I have finally acquired all the needed materials minus all of the guides. I have a Large AFTCO Super Heavy Duty Bigfoot Roller guide as my first guide off from the reel and a #12 size FUJI Super heavy duty conventional guide. How many of what size guides should i get and how far should i space them apart?
-JnM
The first question would be whether you are intending to cast baits with the rod, or getting them out to sea by other means (kayak??)
Second question would be what reel type (spinner or convensional) and what line type/strength.
Cheers from sunny Africa
Jeri
It is gong to be paired with a Penn Senator 12/0, baits will be kayaked out... too heavy of a setup to cast...
Forgive my ignorance but what is the advantage of such a long rod for Shark fishing if you will not be casting? It seems to me that the longer rod would give you less leverage during the battle but I don't do this type of fishing so I am interested in learning new things.
Thanks,
Scott
There's no real benefit to only using 1 roller guide and the rest ring guides. Go all ring guides, The newer material for the rings is very slick, I'd get the heavy duty Alps guides and tip. On a stout 10' rod 11 guides should be good, might get away with 10. Don't go smaller than a number 10 ring on the tip too, since you'll likely have a knot that needs to go thru them. I build a fair amount of 9-10' shark rods here. the blanks of choice is a super seeker 100H or a Calstar 100mag. These guy's fish mainly 80lb to 200lb braid. Don't know what blank you're using so do a static test for guide placement. Also make sure the foot of the reel fits in the reel seat. Those things are pretty big
I'm with Scott on this. The long rod will help keep the line up out of the waves and off the sand bar. But, if you hook a fish big enough to need a 12/0 reel you will not be able to hold the rod tip up while standing.
-steve
I fish long rods for just about everything. There is a technique that can be used for big fish. Still painful but possible
We built a very deliberate casting rod for sharks at 11', but never for use with something as big a a 12/0 reel. The benefits of a roller guide as stripper would be questionable, as there are some seriously low friction rings about these days, rather than using 30 year old logic for a roller stripper. Personally, I would plan to use either Fuji Alconites or Silicone Carbide rings, probably ending in a string of size 12, to allow such things as wind-ons to pass through unhindered.
The trick is going to be getting the rod pulled over to some sort of fighting curve when determining your guide spacing. And also just what 'poundage' you think you are going to be able to exert with such a relatively long rod. We dropped our specialist shark casting rod down to 11' from 14', to gain leverage for the angler during the fight, and it worked like a dream, without losing casting ability. But, as you are not casting you would progressively get more and more leverage benefit from every foot you go shorter than 10'.
Ultimately, you are the one that is going to have to fish it, and at this stage, it is the time to make the best decision on your thought process.
Hope that helps.
Cheers from sunny Africa.
Quote from: oc1 on December 29, 2017, 07:56:07 PM
I'm with Scott on this. The long rod will help keep the line up out of the waves and off the sand bar. But, if you hook a fish big enough to need a 12/0 reel you will not be able to hold the rod tip up while standing.
-steve
The object of the game is the use of an Aftco Harness.
Quote from: JnM Fishing on December 30, 2017, 12:28:14 PM
Quote from: oc1 on December 29, 2017, 07:56:07 PM
I'm with Scott on this. The long rod will help keep the line up out of the waves and off the sand bar. But, if you hook a fish big enough to need a 12/0 reel you will not be able to hold the rod tip up while standing.
-steve
The object of the game is the use of an Aftco Harness.
You get a big enough shark on that line and you'll need a harness with a 7' rod.
7' is the Maximum Length I fish with. That is only if the rod has a detachable butt.
The rest of my rods are 6' or under rated at 80-130. 100lb mono minimum.
Stand up from the beach is what I do.
I don't want to get all rainbowed up on a big shark.
My Question wasnt what to fish with but how many guides i should put. I appreciate the information though! future rods will be built shorter ;D .... How many guides should i have on a 10ft rod?
I would suggest that 7 or 8, plus tip ring would be sufficient. As mentioned earlier, getting the guides taped on then getting the rod pulled over into full fighting curve is going to be a challenge. You need to do this to make sure the spacing and positioning of the guides keeps the line away from the blank - otherwise you will burn the line due to friction.
Suggested sizes would be 25, 20, 2x16, 4x12, then 12 tip. If the blank is particularly flexible, then use higher type guides like Fuji MN or RB frame styles.
Cheers from sunny Africa
Jeri
Look up
Static testing on the internet. Lots of videos to show you how it's done. Here I use 10-11 guides based on the static test as the guides serve to keep the line from touching the black. The jig gods here have fairly soft tips. Depends how heavy the blank is. Those Fuji guides are great but cost a fortune. Alps guides are the same quality and ring material but will save you some bucks. The static test is key to getting the number of guides and spacing were it should be
I've caugt several yellowfin tuna in the 100-150 class on 10' rods with no harness.Not ideal but doable it just takes a little different technique. The trick is to keep the tip high and think like the top 3-4' of the rods isn't there since it's almost useless for pulling power. If the rod is perpendicular to your body you're losing. Totally doable but it will give you a good whipping
Ideally a road of 6-7' will give you the best chance like everyone says but the 10' might overcome some other limitations. No bite no fish
This is what has worked for me. Big fish short rod (acid wrapped please) conventional reel - need distance? bait boat/ kayak (not me someone else :D). Long cast (100yds plus) it's got to be smaller fish with a long 10/12 ft plus rod.
In the UK surf/rock fishing it is becoming quite normal to see rods in the 13 to 16ft range - BUT we ain't catching sharks on that gear ;)
Fishing will always be a compromise, to some degree - my 2 cents.
The questions I have are 1: is this a one piece thru the handle using a gimbal? 2: is it a unibutt? 3: What blank are you using? If you have a 9' 0r 10' blank, using a unibutt then the amount of guides and spacing depend on the trim. Lots of ways to go here. Bottom line is you will be the one using it and a lot of great rods come from modifications of the not so great. Good luck to you and post pictures when you have it done and be sure to post the 1st shark!
Dave
It is a through the grip setup. Gatorglass CRB 10ft shark rod 80-130ib class. gimbal on bottom. It will be acid wrapped. Is spine-ing necessary on an acid wrapped rod?
Quote from: JnM Fishing on January 05, 2018, 07:18:31 PM
Is spine-ing necessary on an acid wrapped rod?
Always spine the rod. Depending on the application and what you want the rod to do is determines the position of the spine. Conventional wrap I always put on top. Now there is a debate on this. If the rod is used for distance casting then the spine may be put on the underside as it will load the cast with more power. Same with a fly rod or spinning. With those 90% of the time is casting, more if you have the luck I do, and the guides are on the bottom so the torque problem is eliminated.
Acid wrap is your call but with the spine on the top and if you get into the fish of the lifetime you'll be glad it's there. Be glad to hear what others say on this.
Dave
A little more info on "long" shark rods . . .
Tight Lines !
I really feel pain when I watch you guys with those rods between legs, can't I send some rod buckets over? ???
Quote from: JnM Fishing on December 31, 2017, 04:39:13 AM
My Question wasnt what to fish with but how many guides i should put. .... How many guides should i have on a 10ft rod?
hey amigo, if you read more carefully two good friends already answered your question some post the question for a second time.
check them bellow.
Quote from: Jeri on December 30, 2017, 05:58:38 AM
The trick is going to be getting the rod pulled over to some sort of fighting curve when determining your guide spacing.
Hope that helps.
Cheers from sunny Africa.
Quote from: Swami805 on December 29, 2017, 02:02:14 PM
Don't know what blank you're using so do a static test for guide placement.
as you noticed already this rod builder professional didnt gave you an "spacing formula", the Key is to dont follow any "spacing formula" for your blank, if you find a spacing formula for your blank take it as a recommendation, but if you really want to build your rod correctly you need to do an static test to find where the guides should be installed.
Quote from: droppedit on January 05, 2018, 08:57:26 PM
Quote from: JnM Fishing on January 05, 2018, 07:18:31 PM
Is spine-ing necessary on an acid wrapped rod?
Always spine the rod. Depending on the application and what you want the rod to do is determines the position of the spine. Conventional wrap I always put on top. Now there is a debate on this. If the rod is used for distance casting then the spine may be put on the underside as it will load the cast with more power. Same with a fly rod or spinning. With those 90% of the time is casting, more if you have the luck I do, and the guides are on the bottom so the torque problem is eliminated.
Acid wrap is your call but with the spine on the top and if you get into the fish of the lifetime you'll be glad it's there. Be glad to hear what others say on this.
Dave
First time I've seen someone use the spine in the same way I do.
As casting is very important in my game and also using a strong rod I tend to play around with the spine depending on the strength of the blank.
If I feel the rod is too strong for me to load properly i'll put the strong side at the top or visa versa.
I nearly always tape my guides and reel to a blank and go cast with it and then also test the line along the rod curve under load. Sometimes this takes the longest time spent on building a rod as I in that process also sometimes decide to lengthen or shorten the blank a bit.
I use conventional reels only.
If you don't identify where the spine of a blank is, you have 359 chances of getting it wrong, as opposed to only 1 chance of getting it right. Even with 'acid wrapped' options, the spine needs to be in the right place to make it work properly.
A while back we were building casting rods for shark with acid wrapped guides, and found that the spine orientation was crucial, especially once the sharks were hooked up.
Cheers from sunny Africa
I agree with Alex and the static test. Bend the rod as though there is a fish on and adjust the guide placement to prevent line rubbing on the blank.
For a shark rod you'll need the fork of a tree or a really heavy piece of furniture to bend the rod and tie it off from the tip while you monkey around with the guide placement.
Look at the pictures above with the guys about to be drug through the sand on their behinds. There is very little bend in their Harnell rods. This seems to be pretty typical of shore-based shark rods.
Personally, I think those guys would be more comfortable and they could put more pressure on the fish using slightly lighter rods. The height of the rod tip and line above the water and the sand bar decreases (gets lower) as the rod bends and that's a disadvantage. But the length of the fulcrum they are pulling against is effectively shortened too. With a light enough rod or with a short enough rod they might even stand up and fight. When they stand up they will get back the loss of effective height of the line above the water and sand bar.
The photos of stiff rods with little bend also show that they do not need so many roller guides on a rod with very little bend under the extreme load.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on April 17, 2019, 07:35:51 AM
I agree with Alex and the static test. Bend the rod as though there is a fish on and adjust the guide placement to prevent line rubbing on the blank.
For a shark rod you'll need the fork of a tree or a really heavy piece of furniture to bend the rod and tie it off from the tip while you monkey around with the guide placement.
Look at the pictures above with the guys about to be drug through the sand on their behinds. There is very little bend in their Harnell rods. This seems to be pretty typical of shore-based shark rods.
Personally, I think those guys would be more comfortable and they could put more pressure on the fish using slightly lighter rods. The height of the rod tip and line above the water and the sand bar decreases (gets lower) as the rod bends and that's a disadvantage. But the length of the fulcrum they are pulling against is effectively shortened too. With a light enough rod or with a short enough rod they might even stand up and fight. When they stand up they will get back the loss of effective height of the line above the water and sand bar.
The photos of stiff rods with little bend also show that they do not need so many roller guides on a rod with very little bend under the extreme load.
-steve
Agree on all of this. Just an extra note: spacing changes with different length rods depending on how they are made. Fast, Moderate Fast, Moderate, etc. The spacing needs to keep the line off the blank. I just built a Rainshadow 50 class Stub rod on a curved butt. Only has two Alps roller guides and roller tip. Perfect for this rod. On a 9' spinner I may use 8 guides. On the same blank conventional it may have 12 guides.
Dwight