Greetings I found this little spinning reel in a box of gear from my father in law. It's pretty grimy and if the little label is correct it hasn't seen a service since 1970. There's some corrosion on the bail arm and roller. Never fooled with a spinning reel and couldn't find much on here about it but from what I see it's very similar to a 308 but higher speed? Is there a tutorial that would be helpful? I have cf drag washers and the right lubes. It seems to work but everything is stiff like the grease has dried up. Looks like a nice little reel but everything is so small. Anything to watch out for when I open it? I saw a thread about the bearings coming apart and hoping to avoid that. Thanks sheridan
Like the red high speed sticker :)
Nice reel.
Fred will know all about it. I have a couple 408s, very nice little reels.
Opened up the side plate. Yikes!!! Other than the peanut butter pretty clean. Yup waiting for Fred sounds like the plan
The 408's are like you said, Sheridan —
High speed 1:5, dark blue instead of black like the 308's.
If you do not have a schematic, I can post one.
Remove the tiny keeper screw locking in the bearing assembly — do not unscrew the bearing assembly.
Clean the bearing assembly with lacquer thinner, dry it out, lube with TSI321 or CorrosionX.
When assembling the internals, just use and mix TSI321 with 1/3 grease like Yamaha Marine, SuperLube, or Penn. Light lube is all you need on these.
This reel has never been serviced or cracked open, IMO. Nice example, and a valuable reel.
Do not soak the body, sideplate, and rotor in anything except Dawn Dish soap & hot water — no simple green, it will dull the paint.
On the aluminum parts, chrome parts, brass parts, lacquer thinner is OK, and effective.
On all plastics like crank knob, spool parts, etc — only Dawn.
If there is anything you might need, just let me know.
Best,
Fred
A schematic would be helpful when you get a minute, I can print it at work tomorrow. I wiped it down with a soft cloth and corrosionX and some simichrome on the metal parts and it clean up nicely. I put a few drops of tsi321 on the spool shaft and cranked it for awhile and it's smoothed out . The only thing that isn't working right is the bail trip doesn't move to hold the bail open. I'll get it apart this weekend. Thanks a million Fred, Sheridan
Can't tell what your spool is but if it's the shallow spool you probably only have one drag washer. It's teflon and between the spool and spool insert (285). If it's a deep spool it should have two drag washers, the same teflon as the shallow (285) and a fiber washer under the drag knob & spring (283). The fiber one would be the only one you might want to change to CF. The teflon washers should probably stay as is if they are in good condition.
Thanks Tommy, it's the shallow spool and the teflon washer looks fine other than some dried grease on it, I'll re-use it. I think I'll try and get a deeper spool, Are all the 308/408 spools interchangeable? Thanks for the schematic, Sheridan
Here's a picture of the lever that holders the bail open it doesn't move into place to hold the bail open and won't go all the way into the slot in the bail wire. Does it look like it's installed correctly?
That projecting part on the top (in the pic.) of the bail trip mechanism(296) should be sticking into the round rotor nut(298) under spring pressure when you flip the bail open. If it's not moving the spring is locked down or the bail trip mechanism is.
Gfish
The spring appears to be installed correctly. As Greg indicated, check the coil under the screw head and make sure the wire isn't caught and creating a bind. All you have to do is loosen the screw a couple of turns, adjust the coil and tighten the screw back making sure the arm moves freely. While you have the screw loose check to make sure that little trip arm moves & pivots freely and not hitting the trip block when opening the bail. Open the bail down, not upwards, otherwise movement can be blocked by the stud/block.
Yes, all of that style 308/408 spools are interchangeable, including the white/light gray ones.
If you don't have a deep spool, Sheridan —
Don't buy one — I will send one along in the box when I return your Quick 275 in a few days.
It is good to have an extra spooled up spool — but personally, I prefer the shallow spool.
Holds 120 yards of 4# mono. For trout, bass, etc. — I never ever see the last 50 yards on a shallow spool — let alone the last 165 yards on a deep spool. Just a waste of line. Plus, I have removed and tossed away the line from hundreds of deep spool Mitchells — just to realize that the last 2/3rds of the line has never touched water.
Drags might be the only thing — but the factory drag on a shallow is perfectly adequate — plus either drag system can be upgraded to lightly greased CF, if desired.
I do like a smooth, fully adjustable drag range — this is one of the most overlooked aspects of these quality Microlite reels. The fun is working 1/2 to 10 pound fish with a fully adjustable drag —and learning how to control the fish capably with the rod — as well as the drag. The reel just retrieves line.
IMO.
Best,
Fred
Thanks for the help, still can't get that lever to work. Something isn't right, maybe the position of one of the spring ends? A picture of one that works would help when someone gets a minute. Thanks Sheridan
Quote from: Swami805 on February 23, 2018, 02:41:32 AM
Is there a tutorial that would be helpful?
This 308 tutorial might help. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDIlNDdyeNQ
Thanks Fetus, that's helpful, the spring looks right in mine,hmmm. Somehow it's not putting any pressure on the lever to move it when I open the bail.
Hi Sheridan —
Is the trip lever moving freely with your finger?
My remedy would be, if the lever is moving OK manually — remove the internal trip lever, spring, and screw.
Drop them all in lacquer thinner for 15 minutes — rinse, dry — then attach everything as pictured again — but this time, widen the spring legs a little to get more tension by bending slightly in the opposite direction.
You won't break anything, but if you do, I will send you a new spring.
Also check to make sure there are no burrs anywhere (including not being square where the trip lever rides on the bail return — and I always put (1/2) drop of oil under the trip lever where it attaches to the inside of the rotor, and (1/2) drop of oil under the head of the screw where it interacts with the spring.
Hopefully this will take care of the issue.
90% of spinning reel problems have to do with something on the exterior being bent, tweaked, or worn over the years — particularly bail assemblies. This sometimes results in an issue inside the rotor.
Let us know.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: swill88 on February 23, 2018, 03:24:05 AM
Like the red high speed sticker :)
Nice reel.
The "High Speed" emblem came on a lot of the handles for the "newer" higher retrieve ratio reels; some, instead, had a stylized picture of a fish--still red background.
Frank
Emphasizing what others have said; open up the ball bearing at your own risk; it will be a large bit of work to put back together unless you're really expert in doing it.
Frank
I have the lever working, it seems the spring had lost it's strength over time so I made a new one out of stainless wire. Now the bail doesn't snap all the way back so I'll see if I can make a new one. Thanks for your help. A bit more of a project than I thought. The outside cleaned up nicelt
Quote from: Swami805 on February 25, 2018, 02:08:36 AM
A bit more of a project than I thought.
You'll get it working correctly! That's what makes this hobby challenging, fun and interesting. :)
I have the 408 cleaned and back together, the bail is working but not as crisp as I think it should be but the rest is very smooth. not sure why but there is some corrosion on the external bail parts and the chrome has a little pitting. Thanks for all the help, my first real foray into a spinning reel.
I have pair of 308's and wanted a 408 but never did get one.
Glad you got it working Sheridan. I gotta get me a 408 someday...awesome little reels. 8)
Quote from: mo65 on August 15, 2018, 02:30:22 PM
I gotta get me a 408 someday...awesome little reels.
Well, I broke down and bought a 408, and brother, they ain't cheap! I got tired of waiting for a steal and gave $45 for this well used but still decent piece. Rather than start another thread, I decided to share my trials and tribulations right here and further the education all in one spot.
This first pic with the side plate removed reveals why she's so stiff.
Zoinks! Must be half a dozen greases in this thing. The anti-reverse dog isn't working...I assume it's probably all there...just fossilized. :D
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7859/46472903425_41d50fbb71_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dNDM6B)
Was all this sludge really in that tiny reel? Packing the gear case with heavy grease seems to be a very popular lubrication method. To each his own...I'm betting nothing is rusted inside anyway!
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7919/47335151172_3c340610b6_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2f7R2j5)
After the cleanup the gears look to be in great shape. All spacers, shims, and washers were still in place. A good indication the guys who packed in the goo didn't disassemble. If something doesn't fit quite right or feels weird on these old Mitchells, check a schematic. A missing thrust washer or shim can wreck these little guys' performance.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7809/46472903055_a9f43f666c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dNDLZe)
Things like the bail assembly and spool/drag washers have already been covered so let's take a closer look at that dreaded pinion bearing. This is the one you'll want to leave just as you see it below, not broken down any further. There's a nice wide gap for cleaning with compressed air or spray cleaner. I lubed with CorrosionX HD instead of grease for a more free feel.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4813/47335150902_bd8410b293_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2f7R2eq)
Looking at it from the back you can see a second row of balls and the brass nut holding it all together. Resist temptation to back off that nut! Those balls do a better disappearing act than a Penn dog spring. :'(
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7807/46472902855_77597015e2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dNDLVM)
The anti-reverse assembly must have just been weighed down. It works fine now, nice and snappy.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7832/47335150712_b15b60777b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2f7R2b9)
I elected to do a test run before lubing, just to make sure that all was well. I think I'll use Cal's purple on this one...or maybe Super Lube clear...flip a coin?
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4854/46472902595_62893be52a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dNDLRi)
I couldn't resist putting a performance handle knob on this reel. It feels fantastic, more grip than stock, and the red highlights match the stock red Mitchell highlights perfectly. This one will be fishing soft plastics for bass, so I loaded 'er with red braid. 8)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4877/47335150462_f77f819bc3_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2f7R26Q)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7853/46472902375_ea672f07a9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dNDLMv)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7836/47335150252_0242433ef3_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2f7R23d)
Nice reel, great job, Mike —
Best,
Fred
Well done, Mike. Looks like you could have made a peanut butter sandwich out of that lube! :D Pretty reel!
I may have you beat, though. :o More to come in another thread but below is a Zangi Delfino (Big Reel) I just opened up. :P I had to use a utility knife to pry the side plate off. Some of the grease is as hard as bees wax and some of it is gooey and stickier than PL400. ::) I've got my work cut out for me, that's for sure!. ;)
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 16, 2019, 02:38:09 AM
I've got my work cut out for me, that's for sure!. ;)
Yeah, but that's no hill for a mountain climber, Tommy — looking forward to seeing the finished masterpiece.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: foakes on March 16, 2019, 04:27:39 AM
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 16, 2019, 02:38:09 AM
I've got my work cut out for me, that's for sure!. ;)
Yeah, but that's no hill for a mountain climber, Tommy
Don't do it Tommy...don't be a hero...wait for backup!! :D
I checked the mail this morning and found this 408 that was the original topic of this thread. Sheridan graciously passed it on to me.
After much trial and error, I solved the problem with the bail assembly.
The pointed piece of the bail trip assembly that slides and slips into the circular groove on the bottom of the rotor was bent. Also the spring was pretty much shot. There was a spare spring that wouldn't work either. I happened to have an old fully functioning 308 and swapped parts and got the trip lever to engage properly. After several combinations of trying this spring and that trip lever, trying that spring and this trip lever, I determined both pieces were defective.
So I left the parts inside the 408 and should be able to locate another spring and trip lever for my old, beat up 308.
I haven't popped the side plate and looked inside yet, but servicing the remainder of the reel shouldn't take nearly as much time as the bail assembly repair.
Thanks again, Sheridan!
I was looking at pics of the main gear in Chester's 408 and it has spiral cut gears. My 408 has straight cut gears like a 308. I thought maybe some wise guy slapped 308 gears in my 408 as a cheap "fix and flip", but my 408 is 5:1 while my 308 is 4.5:1! My question is, did Mitchell make some early 408s with 5:1 straight cut gears before settling on spiral cut 5.5:1? These early Mitchell ads are making me believe so. The first ad is from '64 and shows my straight cut pinion gear. The second ad is from '67 and shows the spiral cut pinion like all consecutive ads also show. Oh no...my eyes are going crossed...:-\
Mike, you have a way of inspiring others to spend more money, every post like this makes me want something I don't have and to try something I've never tried! I've yet to open up a spinner, but this post has got me thinking about it... Great job bringing her back to life, and that knob and red colored braid helps knock her out of the park!
Here's mine that Sheridan sent. Yes, this one has the 5.5 to 1 ratio.
Looking good Chester, good for you I never opened it up, haha. Go catch a few with it!
Quote from: Darin Crofton on March 24, 2019, 01:44:57 PM
Mike, you have a way of inspiring others to spend more money, every post like this makes me want something I don't have and to try something I've never tried! I've yet to open up a spinner, but this post has got me thinking about it... Great job bringing her back to life, and that knob and red colored braid helps knock her out of the park!
Thanks Darin! If you'll notice, the majority of my projects are the "affordable approach" making them accessible to most anyone. I love the big buck custom parts as much as the next guy, but I only get to build that type investment occasionally. Most of my projects start as a great buy on a reel or a sweet custom part received as a gift. Working on spinners is no different than conventionals. Both have tiny parts and springs that love taking flight. Go ahead and dive into a spinner, and feel free to ask for assistance if needed, there are some of the best hanging around here! 8)
Thank you again, Mike, I appreciate the encouragement to dive in! Most of my spinners are newer, but have been looking for some older ones to work on, so when I find a good candidate I'll go for it! Will reach out if needed for sure ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Darin Crofton on March 24, 2019, 04:05:10 PM
Thank you again, Mike, I appreciate the encouragement to dive in! Most of my spinners are newer, but have been looking for some older ones to work on, so when I find a good candidate I'll go for it! Will reach out if needed for sure ;D ;D ;D
Many good candidates out there, Darin.
I learned spinning reel rebuilding on the Mitchell 300. It's of course a medium size reel, and parts aren't tucked away in remote corners and it's fairly easy to service. However, there are some shims that you have to be aware of, and often after rebuilding the reel is noisy. The Mitchell 308 and 408 are completely different animals than the 300, but easier to service. I also rebuilt a friend's 306 that was similar to the 308 to a larger scale.
The Shakespeare 2052 and 2062 are also good places to start. Not too complicated, biggest pain to me is removing the ball bearing to service. There is a sometimes troublesome snap ring that's unwilling to come out, but it isn't that difficult. Otherwise, these, and their bigger brothers, the 2071, 2081, and 2091 are a piece of cake.
The D-A-M Quick Finessa series, the 280, 285, 110, 220, 221, 330, 331, 440, and 550 are good candidates. Plenty of good help on here, especially by Fred. Their biggest pain is the rolled pin that retains the handle. They also have one of those awkward snap rings on the ball bearing. Good solid reels, some of my favorites.
Quote from: mo65 on March 24, 2019, 03:11:48 PM
Thanks Darin! If you'll notice, the majority of my projects are the "affordable approach" making them accessible to most anyone. I love the big buck custom parts as much as the next guy, but I only get to build that type investment occasionally. Most of my projects start as a great buy on a reel or a sweet custom part received as a gift. Working on spinners is no different than conventionals. Both have tiny parts and springs that love taking flight. Go ahead and dive into a spinner, and feel free to ask for assistance if needed, there are some of the best hanging around here! 8)
Amen! ;D
Quote from: Darin Crofton on March 24, 2019, 04:05:10 PM
Most of my spinners are newer, but have been looking for some older ones to work on, so when I find a good candidate I'll go for it!
Indeed...
do not make one of those newer models your maiden voyage! Start simple...like the ones Chester suggested. Having the schematic is a huge help. These guys around here are getting very good at googling up schematics. They have found ones that I looked everywhere for and came up empty handed.
Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll let you guys know when I find something... ;D
Quote from: mo65 on March 23, 2019, 11:27:24 PM
I was looking at pics of the main gear in Chester's 408 and it has spiral cut gears. My 408 has straight cut gears like a 308. I thought maybe some wise guy slapped 308 gears in my 408 as a cheap "fix and flip", but my 408 is 5:1 while my 308 is 4.5:1! My question is, did Mitchell make some early 408s with 5:1 straight cut gears before settling on spiral cut 5.5:1?
Nobody ever did answer this question...have I finally stumped the gurus?
Quote from: mo65 on July 31, 2019, 02:03:55 PM
Quote from: mo65 on March 23, 2019, 11:27:24 PM
I was looking at pics of the main gear in Chester's 408 and it has spiral cut gears. My 408 has straight cut gears like a 308. I thought maybe some wise guy slapped 308 gears in my 408 as a cheap "fix and flip", but my 408 is 5:1 while my 308 is 4.5:1! My question is, did Mitchell make some early 408s with 5:1 straight cut gears before settling on spiral cut 5.5:1?
Nobody ever did answer this question...have I finally stumped the gurus?
The 408 was introduced in 1963. The 1964 Garcia ads (B & W innards pics) show spiral cut gears.
Mike, I think you have a Frankenreel! :o
Quote from: Midway Tommy on July 31, 2019, 07:40:14 PM
The 408 was introduced in 1963. The 1964 Garcia ads (B & W innards pics) show spiral cut gears.
Mike, I think you have a Frankenreel! :o
Take a closer look at that '64 ad Tommy. The shot of the pinion shows a
straight cut...not spiral! I believe that is the same ad I posted previously when I discovered I had an anomaly. Also note the gear ratio on my 408 is 5:1...different than the 308's 4.5:1...so that rules out the frankenreel theory. The mystery continues...
Quote from: mo65 on July 31, 2019, 10:47:31 PM
Quote from: Midway Tommy on July 31, 2019, 07:40:14 PM
The 408 was introduced in 1963. The 1964 Garcia ads (B & W innards pics) show spiral cut gears.
Mike, I think you have a Frankenreel! :o
Take a closer look at that '64 ad Tommy. The shot of the pinion shows a straight cut...not spiral! I believe that is the same ad I posted previously when I discovered I had an anomaly. Also note the gear ratio on my 408 is 5:1...different than the 308's 4.5:1...so that rules out the frankenreel theory. The mystery continues...
I agree, but when enlarged, the main gear teeth appear set at an angle. Who knows what they used for advertising photos back in those days? ??? Back then most fishermen wouldn't have known the difference or even looked that close at the ads. :D
I'll have to say...it sure feels good to nip this one in the bud. I finally found the proof of a 5:1 geared 408. Was just surfing Mitchell parts on fleabay and there it was...an aluminum 408 main! I checked the part number against several schematics and quickly found the correct match. The seller is a trusted parts dealer I've used many times, so I'm confident what he has listed is correct.
I still can't believe this issue took so long to solve. I could care less if my 408 is 5:1 or 5.5:1. All that's important to me is it is correct! 8)
I admire your tenacity, Mike. Seems like there are a lot of anomalies in the earlier reel manufacturing processes and you just cracked this one. Well done!
Got inspired by you all to clean up an inherited Mitchell 408. Didn't have a clue if reel was intact since I never have used it and rotor was loosey-goosey.
Took only a few minutes to soak, brush and spray off the old gunk, and re-assemble. Didn't take apart the bail arm/mechanism just lubed it. I removed the bearing nut and oops almost lost a few, but quickly jiggled them back down, couple of drops of C-x and back together. Whew!
Looks & works much better now, and is ready to test. Not sure how strong that single drag washer is, but probably can handle a 1# trout. Amazingly simple deal!
Great work! The 408 is a fantastic trout reel...you'll love it. 8)
So where can one find replacement parts, specifically the bail spring and keeper screw?
thanks
Greetings, Bob, from Minnesota, and welcome to the site!
Parts are available from several sources; other AT'ers will hopefully post here and give you some specifics.
Frank
Welcome, Bob --
If you need parts for the Mitchell reels, including the little rare 408/308 -- I likely have those for you.
Best, Fred
can anyone post me a pic of AR side of the 408A main gear? No way the one I'm working is correct.
thanks !
John