I managed to get one of the prototypes finished up in time for my recent fishing trip. The kings werent around the 2 days we fished, but I did catch a couple of 3' sharks on my jigmaster. A couple of miles offshore in a kayak is no place for a jerky drag, and it performed flawlessly. Buttery smooth, consistent, and no start-up resistance. Im sending a set to Sal for a full evaluation.
Boy oh boy....when these are available for sale I think I'm going to need a few for my Super Jigmaster and a few other reels! Amazing work as always
Looks great Adam. Sal is gonna love it and so will the rest of the crew!
............... Lou
Quote from: STRIPER LOU on November 12, 2017, 12:50:07 PM
Looks great Adam. Sal is gonna love it and so will the rest of the crew!
............... Lou
Yes Sir! these will come handy for the gears that don't have the ear slots going all the way to the bottom.
A good upgrade by a great machinist.
Sal
Those look good, they should work in a Newell too I hope
Quote from: Alto Mare on November 18, 2017, 06:53:30 PM
Adam, I was able to test the insert kit today and it did very good.
This is a good upgrade, but I'm not comfortable with the thinner carbon fiber washers.
Here is what you sent me to test
It is fair to mention that the insert went on the Prochallenger's kit
(https://i.imgur.com/CG27iuh.jpg)
The insert protrudes 2mm on the lip of the main gear, from my testing, this is not an issue.
I did notice the carbon fiber washers on the 3 washers kit being a little large on the ID.
Those appear to be for the 113H, but the OD is smaller :-\
Nevertheless, the carbon fiber washers did very good.
Decided to go with the 3 washers kit first.
I used 3- 1mm carbon fiber washers, 3- .80mm keyed washers and the smaller of the two thick washers 1.80mm on top. I also used Prochallenger's 10.5mm space...in case some want to use it and the stock spring washer.
I always like to use the stock spring washer on these smaller reels.
I was able to get the Jigmaster to 32lb by pulling on the reel. Drags felt very smooth all the way.
(https://i.imgur.com/9ClOVZk.jpg)
These are only testing numbers to see if I could destroy the washers, or reel.
I wouldn't be too worried about pushing this reel with the parts I'm showing, to 20lb if I had to while fishing.
All parts looked good afterwards. I wrote 30lb, but it was a couple of pounds passed.
(https://i.imgur.com/Da2G1JJ.jpg)
Next I tried the 4 washers kit
(https://i.imgur.com/vXJFgO3.jpg)
I used the 3 keyed washersand the 1.80mm thicker washer on top. I like to use one of the same keyed washer in the stack on top, along with the thicker washer, but didn't have the room.
I was able to get the same numbers but the carbon fiber washers frayed at the edge.
They're still intact, but could pretty much bet the .70mm washers will fail.
I've done many tests for prochallenger, somewhat similar to these. My advice to Alan was for him not to use anything under 1mm, when dealing with eared washers.
You could still use those, but I would put a limit on how far you could push them...I wouldn't use them.
You have a winner here with the 3-washers kit, even though they did great, I would still like to see the ID tighter.
While we're talking about the Jigmaster, I noticed the Delrin washer is too close to the pin for the dog spring.
It is working, but would be better if it was 2mm smaller on the OD.
Thanks for your hard work designing parts that we all enjoy here.
Since i'm showing some detailed pictures, you could copy and paste this message on the site if you wanted to, I don't mind.
Thank you Adam, keep up your excellent work.
Sal
The 1mm thick washers Sal tested were in fact 113H washers that had been cut down to fit the smaller insert. I was in a time-crunch to have a couple of functional kits before I went to North Carolina last month, and didnt have any material to cut proper washers out of. I dont think it will have much of an effect on the drag numbers, but in the production version, the washers will be sized appropriately like the thinner ones shown here.
I will get pricing up as soon as I can.
30 plus lbs on a Jiggy...where used to be the realm of an 80 International....
Awesome work.
Adam, give me a shout when you come to NC.
Quote from: thorhammer on November 28, 2017, 03:57:27 AM
Adam, give me a shout when you come to NC.
I was in Oak Island around the middle last month for the fall King Mackerel run. They didnt show up the weekend I was there though, only a couple were caught the whole weekend in the area. I wonder if it was from the pressure of tournaments the previous couple of weekends. Ill try to do it again next year.
Good KM fishing down there generally; i lived in Wilmington from 04-11. Mouth of Cape Fear river is usually great then, when the bait starts to move out. They kill the kings off the piers in May down there.
Adam
Any idea when the Jigmaster insert will be ready to ship?, please put me down for 1 kit.
Joel8080
Is there a thread somewhere to explain the physics if this type of drag mechanism? It seems to offer less surface area than the stock washers, so I'm scratching my head...
Quote from: Decker on December 04, 2017, 08:06:32 PM
Is there a thread somewhere to explain the physics if this type of drag mechanism? It seems to offer less surface area than the stock washers, so I'm scratching my head...
It actually offers significantly more friction area than a traditional setup. In a traditional setup, you have a carbon fiber washer sandwiched between a keyed and eared metal metal washer. When the drag slips, the carbon fiber washer turns with one of the metal washers, so only one side of each washer is producing drag. With my kits, the carbon fiber washers are locked to the gear and the metal washers are locked to the gear sleeve. So when the drag slips, both sides of each carbon fiber washer provide drag.
Because of this, even with only 3 drag washers, this kit has 5 working drag surfaces. The carbon fiber washer at the bottom of the stack only provides one working surface, since the bottom side is resting against the gear. But the carbon fiber washers above it all use both sides.
This may have been the beginning, or at least the beginning of where we are now (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6517.0)
113H tested by Sal (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=12766.0)
Adam, thanks for the info; makes sense to me now. Glancing at those older threads, I see that Sal was closely involved in the development. Thank you both for your efforts!
I hope to be an active enough fisherman one day to put those kits to work hard. ;)
Quote from: Decker on December 05, 2017, 05:07:41 AM
Adam, thanks for the info; makes sense to me now. Glancing at those older threads, I see that Sal was closely involved in the development. Thank you both for your efforts!
I hope to be an active enough fisherman one day to put those kits to work hard. ;)
Joe, Adam pretty much explained it all, I just want to add that using these washers, you could set the drags to your liking:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6517.msg56201#msg56201
These were made possible by Penn.
As for the inserts, this guy lit the match under our feet, most of everything else we do here, evolved from this man:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6517.msg55649#msg55649
"DOC "
Guys like Adam, Alan C. and Lee have been doing a great job from here.
I have many parts from all three of these gentlemen.
And lets not forget Bri-Bri, his is not really related to the versa drag system, but he did come up with an excellent drag upgrade as well.
We have many choices here, all work very well.
Best.
Sal
Just a newell guy question. Aren't 500 gears the same dimensions as standard newell gears?
Would these work in a newell too? I've been using Bryan's upgrade kits and the work better than great. Just another option. I know when I order CF washers from smooth drags they're the same so it seems like it should work.( I use 3 in 220's since over 8lbs is over kill). I'll buy a set if there's one available and give it a shot.
Sheridan
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 06, 2017, 01:30:43 AM
Joe, Adam pretty much explained it all, I just want to add that using these washers, you could set the drags to your liking:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6517.msg56201#msg56201
These were made possible by Penn.
As for the inserts, this guy lit the match under our feet, most of everything else we do here, evolved from this man:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6517.msg55649#msg55649
"DOC "
Guys like Adam, Alan C. and Lee have been doing a great job from here.
I have many parts from all three of these gentlemen.
And lets not forget Bri-Bri, his is not really related to the versa drag system, but he did come up with an excellent drag upgrade as well.
We have many choices here, all work very well.
Best.
Sal
Hats off to all of you!
QuoteAs for the inserts, this guy lit the match under our feet, most of everything else we do here, evolved from this man:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6517.msg55649#msg55649
"DOC "
Thanks for remembering and giving cred. I appreciate it.
Doc.
.
Would this kit fit any of the 4/0 based pro gears and when can we purchase :)
Quote from: mrwilson99 on January 07, 2018, 04:59:32 AM
Would this kit fit any of the 4/0 based pro gears and when can we purchase :)
No, but his 113H insert kit will
Is this jigmaster drag insert kit available?
Ill have a couple of the 500 kits this week as well. Ill get a final count when I get all the parts back.
Outstanding. My hope is renewed. I would also appreciated greatly if you did have the CF friction plates available. I would make my own only to insure I could get my hands on your Jiggly inserts.
I would also like one of your #4, counter balanced, SS, crank arms w/6mm handle hole for a Jigmaster and please send me a PM with bill. Billing me today is fine as I'm aware that you drill handle holes upon customer order.
Lastly I need to purchase, 10 Derlin, under gear washers for the 114H, along with 3 of your thick top washers for for the 114H stack.
Thank you,
Hoyt
I would like a jigmaster insert kit as well as a fine thread star drag
Sign me up for 2 jigmaster drag kits please. Can't wait to give them a try!
I would like 3 jigmaster kits when available. sign me up if there is a surfmaster edition!
Hi Adam,
I'm interested in 2 jigmaster kits also. Let me know if they are available.
Feel free to PM me.
Best,
Victor
Quote from: GoldenRage on August 02, 2018, 03:06:01 PM
Hi Adam,
I'm interested in 2 jigmaster kits also. Let me know if they are available.
Feel free to PM me.
Best,
Victor
They havent been available aside from a few testers yet. Im working on a production run though, they will be available soon.
Hi Adam,
Understood ........... just checking
Thxs,
Victor
I can go for 3 sets when they are ready.
Hey Adam;
Fishing season is coming to a close here in SoCal and reel building time is upon us. I would dearly love to have one of your 500 drag insert kits to work with. I know there are many requests for your inserts and I have been drooling like Pavlov's Dog begging to get my hands on one.
I need to purchase.... 10ea. Derlin, under gear washers for the 114H, along with 5 of your thick top washers for your 114H insert stack.
Tell me what you have available to work with and I will get you some Christmas money double quick.
Thank you,
Hoyt~
Adam;
I will purchase any portion of my order that is available now. My customers are wanting their reels finished. One simply needs handle arm and star to be returned to it's owner and I get paid as well Anything you could send would be greatly appreciated.
Hi
How is the Jigmaster inserts looking?
joel8080
The last word we had on the Jigmaster drag insert was last August. Your response was "soon". Anglers have been ordering many of these and in my case, "soon" has come and gone.
This long wait has my customers questioning my ability to perform. They are not returning for my services because I take too long. This reaction by my customers, necessitates that I must cancel all of my Jigmaster insert orders and do something else.
Good luck,
H
Life happens, Adam is not a thief so cut him some slack.
With my parts I have to rely on others to cut them. My cutter has large better paying jobs and they are expanding rapidly My cutting cost went up 100% and SS is not cheep either so I can loose more $ when I get parts that aren't within my specs. Micro customers like me are being left behind. I have made parts for as cheep as I could and passed on the price, but have lost $ doing so. I am still trying to get someone to cut my parts and will give my drawings to anyone that thinks they can get them cut. A better use of my time, like +$ rather than -$, is wiring boats and supervising/consulting on the installation of industrial machinery and I have been doing more of that lately.
Quote from: wothoyt on January 13, 2019, 03:17:26 PM
The last word we had on the Jigmaster drag insert was last August. Your response was "soon". Anglers have been ordering many of these and in my case, "soon" has come and gone.
This long wait has my customers questioning my ability to perform. They are not returning for my services because I take too long. This reaction by my customers, necessitates that I must cancel all of my Jigmaster insert orders and do something else.
Good luck,
H
You know, every one of us that sell stuff on or thru this website have lives, family, and other full time jobs that take precedence. Why don't you take this up with Adam personally, via PM instead of crapping on this thread?
Quote from: Cortez_Conversions on January 13, 2019, 05:10:27 PM
Quote from: wothoyt on January 13, 2019, 03:17:26 PM
The last word we had on the Jigmaster drag insert was last August. Your response was "soon". Anglers have been ordering many of these and in my case, "soon" has come and gone.
This long wait has my customers questioning my ability to perform. They are not returning for my services because I take too long. This reaction by my customers, necessitates that I must cancel all of my Jigmaster insert orders and do something else.
Good luck,
H
You know, every one of us that sell stuff on or thru this website have lives, family, and other full time jobs that take precedence. Why don't you take this up with Adam personally, via PM instead of crapping on this thread?
EXACTLY! Right address the person not the thread. >:(........................Joe
That would work if Adam would answer his personal messages.
Mike
I'd like inserts also and have friends asking
me for upgrades. But...until I have parts in hand, I'll
promise nothing. We can't do anything about available
inserts until they become available. Like others have stated,
life gets in the way and many factors play into availability.
I'll watch and wait, hoping that they become available again.
-g
Some good options if the inserts aren't available, Bryan Young's drag kits or the pro challenger gear sets to name a few. Life gets in the way of things at times, patience is a virtue.
I wont have the drag material I ordered until the end of this month. I simply cant sell drag kits that I dont have material for.
I have had a lot going on, and its really been cutting into the time I have available to make parts. But I do plan to keep the drag kits going, if nothing else. Some of the factors have been out of my control, and others life just got in the way of. But this is why I make it a point to not accept payment for parts I dont have on hand. I know it sucks to wait on parts that keep getting delayed, but it sucks WAY more when you have already paid for them, and I dont want that to ever be an issue.
Thanks for the update Adam.
-g
Quote from: Three se7ens on January 13, 2019, 08:58:54 PM
I wont have the drag material I ordered until the end of this month. I simply cant sell drag kits that I dont have material for.
I have had a lot going on, and its really been cutting into the time I have available to make parts. But I do plan to keep the drag kits going, if nothing else. Some of the factors have been out of my control, and others life just got in the way of. But this is why I make it a point to not accept payment for parts I dont have on hand. I know it sucks to wait on parts that keep getting delayed, but it sucks WAY more when you have already paid for them, and I dont want that to ever be an issue.
Adam: Now that I started doing business, I now know what it is to wait for parts and people in a hurry for a miracle to happen. Some understand and some don't. Just read the bottom of my comments.
Joe
X2 on thanks for the update Adam. i'd like some insert drag kits too, have replied to the thread, and PATIENTLY wait... btw as has been said, yours are GREAT products and well worth the wait.
I don't mind waiting on good products, def getting more kits when they're available, thanks Adam!
I'm just happy that we have machinist willing to create these items.