Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Okuma Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: Rivverrat on March 18, 2018, 02:17:13 PM



Title: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 18, 2018, 02:17:13 PM
 Been wanting to do this tutorial for some time. I think I might be better prepared to do so now than I was prior. I have 3 of these reels but chose my 12N because it has some of the changes not seen in earlier versions of this reel. This will be a work in progress so be patient. Also click on pics to enlarge.      So lets get started


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 18, 2018, 02:36:30 PM
First remove the drag adjustment knob


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 18, 2018, 02:41:59 PM
Then  remove  the size 10 torx head side plate screw.

There is only one.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 18, 2018, 03:13:13 PM
Now with drive side of reel in strong hand & thumb on the gear box portion of side plate. While gripping the side in this manner twist the side plate.
Gear box away from you top part toward you. Twisting it to the left


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 18, 2018, 03:36:59 PM
Pull the spool out & we now have the three separate pieces & assemblies that make up the reel.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 18, 2018, 03:51:49 PM
OK now for the drag & spool shaft.

Start by removing the drag assembly retaining ring. Push down on the metal drag disk & hold while inserting a screw driver under wire retaining ring lifting it out


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 18, 2018, 04:24:03 PM
 Lifting drag assembly from spool be careful not to lose the very small springs in the spool that go beneath the tabs of the main fiber drag.

They hit the floor they are gone. These springs are only seen on later releases of this reel. The first ones did not have them.



Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 18, 2018, 04:34:47 PM
Looking close you can see the 4 small springs in their respective place in the spool. Click on pics to enlarge.

IMPORTANT:

See that bearing in the drag assembly. It mounts in the pinion drive /guard.
 Some here may dissagre & thats fine. I dont oil this bearing i grease this bearing. It has little to no effect on casting.
 Because of its close proximity to the carbon drag washers.
I don't want oil contaminating them & causing delamination or take away from a smooth drag.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 18, 2018, 04:47:38 PM
Let's separate the Dual Force Drag into it's six separate parts.

It's all held together with a spring wire retaining ring. Simple but a very workable way of holding an assembly of parts together.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 18, 2018, 05:03:44 PM
Here we have the seven not six parts making up the Dual Force Drag.

Left to right metal disk, wave washer, carbon fiber washer,
Metal washer, what Okuma calls the pinion guard I refer to it as pinion drive.
Below this is the bearing & round spring reatainer.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 08:49:27 AM
I'm back lets get this started. Since we are on the drag there is one peice that I need to mention while here. This being the small carbon washer that mounts to the spool it easily lifts out not glued like on some reels.
 
Remembering to be mindful of those four little springs.

While this small carbon washer does add a little bit to the final drag output of this reel I believe its main purpose is adding resistance for the cast control when used. It may also help a bit in relieving some of the load on the pinion bearing.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 09:06:11 AM
Here is a proper pic of all parts making up the drag assembly.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 09:26:15 AM
I think while we have it out & in hand it would be appropriate to bring up a very important part. This would be the pinion drive or as Okuma calls it pinion guard #607 on schematic.  Why is it important ?

If it's not perfect it can effect free spool & bring other issues.

 The pinion drive is where the power from your hand, while cranking the gears is transferred to the spool. It is made from aluminum & fits in the center of the anti reverse gear which is made from harder stainless. I've heard of no issues. However as time passes & hours of use begin to add up this is a part to keep an eye on.

It is my hope the following pics clearly show how the two pieces fit together. This is important as this needs to be remembered when reassembling the drive side to the frame & spool as we come to that later.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 09:43:17 AM
See the two shiny places, both left & right ? look like scratch marks.
This is what regular, good wear will look like from use from the pinion drive fitting into it's place in the anti reverse gear. 


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 10:26:00 AM
Now for the spool shaft. This is a part that for many brings frustration. Don't feel bad the reel techs at Okuma have felt the same. Going so far as making there own tool to deal with this issue at hand.

The belleville / spring  washers are assembled under load & they can be difficult to get back together.  If you are not up for dealing with this I suggest leaving the shaft assembled & lubing the right side spool bearing with a good oil. A drop on the shields on both sides will find its way inside.



Another option after disassembly is to install the belleville stack ((() vs the stock ()()  this will allow easy reassembly of the bearing & washer stack. Just so it's known this can this can leave you with cast control adjustment remaining only at the upper end & the spool bearings will more than likely need to be shimmed. But not in every case                  


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 11:46:39 AM
IMPORTANT: If you do not wish to separate the high low gears this is a good place to remove the handle. Doing it now allows you to turn the handle off using the anti reverse.

Doing  this will allow you pull the gears, shaft & shift parts in one assembly.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 11:48:00 AM
Now for the drive side. If this is your first time going in go slow, don't force or pry any thing.

Well start by removing the retaining plate & the two screws holding it in place. Okuma refers to it as Holded Plate. #201-1 on schematic.

This retaining plate was not used on earlier versions of the Andros 12.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 11:59:50 AM
Be careful not to lose the spacing washers that lay on the bottom of retaining plate.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 12:13:25 PM
Now lets remove the the dogs anti reverse gear & pinion. Sometimes this will come out in one unit. Lay the drive side, gear side down in your palm raising it & lightly tapping it into your palm to catch the parts as they fall out.
 
In this case they came out in one unit.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 12:19:36 PM
Lets separate the the dogs, anti reverse gear, also separating the pinion into it's two parts.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 01:09:42 PM
Let's move to the the shift assembly starting with the button. After removing retaining ring insert a hook through the side of button housing & force the button up.

Or just depress the button & push the shift release lever & catch the button as it pops out.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 01:20:25 PM
next remove the two screws that hold the handle nut retainer in place.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 01:44:41 PM
Lay shift release lever aside & remove handle nut lock screw remove handle nut. Its 14 mm with reversed threads.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 02:03:58 PM
Now there are probably different ways to go about removing the handle keeping in mind it is threaded. I'll show here how I go about it.

Flip the drive side over with gears facing up. We will remove the gears starting with the C clip then spacer.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 02:17:48 PM
the spacing washer that sits below C clip must be removed for easy gear removal. Or it can get caught in the groove for the C clip on gear shaft. Keeping the gears from dropping free.

OK flip the drive side plate over cupping the gears in your palm & push on the shift rod that is protruding from handle while reaching with fingers pull the gears free.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 02:27:56 PM
now pull the Drive / shift pin

Well also remove the handle. Be careful using the method I describe here remember you can remove the handle earlier. But I do this at times for different reasons.

I use a taped screw driver inserted into the slot we pulled the shift / drive pin from.

Hold reel as shown & rotate handle backwards. Do not attempt this with a bare screw driver or any other bare metal tool we don't want scratches in this slot


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 03:02:51 PM
Separate the shift assembly for proper cleaning. Keeping in mind the their order for reassembly.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 03:29:31 PM
`While we are here there are some bearings that may need attention. The first is the pinion bearing pointed to in the first pick. You can carefully remove the the shields & pack it by hand. Or use Alan's very handy bearing packer that allows greasing while leaving the shields in place. I will not be servicing this bearing having done it recently.

However there are two bearings for the gear & handle shaft that I will be servicing. 


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 03:35:43 PM
Here are the two shaft bearings. I will not be leaving them open. I will pack them by hand & replace the shields.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 04:26:19 PM
Cleaned repacked & put back in place.

One bearing was bad. Received new ones. Dont expect they are packed well with grease. These temp bearings can see a lot of force.

Take the time to remove the shields & give them a look.
New bearing needed grease as shown in pics.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 19, 2018, 05:25:49 PM
 Putting it all back together grease all threads while also coating all surfaces with a layer of grease. Don't forget to grease gears surface where make contact with one another. Washer goes on gear side of retaining ring.




Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 21, 2018, 03:41:36 PM
Reinstall gears

Start by inserting shaft with washer & Drive pin. You'll need to line up the hole in end of spring compression pin with the slot in shaft. Push compression pin from handle side when installing drive pin

Then the gears I separated them to show bottom & top after install. Hoping this will help if this is your first time.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 21, 2018, 03:59:24 PM
Low speed gear & spacing washer gear.

Install C clip & gears are installed


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 21, 2018, 04:13:54 PM
Flip drive side plate over & install handle.

Start with spacing washer the handle cap. Grease where shown.

Install handle hold gears while tightening handle.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 21, 2018, 04:23:41 PM
Install handle nut & lock screw.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 21, 2018, 04:30:44 PM
Shift Lever & Housing

Lock screw fits in space pointed out by screw driver

Until you get the hang of it this can be frustrating. It's a good idea to have at least one screw in the housing so once in place you can snug it down.

Get it right your first time ? Forget the stock market, quit your job & head straight for Vegas.

OK your feeling all smug. Lets test it to be sure all is right


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 21, 2018, 04:54:07 PM
Push down on the shift pin as shown.  The lever will come forward & rest on the ledge & smaller diameter end of pin.

So did you get it your first try ? Dont bother telling me I wont believe you. Besides why aren't you headed for Vegas.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 21, 2018, 05:01:13 PM
Shift button & retaining ring.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 21, 2018, 05:07:45 PM
Anti Reverse

The way of installing this as I describe works very well for me. I find I'm not fiddling about as much   as with other ways of doing it. So here it is.

Start by gathering anti reverse, gear dogs, & pinion set & assemble them.

Hold the assembly as shown in the center, by the pinion. Carefully lower into the bearing. You'll need to rock the gears to get the teeth of the pinion & gears to match up. Which is why we installed the handle prior.

When you feel gears match up keep it all of it above the the post & slide the dogs where they are directly over their posts & drop assembly into place.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 21, 2018, 05:30:11 PM
Retaining Plate

Don't forget the two washers on the bottom. Grease will help hold them in place.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 22, 2018, 12:48:29 PM
Main Frame

I'll start with the reel foot shown here. My advice is if you lack the means to to extract broken screws, don't wish to purchase  appropriate tap & die & maybe install helicoils leave the reel foot alone. Good chance you'll bust off a couple of the screws. The screw are not the same size. 2 short with 2 longer ones.

I'm waiting for parts from Okuma so I can replace one that broke. Thought I had some left.
 


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 22, 2018, 01:02:32 PM
Machined slot in frame need to be cleaned out well & covered with lite layer of grease.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 22, 2018, 01:27:37 PM
Apply a lite coat of grease to the entire inside of the frame.

Grease the drag washers the same as shown in all other tutorials here.

Installation of the spool is simply done in reverse order of the tear down.  

When installing the drive side to main frame  align the the single side plate screw hole with the two screws in reel foot as shown in pic & twist the gear box toward you top away from you after the drive is in place into place.

                                      


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 22, 2018, 01:35:15 PM
 There were some issues early on with different variations of the Andros 12. Over all I believe Okuma has rectified all prior issues. Okuma's customer service & parts availability is second to none.

This reel will cast as well as any other in its class. Will make more than 20 lbs. of fishable drag. Doing this with out the use of any special bearings. Okuma does not use an anti reverse bearing. Depending on the timing of the dual dog set up to keep back play at a reasonable level.

This reel will stand up well fished at  20 lbs. of drag. With only the slightest hint of resistance in the handle in the high speed versions.

Two things I don't really care for is the Andros reels are pretty much set up to fish at strike. The drag ramps up quickly usually giving 2 - 5 lb. increase at full.

I set my Andros 12's up this way. Full is set at 25lbs. well below the 33 lb. max. I then find out where 10 -15 lbs. is at & I mark that setting or make a mental note of where it is. 10 - 15 lbs. of drag  is generally a click or two of the lever past the first screw for the right side lug. As shown in pic below.

 This is basically where I set the lever when I fish the reel in my hands & not spiked in the sand or in rod holder.


I purchased my first reel more than 40 years ago. I was unhappy with most reels I purchased since then. With that said the Okuma Andros is the first reel I have purchased EVER that has exceeded my expectations... Jeff


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 22, 2018, 02:21:30 PM
For those interested here's pics of the removal / installation tool used by Okuma Tech's


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Donnyboat on March 22, 2018, 02:29:36 PM
Thanks Jeff, really great tutorial, good clear, detailing, cheers Don.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: steelfish on March 22, 2018, 02:48:58 PM
dang amigo Jeff, this is a great tutorial.
really awesome in detail and explanations



Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: STRIPER LOU on March 22, 2018, 02:49:34 PM
Excellent job Jeff. Now I have a good place to send mine when I'm too busy!

Seriously, easy to follow and well done.

..........Lou


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: cwillis85 on March 22, 2018, 03:18:12 PM
This is great, I was just thinking it was about time to service mine. This will definitely help.

Thanks


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 22, 2018, 03:21:41 PM
 Guys I greatly appreciate what's been said. To be completely honest I questioned my capacity to do this.

 When I look at some here who have done great tutorials such as John T. whos tutorials are the epitome of such. Others here who have great mechanically, inclined minds & like wise the skilled hands to make real what their minds are thinking. There are some truly gifted, talented people here... Jeff  


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Alto Mare on March 22, 2018, 03:29:18 PM
You did great Jeff! nice pics and details...good job!

Sal


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 24, 2018, 12:10:08 PM
OK, now that most here have seen this I would like to hear some positive criticism.

 Did I leave something out ? Do you like the reel ? Hate it?  Why did Okuma do that & not this ?  ETC...

No reel is perfect. Positive knowledgeable criticism is a very good thing... Jeff


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: mo65 on March 24, 2018, 02:36:24 PM
   That's great work Jeff. This reel is probably past my skill level, but I'd tear into it without fear using your tutorial. I can't believe you posted all the steps individually...must have taken a lot of time. Impressive determination brother! 8)


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on March 24, 2018, 02:54:49 PM
....This reel is probably past my skill level,     8)

Mike, based on some of your post I honestly find that hard to believe... Jeff


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: dreyna14 on June 21, 2018, 03:27:01 PM
First-time poster, here.

Glad this was posted!  I finished up an 8-day last weekend and had to shelve an Andros 12 due to the anti-reverse crapping out on me.  Had the reel for a year and a half, never fished even once.  I opened it up on the boat to find that the little sheet metal pieces on the anti-reverse pawls had been stretched out.  I had opened the reel up to give everything a light coating of grease before the trip.  Apparently this had made the AR gear stick to the pinion drive pulling it away when the reel was put into freespool.  Looking at the above tutorial showed me that there should be a retainer plate covering the AR pawls.  Checked the schematic and sure as s*** item 201-1 was missing from my reel.

Now, I will admit that it may very well have been my fault because the suction created by the grease I applied seems to have made the parts stick together when the spool moves but missing components?  It appears that the 5 and 16 sized do not have this retainer but all the 12's should (why?).  Hoping to give Okuma a call tomorrow.  Anyone else with an Andros 12 have this part missing?


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on June 22, 2018, 04:12:52 AM
The retaining / holder plate was an upgrade added later. Other makes of reels make use of this... Jeff

Oh.... welcome Here. Keep the questions coming.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on August 04, 2018, 04:40:44 PM
Being there are no perfect reels & neither am I. I will be adding to while also making what I believe are useful edits to this tutorial.

First up is the snap / retaining ring for the shift button. As this ring comes it sometimes can benefit from some proper filing or stoning as shown in the pics below.

First pic shows this retaining ring as it comes some times from the factory. If you look close at the ends in the second pic you will notice a difference in the angle. This can easily. be achieved with a stone or file.  This will help greatly in removing this ring when using a hook or pick etc. Other wise you can be left chasing this ring around in a circle.

If any one is having issue with a sticky shift lever, failure to go into gear or hold selected gear, bring it up & I'll do my best to walk you through possible fixes. Two of my reels have experienced this.

Overall this is a good 2 speed design. However it can be improved with some slight changes. My three 12's get used every week had one for around 3 years now.

 Things will always show up with use. I still believe overall for the price & performance there are no better lever drags  made at present... Jeff    


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Reel 224 on August 04, 2018, 06:18:46 PM
Supper great job on that tutorial! :)...............Joe


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on August 04, 2018, 06:23:37 PM
  Joe, thanks that is really appreciated... Jeff


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Wally15 on August 12, 2018, 06:36:05 AM
Great tutorial. Thanks Jeff. I just did what you said we shouldn't do, I broke off one of the foot screws. Fortunately, only the head broke off and I managed to remove the screw with a heat gun and Kleins without damaging the threads. Lots of corrosion on all 4 four screw threads, unusual for a 2 year old reel that's only been exposed to salt water 3 or 4 times.

Now I'm in need of a 09301425 screw. Unlike my Andros 5, all 4 foot screws are the same length.

Anybody got a loose screw?  :D
Mike Pate


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: alantani on August 12, 2018, 07:46:04 AM
mike, send me a pm with your address and i'll drop a set into the mail. 


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on August 12, 2018, 07:50:52 AM
Mike, I've got the screws at the house. Wont be back home until Tues. or Wen. You can also call Okuma parts @ 909-923-2828. They are of course not that much. It's good to keep extras on hand.

What you describe regarding corrosion can happen. However what your describing with it was only being on the threads leads me to believe it could be this..... the loctite / threadlock Okuma uses does in fact ressemble corrosion or look like corrosion. When reassembling cover threads in grease & be sure to put a layer where the reel foot makes contact with the frame & you will be good to go.  

                 You should get great service from this reel with very little worries... Jeff


                       Oh Thanks For That Alan... Jeff

 


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: alantani on August 12, 2018, 07:59:10 AM
actually, i was just thinking.  i have a bunch of metric screws from mcmaster for the andros 5.  are the screws for the reel seats of the andros 12 the same as the 5, or are they larger? 


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on August 12, 2018, 08:00:03 AM
They are different... Jeff


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on August 12, 2018, 08:01:55 AM
Whoa wait a minute some body needs to check me on this pretty busy right now... Jeff


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Wally15 on August 12, 2018, 09:44:09 AM
actually, i was just thinking.  i have a bunch of metric screws from mcmaster for the andros 5.  are the screws for the reel seats of the andros 12 the same as the 5, or are they larger? 
My Andros 5iia has part #'s 09301417 (short) and 09301218 (long) for the foot screws. My 12iia has part # 09301425 for all 4 screws. All have T10 heads.
GA Mike



Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: alantani on August 12, 2018, 11:30:30 AM
the screws i have are m3x10's.  your's are likely different.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on August 13, 2018, 12:28:24 AM
Might try calling  Okuma. I'm on the river might not be back home until Wen. now... Jeff


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Wally15 on August 21, 2018, 10:03:09 AM
Just ordered 4 reel foot screws from Okuma. Two for the Andros 12 and a long and a short for the 5. Very nice people, Kevin didn't even charge me for the screws. And free shipping from CA to GA.

Now THAT is customer service!
Mike


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: steelfish on August 21, 2018, 10:15:13 AM
Might try calling  Okuma. I'm on the river might not be back home until Wen. now... Jeff

good luck Jeff

post some some pics later


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on September 01, 2018, 12:44:38 PM
Just ordered 4 reel foot screws from Okuma. Two for the Andros 12 and a long and a short for the 5. Very nice people, Kevin didn't even charge me for the screws. And free shipping from CA to GA.

Now THAT is customer service!
Mike

        Yup, this was what I was hoping for & why I encouraged you to call them... Jeff


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Wally15 on September 11, 2018, 04:17:28 AM
Anybody got a spare ceramic ball (part #226) for the shift lever "clicker" they would be willing to send me? It's for my 5iia but is the same part # as on my 12iia.
My 5 started acting up at Cedros last week, couldn't fly line without my thumb on the spool because the initial drag tension was too high with lots of "slop" in the drag lever. Figured out last night that the ball was missing causing the sloppy drag lever.
I probably let this part "escape" when I was prepping the reel for Cedros. The compression spring is still present. I would have thought the ball would have some kind of retainer.
I almost hate to call Okuma. Several weeks ago they shipped me four foot screws for free. I don't mind paying for my own mistakes.
Mike


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on September 11, 2018, 05:15:34 AM
I'd be surprised if any body here had it. In fact I'd be impressed. I'd have to order it... Jeff


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Wally15 on September 12, 2018, 05:22:21 AM
Okuma (and Kevin) did it again. They're mailing me a couple of the ceramic balls free of charge. Great customer service.
Mike


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on September 12, 2018, 04:33:47 PM
Thats pretty much how they roll over there when it comes to small parts... Jeff


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Wally15 on September 12, 2018, 05:43:34 PM
Thats pretty much how they roll over there when it comes to small parts... Jeff
I noticed you never removed the shift lever in your excellent tutorial. Now I know why!  :)
Thanks for your help.
Mike


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on September 13, 2018, 09:00:30 AM
Quote from: Wally15 link=topic=24782.msg301019#msg301019
[/quote
I noticed you never removed the shift lever in your excellent tutorial. Now I know why!  :)
Thanks for your help.
Mike

Well ... thanks for mentoning this. It was not done intentionally. But  absentmindedly... Jeff

 Your detent ball should not have fallen out on its own.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: kutlingen on January 16, 2019, 12:56:18 PM
Thanks for a great tutorial. Came in handy for my teardown og a andros 5II A. I am having issues with the ger skipping in high under a load. I tryed fliping the square pin under the gears, as someone suggested that might be a solution. Dont know if it worked or not, as i havent tested with a load yet.
I did however run into the problem of assembling the axel with the bellwilles and whatnot. broke the E clip taking it out, as i didnt know what I was doing. Searching this thread, helped me a bunch, but damn that thing is a bugger to assemble, without the proper tool.
I came up with this. A simple wiper arm puller, available most anywhere. Worked great.



Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Darin Crofton on January 16, 2019, 01:07:50 PM
Awesome tutorial, Jeff, now I want one of these reels, thanks ;D


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on January 16, 2019, 03:00:16 PM
kutlingen, want to thank you for not only taking the time to post but most of all for sharing the use of the wiper tool. This site has become what it is because of people like your self taking the time to share. It's greatly appreciated.

Many people, including myself have wrestled with getting the spring washers back in place. They can for lack of better description & respecting the 12 year old rule.... be a bloody hemorrhoid. At least until one finds a way to deal with them.

   A friendly word of caution. When any kind of pressure is applied to the bearing we need to make sure the pressure is applied to the center. This being the part the shaft passes through. This can be  very easily achieved  by shimming with washers that are a smaller over all diameter than the bearing. If the wiper jaws of your tool cant reach the smaller washers you could at this point stack larger washers on top of the smaller ones.

  I hope this makes sense. Reason we want to be careful here is pressure applied to bearings in the wrong place will crush or crease them quickly ruining them.

    Oh !  almost forgot to mention, there has been issues in the past with the gears skipping on the Andros series of reels. If this continues I recommend you send it to Okuma. They will have your problem sorted out & your reel back to you promptly.

                               Thanks Again... Jeff


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on January 16, 2019, 03:07:15 PM
Awesome tutorial, Jeff, now I want one of these reels, thanks ;D

   Thanks, Darin. Working on your rods today. But I just now had to take a break. It's hard for me to sit long doing any thing. A quick bike ride usually fixes it... Jeff


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Darin Crofton on January 16, 2019, 03:27:43 PM
Awesome tutorial, Jeff, now I want one of these reels, thanks ;D
Can't wait... ;D


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: alantani on January 16, 2019, 03:39:21 PM

I came up with this. A simple wiper arm puller, available most anywhere. Worked great.


never thought of that.  thanks!!!!!


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: kutlingen on January 18, 2019, 03:02:32 PM
kutlingen, want to thank you for not only taking the time to post but most of all for sharing the use of the wiper tool. This site has become what it is because of people like your self taking the time to share. It's greatly appreciated.

Many people, including myself have wrestled with getting the spring washers back in place. They can for lack of better description & respecting the 12 year old rule.... be a bloody hemorrhoid. At least until one finds a way to deal with them.

   A friendly word of caution. When any kind of pressure is applied to the bearing we need to make sure the pressure is applied to the center. This being the part the shaft passes through. This can be  very easily achieved  by shimming with washers that are a smaller over all diameter than the bearing. If the wiper jaws of your tool cant reach the smaller washers you could at this point stack larger washers on top of the smaller ones.

  I hope this makes sense. Reason we want to be careful here is pressure applied to bearings in the wrong place will crush or crease them quickly ruining them

    Oh !  almost forgot to mention, there has been issues in the past with the gears skipping on the Andros series of reels. If this continues I recommend you send it to Okuma. They will have your problem sorted out & your reel back to you promptly.


                               Thanks Again... Jeff

You are more than welcome. Im only glad to be able to helpe someone out.
I dont think the puller will have any proplem reaching the inner ring of the bearing. I am however sure it would be impossible to fit the c clip if tha jaws of the puller were resting there. I know that one should be caucius to put sideload on these bearings, but as i see it, this is exactly what is done whwn you tighten the cast controle knob and therby compress the bellvilles?

I found out about the skipping of the gears the second time i used the reel. It hd been sitting on a shelfe for a while, so already 1,5 years old, so out of warrenty. I wrote to Okuma us, but they just forewarded my mail to the danish importer, and since the reel was bought in England, and according to english rules were out of warenty, they would not help. So I just bought a new one to bring with me to thailand next week, and hope to fix this one myself.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on January 19, 2019, 08:49:19 AM
kutlingen, want to thank you for not only taking the time to post but most of all for sharing the use of the wiper tool. This site has become what it is because of people like your self taking the time to share. It's greatly appreciated.

Many people, including myself have wrestled with getting the spring washers back in place. They can for lack of better description & respecting the 12 year old rule.... be a bloody hemorrhoid. At least until one finds a way to deal with them.

   A friendly word of caution. When any kind of pressure is applied to the bearing we need to make sure the pressure is applied to the center. This being the part the shaft passes through. This can be  very easily achieved  by shimming with washers that are a smaller over all diameter than the bearing. If the wiper jaws of your tool cant reach the smaller washers you could at this point stack larger washers on top of the smaller ones.

  I hope this makes sense. Reason we want to be careful here is pressure applied to bearings in the wrong place will crush or crease them quickly ruining them

    Oh !  almost forgot to mention, there has been issues in the past with the gears skipping on the Andros series of reels. If this continues I recommend you send it to Okuma. They will have your problem sorted out & your reel back to you promptly.


                               Thanks Again... Jeff

  but as i see it, this is exactly what is done when you tighten the cast control knob and thereby compress the bellevilles?

 

kutlingen, only partially true.  Because of the ogive / arch in the spring washers the center portion of the washers makes contacts the center of the bearing. Under extreme loading it's conceivable the washers could flatten or past flat & make contact else where.

Kutlingen, I've some good contacts with Okuma here in the U.S. I will contact them Tuesday & see what can be done. This might be sending your reel to the states. One thing I can tell you with 100% certainty, is they will want to fix your reel... Jeff

 
 


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: kutlingen on January 20, 2019, 02:45:14 AM
Hi jeff. I see what you mean about the bellvilles making contact on the inner race of the bearing, but as I see it, the bearing itself rests in the frame, only on the outer part? if im right, it is exactly how it sits in the wiper arm puller. Belvilles pushing on the inner race, and puller on the outer ?
About the skipping of the gears, its very kind of you to ask your contact at okuma to help me out. It is much apreciated. I dit however test the reel under load today. Not during fishing, but with a 10 lb weight on the line, dragging it over the lawn. I had a hard time pulling the weight in high gear, but there was no skipping at all, so it seems the trick about flipping the sqare pin in the main gear worked.
Im going to thailand for the next 3 weeks so will not be able to do a proper test fishing for a while. When i get home, i will test it for sure, and get back to you.
Thanks a million for helping me out on this one. Im spredding the word about this awsome page here in Denmark.


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on January 20, 2019, 10:14:51 AM
kutlingen, I have never exactly tested different bearings. The issue is the load applied to the center of bearing when in the reel is only coming from one side leaving the other side unsupported. So we have unequal support of the bearing which forces the inner workings of the bearing to one side causing friction which causes the binding or resistance we feel when turning the handle.

 I've always believed the Avet reels or most lever drags could benefit form a redesigned side plate.


 OH !  I just had another thought regarding the issue with your reel. What you very well could be experiencing is the dogs jumping a tooth on the anti reverse gear / ratchet. The little metal Ambassadeur style tabs / ears that grip the ratchet gear are easy to get out of adjustment.

Adjusted properly the dogs teeth should align centered & matching up with the teeth on the ratchet gear when at rest. Not laying or making contact with side plate or anything else. These tabs can be bent for adjustment. I wouldn't mess with this at this point . Not until your sure it's still not right. I hope you have it sorted... Jeff

    These arent easy reels for some to tackle. However you've done great so far... Jeff   


Title: Re: Okuma Andros 12N A Series Tutorial
Post by: Rivverrat on May 01, 2019, 05:11:42 PM
Thats pretty much how they roll over there when it comes to small parts... Jeff
I noticed you never removed the shift lever in your excellent tutorial. Now I know why!  :)
Thanks for your help.
Mike

Wally, I did in fact remove the shift lever. Starting on page 2 It's not something that every one should probably attempt. But it's very doable if one keeps at it. Not sure what I was thinking when I originally replied to your post... Jeff