Hi everyone,
I have a love/hate relationship with the new progears. The inside is beautiful and solid, and I have already put some decent surface iron yellows on my 42. Out of the box, however, the drag was sticky and the start up was noticeable. The pressure was definitely there, but I was hoping for something smoother, especially with carbon fiber drags already in as stock.
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27908030_10103987235075804_7897708773029191523_o.jpg?oh=f87ef66168a7edf19aa349b32a869c89&oe=5B0A96BB)
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27908108_10103987235420114_3029826716468194364_o.jpg?oh=4737ff692a3724df03ac48718236c310&oe=5B221073)
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/28070644_10103987235345264_383001020441385277_o.jpg?oh=f8fd7d3c88bb992c44ce2838dec7a075&oe=5B15CBF0)
Anyway, the v42 and v22 have a different stack configuration as previously seen in other threads. The reasoning reported was that the smaller, thicker stack had smoother performance. Check out the 2 different stacks.
This is the v42:
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27907603_10103987235325304_1793534724377098399_o.jpg?oh=976e1abca2a374387bed71314be0f713&oe=5B226500)
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27912697_10103987235320314_4642891521892765243_o.jpg?oh=df24d4ed0c519ced3c67bb49a1d16376&oe=5B18B389)
And the V22:
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27993632_10103987235070814_9164852489181149858_o.jpg?oh=26dfec75a87c3ed737a9806179390de0&oe=5B09E047)
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27983255_10103987235215524_5752840158358009726_o.jpg?oh=26a1e2ac54f1cf59aeca5250dec08476&oe=5AD9794F)
So I already replaced the fiber washer spacers with carbon fiber and the start up was dramatically reduced (yay)
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27912900_10103987235330294_6689374934889393943_o.jpg?oh=bd4220a820b0045c14ce2f141ce1ce0e&oe=5B2017E2)
But the performance I feel is not as good as it could be. One of the things I noticed is that the top of the stack for both drag systems has this combination washer, which resembles a belleville in the middle, and flat towards the end. Ive seen these with baitcasters where the drag washer is reduced in size to match the contact of the these top washers. For conventional reels though I normally see a full, flat, thick washer topped with a pressure distributing belleville washer, then the spacer. Here the flat and belleville is replaced with this combination washer.
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27907943_10103987235085784_3423958876640811766_o.jpg?oh=bf3623b1c1948e183fc1ddb456aea785&oe=5AD8D5D7)
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27993841_10103987235220514_4048760831563720851_o.jpg?oh=835331b23c67b3893785cb8a4f80c20b&oe=5B1D87DC)
The smaller thicker stack of the new configuration does have smoother performance than the more numerous thinner stack despite cleaning and greasing (with cals). I am wondering if the shape of the top washer distributes the pressure to the outside of the drag washers, instead of properly distributing them evenly throughout. Would this cause the drag to be less smooth? Especially with how thin the metal washers are within the stack, they probably don't have the same ability to distribute pressure the same way a thick washer would (which is why maybe the smaller, thicker stack has a smoother performance). If this is the case, I was wondering if replacing the top combo washer with a flat and belleville would improve performance?
Anyway, I'll continue to fish these either way, as they are awesome to cast and are mechanically solid. I was just poking around to see if anyone had any thoughts. Also as expected, the smaller thicker stack puts out less drag pressure than the more numerous thin stack.
Thanks
Nick
None of the pictures are showing
Usually a thin 5 stack will be smoother than a thicker 3 stack (assuming greased CF in both) when fished at a given drag level. The 5 stack will be capable of more drag if cranked down. But both have a limit.
The reels, I have converted, showed a marked increase in both drag power and smoothness so there must be something that PG are doing differently :-\
All of the drag stacks, I have worked on, had bellevilles or spring washers in them (or I fitted them). They wont necessarily make the drag smoother but will make it ramp up more gradually. The later reels were fitted with delrin washers where possible - which also helps the smoothness.
very nice post, nick! yes, i always prefer carbon fiber under the main gear. as for the last topmost keyed metal washer, yes, it is supposed to distribute pressure to the outside of the drag stack. not sure that it really makes that much difference, i would prefer to use the entire surface area, but the design is common enough.
i think once you get it back together, i think you will be much happier with the performance of the reel. too bad that both reels don't have a 5 stack drag system. well done!
As the Boss said those 'Top Hat' washers are fairly common. The fact that it is only applying pressure to the ouside part of the drag disk means very little in terms of performance. The inside part of a drag washer contributes very little in practice. If you are using cf under the main gear it only contributes a tiny amount of drag - a delrin washer would be smoother. If you are using the original fibre washer it can be improved by replacing it with cf or delrin. If space allows I fit a delrin washer on top of the stack as well ;)
I have been testing the new Pro Gears and these will def blow everything away. Stay tuned for an update.
Any update yet?
The new series, "Oceanus SD25" will be released within this coming 2-3 weeks. This size is between a Pro Gear Violator V22 and V32 size. Gears are cut differently and new and material used, for the main gear bronze C83600 is used and for the pinion gear bronze C90700 used. I have fished the new reel, but did not hook up to anything big yet. But from the initial use, much more smoother and less geary compared to the previous series.
nice reel! just curious. is randy still involved in this in any way? :-\
Randy is no longer involved and hasn't for a long time. Randy's older brother is now back at the helm and in charge of Pro Gear.
Quote from: alantani on July 11, 2018, 04:47:37 AM
nice reel! just curious. is randy still involved in this in any way? :-\
Wow nice. So are the Violators and Vengeance now obsolete?
New star drags out of Accurate, Avet, now Progears... my wallet welcomes the competition!
I'm not sure what to think about that bronze main and pinion but I guess bronze comes in different alloys just like steel.
You have to fish it to believe in it.
Quote from: MarkT on July 12, 2018, 09:39:08 PM
I'm not sure what to think about that bronze main and pinion but I guess bronze comes in different alloys just like steel.