Hello guys I'm Jon from the Philippines. I bought a torium 14hga (righty) and was able to tried it out once for catching trevs averaging 5-10lbs. The reel is nice and smooth but i noticed something when i'm fighting a fish the drag is weak than it should be. So when i came back from the trip i tried tying it to a scale the max drag i got is 8-9lbs but in the box the torium 14hga has 17 lbs. The 8-9lbs drag is to the point that i cant turn the handle anymore. And when i lessen it with just 3 clicks i only got 4-5 lbs drag which is really weird i dont know if i have a faulty reel or it is really normal like that. And it is really hard here in the phil. To find someone that can service reels and shimano doesnt have any service center here on philippines. Im thinking of opening the reel i have a little expirence servicing spinning reels but i have no experience on these type of reels, i hope someone can give me tips on what to do. Or a guide on how to take the torium 14hga apart with pics or a vid on the step by step procedure. I really appreciate any kind of help. Thanks in advance and sorry for my english
any chance that you have braid that is slipping on the spool?
I don't think so. I'm using braid but it is spooled nice and tight. Btw thanks for the reply
take a look anyway. that's the most common cause.
I just finished looking about the braid and the spool but i dont seem to se anything wrong. I'm really confused what to do next
ok, so you pulled on the line and the braid was clearly not slipping on the spool. if it is not, then likely you have the maximum amount of drag from this reel. to help any further, i'd have to pull it apart and look. unless someone else can help, i just don't have time to do a full tutorial on the reel.
Quote from: JonPHangler on October 01, 2018, 06:12:55 AM
Hello guys I'm Jon from the Philippines. I bought a torium 14hga (righty) and was able to tried it out once for catching trevs averaging 5-10lbs. The reel is nice and smooth but i noticed something when i'm fighting a fish the drag is weak than it should be. So when i came back from the trip i tried tying it to a scale the max drag i got is 8-9lbs but in the box the torium 14hga has 17 lbs. The 8-9lbs drag is to the point that i cant turn the handle anymore. And when i lessen it with just 3 clicks i only got 4-5 lbs drag which is really weird i dont know if i have a faulty reel or it is really normal like that. And it is really hard here in the phil. To find someone that can service reels and shimano doesnt have any service center here on philippines. Im thinking of opening the reel i have a little expirence servicing spinning reels but i have no experience on these type of reels, i hope someone can give me tips on what to do. Or a guide on how to take the torium 14hga apart with pics or a vid on the step by step procedure. I really appreciate any kind of help. Thanks in advance and sorry for my english
Re: blue text...
Button the star down for max drag and check the area I've put in a red rectangle to see if the lip of the star wheel (yellow dot) is bottoming out against the right side plate (blue dot). Bottoming out means no more adjustment.
If the handle begins to stiffen when max drag is set, this can be one culprit. If this suggestion is correct, the sequence of parts below the star wheel needs addressing as its likely a tolerance issue.
HTH, Steve
Hi Fish-aholic, thanks for the time to read and reply regarding my problem. But i think i have a different torium model. I have the black body torium 14hga. But I still tried the things you said. I tried bottoming down the drag and I checked there is still enough space and the handle is not stiff. Thanks again
Quote from: JonPHangler on October 04, 2018, 09:10:09 AM
Hi Fish-aholic, thanks for the time to read and reply regarding my problem. But i think i have a different torium model. I have the black body torium 14hga. But I still tried the things you said. I tried bottoming down the drag and I checked there is still enough space and the handle is not stiff. Thanks again
Yup, its a Trinidad 14A which I think the gear sleeve assembly would be similar (star wheel is not threaded to gear sleeve but keyed to an adjustable nut). I cannot find a schematic for your model reel on the www which makes things difficult. Would of thought they would be very similar like the prior gold trinidads and older toriums.
Like Alan said, hard to diagnose without reel in hand - or if you can take apart and post pictures as pictures speak a thousand words. :D
Hi
I know this thread is a few months old but thought I'd comment any way. I just got the 14 HG also and it has the same issue,9 or 10 lbs drag max. I think that Shimano just over rated the drag numbers since this seems to be in line with other star drags I have. If anyone found out different please post what you found out.
Bob
I have the old 14 with carbontex and the new 14 hg. 7.5lbs is only a few clicks away from bottoming out the star on the new one. No way it can hit 17lbs. Personally i dont need 17lbs on this reel but that is still deceptive at a minimum. Also the drag washers are a good bit smaller than on the model which i believe claimed 13 or 14lbs.
Chris
Bumping this thread to see if anyone has figured out a fix for the weak drags; or if the 14a drag specs are indeed grossly overstated? Seems really unlikely that any manufacturer would over-rate the drag spec by ~50%.
any chance that the line is moving and the spool is not? braid slipping on the spool is the most common cause. you bottom out the star and the handle still turns ok? another reason might be metal drag washers that are out of order. usually it's braid that is slipping.
Torium 14a schematic...
https://fishshop.shimano.com/collections/tor14hga
Quote from: Penn Bob on March 16, 2019, 03:22:54 PM
Hi
I know this thread is a few months old but thought I'd comment any way. I just got the 14 HG also and it has the same issue,9 or 10 lbs drag max. I think that Shimano just over rated the drag numbers since this seems to be in line with other star drags I have. If anyone found out different please post what you found out.
Bob
9# or 10# at the top of the spool will equal ~#15 at the bottom of the spool due to the change in diameter....
Guess which one they use to rate the reel? ;D
This is not entirely unfair as at the end of a long run your leader and knots need to know where they are at....
With a marking pen put a dot on the spool flange. Tighten the drag all the way and watch the dot you made while pulling drag to make sure the spool is turning and it is not slippage. You can wind the line on another reel and look for the tell-tale signs that the line has slipped. Alan has pictures of what to look for.
New carbon fiber drag washers will grab better than old washers that have become smooth.
I think you should be able to lock the drag down if you turn the star hard enough.
Based on the responses it doesn't seem a "fix" has been determined yet.
Similar to the Toriums, my Trini 14a maxes out at 12lbs. Seems to decline a bit to 10lbs after the drags warm up. Line is definitely not slipping on the spool. Cranked down the star to the point my fingers hurt and I can't move the star at all. At this point, the star isn't touching anything and there's still space between the star and the frame sideplate. The handle cranks freely.
I'll try add some more "bearing thrust washers" to see if anything changes. Otherwise, does Carbontex add any improvement over the stock Shimano Cross Carbon washers?
I don't know. From the schematic, it has four drag washers and they are reasonably large owing to the high speed main gear.
https://www.mikesreelrepair.com/content/schematics/Shimano_Torium_TOR14_Schematic.pdf (https://www.mikesreelrepair.com/content/schematics/Shimano_Torium_TOR14_Schematic.pdf)
It sure sounds like the star is bottoming out against something. Could be the clicker (no. 295) or the end of the threads on the drive shaft (sleeve) (no. 1123).
What are the chances that the star is designed to bottom out against something to limit the amount of drag and prevent gears from stripping?
I ll make a controversial contribution.
For shore based Yellowtail fishing I am a great fan of tightening my drag till it locks solid, that's probably above 20 lb. Very few of the modern star drag reels allow a drag to be tightened to that point.
So I started to experiment with dry drag washers again. Smoothdrag sold what they called "Smoothies" which are drag washers that you must use dry. I found those to be excellent, smooth and quickly lock up as well. Grinding the steel washers flat also seems to add a pound or so to drag output. I still use these washers and as far as I know they are still available.
I also tried using dry Carbontex, this also works acceptably well but does not seem as durable and the Smoothies were cheaper.
Perhaps something worth a try.
As oc1 stated, I think the star was bottoming out on something. My guess is the underside of the star against the stack?
In short, I added another Belleville washer (no. 92) to my Trini 14a. There are now a total of three Belleville's in the ()) configuration. Re-assembled the reel and cranked down the star to the point my fingers hurt and I can't move the star at all. Tested with two pulls on the spring scale...
1st pull: 16lbs
2nd pull: 15.5lbs
Backed off the drag and reset the star to what I felt was "reasonable tension" to my fingers. A straight pull on the spring scale showed a smidge over 9lbs. Quite satisfied with the results now. Comfortable 9lbs with 15+lbs max.
FWIW, I think this reel can produce the advertised 17lbs max drag. Just takes some work to get it there!
thanks for the follow up. it's nice to know that they can deliver on their promises.
If it is possible to place a 35 th, delrin washer, inside the star, it would make it easier to turn, now some pic of the fish thanks, cheers Don.
Quote from: Cor on July 17, 2021, 07:56:13 AM
I ll make a controversial contribution.
For shore based Yellowtail fishing I am a great fan of tightening my drag till it locks solid, that's probably above 20 lb. Very few of the modern star drag reels allow a drag to be tightened to that point.
So I started to experiment with dry drag washers again. Smoothdrag sold what they called "Smoothies" which are drag washers that you must use dry. I found those to be excellent, smooth and quickly lock up as well. Grinding the steel washers flat also seems to add a pound or so to drag output. I still use these washers and as far as I know they are still available.
I also tried using dry Carbontex, this also works acceptably well but does not seem as durable and the Smoothies were cheaper.
Perhaps something worth a try.
Have you considered just pinning the drag assembly together, if a locked-up reel is the goal? Or someone could presumably make a washer that was both keyed and eared to lock the sleeve to the drive gear?
Quote from: boon on July 26, 2021, 09:58:48 PM
Quote from: Cor on July 17, 2021, 07:56:13 AM
I ll make a controversial contribution.
For shore based Yellowtail fishing I am a great fan of tightening my drag till it locks solid, that's probably above 20 lb. Very few of the modern star drag reels allow a drag to be tightened to that point.
So I started to experiment with dry drag washers again. Smoothdrag sold what they called "Smoothies" which are drag washers that you must use dry. I found those to be excellent, smooth and quickly lock up as well. Grinding the steel washers flat also seems to add a pound or so to drag output. I still use these washers and as far as I know they are still available.
I also tried using dry Carbontex, this also works acceptably well but does not seem as durable and the Smoothies were cheaper.
Perhaps something worth a try.
Have you considered just pinning the drag assembly together, if a locked-up reel is the goal? Or someone could presumably make a washer that was both keyed and eared to lock the sleeve to the drive gear?
No that has never crossed my mind. Would be a too drastic a step to do that I guess as as there are situations where a drag would be required. Could hook a Tuna from shore or I would take a reel on a boat which is a totally different way of fishing and definitively requires a drag.
Many years back guys here used plyers to set their drags.
The reason for this is the foul conditions of the terrain we fish in with kelp being the main problem. If the Yellowtail gets his head around to pointing away from you and heads for the kelp you lose the fight in most cases. With a solid drag and strong 50lb line you can often keep him away from the structure.
Another issue which has become very relevant to me, is that we often fish from high ledges and a fish may well pull the angler off his feet, so as a precaution we do need to be able to adjust the drag.
I serviced one of these for a charter last winter. Three of the drag washers were much smaller than the metal washers. I replaced them with washers from a larger series Torium, don't recall which one. Probably a 16 size. you could check with Dawn at Smooth Drag, she might have some to fit as well. Coat them with Cal's grease, and you should have plenty of drag.
Regards,
Charlie