think about it. what most of us do is not reel repair. it's custom work and restoration. it's crazy to spend 2, 3 or 4 hours on a reel and only charge $20. right? but that is what most of us do. for me, a star drag reel is $20 to 40 for service, plus the cost of parts and return shipping. restoration work should be "by the hour." so should anything custom - gear sleeves, handle upgrades, frames.
this is restoration, not repair.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/27/1_13_03_19_10_19_44_27258559.jpeg)
Quote from: alantani on March 13, 2019, 05:22:20 PM
think about it. what most of us do is not reel repair. it's custom work and restoration. it's crazy to spend 2, 3 or 4 hours on a reel and only charge $20. right? but that is what most of us do. for me, a star drag reel is $20 to 40 for service, plus the cost of parts and return shipping. restoration work should be "by the hour." so should anything custom - gear sleeves, handle upgrades, frames.
this is restoration, not repair.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/27/1_13_03_19_10_19_44_27258559.jpeg)
Alan: I made the same mistake at first when learning the reel restoration and custom parts, I am still learning pricing.
Joe
I have 5 Shimano Tekotas and 3 Penn reels that I'm currently working on in the same situation with now. I had to beat two of the Tekotas apart and have 3-5 hours each into them, and one still isn't done. $20 divided by 5 hours sucks. I can make better $ collecting cans and bottles off the street and it is cutting into the time I could be wiring boats for real money. The next batch is Diawa reels and they look tough on the outside but they are for a good friend so money is not involved.
Quote from: alantani on March 13, 2019, 05:22:20 PM
think about it. what most of us do is not reel repair. it's custom work and restoration. it's crazy to spend 2, 3 or 4 hours on a reel and only charge $20. right? but that is what most of us do. for me, a star drag reel is $20 to 40 for service, plus the cost of parts and return shipping. restoration work should be "by the hour." so should anything custom - gear sleeves, handle upgrades, frames.
this is restoration, not repair.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/27/1_13_03_19_10_19_44_27258559.jpeg)
That's called servicing the reel!
Quote from: MarkT on March 13, 2019, 05:49:21 PM
Quote from: alantani on March 13, 2019, 05:22:20 PM
think about it. what most of us do is not reel repair. it's custom work and restoration. it's crazy to spend 2, 3 or 4 hours on a reel and only charge $20. right? but that is what most of us do. for me, a star drag reel is $20 to 40 for service, plus the cost of parts and return shipping. restoration work should be "by the hour." so should anything custom - gear sleeves, handle upgrades, frames.
this is restoration, not repair.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/27/1_13_03_19_10_19_44_27258559.jpeg)
That's called servicing the reel!
??? ??? ??? ::) If you do your own work.
Joe
Quote from: Keta on March 13, 2019, 05:48:09 PM
$20 divided by 5 hours sucks. I can make better $ collecting cans and bottles off the street
I keep saying that to myself a lot of times amigo.
the only thing that keeps me from losing the mind is that I still enjoy working on reels, so thats 3/4 of the payment.
same deal when restoring a old and beat-up rod with a good salvable blank
Hmmm... So there's repair/restoration/customization. Repair = part replacement or part tweaking. Restoration = cleaning and possibly part tweaking. Customization = part replacement upgrades. Do you bill seperately for these diffrent things?
Tryin to envision it kinda like the insurance industry/medical-dental(profession?) industries set things up. It takes me alota time tryin to figure out the invoice/bills/reciepts they give me. I know they just want me to pay & not ask questions and most people probably do, but I've caught errors and unethical BS a couple of times. "A $190 charge for a consultation fee!?, all you did was ask me if I was "ok" after you finished the root canal!"
It's rightly called "Charity". ::) Form a 501C3! :o , or, on a different note, maybe the client should form the 501C3 so the work could be considered a "Charitable Contribution". ;D
$190 consulting fee, thats about AU $ 260, now tommy thats not charity, its a B'''''''''' rip offfff, cheers Don.
I only repair for myself and my buddies for price of parts only and I don't take on outside projects. Last thing I want to do is reel repair.
i've always tried to keep my prices low, which is probably why i have such a backlog. there was actually a time when i only charged for parts!
Hmmmm, :-\ :-X
Joe
When I first started over 40 years ago — it was $8 + parts — and I would pick up and deliver, if necessary.
Some of these reels would take me 8 or 10 hours — I would work on any kind of reel to learn.
No one knew that I was getting my education by working on their reels! They actually were under the impression that I knew what I was doing.
As the years rolled past, prices went up a little because of inflation, cleaners, equipment, and the fact that I was getting too much business because I was so cheap.
Now, a complete disassembly, cleaning, service, lube, tune, and adjust runs an average of $30 + parts.
Some are $20, some are closer to $35.
A big part of what we do, and how busy we are — boils down to experience, reputation, and fairness.
As for charging by the hour, that would not be fair to me — since I can complete a reel from scratch in less than an hour. Some less experienced guys might take 6-8 hours on the same reel — and only give the client half the quality that I think I offer.
Think of it this way — let's say I need my transmission rebuilt...
An apprentice takes 25 hours — and an experienced journeyman can do the job in 7 because he has done 1000 in the past — and he knows the tricks and tips for a better job when completed.
Now the shop flat-rate book calls for 16 hours of labor.
I will pay for the 16 hours all day long — and go with the experienced guy — even though it only took him 7 hours. Time is no measurement of quality — experience is.
Same thing with heart surgery — guy who has done 3000 successfully — or the guy with a few under his belt?
As to upgrades — just a flat fee, plus the service, plus the parts.
And...it is always nice to give a client more than they expect. A few items free, some extra work, or?
I generally try to do that also. I think we all do.
Sometimes I get a client who just wants a some specific parts replaced. I generally respectfully refuse those jobs, unless I can also check over the entire reel, do a complete disassembly, cleaning, and lube.
Like most of us on here — it has to be done right & professionally.
If we wouldn't fish it ourselves — it is not completed — no exceptions.
And one last thing — we are respected and appreciated more, if we charge a fair price. If we do it too cheap — neither the client nor we will appreciate that. Folks don't want to be gouged — they just want a good job at a fair price.
So if we do not value our work and skill — why would anyone else value it?
Best,
Fred
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 13, 2019, 08:26:04 PM
It's rightly called "Charity". ::) Form a 501C3! :o , or, on a different note, maybe the client should form the 501C3 so the work could be considered a "Charitable Contribution". ;D
I thought your 501C3 was a left handed Abu I don't have. that's why I don't make any money :)
Quote from: thorhammer on March 14, 2019, 01:55:26 AM
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 13, 2019, 08:26:04 PM
It's rightly called "Charity". ::) Form a 501C3! :o , or, on a different note, maybe the client should form the 501C3 so the work could be considered a "Charitable Contribution". ;D
I thought your 501C3 was a left handed Abu I don't have. that's why I don't make any money :)
;D ;D ;D 8) 8) ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: David Hall on March 13, 2019, 09:04:22 PM
I only repair for myself and my buddies for price of parts only and I don't take on outside projects. Last thing I want to do is reel repair.
This has always been my point as well. I also do rods on the same basis.
Wife keeps saying why don't I charge all these guys?
* Well firstly the market does not allow me to charge a fair price for my time and efforts.
* If I did charge, I would need to deliver a decent service & commit myself to some time
frames etc.
* Obtaining parts here is very difficult.
* I suppose there is an issue of liability as well, some stuff will get broken in the process.
Reel prices have increased a lot the past few years so perhaps we can charge a bit more but very quickly the price of the labour plus a part or two is near enough to the price of a new reel.
There was a time when I did not repair my own reels, just bought a new one and kept using the best parts between the lot. Was a good strategy!
Alan can I pay you with lingusia I just made 22.5 lbs.
Mike
Just as an example* I bought tooling from Germany for my lathe and payed $125.00 for the tool holders the dealer contacted me and said he made a mistake in pricing and that I had to pay $19.68 more. It was his mistake but I payed. Why. because people make mistakes and prices of tool and materials are going up year by year.
You can't buy a Baby-Ruth candy bar for a nickel anymore either.
Joe
I joined this site to learn to repair my own reels. I really don't enjoy it as many other members do. Just like cleaning the boat, or changing the oil in a internal combustion engine, it's something you just have to do. I do fix my friends reels at no charge but it is a hassle if you don't have a parts inventory because shipping costs for one small part often costs as much as 6x or more than what the part(s) cost. For you guys that do it as a business it must be tough but I think Fred made some good points.
Scott
Ha-ha, glad it's not just me that it takes so long for a restoration. Btw, same goes for judging the fish you catch/eat based on price per pound...
One last set of thoughts that occurred to me this morning — then I will stop...
The VAST majority of experienced anglers — have no idea or no desire — to repair and service their own reels.
On our site, we find that hard to believe — or do not even comprehend that way of thinking. That is because most on here are "doers", and are immersed in the mindset of repairing anything from appliances, to mechanics, doing fabrication, carpentry, masonry, basically anything another person made — we figure we can fix it.
There is a whole generation of Mellenials, "X'rs", and other well educated professionals who would not even attempt to do a minor plumbing job, door adjustment, sheetrock repair, carpentry job, auto repair, or any other issue around their lives. They just call a professional — and are OK with that. They have the income, and prefer to have these repairs and services done by someone else.
We should look at ourselves the same way, as professionals — because that is what we are.
The prices charged — start with what is fair to all concerned.
Don't sell yourself cheaply, or short.
You perform a valuable service that folks are willing to pay for — and they are appreciative.
I don't know how many hundreds of clients that I have done work for over the years — who have a $50,000 boat, and all that goes with that, maybe $10,000 worth of rods and reels, a $40,000 tow vehicle, thousands to spend on long range and exotic fishing trips, and more — who, when looking at a photo of a reel that I have disassembled — say, I am glad I did not try to do that work — I would be way over my head. Thank You, they say...
$10 or $20 isn't going to make a bit of difference — as long as your work is good, and you explain to them what was involved — so they know...
An honest Workman needs to both know that he performs a valuable service — and have the ability to charge a fair price for all concerned — and be paid gratefully...
Just my opinions...
Best,
Fred
well, my prices have been going up lately, but mostly because the reels i have been getting have been in such bad shape. :-\
Quote from: foakes on March 14, 2019, 06:18:19 PM
One last set of thoughts that occurred to me this morning — then I will stop...
The VAST majority of experienced anglers — have no idea or no desire — to repair and service their own reels.
On our site, we find that hard to believe — or do not even comprehend that way of thinking. That is because most on here are "doers", and are immersed in the mindset of repairing anything from appliances, to mechanics, doing fabrication, carpentry, masonry, basically anything another person made — we figure we can fix it.
There is a whole generation of Mellenials, "X'rs", and other well educated professionals who would not even attempt to do a minor plumbing job, door adjustment, sheetrock repair, carpentry job, auto repair, or any other issue around their lives. They just call a professional — and are OK with that. They have the income, and prefer to have these repairs and services done by someone else.
Fred
In my case it might be a unique situation, but my sub plumber is a college graduate, my excavator is also one. He was a CPA and pulled out of the office to do construction.
I'm not a college graduate, but have been running my own business for the past 27 years with 0 complains by the way and been at it for 44 years. Oh, I also repair and upgrade reels on the side :).
I have all types of customers, a close friend was big with pharmaceuticals and used to tell me he would drop everything in a heart beat to do what I do.
I also want to add, at the rate we're going, in about 10 or so years people will pay out of their nose to get good old fashion work.
I haven't been able to teach anyone, they usually run after 2 weeks and that's not because they rather study, the want to go home and play video games all day.
Back to reel service, I don't believe everyone is charging enough, but that's only my opinion.
Mine are done as a hobby and not business, but if I do retire in a couple of years, I might get a little more involved :-\.
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 14, 2019, 07:10:55 PMI haven't been able to teach anyone, they usually run after 2 weeks and that's not because they rather study, the want to go home and play video games all day.
Same here, I have offered to help several young people learn but no interest. We are in a throw away society. Our college grad son is now in the trades, HVAC, but most kids today do not like to get their hands dirty. Our son PAID his way through college doing concrete work and has zero student loan debt.
Just the phrase "well educated" raises my blood pressure. It's been way over utilized the last few years. >:( I spent just one semester in college and quickly realized that I was educated enough not to make a career out of reading books and being influenced by professors. While my high school friends were creating debt I decided to make some money, started my own construction business and retired the first time around at 50 while most were still trying to get out from under the debt they created. I got bored after a couple of years & decided to come out of retirement and piddle around for 15. "Well educated", IMO, is a totally subjective mind set. ;) If one is willing to work hard nothing beats the "school of hard knocks and experience", and the financial and mental rewards can be extraordinary. :)
Now onto reels. ;D At this point I enjoy, a lot, working on my own reels because it's a hobby! If I had to do it for a living, just like any other vocation, I'm sure I would probably lose interest quickly.
I used to think, in my naive, younger, days, that being a commercial hunting and/or fishing guide would be the ultimate way to make a living. I'm glad I never indulged because I found that about two straight weeks of fighting mother nature and the elements was about the extent of that enjoyment. ::)
Quote from: foakes on March 14, 2019, 06:18:19 PM
One last set of thoughts that occurred to me this morning — then I will stop...
The VAST majority of experienced anglers — have no idea or no desire — to repair and service their own reels.
On our site, we find that hard to believe — or do not even comprehend that way of thinking. That is because most on here are "doers", and are immersed in the mindset of repairing anything from appliances, to mechanics, doing fabrication, carpentry, masonry, basically anything another person made — we figure we can fix it.
There is a whole generation of Mellenials, "X'rs", and other well educated professionals who would not even attempt to do a minor plumbing job, door adjustment, sheetrock repair, carpentry job, auto repair, or any other issue around their lives. They just call a professional — and are OK with that. They have the income, and prefer to have these repairs and services done by someone else.
We should look at ourselves the same way, as professionals — because that is what we are.
The prices charged — start with what is fair to all concerned.
Don't sell yourself cheaply, or short.
You perform a valuable service that folks are willing to pay for — and they are appreciative.
I don't know how many hundreds of clients that I have done work for over the years — who have a $50,000 boat, and all that goes with that, maybe $10,000 worth of rods and reels, a $40,000 tow vehicle, thousands to spend on long range and exotic fishing trips, and more — who, when looking at a photo of a reel that I have disassembled — say, I am glad I did not try to do that work — I would be way over my head. Thank You, they say...
$10 or $20 isn't going to make a bit of difference — as long as your work is good, and you explain to them what was involved — so they know...
An honest Workman needs to both know that he performs a valuable service — and have the ability to charge a fair price for all concerned — and be paid gratefully...
Just my opinions...
Best,
Fred
Fred: Thank you for putting it so well and honestly.
Joe
Education is a foundation like a house foundation, then it's what you make of it, that is were the skill comes in play.
Joe
Agree with Joe, Tommy, Fred, Lee & Sal.
After several junk reels, I finally got a MG 300 as a young teenager and trial & error'ed my to learning to service it. The salesman told me NOT to take it apart---I'd never get it back together! Ha!
My latest thing is clothing repair, especially replacing worn out elastic. I shop hard for good stuff that is expensive. No way I'm tossin stuff I like. We don't have an REI here. Also, mold makes footwear fall apart here pretty quickly(Shoe-Goo!).
If I's to go into reel repair as a business, my nightmere customer types would be like my wife. Mrs. "more stuff and service, for less"; she can sweet talk you, or she can wear you out with words until you just give her what she wants. Worked great with our house builders, probably cause they were from China and didn't know about contracts...