Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Spinning Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Abu Garcia/Garcia/Mitchell => Mitchell => Topic started by: Gfish on August 11, 2019, 05:45:17 AM

Title: Mitchell Garcia 302 Spool Screw
Post by: Gfish on August 11, 2019, 05:45:17 AM
Tryin to think(dangerous, I know...) of the best sequence of methods to get this screw out. Someone(s) obviously buggered the slot pretty bad. Not gonna turn with any screwdriver I have. Access to the drags, rotor cup and pinion bearing(bushing?) look like they depend on removing it. Tryin not to damage the spool. This is a mid 50's reel, so parts may be hard to come by. Whadda you think? Remember, a sequence from gentle to radical brute force.
Any other info., opinions on this reel welcome.
Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Mitchell Garcia 302 Spool Screw
Post by: Crow on August 11, 2019, 02:31:48 PM
I can't tell from the pic...and I'm not familiar with the reel....if the screw head sits "proud"of the spool, or is counter sunk, but, my first step would be to "clean up"the slot, as best I could ....try to get the edges of the slot back to being 'parallel ', even at the expense of making it wider....then use a GOOD screwdriver (nice 'square " edges, wide enough to use the whole slot.....a "hollow ground" style would be my first choice), with good, firm "down pressure", and a little 'snap" , when you turn it.
2nd try (assuming the plastic spool will take a moderate amount of heat) would be to use an electric soldering iron to heat the screw head....just know "when to quit"....then , rapidly cool it....a can of "Freeze", ice water, whatever you can think of that will cool it...quickly.....then, repeat step 1.
3rd try would be to drill a very small hole into the "exact" center of the screw.....hole should be about 1/3 the diameter of the screw.....trying to get "through" the head, and into the actual "tread area" of the screw...then, re drill, using a drill the exact diameter of the screw shank....that should...with a bit of twisting of the head....allow the screw head to seperate from the shank, then, pull the spool off, and use pliers to get on the shank of the screw.
Title: Re: Mitchell Garcia 302 Spool Screw
Post by: foakes on August 11, 2019, 03:40:21 PM
Few simple tips, Greg —

You are right, the drag stack keeper screw must come off in order to get to the ridiculously over-complicated drag assembly.  

Since this was obviously boogered by someone before you — it is going to be a little tougher — but not a problem.

There are 2 or 3 types of screws for these 302's — some have a narrow slot, some have a wider coin slot, like yours.

For these, I take a typical Penn wrench like we all have — add a wooden file handle — then grind off the end square.  This is good for any coin type slots — and also bail screws on spinners.  Just a dollar for these handles at the hardware store.

For the skinny slot screws — a good quality screwdriver with a grippy handle is better.

The spool will come off along with the spool axle — if you release the keepers inside the gear case.

I think, since you will need a new screw anyway — both for future servicing, and cosmetics...just cut a deeper slot with a Dremel — heat the head of the screw with a high wattage soldering iron — or a small butane torch followed by freeze spray.  The spool is metal, so no worries.  Then use the right screwdriver to back out the screw.

When you get the spindle/arbor cleaned up with 1500 Emory paper and oil — it will be smooth.

Also, when you get the drag stack opened up — you will see if anything else is needed.  There are about 12-13 parts in there that are frequently subject to rust or salt encrusted fusing.

Plus, there is the tiny, hidden, "Demon Key" that is easy to lose on these — that allows the rotor to engage with the bearing assembly.  Easy to lose this — or not know about it.

Once you figure out what you need — I have any parts necessary, including the goobered screw — just let us know — and I will send them over — N/C.

I think that 90% of the Saltwater Mitchell's will have issues with salt fusing or rust — at least in the 300 or 400 I have done over the years.

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: Mitchell Garcia 302 Spool Screw
Post by: Midway Tommy on August 11, 2019, 06:10:18 PM
I've found that making specialty tools works well in situations like this. The blade thickness and taper on store bought screw drivers usually buggers ultra tight and corroded screw heads. I usually find some old cheap screwdriver I have laying around to make these utensils. A high quality screwdriver isn't all that important in these cases. It the tool fails, which I have yet to have happen, I can always easily make another.

I file tips to the use they're suited for. Convex for concave slots like bail plate, drag knob, side plate, etc., screws, or center slotted for specialty screws like ABU bail nuts and many other European bail or handle nuts. I file the width straight up the blade a ways for their intended use.

(https://alantani.com/gallery/28/17004_11_08_19_10_37_22_288981130.jpeg)

I also file down the taper so that the tip fits correctly and fairly snug in the slot. Tapered blade tips bugger more screw heads than anything else. If the tip fits correctly in the slot most screws will, with persistence and patience, be persuaded to break loose.

(https://alantani.com/gallery/28/17004_11_08_19_10_37_27_289011893.jpeg)

If it were mine I would, as Fred suggested, remove the main shaft with spool attached. I would then secure the shaft in a vice and, with a correctly adapted screwdriver, work the screw back and forth pushing with a lot of down pressure. Sometimes the tightening motion will be just the right movement to break the friction loose.
   
Title: Re: Mitchell Garcia 302 Spool Screw
Post by: George6308 on August 12, 2019, 12:03:24 AM
If one does not feel like making these special screwdrivers than Brownell's sells a set of special drivers for gunsmiths that works.
Title: Re: Mitchell Garcia 302 Spool Screw
Post by: Gfish on August 12, 2019, 03:42:41 PM
Thanks for your replies, guys. Gonna get some freeze spray, and a file handle. Surprisingly, Tommy, the tool I made from your earlier post, that got the Cardinal 4 line roller nut off, fits the 302 also.
Probably gonna haveta grind down the dremel wheel diameter, sos I don't gouge the drag adjusting nut to badly, when I deepen the screw slot.
Got a soldering iron and the Penn wrench.
Crow, drilling holes scares me, especially without a drill press. Hopefully it won't come to that.
Fred, may take you up on your offer, do you also have any drag adjusting nuts in case I ruin mine?
Ok, more latter as I get to it! Thanks again fishergents.
Title: Re: Mitchell Garcia 302 Spool Screw
Post by: foakes on August 12, 2019, 05:08:41 PM
Yeah, there are a couple different drag knobs, Greg —

But I have them all.

Tommy's trick when loosening a goobered and stubborn screw by tightening it first, is one old-timer mechanics have used for years.  After a guy with the wrong screwdriver — who did not use enough downward pressure messed up the leading edge of the slot — the clockwise edge will most times have just enough bite to just break loose the fusing seal so the screw can be removed counter-clockwise with proper downward pressure while secured in a wood-faced vise.

Just let us know what is needed when you get it fully disassembled.

Best,

Fred
Title: Re: Mitchell Garcia 302 Spool Screw
Post by: oc1 on August 12, 2019, 08:55:48 PM
 When you grind the screw slot with a dremel it will heat up the screw without need of a soldering iron.  So, shape the screwdriver first then grind the screw to fit it.
-steve
Title: Re: Mitchell Garcia 302 Spool Screw
Post by: Gfish on August 12, 2019, 09:14:48 PM
Yeah, didn't think a that. That's why you're the Professor. Maybe I can decrease the grind wheel diameter first, by doing it that way.
Title: Re: Mitchell Garcia 302 Spool Screw
Post by: Gfish on August 12, 2019, 10:28:19 PM
It worked! The combo. of heat, inox MX3, and new found torque, did it.

This is IMO, a very well made reel. One design flaw would be all metal drag washers, with a metal screw at the top on a saltwater reel. Water ingress/corrosion CITY! What were they thinkin? There isn't even a seal washer of some type on the screw head. Hmmm...

The drag knob and screw are still usable. But I'd never come up a way to seal it. Will send pm about those parts Fred.
Title: Re: Mitchell Garcia 302 Spool Screw
Post by: Crow on August 12, 2019, 10:44:17 PM
Good job !! We knew you could do it !
Title: Re: Mitchell Garcia 302 Spool Screw
Post by: Gfish on August 12, 2019, 11:24:05 PM
Thanks Crow!
"Rediculously over-complicated drag assembly"---from Fred's 1st post---RIGHT!
Indeed there is some corrosion of the aluminium at the bottom of the drag stack hole(2nd picture).
Title: Re: Mitchell Garcia 302 Spool Screw
Post by: Crow on August 12, 2019, 11:56:59 PM
The "on board" schematic is a good thing ! I guess even they thought it was "over complicated " !!
Title: Re: Mitchell Garcia 302 Spool Screw
Post by: PacRat on August 13, 2019, 01:30:47 AM
Looks like time to take out the garbage and replace it with good stuff. It looks like you can ditch that star type washer in the middle of the stack and get rid of the eared c-washer next to it. Then put 4 greased carbontex washers between the keyed and eared washers. There's also what looks like a regular stainless washer that you'll may need for a spacer depending on how thick your carbontex are. If you need the stainless washer to take up space, you might try to get one more greased carbontex then the stainless, then the spring and the other junk. This might help keep water out...also put a lot of grease on the spring and screw and you might be good to go.
I think I have one of these out in the garage and this post might inspire me to look at the drag configuration.
-Mike
Title: Re: Mitchell Garcia 302 Spool Screw
Post by: Ron Jones on August 13, 2019, 03:23:20 AM
Easiest way to fix a 302 stack is to call Bryan Young and get a 5 stack for  a 155.

The Man
Title: Re: Mitchell Garcia 302 Spool Screw
Post by: Gfish on August 13, 2019, 08:14:54 AM
Note: the drag stack is as I first removed it. But there is one eared washer outta place; the one in the middle of all the others, belongs on the right end as it goes into the spool first. 

The "star type washer" is a keyed clicker and the eared spring lookin washer next to it is actually the click pawl. This should be fun to play around with when I get some 6-155's. I think I might be able to get ridda the keyed washer all by itself on the left side...
Also that eared-spring-click-pawl washer keeps the spool from turning backwards. Why?
Title: Re: Mitchell Garcia 302 Spool Screw
Post by: Midway Tommy on August 13, 2019, 05:49:45 PM
Quote from: Gfish on August 13, 2019, 08:14:54 AM
Also that eared-spring-click-pawl washer keeps the spool from turning backwards. Why?

Most of the older style reels had a click & dog system, especially those incorporated one way or another into the spool, so that there is some sort of stopping device to keep it from spinning backwards. It generally makes the drag and anti-reverse function more efficiently with out wedging or getting bound up.