So my friend has a sentimental rod and reel that needs some work. Age unknown. I want to help fix it up but doesn't seem to make financial sense to ship it to Penn. I see new ones occasionally coming to market in low $100 range. And with new drag kits going for what $40 even that is giving me pause. So do you all think I can take off the handle drop out the washers and have a sporting chance of re-assembling without ending up w a box of parts??
The reel is a 9/0 and is actually in good shape. The clicker and free spool are smooth.. The drag spins freely but when I tighten down it goes from no drag to heavy drag in a short distance and clearly surges.
(https://i.imgur.com/GsBw3Yr.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nBiDX5I.jpg)
all the information you need is here. this is what we're here for! ;D
The answer to your question is YES!!
Any who have the ability to post & type here can do this. Use your camera on your phone to take pics as you go. If you Futz it up come back explain whats happening & you will be guided through to reel Nirvana... Jeff
Thanks for the encouragement!! I did watch a vid or 2 of a full 9/0 rebuild. I guess I should look at it this way.
If I screw up I can always ship it to Penn (next door) or carry in to my local shop.
Any idea how old this reel is?? I presumed from last millennium.BUT........Seems in way too good shape? The dacron is beautiful and seems brand new!
Mystic sells a set of drags with metal washers for that reel for $13.85. That's all you need. Dominick
Thanks I just ordered a set.
The drag disks on that reel are the easiest of all to get to. They are easily accessible by just removing the handle and star, no need to take the whole reel apart. The only issue I can see would be if the old disks are stuck in place...
Quote from: nelz on April 07, 2019, 06:52:38 PM
The drag disks on that reel are the easiest of all to get to. They are easily accessible by just removing the handle and star, no need to take the whole reel apart. The only issue I can see would be if the old disks are stuck in place...
While this is true, it would be best to take the whole reel apart and give it a full service. Go slow and look at Alan's tutorials. It will show the trick to put it together. Dominick
you got this....and we got you if you don't.
Let me echo the idea of a full service. If it is older 9/0, then it has a three-stack of asbestos drag washers, and odds are that at least one is stuck -- meaning that you'll need to disassemble the reel to remove the old nasty drag washers. But fear not: These are very easy reels to work on and if you have questions, send an e-mail or give a call. Good luck, and Tight Lines!
Yep...I agree...if it's worth new drags...it's worth a good servicing. You'll most likely be shocked by how few parts there really are in that reel. Knowing it's been assembled right really builds confidence in your reels. 8)
When doing the full service, as well as a new drag stack —
A new under gear washer is recommended also —
(3) ways to go —
Stock new friction washer — install dry.
CF washer — install lightly greased.
Delrin washer — install dry.
Wherever you ordered the drag stack from — order an under gear washer of your choice also — it is just another dollar, or less — and they will not ship out the order until early tomorrow morning. So if you do it today — no extra shipping cost.
Best,
Fred
The older 9/0 has bushings and you could get away with servicing just the drag washers
Your 9/0 has bearings and should have a full service including the bearings
handle set screw 2 washers and cylinder came off AOK
(https://i.imgur.com/NWeANdK.jpg)
1st batch of drags (2) and washers (2) looks good
These 2 washers very distorted
(https://i.imgur.com/5Gvd8wb.jpg)
Besides for those 2 washers everything else looks amazing
(https://i.imgur.com/zWk3qoY.jpg)
As I look at the reels dacron and these drags I'm uncertain as to when this was last serviced. Reel is at least 35 yrs old
Dis assembly order
(https://i.imgur.com/2G8QIRH.jpg)
The 2 washers that you say are distorted are made that way. They are spring washers to make the drag increase more gradual. The 2 fiber washers that you dug out are asbestos brake linings & there is another fiber washer in there to get rid of. They are replaced by a 5 washer set of HT-100 carbon fiber washers that are greased with Cal's Drag Grease. If you can't get the third fiber washer out you will have to disassemble the reel to get the main gear out to pry, chop,scrape, etc to get it out. One of the reasons the reel is jerkey with little adjustment is that that third washer is frozen to the main gear & it is made with outdated material not to mention that asbestos is dangrous to your health. Rudy
Go get em, Rudy!
I have to go in further???
(https://i.imgur.com/1mS5hyb.jpg)
Thats the bottom of the main gear. Replace with your new washers and ................ enjoy.
Cheers:
Todd
Quote from: foakes on April 07, 2019, 10:59:27 PM
When doing the full service, as well as a new drag stack —
A new under gear washer is recommended also —
(3) ways to go —
Stock new friction washer — install dry.
CF washer — install lightly greased.
Delrin washer — install dry.
Wherever you ordered the drag stack from — order an under gear washer of your choice also — it is just another dollar, or less — and they will not ship out the order until early tomorrow morning. So if you do it today — no extra shipping cost.
Do you have a part number for that??
That last picture you took was a good one, lot's a detail. Should be a 4 - 115 for the stock Penn washer( "under-gear"washer). Best IMHO is the delrin that Smoooth Drag would carry. I think you gotta take apart the right side-plate to replace that'n. PM me if we're on the same page and I can eaisly mail you one, n/c.
take the reel apart & do it propaly, then you can place the undergear wash in there, I am sure you can manage it, make sure you use nice fitting screw drivers, work close to your body, so the screw drives dont slip of & cratch your chrome rings, you can do it, I have my money on your, take your time, if you get confused, there is plenty of help here, a delrin washer under the star is a good idea to, cheers Don
Quote from: rebait1 on April 08, 2019, 10:42:42 PM
I have to go in further???
(https://i.imgur.com/1mS5hyb.jpg)
You don't have to go further. However, the photo shows rust around the main gear. There must be more rust inside. I know you are reluctant to go any further but you really should give that reel a full service. Dominick
Quote from: Dominick on April 10, 2019, 02:11:31 AM
I have to go in further???
You don't have to go further. However, the photo shows rust around the main gear. There must be more rust inside. I know you are reluctant to go any further but you really should give that reel a full service. Dominick
Dominick is exactly right — there are enough telltale signs showing in your pics — that the reel would benefit from a complete clean & service.
And if you decide to stick around to learn more — in a short period of time — you will also recognize what needs to be done — and you can in turn help others with your knowledge.
With the amount of rust and gouges evident in the gear, on the sleeve, under the ring edges — the entire reel inside would run and fish 100% — if restored properly.
And, I doubt if anything else would be needed — except the drag stack and under gear washer — and the reel drive train components properly lubed with Cal's for the drag stack — and either Yamaha Marine or Penn grease for the gears and other innards. After cleaning up — also grease the underside of the rings, along with the screws when reassembling.
These Penn Senator reels are like Lazarus rising from the dead — they turn out great, and will fish well for another 40 years.
No big expense — just time for a restore — and there are plenty of folks here to guide you through — it is very simple.
Best,
Fred
I did watch a vid on a full tear down, but can't find one here. Would someone please post the link I'm getting ready to go in deep!
Rebait, couldn't find a video, but Fred has a nice layout of the inner parts
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=13430.msg135437#msg135437
Older Penn reels are pretty much the same, if you see one you've seen them all.
Give it a shot, we would not let you down if you need us.
Worse come to worst, you put it in a ziplock bag and send it to one of the member for assembly. Your cost would only be shipping.
Sal
I'd be willing to do it, although Sal is practically a neighbor. Dominick
Thanks guys. I see what you all mean. Even though that rust cleaned up pretty good there...... it's a good indication that everything else (at least on that side) under the side plate is probably in desperate need of TLC
So I'll do a full tear down. 3 Prayers!!!
Go for it and like Sal said worse case you can ship it in a baggy to one of us to fix.
Quote from: rebait1 on April 08, 2019, 09:54:14 PM
These 2 washers very distorted
(https://i.imgur.com/5Gvd8wb.jpg)
Like Rudy posted above they are wavy spring washers and that's the way they are made.
Hey as it happens, i have a 9/0 project apart on my bench waiting a dog and sleeve pin. I will prolly put back together Sunday...want pics? same external drag as yours, but it's a full reclamation.
Any and all tips greatly appreciated. I'm domiciled in Exton Pa
rebait1@yahoo.com
I'm gonna start a separate thread. This one is your to post :)
Reboot, the 9/0 is one of the easiestre Penns to do. Parts are big enough for my fumble fingers and the dog spring is a flat leaf spring which doesn't launch like the coil springs on the smaller reels. There a lots of guys here that can coach you through. Use a digital camera to photograph each step and follow one of the tutorials posted here. Good fitting screw driver and Penn wrench is necessary. Let us know how your doing....Bill
I'm pretty confused by 're assembling anti revers dog sliding over screw and how the flat spring lays on top of dog'.
The tear down looks easy enough. I'm getting ready to proceed!!
Several years before I joined this site, I was gonna completely tear-down & rebuild my 114HL. Got the side-plates off and the tail-plate was easy: grease on the clicker parts, oil in the ballbearing.
Looked at the head-plate with that big flat brass plate( bridge-plate) and the 4 screws still in it and said "no way, looks like there's too much goin on in there. If I take that apart, I'll probably never get it back together right". I think I was probably right and wise enough based on past experience, to avoid that.
Once I came here and learned to navigate the site, Allen's tutorial got me through it. 4 tries, but I finally got it right!
Not too long after that, Sal's double-dog tutorial got me to accomplish that feat! Now I have a "clickity-clackin" 114HL, with new C-tex washers, a stainless steel gear sleeve and dogs. Someday, maybe I'll do faster/stronger gears, and an insert drag system...
I was that close to packing it in, then said what the heck why not?!?!
You guys were right it was compromised inside.
(https://i.imgur.com/0sn4cf2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YX0M2Fs.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8Ao12Xy.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/N8oqUIY.jpg)
Do you think bearings ok?
(https://i.imgur.com/GA7OzDW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AQHnrxU.jpg)
Cleaning up OK
(https://i.imgur.com/rLlzkEr.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IqTiuyk.jpg)
I put some time into cleaning these....
(https://i.imgur.com/ZyYMssN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QSS1XIc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ukwigr1.jpg)
I had a dickens of a time getting off 1 of that side plate screws. All the others came of easy peasy. BUT My screw driver wasn't perfect and the on that one I had to hold the frame post with pliers in my left hand while holding screwdriver in right and turning the post!. One vey finally came off.
Now here's where I'm stumped. Isn't there suppose to be a pin holding this pinion on the shaft (names escape me I can't read the schematic to save my life). I watched a vid and guy hit a very thin metal piece with a mallet driving the pin(?) do the pinion slid off the bridge(?) It seems to be pretty easy spinning but I'd hate to get this far and not do whole thing properly.
Here's what I can't get apart. the tutorial I saw said to punch the top indentation. Which side do I knock and how far do I need to push it. (I get a tiny punch from HF tomorrow)
(https://i.imgur.com/P0epCN9.jpg)
There is a small pin crossways in the gear sleeve that has to be pushed or drifted out to clean & regrease the bridge shaft. A small nail sometimes works unless it is stubborn then you will need the correct size drift punch. 1/8" I think. You can see the pin from either side in the top hole. Rudy
That little tiny indentation? It seems so small and flush it doesn't look like it will come out....Anyway Do I need to remove it completely? I'm guessing yes lol
I would remove it completely so it doesn't get lost in the cleaning & lubing. Once it is halfway out it almost falls out.
Hi Rebait, the pin is near thread on the gear sleeve, but if the gear sleeve is spinning freely, then leave it as is, just lube it with TSI 321, or a light synthetic oil, the bearings are abit harder to get at, get a seringe, with a needle on it, suck some oil into it then squirt some oil behind the bearing, then place a wooden rod in it a turn the bearing, if it is free with know grinding, then it is okay, if it is grinding, then you will have to leaver the bearing out, take the sleave from it & wash it out with carb cleaner, or WD40, then reoil it, if the bearing still feels rough, the replace it, see how that goes, then ask for more info, cheers Don. I still got my money on you. yee haa.
If you decide to remove the gear sleeve pin, what works for me is to lay it down ona piece of wood with a hole that the pin can move down into(~3/16), then use a 1/16-1/8" "pin punch". If it dosen't come out, penetrating oil, and/or heat might get it. Freezing can work too, but for me cooling works best on aluminium-metal combinations.
JMO, the ballbearings are still usable in a Senator >4/0, even when moderately rough, cause I'm not gonna cast it. After cleaning, some heavy oil inside and a coating of marine grease works. These can be difficult to remove from the cup if there's any corrosion and may get damaged in the removal process. Might be best to leave 'em in the cup and soak with something(I use Inox Mx3), before lubing.
This is fun, huh!?!
I got it off thanks to a small punch from harbor Freight
(https://i.imgur.com/fsIcR71.jpg)
Good news is....I was able to re assemble accept for the spring and anti revers dog. That's going to take some work. But......I am having issues!
1. Should I order Cals drag grease? I have Penn lube and oil
2. What is the part number for the small 'spring' that's like a small hair pin bent to 45 degree and works with anti reverse dog?? It went MIA IS IT THE ECCENTRIC SPRING 2-114???
3. I damaged 1 frame post screw on handle side. So it's the longer of the 2 crews. What's it's part number 39-13??
(https://i.imgur.com/bfladPN.jpg)
Quote from: Gfish on April 09, 2019, 10:29:16 PM
That last picture you took was a good one, lot's a detail. Should be a 4 - 115 for the stock Penn washer( "under-gear"washer). Best IMHO is the delrin that Smoooth Drag would carry. I think you gotta take apart the right side-plate to replace that'n. PM me if we're on the same page and I can eaisly mail you one, n/c.
Thanks I see what you mean the one in place is in bad shape. I PM'ed you please let me know if you can still send it, I'll PayPal costs of course !!
The dog spring is 14-116. It comes straight. Just bend it enough as you are putting it in The less bend the more tension. Yes, get a small container of Cal's grease for the drags. An ounce or two will last through quite a few reels. I use flux brushes from HF with the bristles shortened about 1/2 with a scissor to apply grease. 2-114 is a chrome side ring on the plate. The eccentric spring is 20-114. My guess is you need the copper strip that is the dog spring. Rudy
If you are already getting the screw and dog spring from someone else — good.
If you haven't made arrangements yet — I would be glad to send them to you tomorrow — N/C.
Best,
Fred
Wow you guys are incredible!!!
Here's what I need. Anyone who sends stuff to me will be paid via PayPal. (I've finally gotten into the 20th century) I PM'ed my info to you foakes
14-116 dog spring.........(2)
37-115 frame posts (2)
39-13 Handle side set screws (2)
4-115 Undergear Fiber Washer (1)
And Cal grease which I see for 10 bucks including shipping (Kind of takes fun out of it lol)
MY MESSAGES SEEM STUCK LET ME KNOW IF IT ARRIVED
Alright, Hoss! You "manned up", and yer gettin 'er done. Delrin "undergear washer" in the mail.
OK, Dave —
Since Greg has you covered on the delrin UG washer —
I can send these out, if they will work for you.
All are New Old Stock except the posts — but these two appear to be of the same quality or better than what is on that 9/0 you are servicing.
Got your address — let me know if these are OK.
You mentioned (2) dog springs — why?
Best,
Fred
In case I screw it up foakes. And thank you guys help and support greatly appreciated.
Got it, Dave —
Will ship it tomorrow.
Best,
Fred
Rebait, you googled into about the best collection of people you might find. Life, period. Not just reels.
Quote from: foakes on April 15, 2019, 09:54:36 PM
Got it, Dave —
Will ship it tomorrow.
Best,
Fred
GOT IT THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow you da man! Please send me contact info via messenger and dollar amount.
N/C, Dave —
Best,
Fred
There you go Dave I told you, you could do it, unfortunately, I could`nt get any takers, as far as bets go, please send photo when finished, good luck cheers Don.
I've been awaiting delivery of Cal's drag grease...just saw the reason for th 6 to 8 week delivery time. It shipped from down under!
So I can't stand it any longer I'm going in to rebuild today. I can always take the drags back out.
Smooth drag has cals grease here in the states,should only take a couple days to get it. I'm sure there's other vendors here too.
Quote from: rebait1 on May 09, 2019, 12:24:59 PM
I've been awaiting delivery of Cal's drag grease...just saw the reason for th 6 to 8 week delivery time. It shipped from down under!
Bummer man! Heck...you can get Cal's about anywhere now that Okuma is pimping it...even Wally's! 8)
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Okuma-Cal-s-Universal-Grease-30-Grams-with-10ML-of-Corrosion-X-HD-Oil/44666399?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227038338670&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=92174643137&wl4=pla-183841002017&wl5=9015859&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=44666399&wl13=&veh=sem&gclid=Cj0KCQjwn8_mBRCLARIsAKxi0GJ2vuINLXYOD7CQ-FLntYtEoxdzk4jK58be0-MC60e73Sb5aRfV3t0aApStEALw_wcB
Rebait, be patient, do it once do it properly, looking forward to the photo when you finish, cheers Don.
I will mirror everyone else - be patient (I know!). Cal's is available from a number of reputable vendors, many of them on this site. But then again, a little goes a long way and it is not cheap (it is the Standard!), so waiting the additional shipping time is probably the fiscally responsible choice since unless you do a LOT of reels, even the 1oz container will last awhile. - Brewcrafter
Well its been awhile, which unto its self is no help. I was side tracked by
stitches
(https://i.imgur.com/We0Y4HW.jpg)
fishing
(https://i.imgur.com/3OPzPVB.jpg)
cardiac by pass....
(https://i.imgur.com/IfLZPsT.jpg)
2 of which I would recommend avoiding!
Now I'm stuck.
Why doesn't this fit flush???
(https://i.imgur.com/FqKGd6G.jpg).
And HOW the anti reverse spring fits totally confuses me
Most everything cleaned up OK. Hoping to do this w/o going to tackle shop!
(https://i.imgur.com/E8AFqJ2.jpg)
The eccentric jack #11-115 isn't gonna sit flush until you put the bridge plate(with the drag stack on top of the gear sleeve) and screw it down from the outside. The "anti-reverse" spring(I call it the eccentric spring) looks right, is the lever screwed down on the outside of the plate? If so, you can flip the lever and push the eccrentic jack flatter as it moves the yolk down.
Dude, best to bring a gun to a knife fight. Hope you heal up well. That 9/0's lookin better, yer gettin close!
"The jack slides over the rivet on the eccentric"......is how it's described on youtube vid. Just seems like it should fit flush.
I'll try again
OK duh from my disassembly pictures I can clearly see they don't fit tightly together thanks.
Glad to see you're back at it... stop messing around with all those stitches and get to catching more of those beautiful stripers. ;)
All looks good so far with the reel. The eccentric won't sit flush at the stage you're at... it will when you put her together though.
Best,
Dom
Nice to see you back at it! Next we need pics with that 9/0 catching fish.
Best wishes for a full recovery.
Sal