Reel Repair by Alan Tani

General Maintenance Tips => General Questions and Trouble Shooting => Topic started by: Marcq on June 08, 2018, 07:55:20 PM

Title: Spectra?
Post by: Marcq on June 08, 2018, 07:55:20 PM
Sorry for my ignorance but  ::) 
I often hear the word Spectra, is it some kind of braid or a brand of braid? If it is, how does it compare to Power Pro

Thanks, Marc..
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: wailua boy on June 08, 2018, 08:13:18 PM
Hopefully someone can chime in more details but I think Spectra is a braid and if im not mistaken Powerpro is made from braided Spectra.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: MarkT on June 08, 2018, 08:14:45 PM
Spectra is what the braid is woven from.  Dyneema is very similar to Spectra and also used in braid.  PowerPro is a brand of braid.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Marcq on June 08, 2018, 08:26:15 PM
So Power Pro is spectra?

Marc..
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: philaroman on June 08, 2018, 08:26:58 PM
the material is PE (gel-spun polyethylene)...  originally, 2 US factories (Honeywell?) made Spectra & 1 (Dutch?) factory made Dyneema...  not sure who makes what now, or what the Chinese PE should be called
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Marcq on June 08, 2018, 08:35:52 PM
I get it

Thanks guys, Marc..
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: oc1 on June 09, 2018, 07:04:52 AM
Quote from: philaroman on June 08, 2018, 08:26:58 PM
not sure who makes what now, or what the Chinese PE should be called
It seems the Chinese usually call it dyneema.  I didn't know the Honeywell and Dutch background.  The cheap Chinese dyneema seems to hold up as well as Power Pro for me.  The dyes used to color moss green Power Pro wear off fairly quickly, but color on cheap Chinese dyneema wears off even quicker.  So quick that it comes off on your hands.
-steve
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Cor on June 09, 2018, 07:51:56 AM
I've always understood that Dyneema and Spectra are trade names for similar fibres that are used to make Fishing Braid from and both have similar characteristics.    I the early days I preferred Dynema as I thought that was the "original" fibre but these days I no longer care.

As to the dye......it's just a messy coating that wears off the line very quickly, same as the stuff they coat it with to give it some "body"

Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: sabaman1 on June 10, 2018, 12:37:26 AM
Power Pro is considered spectra. Owned by Shimano, spun by Honeywell Industries
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Rivverrat on June 10, 2018, 01:35:07 AM
I've not used any of the newer variations of Power Pro. The original stuff was crap... that's being nice about it... Jeff
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Marcq on June 10, 2018, 02:51:25 AM
Well!! You learn some everyday  8)

Marc..
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: whalebreath on June 10, 2018, 03:03:17 AM
Then there's Fireline

Then Gliss.....
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: philaroman on June 10, 2018, 02:35:00 PM
Quote from: Rivverrat on June 10, 2018, 01:35:07 AM
I've not used any of the newer variations of Power Pro. The original stuff was crap... that's being nice about it... Jeff

I beg to differ...

the true ORIGINAL PP from Innovative Textiles, in plain no-frills packaging, was EXCELLENT for the price (by far, better than most 4-carrier braids)...  then, long before the Shimano buy-out, the packaging got progressively fancier, while the braiding got progressively sloppier...  at some point, there was also allegedly a huge batch of counterfeit PP on fleaBay, that pulled apart like cotton-balls

same thing happened to Spiderwire: when it was made by Safariland, it was expensive & good; when Pure Fishing bought them out, they turned it into affordable crap

in short, PE is PE -- super-thin & super-strong, straight out of the box (unless it's defective/counterfeit)
how long it stays that way, is ALL ABOUT THE BRAIDING:
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Swami805 on June 10, 2018, 03:14:40 PM
I've used power-pro for years,works fine for me. For the heavier line I use Jerry Brown,that hollow is good stuff. The one I tried that I didn't like was suffix,has no body and seemed to want to knot up. That's just me for what it's worth.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Keta on June 10, 2018, 03:17:19 PM
Quote from: Rivverrat on June 10, 2018, 01:35:07 AM
I've not used any of the newer variations of Power Pro. The original stuff was crap... that's being nice about it... Jeff

I like and sell JB but I also use PP, give it another try.  I really like the Depth Hunter and Ace Hollow 40#.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: jurelometer on June 10, 2018, 06:08:09 PM
Quote from: philaroman on June 08, 2018, 08:26:58 PM
the material is PE (gel-spun polyethylene)...  originally, 2 US factories (Honeywell?) made Spectra & 1 (Dutch?) factory made Dyneema...  not sure who makes what now, or what the Chinese PE should be called

The base material is UHMWPE   (Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene).     This is similar to HDPE plastic that you may have seen (the better plastic cutting boards,  StarBoard, etc.),

Polyethylene is extremely solvent resistant,  but a Dutch company managed to figure out a process to turn the solid  stuff into a goo (gel) that could be stretched into long fibers (spun).  Unlike the original UHMWPE,  the molecules in the gel spun fiber are aligned in long chains.    Perfect for  making lines.

This product was trademarked Dyneema.   It was licensed  to Honeywell  in the USA,  which uses the Spectra trademark.  It was also licensed to  company in Japan as which uses the Dyneema trademark.  I have no idea where the actual factories are.  There are patents involved in the manufacturing process, I haven't seen any trademarks other than Dyneema or Spectra.  


I think the manufacturing proceeds is a bit like a pyramid.   There are only a few suppliers of the base fibers,  lots more manufacturers that weave the fibers into lines, and way too many consumer brands.  

A weaver  can use  different  variants of the base fibers,  and then  weave the fibers into  braid in a variety of ways to a variety of tolerances, depending on  customer requirements for performance and price. The braid can be dyed and coatings  can be applied,  but since nothing sticks to polyethylene,  these don't always last very long.  

The fibers are formed into strands often called carriers.  An "eight strand"   or "eight carrier" line is a braid of eight strands.   The pic count refers to how tightly the braid is woven.   A tighter braid will will stiffer, but in theory will have a bit less strength and abrasion resistance than a loose braid.  

A good or bad line for a given price point can be made from either Dyneema or Spectra fibers.

And if anyone has found nice stiff braid that casts half way decently on saltwater conventional reels,   I'm all ears.
 
-J
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Rivverrat on June 10, 2018, 06:48:36 PM
Quote from: philaroman on June 10, 2018, 02:35:00 PM
Quote from: Rivverrat on June 10, 2018, 01:35:07 AM
I've not used any of the newer variations of Power Pro. The original stuff was crap... that's being nice about it... Jeff

I beg to differ...

the true ORIGINAL PP from Innovative Textiles, in plain no-frills packaging, was EXCELLENT for the price (by far, better than most 4-carrier braids)...   

When compared to other 4 carrier  lines & considering price you may have a very valid point. However after trying it for a season while using offerings from others I chose to use it no more.

Like I said I've not used any of the newer PP braids. Since its easy to come by I will try it out at some point this year. Being able to walk into Walmart & get a decent braid is always a plus for me... Jeff
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Keta on June 10, 2018, 08:29:40 PM
Quote from: Rivverrat on June 10, 2018, 06:48:36 PMBeing able to walk into Walmart & get a decent braid is always a plus for me... Jeff

I send a txt to Jerry and the next day the Line One is in my mail box.  Give PP another chance.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Gobi King on June 11, 2018, 01:42:23 AM
Don't buy any chinese PE/Spectra/Whatever on ebay or amazon.

I bought a spool of the chinese pe/spectra on amazon to fly my kite, it was rated at 50lb. The line broke at 20 lb or less. They are junk from my experience.

The original powerpro rotted out and did not last more than a few season from what I read. The new stuff might have different formulation.

Keta sells jb and that is spectra, top shelf stuff. it will last for ever probably.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Tiddlerbasher on November 06, 2018, 12:23:11 PM
Old thread (I know ::)) but a suggestion for - J
Have you tried Berkley Fireline (I use the tracer variant when I can find it). It isn't soft and floppy and casts well conventional or spinner.
PP Hollow Ace is another line I like, particularly for splicing (very expensive in the UK :(). Some of the PRC PE16 braids (hollow) have improved over the last couple of years. I've been using it for fly line backing as well as conventionals/spinners main line. It's dirt cheap and so far no complaints :)

I bought the 'then revolutionary' original Power Pro donkeys years ago. It's still sitting on a couple of spinners. Never particularly liked it but it has never rotted. If it's actual spectra/dyneema/pe braid it can't rot - long term that may not be too good for the marine life :(
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Keta on November 06, 2018, 12:39:28 PM
I have some Berkley Fireline Tracer ordered and will be trying it.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Tiddlerbasher on November 06, 2018, 01:14:05 PM
I just checked the Berkley website - Fireline now maxes out at only 30lb - my last puchase I bought 40 and 65lb. I wonder why they stopped producing the heavier stuff :-\
Anybody know??
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Jim Fujitani on November 06, 2018, 03:11:02 PM
And where does Western Filament (Tuff-line) fit into all of this?  They have been producing spectra lines for years, in the US.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Keta on November 06, 2018, 03:19:29 PM
I have used 60# Tuf-Line for deep halibut fishing for years and it is a good product.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Gfish on November 06, 2018, 04:04:04 PM
Anyone got any opinions on the Diawa Samauri braid. I've got some 40lb. on a small spinner that's about 6 yrs. old. Still very supple castable and knotable stuff.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Three se7ens on November 07, 2018, 02:07:34 AM
Quote from: Gfish on November 06, 2018, 04:04:04 PM
Anyone got any opinions on the Diawa Samauri braid. I've got some 40lb. on a small spinner that's about 6 yrs. old. Still very supple castable and knotable stuff.

I use the Daiwa Saltiga boat braid almost exclusively in 55 lb and up weights.  In my experience, its extremely smooth, supple, and has a very favorable strength to diameter ratio in most sizes.  And the color holds up well. 

For 30 lb and below, I use powerpro super 8 slick.  I have caught many nice fish on the 15 lb, and its an important part of being able to cast light artificials a very long ways. 
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Cor on November 07, 2018, 05:32:51 AM
Quote from: jurelometer on June 10, 2018, 06:08:09 PM
Quote from: philaroman on June 08, 2018, 08:26:58 PM
the material is PE (gel-spun polyethylene)...  originally, 2 US factories (Honeywell?) made Spectra & 1 (Dutch?) factory made Dyneema...  not sure who makes what now, or what the Chinese PE should be called

The base material is UHMWPE   (Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene).     ...........................................

And if anyone has found nice stiff braid that casts half way decently on saltwater conventional reels,   I'm all ears.
 

-J
Nice detailed explanation!

I've always stated the stuff is not suitable to cast efficiently on conventional reels, but not all believe me.

But it can be made to work on a reel that is well set up and has a good cast control.     There are trade offs and I've found I can get away with it these days, but it does not give you distance benefit.

Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Donnyboat on November 07, 2018, 07:43:16 AM
I brought a 1,000 or 1200M roll of Suffix, about 2 years ago, when I got to the middle of it, there was about 25M of defected braid in it, never again. cheers Don. that was about 100Lbs.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Keta on November 07, 2018, 02:12:08 PM
Quote from: Cor on November 07, 2018, 05:32:51 AMNice detailed explanation!

I've always stated the stuff is not suitable to cast efficiently on conventional reels, but not all believe me.

But it can be made to work on a reel that is well set up and has a good cast control.     There are trade offs and I've found I can get away with it these days, but it does not give you distance benefit.


I'm casting well with both uncoated JB Line One (60#)  and coated Power Pro Depth Hunter (30# and 40#).  Backlashes can be bad but it does cast better than mono.  What you don't want to do is touch the spool when it's moving without having protection on your thumb.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Rivverrat on November 07, 2018, 02:18:28 PM
I've had no more issue casting braid than anything else. I dont touch it during a cast. Or as little as possible... Jeff
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Keta on November 07, 2018, 02:43:30 PM
Quote from: Rivverrat on November 07, 2018, 02:18:28 PM
I've had no more issue casting braid than anything else. I dont touch it during a cast. Or as little as possible... Jeff

Tape your thumb with Flex Wrap or Vet Wrap.    I also use L2L connections for my short topshots (usually 15'-20' but I have some made up as short as 5') so a knot hitting a guide does not cause over runs.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Rivverrat on November 07, 2018, 04:12:28 PM
Lee, I've always left enough exposed spool for my thumb to control a cast. Found I can get far better distance much easier this way than letting my thumb ride the braid.

But then I've been around very few people that use conventional gear all the time. So my way of doing this might be wrong.
It's just been trial & error for me... Jeff

Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Keta on November 07, 2018, 04:16:11 PM
Thumbing the spool works.  I use small reels and fill them to the top so no spool thumbing for me.  I have been playing in the pasture with a Trinidad 12 on a 7' rod and it throws a 60gr jig over 100 yards.  After I cleaned and lubed the spool bearings with TSI 301 I had a few minor backlashes but I overcame that problem.  The TN12 has 250' of 40# Power Pro Depth Hunter on top of 40# JB solid.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: SoCalAngler on November 07, 2018, 05:35:12 PM
On reels I cast often like surface iron, plasitcs with lead heads and popper setups. I run long topshots, longer than I can cast. Unless you use more mag or thumb breaking than what is needed you will never get a backlash. I never use mag breaking and to get maximum distance with just your thumb you need to be right on the edge of getting one during a cast. Casting this way no matter how good you are sooner of later you will get a backlash. I much rather pick out a backlash in mono than braid, especially if I get bit by a hard charging fish while I'm knuckle deep picking out one. That's the reason I use longer toppers on these setups.

Everyone has their own preference and that's cool, I'm just stating what works for me.

P.S. I should also state I don't use spinning reels.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Keta on November 07, 2018, 05:54:37 PM
Been there a few times but fortunately my fingers were not in a loop when the line got tight and then snapped.  I run 100' topshots on my trolling reels to prevent wind loops from cutting the tips off my rods when a fish hits, done that once too.  I am trying to use spinners.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Rivverrat on November 07, 2018, 06:16:24 PM
Ya I'd be the first to admit when I'm swinging for the fence with a cast it is in fact right on the edge of blowing up into backlash.
My backlashes now days pick out pretty quick & aren't near as bad or happen as often as they did years ago.

Like SoCal l generally use a topshot longer than my furthest cast. I do have two reals I fish with short leaders .

Use these in heavy current & when max distance is needed. No way I'm tossing any brand 60 mono the same distance I get with 80 braid... Jeff
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Swami805 on November 07, 2018, 09:26:52 PM
I don't use spinners either and use mono when for casting distance. I don't use any kind of cast control and get the occasional birdnest, I figure if I don't get a few I'm not trying hard enough. I thumb the line but thumbing the edge of the spool works too. Really helps to wet the line first. If I'm flylining with live bait I use braid with a very short top shot but that kind of casting is more a finesse thing so a backlash is minimal   Just grew up casting mono , be hard to change at this point
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Keta on November 07, 2018, 11:36:59 PM
I grew up using Dacron and mono is hard for me.  This summer I was forced to fish with all mono and I will never do that again.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: conchydong on November 08, 2018, 12:30:03 AM
The first spectra line that was sold in my area for offshore salt water fishing was called Spectron blackspot and made by Cortland. I still think it is some of the best spectra that I have ever used. It is no longer made.
I now use mostly JB or Tuffline for my applications. I miss the Spectron though.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Keta on November 08, 2018, 12:45:39 AM
Quote from: conchydong on November 08, 2018, 12:30:03 AM
The first spectra line that was sold in my area for offshore salt water fishing was called Spectron blackspot and made by Cortland. I still think it is some of the best spectra that I have ever used. It is no longer made.
I now use mostly JB or Tuffline for my applications. I miss the Spectron though.

I have some on a halibut reel, a 349H of course, that is close to 30 years old.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: philaroman on November 08, 2018, 05:17:43 AM
unfortunately, Cortland's out of the non-fly business
too bad -- they made some very solid mid-price stuff
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: oc1 on November 08, 2018, 07:44:55 AM
Quote from: Keta on November 07, 2018, 11:36:59 PM
I grew up using Dacron and mono is hard for me.  This summer I was forced to fish with all mono and I will never do that again.
I still say that Dacron has the best feel of any line, and mono the worst.  It's a mute point now though because I will always choose spectra for the smaller diameter and being able to use a smaller reel.
-steve
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Keta on November 08, 2018, 02:22:54 PM
I still use it for backing and my personal L2L topshots.
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: Jeri on November 09, 2018, 05:26:18 AM
Just to fill in some of the background to spectra/dyneema. DCM in Holland were the original developers/inventers of gel spun UHMWPE, they hold all the parent patents, thought there might be some held by their licensees in Japan and US. They still make the micro fibre, that a lot of franchised weaving factories use to make specific variations on braided dyneema.

Because originally the technology was only there for 3 strand weaving, it came out as a very flat profile, subsequently with more and more micro strands being used the profiles have become more rounded. Likewise, because of the totally inert nature of the micro fibre, it doesn't take additional coatings well, and there lies a problem, because for differing applications the core material being white there has been the need to introduce colour to the finished product. Early on various weavers tried applying a heat treatment to allow colourants to be added but they generally compromised the core strength of the material. A recent development from DCM is a genuine black coloured fibre, which while considerably more expensive that the original - it does overcome some of the colourant problems.

Another factor in differentiating different weaves of dyneema is down to the number of weaves per inch, and the tension of the weave. These both have a huge effect on the final performance of the differing products. Fortunately down here in southern Africa, we have a weaver that weaves the original micro fibre from DCM for our surf fishing needs, and it is an exceptionally limp product, and best suited to use with fixed spool reel (spinners), and has taken the local market by surprise, especially on price.

Hope that helps clear up some of the smoke and mirrors around braided spectra/dyneema.

Cheers from sunny Africa
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: exp2000 on November 09, 2018, 07:25:47 AM
Quote from: Jim Fujitani on November 06, 2018, 03:11:02 PM
And where does Western Filament (Tuff-line) fit into all of this?  They have been producing spectra lines for years, in the US.

Fins braid has earned a good longstanding reputation here in Australia.

But when I learned that local fishing legend; the late great Hal Harvey used Tuf-line XP on his own personal gear, that was all the recommendation I needed.

Not that I really get much time to go fishing lately, Tuf-Line is what I use on all my reels and I have been very satisfied wit it's characteristics and performance.

My only criticism is that as others have observed, like other braids it tends to shed its resin coating rather quickly.
~
Title: Re: Spectra?
Post by: oc1 on November 09, 2018, 07:37:38 AM
You can get UHMWPE blocks and sheet in every color and the color is stable.  I wonder if the strength is compromised in that material of if they can only do fiber extrusion from non-tinted stuff?
-steve