This past year I got into catfish and carp fishing. Fishing from the bank with multiple fishing poles with my son and nephew was alot of fun. I typically fish with older Mitchell reels, buying used reels online and getting them ready to fish is a lot of fun for me.
While the new reels have a baitrunner set up the old Mitchell spinning reels I use do not have this option. Being mechanical and having access to Solidworks at work I thought maybe I could make a poor man's version.
With the way the original spool and drag system works I thought that if I could use some sort of a cam mechanism that would flip up and go a free spool and then when a fish hits I could flip down to a "fighting" drag would be easy to do.
My first proto type was down and dirty. It was made from multiple pieces screwed together. Just to see it work for the first time was awesome. The first fish I caught with it was a 4 pound common carp. The set up was big and bulky but the idea was there.
Just after this was done my work got a 3d printer. This got me thinking about going to the next level with making the cam mechanism one piece, making a spool that had the capacity between the large and small spool and if I could make the drag system lower in the spool and do a multiple drag washer set up.
I have been working on this on and off over the winter trying to get ready for spring. All of this is out of want not need. Just a fun project I am working on. I thought I would put it out there to see if anyone has done something like this or interested in doing this themselves. This is still a work in progress but if anyone is interested in seeing how it turns out let me know and I can update as I go.
Attached are a few photos. I have the proto type and a few of a 3d printed spool and the drag washer setup with a regular drag knob. I do not have a good picture of the new 3d printed cam mechanism on the spool.
Good work. It sure would be nice if you could post a photo of the final cam. It looks like you have come up with a winner. Dominick
This is great!!
I've been playing with the same idea to use on my 9500SS, but haven't gotten to the point of drawing anything up yet.
You've done some great work here and I see a lot of potential for this idea!
Keep it up and keep us posted!
What are you printing the spool out of? Will it be able to handle the force of a big cat? This is awesome. So many options available with additive manufacturing.
The Man
I'm not up-to-date on the carp stuff, but I'm pretty sure that some of the more recent
Shimano's have a Baitrunner system completely inside the spool/drag knob, and
Okuma has an aftermarket Baitfeeder drag knob, to convert standard models
don't know where you could "peruse the innards" for ideas -- maybe, Carp forums
Good job, and reel good thinking !!
I've seen some European versions of reels that have that. They're target market is the carp fishermen. I would sure like to get these for my spinners!
Nice!
Quote from: philaroman on February 26, 2020, 10:10:59 PM
I'm not up-to-date on the carp stuff, but I'm pretty sure that some of the more recent
Shimano's have a Baitrunner system completely inside the spool/drag knob, and
Okuma has an aftermarket Baitfeeder drag knob, to convert standard models
don't know where you could "peruse the innards" for ideas -- maybe, Carp forums
Here it is:
http://okumafishing.eu/big-pit/ (http://okumafishing.eu/big-pit/)
Looks like the same rough idea. The Okuma design has less to catch on line, and more importantly -the wear areas (especially the shaft hole) can be larger/stronger. I don't think the shaft support in your first version will last very long.
The general disadvantage of this type of design would be that the baitrunner vs main drag settings are not independent. If you get one right, you might not like the other.
Since you are making a spool and drag setup- may I suggest an alternate approach? By using a combination of belleville washers (conical sprigs) at the top of the drag stack, you can make a drag that goes from zero to whatever your useful maximum is in one turn or less. Now a short twist of the drag knob will allow you to go from baitrunner to fighting drag settings. You could get a bit fancier, and have some sort of adjustable marks or even stops for one or both settings. Ideally this is just some sort of light stop that you can override with a bit extra force. Swapping the orientation of the bellevilles will change how fast the drag tightens. If you search this site for belleville washers you should find lots of information on this in lever drag conventional reel discussions.
Micro adjustable drags are a bit useless IMHO. Loosing the extra turns is not giving up much. At the same drag setting, the tension on the fish varies greatly based on the amount of bow, current, etc, so micro-tuning the drag is mostly applying a false sense of security :) .
On a separate note, you also have the option of redesigning the drag. I was thinking a dual drag with delrin or rulon discs locked into both ends of the the spool with metal discs locked to the shaft. This could be very smooth, plenty strong, and unaffected by water. For a 300 series, the max drag that the reel can handle is not so great, so you do not need to go overboard.
Regarding printing: Stay away from PLA plastic if you can avoid it. What type of printer are you using- FDM or resin? There are a few tricks to getting stronger parts.
And keep posting your progress please!
-J
IMO, the gradual micro-adjustability matters more for zero-stretch
and I just plain like it, in BOTH: rear downsized/feeder drag
and separate, uncluttered, unencumbered full front drag
the "all-up-front" baitrunner seems like a cool DIY project, and
the commercial versions seem nice as once-in-a-while options w/ minimal added weight
BUT, for any kind of AFFORDABLE longevity, durability, consistency, power, range...
GIMME OLDSKOOL!!!
All interesting.
Frank
I have used the Okuma bait feed drag knob - it works very well. There were 2 versions, the earlier 'mk 1' was prone to failure - the threaded part would strip too easily, cost me a decent 100lb plus catfish. The second (current version) is much better. The operating lever is flat, rather than round, and much easier to operate. They fit the 65 and 80 size spinners. A simple cost effective upgrade ;)
glad to know there's a better 2nd version -- is the one in the link v1 or v2?
I'd love one, but for the next lower body size... older Okuma has
some drastic fluctuations/variations in spool size & specs, per given "size number"
would love a 45/50/55 with same drag well as modern 65/80, to use w/ this knob
This project has been a lot of fun for me to do. How it will look when it is finished is still up in the air.
As it was touched on in the comments there are definitely limitations with this design.
There is not any adjustment from free spool to fighting drag.
Right now I am not too worried about that. For the size of the fish at my local lake the design works well.
So back to the updates:
The spool design has some slots in the top of the spool. I did this for a quick visual of how much line is on there. I was also worried about the line twisting up on the release button so I made some "line ramps" to try and get the line over the release button.
I also supported the drag cam on both sides with the nut and rounded it out so the bail can flip open and closed and any position that the spool is at.
The drag set up is a little bit in the air. Trying to find a spring that has the right strength and height is a little tough. I ended up finding a wave spring from McMaster Carr that seems to work ok. The issue is that it is not stainless steel and I worry about corrosion.
The spool is printed on a Markforged printer with their Onyx chopped carbon fiber filament. I am not sure how it will hold up but I plan to start putting it thru the paces this summer.
For my area a 10 pound fish is huge and they never find themselves on the end of my line so it should be fine.
Excellent!
A good grease coating will protect your regular steel wave washer if it does not get rubbed off.
Good choice on the filament. Carbon fiber filled nylon is what is used for injection molding plastic reel frames. My guess is that you should do fine for light duty freshwater if the nylon fused well when printing. The spool lip might be a bit rough on the line when casting.
-J
Quote from: philaroman on February 27, 2020, 04:57:06 PM
glad to know there's a better 2nd version -- is the one in the link v1 or v2?
I'd love one, but for the next lower body size... older Okuma has
some drastic fluctuations/variations in spool size & specs, per given "size number"
would love a 45/50/55 with same drag well as modern 65/80, to use w/ this knob
The one in the link is a Mk 2.
Excellent work :) I would love to be around in 20 yrs to see the kind of stuff being produced from this forum ;D
I would give the spool lip a thorough polishing/burnishing to remove any roughness.
Great job!!
I love this!
I have a TAZ 5 desktop machine at work. Can I use this filament in that, or can it only be used in better machines?
I'd love to start playing with something like this for my 9500SS!
great work, looks excellent.. I've thought about 3d printing for small parts before, have a carp-fishing acquaintance who is printing his own flycarpin (https://www.instagram.com/flycarpin/) reels..
Quote from: jbas on March 16, 2020, 09:36:51 PM
For my area a 10 pound fish is huge and they never find themselves on the end of my line so it should be fine.
ya that's about my position too - who needs heavy-duty tackle anyway ? :-)
back in S. Africa we used to fish centerpin reels for carp, on the plus side they allowed for easy baitrunning, on the minus side, no drag at all. Ha.
When using a Mitchell 308 on rivers for carp, would just set the drag light, use finger control on the spool when striking and for those first few confused seconds while tightening the drag..
I am not very familiar on the 3d printing aspect , I am not sure if the Onyx material can be used with other printers.
I was able to go fishing this past weekend and I did catch a couple fish using the baitrunner and a hair rig for carp.
I really like the way the spool looks and performs so far. I think next I will start designing different cams to see what different drag strengths I can get from off to on.
I also bought some carbonex drag material to see if this will make for a smother drag. As of now I have stainless steel washers and then mylar for the drag washer.
The mylar is just what I have available to me.
I also want to measure the drag strength that the spool makes. From what I read on the internet it is measured with the line coming out of the pole at a 45 degree angle. They also say that the drag should be set at 10 percent of the line rated breaking strength.
Hey Chad,
There are reports of people printing with Onyx on other brands of printers. There will probably be a lot of trial and error getting the settings dialed in using a third party printer. Onyx is pretty pricy at ~USD $300 for only 800 grams. Lots carbon fiber filled filaments out there for less.
Printing nylon requires drying the filament in an oven (not the one you cook with) for several hours, and preferably some sort of sealed spool holder when printing. The printer has to be able to handle higher temps, and if you want to use carbon fiber, the nozzle has to be hardened steel. If you look up the specs on the printer/extruder, and the filament that you want to use, you will see if they are compatible. Garrolite is usually recommended as a print bed surface.
Sometimes pushing a printer to its limits can screw things up. if you are sharing the printer with others, you might want to make sure that folks are ok with the experiment. As you probably know, FDM printers are pretty finicky, especially if you are running anything other than PLA through them.
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jbas: If you plan to use carbon fiber and want smoothness, make sure that you lubricate the drag washers with an appropriate grease with PTFE. If your goal is smoothness, Rulon is a good material. Delrin is almost as smooth, but melts at a lower temperature - probably fine for carp fishing. Delrin is easy to work with.
If you search this site, there is lots of good information on drag to line test ratios. 10% is on the low side for a max drag setting (30% is more common), but lower settings can be preferable for specific fishing situations, or to stay within the reel's mechanical limitations. I would suggest measuring straight off the reel and again with the rod fully loaded. That way you will know how much the drag will vary when you change rod angle.
-J