Hi All,
I intend on removing the old line on this 1st generation 12 that I recently obtained.
My thoughts were to leave it off, as this is a display reel only. I don't know too much about this type of line, all the vintage reels so far
that I have received that have had line on, has turned out to be in poor condition and rotten.
This line looks in superb condition, what has everyone else done in this circumstance ? put the line back on ? or stored the line separately ?
It may be just me, but I would prefer, if the spool is in great condition, to display it without.... or am I wrong in that line of thinking ?
Thanks in advance
Col
I know nothing about collecting old reels, but to me the line is part of its history and should remain there.
Is this proper fishing line of the time? Does not look right to me but sure someone will comment.
TRIED TO MAKE MY QUESTION A BIT CLEARER.
I have seen the "cord" used pre war, it would collect water and with every cast the guys got sprayed wet and some wore apron like gear to remain dry.
Hi Cor,
It's the line they used in 1937, mono wasn't available then, so this is what they fished with in the day.
I have heard them talk of Linen line and a lot of the Pre war ones I bought it still had it on, but was had it well and truly.
From what I've read, some take it off, clean it and put it back on, where others leave it off.
So I guess I was after their thoughts on it , what they do with it etc....
Col
You could send it to me !!! I will use it !! Lol ! John Taylor
Remove the line - clean and lube the reel - clean the line (washing machine?), dry it and put it back on the reel - It's part of the history.
The line appears to be braided Nylon Squidding line from the 60's/70's.
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on February 10, 2019, 11:16:33 AM
Remove the line - clean and lube the reel - clean the line (washing machine?), dry it and put it back on the reel - It's part of the history.
Thanks for that, I wanted to remove it to look underneath anyway, So, I'll do that first, transfer it onto something else
then go from there.
Quote from: George6308 on February 10, 2019, 11:20:35 AM
The line appears to be braided Nylon Squidding line from the 60's/70's.
I think its that Cuttyhunk linen line ? not nylon braid, and possibly original from the period....
I did the test on it as mentioned here and it's definately not nylon, it burns to an ash, it doesn't melt together as nylon braid would.
I'm picking another 12/0 would be suitable for storing it on, it's not packed on tight at all, it's quite loose on the spool, I'm picking there would
be a few yards of it any way. It looks really clean, has no smell, unlike the rotten stuff from previous reels. Anyway, I'll get it off and go from there.
Col
Col I would reel that line onto another 12/0 and inspect the spool. I would probably reel it back on, especially if the spool has any issues.
If i decided I didnt want it I would send it to 54Bullseye.
You just have to be careful not to get it in a tangled mess.
:) You could get a line dryer and store it on the dryer next to the reel ::)..
Really beautiful line there Col. Probably 36-thread but could be 54-thread. You can count the threads to confirm. Multiply thread count by three to get the approximate original pound test. Being a natural fiber, linen will not be as strong now as it was when new.
If the line was used it will have salts in it and will need to be put on a line dryer and washed. It looks brand new and unused but it's possible the line was reversed (top to bottom). You will know for sure when it is removed from the reel.
I'm not a collector but think having the original line adds a lot to the looks and interest of an old reel. The ORCA dogma is to remove old line and throw it away so it does not degrade the spool. They're all idiots. The looks of a 12/0 Senator has not changed to the untrained eye, but everyone will recognize that it is not modern line.
-steve
Thanks everyone for your comments, appreciated.
None of the old line I've had on my old reels so far has been in any state to preserve, this is the first that looks in good condition.
Quote from: oldmanjoe on February 10, 2019, 08:23:14 PM
:) You could get a line dryer and store it on the dryer next to the reel ::)..
Joe, I've not seen or heard of a "line dryer" before, I'll try and search for what they look like, thankyou.
Quote from: 1badf350 on February 10, 2019, 12:30:18 PM
Col I would reel that line onto another 12/0 and inspect the spool. I would probably reel it back on, especially if the spool has any issues.
If i decided I didn't want it I would send it to 54Bullseye.
You just have to be careful not to get it in a tangled mess.
Chris, that's my only 12/0 so far, BUT, I recon that's a good enough excuse to target another !!!!
I'm hoping that the spool is in as good a condition as the rest of the reel is, If so, I sort of like the idea, especially a big 12/0 of showing it off
Without line on it, Have any of yours come with old line Chris ? and what do you prefer ?
Quote from: oc1 on February 10, 2019, 08:48:37 PM
Really beautiful line there Col. Probably 36-thread but could be 54-thread. You can count the threads to confirm. Multiply thread count by three to get the approximate original pound test. Being a natural fiber, linen will not be as strong now as it was when new.
If the line was used it will have salts in it and will need to be put on a line dryer and washed. It looks brand new and unused but it's possible the line was reversed (top to bottom). You will know for sure when it is removed from the reel.
I'm not a collector but think having the original line adds a lot to the looks and interest of an old reel. The ORCA dogma is to remove old line and throw it away so it does not degrade the spool. They're all idiots. The looks of a 12/0 Senator has not changed to the untrained eye, but everyone will recognize that it is not modern line.
-steve
Hi Steve,
I've read your posts on old line with interest and quickly realised you had a lot of konowledge on the topic. This particular line, has three main "threads" so to speak, then if you rub it between your fingers and open up one of them, it's made up of what looks like at least a dozen tiny strands.
I take it that's what you mean by counting those tiny strands individually to calculate breaking strain ?.
This has sparked my interest now, I'll try and see if I can count them, I'll see if it shows up with a photo and post it.
Thanks guys
Very informative
Col
Ok, So I have a new Hobby, involving the dissection of old fishing line ;D
Steve, Just so I get a proper understanding, Below to the left is the original line, with three main Threads,
To the right, is one of those threads opened up, I counted 13 strands, you might be able to see with my photo, hopefully it came out
clear enough. So your saying, 13 x 3 =39, that being the pound strength the line was rated at ??
Hope I understood you properly, please excuse my ignorance if I got it wrong.
Col
Thirteen is a weird number Col. 39-thread would not be much more difficult to make, but the norm is 24-, 36- or 54-thread. Whatever, it looks like pristine line. After a single use it starts to get a bit fuzzy and stained.
39 threads X 3 pounds per thread = about 117 pound test when new. The rule of thumb used to be to put 24-thread line on a 9/0, 36-thread line on a 12/0 and 54-thread line on a 16/0. Harnell rods (and perhaps other brands) as well as the double built split bamboo and hardwood rods that preceeded them were often sold as 24-, 36- or 54-thread rods. The thread count referred to the line so you could match the rod flex to the line strength and, therefore, match the rod flex to the maximum drag setting. They probably used something like the modern formula that maximum drag is 25 or 30% of the line strength.
-steve
Thanks Steve, At least I got the theory right on it.......
This was one of Rays reels that I managed to purchase, I found that he had posted a photo and description on it in the Penn senator " from the beginning"
Thread, after I purchased it. I'm useless on a computer, otherwise I would copy his post here.
Basically it is how he found it, He did open it up and in his opinion had very little use if any, which could explain the great condition of the line.
So perhaps it has never seen water.
I do not know whether he removed the line to inspect the spool. It is wound on very loosely and I can pull it sideways and see that the spool looks in superb condition ( from what I can see), but, I do want to remove the entire line to inspect the spool. These bigger reels look, in my opinion, superb without line, if the spool is in minty condition, so I was considering leaving it off.
Maybe the option of making something up to display the line separately would appease.......
Thanks for the explanation Steve
Col
Quote from: oldmanjoe on February 10, 2019, 08:23:14 PM
:) You could get a line dryer and store it on the dryer next to the reel ::)..
Some pictures of line dryers.
Wow, Joe, those are cool!
Hi Joe,
Thanks for the photo's, wow, now they look sweet !
I got on the big sale sight last night and had a look for some, none down under here but a few different types on offer
From your neck of the woods.
I like the idea, they look Vintage and superb and would look good displaying the old linen line next to the reels.
Thanks again Joe, I'm on the look out.
Col
I'm not an expert on line dryers so forgive me if this sounds ignorant. It does not appear to me that Col is gonna fit the whole spool of line on the line dryer unless it is the size of a Ferris Wheel. I assume they were designed to hold only the amount of line you had out. am I correct in my assumptions?
JMO, but if it were Ray's, I'd def keep the line with it on a dryer or on the reel, as it was when he had it (after inspecting spool of course).
Quote from: 1badf350 on February 12, 2019, 12:49:53 PM
they were designed to hold only the amount of line you had out. am I correct in my assumptions?
Linen soaks up water like a sponge, wicks water and then stays wet for a long time. After a day of trolling and splashing around I think you would end up having to remove and dry almost all of it. But, linen is also thick compared to modern lines so a 12/0 did not hold many yards back then.
-steve
I had a look on the big auction site, there's a few line dryers there, but I'd rather put my hard earned into reels at the minute.
I don't have another 12 as yet, so I'm going to make up a " Col special" line holder/dryer so as I can check out the spool.
I'll take a few Pic's of the spool, check out the condition of the line as well, make sure it's all Ok, then I'll put the line back on
the reel as it is now. maybe one day a big enough Vintage line dryer may present itself and I can use it....
Col
Make sure the Col Special has flanges, whatever it is. If you wind it onto a straight dowel and one or two loops slip off the end later it will turn into a hopeless mess.
-steve
You can use an extension cord reel from the hardware store for under $20
Quote from: oc1 on February 13, 2019, 07:41:49 AM
Make sure the Col Special has flanges, whatever it is. If you wind it onto a straight dowel and one or two loops slip off the end later it will turn into a hopeless mess.
-steve
Yep, don't want that happening Steve, I can imagine the tears afterwards !
Quote from: 1badf350 on February 13, 2019, 08:59:29 AM
You can use an extension cord reel from the hardware store for under $20
Your onto it Chris ! Perfect
I may even have something like that at the factory.
Col
Quote from: wfjord on February 13, 2019, 11:53:18 AM
A garden hose reel might be a good option for drying line and has a crank handle, too.
https://www.amazon.com/Yimai-Portable-Storage-Maximum-Connector/dp/B07FP5R8DV
[/quote
Skip that idea , the neighbor`s give you the strangest looks while rolling line up on the hose reel
They think you were out in the sun too long.
Hi Guys,
Well I made up a " Col special " line holder to remove all the line,
And I have to say, the line wasn't turned around at all and is in a good a condition on the outer as it was down near the spool.
The spool was in superb condition, which I was extremely happy about.
What was noticeable once the line was removed, was that the reel seat has surface pitting and even some green stuff which would have
been obscured by the line, SO unfortunately, it just had to go in for a vinegar soak !!! didn't want to have to, but it must be done.
The insides of the reel, doesn't show much use at all.
Which is interesting as to the condition of the reel seat. With the reel, in a bag, came the other bits and bolts with it and they were also
in a pretty bad state. Seems strange that everything else about the reel shows minimal use, but everything from the reel seat down does.
What was interesting, was the markings on the end of the spool and on the internal wear. I make it out to maybe be a no 7 ?
It's done in pencil, which to me may have been done from day dot and indicate very little use. ?
In every ones opinion, would I be better, just leaving it as it is ? putting it back together after the reel seat is cleaned up ?
On my previous reels, I've completely stripped them down, scrubbed them up, greased etc, but I feel I should leave well alone....
?
Col
And, just to take up more space !
along with the reel, came this old reel bag, I think its some type of leather.
The reel seems like a perfect fit and I would suggest this is where it's spent most of it's years in.
It's still in really good condition and it has this, (might sound strange) beautiful smell to it ...
Col
The sevens are makers marks. They sometimes had to hand file/fit components and the number tells them which parts go together.
-steve
Hi Steve,
Hey, I was thinking of your comments, re sometimes line was reversed, when I was taking it off, but it really was in superb condition.
I was sort of thinking those marks could have been from the beginning. There definitely pencil markings, as the one on the spool
rubbed off easily with finger pressure ( only did a small portion at the bottom). So I'm picking they would have rubbed off easily with plenty
of use. Thanks for that.
Now, just leave it as is and re assemble ?
Col
Some makers would scribe/scratch the numbers in with an awl or something so they're there forever.
-steve
Thanks Steve.
Well I gave her wipe over and a light greasing inside, then re assembled her, ready for another 80 years of survival, hopefully.
Decided to leave the line off for a while, got her sitting on my desk in front of me at home and I just luv looking at these big naked Senators.
The reel seat came up quite good, with not as much chrome loss as I thought there would be, with the line back on it will be hardly noticeable.
Col
That reel looks great Col!! WOW
Looks great Col, I am surprized how nice the spool came up, cheers Don.
That reel looks great! And having the old line in good shape is special, whether on the reel or off. Steve - I'm glad you explained the markings, I just maintenance a 976CS International for a friend that had purchased it new, and when I had it open it had letters hand scribed on the inside of the side plate. I asked him more than once if he ever had any work done on the reel, and he swore he bought it new, in the box, and I was the first person to have it apart. Now it makes sense.
Quote from: 1badf350 on February 19, 2019, 09:31:07 AM
That reel looks great Col!! WOW
Thanks Chris, It was your advice that made me pull the trigger on this one and I'm so glad I did !
I luv my knuckle busters, but there's something about these Senators.
So, 3 1st Gen down, 4 to go, but seeing you and others with the full compliment, gives me the encouragement to keep pursuing them.
Quote from: Donnyboat on February 19, 2019, 12:56:37 PM
Looks great Col, I am surprized how nice the spool came up, cheers Don.
Thanks Don, I wasn't sure what the spool condition was until the line came off, and it was a great surprise as to the condition.
Just that reel seat really needed to be soaked, but it's hardly noticeable.
Quote from: Brewcrafter on February 19, 2019, 05:02:29 PM
That reel looks great! And having the old line in good shape is special, whether on the reel or off. Steve - I'm glad you explained the markings, I just maintenance a 976CS International for a friend that had purchased it new, and when I had it open it had letters hand scribed on the inside of the side plate. I asked him more than once if he ever had any work done on the reel, and he swore he bought it new, in the box, and I was the first person to have it apart. Now it makes sense.
It sure is interesting finding these things when you open up a reel, a big learning curve.
As mentioned, I'm leaving the line off at the minute, just luv perving at this thing with no line. I may put it back on the reel after a while
but if one of those old vintage line dryer/holders pops up, I may go that way.
cheers all
Col