I have been a bit quiet on the reel projects and anodizing front the last couple of months – not due a lack of interest or ideas - I've been setting up and learning to use a mini-mill. After tossing up whether to get a lathe or a mill, I ended up buying a mill with a rotary table & chuck that will hopefully still do some basic circular work.
I'm not impatient but step one was to unpack the mill, clean and oil it, then try to turn it into a lathe ;D The main part of this mild steel cylinder is ~45mm with a 20mm long section of ~50mm dia at the end that I removed
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_31_08_19_6_46_31_29176927.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_23_09_19_5_23_18_29426396.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_31_08_19_6_48_54_291782497.jpeg)
Step two – try using a boring head as a fly-cutter to face surfaces;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_31_08_19_6_45_34_291741400.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_31_08_19_6_45_52_291751999.jpeg)
Step three - start making tooling and stuff while getting familiar with the machine;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_23_09_19_5_26_28_29431766.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_23_09_19_5_26_48_294321477.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_23_09_19_5_27_43_29434721.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_23_09_19_5_27_22_294331116.jpeg)
There are a few other bits and pieces that I haven't photographed yet - there seems to be no end to the tooling you need (or want)
Mike
Looking good !! Folks always think that a mill...or a lathe..is an expensive machine, but the real expense is all the tooling and fixtures that you need to USE that machine !
Quote from: Crow on September 23, 2019, 01:06:42 PM
Looking good !! Folks always think that a mill...or a lathe..is an expensive machine, but the real expense is all the tooling and fixtures that you need to USE that machine !
Yeah, the mill cost around AUD $1200 delivered and I'm getting close to twice that for the rotary table and tooling.
Mike
Nice Mike, that tool got to the right person, can't wait to see what you come up with.
Sal
You know I'm jealous much! Sky is the limit now, and those Pop-eye arms will fade from the lack of filing! :D
Great stuff, Mike. I can't think of better hands. You and that rotab are going to discover a whole new world together.
.
This should be good!
Congratulations on the upgraded life.
-steve
Thanks guys. Robert, the rotab is what tipped the balance in favour of getting a mill. 'Normal' milling stuff like slotting, square/angle cutting, facing stock etc is really usefull but the circular capabilities of the rotab really caught my imagination - I'm looking forward to experimenting with it in both the horizontal and verticle positions. The 6" table and 5" chuck are possibly a bit large for the mill, there is not a lot of room above the chuck when they are mounted horiontally but with a few collets that fit the MT3 spindle I am able to save around 50mm travel by not using the ER-32 collet holder. I haven't mounted it vertically yet.
Chris, the arms will still get plenty of exercise unless I can fit power feeds to the table and head - particulary raising the head.
Sal and Sheridan - I hope I can come up with some interesting projects although there is a lot to learn first.
Steve, I'm not blaming you but I started thinking about breaking rank with the hand tool brigade when you bought a lathe. ;D
For now, the next step will be to get some sharp tweezers (and use a brush to clear the cuttings)
Mike
Quote from: mhc on September 25, 2019, 11:31:59 AM
Steve, I'm not blaming you but I started thinking about breaking rank with the hand tool brigade when you bought a lathe. ;D
Milling on the Taig micro-lathe is not what I hoped it would be despite getting a Z-axis milling attachment for the carriage. So, I bought a little German-made Proxxon MF70 micro-mill. Spent about a tenth as much money as you did but the Proxxon has really severe limitations. It's not much more than a toy. It is definitely in the micro category because it is under-powered and the collets will not accept anything larger than 1/8 inch (3.2 mm). But, at least I am closing in on the ability to drill a small hole where it is supposed to be.
The best thing I have bought lately is a big spray bottle of Corrosion-X. The little lathe and mill have no corrosion protection and will flash rust overnight in our humidity unless I really keep up with it.
-steve
On ya Mike! I know you will have a ton of fun.
Greg
It's been a few weeks and I haven't started on working on reel parts yet. I'm still getting a feel for the machine by making tools, and learning there is a lot to learn, especially when you don't have any experience with lathes or mills. Using the rotab in the horizontal position seems to work well for straight dia or vertically decreasing stepped diameters. This is a part I'm making from ~25mm or 1" dia steel for a tail stock, to use with the rotab when it's mounted vertically;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_17_10_19_2_57_03_297801738.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_17_10_19_2_57_18_297812228.jpeg)
To 'turn' more features on the parts I made a couple of tool holders for cheap indexable lathe tools and a frame to hold them. (It has been a long time since I've fired up the stick welder and my skill level hasn't improved by not using it :));
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_17_10_19_2_59_20_297821105.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_17_10_19_2_59_58_29784527.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_17_10_19_3_01_19_297852093.jpeg)
It works well taking light cuts but the finish so far is pretty rough - maybe when I know more about cutting angles, speed and feed it might improve, although the setup is not as rigid as a lathe so it won't get the same quality of finish. Using the parting tool was a pretty steep learning curve, there were some anxious and noisy moments at first. After a bit of research (thanks to a Joe Pieczynski You Tube on parting tool basics) - I think I won in the end, I only broke one carbide insert and managed to cut to the full depth capability of the tool.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_17_10_19_3_04_22_297861685.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_17_10_19_3_04_57_29788454.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_17_10_19_3_04_48_297871188.jpeg)
Mounting the rotab vertically was the next trial;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_17_10_19_3_11_49_29789359.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_17_10_19_3_12_24_297901559.jpeg)
Next up is cutting a tapered tip for the shaft and making the upper part of the tail stock, then the base and then a few reel parts that won't be used on the mill.
Mike
And so it begins :)
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on October 17, 2019, 11:18:20 AM
And so it begins :)
;D Yeah, it's turned into a rabbit hole already.
Yes Mike,with your imagination, you will get on top of it, just cant wate to see what you make with it, cheers Don.
I'm envious of both your equipment...AND your skill in using it !
Thanks guys, Crow I've wanted a mill for ages but couldn't justify it to myself - until I recently realised if I didn't get one, I wouldn't get one and it would end up on the 'should've done' list.
At the risk of boring people - a few more photos of practicing with the mini mill. Using the head tilted to 30 deg and the rotab mounted horizontally to cut a 60 deg tip on the dead center shaft;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_18_10_19_3_24_47_29791155.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_18_10_19_3_25_04_297911479.jpeg)
The body of the head was pretty straight forward, drilling a 16mm hole for the shaft and a brass end piece to hold the handle in place - I screwed the 3mm thick 316 stainless retaining plate to a piece of sacrificial aluminium to extend a 12mm drilled hole with an end mill;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_18_10_19_3_25_22_297942418.jpeg)
To tap the dead center and handle pieces for a M10 thread, I centered the pieces using the spindle mounted test indicator, drilled then tapped manually with the head out of gear;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_18_10_19_3_25_50_29795364.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_18_10_19_3_26_08_297961612.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_18_10_19_3_26_26_29797729.jpeg)
Used 6mm and 3mm end mills to mill a shallow slot for a locking screw on one side of the shaft and a stepped slot from 6 to 3mm wide in the opposite side for a stepped screw to stop the shaft from rotating with the handle;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_18_10_19_3_27_15_297992477.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/7995_18_10_19_5_36_31_29800668.jpeg)
This thread isn't directly linked to reels, but I thought it might help anyone thinking about getting a machine - I will move on to reel parts soon once I get more comfortable with it.
Mike
Way above my paygrade but well interested to see this! ;)
John
Yep - like a duck takes to water :D
A few photos to finish my 1st year apprentice project - the tailstock. The mill has a fairly small table and my 6" rotab mounted with a 5" chuck takes up a lot of the length - so I designed a canter levered stand for the tailstock to gain a couple of inches between centers;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/7995_09_11_19_6_53_57_30264374.jpeg)
First step was to center the rotab (with a brass clamp plate I made from salvaged scrap) under the spindle;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/7995_09_11_19_6_54_27_302652472.jpeg)
Clamp the piece of 10mm (~3/8") flat bar in place;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/7995_09_11_19_6_55_44_302672468.jpeg)
Rough out the curved sections with a roughing mill;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/7995_09_11_19_6_54_59_302661194.jpeg)
Finish with an end mill and move the piece to cut the small reverse curve on the foot;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/7995_09_11_19_6_55_48_30268978.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/7995_09_11_19_7_13_17_30273656.jpeg)
Test fit;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/7995_09_11_19_6_56_36_30269609.jpeg)
Cleaned up and ready to cold blue;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/7995_09_11_19_6_57_20_302701053.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/7995_09_11_19_6_58_17_302712131.jpeg)
It's probably a bit more complicated than it needed to be, but the plan was to get used to the mill by experimenting making tooling and stuff before I tackled reel stuff.
Mike
That's super-good work !! If I lived close to you...I'd be making a "pest" of myself !! :D
Beautiful work on that tailstock, Michael!
Vest,
Fred
Quote from: foakes on November 09, 2019, 03:28:24 PM
Beautiful work on that tailstock, Michael!
X2. It's really slick.
-steve
Beautiful work Mike!
Apprenticeship passed!
Bravo Mike!!
Wow Mike! That looks amazing!
I believe you can make anything, once you set your mind to it.
Excellent job!
Sal
Nice work Mike, thanks for taking us along, your foresight is above & beyond, anything I could dream of, cheers Don.
Thanks guys, these little machines make working metal pretty easy compared to the drill press and files that I have been using. A digital read out for the X Y & Z axes would make things even easier - for now I'm using the scales on the table winding handles to measure travel but it's easy to lose count and get lost, that's why I'm still scribing the layout to make sure I'm in the right place.
You wouldn't be a pest Crow, you might help me focus on making stuff that isn't for the mill! I made a table mount vise stop yesterday (not the clamp) - it should be handy :-\ :)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/7995_11_11_19_1_25_23_30311312.jpeg)
Hey Chris, you can be my tech assessor anytime - you are much tougher on your own work!
Thanks Sal, but I am nowhere near making anything I want - for a start there's a lot of stuff that needs a lathe......
Here's the tailstock with it a couple of applications of Birchwood and Casey 'Super Blue' for protection. The blue is a bit blotchy in places and I considered re-doing it but I haven't used cold blue before and I'm not sure it would get any better. I don't think I'll notice after it gets covered in chips and cutting oil ;).
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/7995_11_11_19_12_04_22_30309560.jpeg)
Thanks again for the kind words.
Mike
A few photos of the tailstock in use, supporting a 10mm steel rod while I cut it down to ~ 4mm for a small surface gauge scribe;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/7995_17_11_19_1_16_14_305821432.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/7995_17_11_19_1_16_53_305842292.jpeg)
The machine head tilted 20 deg to cut the shoulder;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/7995_17_11_19_1_17_08_30585355.jpeg)
And 10 deg to cut the tip;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/7995_17_11_19_1_17_25_305861702.jpeg)
The bent scribe, brass base and 12mm post waiting for a swivel holder;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/7995_17_11_19_1_17_42_305872087.jpeg)
I think I'm almost ready to start on reels :)
Mike
I think you are too Mike. I had no idea yours is a combo lathe/milling machine.
Possibilities are endless with those, especially in your case, making your own gadgets.
I always get excited to see what your next projector will be Ur doesn't really make any difference in what it is, even if it's just a piece of metal that has been shaped by you.
It is still very exciting to me.
Keep up your great work Mike.., I love all that you do here.
Sal
Thanks Sal, I'll try to keep up the distractions for you :)
The close-up photos of the lathe chuck makes it look like a combo machine but it's a plain mini-mill with a chuck mounted on a rotary table set up vertically - the chuck is rotated manually by winding the table. It's not designed for 'turning' and doesn't do it very well. A better view of the set up;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/7995_17_11_19_4_07_31_305881790.jpeg)
The 5" chuck is too big for my set up - I was thinking of side plates and frames when I bought it but now realise there are other ways to hold stuff besides a chuck. Having said that, it does work OK with larger dia short pieces when mounted flat.
Learning is half the fun ;)
Mike
I'm glad you've showed me that pic. I'm on the fence about purchasing another milling machine, most talked me into buying two separate units, but it gets expensive.
I'm already into $3000 with bits and other tooling.
I'm thinking on purchasing a vertical 6" rotary table as your showing, of course mine would be reversed.
I actually had it in my shopping basket and they still keep sending me messages to complete my purchase, but I've been undecided.
It will surely work for the small stuff I make, but I know it would be a pain to mount and unmount.
If I go that rout, it will definitely save me $2000 I don't have right now, so the little extra work might be worthwhile.
Thanks Mike!
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on November 17, 2019, 12:04:08 PM
I'm glad you've showed me that pic. I'm on the fence about purchasing another milling machine, most talked me into buying two separate units, but it gets expensive.
I'm already into $3000 with bits and other tooling.
I'm thinking on purchasing a vertical 6" rotary table as your showing, of course mine would be reversed.
I actually had it in my shopping basket and they still keep sending me messages to complete my purchase, but I've been undecided.
It will surely work for the small stuff I make, but I know it would be a pain to mount and unmount.
If I go that rout, it will definitely save me $2000 I don't have right now, so the little extra work might be worthwhile.
Thanks Mike!
Sal
You can do some stuff with a rotary table on a mill that you can on a lathe, but its still a far cry from what a true lathe can do. I went down the multipurpose machine road once. Returned it broken after a week and got a dedicated mill and lathe. Neither have to be extravagant, but in both case rigidity matters. Get the stiffest machines you can afford. The rest can some in time, but as mason/stoneworker, Im sure you can appreciate the idea of a solid foundation.
Adam's given Sal good advice, single purpose machines are the only option if you are serious (it's always good to get tips/advice from experienced guys that are in the game and know what they are talking about) but until I have access to a lathe, if I need round stuff I'll need to persevere with experimenting on my mini mill.
I wanted an alignment pin to roughly center an ER32 collet stand with the spindle so I tried turning the end of a 20 mm dia piece of ground 4140 steel down to 16 mm to fit the largest MT3 collet I (will) have. Keeping Adam's advice about rigidity, and similar advice from Chris (Rothmar2) some time ago - I tried to keep everything as short as I could. First was to centre the spindle with the cutting tool mounted in a vice;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/7995_19_12_19_7_11_25_310811886.jpeg)
Taking fine cuts around .2 mm from memory it seemed to cut OK but the chips were getting pretty hot as you can see by the blue color;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/7995_19_12_19_7_12_15_31135639.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/7995_19_12_19_7_12_01_311342096.jpeg)
The tool tilted 45 deg to chamfer on the corners;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/7995_19_12_19_7_12_19_311362323.jpeg)
And the finished pin;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/7995_19_12_19_7_12_48_311371593.jpeg)
This came about after I had started modifying a couple of side plates using the brass mounting plate on the rotab;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/7995_19_12_19_9_24_10_311401416.jpeg)
It worked OK but after moving the mill table a couple of time, I got lost and found myself pulling everything off the rotab to re-center it and then the mounting plate/work, under the spindle;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/7995_19_12_19_9_24_29_311411193.jpeg)
To cut down the steps to re-center, I got hold of an ER32 collet stand and made a holding plate with a 20 mm stub to fit a 20 mm collet held in the stand;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/7995_19_12_19_9_38_35_311421658.jpeg)
Used a roughing end mill to remove most of the material;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/7995_19_12_19_9_39_15_31142476.jpeg)
Then cleaned up the stub with a carbide end mill;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/7995_19_12_19_9_39_15_31143139.jpeg)
And levelled the top with a fly-cutter;
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/7995_19_12_19_9_39_36_311451486.jpeg)
I haven't used it yet, but re-centering the work and table should be a single operation - I hope.
As you can see I have started working on a reel and will start a post soon before I forget what I've done so far.
Thanks
Mike
Mike it looks like everything you are machineing on your mill is dry. Try using an atomizer attachmant to spray a fine mist of soluable oil/water mix. It will keep the work and tool cooler plus the cutting tools will stay sharper longer. A 20 to 1 mix of water to oil will work good. Plus the mixture also acts as a rust inhibitor on the machinery. Rudy
Good point Rudy, I do have soluble oil in a spray bottle but probably don't use it enough. I had a quick look on line and there are some cheap venturi type spray systems available (starting around AU $10)
I've got an air compressor so it wont cost much to try one - thanks for the idea.
Mike
Yes Mike, Adam has helped me in many ways, that man knows his stuff and as you we are lucky to have him with us.
Keep the projects coming, you just don't find better entertainment.
Sal