As a follow up to my cut down Penn Mag 10 I have started a similar project with the 10's big brother. I had hoped to be able to use a squidder spool so I could narrow it to 146 width but I can't see a way to make it work, the spool is the same diameter and the dimensions of the shaft ends are close, but not close enough to work.
The 210 spool is the same width as the 145 squidders, LB 66 etc, the frames / post length is approx 54 mm & the stock rings are each ~ 0.8 mm thick. this makes the distance between the inside of the side pates 55.6 mm (56 mm rounded). My modified 'rings' will need to be at least 2 mm thick to thread side plate screws into - this means the stand will need to be 52 mm or less wide (56 - (2 x 2)) The only way I could think of getting to that width without a custom stand was to build up a 30-49 with 5 mm spacers inside the 'rings'. I would have liked to use 3mm rings and 4 mm spacers but 4 mm stainless is pretty hard to find - I could have got an 8' x 4' sheet but thought that was a bit much.
I started with a template of the squidder side plate hole locations so I could use Pro Callenger 146 spacers (or maybe a tib or accurate 146 frame later).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_03_10_17_8_31_06.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_31_12_17_4_29_28.jpeg)
Marked the spacers and ring plates out;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_31_12_17_4_30_38.jpeg)
Then used the template to drill the frame holes in the spacers and 'rings'
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_31_12_17_4_32_02_22933865.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_31_12_17_4_31_53_229291347.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_31_12_17_4_33_55_229341256.jpeg)
Roughly shaped the outer edges with a thin cut-off wheel;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_31_12_17_4_34_02_229351537.jpeg)
Tidied them up a bit on the bench grinder;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_31_12_17_4_34_27_229362057.jpeg)
And used a squidder ring as a guide for the spacers;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_31_12_17_4_35_12_229371708.jpeg)
A quick test fit;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_31_12_17_4_44_58.jpeg)
Still a lot to do but it looks to be on track,
Mike
Mike, I'm getting tired just by looking at this. It's amazing to me on what you could accomplish by just using simple tools.
Keep it up buddy! any one could hit a button on a machine, this is it!
Sal
Mike, you are doing it again ;D Keep it rolling ;)
Very interesting. I understand what's going on but it's above my imagination and capabilities.
Quote from: festus on December 31, 2017, 05:47:22 PM
Very interesting. I understand what's going on but it's above my imagination and capabilities.
I'm with Festus. I don't have the patience nor the intellect. Great job Mike. Dominick
Thanks guys, these projects can be a bit of fun to design and build, but not so much during the hours of filing and sanding when you sometimes wish you had a machine that would do it for you. It's OK Sal, I'll get over it! :D
Quote from: Dominick on December 31, 2017, 10:34:45 PM
I'm with Festus. I don't have the patience nor the intellect. Great job Mike. Dominick
Haha - Thanks Dominick, but I suspect you have way too much intellect for this, and enough patience to wait for the professionals to build the reels you want.
Back to the project; Next step was to mark and drill additional holes in the side plates and rings to replace the screw holes that will be removed when the plates are cut down. The frame holes in the rings are countersunk through holes and the side plate holes are tapped with a 5-40 tap;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_01_01_18_1_18_12.jpeg)
The new side plate holes are recessed for the screw heads using a 6 mm straight carbide burr
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_01_01_18_1_21_15.jpeg)
I needed to fill the holes in the side plates where the level wind mechanism was fitted, and add a bit to the opposite side of the plates to accommodate the squidder frame. With the mag 10 project I used a thick epoxy and pieces of bakelite to fill the holes. It seems to have worked well structurally but the dark grey epoxy was very obvious in the finished plates;
mag 10
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_21_10_17_4_48_52.jpeg)
This time I tried chopping up carbon fiber finely and mixing it with a clear epoxy resin, hoping to better match the black plates;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_01_01_18_5_01_16.jpeg)
I used Blu Tack and a strip of baking sheet to make a dam for the epoxy mix on the inside of the tail plate. Blu Tack is normally fairly easy to remove, but I had cleaned the plates well with alcohol to help the epoxy adhere and the Blu Tack also stuck very well ::)
The plates after the epoxy had cured;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_01_01_18_1_52_09_2295469.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_01_01_18_1_52_06_229511758.jpeg)
And after rough shaping;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_01_01_18_1_52_24_229552136.jpeg)
Then chain drilling and filling the inside space of the rings and spacers;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_01_01_18_1_52_53_229571147.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_01_01_18_1_52_48_22956426.jpeg)
And another quick test fit;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_01_01_18_1_53_18_22958354.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_01_01_18_1_53_24_229591950.jpeg)
And with the side plates;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_01_01_18_1_53_58_229612140.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/22/7995_01_01_18_1_53_58_229622035.jpeg)
To be continued....
Mike
Looking great Mike! That's a lot of hand work!
When I started in the tooling business, we cut many, many dies with a saw and were finish filed by hand. When I saw the first filing machine all I could think was OMG.
We were able to do the work with even more precision in half the time.
Boy has that all changed. There's a lot to be said about good hand work and a sharp mind to match. And of course, a ton of patience.
Keep at it and looking forward to seeing the completed project.
Regard's, .. Lou
Mike, I would love to be in your shop and just watch you, as you create things :).
You just got another sticky, and no, I don't give them away easily.
Good job!
Sal
You must have the brain like the first guy to rub 2 sticks together to make fire. Can't wait to see the finished reel. Your skills with hand tools are amazing.
I pull a reel apart and if I get it back together right the first time I'm happy.
Brownell's has black epoxy
Coming along nicely mate!
Thanks again guys, and thanks for the encouragement Lou.
Quote from: Alto Mare on January 01, 2018, 03:36:52 PM
Mike, I would love to be in your shop and just watch you, as you create things :).
You just got another sticky, and no, I don't give them away easily.
Good job!
Sal
Thanks Sal! I hope it lives up to expectations - I'm keen to get this one up and running with it's jigmaster gear set and 145 squidder sized spool. (Thanks again to Mo for his enthusiastic promotion of the 10 & 210 reels).
Quote from: George6308 on January 01, 2018, 05:46:48 PM
Brownell's has black eproxy
Thanks for the tip George - that's one source I didn't look into.
Hey Chris, I've still got a spare 210 here if you change your mind ;) ;D
Mike
Quote from: mhc on January 02, 2018, 11:09:16 AM
Hey Chris, I've still got a spare 210 here if you change your mind ;) ;D
Mike
:D :D Thanks for the offer, but steady on Mike! I've barely started the 349, and still haven't finished the Jigmasters. Then there's the Squidder, the Silver Beach, the Daiwa, the......
I have made a bit more progress with the frame and side plates of this reel.
First I trimmed the spacers to length and cleaned up the new rings. To shape the inside diameter of the new rings I screwed the old 210 rings to the new and filed the inside to match - until the spool fit in the opening.
Once the spool fit inside the rings, I assembled the frame and side plates with bearings and checked for rubbing by marking the inside edge with a marking pen to see where the spool was touching;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_15_01_18_1_03_26_230992170.jpeg)
then used a half round file and sanding drum to remove some material from the areas identified;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_15_01_18_1_02_58_230972486.jpeg)
This process was repeated until the spool spun freely - well almost freely, it still touched slightly when the reel was held horizontal but was fine in a vertical position but I'll deal with that in the final fitting.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_15_01_18_1_03_56_231011578.jpeg)
And shaped the side plates a bit more before applying more chopped carbon fiber and epoxy;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_15_01_18_1_03_15_230981439.jpeg)
This time I took a couple of photos of the carbon before the epoxy was added;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_15_01_18_1_03_50_231001051.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_15_01_18_1_04_34_23102321.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_15_01_18_1_07_03_231031489.jpeg)
Once the epoxy had cured for a day or so, the side plates and rings were screwed together and shaped a bit more;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_15_01_18_1_08_26_231052422.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_15_01_18_1_08_31_231061439.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_15_01_18_1_08_55_231082451.jpeg)
The spacers and rings were sanded a bit more and assembled for yet another test fit;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_15_01_18_1_10_16_23109147.jpeg)
and with the side plates;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_15_01_18_1_10_00_231091961.jpeg)
The side plates will need another application of epoxy - there were a few fine bubbles in the original bakelite this time, plus a few in the new epoxy as well. The frame is pretty close to finished, just needs a bit more fine sanding and polishing.
Here's a couple of comparisons to show the size, with a stock 210
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_15_01_18_1_10_35_231111222.jpeg)
and with a 146 squidder;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_15_01_18_1_26_37.jpeg)
It will be at least a week or two before I get a chance to finish this - thanks for your interest.
Mike
You got some crazy skills Mike, look what you have created. If someone would have told me he was going build that reel using hand tools, I would have said impossible.
Your creations belong in a museum. I bet Tony would love to have those in his display cabinet at Penn with your documentation.
Beautiful job, I love it!
Sal
Very Nice Mike.
You are a Magician. ;)
You are an extremely gifted creator. The step by step photos of your process hide the immeasurable patience you most certainly have.
What's the lead time on one of these if one were to order? Kidding of course
Nick
A 210 the size of a 146 Squidder is a very usable package...this is a winner Mike! 8)
Thanks guys,
Sal there's no special skills, or magic Daron, I'm just lucky to have the time to follow through with a few ideas. Thanks Nick, I'd like to be able to make a few of these and the 10 but I'd need to find a quicker way :)
Mo, I thought you would like it - I'll put another dog on the bridge and I've got a set of 5:1 Newell jigmaster gears set aside to finish it off.
Mike
Quote from: mhc on January 17, 2018, 10:23:16 AM
Thanks guys,
Sal there's no special skills, or magic Daron
Mike
Mike, although I have always agreed with you on whatever you've said or done in the past, I disagree on this comment ;D
Thanks for everything you do here and especially for taking us along ;)
Sal
It's stunning Mike. The heft and lines and satin finish all make a stock Penn look sort of rinky-dink by comparison.
-steve
I've given the side plates another, hopefully last, application of carbon - epoxy mix today, and made an eccentric lever.
The plates were cut down where the eccentric rests so I need a slightly shorter (~ 2 mm) lever to maintain the same arc of movement.
Stock 210 levers are bent to follow the curved profile of the plate;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_03_02_18_5_20_31_232431736.jpeg)
I've liked the idea of wider levers that Ted (Maxed Out) started and Chris (Rothmar2) made for his jigmaster project, so I thought I would try making a tapered lever out of 6mm 316 SS instead of a bent lever. The first step was to mark and drill the hole for the center of the eccentric hole and drill and tap the hole for the stop;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_03_02_18_5_17_14.jpeg)
Next was to file a step to match the depth of the bend in the stock lever;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_03_02_18_5_18_27_23238729.jpeg)
Then file a step on the opposite side of the blank to make a ~ 2 mm thick tab where the lever attaches to the eccentric;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_03_02_18_5_19_09_232412214.jpeg)
File the taper between the tab and where the stop attaches;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_03_02_18_5_18_49_232401746.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_03_02_18_5_19_10_232421326.jpeg)
and check the taper on the side plate;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_03_02_18_5_20_34_232441595.jpeg)
A view of the taper with the stock lever;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_03_02_18_5_21_36_232472093.jpeg)
I was thinking simple straight lines and trimmed the blank to a basic wedge shape;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_03_02_18_5_21_01_23245250.jpeg)
No photo on the plate, but the straight wedge looked pretty bulky so I decided to drill a couple of holes and soften the edges, I didn't get many photos of the process but the file marks on the first photo give an idea of how it was done;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_03_02_18_5_21_58_23248145.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_03_02_18_5_21_26_23246658.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_03_02_18_5_21_59_232492305.jpeg)
Next up is the bridge.
Mike
Nice work Mike, you are a gifted man, & as Sal said, thanks for taking us along, very interesting, cheers Don.
There will never be another clutch lever to match this one, brilliant!
Hi Mike
You would have been a brilliant jeweller.
Greg
Impressive work and bordering on mind blowing...
Thanks guys, I'm happy with how it turned out but it was a bit accidental and over the top in the end. The taper to replace the bend in the stock lever was intentional but the rest sort of happened as I went - for example the oblong hole was the result of making an off-center drill hole symmetrical with a needle file. :-[
Mike
Quote from: Rothmar2 on February 03, 2018, 08:43:35 PM
There will never be another clutch lever to match this one, brilliant!
Yep! I agree Chris. I always enjoy seeing how parts evolve from a piece of metal scrap.
You two are amazing.
Another fine job Mike!...I love it!
Sal
Jeez Louise!
That is Cool! :o
I applaud your desire to do this but much more to see it through. One thing that intrigues me most regarding the old generation Penn reels is that most of the parts like guns take the Colt Single Action Army for instance or even the 1911... the parts can be be fashioned with simple hand tools.
You are a an asset to this site & your actions here represent, to a great level, the driving force & desire that resides within many of us that come here... Jeff
Stuff has been getting in the way but I've been chipping away at this reel, doing bits and pieces when I get time.
I've double dogged the bridge as usual, only this time I used a weird wire spring made from 95 lb trace wire;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_21_02_18_5_39_38_233551239.jpeg)
The wire spring works well with the under gear washer in place - without the washer it flips the dog off first click. ;D
I had mentioned earlier I had a Newell 5:1 jigmaster gear set for this project - I had forgotten that set is currently sitting in one of my jigmasters. Sometime back Joe (Decker) was asking if a 5:1 jigmaster 505 gear set would fit in a 210, so I thought I would give it a go on this one. As discussed at the time, the 5-505 main is a bit taller than the 5-500 main gears and you will need to either modify the side plate or grind down the raised lip on the gear. I opted to grind the gear.
Stock 5-505;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_21_02_18_5_40_17_233621944.jpeg)
I wasn't sure how much it needed to be ground down so I did it a few steps, checking as I went;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_21_02_18_5_40_23_23363446.jpeg)
With a bit over 1 mm left on the lip it was still rubbing slightly - I used a marking penn to check where it was touching;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_24_02_18_4_38_01.jpeg)
It ended up with about 0.6 mm of the lip left;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_24_02_18_4_04_38_23528546.jpeg)
The clicker button was drilled out while working on the side plates. I decided on a lower profile seaboy 190 clicker as a replacement with the original clicker tongue;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_24_02_18_4_05_18_235291933.jpeg)
The 190 button is slightly shorter than the stock button, I had to grind a bit off of the tongue to fit the C clip on;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_24_02_18_4_59_37.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_24_02_18_4_07_05_235312458.jpeg)
With a bit of luck, I should be able to finish assembling it soon.
Mike
She's coming along fantastic Mike. 8)
Thanks Mo - but hold the press with the 505 gear set, I don't think it will work.
I had checked the spool fitting of the pinion gear I had in a bag with the 5-505 and it was fine;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_24_02_18_11_50_58_235641833.jpeg)
Turns out it is a newell pinion I had left over when I swapped a Newell main for a 506 main. It's slightly (~0.3 mm) higher than a 500 or 505 pinion with a thicker ring. Not sure if it's the height or the ring but it didn't sit well in the side plate.
Newell pinion on the right;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_24_02_18_11_51_47_235671278.jpeg)
I then tried a real 505 pinion, it was a good fit on the shaft but the slot didn't fit the shoulder on the spool shaft;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_24_02_18_11_51_39_235662046.jpeg)
I thought about taking the ring off and filing the slot wider, but there isn't much metal to work with;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_24_02_18_11_51_08_235651438.jpeg)
I put the 505 gears aside and put the stock 4:1 gear set out of the 210 in for now. To get to a 5:1 ratio later I'll either use the Newell 5:1 jigmaster gear set that's in a jigmaster at the moment or buy another set of Pro Challenger 5:1 gears.
Mike
The 210 Cut Down is ready for spooling;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_25_02_18_12_58_39_235742473.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_25_02_18_12_58_55_2357551.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_25_02_18_12_59_10_235761982.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/7995_25_02_18_12_57_57_23573804.jpeg)
With jigmaster gears, I would like to call it a home made magnum squidder - but it doesn't have any squidder parts. ::) ;D It has bearings, and the spool is the same size as a squidder 145 (diameter and width) but that is about all it has in common with a 145 so I'll just call it a 210 - cut down.
Mike
How about "Mack-daddy 210 CD"?
Absolutely amazing work both of these conversions have been. Looking forward to what you have planned as your next major surgery project. Hope you can knock over some fish with it. PC SS 5:1 gears with a 5+1 drag kit is going to make a tough package.
Mike, did Penn give you ma ring yet? ;D Little by little you're building an amazing collection of reels that no one should own, well except you of course.
Those belong in a museum.
Sal
Yes Mike I agree with Sal, thanks for edgamecating us, & keeping us entertained, great work man, cheers Don.
Waiting for the 5 to 1 upgrade. I tried the same thing in my 210 but ran into the pinion problem too. Mine works without the collar on the pinion but I'm afraid it may spread the pinion under load.
Sweet Mike! Its a cut down beauty. Ya just keep gettin better!
Nice work, .. Lou
Quote from: JRD on February 25, 2018, 05:45:05 PM
Waiting for the 5 to 1 upgrade.
I pulled a set of Pro Challenger 5:1 out of a jigmaster to try in the 210.
The PC gears on the left - they still have some grease and black dust from the drags;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_02_04_18_12_04_42_240911834.jpeg)
The PC main fits the gear cavity;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_02_04_18_12_05_07_24093661.jpeg)
The PC pinion didn't slide over the shoulder on the aluminium spool at first. I checked the measurements of the slot in the pinion and the ID of the ring and it was very close to the stock 13-140 pinion so I tried it on the stainless spool and it fit OK. I went back to the Al spool and pushed it a bit and it sort of clicked on and felt OK once it was on. Being a new spool I tried sanding all the sharp edges on the shaft shoulder and it eventually fit well - there must have been a slight burr or something.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_02_04_18_12_05_18_24094894.jpeg)
The PC gears seem work well - going into and out of gear without any problem. I spooled the reel manually with the PC gears and then did a low stress test winching a 2 liter (~4 lb) water bottle vertically over a rod. The gears held up fine but if I was going to do that sort of winching often I would go back to 4:1. Either way it needs a bigger handle, stainless yoke, sleeve and dogs if I'm going to use the PC gears to their potential;
(http://alantani.com/gallery/24/7995_02_04_18_12_05_47_240952421.jpeg)
Mike
Incredible work . . . Truly amazing !
Tight Lines !
Thank you for bringing that back up Dave. It's humbling.