Alan your gear sleeve will not fit a stock bridge. I ruined 1 bridge already trying to get it to work. The hole is to high for the stock bridge.
Mike
Quote from: mikeysm on September 02, 2018, 02:36:23 PM
Alan your gear sleeve will not fit a stock bridge. I ruined 1 bridge already trying to get it to work. The hole is to high for the stock bridge.
Mike
Hi Mike,
What gear sleeve are we talking about? If there is problem, You can send it back to me which I will pay for the shipping back to me. I will replace your stock bridge.
If it is Jigmaster Sleeve, I have not had any complains on it for the 3 years. The first batch 113H sleeve had an issue, but it was taking care of right the way.
Please notes that OEM bridge tolerance is all over the map, it is possible that my sleeve might not fit those out of wrack tolerance OEM bridge.
Thanks,
--Alan
It's the jigmaster one and this is all of tje ones I bought. I had to modify the bridge shaft to make them work. The pin is to high for the stock bridge shaft. The hole location is wrong.
Mike
Quote from: mikeysm on September 02, 2018, 03:09:35 PM
It's the jigmaster one and this is all of tje ones I bought. I had to modify the bridge shaft to make them work. The pin is to high for the stock bridge shaft. The hole location is wrong.
Mike
Well, I just check the stock bridge I have with my sleeve and fitted fine on mine. Anyway, please send me your email address and your mail address, and I will send you a return label for those sleeves. I will refund you and send you a stock bridge to replace the one you broken.
Alan I already fixed two of them and they are working. Did they make two different bridges for this reel with the same number. Hold off alan I will get another bridge that hasn't been modified and we will see. I ordered all of them from the same place.
Mike
Quote from: mikeysm on September 02, 2018, 03:47:33 PM
Alan I already fixed two of them and they are working. Did they make two different bridges for this reel with the same number. Hold off alan I will get another bridge that hasn't been modified and we will see. I ordered all of them from the same place.
Mike
A jigmaster? Yes, there's bridges with a wide neck and some with the narrower neck. Can cause hole position problems.
I have a comparison pic somewhere..........
I'll edit when I find it
K here we go
(https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/technical/500new_vs_505old_bridgedesign.jpg)
have it in the tutorial page as an add on note
https://scottsbt.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203439809-Penn-500-Jigmaster-Rebuild#Bridge (https://scottsbt.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203439809-Penn-500-Jigmaster-Rebuild#Bridge)
You can file down one edge of the pin to slide it past where the narrower neck blocks the edge of the hole.
My problem is the pin will not go in at all. A lens sleeve the pin hole is high. Grinding the pin will not work.
Hello Mike, These parts and all of Alan's custom parts are made to my specs, so I'll put my 2 cents in.
Could you post a pic of the bridge, sleeve and pin in question? it might be you have a difective bridge, unless someone else has issues.
I just checked a few and the pin went in just fine, not one was off
(https://i.imgur.com/KnnAg3M.jpg)
the pin can only go in one way, if you look closer it is thicker on one side...one of the best pin design around
(https://i.imgur.com/sp5dYWk.jpg)
Sal
I have a new bridge coming from mystic we will see. I will post pictures.
Mike
Quote from: mikeysm on September 04, 2018, 08:19:04 PM
I have a new bridge coming from mystic we will see. I will post pictures.
Mike
That doesn't really help. What about the bridge in question, could you show or send me it? I'll pay for shipping costs.
I just like to see what's going on.
Thanks!
It's ruined from trying to fit the pin. I bought all of the bridges from mystic. Same problem every time. I had to file and sand until it fit. I used a die grinder this time and went to deep. When I get the new bridge I will send it to you. I'm sure it will be the same.
Mike
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 04, 2018, 08:21:33 PM
Quote from: mikeysm on September 04, 2018, 08:19:04 PM
I have a new bridge coming from mystic we will see. I will post pictures.
Mike
That doesn't really help. What about the bridge in question, could you show or send me it? I'll pay for shipping costs.
I just like to see what's going on.
Thanks!
Same here Sal, I haven't had a problem with Alan C. Sleeves and I upgraded at least 14 or so. I also would like to see what is going on.
Joe
I have a 49L bridge that the sleeve fits. I also have one of Alan T's sleeves which have two holes one for the old style and one for the new. Only one hole lines up and the other doesn't if it is a new style. If it is the old style either hole will work.
That was the reason for the two holes. Two different style of bridges. But that knowlege has been around for sometime now.
Mike
Just ran a test on one of the 3-500S in stock and the 98-60PRO and one edge of the pin would have to be ground a little, and the pin installed with the ground edge placed towards the center, in order to slide past the tiny bit of protrusion from the thicker neck. Peering into the hole, I can see the bit that's blocking it.
Now some of our inventory might be older and have the thinner neck on the shaft where that might not be an issue...but I don't think so. I think all our 3-500S were made in more recent years, so likely they are all the newer thicker necked shaft.
This is why the other stainless sleeves made by Alan Tani ended up having two holes in them. The Pro Challenger sleeves by Alan C. only have the one hole which works best on the older, skinnier necked shaft.
It's hard when there are variances like this by the original manufacturer...makes it difficult for the customizations being by others.
I think it's amazing how little these tolerance issues actually do pop up. I mean...sheesh...the Jigmaster has been made since 1959. How many times has the Mitchell 300 totally changed since then? Not many products out there can mix parts from different decades. There have been a few times I had to sub a bridge or sleeve on a Jiggy...sometimes parts just aren't going to play together. It's all part of customizing. 8)
I recieved the new bridge today. Here is a picture the pin only goes in a little ways.
I'm wondering if that specific gear sleeve is either a little thicker at the base (anti reverse gear end) or just drilled a little bit off. Since no one has had this problem......................Joe
As I said in a earlier post I had to fix two others prior to this one. I purchased all of the bridges from mystic. They all were the new style bridge shaft.
Mike
Quote from: mikeysm on September 07, 2018, 01:45:19 AM
As I said in a earlier post I had to fix two others prior to this one. I purchased all of the bridges from mystic. They all were the new style bridge shaft.
Mike
Mike: Please listen, I know your frustrated at the situation and I understand. I just was offering a thought about The Gear Sleeve being the part that is off, In that ones case. Not the bridge. I hope you can find a good solution to the problem. I think Sal and Alan will find and correct the problem.
Joe
Quote from: mikeysm on September 07, 2018, 12:24:24 AM
I recieved the new bridge today. Here is a picture the pin only goes in a little ways.
Mike, when you get a chance, do you mind giving me these 3 dimensions? these would be from the top of the bridge plate of course:
(https://i.imgur.com/dxP9Vni.png)
Thanks!
Sal
Quote from: mikeysm on September 07, 2018, 12:24:24 AM
I recieved the new bridge today. Here is a picture the pin only goes in a little ways.
Well, I guess this new bridge from Mystic does not work with my Jigmaster sleeve. Sorry for the problem, Would you mind send back all the sleeves you have brought from me, and I will refund your payment to you. Of course, I will send you a return label for shipping.
I will talk to Mo about this issue. You can always purchase Alan T's sleeve with two holes from Mo. That should solve your problem.
By the way, some people might say that this is not a good customer service because I just want to refund the money back. Please understand that I can't just take the old sleeve back and drill a second hole, and it does not work that way. I can have them make a second hole on a new production, and I have not heard any problem on this sleeve for the past 2.5 years. This is the first. It is just your luck :). First was my gear set and now sleeve.
I will get the measurments as soon as I can I have all the tools at work. As for the sleeves I modified two bridges already and installed. I only have this one left.
Listen to Mizmo. She has the solution and it isn't uncommon.
Thickness at the pin grove is .125
A. Top .185
B. Middle .100
C. Bottom .665
The problem is the thickness of the shaft at three pin hole. I turned the sleeve over and slid it down to see if the pin would go in and it did not. The shaft on the newer bridge is thicker at the pin and not squared of like the old one.
Thanks for checking!
I'm not questioning Mo, you or anyone else, I'm just showing what I have.
These are my measurements:
(https://i.imgur.com/Y42yxNc.png)
Could be the thickness of the post, but i'm not sure.
The .740" is the number that got me :-\.
Sal
Copies of some of my notes in PM's to Sal and Alan C. plus added thoughts...
We've had the issue previously..It's literally why some of Alan T's sleeves have two hole positions.
If there is only one hole and the hole isn't placed with the thicker necked bridge stud in mind...it protrudes into where the pin seats. It has to be perfectly placed.
So yeah..the problem is where the hole is, unfortunately at the moment it's the same issue. On older style with the skinnier neck it's a non-issue.
Penn has the hole in the right place to fit on either bridge stud on their brass sleeves.
If I recall when we worked it out for Alan T...it had to be lined up sort of centered on the line made be the flat edge of the sleeve where it starts to round out?
I'd have to go peer at a sleeve again to remember that bit.
Some of the machinists just didn't understand how precise the hole had to be placed. (I don't know if they had a sample bridge(s) to work with)
And we saw variation in where the hole was put whenever the machinist who made them was changed.
The 9/0 115 has the same problems also. I had to file the grove in the shaft to get Alan T's 9/0 gear sleeve to fit.
Mike
Here is what your going to need to get the sleeve to fit. I had to take quite a bit off so it was in and out of the drill until it fit. I takes forever by hand. You will need a drill with a good chuck and a file small enough to fit the grove.
Mike
Can you post a pic of the work you did on the shaft neck? Would love to see that for reference, too.
Great Mike! So would it be better to place it in a table vice and drill it out with a drill press. Or does it need relief also on the gear sleeve notch?
Joe
I chucked the tip of the bridge in the drill chuck. Then as it turned I square off the top and bottom and narrowed the shaft until it fit.
Mike
Great! So I would be able to put it in my lathe and with care not to get caught up in the bridge plate I would be able to cut the grove wider., sounds like a winner.
Joe
It looks like it was cut deeper not wider.
Deeper then. ;D............................Joe
The newer bridges are rounded and the older ones are squared off. The old one was probably done on a manual lathe and the newer one on a cnc lathe.
Mike
Quote from: mikeysm on September 08, 2018, 08:39:27 PM
The newer bridges are rounded and the older ones are squared off. The old one was probably done on a manual lathe and the newer one on a cnc lathe.
Mike
I did notice the rounded section earlier and it makes sense to me.
I don't think it was done on a manual lathe, I'm sure they dish out thousands at a time.
That section should be squared and not rounded. Maybe it is just one batch that was cut while the bit was on its last leg, or the machinist didn't program it as he should have...just guessing.
If you just knocked down the rounded part and it is working, the pin hole is in the right place.
Sal
I bought four of them in the last few years and they are all the same. The sleeve has no up and down play in it so the pin is riding high.
Mike
Quote from: mikeysm on September 09, 2018, 12:48:33 PM
I bought four of them in the last few years and they are all the same. The sleeve has no up and down play in it so the pin is riding high.
Mike
So on those newer bridges, it's not just the thickness of the neck, but the gap is too closed? In the past, Penn had complaints the gear sleeve moved too much, so that's possibly why this change was made, is my assumption.
The original style post bridges with the more open neck were probably manufactured for the last time in the mid to late 90's sometime, sold by Penn until they were gone and these new ones started to be made. Not sure when the new ones started, we didn't make note of the date the problem first cropped up.