Hi all,
I have fished with Penn 4/0 Senators almost exclusivley, the original black framed 113, the red special 113h and the 113hlw. I recently found out about people customizing and upgrading them. I am currently using a red framed Special Senator 113h with the post frame on my go to rod. I mostly bottom fish 30-150 feet for groupers and snappers. I recently bought a Accurate full frame to replace the post frame and am planning on Cortez side plates in the future as well as the graphite spool. For internal upgrades im thinking a 7+1 drag stack along with a double dog anti-reverse and a new gear sleeve. Im also thinking about stainless gears, i was looking at the 4.0:1 but was wondering if the 4.30:1 from the 113hn Baja will fit inside the 113h? In some areas where we fish ( Florida Middle Grounds) the barracuda are thick and its not uncommon to get just the head of the fish to the boat, i was hoping the fast retrieve would help with this.
Welcome wideopenoutdoors...
The 113HN Baja Special gear won't work in 113h.
There are some other gear choices and drag upgrades available. Sounds like you are on the right track! Enjoy and share pictures.
Steve
I know you said that you already bought an accuframe, but.....
if you bought a Baja Special (or US113N) you would get the aluminum frame, upgraded drags, stainless main gear, double dog bridge, and a nice handle without having to buy the upgrades. ???
unfortunately, the 113hn gears will not fit in the 113h. and welcome!!!!!
I would get the gear sleeve and drag kit and see how it goes. I LOVE the 4:1 gears, so that would be next. As much as Tom would appreciate you buying a set of plates, I'm confident that the factory plates will work just fine. If you want them for the bling, then you are in for a wild ride with the 113H, the sky is the limit; but, if you are trying to get the reel to where you need it there is a more systematic approach.
The 113HN, or any of the US Senators, are really nice reels, and if you need even more strength, Tom has a bridge that transforms the reel into a whole new beast.
Ron
Thanks guys! I kinda figured after looking at the 113hn gears that they wouldn't be able to work in the 113h. I will look into the Baja a second time, something about a narrow reel doesn't sit right. I also have several other reels that are going to be getting updates at some point, two 113hlw we use for trolling, and a couple 114h we have on Electra-mates for deep dropping.
As far as the 113h I'm working on i think the drag and the sleeve might be the next upgrade I do.
Might be a good idea to get the double dog bridge too, that will be the weak link with the upgraded drag. The gear sleeve is only as good as the dog holding it.
The Accurate frames came in the mail and man they are nice. I dont have a picture of them yet, but here is what i am working on currently, some 113h and 114h, swapping a post frame 113h to a half frame, and combining the best parts from 6 114h to make 3 good 114h.
Nice going! Not sure where you got your Accurate frames, But Randy Pauly here on the site, Vintage Offshore Tackle, is the man when it comes to frames for these conversions. He is outstanding to deal with, and if he tells you an item is a 9 cosmetically, you better break out a magnifier to find out why. He likely has the largest selection of Accurate and Tib frames available anywhere, plus Newell conversion kits.
John
The side plates came in from Cortez over the weekend! and wow they are nice! im looking at a 7+1 keyed drag stack along with a stainless gear sleeve and stainless gears, My question is will the double dogs and stainless bridge/saddles be necessary or can i reuse the original brass pieces ? Also in my lurking on this site i keep seeing "grouper special" reels but cant seem to figure out what makes them special, im hoping someone can explain this.
good idea to use SS dogs if you use SS sleeve; the brass will wear. SS yoke is good idea. they will work ok in short term but you will need to replace at some point- the dogs are cheap and you don't want to lose AR on a fish....
The Grouper Special, I believe, was first built by Sal, and is a bearing-model 113 (black plates) that he put all the goodies in available for that drive train- it has a lower gear but he used steel main, if not SS, and other steel or SS parts inside, carbonfibre drag upgrade, and I think a narrow frame with 66LB spool to narrow it, and a power handle. So, it resulted in a really strong, low geared winch for pulling grouper out of rocks. The 113 in stock configuration has a low (maybe lowest, or the LB68), power to weight ratio. With steel bits, narrowing for braid use, and carbon upgrade, Sal probably boosted the reel's capability 50% into the 65, maybe 80 lb, braided line realm.
I'm sure he'll be along directly with that link. A worthy enough endeavor, creatively, but I'd rather spend the money on a 113H with a power handle upgrade from Alan, Adam or Ted as you fancy.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=5320.msg42934#msg42934
It was George. search Grouper Special
Then Sal did narrow. http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9979.msg93535#msg93535
Thank you thorhammer!
Going to be assembling the reels today and i have a couple of questions.
First: to the new bearings need to be packed with grease or can i just put reel lube on them and go. second part of the question can the be hand packed or do i need the little tool?
Second question: i cant seem to figure out what the plastic bushing, the o-ring or the little plastic cap go to any help with that would be appreciated.
third question: i think i need a set of snap ring pliers to disassemble the clicker mechanism and then re-assemble it? maybe someone familair with toms work can help out.
the Cortez side plates and the hardware that came with them appears to be of excellent quality!
The nylon bushing goes on the eccentric in the right plate. The o ring goes on the left bearing cap. The nylon cap goes on the eccentric lever to keep it from leaving marks on the edge of the right plate. You can pack the bearings with gease or oil them. Grease will last much longer. Snap ring pliers will not work as the rings do not have holes for the pliers. I put a dab of grease on the e clip, put a finger on top of it & push it in with a small screwdriver while under my finger to keep it from going to never neverland. When you put the tongue on intall it with the rounded edges up & sharper edges down. Rudy
No grease in the bearings if you want good free spool, the lube of choose id tsi321 for the best free spool. Very light oil if you don't have that.
You shouldn't need any special tool for the clicker assembly, the C-clip just pops on. Be careful though,they can go flying off to a different dimension. I can push them on with my finger.
Post some pictures when you're done
Thanks guys, i have never seen an eccentric with a cap before!
It's to prevent the aluminum plate from wearing which is softer then the brass eccentric. By the way glue the little nylon cap on to the eccentric lever because they fall off in use.
Starting the tear down and re-assemble of the first reel. Is there anything in particular i should look at? im just replacing the drag set with a 5 stack and re-using everything else- the upgrades will come later. this reel started out as a dark maroon post frame clicker style 113h.
ok so i hit a snag, my red side plates two posts that held the eccentric spring, the new side plate doesnt have anything, am i missing something?
The tag end of the spring goes into the detent just below the spring in you last pic. I'm ata distillery event now, but I'll check back in this evening.
Cheers!
thanks, im currently struggling to remove a drag washer corroded to the inside of the main gear
Here's a photo of what Tom has explained.
Mike
im working on that part now, slowly realizing how wore out most of my reels and their components are :/
thanks for the picture, its worth a thousand words
Hey Wide Open you are new to this site. Now tell us whether it has reached or exceeded your expectations. BTW welcome. As you can see all you have to do is ask and the answers keep coming. 8) Dominick
Dominick- the site has exceeded my expectations.
Ah Dom, they call it ohana, OHANA, Nice timing Mike with your photo, Wideopen, your doing okay, we learn all the time, first thing I say when I get out of bed every morning ,yes I am going to learn something new today, good luck cheers Don.
update, after screaming at the anti-reverse dog until late in the evening i called it quits. this morning i got it first try, go figure. almost have the first reel completely assembled. Its been over two years since i took these reels apart and it showed. luckily i was about to remember how i did the anti reverse dog- too bad i couldn't remember last night.
finished one, opened the second and found it has a stainless pinion gear.
All 113h's have a stainless pinion gear. The early ones have a heat treated steel main gear. Later mains are all bronze.
cant figure out why the spool is not wanting to go in straight, i even tried another spool same thing, i have to force it over, this is with the accurate frame and the left hand side piece.
Is the clicker button retracted so the clicker gear on the spool can drop down even with it?
ill check in a few minutes
the clicker wheel is hitting where the clicker is mounted
Try moving the button on the outside of the "left-side plate" towards the outer circumference of said plate. This moves the pawl(arrow lookin thingie) outta the way of the click gear.
I've assembled several like that( pawl on topa the gear, insteada lined up) and haven't done any knowen permanent damage, but I can see where it might. I do have at least 2 Penns that came to me with loose click gears and maybe that's what happened to 'em.
Both are completed and ready to slay some gags after the hurricane passes!
Sweet!
Catchem Up!!!
Love those blue sideplates! Great job.
Hopefully the hurricane moves through and we can get out Sunday near Bayport and get them shallow!
How did you get the spool to seat in the left plate? What was the problem? By the way don't snug the left bearing up against the spool. The spool is supposed to have .0025 to .005"side to side play. Good luck fishing with those two reels. Rudy ps you never left your name.
So who's drag stack did you end up going with?
The reels look great!
i ended up ordering a 5 stack from mystic reels
i have a line on a pair of semi penn reels that im saving for.....
Possibly the top eared metal drag washer popped out of the gear grooves — either upon assembly or afterwards.
Pretty common and easy to correct issue, if this is it.
Best,
Fred
Foakes called it!
took the reel apart tonight and the eared washer was on top of the brass gear and the drag washer above the eared metal washer was destroyed! i pulled a wad of the carbon fiber out of the grease. i reassembled the reel and will test tomorrow!
Bestof luck fishing. a thing ive learnrd is to use a short piece of tubing and after assembling the bridge push the piece of tubing over the assembled stack down on the gearsleeve, if it fist snug good, otherwisa placea little pressure on the pc of tube sticking out the endplate hole. after the sideplate-bridge 4 screws are installed. Right the side plate and install the dragspacer tube and a belleville then the star fairly loosely.... This wat the earred washers can not move after your final inspection before tipping it over....
Overkill, Dumb, Butt it works for me. ;)
Update,
I didn't realize the one reel didn't have the washer under the main Gear, i tested the drag and am getting great results. However, i do have a problem with the Blue and silver reel.
Problem 1: it appears the main gear was made for a previous Senator and is shorter and some of the drag washers (5 stack) stick out of the gear, Is this A problem? I attached a photo of what im talking about.
Problem 2: the handle has some slop on the gear sleeve, im worried this will eventually lead to failure of the bronze.
Im considering going with all new stainless internals - something like prochallenger sells but nit sure if its necessary.
It looks like your drag stack is out of order. You should end up with a keyed washer on top. The order is CF,keyed,CF, eared,CF,keyed,CF, eared,CF,keyed. It's ok for the last CF & keyed washer to be above the main gear. The last eared washer can NOT be above the main gear. The slop in the handle means the gear sleeve or the handle is worn out. You have to replace either the gear sleeve or the handle or both. I would go with a ss gear sleeve first.
So I ended up ordering a Stainless Double Dog bridge and Gear Sleeve from Mystic Reel Parts. I also saw it said that with the gear sleeve i bought the flat spots are deeper and that i can run additional drag washers? is this correct? I ordered the 98-320At gear sleeve. i currently have the 5+1 on that reel (its the blue Side plated one).
Whatever Mystic tells you, or states on their website — is 100% accurate.
Most of the folks on the Alan Tani Site, know exactly what they are doing.
You can always count on years of experience, coupled with solid integrity.
This is true with most things in Life — not just reels.
Plus, the most reliable and quickest way we all learn anything — is by relying on trusted experts who share their knowledge, their skills, and their time.
This, paired with our own common sense, and a sense of who to trust — will get the job ✅ done.
Best,
Fred
i have a thin metal washer and a thin carbon fiber washer can go underneath. send a pm if you want set. they really don't make that much difference, though it is nice.
Alan- I sent you a PM.
I think the next step for these reels will be a custom handle!
Alright!
Not tryin to get you to spend more $, but when it comes to performance it's hard to beat a Pro Challenger HX gear set. These 'er stainless steel and have only keyed to the gear sleeve s.s. washers and keyed to the gear c-tex drag washers. I have 'em in Jigmasters and 1 set in a 113H. They ramp-up very slowly and are smooth as can be, especially those for the 113H.
Also, if you keep the 5+1, I've found that though not as smooth and adjustible as the HX, for me the final drag number is slightly higher than that of the HX, with the 5+1. Also, the top 2 washers(delrin & wavey bellevile for me) as well as the under-the-gear washer(delrin for me) are important to get right.
I played around with my Jiggies, testing #of turns to lockdown in 1/5 increments(point to point on the star), drag #'s at each increment and final drag numbers, after starting at 1lb. I used diffrent bridges, gear sleeves, and washer arrangements and mixed parts around as much as I could. All on a stock 500. For me the cone(convex?) belliville washers on top and the stock Penn under-the-gear washers inhibited performance... Highest drag number:the 5+1 with a 98-505 brass sleeve. Smoothest: the HX with ss 98-505. The HX only about 1lb. Short of the 5+1 max. drag. Most adjustibility: the HX by far.
However, I don't have a Motive Fabrication-"three sevens"(Adam)- "insert" drag kit to test, and I don't know if he ever made 'em for the Jigmasters. Opinions from anyone that knows for a 113H, or larger Senator?
Update:
These reels have preformed flawlessly.Both reels have caught numerous groupers including a couple past 34", several big mutton snappers, a 75# amberjack and many others without skipping a beat.
One of these finally kicked the bucket... we have fished them hard the past week. Last weekend they got a workout in the Dry Tortugas with some fairly big red groupers. Yesterday we went to the Florida Middle Grounds. After catching several decent sized red groupers my father hooked a large red snapper, as he was reeling it up the snapper was digging down to the bottom pretty hard. The Fenwick IGFA 30# class rod was nearly doubled over into the water. we could hear the reel popping and breaking. Then the spool started turning free and there was little drag. We managed to get the fish in the boat, but the reel was toast. It appeared the anti reverse dogs had malfunctioned as the drum was basically in freespool all the time. I took it apart today and discovered one dog was both snapped in half AND the post the dog was one was broke off the bridge and the pieces were scattered inside the reel while the second dog had come loose from the spring and the post was bent. This was a stainless bridge w/ integrated double dogs.... looks like 6/0 senators from now on...
Quote from: wideopenoutdoors on June 27, 2020, 04:25:11 PM
One of these finally kicked the bucket... we have fished them hard the past week. Last weekend they got a workout in the Dry Tortugas with some fairly big red groupers. Yesterday we went to the Florida Middle Grounds. After catching several decent sized red groupers my father hooked a large red snapper, as he was reeling it up the snapper was digging down to the bottom pretty hard. The Fenwick IGFA 30# class rod was nearly doubled over into the water. we could hear the reel popping and breaking. Then the spool started turning free and there was little drag. We managed to get the fish in the boat, but the reel was toast. It appeared the anti reverse dogs had malfunctioned as the drum was basically in freespool all the time. I took it apart today and discovered one dog was both snapped in half AND the post the dog was one was broke off the bridge and the pieces were scattered inside the reel while the second dog had come loose from the spring and the post was bent. This was a stainless bridge w/ integrated double dogs.... looks like 6/0 senators from now on...
Can you PM me with your number, please?
Sometimes an over abundance of grease can also cause issues with the dogs and springs
Wow, toasted.
After looking at it some more and looking back at how hard we fished this reel we think it was failing for a long time and then just finally let go after days of more abuse. I think I'm going to replace the bridge w/ dogs and keep going for now while I look at possibly going to a different style reel when i fish this hard.....
Multiple times we had groupers and snappers pull line off at full drag, not to mention the 6-8ft long sharks that have gotten hooked and stripped line, i think all this took its toll over the years.
I honestly think that for the type of fishing you are doing -- while the upgraded 113H is a fantastic reel -- that a 114H or 115 would be the ticket. (6/0 - 9/0).
Otherwise, this will just happen again -- or, you will be so close to the edge that either a slightly larger fish or a different set of conditions will cause another failure. This will always be in the back of your mind when the reel is seeing action.
That is one concern that you can control -- by choosing a different, and tougher reel.
Yes, the 113H will do the job -- 9 times out of 10 -- but #10 is the Big one that got away.
Sort of like pulling a loaded trailer with a turbocharger equipped 4 cylinder engine -- it will work -- but it will also wear out the engine much sooner because of the constant strain and demand to perform. Sometimes better to just go to a 6 or 8 cylinder -- and let the engine (reel) work at 2/3rd's of maximum -- instead of over maximum.
Just my thoughts based on your descriptions --
Best, Fred
Quote from: wideopenoutdoors on June 27, 2020, 08:25:13 PM
Multiple times we had groupers and snappers pull line off at full drag, not to mention the 6-8ft long sharks that have gotten hooked and stripped line.
Well, I sure wouldn't mind having that problem. Worth the price; whatever it may be.
-steve
I'm getting ready to get some 4/0h reels rebuilt for piers and candle boats,,,,,, :D but my 9/0 that uncle sal built is light weight with the parts here that's available and can handle anything,,,,, ;) like gothic groupers no problem,,,,,,, ;D
Quote from: oc1 on June 28, 2020, 03:17:41 AM
Quote from: wideopenoutdoors on June 27, 2020, 08:25:13 PM
Multiple times we had groupers and snappers pull line off at full drag, not to mention the 6-8ft long sharks that have gotten hooked and stripped line.
Well, I sure wouldn't mind having that problem. Worth the price; whatever it may be.
You're not wrong!!! Just disappointing when it breaks off in the rocks!
-steve
Quote from: Benni3 on June 28, 2020, 04:55:30 AM
I'm getting ready to get some 4/0h reels rebuilt for piers and candle boats,,,,,, :D but my 9/0 that uncle sal built is light weight with the parts here that's available and can handle anything,,,,, ;) like gothic groupers no problem,,,,,,, ;D
I'm to decide between converting a spare 114h to a 6/0 narrow, I have a 9/0 sitting on the shelf that's giving me looks, or maybe a international 50? Ill decide later. I'm still going to use these reels for shallow, 20-60ft, grouper fishing.
IMHO looks like the dogs were greased rather than oiled, the dogs on penn reels should be lightly oiled and never greased. As grease starts to solidify and change with water or saltwater in this case entering into reel causing the dogs to jam up and no longer operate smoothly. Once one dog goes there is a high likelyhood the second will go shortly after when they are greased. Good thing nobodys hand was injured. I learned this a long time ago, losing a very nice fish to this and a sore thumb. Hope this might help.
I see the point being made about the grease, however, we used PENN reel grease and the grease is no where near hard. I think it's how the dogs and posts were designed vs how they were designed factory combined with abuse over too that lead to their failure. We have abused "stock" 4/0 with NO maintenance and never broke a dog.
You need to PM Black Pearl like he asked you to.
Quote from: day0ne on June 28, 2020, 07:04:30 PM
You need to PM Black Pearl like he asked you to.
I called him
not to say grease caused the failure, but i'm in agreement about oiling the dog(s) vs. greasing. the grease will always be thicker, and may inhibit the dogs movement somewhat. light oil allows the dog to move more freely/quicker, and less likely to promote buildup of sludge. i also like to use a heavier spring in some cases where i can. i also agree about that being a good problem to have 8)
Quote from: vilters on June 29, 2020, 06:30:07 AM
not to say grease caused the failure, but i'm in agreement about oiling the dog(s) vs. greasing. the grease will always be thicker, and may inhibit the dogs movement somewhat. light oil allows the dog to move more freely/quicker, and less likely to promote buildup of sludge. i also like to use a heavier spring in some cases where i can. i also agree about that being a good problem to have 8)
I totally agree that the grease could potentially inhibit the movement of the dogs. However, I'm fairly confident that's not why it broke.
It appears that the pin that secures the dog to the bridge was sheered off. It has nothing to do about the grease or oil used. it was some strong pressure that is able to sheer that pin.
Quote from: Bryan Young on June 29, 2020, 05:08:50 PM
It appears that the pin that secures the dog to the bridge was sheered off. It has nothing to do about the grease or oil used. it was some strong pressure that is able to sheer that pin.
...but you must ask yourself why only one dog post failed when both are engaged simultaneously. Why is the other dog post unscathed ??
It looks like a 8 tooth gear sleve. I think that would give alternating dogs. 10 tooth gives simultanious dogs. I have a 113HLW set up with BP 8 tooth sleeve & double dog bridge that the dogs alternate. That puts all the strain on one dog at a time. It looks like the reel still operated on the dog that was left unbroken unless the broken parts jammed in the gears. Rudy
Quote from: Maxed Out on June 29, 2020, 05:59:50 PM
Quote from: Bryan Young on June 29, 2020, 05:08:50 PM
It appears that the pin that secures the dog to the bridge was sheered off. It has nothing to do about the grease or oil used. it was some strong pressure that is able to sheer that pin.
...but you must ask yourself why only one dog post failed when both are engaged simultaneously. Why is the other dog post unscathed ??
Quote from: Bryan Young on June 29, 2020, 05:08:50 PM
It appears that the pin that secures the dog to the bridge was sheered off. It has nothing to do about the grease or oil used. it was some strong pressure that is able to sheer that pin.
I have considered all of this. The other dog wasn't functional at the time, the spring had come off, as seen in the picture. I believe the broken dog failed because it was set up on a "single shear". I am in no way and engineer, except for working on projects around the house / property and small interest as a hobby, and I wanted to wait until I spoke to some friends that are engineer students. Any engineers feel free to correct me if I get this wrong.
In factory form the dog is set up in a "double shear" situation. The bridge screw runs through the dog and the dog pushes on the screw which is secured on two ends by the bridge and side plate - splitting the force between two spots. In the configuration I have, the dog is riding on a post that's only secured on one side (single shear) so all the load is concentrated at one point making it easier for the pin the dog rides on to shear off as we see here.
I think over time the single post was under a lot of stress and slowly giving up and when the snapper dug down hard the shock load broke the pin. We have had the factory dogs (double shear) under huge amounts of stress and no failure. My 4/0 is exactly the same as this and has yet to fail. I believe if the other dog on this one had been functional it probably wouldn't have broken....
Quote from: RowdyW on June 29, 2020, 06:57:24 PM
It looks like a 8 tooth gear sleve. I think that would give alternating dogs. 10 tooth gives simultanious dogs. I have a 113HLW set up with BP 8 tooth sleeve & double dog bridge that the dogs alternate. That puts all the strain on one dog at a time. It looks like the reel still operated on the dog that was left unbroken unless the broken parts jammed in the gears. Rudy
Correct, it is an 8 tooth sleeve.
On an additional note, an argument could be made that since the gear sleeve was cut all the way to the ratchet the clearance between the gear and the dog was really close and any movement would result in a collision and the turning of the handle would result in the breaking off, or shearing of the post holding the dog. I don't think this is applicable to this situation as I had a thin set of washers under the gear and the drag was LOCKED DOWN TIGHT which would eliminate the gear from rocking and catching the dog.
Perhaps a 10 tooth gear sleeve would solve your issues. Both dogs engaged simultaneously would be better suited for your type of fishing
That is what I'm thinking, although, I may just put it back together how it was and use a 6/0 or a international when fishing this hard.
Quote from: wideopenoutdoors on June 29, 2020, 07:17:19 PM
Quote from: RowdyW on June 29, 2020, 06:57:24 PM
It looks like a 8 tooth gear sleve. I think that would give alternating dogs. 10 tooth gives simultanious dogs. I have a 113HLW set up with BP 8 tooth sleeve & double dog bridge that the dogs alternate. That puts all the strain on one dog at a time. It looks like the reel still operated on the dog that was left unbroken unless the broken parts jammed in the gears. Rudy
Correct, it is an 8 tooth sleeve.
On an additional note, an argument could be made that since the gear sleeve was cut all the way to the ratchet the clearance between the gear and the dog was really close and any movement would result in a collision and the turning of the handle would result in the breaking off, or shearing of the post holding the dog. I don't think this is applicable to this situation as I had a thin set of washers under the gear and the drag was LOCKED DOWN TIGHT which would eliminate the gear from rocking and catching the dog.
I don't believe locking down on the drag keeps the gear immobile , since there are so many washers in the gear and one under it... it doesn't take much to cause problems.
Quote from: wideopenoutdoors on June 29, 2020, 07:28:34 PM
That is what I'm thinking, although, I may just put it back together how it was and use a 6/0 or a international when fishing this hard.
I wonder how to choose which fish can bite on which particular reel. You can't put a note on the bait saying "no fish over 25#'s"on this line". ::)
Quote from: RowdyW on June 29, 2020, 08:33:42 PM
Quote from: wideopenoutdoors on June 29, 2020, 07:28:34 PM
That is what I'm thinking, although, I may just put it back together how it was and use a 6/0 or a international when fishing this hard.
I wonder how to choose which fish can bite on which particular reel. You can't put a note on the bait saying "no fish over 25#'s"on this line". ::)
🤣😎 Valid point, I'll probably just hang up my rods and call it a day from now on 🤣 but in all honesty if I'm in an area where big ones hang out I'll out the 4/0 away. Or keep sending it and see what happens!
The new gear sleeve and bridge arrived yesterday. I ordered a 10 tooth sleeve so the dogs would act at the same time. We cleaned out the right hand side plate of excess old grease and installed everything with just a couple drops of penn reel lube on the dogs, and left the bearings and gears in penn reel grease. The drag stack was still in good shape so we just greased them Cals and assembled. The star wheel doesn't turn own as far as i remember however, it is still putting out good drag.It was my first time using the Cals, always believing it was not needed(my dad still thinks it is) and am surprised how smooth the drag is now. Three things however....
1) The star wheel is difficult to turn on the new sleeve.
2) Occasionally the drag will have a hard spot or just start getting "jumpy" where it is easy and then hard.....
3) Upon close inspection of the 5+1 stack that we took out of the reel I noticed this eared washers had the tabs bent up, presumably from something we did. But the only thing I can think of was it was at the bottom of the stack and we turned the wheel so far it was bottoming out against the end of the recesses in the gear?
Looks like it. Dude, you got alota torque strength in your hand if that's what happened. Maybe another washer below that eared one will fix it.
Quote from: RowdyW on June 29, 2020, 08:33:42 PM
Quote from: wideopenoutdoors on June 29, 2020, 07:28:34 PM
That is what I'm thinking, although, I may just put it back together how it was and use a 6/0 or a international when fishing this hard.
I wonder how to choose which fish can bite on which particular reel. You can't put a note on the bait saying "no fish over 25#'s"on this line". ::)
Hehe,,,, ;) I really like that one,,,,,,,,, ;D
Hi all, been busy working and helping to start a new company. over the last few years these reels have been fished hard with no failures until last saturday. A large red snapper hit my bait and broke the anti reverse. ill share pics tomorrow. I also have acquired an accurate conversions 6/0.... am still wanting a 4/0 magnum...
Ahhh yes, the elusive magnum 4/0. It's a 113h with 114h gears,drags, and sleeve. Might be easier to find a sasquatch. I think I have 1 hidden away and it cost me a kings ransom about 6 years ago ($425).
Quote from: Maxed Out on July 03, 2023, 11:59:22 PMAhhh yes, the elusive magnum 4/0. It's a 113h with 114h gears,drags, and sleeve. Might be easier to find a sasquatch. I think I have 1 hidden away and it cost me a kings ransom about 6 years ago ($425).
if you decide to sell it, let me know....
replacement pats have arrived, but between working in the lab 12+ hours each day i havent had time to work on it. hopefully this evening...
Quote from: wideopenoutdoors on July 15, 2023, 06:37:08 PMreplacement pats have arrived, but between working in the lab 12+ hours each day i havent had time to work on it. hopefully this evening...
i know the feeling..... :-[
I will be finishing the rebuild this weekend
Work is a four letter word but income=fishing
so it looks like the brass anti reverse dog ended up being damaged. After looking inside i opted to completely clean and reassemble the reel.
Alright, as you can see I started with a pile of parts, and a corroded frame. Learned my lesson on not washing off reels. Anyway, washed everything and started assembling the the new 7+1 drag stack first. All drag surfaces coated with cals. Then on to the left side plate bearing and clicker assembly. Followed by the eccentric, jack, yoke, and pinion gear. This is when I had a set back, I had to stop and order 2 new ss anti reverse dogs as well as the springs. Seems that no one has them in stock but I called smooth drag and ordered them this afternoon. Hopefully shipping from California to Florida will be quick. Once they arrive I'll finish the assembly.