Hello to all colleagues!
This is my first post on this forum, although I follow it for a very long time.
I am delighted with this forum.
Since there are many lovers of old DAM reels here, I want to show you something I did with one of them, trying to adapt it to modern fishing conditions.
As for the first time I post photos, I hope that the first post will succeed.
After this photos I will give an explanation and more (better) pictures in next post, but it may not be that very fast.
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182354_zpsznu8dega.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182354_zpsznu8dega.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182254_zpsf71ygn2b.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182254_zpsf71ygn2b.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_181453_zpsf9sszhjf.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_181453_zpsf9sszhjf.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182535_zpslgs9rjuq.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182535_zpslgs9rjuq.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_181858_zpslokezrpa.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_181858_zpslokezrpa.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_181759_zpsrq7v9pa6.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_181759_zpsrq7v9pa6.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182907_zps01xzugxe.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182907_zps01xzugxe.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182649_zpszzomfs5a.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182649_zpszzomfs5a.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182750_zpsjbft0lzz.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182750_zpsjbft0lzz.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182739_zpsgcfl1nw8.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182739_zpsgcfl1nw8.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182712_zpsty6mthp8.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182712_zpsty6mthp8.jpg.html)
Basic information about the upper bailles reel:
1. 7 ball bearings (2 in the handle, 2 in the spool, 2 in the line roller and one ball bearing standard/original in the rotor head),
2. polished metal spool (rounded lips) with special braking system which will be explained later (tested with 12kg drag), cork and stainless steel, Cals grease, 2 ball bearing (12x8x3.5mm),
3. SiC (silicon carbide) line roller with 2 ball bearing (8x5x2.5mm), 12mm diametar of roler, Teflon washers to prevent water penetration...,
4. polished side plate with special screw for fast opening (tool free),
5. stainless steel handle (pin free!!!),
6. Wooden knob with 2 ball bearing (8x5x2.5mm),
7. weight stabilization on the rotor,
8. stainless line roller arm secured with 2 screws made of stainless steel,
9. metal spool knob.
Reel is (this DAM Quick 330N) braid frendly and very smooth (each shaft and everything else is high polished).
Baill arm is very strong.
I tested everything on a 15kg load, and then I said it was enough.
There was no damage even though I tried with impact loads.
Spool is filled with 15lb braid (KastKing), 4mm under spool edge.
Lubrication is carried out with Penn grease (gear), Cal's grease (drag), sewing machine oil (shaft), Yamaha marine grease (line roller)...
More details latter...
Very interesting indeed. May I ask where you got the line roller?
Greg
Very interesting, Milan. Lots of DAM Q fans here.
Greetings from Minnesota USA,
Frank
Welcome !Great job !!
Nice job with the upgrades, Milan!...Welcome to the site.
Sal
Super, man that looks sweet!
Welcome aboard, Milan!
Nice work!
Best,
Fred
Quite a lot of conversion work done on that reel. Very interesting, indeed.
Wow!
Super detail and great photography.....
From one Dam fan to another , welcome!
Best ,
Jonathan
PS
I don't think this qualifies for the " As you find them " thread ..,....
Thanks to everyone who welcomed me!
I forgot to mention the reel is weighting 460gr without a braid.
Quote from: basto on July 14, 2019, 09:43:08 PM
Very interesting indeed. May I ask where you got the line roller?
Greg
Roller was purchased over one of the Chinese sites, I do not know if I could mention it, and roller was very cheap.
Several pieces were bought (6), one of them I tested by treating it with grinding paper and shreds.
The hardness of the material is very large.
The grinding paper could not do anything until I became very persistent and rough with great pressure. Finishing is even better, smooth like glass. The roller geometry is correct. The dimensions do not deviate from the declared.
The roller corresponds to type 2 from the picture. I chose this because I think it contributes most to the elimination of twisting.
I've done some more tests.
1. At the temperature, by baking it on the flame of the gas burner. The temperature that the roller will never experience has not had the effect until I have mechanically broken it for the next test.
2.The next test was scratching on steel, glass and old broken guide (Fuji SiC). He was harder than these materials (same like Fuji guide).
3. The third test was in use with a carbon steel wire with a thickness of 0.4 mm. I drove about 100m.
There was no damage, only the deposits I cleaned up.
For me enough!
Quote from: theswimmer on July 15, 2019, 04:33:57 AM
Wow!
Super detail and great photography.....
From one Dam fan to another , welcome!
Best ,
Jonathan
PS
I don't think this qualifies for the " As you find them " thread ..,....
Thanks for your welcome and comment, Jonathan.
It looks more like: the way I want to find them!!!
:)
That's a sweet hot rod Milan...great work! I'm a big fan of bailless reels. I have a few, not sure why I don't have more, they solve all the problems of a spinning reel. 8)
Heck of a job on that reel, everything down the the screws looks custom in some way. You'll fit right in here. What's your background that got you to this level of customizing reels? Where are you located?what are your plans for the reel?
Quote from: basto on July 14, 2019, 09:43:08 PM
Very interesting indeed. May I ask where you got the line roller?
Greg
Greg,
For comparison here are some more photos about the roller:
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190715_191245_zpsjfyw6v0b.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190715_191245_zpsjfyw6v0b.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190715_191542_1_zps2t9i0nbq.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190715_191542_1_zps2t9i0nbq.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190715_191649_zpsl2segafc.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190715_191649_zpsl2segafc.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190715_202847_zps3brfdrnu.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190715_202847_zps3brfdrnu.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190715_203137_zpswfrynej5.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190715_203137_zpswfrynej5.jpg.html)
There are more details that are not seen in the photographs.
When I have more time, I'll add additional explanations and photos.
There are details that are not seen in the photographs and are essentially very important.
Some of them relate to a very special drag.
Quote from: Swami805 on July 15, 2019, 05:02:43 PM
Heck of a job on that reel, everything down the the screws looks custom in some way. You'll fit right in here. What's your background that got you to this level of customizing reels? Where are you located?what are your plans for the reel?
Thanks for the comment!
I live in Europe, Serbia, the town of Šabac on the river Sava.
I was born in 1974.
By profession I'm a graduated engineer (power engineer).
For many years I was Chief Executive Officer (General director) in power plant in Šabac.
After that I was 3 year tehnical director.
Since last year I have been a Generaal director of the factory for the production of mineral fertilizers.
The job I am doing is hard and exhausting.
The work you see is the product of a hobby that rest and relaxes me.
Almost everything was done manually and in house work with hand tools.
Except screws and rollers, everything else is made with hands in the desire to get the most usable reel.
Reel has been used in fishing for 11 months, by me.
I also have some other projects that have been completed (ABU Cardinal 55 SUPER CASTOM, hahahahaaa ..) as well as some who are just coming.
Very nice work, Milan !
What type of fish are you catching there...pike, I suppose, are in the river...what else ?
Thank you for your very comprehensive reply Milan. You certainly do things thoroughly. Nice reel!
Greg
Quote from: Crow on July 15, 2019, 08:53:47 PM
What type of fish are you catching there...pike, I suppose, are in the river...what else ?
Crow,
I usually catch walley, pike and catfish.
About 50-70 water outlets during the year.
Best catch: catfish, 21kg.
21 kilos is a big cat ......
You do beautiful work. We are anxious to see the rest of the modifications.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on July 17, 2019, 08:19:31 AM
You do beautiful work. We are anxious to see the rest of the modifications.
-steve
Ok, part by part, detail by detail...
My time is complicated, I hope you'll forgive me
In the following photos I have more clarifications about the roller and rotor.
1. Braid is sensitive to friction, so I solved a problem that can occur when the spol is in down position
and drills are long enough. The friction between the braid and the rotor is elimined by cutting/grinding (small peace of rotor) and polishing the whole edge of the entire rotor.
2. The verical position of the roller and all angles can be adjusted on the roller arm. Two screws are in charge of moving the roller in order to find the best position for line lay of braid. It is possible to walk the roller arm about 2.5 mm on both sides in relation to the optimum position. Screws are M4, stainles steel. The possible thickness of the friction matreials (washers) at the bottom of the spool, defines this need.
More photos later...
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/IMG1_zpsbsas1qm0.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/IMG1_zpsbsas1qm0.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182535_zpslgs9rjuq.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190710_182535_zpslgs9rjuq.jpg.html)
Quote from: theswimmer on July 17, 2019, 07:46:36 AM
21 kilos is a big cat ......
There are bigger ones too. More than 90kg.
But they did not end up with me.
:D
Quote from: Milan S on July 18, 2019, 05:20:26 AM
Quote from: theswimmer on July 17, 2019, 07:46:36 AM
21 kilos is a big cat ......
There are bigger ones too. More than 90kg.
But they did not end up with me.
:D
Very nice work Milan and welcome ,by the way :
The world record is french (for now ...) 2.74 m (8ft 11.87 po)& 130kg (286lb 9.6 oz ) (https://static.actu.fr/uploads/2017/09/silure3-854x509.jpg)
[/quote]
Very nice work Milan and welcome ,by the way :
The world record is french (for now ...) 2.74 m (8ft 11.87 po)& 130kg (286lb 9.6 oz ) (https://static.actu.fr/uploads/2017/09/silure3-854x509.jpg)
[/quote]
Thanks for the welcome.
It's really amazing catch!!!
Some new photos, details of the braking system:
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190708_192813_zpslottparg.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190708_192813_zpslottparg.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190708_192809_zpsdsa0ja7m.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190708_192809_zpsdsa0ja7m.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190708_192758_zpsw9qsgejn.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190708_192758_zpsw9qsgejn.jpg.html)
(https://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/milanstosic4474/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190708_192752_zpsdxgrv7pj.jpg) (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/milanstosic4474/media/DAM%20Quick%20330N/IMG_20190708_192752_zpsdxgrv7pj.jpg.html)
It's a brake on a very large surface.
Systtem is made of stainless steel.
There was a lot to fit in here.
Because of my obligations I have not been able to do more and more detailed photos.
When I arrive to photograph parts, everything will be clearer...
I'm on my business way tomorrow and I'll be back to forum in early August.
There will be many photos and explanations.
I think this is the most important part.
Perhaps the most intriguing ...
Regards to all...
Cant wait to see the drag. I'm doing something similar on some old reels... Jeff
;) That is a very smart approach to modifying the drags , got me thinking !! Two frictions at the bottom ?
New photos of drag system:
(https://i.imgur.com/z964MDE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZNyTPFT.jpg)
About details of second picture:
1. Here you can see on the front of the spool two Teflon and one leather washer between them.
2. A leather washer was inserted to achieve linear compressive force from the front side of spool drag.
3. The first washer to the spool knob is also Teflon, due to the smooth reaching of the brake.
About details of first picture:
1. The complete spool setup is seen here (there will be a more detailed photo).
2. The most important part is the cork washer and the stainless steel plate cork washer.
3. The cork is 2.5mm thick, metal plate about 2mm.
4. Cork is coated with graphite powder (graphite pencil with high softness) and CalS grease.
5. The top of the spool shows the first ball bearing installed.
ball bearing in spool, two pieces, closed type:
Upper side...
(https://i.imgur.com/4ztJOgy.jpg)
bottom side...
(https://i.imgur.com/ZT31onP.jpg)
A bit of everything is greased in the pictures, but the brake surfaces of the coil are polished and very smooth.
There was also room for three ball bearings...
Cork details:
(https://i.imgur.com/FDHx94r.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/cxk1kjC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zsudbiz.jpg)
The second photo shows the fit of the cork washer to the spool.
The surface is maximally utilized to obtain maximum braking torque (max. drag).
The third photo shows the trim of the side of the washer.
The edge is slanted to give maximum contact surface with the sides of the coil and additional brake torque.
I love the details, but they are not always essential to function...
With all these elements, a very linear braking characteristic was obtained. And max. drag more than 15kg.
With the following photos I will just briefly open the topic of attaching the lower stainless steel plate ...
(https://i.imgur.com/J5ZzDZB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SUSIffC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hLt8w5C.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/1BZpgUj.jpg)
The steel plate is attached to another part below, which is not visible in these photos.
It is secured with four shortened and machined elastic pins.
The best possible solutions considering the occurrence of forces and elevated temperatures.
After all testing with high forces, the heat dissipation on the steel plate is very high and the temperature is low.
The biggest influence on this result is the size of the plate and the fact that it is made of metal.
The temperature rise was barely noticeable, about 10C, after 250m breacking with 10kg drag, the time the braid was drawn is about 90s.
The spool removal button is shortened.This avoids accidental tangling of the braid around it...
Quote from: oldmanjoe on July 21, 2019, 10:51:11 PM
;) That is a very smart approach to modifying the drags , got me thinking !! Two frictions at the bottom ?
I hope the previous photos have clarified the basic concept a bit.
;)
Quote from: Rivverrat on July 21, 2019, 08:53:26 PM
Cant wait to see the drag. I'm doing something similar on some old reels... Jeff
Rivverrat,
I know there was a bit more waiting, but I couldn't post photos earlier because of the vacation..
:D
I hope one part of your curiosity is satisfied. ;)
There will be many more details just to get organized.
Quote from: Milan S on August 06, 2019, 08:17:38 PM
Quote from: oldmanjoe on July 21, 2019, 10:51:11 PM
;) That is a very smart approach to modifying the drags , got me thinking !! Two frictions at the bottom ?
I hope the previous photos have clarified the basic concept a bit.
Yes they have , Thank you . I like how you substituted the original spool also . Good job .
Milan, thanks for all the photos & fine details, and welcome from sunny Western Australia, cheers Don.
Quote from: Donnyboat on August 07, 2019, 02:52:21 AM
Milan, thanks for all the photos & fine details, and welcome from sunny Western Australia, cheers Don.
Thanks Don.
It is a pleasure to be with all of you.
Best,
Milan
I would also like to add that this kind of brake has a very smooth operation and the compression of the cork is not pronounced (no change in height, compaction of cork is negligible) because it is a force acting on a very large surface.
The initial inertia (startup jerk) is insensitive, smaller than on any other brake I've had the opportunity to use or test.
Cork as a material is used after my insight into fly fishing gear and their need for quality braking.
I will not mention availability, durability and price of cork... In this performance, I think it has all the benefits.
The freewheel of the brake knob on the spool thread is about 2,5 circles. Further braking up to 6kg is in the next 6 full laps and the rest up to about 10 kg in 2,5 more laps. In the range of 0.5kg to 6kg the braking is very linear and the force incrementation is achieved at a speed that suits me
I plan to open a discussion soon on the topic of quality braking and the elements that affect it.
it seems to me that the relationship between the coefficient of friction, vertical force, friction force, the size of the surface on which the braking is performed and the brake torque which is the key variable for quality, reliable and strong braking is not fully understood. I don't know if that goes in this post or any new ... but there is time...
I am sure many others like myself would interested in a drag brake discussion . I can see were the surface area of the cork has helped that spool .
Photobucket is destroyed my photos on first and second page...
>:(
I can still see them but the early ones are blurry. Thanks for taking the time to show us your work.
awesome job on the reel, specially mod on the drag
Thanks!
The cork pad is also coated with a thin layer of graphite and brake grease. I used a soft graphite pencil and Cals grease. Everything is incredibly smooth and with a consistent braking characteristic.
The large diameter of the cork washer allows the development of high braking torque. This further enables high braking forces, which I don't really need (4kg max for me).
The thickness of the cork pad is not an obstacle to adjusting the line lay!
Line lay is fine-tuned with a screws of the roller arm!The roller arm has a channel that allows it to move back and forth. There is a photo on page 2 of this post where you can see it.
I did an even better job on the 331N, but I wouldn't want to duplicate the posts. Maybe one day when the weather allows ... A real beauty reel!
The only thing I would do now on the 330N and 331N is to achieve silent braking on the rotor. It requires good planning and a little more experimentation. Of course, I do not intend to insert one-way bearing. I'll try something else ...
You do excellent work Milan.
If the drag knob has a range of eight revolutions and each thread is about a millimeter, would that be about eight millimeters of compression in the cork and leather? It sounds like too much?
-steve
No leather, no compression. Just presure. Only cork and Teflon washers, no leather for friction.
The large surface of the cork does not allow compaction.
When I get a chance, I'll check the number of full laps. It is possible that I counted myself in semicircles, but I know that there are many turns.
Six full laps for sure.
For silent braking maybe a dog like in older ambassadeur baitcast reels, they are silent. No idea if it's feasible, above my pay grade
Just saw this thread and am intrigued to say the least .
Great Mods
Where did you get or what is the half Bail off of . Or Did Dam make a Half Bail ?
I am just getting into these Dam Reels and appreciate the quality and engineering incorporated in them.
After removing the photo bucket crap and blowing up the image I can see better . Excuse my lack of knowledge on these versions .
Did you remove and shape the area marked in this photo or does the Reel come this way ? Thanks
He made all of the half bail and use a bigger line roller bearing , also cut the smile on the rotor for line clearance.
I still see all his pictures with out problems so i will re post his picture to see if it come clear.
That`s strange the re post has the p b water mark !
Like this ?
Quote from: Milan S on December 19, 2020, 06:38:01 AM
No leather, no compression. Just presure.
Not to be argumentative or denigrate a really great project, but I still don't get it. The space between drag washers of all types approaches zero whether there is a little pressure or a lot of pressure. Cork can compress a lot, even carbontex can compress a little over time. The usual way to provide more range (revolutions) on the drag is to use some sort of spring washer like a wavy washer or Belleville.
-s
how deep is that grey(?) flanged part under the knob?
looks like the perfect place for a short, heavy coil spring
even better than any sheet-metal spring washer, IMO
I'm guessing you like cork best, specifically because it's so springy
you don't need a metal spring, BUT a metal spring of some kind
would allow you to use a more durable material
w/ same results & more range at the high end
Quote from: Milan S on August 06, 2019, 07:29:26 PM
New photos of drag system:
(https://i.imgur.com/z964MDE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZNyTPFT.jpg)
About details of second picture:
1. Here you can see on the front of the spool two Teflon and one leather washer between them.
2. A leather washer was inserted to achieve linear compressive force from the front side of spool drag.
3. The first washer to the spool knob is also Teflon, due to the smooth reaching of the brake.
About details of first picture:
1. The complete spool setup is seen here (there will be a more detailed photo).
2. The most important part is the cork washer and the stainless steel plate cork washer.
3. The cork is 2.5mm thick, metal plate about 2mm.
4. Cork is coated with graphite powder (graphite pencil with high softness) and CalS grease.
5. The top of the spool shows the first ball bearing installed.
After looking at this again ,i noticed that there is no keyed washer it the stack . How does it hold a setting after a long pull ?
My thoughts are that the stack is more like a spacer than a drag . The cork is doing all the work , going by were the teflons are .
There is a spring in the nut assembly knob for tension . That well is about .380 deep .
This is my approach to have a test spool with cork and carbon fiber drags and can change the cork ring diameter to test different drag ratio`s
First of all, I would like to thank from the bottom of my heart my colleagues who worked on the photos and the answers!
Oldmanjoe, good answers!!! Thanks!
1. Metal washer is keyd washer. It may not be visible in the photo, but if it is large enough, you will see that the inner opening is not round.
2. The dark leather pad between the two white Teflons takes on part of the deformation. There is no friction between the leather pad and the metal parts of spool.
3. "There is a spring in the nut assembly knob for tension." This is the answer regarding pressure regulation.The spring packed inside is responsible for the gradual increase in pressure.
4. The cork is very long lasting. It lasts much longer than carbontex.
5. For diferent drag ratio it is best to experiment with increasing and decreasing the inner diameter of the cork ring. Larger hole diameter = less braking force. ;)
6. In order for compression to occur on a cork pad, enormous pressure is required because it has a large surface area. If I remember correctly, diameter is 53-55 mm. P=Fk/S, (P=pressure on cork, Fk=force from spring in knob, S=area of cork).
7. Also, the cork lies, it is trapped by the inner diameter of the spool, which does not allow its movement, nor deformation. There is probably a very small change in cork thickness due to the action of pressure.This deformation enables better adhesion of cork granules to metal surfaces. This fit increases the coefficient of friction. Increasing friction increases braking torque (force).
8. Since it is a large diameter at which the creation of braking torque is achieved, not even a large force is needed by spring knob. M = Fb * r, (M=bracking torque, Fb=force on the braid, r= half of diametar of the spool).
9. Start up inertia is near zero! I need and i love that!
10. Temperature disipation from cork is on the aluminium spool and on the very biiiiig surface lower stainless steel plate!
11. Because of my bad english and my explanation something about cork drag fly reels, start up inertia, temperature disipation and compresion:
https://midcurrent.com/gear/brake-jobs/ VERY IMPORTANT REVIEW!!!
http://www.bighorntroutshop.com/more-than-you-want-to-know-about-fly-reels/
12. Half bail, I made from sheet of stainless steel with my hand and simple tools. The bearing cups for the SiC line roller were made by a friend on a lathe according to my instructions and measurements.
13. I am an electrical engineer by profession, but I have been working for years as a director of a huge company. I don't think I'm an engineer in my profession anymore. Mechanics is my love! Fishing is my second love! :D :D :D
Please, don't mind my bad English and maybe scanty explanations. In practice this works perfectly!
I would like to add that no matter what type of brake it is (cork or carbotex or something else), it is very important to relieve the pressure after fishing. Cork thus returns to its original state, and also has a positive effect on carbonex and the leather, for example.
I also have state of the art reels like Certate and Stradic FL. I always relieve them, my experience is that this cork brake is better (for my needs) than on the mentioned rolls (carbontex washers).
Their only advantage is that they are much lighter and put braid line lay visualy better! 330N and 331N are much more reliable and long lasting. I had no problems with wind knots with 330N and 331N. Line lay is 3mm under spool border and that is inough!
The appearance of the lens look line lay is not crucial. It is important that there are no gaps in the upper and lower zone of the spool, between spool border and braid..
Very impressed with what you've done here and your english is just fine. Thanks for posting
:) :) Your English and explanations are fine , it stimulates the thinking process .
1. Metal washer is keyd washer. It may not be visible in the photo, but if it is large enough, you will see that the inner opening is not round. Thanks for clearing that up.
9. Start up inertia is near zero! I need and i love that! That is what i am looking for and working at !!
Thanks Swami805! Thank you for your support!
Quote from: oc1 on December 19, 2020, 11:11:21 PM
Quote from: Milan S on December 19, 2020, 06:38:01 AM
No leather, no compression. Just presure.
Not to be argumentative or denigrate a really great project, but I still don't get it. The space between drag washers of all types approaches zero whether there is a little pressure or a lot of pressure. Cork can compress a lot, even carbontex can compress a little over time. The usual way to provide more range (revolutions) on the drag is to use some sort of spring washer like a wavy washer or Belleville.
-s
Oc1,
The knob has a thread that fixes the spool, but at the same time it tightens the spring that is in the knob.
I will try to use the following photos to explain how the knob works ...
1. The front of the knob. A small thread can also be seen.
(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=10KuYfXV_gBYtQosNglKAZZihtlxGODLD)
2.The back of the knob. See spring and part of thread.
(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1BjxRmh4fYlAJNP3CbYVY2wTb1ztHLeUb)
3. The appearance of the spring that exists at the factory in the knob.
(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=16Ew9_kKA1qAEJa98DDItpIgRMCdirNll)
4. Knob and spring from another knob ... :)
(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=19cp2AFFuUXdGDXwtxE3ZnQ-KeDsQa-f2)
When you tighten the knob, the spring gradually doses the pressure to the spool.
I hope I was able to show how the knob works. Many are not aware that there is a spring in the some knob.
I promised some more new photos for my dear colleagues earlier ...
331N insane beauty!!!
(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1qHwaDWYvwcDLFvQIemwmmQ-DDf3rseTG)
(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=10Kz207Jh97pEGcckRJZvToZxfCzYnfUI)
(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1Nb0FiLmzX6Vz4oS63e2pcwKP5M6MTyFZ)
(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1Ar5dBH-28gpptphgRlHW4un2oKcucfb7)
(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1_Nq9jn4rwRfF_zIdRZBn-MP6GFu9Z3Ws)
(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=140uPtJChF_obO7lKyXous4EtaMnYGrDZ)
(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1xzplbBsD1S7G_ThZ33RhAQxTIbqPwz77)
(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1p_GA8n1QBufcxOrNMJ8EIYm3bIcZG15l)
(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1bLa8MqW0n5oBrPAvNeYeAEhIjdDkcQt0)
Oldmanjoe,
I am always there to help my colleagues. I hope that this old/new project with 331N will be just as interesting as the previous one. ;)
Caution!Be careful, half bail on 330N is much better and more functional than this one on 331N !!! That arched part on it is not good because the braid wants to slip if you are careless when you pick up braid. On the 330N, that never happens. My design mistake. :D :D :D
The half bail design on the my 330N modification is one I will always use. Half bail design on the my 331N modification is bad. Caution!
And of course we can be more elegant and lighter. It was done in a hurry because of my desire to try it on the water.
You are doing some excellent work on the Quick upgrades, Milan —
If there ever might be any new old stock parts you need — please let me know so that I might help.
Best, Fred
That a beautiful reel with a lot of attention to detail. The cork drag will last for years when properly used. As we all know Cork has been used as a drag material for many years. The Fin Nor reels used Cork.
You just need to start another build so we can tag along.
Congrats on your work..!!
Keith
Thanks a lot Fred!
I do these upgrades to suit the best ever made reels (DAM 330 all series...) to my needs. If something goes wrong during use, I will remember you and the opportunity to get to a new part. Despite the extreme quality of the 330 series, there is still wear and tear that accumulates during use.
I was already coming to the situation that the sliding bronze bearings were worn out and that an unacceptable gap appeared between the shaft of the main gear and the bronze bearing. Amazing, isn't it ...
I am aware that these gadgets are quite indestructible, and that I personally will one day not be able to fish anymore. I hope that someone might one day make a museum like this (DAM Quick reels) and that I will be able to send some of my reels.
handi2,
That cork, even if it becomes unusable, is replaced with a new one in 15 minutes. And that was one of the reasons for her choice.
I'm glad you like these works. I will try to be even more interesting and better. Thanks a lot for the support!
Quote from: Milan S on December 20, 2020, 05:26:11 PM
(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1p_GA8n1QBufcxOrNMJ8EIYm3bIcZG15l)
Wow this looks very good. How did you polish the body? Did you use clear coat after polishing?
Colleague,
First, I removed the factory paint from the side covers with acetone.
After that I use sandpaper.
The granulations I used were: 800, 1200, 1500 and 2000.
At 331N I stopped with a 2000 grit sandpaper. A uniform matte surface is obtained. No fingerprints remain on it. :)
At 330N I also used a polishing paste applied to a greased cloth. Fingerprints remain on it, but it is shiny and looks as if it is anodized. ;)
It is sanded and polished by hand.
Since I use them for freshwater fishing, there was no need for special protection.
After fishing, I wipe the polished surface with a fine and dry cloth.
I very rarely do that with a very lite greased cloth, usually after lubrication.
Efforts should be made to keep the cloths clean and free of grains of sand that would scratch the surface.
Friends, I can't solve the problem of the non-reversible (superstoper ball bearing) brake. I haven't dealt with it too much, but it's time...
Does anyone have any suggestions? it is about 330N and 331N.
Quote from: Milan S on December 25, 2022, 10:02:18 AMFriends, I can't solve the problem of the non-reversible (superstoper ball bearing) brake. I haven't dealt with it too much, but it's time...
Does anyone have any suggestions? it is about 330N and 331N.
Well the 331n you have two places to work with , the crank side can be made for a one way bearing ,were as the 330n you pretty much only have the rotor main bearing you can change .
What don`t you like about the stock anti reverse , it`s fast lock ups and close ratchet notches with very little play ?
I wish there was no sound. Some types of fishing require absolute silence. Even some of my colleagues ask for silence.
:D
Would it be possible to dedicate this reel to left hand retrieve only, and rig up a 1 way bearing on the back side of the main gear?
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on December 27, 2022, 02:19:33 PMWould it be possible to dedicate this reel to left hand retrieve only, and rig up a 1 way bearing on the back side of the main gear?
I am going to post pictures to show the difference between 330n and 331n were as the handle is concerned . The 331 can go both ways .
i will come back to this in a later post .
Quote from: Milan S on December 27, 2022, 01:33:54 PMI wish there was no sound. Some types of fishing require absolute silence. Even some of my colleagues ask for silence.
:D
OK so I picked up both reels and spun them . The 331 was much quieter , so i opened it up to see why the big difference in sound . Simple I had greased everything for saltwater use and did not do the same for 330 . Now that I did it is much quieter .
I will come back to this in a little wile , i need to find some old information on who may have done one way bearing and their findings , i am pretty sure it was done on a 270 reel and if my memory is rite a 330 with a home made handle housing .
I posted this somewhere on here. Rick Champagne built me a 706 I gave to my grandson. He used two anti reverse bearings both on the pinion gear. One up top where the 3/8x7/8x9/32 bearing goes and another on the other end of the pinion gear.
The reel still has its dog in place
Quote from: oldmanjoe on December 27, 2022, 06:04:56 PMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on December 27, 2022, 02:19:33 PMWould it be possible to dedicate this reel to left hand retrieve only, and rig up a 1 way bearing on the back side of the main gear?
I am going to post pictures to show the difference between 330n and 331n were as the handle is concerned . The 331 can go both ways .
i will come back to this in a later post .
I should have been more clear that I meant between the main and the body of the reel. But I love this thread so far.
Since I have the tabs open ,I will post the pages .
https://www.bocabearings.com/products/bearing-and-ball-types/one-way-clutch-bearings?ProductType=0
This is type would be used in the head/ main bearing , but not small enough .
https://www.bocabearings.com/products/bearing-and-ball-types/one-way-clutch-bearings/csk-sprag-type-one-way-clutch-ball-bearing-(csk)?loadseries=true&ProductType=0
And this type for the tail bushing and handle side .
https://www.bocabearings.com/products/bearing-and-ball-types/one-way-clutch-bearings/stainless-steel-needle-one-way-clutch-bearings?loadseries=true&ProductType=0
This is one of the reel done with a one way bearing ,but a lots of picture are not there any more .
https://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/431098-extreme-tuning-dam-quick-550/
My wish was for 330N and 331N. I can't exactly sit the dimensions of the ball bearing in the rotor. The problem is the dimensions of typical non-return bearings. In addition, the inner cylinder of the non-return bearing should be fitted on the pinion itself. The pinion itself is not sufficiently hardened in heat treatment to withstand braking without surface deformation. After a while the rotation would become rough.
Perhaps Fred can provide the dimensions of the factory ball bearing in the rotor head for the 330N?
Quote from: Milan S on December 28, 2022, 06:33:43 AMPerhaps Fred can provide the dimensions of the factory ball bearing in the rotor head for the 330N?
Glad to —-
Will measure one tomorrow morning.
Best, Fred
I have already measured the main bearing , it is 8x19x6 mm.
The smallest sprag bearing i have found is 8x22x9 . there is not enough casting to make this work .
Than i took a look at the handle . The handle shaft has a step in it . Bottom one in the picture . This could be replaced with a shaft from a quick ,but the shaft is not a true 7mm it`s more like 6.80 mm,
Than there is the main shaft and it has a step in the end of the shaft .
Thanks Oldmeanjoe for measuring.
Everything seems to me that there will have to be a more complicated solution here...
I have some other ideas but they need time to be developed and tested. A solution with a non-returnable roller bearing would be the most elegant, but the question is whether it can be simply implemented.
If there are any other suggestions I will be very happy to consider them together.