Assuming clean bearings, no oil, grease gunk etc., how much tsi 321 should I use on spool bearings. Such as a curado, Abu morrum,etc.? Never used any and wanting to give it a try. BTW, this is on freshwater reels.
I've had good results with a few drops and a spin. Heard of dropping them in a jar and soaking them too,never tried that but sounds good
Asuming open bearings that are clean just a few drops are needed. Rotate the bearing when you Apply to spread it around. If the sheilds are left on maybe then soaking it would be better I supppose? Honestly I just always remove the sheilds add a few drops then add corrsxion x to help spread it. Its fairly expensive no need to over do it.
A tip of what I do to keep some always handy and to minimize risk of contimantion I have a 500ml glass medicine dropper? That uses a plastic pinch mechism to fill the small applicator with a t max. Of 50ml (I never need to use that much at a time on a single bearing) anyways this helps apply small amounts to small areas neatly. Of course I taped over the droper and have it labeled for safety reasons
I'm building a new 4/0 113H XXN for Salmon trolling this year.
Since it will be build for smoothness, I'm going to try TS321 soaked bearings along
with the Cal's on the cf drags.
I remember seeing a member here with bearings soaking in lube.
Are the SS bearings dry that Dawn sells, or packed with grease?
I'm looking at the bearings/shields, and boy they are small.
-gary
I would use 301 instead of 321.
Joe
One drop per bearing. No more and no less. I learned that here on AT somewhere and it works. Too much oil will slow the spool down until the excess is thrown off.
-steve
I would contact smooth drag to see how they come... I run into alot of small bearings on spining reels I find using a very bight led head lamp a small fish hook and alitte pratice they will come right off. I have also usesd a dremal tool and pilers to turn a pair of teasers I had into a tool for this. Removing the sheilds you need to be alittlebit more carefull not to damage the bearing sometimes on very small bearings once I have the retaining rings removed I will use a light burst of compresseed air to avoid damaging the race to remove the sheilds. I usualy set up a seprate surface area to work on bearings this small I find evenly placing white paper towl the metal sheild is easy to spot with a headlamp looking over it again I use extereme caution. The small sheilds if coated in grease residue will stick to youre hands just about anything and get lost quite easily.
You can disreguard how I do it and find what works for you once you find the right size hook/tool and make sure the surface odlf the bearing is very clean with pratice it gets alot easyier.The sheilds end up being more troublesome then the retaining rings I find prying the sheild of with a hook requires alot of caution. Which is why I started using compressed air.
As far as 301 and 321 I prefer the latter it seems to last longer but for best possible freespool 301 is a slightly better choice.
As the gentlemen above mentioned less is more. I wish I could find the post I believe it was on this site that explained the physics of lubing a bearing there is a point of diminishing returns or rather increased friction with to much oil atleast on a theoretical level how much this increase in friction from having extra oil effects bearings for our applocations I couldnt tell you.
The best way I can think to explain it is you have the balls in the bearing. The force or load goes from outer race to ball to inner race. The ball is a circle and has little surface area contact with each of the two other com potents. Therefore from my understanding if you were not worried about protection and simply free spool the smallest even coating possible would yeild the best results additional oil would simply increase friction in the bearing... Someone please step in if I am incorrect but that is my understanding. I work with saltwater reels therefore protection is a huge Factor therefore adding extra oil or cuting it with corrosion X comes into play. with all spool contact points properly cleaned and the spool bearings done this way my only problem has ever been lack of proper thumb controll.
I hope that helps.
Quote from: Gman_WC on February 05, 2019, 01:41:54 AM
I'm building a new 4/0 113H XXN for Salmon trolling this year.
Since it will be build for smoothness, I'm going to try TS321 soaked bearings along
with the Cal's on the cf drags.
I remember seeing a member here with bearings soaking in lube.
Are the SS bearings dry that Dawn sells, or packed with grease?
I'm looking at the bearings/shields, and boy they are small.
-gary
For smoothness I prefer grease, but if you're concerned about freespool, oil would be a better choice.
I have been using Shimano Premium Grease and have been very happy with it. It is a little costly, but it lasts me a while.
Grease will protect your bearing better than oil would, but you would get away using oil, as long as you maintain a routine service.
Greased bearings don't need as frequent service as oiled bearings would.
Yamaha is a good choice as well, you could also thin it with oil...grease is thickened oil.
The Shimano Premium Grease feels good to me, so I use it straigh out of the container.
Smoothness will usually get felt under load, when reeling in.
Sal
Sal, is that the bicycle grease you are using or is there another Shimano grease labeled as premium?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Scott
TSI 321 is a little thick, I cut it with alcohol as suggested here and it works well to lube, it flows, just be careful and not spin the item too fast as lube will fly everywhere, ask how I know this :o
Quote from: conchydong on February 05, 2019, 01:07:13 PM
Sal, is that the bicycle grease you are using or is there another Shimano grease labeled as premium?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Scott
Some do describe it as such, but the one I have only shows a bicycle axle.
It is made in Germany.
Premium Grease is the same specification used in the best quality Shimano bearings.
Sal
Quote from: RandyMFoster on February 05, 2019, 11:13:15 AM
As far as 301 and 321 I prefer the latter it seems to last longer but for best possible freespool 301 is a slightly better choice. As the gentlemen above mentioned less is more. I wish I could find the post I believe it was on this site that explained the physics of lubing a bearing there is a point of diminishing returns or rather increased friction with to much oil at least on a theoretical level how much this increase in friction from having extra oil effects bearings for our applications I couldn't tell you.
A simple way to understand what is going o here is to consider what happens when you are driving along in your car and you hit a pool of flood water streaming across the road. Your vehicle slows down and does it fast! Previously your car tires were traveling through an air medium. However a fluid medium is much more dense requiring considerably more force in order to displace it from the path of a moving tire.
Using this analogy to understand bearing spin you can immediately understand why less oil is better when it comes to free-spin times.
TSI was designed as a dry film lubricant for computer hard drive platters. From my point of view, it's greatest value in fishing reel bearings is protecting bearings from rust so greatly extending their longevity. As a dry film lubricant, it will provide ultimate free-spool because it forms a dry bond on metal surfaces. However it has been the subject of comment that it is unforgiving when it comes to particulate contamination.
Using it as a wet oil may be an experimental practice although I recall that it is a synthetic ester formulation as are most synthetic oils. I use it as originally intended, soaking bearings in it for 10 to 15 minutes and allowing them to drain for about the same time. I then apply a single drop of synthetic oil. I am hoping that this approach provides the best combination of free-spool and long term protection and it seems to work pretty well so far.
~
I always cut TSI321 with IPA - in a ratio of approx. 1 part TSI to 4 parts IPA. I then dip the bearings in the mixture, fish 'em out and allow the IPA to evaporate. It provides a minimal oil coating - not too much and not too little - good freespool and protection.
All good info, as usual here on AT.
Sal, I've got a few tubs of this expensive Germen red grease that we had used in the past on old ATM's that we were no longer service. It was used on the white plastic gears. I'd like to send you some for R&D. It has a unique
smell and can' t identify it.
I've got your info, and will send it out tomorrow.
-gary
Do you have a MSDS on the red grease?
I use a drop of 321. I pass on the 301 because it's 321 with a solvent to dissolve whatever is left in the bearing. If 321 is too thick cut it with some IPA.
Joe, 301 is the one that contains solvent not 321. Rudy
321 is the oil - 301 is oil plus solvent.
Quote from: RowdyW on February 05, 2019, 07:04:37 PM
Joe, 301 is the one that contains solvent not 321. Rudy
Rudy; I always get confused between the 321 & 301 dam! I'm sorry guys :-[
Joe
PS; I removed that stupid post
Quote from: Keta on February 05, 2019, 06:10:43 PM
Do you have a MSDS on the red grease?
I'm not sure Lee. It's a red grease that's made in Germany. I've tried
to look up the name and numbers on the container. I'll send you a picture when I get home. It has a strong smell like Kroil.
-gary
Quote from: Reel 224 on February 05, 2019, 09:49:25 PM
Quote from: RowdyW on February 05, 2019, 07:04:37 PM
Joe, 301 is the one that contains solvent not 321. Rudy
Rudy; I always get confused between the 321 & 301 dam! I'm sorry guys :-[
Joe
PS; I removed that stupid post
Don't get bent out of shape Joe, we are all on a continual learning curve. This CRS is tough to get rid of. ;D ;D Rudy
Quote from: RowdyW on February 05, 2019, 11:40:46 PM
Quote from: Reel 224 on February 05, 2019, 09:49:25 PM
Quote from: RowdyW on February 05, 2019, 07:04:37 PM
Joe, 301 is the one that contains solvent not 321. Rudy
Rudy; I always get confused between the 321 & 301 dam! I'm sorry guys :-[
Joe
PS; I removed that stupid post
Don't get bent out of shape Joe, we are all on a continual learning curve. This CRS is tough to get rid of. ;D ;D Rudy
That's it. I concluded that the more I learn, I realize how much I really don't know.
Quote from: RowdyW on February 05, 2019, 11:40:46 PM
Quote from: Reel 224 on February 05, 2019, 09:49:25 PM
Quote from: RowdyW on February 05, 2019, 07:04:37 PM
Joe, 301 is the one that contains solvent not 321. Rudy
Rudy; I always get confused between the 321 & 301 dam! I'm sorry guys :-[
Joe
PS; I removed that stupid post
Don't get bent out of shape Joe, we are all on a continual learning curve. This CRS is tough to get rid of. ;D ;D Rudy
I know. ;D ;D
Joe
Quote from: RandyMFoster on February 05, 2019, 11:13:15 AM
Removing the sheilds you need to be alittlebit more carefull not to damage the bearing sometimes on very small bearings once I have the retaining rings removed I will use a light burst of compresseed air to avoid damaging the race to remove the sheilds.
I don't know this for a fact, but suspect it is the bearing cage that gets damaged first. If the cage is bent then it is going to pinch the ball. Personally, I don't try to remove shields unless the bearing is substandard after cleaning and there is nothing else to loose. If it is a good bearing then I don't mess with the shield. Just soak it in naphtha to get rid of the old oil and sludge. Spin and blow dry. Then add new oil.
-steve
Thank you oc you are correct. Also thank you exp 2000 for explaining that far better then I could.. I may have. Justmade it harder to understand. :-\ also wow I had no idea tsi 301 was just a solvent variation I thought it had different chemical properties.
My IPA has been dry hopped, is this ok? Just wondering?🤷♂️
Quote from: gstours on February 08, 2019, 04:44:51 PM
My IPA has been dry hopped, is this ok? Just wondering?🤷♂️
Hmm...Gary...I just had a vision of you cutting 321 with a cold beer...now there's a good video! ;D
If it's got hops drink it ;D
I guess I wasn't the only one that had to think twice (or 3 times) about actually applying IPA to my reel parts :D Started to wonder if going to DIPA would really improve my reel performance!
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on February 09, 2019, 01:08:54 AM
If it's got hops drink it ;D
Mommy, why is that scary man drinking a bunny? :o
sorry, that's the image I got ...and I have to live with meQuote from: Brewcrafter on February 09, 2019, 01:51:49 AM
I guess I wasn't the only one that had to think twice (or 3 times) about actually applying IPA to my reel parts :D Started to wonder if going to DIPA would really improve my reel performance!
sure, why not ...and stout makes reels stronger ;D ;D ;D