Reel Repair by Alan Tani

General Maintenance Tips => General Procedures => Topic started by: Acetylcholin99 on August 29, 2018, 04:33:46 PM

Title: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: Acetylcholin99 on August 29, 2018, 04:33:46 PM
Hi!
After a long time I'm back to the Forum :D.
I have bought a Jacoxe Bronson 25 C reel and wanted to clean it. But before I try sth out I like to ask you for advice. How would you clean the chrome frame. Which is in good condition but not shinny any more... and what would be the best way to clean the gear wheel and the other parts ( like in the photos).
I'm tiny bit surprised that there is no grease or oil on the gear wheel and the other moving parts. Is this normal for the reel? Or should i lube it and put grease on?

Thx

Michael
Title: Re: How to clean a Chrome Frame
Post by: foakes on August 29, 2018, 05:06:12 PM
Hi Michael —

Welcome home!

This is a great old historical reel with a Michigan heritage.  They made a lot of these, and in their day, they were not an inexpensive reel.

First, it is not chrome — it is nickel-silver with black Bakelite plates and likely a cork arbor.

I would start out with a 24 hour immersion of all metal parts in mineral spirits — to soften up any old gunk.

Then a rinse and a good brushing with lacquer thinner and a toothbrush.

Only this treatment on the metal parts — not the spool, plates, or crank.

After a good rinse and cleaning, I would likely see how well Nevr-Dull would finish it up patiently and to a good shine.  Lots of other options such as Simichrome, etc.

ND will work well on the plates also — after a good soak in Dawn dishwashing soap and hot water followed up with a toothbrush.

Lots of ways to clean and restore these to their glory days — just go slow and don't use too much chemical or power equipment at this point.  It is a simple, clever, and solidly built reel that will lend itself to be restored perfectly.

There are a couple of books on the ORCA site that explain these techniques in much greater detail, if you are interested.  But the above basic outline will get you 98% there.

Good luck, and show us some pics of the finished product!

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: oc1 on August 29, 2018, 07:26:28 PM
Michael, it's J.A. Coxe.  Glad you didn't say Jaloxe  :)  I think those have really attractive styling and are very well made.  I like the fact it has a spool axel instead of a spool shaft.  I'm not so fond of the free spool mechanism design.  As I recall, the main gear still rotates when in freespool and only the handle disengages.  Some guys swear by them and still fish with them all the time.

Here's some Joe Coxe history.  He was an interesting guy.
https://luresnreels.com/coxe.html (https://luresnreels.com/coxe.html)
-steve
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: Acetylcholin99 on August 29, 2018, 07:46:49 PM
 :o Sorry for that. I just read the name on the leather case  :-[

Thank you very much for the explanations and advice!

I am amazed about the simplicity of the reel mechanism. And it work great. But as I disassembled the reel I figured out that there is no oil or grease on the gear wheels. And I asked my self it is normal? OR should I put grease in it?
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: oc1 on August 29, 2018, 07:50:14 PM
I would worry about putting too much grease on the little clutch ears for fear they would get stuck.  Perhaps just oil on that part.

Grease won't help the levelwind either so if you're going to fish with it you may want to consider only oil and no grease throughout.
-steve
Title: Re: How to clean a Chrome Frame
Post by: Acetylcholin99 on August 29, 2018, 08:19:06 PM
Thank you very much Fred

I have some more questions


Quote from: foakes on August 29, 2018, 05:06:12 PM



I would start out with a 24 hour immersion of all metal parts in mineral spirits — to soften up any old gunk.

Then a rinse and a good brushing with lacquer thinner and a toothbrush.
Rinse in hot water?would you let it dry or use a paper towel to dry the parts?

Only this treatment on the metal parts — not the spool, plates, or crank.
would you recommend a treatment of the cork spool?

After a good rinse and cleaning, Rinse in warm water? Dry it or let it dry? I would likely see how well Nevr-Dull would finish it up patiently and to a good shine.  Lots of other options such as Simichrome, etc.

ND will work well on the plates also — after a good soak in Dawn dishwashing soap and hot water followed up with a toothbrush.


There are a couple of books on the ORCA site that explain these techniques in much greater detail, if you are interested.  But the above basic outline will get you 98% there.Which books would you recommend?

Good luck, and show us some pics of the finished product!

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: Acetylcholin99 on August 29, 2018, 08:27:25 PM
Thank you for this advise; I fished with the reel before I disasseble it and it worked fine without any grease and oil

Quote from: oc1 on August 29, 2018, 07:50:14 PM
I would worry about putting too much grease on the little clutch  ears ? which part is it? for fear they would get stuck.  Perhaps just oil on that part.

Grease won't help the levelwind either so if you're going to fish with it you may want to consider only oil and no grease throughout.
-steve
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: foakes on August 29, 2018, 08:49:07 PM
Typically I use an ultrasonic cleaner for most of my restores and servicing, since speed and effectiveness are important to me when a lot of reels are on the bench.

But that is an expense for another day, unless you already have a US cleaner.

* Just rinse and set on a paper towel — it will all be dry in 30 minutes

* Some parts like the rusted main gear, will need extra attention such as a Kroil bath and a wire wheel

* I just lightly sand the cork with 320 sandpaper

* This is the Bible for Reel Restorers — written by experts such as Dr. Elder, Dr. Larsen, and others.  This is an advanced course for those who want professional or museum quality results.

* Like Steve said, a good quality oil such as TSI321 or CorrosionX would do fine instead of grease

Best,

Fred

Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: Acetylcholin99 on August 29, 2018, 08:58:29 PM
Thank you!
Thankfully I have no rust on the reel.... Just for the future do you think that I could use a mix of ATF and Aceton instead of Kroil bath?

The book looks very interesting
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: foakes on August 29, 2018, 09:02:02 PM
Should work fine...

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: oc1 on August 30, 2018, 12:21:30 AM
I've had reels that cast better when dry but it will shorten their life.  The brass bushings on the spool, gears, gear shaft and clutch are the only things that really have to be oiled when using it in freshwater.  Completely coat it with something for storage.
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: Acetylcholin99 on September 01, 2018, 12:04:06 PM
I forgot one more thing. I have dissembled another reel and there was a lot of grease on different parts ( main gear, different other gear-wheels,  main shaft, . I removed the grease with a cloth but still there is more. What would be the best way to degrease it. A bath in mineral spirit? WD40?

Thx
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: foakes on September 01, 2018, 01:00:09 PM
Different folks on here use various methods — but something stronger than MS or WD40 needs to be used.

I use purple degreaser, and for tough caked on gunk — lacquer thinner.

Be careful since these are also harmful to you and others.  The purple will penetrate your skin, the LT will also, and is flammable besides.

Some use brake cleaners, carb cleaners, ATF fluids, etc..

Many of these could be harmful to certain metal alloys, as well as ruin plastic paint, and rubber.

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: Acetylcholin99 on September 01, 2018, 03:19:43 PM
SO would you recommend first to use e.g lacquer thinner ( I have one already) use on a toothpick or brush and clean the teeth of the gear wheel and afterwards put it in mineral spirit bath?
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: foakes on September 01, 2018, 05:20:32 PM
I just drop any metal unpainted parts in a small vat of LT — generally a 30 minute bath is all that is needed.

Then maybe some scrubbing with a toothbrush — and another 30 minute LT bath — rinse with fresh water💧, dry, lube, and assemble.

I do use an Ultrasonic Cleaner — which speeds the processes, and seems to do a more thorough job in all of the tiny hidden crevices.

You can do a dozen variations of this cleaning process, depending on your style and the reel.

This is just how I approach most of these jobs.

For me, about the only cleaners I use regularly, are plain white vinegar, simple green, purple degreaser, lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, and Dawn dish soap.  There are literally thousands of others — but this is all I need 99% of the time.

For polishing and burnishing, I use "0000" steel wool, Nevr-Dull, Simichrome, a Dremel, and a small benchtop stationary variable speed wheel motor with fine wire on one side, and a burnishing wheel on the other.

For lubes, I use Yamaha Marine grease, Cal's in beige and purple, CorrosionX, TSI321, and WRL191S.

The cleaner and smoother all of a reel's parts are on places we can't see — translates into a pleasure to fish, and crazy longevity — if we start with a quality vintage reel that has "good bones".

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: Acetylcholin99 on September 01, 2018, 07:02:07 PM
A last question before I start the cleaning.
On my third picture you see in the back the black plastic cover plates with some metal inlays which I can't remove. So I think the best think to clean them would be LT on a toothpick or a small gauze and rub them trying not to touch any plastic parts. Do you think that this is a good idea?

Unfortunately I don't have an Ultrasonic cleaner. I am very surprised that there are so many ways to clean the reels... no golden standard.
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: El Pescador on September 01, 2018, 07:09:33 PM
Fred,

For lubes, you mention WRL191S.

Please elaborate more, I have no idea what lube WRL191S  does??

In Plain English...  "Vas ist das????"

Thanks.

Wayne
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: Rivverrat on September 01, 2018, 07:55:55 PM
After some ones done elaborating for Wayne.  Could some one please do the same on this pic from Steve's post.   

To start there's many things wrong here or shouldn't be done that way or maybe my being from Kansas has me in a perpetual state of dismayed confusion.

Any how check that fellas rod out. It's all bent. Is it all bent like that because this is prior to angled handles for trolling ?  Also whats that dude on the left got on his face?  Did he have to rush fast to make the boat from his circus job ?  But remembered to bring his circus clown, prop rod ? But decided to let his buddy use it thinking it would keep him from catching any fish ?


   Oh & the clothes there wearing. No body dressed like that here in Kansas to go fishing... Jeff  :P
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: foakes on September 01, 2018, 08:01:13 PM
Synthetic oil, Wayne —

Oil---WRL 191S synthetic Non-Petroleum Industrial Lubricant.

According to the claims--it resists corrosion from H2O & saltwater, cleans, restores preserves, penetrates rust, penetrates existing lubricants, non water soluble, repels salt water, high adherence, will not become tacky or harden, withstands extreme temperatures (-110 to +380), revitalizes rubber, use on all metals, rubber, vinyl, plastic. I Get it from a railroad wholesale jobber--costs about $84.00 a gallon. Apply with a needle syringe or small brush.

I have used it for about 14 years now, and am on my 4th gallon in that time.  Will get another gallon before the end of the year.

It was only sold to in large quantities to large corporate users such as the railroads, military, crane companies, shipyards, and marine maintenance operations — until recently.  I knew a guy who helped me get some.

Clean and evacuate your bearings — then just drop them in this oil for 20 minutes while doing other reels — and they seem to bring back to smoothness all except for the roughest scored bearing assemblies.

I think I heard that the WRL stands for Wire Rope Lubricant — don't know about the 191, but the S stands for synthetic.

Very good stuff that is economical and extremely effective for salt or fresh water reel servicing and performance.

It also mixes well with Yamaha Marine to cut the thickness of the grease down.

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: El Pescador on September 01, 2018, 08:15:13 PM
Thanks Fred,

Is this a Jaymor Product???         From Fresno, CA????

            http://www.jaymors.com/about-jaymors/     

Wayne 
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: foakes on September 01, 2018, 08:23:09 PM
Quote from: El Pescador on September 01, 2018, 08:15:13 PM
Thanks Fred,

Is this a Jaymor Product???         From Fresno, CA????

            http://www.jaymors.com/about-jaymors/     

Wayne 

That's it, Wayne —

You can see a few of the large companies that use it, including NASA, here:

Our Product
Known for its highly effective lubricating properties, ease of use, being remarkably clean and environmental friendly, Jaymors 191S has outstanding longevity and out performs almost any well known lubricant on the market today per laboratory testing results.
Jaymor Enterprises is a major supplier to:

Norfolk Southern Railway
Amtrak
BNSF
Ace Hardware
Halliburton
Siemens
Amazon
Union Pacific Railroad
Canadian National Railways
Yosemite National Park
United States Postal Service
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE)
U.S. Bureau of Reclamation
Ferno-Washington Inc., The largest International manufacturer/supplier of medical equipment
Freeport-McMoran Inc., one of the largest copper mines in the world
United Parcel Services, as well as several major utility companies, state and logistic agencies throughout the United States.
Jaymor's synthetic lubricant 191s has now been approved by Amazon and has also been approved by Ace Hardware corporation and will soon be addressing many more of the big box stores. In March 2013 The Kennedy Space Center will conclude their testing on the 191s, which has already passed two out of their three tests.
Jaymor's has sold to Fortune 500 companies since 1993 and continues to do so today.


Best,

Fred
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: El Pescador on September 01, 2018, 08:45:18 PM
thanks Fred,

I'm going to pick up a refillable Pen  - a Gallon will last me 23 lifetimes ;D

Wayne
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: Acetylcholin99 on September 02, 2018, 02:49:17 PM
Fred!

What would be your suggestion to clean the metal parts which are firm  attached to the plastic cover plate and which I can't remove without damage the plastic parts or the metal parts?


Thx a lot for all your tips and suggestions!!
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: foakes on September 02, 2018, 03:17:59 PM
Soak the plates in Dawn dish soap and water for about 24 hours.

Then just attack the plates and metal pressed in pieces with a toothbrush while still wet with the soap.

You will get it clean!

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: Acetylcholin99 on September 02, 2018, 03:27:29 PM
Thank YOU so much!!!

I will attack it now!


Best,

MIchael
Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: Acetylcholin99 on September 15, 2018, 03:55:02 PM
So as promised here are the pics from my first cleaning and restoration....
All in all I'm very happy with the cleaning with the Bronson reel. You see the quality differences. I attached some pics.

But I had some setbacks too. I tried to clean a new ZEBCO 404. And somehow the 24h soak in DAWN attacked the alloy of some of the parts. I took a pic of the Center shaft sub assembly which has now a grayish discoloration which I can take off... The pic is not very good it was very late as I reassembled the reel but you can see the color difference ( Pic on the second post)

Title: Re: How to clean Jacoxe Bronson 25c reel
Post by: Acetylcholin99 on September 15, 2018, 04:07:12 PM
Here is the pic of the center shaft sub-assembly of the Zebco 404

Maybe I'm tiny bit biased but for the low quality reels like the modern Zebcos I would not soaked them for 24h hours in Dishwasher or to long in Vinegar ( This was my first and sad experience with a Zebco RT my sons first reel).
I did not see any problems with high quality reels like the Bronson reel. But I am totally aware that my experience is very very limited so far....

One little problem is still left with the Bronson reel shall I put tiny bit of oil at the gear wheels or not. They just work so perfect without oil....


I like to thank Fred and Steve for their tremendous help and their advice!!!