asking about the handle, unless I got it wrong.
The 100 parts list does show both, as he mentioned.
You could blearily see the layout and Joe was correct, two completely different design with the knob.
The felt washer under the spool is nothing new, I have seen them before.
You are showing the rotor, bug joe meant the spool.
Those are better off replaced with something different for when the time comes.
You could use Teflon or Delrin... a much better choice in my opinion.
Tommy, I haven't removed it yet, but I believe that pinion has threads and are reversed.
Youveould need to go click wise to remove it.
Sal
Joe also asked this:
Quoteand there looks like there was some kinds of felt ring around base of spool..
I figured he must have been asking about the felt washer between the pinion and the rotor. :-\
hey sal and tommy ..in pictures you can see ring on bottom of spools..the 200 spool has nothing in it the 2 100 spools do..and you can see the screw khob on the 200 and 1-100 not the other..didnt know what it was that i can replace material with on spools...must have been to keep particles out is my thought?...let me know what your"s are..
Quote from: joe k on February 06, 2020, 08:32:48 PM
didnt know what it was that i can replace material with on spools
I don't know about the crack, but many reels with that spool brush thing have two tiny holes in the groove. The wire on a small brush (that looks like an extra small pipe cleaner) is inserted into one hole, the brush is wrapped around the spool and the other end of the wire stuck in the other hole. A normal pipe cleaner is usually too large to work but I have seen the extra small ones for reels advertised somewhere.
-steve
steve...thats what popped into my mind ..couple minutes after getting up and walking away..after posting spool pics...let me know if you can recall where to find small ones...todays pipe cleaners def to big..Joe
Sal...thanks for your time on this ..really appreciated..anymore input appreciated..take care ..Joe
I have used yarn and/or fly tying chenille for the really thin ones. It's main purposes are to prevent slack line from getting in between the rotor & spool, and also as a dust protector. If I use yarn I untwist it and use, as close as possible, the correct strand, or maybe even two. You can run the ends through the holes and tie them together. Maybe not quite as good as original but it works and you be lucky to ever find the original chenille.
It wasn't a problem Joe.
If you are going to restore one of these to its original shape, I could see replacing that thread.
But if you are just going to fishing it, I wouldn't worry about it, I would probably just remove it and let it go without it .
Sal
Hi
Does anybody have a schematic of the reel. The bail on my newly obtained Crack 200 wont flip over. Dont know how to remove the non roller side and potential probelms? Dont want to break this
You can go back a couple of pages in this same thread, Stephan—
You will see where Sal posted all of the Crack schematics.
Best, Fred
Thanks Fred. Part 230 is the end cap of bail system to rotor. How does it come off?
I don't have a 200, Stephan —-
But I do have a couple of new Luxor 300's in boxes with extra spools and all paperwork that I would like to get rid of. They are the same as Crack reels.
The part you are referring to is called a "Cam Cap".
I just cocked back the bail to the open position —- then squeezed the bail towards the rotor —- and unscrewed the cap.
The threads are very fine, and this part is made of German Silver —- so caution is warranted here —- the part is most likely unique as well as unobtainable.
The next question might be —- if it working fine now —- does it need to come off? Or will some cleaning and oil be the ticket —- and not remove it and take a chance on ruining the part if stuck on there?
Best, Fred
You are right Fred.I couldn't remove the cam cap. I removed The rotor and turns out the spring latch system for bail was gummed up. By removing and cleaning I was able to get bail system working without touching bail wire cam cap. The bail system was a little tricky but easy to figure out with pictures.
I would be interested In Luxor reell. Pm me
Email sent to your personal email so I could include photos.
Best, Fred