OK, I like to fish with either a "small" whole crab...or half of a "normal" crab, as bait, when surf fishing in the gulf. Issue is, I tend to "throw them off", when casting. Any tips ? Maybe "tie" them on ? The smaller , whole crabs (they call 'em "ghost crabs", down there) I hook by inserting into a "joint" in the shell, and then out "through" the shell...that works ...sort of. The "half crabs" (blue crab, usually), actually seem to work the best for the Red, and black drum, but are really hard to keep on the hook.........thanks !
I'm not sure there is a good way to do it, but small rubber bands help a lot.
-steve
I've served them on just like you do a live mackerel for trolling. Thread can be as simple and cheap as you can find. Wrapping between the legs lets the crab act natural, hook on top keeps snags away.
The Man
soft copper wire works...
also, get/make the Breakaway rig, or equivalent: https://www.breakawaytackleusa.com/products/leaders-rigs/far-out-rigs/
it really helps to have the bait not flopping around & everything in-line, behind the weigh, during the cast
kinda' expensive, but once you know you like it, you just get the specialized clips in bulk
& make your own (there are several effective designs that do the same thing)
Quote from: oc1 on November 18, 2019, 08:40:26 PM
I'm not sure there is a good way to do it, but small rubber bands help a lot.
-steve
l've never fished using a crab in saltwater, but that's a good idea. We use rubber bands on crawfish in rivers and lakes.
Amazon, "Atlas Mike's" miracle thread, thin, elastic made specifically for wrapping bait. YouTube the South Africans or British, they have a lot of ways for bait presentations to cast far distances without coming off.
On the rare occasions that I 'bait and wait' I use bait elastic - basically a thin elasticated thread. That way you don't have to hook the bait just hold it against the hook 'whip it' on. You can then cast a good distance knowing that your bait will stay in place.
A dispenser for the elastic also helps.
e.g.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tronixpro-Bait-Elastic-Line-Fine-Regular-Heavy-Sea-Fishing-Baiting-Tackle-100mtr/254399244347?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-W32xQuzTG-8/XIZTd7M9L4I/AAAAAAAASl8/ksq-BRt9XwQP3ximBdra_M2RYr-yf7ehACLcBGAs/s200/Lesdecapodes5.png)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-l70MY_YWJXs/XIZT3ZOpfUI/AAAAAAAASmE/B00cjmBgytUqAviRIOThdhEAdP2pCiLvACLcBGAs/s1600/Lesdecapodes7.png)
Those two methods are equally efficient , I prefer the 2 hooks , specially targeting all kinds of porgys (better hookup ratio )
My rigging for live crab is remove the claws, then the top shell, and split in half. I then remove the 3rd or 4th leg (depending on the size of the hook), and insert the hood where the claw used to be and come out where I removed the other leg. My uncle taught me this and he was one of Hawaii's old timer shore fisherman. It held out great and the sent of the fresh crab brought fish in.
Crow,
Never done it myself so take that with some crabs.
I watched guys on Dauphin Island - Ceder Point cut crabs in half and put the hook through sturdy part and and gently cast it.
Watched those guys get some big Reds
Yeah....crabs are the "go to" for the larger drum. And as Bryan pointed out...if they are "cut open", they seem to work better....more scent gets into the water, I guess. The issue I have is getting them "out there"...short "lob casts" are OK, but in order to get them out very far, it takes more "oomph", and they tend to "part company" with the rig! I've gotten some tips / ideas to try...and ordered one of those "breakaway" rigs, to try. I'm also thinking of trying some of that "net material"( like the gals used to make "prom dresses" from), and use it to wrap the crab, then "tie it, a bit, with some aluminum wire (really don't want to use copper, and I have some "soft" aluminum, anyway :-\). I guess, if I was a better "caster", that would help, also :D.
I usually try to fish one set-up with either a crab (IF i can catch the rascals !), or a fish head (whitting or croaker).......larger hook, and heavier line, but, as "luck" would have it....the big drum always seem to hit on the rigs with 8 lb. line, and a size 6 hook, baited with a chunk of shrimp ???
oh, wow, totally forgot:
there's this alcohol-based twine & netting that carp anglers use to "cast the chum with the bait"
you could just about mummify your HOWEVER-HOOKED crab into whatever aerodynamic shape/position & the stuff dissolves minutes after water contact
I'll look up the details
I am interested in that also Phil, good thought.
We have synthetic stuff to tie spawn bags for salmon/trout in MI but I don't think they will dissolve away
OK, so to find the stuff you have to:
- know that it's called "PVA mesh"
- realize it's in an obscure category "Baiting Aids"
- most importantly, correctly spell "baiting" in "Baiting Aids" :o
https://www.bigcarptackle.com/bait/baiting-aids/pva/pva/
P.S. there's slow-melt & fast-melt
I found that "pva" stuff on Amazon.....ordered some in "bag" form...a couple different sizes. It sure looks to be a pretty good option.....I was thinking that the 'organza' (or whatever that prom dress stuff is called) might not be something I wanted to see floating around in the gulf ! Too much crap out there, already !
https://www.amazon.com/Drchoer-Universal-RefillBait-Accessories-Available/dp/B07PG6DDK2/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=pva+bags&qid=1574263763&s=amazon-d
on another note... I just heard from two of the "snowbird fisherman's club", who are already "on island"....they tell me the whitting are biting really good, and are "nice sized", BUT, they are 'wormy" :'(. . 7 years ago, when we first went there, it was only the "bigger" black drum that had "worms", now , it seems almost everything that you catch from the beach has them ! I suppose that might be a result of the decline in water quality ???
Quote from: Crow on November 20, 2019, 03:33:36 PM
they tell me the whitting are biting really good, and are "nice sized", BUT, they are 'wormy" :'(. . 7 years ago, when we first went there, it was only the "bigger" black drum that had "worms", now , it seems almost everything that you catch from the beach has them ! I suppose that might be a result of the decline in water quality ???
I bet you can find a worm in every marine fish if you know what to look for. It is better not to know what to look for and to just keep eating them like you've always done. Do
not, under any circumstances, read Robin Overstreet's book which is now available at a very reasonable price from Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Marine-Maladies-Symbionts-Northern-Mexico/dp/B00AHGF0F2 (https://www.amazon.com/Marine-Maladies-Symbionts-Northern-Mexico/dp/B00AHGF0F2)
-steve
Quote from: Crow on November 20, 2019, 03:33:36 PM
I found that "pva" stuff on Amazon.....ordered some in "bag" form...a couple different sizes. It sure looks to be a pretty good option.....I was thinking that the 'organza' (or whatever that prom dress stuff is called) might not be something I wanted to see floating around in the gulf ! Too much crap out there, already !
been thinkin' (it only hurt a little)
the carp guys are generally working in drier conditions (spray, mist, fog and such) and their bait/chum is not surface-damp
maybe, only the slow-melt PVA is practical for S/W logistics -- it IS water-soluble, after all
(maybe, change your order if you still can)please let us know how the stuff works out (I only know about it -- never tried it)
specifically, is it strong enough to put in EVERYTHING: lead, baited hook(s), loose bits as chum, etc.
so you're casting "one object"
That sounds like a really cool product. I'm looking forward to hearing how it works out! Is it expensive?
MIke
Elastic thread 🧵 is easily available at sewing stores, come in red,white and black colors and is about three and a half dollars. I use the Dritz brand as it's very elastic and you get a good sized roll.
You can easily make a handy dispenser by slotting the side of a pill bottle with a cap. Or purchase one in the sewing store. When you drop the dispenser the thread stays ready to use, unlike if you just drop the open spool on the rocks, just my 2 sents.🎣🦀
As a "report" on the pva "bags"...they work pretty well ! I should have gotten some a little larger.....but I can get 1/2 a small crab, and a 3 oz.sinker in the ones I have. I can get "about " a 20%-25% increase in distance, AND, the crab stays on the hook ! I also *experimented" with "tying" the crab on the hook with small diameter aluminum wire (not 100% effective, but, it sure beats "nothing"), and using a "quick release" gadget that hold the hook to the sinker (until the sinker hits the water, which "triggers"the release). That increased my distance a "bit"...maybe 10%.
Crow, post some pics of the crab wrapped and the cow red drums when you catch em ;-)
Shibs, so far there have been no "Cows', OR "bulls", and even the "calves " have been few , and far between :P! This has been...so far...the worst "catching" year , of the 8 years we have been coming down here!
glad it worked -- did you get the regular or slow-melt PVA?
does the stuff have any specs/descriptors to help predict melt-time, strength, etc.
There was really no "info"with it, at all....and I never sent any "inquiries" to them, about melt times. I *think* it dissolves pretty fast....less than a minute, for sure (water temp is around 62-64 degrees F.). I need to do some more "research" about sizes that I can get it in...I remember they also had "sheets"of it, as well as the "bags". I *think* it's made from rice starch....it's made from something "edible, anyway.....the neighbors dog ate one while I was showing the guys what they were....darn dog ! I banned him from coming along to the beach with us,'cause he always eats the bait !
oh no, few more weeks, let it warm up a bit, any sheepheads around?
Ceder point shuts their doors till it warms up and the fish show up,
Are you sticking around till spring break, last week of March?
No, We'll be leaving about the 18th...depending on what the weather is like in Illinois. Cedar point was open when we got here in late November, but has been closed since then. Sheephead are being caught (from boats) around the bridge pilings and around the rigs...seem to be doing pretty well ! Surf fishing has "sucked".....very few whiting...and those are small. Did pick up a couple smaller reds...24", or so.......no big black drum, at all. Even the stingrays aren't biting !With the muddy water...there are some hardheads(catfish) being caught.
whenever something I'm after is running small, scarce & (esp.) wormy
I like to put a few (smallest legal) out as live bait
...maybe, cut a torn PVA bag into strips, to truss 'em up for the cast
When I was into carp fishing PVA (poly vinyl alcohol or ethanol homopolymer) had just become available (yes that long ago :D)
These days it's available as a mesh not just 'solid' pva. Any where that sells carp fishing stuff will have an array of pva products - string, tape, mesh tubes and bags, solid bags, sheets etc.
The mesh bags have the edge when it comes to dissolve speed. Also mesh doesn't trap air like the solid bags so lightweight leads and bait wont tend to float (until it dissolves of course). The tape and string could be used for tying the bait and weight together - hits the water - the tape melts releasing the weight and bait. I used it alot in freshwater but not in the salt. It will be interesting to see how it works in the sea.