Just scored a first version full bail CAP, it was in a small lot of Mitchell reels with bad photos and listed as a Mitchell 304. It only has the word CAP and made in france on the body, the internals are the planametric gears, and has all metal parts. So far it appears to work fine with the exception of the spool clicker. Looking at the 53 and 54 schematics on the Mitchell museum site, I'm not sure if the spring is right. If any one has one of these spools with the words SERRAGE and C.A.P on top a photo of the bottom would be greatly appreciated.
Here is a link to a page that has info on the evolution of the CAP, Mitchell CAP and Mitchell 304 family of reels, it differs some from Mitchell museum info, but was an interesting read
http://www.mitchellcap.info/index.html#changes
When I get the parts clean I'll post photos of the reel and it's assembly.
I'll be following this post out of curiosity. All my 304 are Mitchell's 6th version, probably made after 1967. I found a pic of the top of your spool on the Mitchell Museum site. http://www.mitchellreelmuseum.com/index.php/category/471
Festus
That's the top of my reel, I'm hoping Fred, Midway Tommy, or somebody has one of these spools and can show me the bottom. I wish I had a 304 to compare this reel to. I'll probably be asking you alot of questions as I go.
Are the 304 drive gear and anti reverse both aluminum? On this real the a/r is stainless.
Quote from: TRS on October 20, 2019, 01:02:21 AM
Festus
That's the top of my reel, I'm hoping Fred, Midway Tommy, or somebody has one of these spools and can show me the bottom. I wish I had a 304 to compare this reel to. I'll probably be asking you alot of questions as I go.
Are the 304 drive gear and anti reverse both aluminum? On this real the a/r is stainless.
I don't have access to a camera at the moment, so I borrowed a pic from Mo's 306 post. The bottom of the 304 spool is similar to this 306 spool. And the a/r is aluminum.
Just got home from a dinner party down in Fresno --
I have plenty (dozens) of new 304/305 spools still in their original boxes -- 40+ 304/305 reels -- and about a half dozen CAPS.
Some of my CAPS have the "pillar arbored spools".
Also have plenty of new clicker ratchet springs.
I will pull some out tomorrow morning -- but a photo of yours would be helpful -- since there are evolutionary differences -- but it should be easy enough to figure out.
Best,
Fred
Fred
here is the bottom of my reel, it may be a combination of things, the tip of the clicker is well worn, the fiber washer seems thin, and that spring doesn't look like the one on the 53 or 54 schematics at the Mitchell museum. The spool has a slot from top to bottom that goes all the way through, the top has an aluminum plate held on by two very tiny Phillips head screws and has the words C.A.P. and SERRAGE
Here is the side view of the spool
Was up late, and discovered that the Mitchell museum is actually on two different sites, mitchell museum.com and mitchellreels.ourboard.org. The information available is different between the two site, not sure if it's on purpose or due to browser/OS issues.
The second one had a picture of the bottom of my spool, the clicker on mine was upside down and backwards according to the picture. It had been this way along time, judging by the clicker tip wear. When I changed it it got worse, I think the problem may be due to a combination of factors.
The spool is noticeably concave, perhaps caused by the drag being left too tight for long period
The axle assembly, shown as one piece on the 1954 schematics, has a lot of movement in the stack containing the spool clicker, washers, and break spring. The break spring appears almost flat. The assembly is held in place by a tapered drift pin.
The fibre drag washer is very thin.
There were at least (6) versions of the little round body Mitchells -- plus variations within those series, Tom --
The nice thing is -- as a rule, many parts are a standardized fit.
The spool, for instance, will fit most of the round bodied reels.
Here are a couple of "newer" (late 50's, early 60's) spools that will fit any reel in this crate of CAPS, 304, and 305.
Also, you can use the original clicker, or the simpler upgrade clicker. The pivot post is in the exact position on all spools -- and the clicker & ratchet mechanisms work equally well with both. Easy to change out -- 2 minute job.
Here I am showing an example of a large capacity spool (deep), as well as a small capacity spool (shallow) -- next to an older spool. All parts fit, as well as interchange. Pretty nice, IMO. Wish all reels were like this.
If you need any of this stuff for this reel, or spares -- have plenty of new parts -- just let me know.
Best,
Fred
Fred,
I think it would take a new spool, the bottom of mine is very concave, the only way I could get it to function properly was to add 2 thin metal washers on top of the clicker gear under the drag washer, but that impacted line lay.
If you have enough of the original spools that would be ideal, if you don't, no problem. The only other problem is it is missing the handle spacer and body gasket, works fine without them.
I had thought about trying to replace the brake spring on the axle, but I'd rather not damage it due to inexpierance.
Thanks to both you and festus
Tom
I can send you a new 60 year old shallow or deep spool, complete with the clicker spring -- your choice, Tom.
If you need one that shows Serrage - CAP -- do not have enough of those.
I will also send out the other two parts you need --spacer and gasket.
Best,
Fred
Fred,
Thanks alot, I will pm you about the parts
Tom
Alright Fred!
That looks like a solidly constructed spinner. It has a body gasket?
Gfish
The body gasket was used up till the late 50s, than it was listed as optional, 1961 was the last year I found it listed on a schematic. It appears to have been used on the CAP, 304/305, 314/315. The original design of this reel dates back to the 1937/38 time frame.
Is there a gasket around the gear shaft where it goes through the side plate?
-steve
Steve,
The reel was originally designed by the company La Canne à Pêche of Angers , I believe there was some consideration given to that feature, but it was found, according to french law at the time, that it would require maintenance several times a day. This was felt to be an undue burden that would adversly impact sales and so it was omitted.
Here are some pictures of the internals, the two major differences between the C.A.P., Mitchell C.A.P and Mitchell 304 are the C.A.P.s had planimetric gears and a metal slide. The planimetric gears were replaced with a crosswind around 1956 and the words Mitchell 304 were used on the reels cover plate.
This was the third reel sold under the Mitchell name after the 300 and 302 but probably is the oldest base design. Early C.A.P models from the 1930s and later featured pillared spools similar to those found on many pre-war reels presumably to allow the fishing lines of that era to dry better. A brief history of the C.A.P reels and it's descendants can be found at:
http://www.mitchellcap.info/index.html
The axle
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/20123_21_10_19_12_30_41_298911073.jpeg)
These are the Driving gear, planetary gear, satellite gear, and oscillation slider. The driving gear assembly consists of a stainless steel shaft and anti-reverse gear and the aluminum main gear. The round stainless steel slider has a raised section on the back a bit over 1/32 thick were it sits on the flat section of the axle.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/20123_21_10_19_10_57_31.jpeg)
Here is the axle inserted in the body
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/20123_21_10_19_11_04_36_29887651.jpeg)
Slider installed
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/20123_21_10_19_11_04_11_298862428.jpeg)
Planetary gear added
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/20123_21_10_19_11_02_27_29883489.jpeg)
Satellite gear in orbit
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/20123_21_10_19_11_01_20_29879848.jpeg)
Driving gear in place
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/20123_21_10_19_11_03_25_29885179.jpeg)
Cover plate on
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/20123_21_10_19_11_05_29_298891470.jpeg)
The backside of the reel (body) The only other marking I could find was the word France inside the rotating head.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/29/20123_21_10_19_11_01_49_298822117.jpeg)
The rest of the reel, bail, bail trip, anti-reverse, etc.. are the same as the Mitchell 304 that Festus did an outstanding tutorial on.
Overall I found this to be an exceptionally well-made reel at approximately 75 years old still going strong, Hopefully, I'll be in this good a condition when I am this age.
Nice look inside! It's interesting that when the 314 came along it brought back the planamatic gears. It was like a "deluxe" 304...came with two pushbutton spools also.
The information in the link you provided (http://www.mitchellcap.info/index.html#changes) was a compilation done by Jim Seiler, who spent a lot of time researching the various CAP and round bodied Mitchell reel models. His purpose was to create a chronology of just the round bodied CAP/Mitchell style reels from its beginning through its final chapter and demise. Mr. Seiler passed on in 2002 without ever completing his research and book. I have an unpublished copy of his research, basically a rough draft in book form. My draft has additional information not included in the link provided. The draft consists of 120 pages. It is Mr. Seiler's conclusions and differs from information provided on the Mitchell Museum site and Dennis Roberts' books and should be taken as such.
It appears you have a first version 54 (Mitchell) CAP with the second version 54 Mitchell CAP spool. The first version spool was pillared with five small posts. The second and subsequent version spools have two slots. Your example is a common occurrence because the spools will interchange. The click spring mechanism on the underside of the spool indicates the time frame or probable version of reel the spool originated from.
Your spool has not been neglected or abused. Spools on the "54" CAPs have an approximate 1/16" concave recess across the diameter of the spool bottom. Your spool, though, appears, from your photo, to have lost the metal disk/washer in the center. That disked area should be flat and flush with the adjacent spool bottom. The disk was more than likely pressed into the recessed area. Also, the click pawl only allows the spool to spin when line is being taken out. It should block the spool from rotating in the opposite direction. You may have to make a new disk/washer the correct thickness and diameter (tight) and press it into the area on your spool where it is missing.
Below is what the bottom of the spool should resemble. As you can see, the paint has worn off the center disk/washer.
Tommy,
Thanks alot for solving my problem, I really appreciate it. I'm assuming the missing disk was aluminum??
I found this reel facinating, it's a simple, rugged design. This is also the only Mitchell I have taken apart that is smooth running and quiet but has no internal shims.