Greetings!
Spring has some of the best fishing in MI,
Coho/Salmon on the west side and small mouth and walleye on the Detroit River.
But, the water temp is on average around 36F to 40F, which have me a little nervous.
1. flotation jackets - though these are not comfy and soft, I am looking into getting one.
2. flotation Bibs - Do I need one of these? do the above and this in conjunction prevent hypothermia?
I am kinda confused, I have auto inflating lifejackets too, but the cold water has me a little nervous.
The boat in question is a 17.5 ft crestliner dual console.
Very wise to be concerned. You have a few minutes to get out of that cold of water if dumped in.
Me? Kill switch lanyard always attached, boat ladder rigged to side for easy deployment from water, and life vest always on.
As a young man I was sitting in an apartment hot tub with a girl, in winter. I thought I would cool off in the pool with a quick dive. I struggled mightily when the shock of the cold water hit me. Almost couldn't make it to the edge. Managers apparently shut heaters off for the winter.
Been afraid of cold water shock ever since.
i have an inflatable for myself that is used when i'm on someone else's boat. on my boat, i only use standard bulky pfd's. i can't depend on my passengers to have the presence of mind to manually inflate the jacket if they are in the water.
For muskie fishing here in north eastern Ontario, Canada the season extends into the second week of Dec so we fish in some pretty stupid weather. if we can find a ramp that is still open. Warmth and comfort are key so a full flotation suit or two piece depending on preference are pretty common. Two piece is good as you can remove the jacket on those days the sun warms things up. I personally have an Atlantic class mustang flotation suit. The flotation suits are less bulky and more comfortable than having to get a pfd that fits over your warm clothes. If you don't use one, at a minimum wear an auto inflating PFD. If you happen to fall in you may not be able to activate a manual one due to the shock of the cold water. These can be easily adjusted to fit comfortably over you winter gear. Remember, a lot of drowned fishermen are found with their fly down. Also make sure you have a pair of warm boots on. Regardless if the sun is shining or not, your boat is still going to be the same temp as the water it is in.
As was mentioned before. Kill switch cord connected when driving and have a ladder in the boat. You would need the ladder as all that clothing soaks up a lot of water. I tried mine once and I would not have been able to get into the boat without the ladder.
Lastly but not least, have a 12 volt outlet to plug an electric coffee cup in. It just makes the day that much better. ;D
LL
Forgot to mention. Have a dry boat bag with a full change of clothes. If someone goes in you have to get them out of the wet stuff as soon as possible. Have warm baggy pants, sweater, fleece jacket, warm socks, warm head gear, gloves, some kind of foot wear and towel. Make sure it is all a bit bulky as you are not just sizing it for you but for anyone else you have in your boat. Your dressing for survival not style.
I pushed mine all around my boat always complaining it takes up too much storage until the day it was needed. Had a buddy fall out the back of the boat. Happened only once in 25 years of late season fishing. We were very glad to have it in the boat that day.
+1 for auto-inflating or bulky PFD. Cold water immersion makes people not terribly good at cognitive function.
A flotation bib will do precisely nothing to help with hypothermia once you're in the water. Only a sealed survival suit will do that. Once you've got water in contact with your skin you may as well be naked for the purposes of heat retention (wetsuits excluded).
A friend of mine was fishing solo on his 32' boat and fell over while fighting a king salmon. He tried to climb back on with no luck. He was only seconds from losing all muscle control when he grabbed cowling on one of his big outboards, and stepped on cavity plate and hit tilt up button on cowling to get back onboard. He was fortunate to think of that as he was literally freezing to the core. . Funniest part is he did land the 32# king salmon after reboarding his boat.
Good Point on auto-inflating life jackets
2 points of worry:
1. staying afloat
2. Hypothermia
1. staying afloat = flotation jacket and or life jackets
2. Hypothermia - here where I am confused, how to dress, which under layers, etc.
https://mustangsurvival.com/blogs/resources/hypothermia
says that flotation suits actually do help with hypothermia,
I did not see any mention of 2 piece (jacket with bib vs one piece long johns).
I have the ladder behind the boat, the gunwales are not that high but I rarely lean over.
One of the scenarios that we see a lot is a large freak wake from a special person with 3 big blocks gunning the throttle and a wake 6 ft high hits you on the side. Then the light alu boat of mine goes cray cray for few seconds. With that visualization and technical description, it does pay to be careful on the water.
Took a jet-boat up and down a river we were camped on, in Alaska. A floatcoat worked well at keeping the wind off the torso. I did fall in once while excitedly fighting a surprisingly silvery Chum salmon. The combo. of the coat and neoprene chest waders popped me back up like a cork. My friend was there to help me back into the boat, but warm clothes in a dry-bag like Larry mentioned, woulda been the thing, as we were 24 miles from camp.
Indeed I did land the salmon: "Dude you're crazy!" "No man, my first one on a fly, I still got 'em, I'm gonna land this sucker!"
Dang Gregg, clothes in a dry bag has been added.
How big was the salmon?
Neoprene waders are heavy, I find them really awkward, I opt for a couple layers of thick fleece and then my regular breathable waders, I get nervous with the extra weight of neoprene in waist high water, for duck hunting in ankle high slush, sure.
Interesting topic.
I fish ( when the boats goin) 80% solo, but it's only in the local bays, however, we seem to have more boating incidents in these bays than out wide. I'ts certainly big enough to get into trouble and disappear with out being even noticed. Out wide, always 2 up.
I carry all the off shore safety gear with me at all times, flares, extinguishers, fire blankets, epirb etc etc. It's mandatory when solo to wear a life jacket, or for boats under 5 mtrs or at heightened risk, ie excessive weather, crossing a bar etc.
Life jackets,,,, I use the inflatable variety, mainly because there comfortable, but I admit, when I'm not solo, there is no requirement and I don't.
There is questions on the inflatable variety, being that if you get tossed out or you have to abandon, if you actually get rendered unconscious, the inflatable is no use and therefore the water activated variety would be the go. I think I was put off them, when down under a few years back a bloke had his boat capsize, his jacket inflated, he ended up under the boat cavity, and couldn't get out due to the jacket. It was a freak occurrence, one that probably would never happen again, none the less, when it came time to re new all mine, I just went for the manual activated type...
I'm fairly thorough with all my safety gear and I take the rules seriously, but I often think, if I'm 60 km out, get into trouble, can't activate the epirb for some reason, well, I'm really in the hands of the gods in all honesty. I think back on some of the distances I have travelled, places that would have been near impossible for search or rescue, I kinda shudder at the thought now.....
Ya can't be to careful when it comes to safety and planning when boating, praying I guess may help, luck for sure in some instances, but I think that's all part of the thrill of boating and getting out on the water. After so long, I think I must be doing something right, but I just shake my head when the water police turn up at out launching ramps and fair throw the book at some boat owners for there lack of common sense yet alone what minimum safety gear they should damn well have on there boats, and here them cursing and saying it's just revenue raising when they get a huge juicy enforcement ticket !!! They just don't get it..........
Col
Quote from: Gobi King on February 18, 2020, 05:52:00 PM
1. staying afloat = flotation jacket and or life jackets
2. Hypothermia - here where I am confused, how to dress, which under layers, etc.
https://mustangsurvival.com/blogs/resources/hypothermia
says that flotation suits actually do help with hypothermia,
Please note the critical difference between a flotation suit and an immersion suit. An immersion suit is close to a drysuit in function; it keeps the water out, and the air trapped in it both provides a measure of insulation and flotation. A flotation suit is sometimes used interchangeably, but does not inherently exclude water. Anything like a bib is almost certainly not suitable for immersion, as the water would immediately come gushing in through the top. Once water is inside your clothing, the clothing does nothing; you are effectively nude for the purposes of warding off hypothermia.
Maximum safety (and probably really warm)? An immersion suit + automatic PFD.
Quote from: Gobi King on February 19, 2020, 01:16:10 AM
Dang Gregg, clothes in a dry bag has been added.
How big was the salmon?
Neoprene waders are heavy, I find them really awkward, I opt for a couple layers of think fleece and then my regular breathable waders, I get nervous with the extra weight of neoprene in waist high water, for duck hunting in ankle high slush, sure.
Probably about 8lbs. Chum's degrade notoriously fast in fresh water and usually don't migrate to far upriver. Neopreme waders will give you +buoyancy and as long as you have a wading belt you can keep most of the water out. Without the belt, climbing back out on a river---difficult, into a boat maybe impossible.
Floatation coveralls like a Mustang Suit might be what you are looking for.
https://www.feldfire.com/Mustang-Survival-Deluxe-Anti-Exposure-Coverall-Work-Suit_p_7551.html?msclkid=380c52492bc01059bc020c046556ca77&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20-%20Main&utm_term=4579946966144270&utm_content=category%20type
Is that just an example Lee? Or is that a good price?
I might just spend the money now that I'm older and not bullet proof.
Quote from: Rancanfish on February 19, 2020, 03:55:34 PM
Is that just an example Lee? Or is that a good price?
I might just spend the money now that I'm older and not bullet proof.
No, shop around and you might find them for a better price. Mine has seen better days as I used it at work and should be replaced.
Lee,
Thanks, yes, I have been looking at these, but I am kinda chunky and a large might be bit too snug and xl might be too long.
But, here is the key I was confused about they clarify it:
Mustang Survival flotation suits are designed to protect the wearer from foul weather, and use closed-cell foam to offer flotation and hypothermia protection in the event of water immersion. Tug-Tite technology and Velcro wrist and ankle closures improve fit and limit water flushing if immersed, SOLAS reflective tape enhances visibility and an inflatable head support pillow.
So this suit will be useful for full water immersion! yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
They are not full immersion suits and you will get wet. USIA makes a full immersion suit that are nice, and the owner is a friend of mine.
https://usia.com/pro-rafter-suit/ (https://usia.com/pro-rafter-suit/)
Nice. Either one of those options would be worth every penny, if you were to fall in under the wrong conditions just once.
Do everything you can to prevent falling in the water...... if you're alone you're probably going to die.
Take a capable friend and discuss your plan and equipment before putting your gear down. Put down something for a slip proof flooring ahead of time. Mats or carpeting or nutshells in paint have more grip for boots than a vinyl covered plywood.
I think the safety equipment has been covered. Dry cold seems easier to deal with then wet cold conditions. Keep safe. Staying warm in your feet and hands is another topic.🧐
A heat source may keep you fishing longer. Good luck.🍀
Gary!
HOW DO YOU DO in Gustavus, AK this am???
Every charter trip I've taken out of Half Moon Bay or SF, each time we are told the NUMBER 1 RULE of the day is ....
STAY INSIDE THE BOAT!!!!!
Sounds obvious until YOU ARE NOT...
Wayne
Ok, as long as you can stay interested I've got a good chance to say a couple more things.
Firstly is a double statement...... Do everything first to make sure that you and your passenger doesn't go over board into Cold Water... keeping warm on the boat will busy your mind and your thoughts may help your with improvements while fishing 🎣.
Here's some statistics, 🐙. Don't scare be aware.... good luck.🍀
I have no intentions of taking a dip ;-)
I have taken enough cold showers in my life.
My fishing will be limited to 1 mile from shore max and 2 miles max from the coast guard station on Lake Michigan,
On the Detroit River I plan to stick around the mouth of the Detroit river around St Clairs (the red lines on the map).
I am going to get my AIS registered and get a proper antenna for it. The reason being that is a shipping lane and big azz 1000 ft er go up and down that alley a lot.
I need to test my new VHF radio for the boat with the antenna.
Immersion survival - I am guessing a wet suit is the best for this, I bought the flotation jacket and I need to find a neoprene pants.
Bottom - neoprene bottom with insulated ski pants on top
Top - Flotation jacket with thermal layers underneath
I have dual console full windshield and I can get out of the wind to take a break, the wind chill is a factor, maybe I need to look into electric heated under clothing ;-)
My dad brings a small portable heater this make a big difference,,,,,,,, ;D
Quote from: Benni3 on February 24, 2020, 04:18:43 AM
My dad brings a small portable heater this make a big difference,,,,,,,, ;D
I have a little buddy heater, I will put in bag next time. my fingers are the only part that gets cold and this year I will put in a hand warmer packet.
I received my mustang flotation jacket, and it is going back.
Cons:
1. Bulky, it has solid, thick flotation material in the front that makes lowering my arms uncomfortable,
2. the wrist and waist has neoprene bands that are LOOSE, those won't do jack to prevent water from getting it.
I am a bit disappointed.
I am going to skip a float jacket and get thick neoprene long sleeve top and a bottom (separate) and wear and regular pdf on top of the winter layer
So here are the layers:
synthetic underclothing >
Neoprene long sleeve top > fishing shirt with pockets for phone id > winter jacket (water shedding) > pdf which allow arm mobility (either auto inflating one or a regular sailing pdf)
the bold item, is my immersion layer, the same stuff they use for kiteboarding.
I see those guys surfing in 40F water all the time :o
Well one time I was fishing with my dad and was throwing the net,,,,,, :D and my dad accidently hit the trolling motor in full reverse,,,,,,, :o and i went over,,,,, ??? And I had on waders,,,,, ::) but I remember what the game warden said to wrapped my arms around my knees,,,,, :-\ just the shock of 40% water,,,but a change of clothes and a little hearted and was good to go,,,,,,,, ;D
Hey Gobi did you ever think about sitting in front of the fireplace with a bourbon and waiting for warm weather? ::) Dominick
Dominick, Yeah I could but that is the PRIME time for Detroit River walleye, everybody and their mother is on the river then, it is cold in MI 9 month of the year ;-)
Same for the big lake, even in peak summer the water never warms up and when it blow out to th west, the water temp drops to 38F sometimes on the surface
Benni, I bet that woke you up, I had my wader feet fail one in chest high water, and I could feel a pin hole and water shooting into the feet and after 20 mins I started shaking from the inside. I had to give fishing and my spot, I did not have a change of clothes and drove home in my undies :-) only to find out that my little honda fit did not produce much heat at the footwell area!
Don't stand at the gunnel, pee in jar or a bailer, a lot of corpse's are recovered with open zippers. When I was doing winter commercial in New England a real wool blanket was in the kit, the only thing that will keep you warm when it's wet. Cold water sucks the body heat out 25 times faster than air, you won't have much time, have a plan.
Water temperature: 32.5 to 40 degrees Time until exhaustion or unconsciousness: 15 to 30 minutes Expected time of survival in the water: 30 to 90 minutes
you definatley need a better plan, a flotation device is just making it easier to locate your corpse.
I've said it before, from experience, if you hit the cold water without a vest you will struggle to swim at all. The shock takes your breath away and you feel like you are made of lead. Scary.
Here what I found and decided for this season:
FYI: even in peak summer when air temp is 90, with a west ward wind the top water temp in Lake Michigan near the shore can drop to low 40s.
2 part kite surfing neoprene layer + auto inflating lifejacket + handheld vhf with dsc/mmsi/gps
the float suits are just too bulky to fish in