I spoke with Tiburon about producing a very limited run of extra wide frame/spool kits for the Penn Senator 14/0 and 16/0, resulting, in effect, a 20/0 Senator. They said that they would be willing to consider waiving their usual minimum 50 unit run requirement and produce a run of 20 kits.
I am going to deliver a reel to them on my next trip to LA so that they can do the engineering and deliver a quote, but I anticipate that these kits will be pricey. My best guess is that they will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $400-500 plus shipping, which I realize is a ridiculous amount to spend, but I am a ridiculous guy when it comes to something special, so I am in for one, assuming that my estimated price is in the ballpark, if I can find 19 other equally ridiculous reel nuts out there.
If you started with a nice $300 14/0, you would only be into the complete reel for less than $800, and you could sell your old spool for $100-150, leaving you with a net cost of less than $700 for a very impressive and rare reel, one of twenty.
Please let me know if you might be interested and want me to add you to the mailing list for this proposal.
Thanks,
Randy
Im in for sure.
Randy I would be in for one. I am not crazy about wild colors I guess just polished aluminum / silver or possibly black would be my choices. I have a nice 16/0 that I would use for it ! Let me know. John Taylor
Randy it sure would be nice if Tom and you could get together to sell a complete kit. Side plates, frame, and spool. There is nothing better than a group effort to make it a great project.
Mike
Go ahead and call me crazy.....I'm in for one...black or silver would be the most logical color choices IMO
Ted
I will pay extra if you make John Taylor's kit pink.
Quote from: 1badf350 on December 23, 2017, 11:17:40 PM
I will pay extra if you make John Taylor's kit pink.
You will pay a lot extra !! The cost of the set !! LOL !!
It would be a buy of a life time. Never to be made again. It would make a killer shark reel.
Mike
You know I'm in! ;)
I had to read that title twice, making sure what I was reading. ;D
I'm in, Randy --
Thanks!
Best,
Fred
In.
That's 8, including me. We are getting close!
Let me bang on some doors!
This will be epic if it comes to fruition. :o
If they make a Red One, I know Sal won't be able to resist. ;)
Hmm...
If Tom produces a full frame 14/0 kit, I might prefer this over the 20/0 spool/frame. Maybe if Tom made 14/0 sideplates that were compatable with the 20/0 frame/spool? Not sure I want to commit either way at this point.
I think you would be able to sell 20 kits though, simply for the wow factor.
I will likely be putting my large reel budget towards a full set of big lever drags, but these large senator frame/spool projects should generate a lot of interest.
John
Come on John. ;D
Wouldn't you like to have both. ;)
I don't want a lot of WOW factor just 20 frames would keep them in the scarce category !! Merry Christmas to all !! John Taylor
PS serial numbered would be nice !!
Quote from: Shark Hunter on December 24, 2017, 09:11:11 PM
Come on John. ;D
Wouldn't you like to have both. ;)
Yes...yes I would.
;)
Quote from: 54bullseye on December 24, 2017, 09:11:38 PM
I don't want a lot of WOW factor just 20 frames would keep them in the scarce category !! Merry Christmas to all !! John Taylor
PS serial numbered would be nice !!
That is a great point. Scarcity is key to the down-the-road collectability.
This will be an investment in my future :)
Quote from: Shark Hunter on December 24, 2017, 09:11:11 PM
Come on John. ;D
Wouldn't you like to have both. ;)
Thats my philosophy. "If in doubt, get both."
I'm in... if... I can use it for lingcod fishing. Randy?
Steve
Quote from: Tightlines666 on December 24, 2017, 09:04:16 PM
Hmm...
If Tom produces a full frame 14/0 kit, I might prefer this over the 20/0 spool/frame. Maybe if Tom made 14/0 sideplates that were compatable with the 20/0 frame/spool? Not sure I want to commit either way at this point.
I think you would be able to sell 20 kits though, simply for the wow factor.
I will likely be putting my large reel budget towards a full set of big lever drags, but these large senator frame/spool projects should generate a lot of interest.
John
John, since you have probably completed your Christmas shopping for those near and dear to your heart, how about taking care of that most deserving member of your family. If you can use these, I will make you one heck of a deal. They are both 9+. I realize that you may not have been planning to pull the trigger just yet, but this might be just the ticket for you.
Thanks,
Randy
Quote from: swill88 on December 24, 2017, 10:04:26 PM
I'm in... if... I can use it for lingcod fishing. Randy?
Steve
Absolutely Steve!
Lost my (eight year old rule) mind. Should've stopped after reading once. But can't really miss this block party..have enough 209's to spare to cover it prolly, lol
Ya,,,,I'm in for 1 in silver ;D
Quote from: Vintage Offshore Tackle on December 24, 2017, 10:43:32 PM
Quote from: Tightlines666 on December 24, 2017, 09:04:16 PM
Hmm...
If Tom produces a full frame 14/0 kit, I might prefer this over the 20/0 spool/frame. Maybe if Tom made 14/0 sideplates that were compatable with the 20/0 frame/spool? Not sure I want to commit either way at this point.
I think you would be able to sell 20 kits though, simply for the wow factor.
I will likely be putting my large reel budget towards a full set of big lever drags, but these large senator frame/spool projects should generate a lot of interest.
John
John, since you have probably completed your Christmas shopping for those near and dear to your heart, how about taking care of that most deserving member of your family. If you can use these, I will make you one heck of a deal. They are both 9+. I realize that you may not have been planning to pull the trigger just yet, but this might be just the ticket for you.
Thanks,
Randy
Randy,
I am definitely interested in the 130ST, and I could probably use the 80. I was hoping to put together a set of 5 130ST reels. I have been waiting for a complete set of used reels to pop up locally. Is that an SW? PM me what you had in mind.
John
Edit:
Randy,
Thank you for your generosity in providing me with my first 130ST.
I can't wait to put it to the test on a big fish!
John
Ya,,,I'm in for sure,,? What's the line capability,,,, :D
Put my name on the list. I will take one. Merry Christmas,
Mike
Quote from: Benni3 on December 25, 2017, 02:06:57 AM
Ya,,,I'm in for sure,,? What's the line capability,,,, :D
All of it...
Somehow knew Mike was all in even before Daron would call him lol
One thing about owning one of these reels is you become part of history. After your gone it will still be here and talked about who built and owned it. They will remember this website and all the project and ideas it provided. Just like we are doing right now.
Mike
Randy...add me to your crazy list. Silver frame and spool. Iv'e got an old 14/0 I could put together....no idea what I'd use it for..maybe make a lamp?
Greg
That's 10. Halfway there, and enough to ask Tiburon to do the engineering and develop a cost estimate, but before we can ask them to begin, we need to decide: How wide?
The frame width (between the side plates) of the standard 16/0 is 5.0". For a point of reference, Daron, would you please measure the width between the side plates of your Everol 20/0 between the side plates and the spool diameter?
Thanks, and Merry Christmas!
Randy
The Diameter of the 16/0 is pretty much the same. The width is an inch wider on the Everol.
Outside dimensions are roughly 7x7" on the Everol. The Gear case sticks out another inch.
The 20/0 spool is 6x6". The Meat and Potatoes is in the frame. ;)
I know the spool needs to be Heavy Duty on the Tiburon Conversion.
Thanks for taking this on Randy.
Imagine a reel the size of a gallon of paint. :o
The arbor on the 20/0 spool is massive. They claim it holds 1000 yards of 300lb test mono.
This is gonna be awesome! I agree with John Taylor that serial numbers would be nice. I think a highly polished silver would be a great color choice to kinda blend with the original chrome trim of the Senators.
6"X6" sounds like a nice round number for the spool. Someone said square spools are good.
The frame, especially the stand, and reel foot will have to be strong. You may want to consider a stronger foot design, or one that bolts to the frame with inserts, such as that from the Penn 130VIS? Or maybe something simpler? Rod braces may provide the necessary strength and stability for the standard foot design, but we may need longer braces, or find a reel, such as the Everol that has existing braces to do the job. Maybe someone could make Stainless lugs for the project?
Then again, the stock chromed lugs, and braces would match all the other chromed hardware, unless of course folks hot-rod it with all the aftermarket SS or Titanium parts that are already available.
Probably best to keep this project as simple as possible though.
John
We need to stick to a plan here.
I know Tiburon Traditionally makes their spools black.
I'll take what I can get to keep the cost down.
I would not go any wider than 6" on the spool.
That is a lot of weight when line is added.
The Everol spool is made a bit different. It is hollow with a solid stainless shaft that attaches to the gearbox.
The drag discs are also mounted to the spool and the drag lever just pushes on the spool to apply drag.
We are limited on the spool design based on the bearings on the 16/0.
I just think it needs to robust as possible.
The stand made into the frame should be ample enough as long as it has four mounting holes with ss hardware.
Just my opinions. ;)
Thanks to everyone for their well-considered comments. I am just thinking out loud, but here are my thoughts so far:
I have not spoken with Tom yet about the possibility of making matching side plates, but if he might consider it, it would be great to have all of the parts anodized at the same place at the same time to ensure a good match. I had planned on everyone using the stock Penn side plate assemblies, including the rod brace parts, and I would guess that's what Tom would expect if he makes plates as well.
I am on board with numbering the kits so long as I get number 1 of 20. Just kidding...maybe we could auction off the rights to number 1, and give the proceeds to Alan's kid's fishing charity?
Silver seems like a good choice on the color. I think that I would prefer a matching silver spool, but if everyone else wants black, as John has suggested, that's OK too.
Because there is no spool spacing adjustment on the big Senators except for the little shims that go on the spool shafts, I was going to ask Tiburon to make the frames "old-style", that is without the flange that replaces the inner trim rings, to avoid adding any structure that might affect the spacing between the side plates.
John and I are on the same wavelength regarding the foot. I had already priced out the 30-130VS stand, 264-130ST gasket, 33C-130VSX clamp kit and six 63-30T screws on Mo's website and at retail, it adds up to a lot of money ($104.50), but I would guess that either Mo might be willing to help out with a good deal for twenty sets for this project, or that Tiburon can buy the parts wholesale from Penn, or that Tiburon could sell the frames drilled and threaded for the parts and we could each source the Penn parts on our own. One other possibility might be to machine an integral base into the frame and let Tiburon produce the clamp kit.
I agree with Daron and John about the 6" X 6" spool. Tiburon machines their spools out of a solid billet of aluminum and can make the arbors as large as necessary without increasing the cost, since they are paying for the whole block of aluminum anyway. It is my understanding that the big Senators were designed to fish 130 lb. line, with somewhere in the ballpark of 50 lbs. of drag. I am not aware of anything heavier than 200 lb. Dacron being in common usage back in the 1930's or even now. I am not an engineer, but I would guess that increasing the width of the spool will put additional stress on the bearings (and maybe the ends of the spool shaft) when the line is pulling under heavy drag from the outer edges of the spool.
I realize that the state of the art Everol may be able to handle extreme loads, but I do not want to lead anyone to believe that they can fish 100 lbs. of drag with 300 lb. line with this reel. I believe that Tiburon will be able to design the frame or spool to withstand the additional stress without driving the price out of sight, but I am concerned about pushing the stock Penn parts beyond their limits. I would guess that most of these reels will never see saltwater, but I am planning to instruct Tiburon to engineer the frames and spools to safely fish 130. What does everyone think about that?
Thanks again, and Merry Christmas!
Randy
I don't have a boat....or any use for a 14/0 let alone a 20/0. But jesus you know how wide kits make us Hawaii anglers feel all tingly inside.
Quote from: Yogi_fish808 on December 25, 2017, 10:10:08 PM
I don't have a boat....or any use for a 14/0 let alone a 20/0. But jesus you know how wide kits make us Hawaii anglers feel all tingly inside.
Kyle, think of the possibilities with a wide 16/0 and a drone...you could fish Ni'ihau from Oahu.
Randy..think it should go without saying No.1 has your name on it ... Merry Christmas Ohana!
Greg
One for me too.
Randy can you PayPal me for whatever I owe on the narrow kits that are now finished.
Keith Rawson
Quote from: handi2 on December 25, 2017, 10:55:07 PM
One for me too.
Randy can you PayPal me for whatever I owe on the narrow kits that are now finished.
Keith Rawson
Keith, I just send you a PayPal invoice and a PM.
Thank you, and Merry Christmas!
Randy
Randy i would prefer the new style frame. If we buy the parts separatly the inner rings are 30 dollars each plus shipping. If we get the side plates made with adjustment built in it will be cheaper. That money can go into the reel seat. Just looking at both sides and each have their problems fix one create another.
Mike
I'm no engineer but those reels held up with metal bars, small screws and a metal foot held in by small screws. Surely machined aluminum would be stronger. A reel foot screwed to the frame should be up to the task. I'm sure the tiburon guys could come up with something.
Trying to think of a way to commit to that much cake at this point not in the cards. Best of luck pulling this all together
Daron, can you check my brace kit on the Everol for dimensional fit? As I recall it is probably an inch longer than stock and I may have even cut the eye hooks down. They may work for this and the aluminum barrels could be anodized (that was my plan at some point).
I think also Randy should have # 1 then just go in order that people signed up for them ??? For me silver spool just like frame would look good IMHO. I also agree no wider than 6" spool. I guess as long as we are going for it hot rodding the drags and possibly a stainless steel bridge and having double dogs like Daron does would help complete the package !! Oh yeah one last thing would be one of those neat molded grasps / handles I have seen on some other posts maybe made oversized from stock Senator grasps in black and white or black white and clear !!!! John Taylor
I don't have the money or need for this, but I want it in purple please! ;D
Quote from: Vintage Offshore Tackle on December 25, 2017, 09:46:11 PM
Thanks to everyone for their well-considered comments. I am just thinking out loud, but here are my thoughts so far:
John and I are on the same wavelength regarding the foot. I had already priced out the 30-130VS stand, 264-130ST gasket, 33C-130VSX clamp kit and six 63-30T screws on Mo's website and at retail, it adds up to a lot of money ($104.50), but I would guess that either Mo might be willing to help out with a good deal for twenty sets for this project, or that Tiburon can buy the parts wholesale from Penn, or that Tiburon could sell the frames drilled and threaded for the parts and we could each source the Penn parts on our own. One other possibility might be to machine an integral base into the frame and let Tiburon produce the clamp kit.
I agree with Daron and John about the 6" X 6" spool. Tiburon machines their spools out of a solid billet of aluminum and can make the arbors as large as necessary without increasing the cost, since they are paying for the whole block of aluminum anyway. It is my understanding that the big Senators were designed to fish 130 lb. line, with somewhere in the ballpark of 50 lbs. of drag. I am not aware of anything heavier than 200 lb. Dacron being in common usage back in the 1930's or even now. I am not an engineer, but I would guess that increasing the width of the spool will put additional stress on the bearings (and maybe the ends of the spool shaft) when the line is pulling under heavy drag from the outer edges of the spool.
Randy
Randy,
Forgive me, but I agree with everything except for the clamp. Every Tiburon frame I have owned has had the foot made into the frame.
The VS stand is a great idea, but that clamp is way overpriced, and lacks the beef. For $104.50, I'm sure Tiburon could come up with something better. JMO
Quote from: thorhammer on December 26, 2017, 12:58:54 AM
Daron, can you check my brace kit on the Everol for dimensional fit? As I recall it is probably an inch longer than stock and I may have even cut the eye hooks down. They may work for this and the aluminum barrels could be anodized (that was my plan at some point).
I'll have to get back to you on that John.
I just saw this, and I'm headed out for work.
Daron
Is Tiburon designing this or are we designing it?
Tiburon would do the design and engineering based upon our wish list.
I trust you guys
We must be getting closer to our minimum order amount ?? Keeping my fingers crossed that this comes to reality 8)
Are the color choices silver or black ??....or will Tiburon do them in any of their standard colors ??
Ted
I agree with Daron, Let tiburon figure out the clamp, They have a ton of expierence and could come with something seemless. I'm on the fence Randy, Trying to figure how to pull if off. Maybe I could just swing the frame and keep it for future reference. I'm working on it but don't count me in until I nail it down. Thanks Heridan
Quote from: Maxed Out on December 26, 2017, 09:09:38 PM
We must be getting closer to our minimum order amount ?? Keeping my fingers crossed that this comes to reality 8)
Are the color choices silver or black ??....or will Tiburon do them in any of their standard colors ??
Ted
Please let me remind everyone that we are in the very early stages of determining the feasibility and cost of producing these kits, so if it doesn't work out, I hope that everyone will not get mad at me. I am going to do everything that I can to make it happen, as I think that this would be the most impressive aftermarket Penn product that I have ever seen and I would love to have one.
In answer to Ted's questions:
1. I am fairly certain that Tiburon will produce the kits in any of their standard colors (black, silver, red, purple, electric blue, cobalt blue and electric green) but we might have to wait until they are running that color for other products. We will number the frames, and (I am not sure about this) it may be possible to individualize the graphics, at an additional cost, as well.
2. We are up to 14 kits, as follows (in order received): Me, 1badf350, 54Bullseye, MikeySM, Maxed Out, Shark Hunter, foakes, thorhammer, Tightlines666, Benni3, TheGreatMaudu, IslandGypsy, Handi2, , Army of One, for a total of 14 with Swami805 as a more than likely #15 (you can make some rods for me Sheridan), and this is enough to go forward. I would hope that the production would be fully subscribed within the Tani Ohana, but if not, I am confident that I could sell the remaining kits through ORCA or elsewhere.
3. It sounds like 6" X 6" large arbor spool would be ideal, so that's what I am going to propose to Tiburon
4. Regarding the base, I am going to impart to Tiburon the need for a rock solid mount to handle the extraordinary stress that it might be subjected too. I will suggest the several options that we have discussed (Penn hardware or integral machined aluminum, but will leave it up to them to propose the design. In actual use, the forward and rear rod braces, if adjusted properly, will take a significant amount of load off of the base, but I am not going to mention that to Tiburon.
5. I have not yet talked with Tom about producing side plates for these kits, but I will as soon as we have a definite go on the project. My contact with Tiburon is out this week but I am going to deliver a 16/0 to him on January 24, if not before, along with our parameters. Keep your fingers crossed.
All comments, criticisms and suggestions are welcome.
Thanks,
Randy
Sounds good Randy !! Let me know when you need some money !! Thanks for doing this. John Taylor
Randy,
I totally understand this is just a Pipe Dream until the Fat Lady Sings. ;D
The price is my only worry. If it doesn't work out,
I already Forgive you. ;)
I'm in for a 1 gallon black or sliver .
Anthony,
You are the Man! ;)
Quote from: Shark Hunter on December 24, 2017, 09:02:08 PM
Let me bang on some doors!
This will be epic if it comes to fruition. :o
If they make a Red One, I know Sal won't be able to resist. ;)
thanks for knocking on my door ;D this is going to be great project!!!!x
......Bump
Hi Randy, any update on this kit becoming a reality ??
Ted
I don't want to be the one keeping this from happening so put me in for a silver frame and silver spool.
I don't have anything for a 14/0 reel except a lonely SS CC sleeve sitting on a shelf.
Can we call this one "The Kraken"? ;D
Quote from: Army_of_One on January 22, 2018, 04:53:01 PM
Can we call this one "The Kraken"? ;D
Robin, I was planning to keep it simple and just call it "20/0", but you can call yours anything that you like!
I am planning to make a trip to Tiburon in the next two weeks, and am bringing them a 16/0 Senator so that they can work out the engineering and come up with a cost for 25 sets. Hopefully they will be able to produce the kit at a price that we can afford. I would expect to have the information mid-February. I will let everyone know as soon as I hear anything.
Well I am building a reel no matter what happens. I just traded for a ss gears and bought a ss sleeve. Let see what I have to trade someone would want for the rest of the parts I need.
Ill take 2 if it will bring it closer to happening.
Keith
Solid move, Keith!
If the price isn't in the stratosphere count me in... I might have to get it for Jack to go with his 20/0 Everol (Thanks Daron). ;)
Dom
I am shipping a 16/0 to Tiburon today to get the ball rolling. I am chomping at the bit to make this happen. Hopefully we will have a cost estimate within the next two weeks. Stay tuned...
Thanks,
Randy
Tiburon has completed their engineering of the 6" wide 20/0 kits for the 14/0 and 16/0 Senators and I am going to meet with them this Wednesday, February 7. I will post a status report late this week.
Thanks,
Randy
Thanks Randy!
Looks like its going to be a reality a 20/0 kit. I have been searching for parts. Im setting good now.
Mike
Mike, it's not a done deal yet, so please don't invest any more money in the project until we know for sure that it's a go.
Randy don't worry I was going to build a Penn 118 no matter what happens. It was already on my to do list for reels.
Mike
I have set up a meeting with Tiburon for March 12 at which time we will either get it going or get off of the pot. Keep your fingers crossed!
Thank you for your patience,
Randy
If anyone can make something like this Happen. It is you Randy. ;)
I am keeping the Faith. 8)
Thanks Randy it gives us hope that the deal is still alive.
Mike
2 to 3 mouths ;D
No,
Next Mouth, fo sho. ;)
Count me in for 2 -16/0 Frame/Spool Kits. When funds are needed please send me a PM. Thank You.
Quote from: Vintage Offshore Tackle on December 23, 2017, 08:22:29 PM
I spoke with Tiburon about producing a very limited run of extra wide frame/spool kits for the Penn Senator 14/0 and 16/0, resulting, in effect, a 20/0 Senator. They said that they would be willing to consider waiving their usual minimum 50 unit run requirement and produce a run of 20 kits.
I am going to deliver a reel to them on my next trip to LA so that they can do the engineering and deliver a quote, but I anticipate that these kits will be pricey. My best guess is that they will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $400-500 plus shipping, which I realize is a ridiculous amount to spend, but I am a ridiculous guy when it comes to something special, so I am in for one, assuming that my estimated price is in the ballpark, if I can find 19 other equally ridiculous reel nuts out there.
If you started with a nice $300 14/0, you would only be into the complete reel for less than $800, and you could sell your old spool for $100-150, leaving you with a net cost of less than $700 for a very impressive and rare reel, one of twenty.
Please let me know if you might be interested and want me to add you to the mailing list for this proposal.
Thanks,
Randy
Randy, do you have any 14/0s for $300?
Trevor