Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Fishing Rods => Fishing Rods => Topic started by: jurelometer on November 19, 2019, 06:51:07 PM



Title: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: jurelometer on November 19, 2019, 06:51:07 PM
I usually build a rod when I need something that I cannot find commercially.   Usually functional, but nothing to be proud of appearance-wise.

I have been using my 3D printer for making tools and fixtures for other projects, so it was time to see if I could build up some tools to step up my game in the rod building department.

First off, a fixture for my palm router with a flush trim bit for sizing the inside of cork rings.  I made a set of drop in templates for the fixture, with the hole diameter increasing .02 inches at a time.  The rings were dry fit on the blank, and the fixture allowed the resized holes to be perfectly centered.   Much better than gluing the rings together and then reaming a tapered hole- at least for me.  Here is a video:


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DG-vgrbHwBNHz4vAFO8Hja35STSY70yu/view (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DG-vgrbHwBNHz4vAFO8Hja35STSY70yu/view)

Next up, wrapped the blank with some teflon plumber's tape and glued the rings together on the the blank with Titebond 3 , which I think is a better glue for cork than epoxy.   

Here are the rings being glued up with a clamping fixture that I printed up.   This fixture allowed me to use some existing bar clamps.

(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/11927_19_11_19_6_41_59.jpeg)

 Everything clamped up nice and the gaps between the rings were nearly invisible.

(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/medium_11927_19_11_19_7_30_28.jpeg) (https://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30622)

 Once the glue dried, I removed the teflon tape and epoxied the grip to the blank I prefer epoxy for attaching the cork to the blank).

Then I turned down the grip on the blank.

Next up, I printed a self-centering Longworth chuck attachment for my fly drying turner that I had printed a while back.  Now I have a rod drying turner:
(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/11927_19_11_19_6_38_28.jpeg)

For the last step, I got lazy and tried to apply this finish to the wraps in one coat, which came out a bit ugly, so I am not going to share a photo :)  Why is it always the last step where things go south?

I was contemplating rewrapping the rod, but took it out fishing, caught a bunch of fish, and now the finish doesn't bother me at all.


For those of you that haven't tried those burl cork rings, or the Fuji palming seats for the bigger low profile baitcasters- you are missing out.  I am really happy with the rod functionally, and with a bit of boat rash, the finish on the guides doesn't look so bad...

Here is a the final rod in action.   I decided I wanted a hook holder, so I printed one out as well.  And printed up a mold master to cast the jig in the photo.   

(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/11927_19_11_19_7_35_28.jpeg)

I'll do a writeup on  lure design using CAD and 3D printing if folks are interested.

-J


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: mhc on November 20, 2019, 04:33:23 AM
Great stuff Dave, thanks for sharing what you are 3D printing. I'm always interested to see how people design and make things in any medium - I might not be thinking of rod buildng or making jig molds at the moment but there are often design aspects or processes that are transferrable to unrelated projects and materials that can help trigger ideas for anyone making or modifying things. Foe example, I'd be interested in seeing a little more detail/photos of the self-centering chuck and router fixture.

Mike 


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: Donnyboat on November 20, 2019, 06:20:07 AM
Good post Dave, although you got poor old Mikes brain rattling now ay, he wont sleep for a week, cheers Don.


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: Crow on November 20, 2019, 06:22:33 AM
Makes me think that "printing" clear end plates for my "49" project would be a good way to go...IF I had the printer....and the "smarts" to use it ! ::)


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: Cor on November 20, 2019, 07:06:39 AM
Very interesting!
I think this seems to be the way to go for the future.

Besides it probably being nice to make your own components, and lures and whatever else, how does it compare price wise to print your own or buy something?
Are those of us who are that way inclined all going to purchase 3 D printers in the future.....probably distant future??

I make a lot of stuff, but this seems to open up many doors.


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: Midway Tommy on November 20, 2019, 10:49:28 AM
I sure wish I knew something about 3D and their costs were more reasonable. There sure are a lot of obsolete reel parts, plastic, nylon & metal, that could be 3D printed. Oscillation blocks, bail arms & plates, gears & handle knobs immediately come to mind.  ;) 


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: mo65 on November 20, 2019, 11:01:52 AM
I sure wish I knew something about 3D and their costs were more reasonable. There sure are a lot of obsolete reel parts, plastic, nylon & metal, that could be 3D printed. Oscillation blocks, bail arms & plates, gears & handle knobs immediately come to mind.  ;) 

   Yes indeed...and don't forget those pesky cracked drag knobs! 8)


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: steelfish on November 20, 2019, 03:57:14 PM
wow, this site never stop to amaze me, well the members actually

that 3D printed tools are really amazing (every time I see something cool that came out from a 3D printer I remember my younger days when we saw that on Sci Fi movies).

I have a question compa Dave,
do you think the chuck you made on the 3D printer fit on a standar dry setup stand from CRB?

mine is the same than in the attached pic and the hole is already "too soft/lose" and doest hold the blanks or rod butts as well as when new, so Im looking for alternatives, not in a hurry but it was a nice coincidence that you made your own self centered chuck.

if you think you can print another and sell it to me send me a PM please, I know nothing about 3D printing so, making one of this chuck might be 3x expensier than getting a new dry motor/stand.


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: jurelometer on November 20, 2019, 04:48:43 PM
I sure wish I knew something about 3D and their costs were more reasonable. There sure are a lot of obsolete reel parts, plastic, nylon & metal, that could be 3D printed. Oscillation blocks, bail arms & plates, gears & handle knobs immediately come to mind.  ;) 

   Yes indeed...and don't forget those pesky cracked drag knobs! 8)

You mean like this?


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: Midway Tommy on November 20, 2019, 07:37:01 PM

You mean like this?

I'm envious! 8)


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: mo65 on November 21, 2019, 06:10:27 AM
You mean like this?

   Is that a drag knob on a Penn 720 you've made there? Sweet!


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: The Fishing Hobby on November 21, 2019, 07:29:30 AM
That is awesome! I really like your chuck on the turner. It is like a chuck for a wood turning lathe!


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: Midway Tommy on November 21, 2019, 03:11:15 PM
Quote
Next up, wrapped the blank with some teflon plumber's tape and glued the rings together on the the blank with Titebond 3 , which I think is a better glue for cork than epoxy.

While Titebond may penetrate the cork better than epoxy I have my reservations about the longevity of their "Waterproof" claims. PL400 has always claimed to be "Waterproof". I have seen first hand where, when exposed to moister over long periods of time, PL400 has failed. Epoxy has been proven to be "waterproof" so if I'm going to build my own rod I'm going to use what has a proven track record.


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: The Fishing Hobby on November 21, 2019, 03:49:01 PM
Quote
Next up, wrapped the blank with some teflon plumber's tape and glued the rings together on the the blank with Titebond 3 , which I think is a better glue for cork than epoxy.

While Titebond may penetrate the cork better than epoxy I have my reservations about the longevity of their "Waterproof" claims. PL400 has always claimed to be "Waterproof". I have seen first hand where, when exposed to moister over long periods of time, PL400 has failed. Epoxy has been proven to be "waterproof" so if I'm going to build my own rod I'm going to use what has a proven track record.
Titebond III works well on cork for grips and holds up great on outdoor furniture in my personal experience. Most epoxy isn't actually waterproof...but in saying that, we both know on a fishing rod it works great and the moisture it is exposed to isn't an issue. I glue my cork together with Titebond III and use epoxy to bond the grip to the blank. I have also used epoxy to bond cork to cork and I just prefer the Titebond III. Either works well from my experience.


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: jurelometer on November 21, 2019, 10:25:46 PM

Here is a bit more on Longworth chucks:

The Longworth is the simplest self-centering chuck that I am aware of.   It was originally invented for turning large wood pieces by an Australian chap (but not the same one that invented Vegemite :) ).

Here is the front view of my design:

(https://alantani.com/gallery/30/medium_11927_21_11_19_10_18_11.png) (https://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30669)

And the back view:

  (https://alantani.com/gallery/30/medium_11927_21_11_19_10_19_03.png) (https://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30670)

The grey front plate is attached to the drive shaft.  The jaws (green) have a bolt that passes through the slots in the front plate and back plate (red).   To tighten or loosen the jaws, the back plate is rotated while the front plate is held stationary.




I have a question compa Dave,
do you think the chuck you made on the 3D printer fit on a standar dry setup stand from CRB?


I assume that the old chuck can be removed from the motor, and will leave an exposed D shaft - probably 6 mm or maybe 1/4 inch.

I would be happy to make you one, but I have a pretty big backload of projects, and I am also in the middle of upgrading the printer.   So it could be quite awhile.   

The good news is that Longworth chucks are incredibly easy and fun to make.  Just screw together two 1/4 inch plywood disks, drill a hole through the center, and rout out the curved slots.   remove the screws, flip one of the disks around and now you have the front and back plates. Add some dowels, pvc pipe, wine corks or whatever for jaws.  One machine screw and nut for each jaw, and you are almost there.  The front plate is locked to the shaft, and the back plate rotates on the shaft.   How you want to attach the shaft to the motor is up to you, but if you get  a bit clever, you can probably come up a slip clutch as well.

I can send you a PDF with a pattern for the chuck plates.   

-J


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: Robert Janssen on November 22, 2019, 12:32:46 AM
That is cool.
Seems to me, that the arcuate slots could in fact be straight. Not quite as slick, but still functional. That would make things much easier for hobby / DIY folks.

.


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: steelfish on November 22, 2019, 10:20:26 AM
The good news is that Longworth chucks are incredibly easy and fun to make. 

I can send you a PDF with a pattern for the chuck plates.   
-J

well the problem to made this kind of DIY project is the lack of tools, but send me the PDF so I can have an idea if its something I can do.
I have another dryer on the power wrapper lathe, so I can wait for you to have time.


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: jurelometer on November 22, 2019, 02:15:28 PM
The good news is that Longworth chucks are incredibly easy and fun to make. 

I can send you a PDF with a pattern for the chuck plates.   
-J

well the problem to made this kind of DIY project is the lack of tools, but send me the PDF so I can have an idea if its something I can do.
I have another dryer on the power wrapper lathe, so I can wait for you to have time.


Hey Alex,

What does the driveshaft on your motor look like after you take off the current chuck?

BTW:  An electric drill, a jigsaw and a file is all that you need.   There are lots of threads on building Longworth chucks on the web.  Here is one:  http://ravenview.com/blog/2010/10/17/how-to-make-a-longworth-chuck/ (http://ravenview.com/blog/2010/10/17/how-to-make-a-longworth-chuck/)

An interesting thing about this version is that the backplate is connected to the drive, and the front plate is rotated to open/close the jaws.  This might be easier for your design.

At any rate, for a rod dryer we do not need a chuck as robust and accurate as the ones you see online for wood turning.

1.  To make the disks nice and round after cutting, use a machine  screw and nut through the center,  tighten up and spin on a drill.  Use a file or sandpaper along the edge to get the disks nice and round.

2.  To cut the curved slots,  make a simple jig out of scrap:  drill two holes at a distance equal to the radius of the arc.  The jig rotates on a screw that goes through the first hole in the jig.  The screw is attached to the plates at the center of the arc for a  slot.  Now use the other hole as a guide for your drill.  Drill out a bunch of holes along the path of the arc,  file/sand out the high spots, and you are done.   The slot width should be just slightly larger than your jaw screw diameter.  If you are  more coordinated than I,  you can just freehand the drilling and skip the jig.

Or you can find somebody in your town that works with wood,  show them the web instructions/videos, and give them a printout of my template.   It is such a fast project, it should be relatively inexpensive.  But the design cannot be finished until we know how we can attach the chuck to the motor.

-J


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: steelfish on November 22, 2019, 05:28:24 PM

Hey Alex,

What does the driveshaft on your motor look like after you take off the current chuck?
-J

I dont know, but I can check that out later today, I just need to take one screw out and some pics


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: jurelometer on November 24, 2019, 06:42:35 PM
I wanted to catch up on the questions on this thread.

Ther is a bit of a misconception about what 3D printing can do, especially at the hobby  end.  Metal parts ar out of the question at the hobby side. The printed plastic parts  approach the strength of injection molded along one axis, but because the partis made in layers, it is much weaker along the other axis.

 Here is a quick write up: https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=26604.msg303010#msg303010 (https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=26604.msg303010#msg303010)

Mike:   I have read that 3D printed plastic fixtures are sometimes used to hold oddly shaped metal parts for machining,  especially when the tolerances are a bit generous. I think that the  thing that I keep forgetting and relearning is the value of using CNC machines for making fixtures for further construction and assembly.  The accuracy is so high  that it is often practical  to have an entirely different set of steps to execute a project.  It is easy to fall into the trap of using the new technology to do things the old way.

Crow:  there are some 3D filaments that are pretty clear, but because the part is made by squirting out threads of melted plastic, all of the layer lines prevent the part from being transparent. Translucent is about as good as it gets.

Cor:   A decent hobby printer can cost under USD $200 if you build it from scratch from individual components,  more like $700 if you want  a quality kit.  If you are not willing to assemble it yourself, then don't bother getting a printer,  as taking the stupid thing apart and fixing something is a regular occurrence.  The cheapest plastic filament for printing that won't clog your printer is about $20 a kilo, and goes up from there.  So  if you designed a big plug that weighed about 40 grams before adding ballast,  that should mean about 50 plugs per kilo, plus electricity for printing , failed prototypes, replacement printer parts, etc.   The printer really shines where you want to do some iterative design and go through a couple generations to get the design just right.

The real work is in learning the CAD software to design your parts. There are some good programs for free, so it doesn't cost anything to get started.

Tommy/Mo:   Some plastic parts can be reproduced.  Things like knobs and handles are easy.  Something like a 720 crosswind block is doable, but about as far as I would go.  Functional metal parts requires expensive printers and materials.   Too expensive as of today,  even using a service.

Regarding Titebond 3 for cork grips:   I found the recommendation on Rodbuilding.org.   It is a type 1  ("waterproof") glue which means it had to survive a pretty rigorous test (two rounds of immersion in boiling water for four hours?). I had trouble with epoxy,  as I would get some joint starvation if I didn't  make the glue line so thick that it was visible.   I have been fishing this rod a lot.   If the Titebond 3 fails,  I promise to fess up. :)

I think that covers everything.   

-J


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: Midway Tommy on November 24, 2019, 07:48:50 PM
Well I guess I should 'fess up that I build, exclusively, pre-made Tennessee grips with slip rings and, at the most, I'll add 3 or maybe 4 single decorative cork rings towards the ends or in between the factory joint. Epoxy doesn't create problems it that grouping.


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: gstours on November 26, 2019, 08:16:59 AM
Dave dude, ;)  You are over the top with your technical ideas and modernistic ability to tackle some of our challenges at the simple hobby level that us common folk live in!   Thanks for the information and sharing the pictures.  Your approach to the solution is amazing to me and others. 
    I,m still amazed at the 3d master jigs forms you made and your silicone molds abilitys.
 I am forever grateful and careful with the silicone mold that you made for me.  Its holding up well, starting to surface harden slightly in areas but overall in very good condition.
  We all appreciate seeing and hearing from your higher technological oversight in problem solving.   Thanks Again.





Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: jurelometer on November 26, 2019, 06:17:57 PM
Thanks Gary.     It has been really interesting talking fishing with you, and I have learned a lot.  
Glad to hear that the mold is holding up.   Since we have the master, it is easy enough to pour a fresh one.  Maybe try stepping up in size,  especially if you can get mix up one of those bullet  alloys  that pours at a lower temp than pure lead.

But I am thinking that you should give that fat bottom jig a whirl.  I think that the master  I gave you would make a jig about 20 oz.  if you measure the length,  I can give you a more accurate number.   The smaller ones  fish really well for a variety of situations, and sinks pretty fast.  With a top rigged assist hook, it does well on the lingcod and rockfish, and does not snag easily.   I have no idea if halibut will eat it, but now have over a dozen different species on it from bottom fish to bluewater species.

-J


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: droppedit on November 28, 2019, 08:07:35 AM
I'm curious on which program you are running for the cad 3d. I have Autocad I use but have a hard enough time drawing in 2d.
I'm interested in getting a 3d printer but it will be long after I get my house finished and set up my new shop.

Thanks,
Dave


Title: Re: Making tools for rod building with my 3D printer
Post by: jurelometer on November 28, 2019, 11:02:40 AM
I'm curious on which program you are running for the cad 3d. I have Autocad I use but have a hard enough time drawing in 2d.
I'm interested in getting a 3d printer but it will be long after I get my house finished and set up my new shop.

Thanks,
Dave

I am not an AutoCAD user, but I thought that this product was more focused on supporting larger scale designs outside of 2D drawings.   Things like architectul designs.

AutoDesk ( the maker of AutoCAD) has a product called Fusion 360.  Subscriptions are currently free for hobbyists and small business.   In terms  of functionality, I think  it is pretty much the only game in town for a hobbyist to consider if you want a full-featured product for free.   Like all Autodesk products, it is a giant hot mess, despite the extra effort made to make Fusion  user friendly.   

Fusion  is cloud based,  which means all of your designs are kept on Autodesk computers, and even some of the computing runs remotely.   I won't go into how often it corrupts a version of my designs  >:(.    This is not a enthusiastic recommendation,  just an acknowledgement that it is the only game in town for a free, powerful  CAD/CAM package   (CAM is needed for CNC machining, but not 3D printing). 

  Fusion is not too tough to learn if you take baby steps and work through the tutorials.   Just diving in and expecting intuitive behavior from this product will lead to frustration.

If you do a search for CAD on this site, you will find several useful discussions.   Try this for a search term on your favorite search engine:

cad site:alantani.com

-J