I picked up a Komodo KDS-463 about 2.5 years ago for tossing plugs and irons inshore in Baja. Caught a bunch of dorado, snappers, grouper, yellowtail and smaller tuna with it. Mostly casting, but some drop jigging of irons up to 4 oz. This reel was fished hard out of a panga for about 60 days over two seasons. I am a bit rough on my gear, but the local captains are even worse. The reel had more than a few chips and blue streaks where the gunnel paint rubbed off. Panga years are kind of like dog years when it comes to fishing tackle.
When the reel first arrived as new, I popped it open to confirm that the innards were relatively well lubed, and that the drag washers were greased as well. I did not perform any pre-service.
Out of extreme laziness In the interest of science, I did not perform any maintenance on the reel for the whole two years other than occasionally oiling the spool bearings and the levelwind with the oil that came with the reel. I did however soak the reel in freshwater for about 20 minutes, once a week when fishing it.
Over time, the level wind worm got pretty gummed up. Casting distance was significantly shortened – it needed to be taken apart and cleaned (but wasn't :) ). The reel would not go from freespool into gear by turning the handle after day 50 or so, but the lever (thumb bar) could still be used to engage.
When I took the reel apart last week, I was pleasantly surprised. I performed a full service, and the process matched John Tuttle's excellent tutorial for the Komodo 364 here https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=17311.0 (https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=17311.0). So I am going to refer to John's tutorial for all the steps and provide a review of what I found. The 463 Schematic can be found here: https://www.okumafishing.com/Templates/att/KDS-463-Parts-list.pdf?lng=enon (https://www.okumafishing.com/Templates/att/KDS-463-Parts-list.pdf?lng=enon)
1. Salt buildup was minimal on most of the reel. The handle arm to gearshaft junction did have significant salt buildup, and probably would have started corroding if left much longer.
2. Although the right sideplate has a drain, there is a screw hole post that blocks the flow of some water to the drain. There was some salt buildup here and the spring was caked in salt. This is what was blocking the handle-driven engagement.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/11927_21_03_20_7_51_53.jpeg)
After disassembling and cleaning with Corrosion-x, the handle-driven engagement started to work but was still a bit too hard to engage. Slightly backing off the tension on the screws that hold the clutch cam (key 23) in place took care of that. The pocket that had previously collected the salt was filled with grease.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/11927_21_03_20_7_50_28.jpeg)
3. The freespool lever screws (key 52) were loose, and the metal lever underneath (key 54) was bent. This is due to the freespool lever only being supported on one side. Easy enough to bend back, but the lever should be better supported, especially considering the heavy spring load used in the Komodo to prevent the reel from going into gear during a cast. Not a great design choice in my opinion, but not fatal.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/11927_21_03_20_7_56_49.jpeg)
4. I was most worried about the one-way bearing. It looked fine. I tried to press it out to check for corrosion but ended up popping out just the inner race and rollers. After getting the outer race out, I slid the inner race back in place. To my surprise, it worked fine. I ordered a new part from Okuma ( there is no key or part number for the one-way bearing – but they are stocked. I think that Okuma includes the one-way bearing with a replacement sideplate). The bearing will press in/out without too much drama if you are comfortable with press fitting, but you need a good fit on whatever you are using to push out the bearing. Not much of the outer race is exposed to the outside of the right sideplate. I decided not to screw up any more and used a socket (as in socket wrench) with an OD a hair under 16 mm to push the bearing out and in. I had to lay the sideplate on a soft wood block and use a bit of force with a hammer to tap out the old race. Once the pocket was cleaned and greased, the bearing could be pushed in and out with just a bit of force. A pretty good fit for a painted surface.
The one-way bearing is a standard size hex style (10x16x12). There are lots of one-ways available in this size, but all the ones I found online have plastic springs instead of stainless, and have less rollers, so I suspect that the Okuma stock part has a higher torque rating.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/11927_21_03_20_7_54_25.jpeg)
Just for fun, I tried greasing the old one-way bearing, put it back in the reel and it slipped under very light load. I removed the grease, and it started working again.
5. As delivered, the drag star had to be nearly bottomed out before it would provide any significant drag. I added a third spring washer (key 95) and stacked the springs all cupped - ))) - much better. The drag ramps up faster, and there was plenty of space left when I got the drag up to about 12 pounds or so.
6. The power knob assembly is not included in the schematic, but it has the same part layout as the paddle style knob. There are no ball bearings in the knob (yessss!!!). The screw inside the knob assembly (key 101) is held with blue loctite, and is in a deep pocket, requiring a quality screwdriver to remove.
7. Buttoned the reel back up- with some extra grease around the handle nut. Rubbed off all the blue gunnel paint. The reel looks to be in fine functional shape, albeit with more than a few battle scars.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/32/11927_22_03_20_9_54_55.jpeg)
Conclusions:
- I attribute the lack of corrosion damage despite the abuse to soaking the reel in freshwater (sorry :) ). But soaking is not a substitute for maintenance. I was just buying time. It seems that spots where the salt water can collect and mix with grease are tough to de-salt without removing the old grease. I cannot prove it, but I would be surprised if the reel would be in such good shape if I had only performed a light external freshwater rinse. Still, I don't plan to push my luck, and will do at least a yearly full maintenance on this reel.
- While the drive train held up very well (I couldn't see any sign of wear), the freespool/clutch engagement mechanism is not as robust. It still works, but I suspect that it will be the part of the reel that goes first. Too many nylon moving parts wearing against painted cast aluminum.
- Non- disengaging levelwinds like the Komodo are supposed to be more robust, even if they do not cast as far as disengaging levelwinds. But in order to cast reasonably well, the worm must be kept clean AND lubricated, which is a pain, as oil is a dirt magnet. I am going to try straight Corrosion-x, instead of oil on the worm, and apply it frequently.
- I am wondering if the Daiwa Lexa with the disengaging level wind and freespool clutch mechanism with metal parts is the smarter way to go in terms of design.
The Shimano Tranx and the Komodo have very similar designs [Update- the Tranx and Komodo have the centrifugal brake that requires removing the sideplate to adjust, the Lexa has a magnetic brake with an external adjustment knob. Only the Komodo has a synchronized levelwind] , so if I were to try another saltwater levelwind, it would probably be the Lexa.
- I suspect that all of the low profile saltwater levelwinds will need more maintenance and will not last as long as a standard star drag casting reel. Cor has some great posts on the Tranx that come to this conclusion. I really like fishing this type of reel for any type of lure work where you cannot keep a consistent tension packing the line on the reel, especially with braid. If you are allergic to spinning reels like I am, this is the best choice for this style of fishing. For now, the Komodo stays at the front of the rotation, even though I hate equipment that needs to be pampered. Combined with a casting rod with a palming reel seat, it is just too much fun to give up on.
Oh, and the folks at Okuma USA were friendly and helpful. It took forever to get off hold, but as soon as I reached a human, I was quickly routed to a very knowledgeable tech that set me up with the parts, and provided the tip on backing off the clutch cam screws to help fix the sticky freespool lever.
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on March 23, 2020, 04:51:32 AM
This is due to the freespool lever only being supported on one side. Easy enough to bend back, but the lever should be better supported, especially considering the heavy spring load used in the Komodo to prevent the reel from going into gear during a cast. Not a great design choice in my opinion, but not fatal.
A lot of Shimanos are like that too. It has been the downfall of the original Calcuttas. A new thumb bar only comes as part of a new frame.
Nice work-up. Maintenance requirements are not given enough weight in the overall evaluation of a reel. Maintenance is time and time is money.
-steve
Nice write up jurelometer!
It sounds like you fish a bit like I do, though I try to keep my equipment functioning smoothly and service reels somewhat more regularly without pampering, particularly so with the Tranx's.
I use Corrosion X on my level wind, clean and oil weekly, without dismantling and still need to replace the Line Guide Pawl twice per year and Worm Shaft once. On top of that the end spacers and bushings also need constant shimming and occasional replacement.
I've also twice had breakages of the Line guide pawl cap.
On my oldest Tranx the thumb bar started to jam, this is the result of flex in the bar and some wear on the side supports (plastic) I removed the latter and the problem went away with them...lol If you place your finger nearest the supported side of the thumb bar, it flexes less and becomes much less of a problem.
I often get asked if I would recommend the Tranx for this type of spin fishing, and by and large my reply is that these reels have served me well, they are light strong and easy to fish, but they are not ideal as they require too much maintenance and expense to maintain. This is mainly a level wind issue which was expected when I bought them.
It is nice to hear that the Komodo has also survived exceptionally wel.....judging from your description.
Great thorough report. 8)
Quote from: jurelometer on March 23, 2020, 04:51:32 AM......... Panga years are kind of like dog years when it comes to fishing tackle.
-J
finally someone that really knows how is dealing with fishing gear on pangas, nice writte up amigo.
I have the komodo 364 1st gen and still going strong, not as many trips like yours but feels really solid.
That is a great walk though! Thanks! - John
Quote from: steelfish on March 24, 2020, 11:50:13 PM
Quote from: jurelometer on March 23, 2020, 04:51:32 AM......... Panga years are kind of like dog years when it comes to fishing tackle.
-J
finally someone that really knows how is dealing with fishing gear on pangas, nice writte up amigo.
I have the komodo 364 1st gen and still going strong, not as many trips like yours but feels really solid.
I remember asking a captain to try out a new lure design for me with the Komodo outfit. We were run and gunning for yellowtail, and he would toss the rod between himself and the console when driving the boat. I can still see the anchor chain slapping against the reel (yes, that is also where he sticks the anchor when he is in a hurry). Ouch
The old school pangeros know what they are doing. They don't carry a bunch of extra junk on the boat, keep everything minimal, and don't put up with gear that is not durable. I like to fish with these guys. If my Komodo could talk, it might not agree :)
I wonder if posting this has voided my wararanty...
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on March 25, 2020, 01:23:46 AM
The old school pangeros know what they are doing. ...... I like to fish with these guys.
I wonder if posting this has voided my wararanty...
-J
Old school pangeros rule !!
hint !! you might still have your warranty valid, I know an old school pangero that from time to time take the guys from phenix rods and seeker rods fishing out in Gonzaga bay on his modified panga, he say that not all guys from phenix rods like to fish on pangas but there is a small group at the factory that prefer fish on a panga with a good captain than fishing on a big boat with 20 guys, same with few guys from the R&D seeker factory, I think they perform a kind of "torture test" on their rods LOL
Quote from: oc1 on March 23, 2020, 05:57:42 AM
Quote from: jurelometer on March 23, 2020, 04:51:32 AM
This is due to the freespool lever only being supported on one side. Easy enough to bend back, but the lever should be better supported, especially considering the heavy spring load used in the Komodo to prevent the reel from going into gear during a cast. Not a great design choice in my opinion, but not fatal.
A lot of Shimanos are like that too. It has been the downfall of the original Calcuttas. A new thumb bar only comes as part of a new frame.
I think Steve hit the nail on the head. These saltwater low-profiles are essentially beefed up bass reels, not a fresh design. I wish they had applied as much attention to the whole reel as they did the drive train.
Quote from: Cor on March 23, 2020, 06:55:24 AM
I use Corrosion X on my level wind, clean and oil weekly, without dismantling and still need to replace the Line Guide Pawl twice per year and Worm Shaft once. On top of that the end spacers and bushings also need constant shimming and occasional replacement.
I've also twice had breakages of the Line guide pawl cap.
Yikes! I wonder if that is what is going to happen to my Komodo once I start to catch up with your Tranx's in fishing hours. The worm on Komodo looks fine. I did not look at the pawl parts closely, but everything feels smooth. I fear that my future is going to look like your present....
I was thinking that a non disengaging levelwind like a Lexa might be the ticket, but I found the equation for vector load that would show how much lateral force is on the levelwind when it is on one side of the spool, and the line is at the other. The number was really high. I am going to try some tests with a scale before I post any math that might end up being way off. But if I am using the right formula, it means that a disengaging levelwind is taking a pretty big pulsing angular load if the drag is set high.
Maybe a better saltwater low profile design would treat levelwind parts as easy to replace consumables with bushing/bearings where appropriate, and not build sliding surfaces and shafts into a cast aluminum body. I guess that most people don't fish enough hours nowadays to make it worthwhile to the manufacturers to build a durable reel. It must drive the charter guys crazy.
I didn't know that has a synchronous levelwind. Why would they do that? A disengaging levelwind will cast farther and requires a lot less maintenance.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on March 27, 2020, 09:48:31 AM
I didn't know that has a synchronous levelwind. Why would they do that? A disengaging levelwind will cast farther and requires a lot less maintenance.
-steve
For some people casting is just not as important as for others so they have different priorities, like the fact that a non synchronized level winder takes much more stress because the line is often not aligned with the line guide. I for one never understood that until someone on the site pointed it out to me.
Some other larger synchronized level winding reels that mates have don't wear out so much, Daiwa Saltist 40 and Quantum Cabo come to mind. I don't own these but both of them cast pretty well.
Quote from: Cor on March 23, 2020, 06:55:24 AM
I use Corrosion X on my level wind, clean and oil weekly, without dismantling and still need to replace the Line Guide Pawl twice per year and Worm Shaft once. On top of that the end spacers and bushings also need constant shimming and occasional replacement.
I've also twice had breakages of the Line guide pawl cap.
Yikes! I wonder if that is what is going to happen to my Komodo once I start to catch up with your Tranx's in fishing hours. The worm on Komodo looks fine. I did not look at the pawl parts closely, but everything feels smooth. I fear that my future is going to look like your present....
[/quote]
Not likely, I just do an extraordinary amount of fishing, or actually used to. Last three years I managed only about half of what I used to, also our fish have become much less, in my opinion due to climate change. I already notice I had to replace fewer parts.
I just made a photo of some worn Worm Shafts, look at the ends where they run in plastic bushes, makes me think I need more lubrication.
Quote from: oc1 on March 27, 2020, 09:48:31 AM
I didn't know that has a synchronous levelwind. Why would they do that? A disengaging levelwind will cast farther and requires a lot less maintenance.
-steve
As you know, when a disengaging levelwind is in gear, the line is not being pulled straight through the eye in the levelwind pawl to the spool, it is being pulled at varying angles. If the drag is set high, the amount of force on the pawl can be substantial when fighting fish. This force is at an angle (not lengthwise along the shaft) that is constantly changing as you wind, or as line is being taken out. Sort of like grabbing the pawl with a pair of pliers and twisting it over and over.
I just noticed that the Tranx 400 has a disengaging levelwind! So all the wear that Cornelius is experiencing may be more evidence that the theoretical issue of load on the levelwind could manifest in actual use.
My Komodo with a non-disengaging levelwind casts like a rocket for my purposes when the worm is kept clean. I enjoy a good long huck, but I am not going for distance records. What I mostly lose in performance is the ability to cast lighter weights for distance. Almost everything that I am casting is one ounce or more on 65 lb braid. Trading off durabiity to be able to cast lighter lures farther is not worth it for me. But I do have to keep the worm clean and oil the bearings.
To be fair, Cor and myself are probably outliers in terms of use (especially Cor!). If somebody uses a saltwater low-profile reel as their light rig for a few day trips a month in the spring/summer, and then maybe a long range trip or three per year, it could take many years to wear out these reels, and by then most are ready to move on to the next hot reel.
BTW, I am not specifically recommending the Komodo over the other choices. I purchased the Komodo because the schematics and tutorials made it look like a toss-up with the Lexa and Tranx, but it cost 1/3 less at the time. I don't have any firsthand experience with the other reels. I do admit to having some lust in my heart for the Lexa HD, but that is probably just a grass-is-greener thing.
And when I don't need a levelwind in a reel this size, my very old Newell 220 is a better reel. Just missing a cast control so that I can huck braid with impunity when the fish are boiling and I am a bit too amped up.
-J
QuoteJust missing a cast control so that I can huck braid with impunity when the fish are boiling and I am a bit too amped up.
So true! :D
Great post! So I'mina change my casting technique. I usually have time to pull line while in free spool as the spoon or jig sinks when using the Revo Toro Beast(non-disengaging LW). Try to get the line commin off the spool even with the line guide before cranking it into gear. The spool is relatively narrow so the engineers probably figured-no need to make it disengaging.
3 years at about once/week on the beast, no wear issues yet...
Hah! :D
I think Shimano had some relatively advanced cast controls on some of the old Trinidads that have now fallen by the way.
They may have had it right but fisherman are too stuck in their ways to figure it out and they discontinued them.
Casting braid with a conventional reel is the nut. Either spend years educating your thumb (boring AF) or swing a modern large LP reel. Done.
Convenience = complexity, wear and maintenance. Who knew?
Maybe I'll build me a pro-challenger with mag control?
Who wants to sell me a Jig Master 501 with aluminum spool?
:D ;D :D ;D
Quote from: redsetta on March 28, 2020, 02:54:18 AM
QuoteJust missing a cast control so that I can huck braid with impunity when the fish are boiling and I am a bit too amped up.
So true! :D
I just re read this thread.
For about 3 years I fished my Tranx reels with only a static mag and I dare say that worked pretty well. Could cast 85 yds constantly for a number of hours without any significant thumb action by getting the fit of the magnet just right. Its a simple trial and error construction and well worth doing. The problem arose when conditions changed, mainly the wind.
A year ago I decided to fit an adjustable mag to one of the reels. This hit the jackpot. A small adjustment to compensate for wind or casting weight changes became possible. I designed the construction which is complicated by (what Shimano call VBS system) It's simply a rotating disk that locks the side plate in place but it is in the way of the mag's adjusting shaft/axle. As I don't have machine tools suitable for such a job I asked a friend to manufacture and fit the mag.
When I saw how much better this cast, I also removed the braid and spooled the one reel with 0.5mm mono 43lb and this setup now gives me a good 25 yds further cast (110 yds with a just short of 11 ft rod) It is a very noticeable improvement in distance and outcasts most others around using the same class tackle.
Cool.
Mag is da' shizz for distance casting.
Brakes best for light stuff.
Both (adjustable) is the best of both worlds (ie huck a sardine or a popper).
Dave, your first pic. shows the crank shaft with a bearing plate(#78) at the bottom and there's a ball bearing(#77) underneath that. How was the condition of that one, given that it's kind of a sump for saltwater there?
"In the interest of science" 😄, I godda use that one!
Quote from: Gfish on July 04, 2021, 10:00:58 PMDave, your first pic. shows the crank shaft with a bearing plate(#78) at the bottom and there's a ball bearing(#77) underneath that. How was the condition of that one, given that it's kind of a sump for saltwater there?
"In the interest of science" 😄, I godda use that one!
Sorry, just saw this. The handle shaft bearing was fine. The reel is wide and low, so it is pretty much impossible to store it in such a way that water will collect there, especially with the drain holes.
I should also highlight that I soak my saltwater reels in warm fresh water about once a week when fishing them. This is not a popular strategy here, but good ol' science backs me up,both in terms of how quickly a small amount of saltwater diffuses in a large amount of fresh water, and that the metals at highest risk to saltwater corrosion (the type of stainless used in bearings and roller clutches) are very resistant to freshwater corrosion.
I probably would not soak a "sealed" spinner or fly reel, but a well ported reel that can be dried out afterward is a no brainer for freshwater soaking as fas as I am concerned.
Just serviced the Komodo again after sitting for a couple years, fishing for about 30 days,and then back on the shelf for six months. Everything was in good shape except for the roller clutch (one way bearing) acquiring some rust on the cage.
Just for grins, I greased up the clutch so that it would slip to allow me to test the silent dog "backup". Dog worked fine until the drag was cranked down, and then it became unreliable. I had to clear the excess grease from the ratchet and fiddle with the dog ear tension, but got it working after reassembling the reel three times (blech).
I wish the reel had a good old-fashioned sprung dog instead of the corrosion magnet roller clutch (one way bearing), backed up by a nearly as unreliable silent dog. But then they probably wouldn't sell as well :)
-J
You can thank Abu for those silent dogs!
Ha slight zombie thread. I was excited seeing John Tuttle posting again. But it was good reading this again.
Finally broke something on the Komodo. Shredded the threads on the drag star. The star is aluminum, and the shaft is extra fine threaded, with two flat cut into it. When I set the drag to 11 on a 1 to 10 scale to stop some bigger snappers in the in the shallows, the shaft started acting like a tap, cutting new threads into the star and stripping it.
This is a design flaw, but an intentional one. Customers prefer drags that can be fine tuned, and also want a high max drag. Okuma accommodated customer demand by using extra fine threads, when course threads would probably have held in my situation.
Saltwater low profile reels supporting high max drag don't really functionally benefit from being able to micro tune the drag, especially at higher settings.
Another case of the fishing consumer getting what they asked for instead of what they needed...
(https://alantani.com/gallery/38/11927-240923204234.jpeg)
As for the rest of the reel, I ordered up a new yoke and other plastic guts, plus a couple springs for the eccentric along with a couple new stars.
It turns out that I didn't need any new parts other than the star. The yoke, levelwind and other parts, that I would expect to wear are all in excellent condition. With a bit of tweaking, I even managed to get the auto engage, working like new.
Okuma USA has a good online parts ordering system. New parts were reasonably priced and shipped in a little over a week. Without the parts system, my reel would be a paperweight right now.
After nearly 100 days of panga abuse spread over five or six years, it ain't so pretty any more, but is still in very good functional condition. I would soak the reel in fresh water regularly, and keep a eye one the one way bearing (blech), but otherwise was pretty rough on the reel.
Gotta score one for Okuma here. I have a Daiwa Lexa that I planned to try after I killed the Komodo, but now I'm going to have to come up with a new plan ;)
-J
Thanks very much for these updates, Dave.
Despite the well meaning intentions of erstwhile reviewers like myself the amount of saltwater days fished in NorCal are just too few and far between to wear any fishing gear out it seems.
But nothing beats time on the water to assess a design and find the flaws, both predicted and unknown, a reel may possess. So props to you! :)
Doubt most fishos would find much objectively different between Revo Beast, Komoda, Lexa or Tranx...just a number of check and balancing acts versus cost. All of them fine reels.
All in all about the most fun you can have casting conventional reels on the water, imo, and it turns out they work decently for deepish jigging too.
Great report Dave. Don't have an Okuma reel, hmmmm. You can sell me the Lexa. Naw, just kidding I had one and put some miles on it, but I think I like my R. T. Beast better with more casting adjustments avalible..
Just spent 1/2 an hour re reading this thread!
Was looking up the retrieve rate of these reels and found this video on the Okuma site.
Innards remarkably similar to the Tranx. I could be tempted to buy one, but I find the retrieve too slow.
I think what makes the Komodo unique amongst its peers is the non-disengaging levelwind. Makes for much less stress on the worm and levelwind gears when the fish is taking line and the first couple of turns under load. My worm and levelwind gears are in great shape. I was going to order some backup worm parts, but didn't bother.
Some reviewers ding the Komodo for the non-disengaging levelwind, as it can affect casting distance. I still get plenty of distance, but I am usually casting at least 1 1/2 to 2 oz lures.
There are some design tradeoffs in the various brands which might affect which one you chose. The Lexa has a disengaging levelwind. I think that the Tranx does too. Not sure about the other brands. You also have to undo the left sideplate to adjust the cast control on the Komodo, which means that I never adjust the cast control. I like that external mag knob on the Lexa.
One other maintenance note: I have seen comments on the web about the Komodo not kicking out of freespool when you turn the handle. The bottom spring (key 27) has a short leg and a long leg. If you put the wrong (short?) leg in the kick lever hole (Key #26), you will get this symptom (don't ask me how I know :) ) It is also useful to put a gob of grease over the spring coil, as this is a spot that traps water on the frame and can lead to corrosion and a sticky thumb bar.
I place a high premium on durable gear, but have to agree with John and Cornelius. There is a huge swath of saltwater fishing applications that are perfect for these low profile saltwater levelwinds. And just too much fun. Coupled with a modern casting rod with a palming trigger reel seat, you can do anything from live baiting to cranking jigs, poppers, drop/slow pitch jigging, you name it.
-J
We run a Komodo (non-SS) 364 and a Lexa 300HS-P, both have done exceptional service for years with minimal maintenance and caught fish that go well beyond what could be reasonably expected of a 300-size baitcaster. The Lexa has just needed its first bearing done (main driveshaft bearing got a little noisy) after 3 years and probably well over 100 trips.
Quote from: jurelometer on September 24, 2023, 08:02:42 PMI think what makes the Komodo unique amongst its peers is the non-disengaging levelwind. Makes for much less stress on the worm and levelwind gears when the fish is taking line and the first couple of turns under load. My worm and levelwind gears are in great shape. I was going to order some backup worm parts, but didn't bother.
Some reviewers ding the Komodo for the non-disengaging levelwind, as it can affect casting distance. I still get plenty of distance, but I am usually casting at least 1 1/2 to 2 oz lures.
There are some design tradeoffs in the various brands which might affect which one you chose. The Lexa has a disengaging levelwind. I think that the Tranx does too. Not sure about the other brands. You also have to undo the left sideplate to adjust the cast control on the Komodo, which means that I never adjust the cast control. I like that external mag knob on the Lexa.
One other maintenance note: I have seen comments on the web about the Komodo not kicking out of freespool when you turn the handle. The bottom spring (key 27) has a short leg and a long leg. If you put the wrong (short?) leg in the kick lever hole (Key #26), you will get this symptom (don't ask me how I know :) ) It is also useful to put a gob of grease over the spring coil, as this is a spot that traps water on the frame and can lead to corrosion and a sticky thumb bar.
I place a high premium on durable gear, but have to agree with John and Cornelius. There is a huge swath of saltwater fishing applications that are perfect for these low profile saltwater levelwinds. And just too much fun. Coupled with a modern casting rod with a palming trigger reel seat, you can do anything from live baiting to cranking jigs, poppers, drop/slow pitch jigging, you name it.
-J
The Komodo is a shorter design, front to back, and may require the non-disengaging level wind as the forces would be higher than more stretched designs like the Lexa or Revo Beast. Otherwise, the high angles may really affect the Komodo's casting.
Does the shorter frame lead to a more rigid design? Hard to say. All of these reels have been tested on big hard pulling fish and the worst I hear are Wahoo due to the wind wind wind whether making progress or not that anglers employ. This seems to wear out a few Tranx due to frame flex and consequent gear misalignment.
Lexa T-wing will be my next purchase to give that a trial.
Quote from: johndtuttle on September 25, 2023, 02:30:17 PMThe Komodo is a shorter design, front to back, and may require the non-disengaging level wind as the forces would be higher than more stretched designs like the Lexa or Revo Beast. Otherwise, the high angles may really affect the Komodo's casting.
Does the shorter frame lead to a more rigid design? Hard to say. All of these reels have been tested on big hard pulling fish and the worst I hear are Wahoo due to the wind wind wind whether making progress or not that anglers employ. This seems to wear out a few Tranx due to frame flex and consequent gear misalignment.
Lexa T-wing will be my next purchase to give that a trial.
I would wager that the more consequential choice of engaging vs non-disengaging levelwind came first, but agree that these are interrelated design tradeoffs (plus spool width). The overall length of the Lexa and Komodo 400 series are pretty much the same. Lexa extends the levelwind out in front of the worm quite a bit to accomplish this. Seems kind of sketchy, but what do I know?
I don't think that frame flex is an issue in any of these reels. If that was the case, the the load on the levelwind would be tremendous- enough to transfer load capable of flexing the frame, and would destroy the worm/levelwind/levelwind gears in short order. The worm/levelwind is designed to have a ton of backlash (freeplay) to allow for easier retrieve winding without binding - but this makes these mechanisms susceptible for twisting under load.
These reels are low and narrow enough that the twisting load should be negligible at 20 lbs or so of drag. If there was any frame twisting, the pinion and main gear would move somewhat in unison, and spool/frame scraping should be the first symptom.
Shimano (Tranx 500) neglected to put a ball bearing on the handle end of the shaft. Okuma Komodo has a ball bearing nested in the sideplate. So Shimano is using the one-way "bearing" halfway down the main shaft to sort of help keep the shafts aligned. One way bearings are not bearings. They need a loose fit to do their job, and are not capable of handling this type of load.
When you wind a helical gear pair under load, a significant percentage of the radial load is transferred to axial load, and the curved path of the teeth further contribute to pushing unsupported shafts apart and forcing the load to the tooth ends of one of the gears. This unsupported shaft with helical gear pairs is the Achilles heel of the classic star drag designs. Shimano was one of the first brands to start putting a ball bearing on the sideplate to address this, but it seems that they forgot about this for the Tranx- or more likely tossed it because the reel was already getting too wide- a problem with these larger low-profile reels.
While the Komodo/Lexa/Tranx reels are all very similar, there are a couple key decisions that Okuma made that I think were the right ones for strength and durability: a synchronized levelwind, a main shaft ball bearing on the sideplate, and replacement parts availability to compensate for any design missteps (e.g. star threads stripping). I haven't fished the other reels, so I am not going to take a position on which ones is better in total.
I haven't caught a lot of wahoo, and all of mine were on a Jigmaster, but I remember just waiting for that one single fast run to finish and then winding in the wahoo with no drama. As long as you didn't run out of line or get sharked, it wasn't so tricky. Who keeps winding when you are not gaining line? Wonder what these long rangers are up to. But if you keep winding without gaining line, you are keeping any shaft misalignment in place, increasing the odds of shredding gears when you start taking line on the wind.
-J
"Wind wind wind..." is the LR mantra for Wahoo. It supposedly lands more fish because the bony mouth is often not penetrated through by the hook. Keeping tension 100% is essential as far as the LR fleet is concerned and I've heard more than one boat exhort their sportos to keep winding.
Quote from: johndtuttle on September 25, 2023, 08:03:15 PM"Wind wind wind..." is the LR mantra for Wahoo. It supposedly lands more fish because the bony mouth is often not penetrated through by the hook. Keeping tension 100% is essential as far as the LR fleet is concerned and I've heard more than one boat exhort their sportos to keep winding.
The place where I grew up fishing for Yellowtail the older guys were always mentoring the youngsters. This was one of many rules I was taught, keep on winding when you see a Yellowtail take your lure, do not lift the rod before you feel him solidly on.
The reason is that firstly the fish often take the lure from behind at speed and then create a slack in the line before they turn and secondly we nearly always fish in fairly strong side wind with a significant bow in the line which is then already slack when the fish gets it in his mouth.
Some other "rules" affected those fishing around you and beware, some of those guys in days gone bye would think nothing of giving a youngster a clip around the ears when he did something considered stupid. ;)
Quote from: johndtuttle on September 25, 2023, 08:03:15 PM"Wind wind wind..." is the LR mantra for Wahoo. It supposedly lands more fish because the bony mouth is often not penetrated through by the hook. Keeping tension 100% is essential as far as the LR fleet is concerned and I've heard more than one boat exhort their sportos to keep winding.
Heehee. Of course, winding when not taking line is not increasing the load, but at least the message is simple.
Brings back memories:
Every rookie party boat customer: "I have a fish on, what do I do?"
Every partyboat deckhand: "Turn the handle." ;D
-J
Reading thru this makes me wonder if the old Penn 525 Mag wouldn't work well for this application. (I'm not up on the durability of the 525, but I have three and they seem to be sturdy).
Quote from: Rancanfish on November 29, 2023, 05:02:17 PMReading thru this makes me wonder if the old Penn 525 Mag wouldn't work well for this application. (I'm not up on the durability of the 525, but I have three and they seem to be sturdy).
I always admired those 525 Mags (except for the one way bearing), but never tried one. As mentioned earlier, I have a similar sized Newell 220 that I consider in many ways to be a better reel than the Komodo, but it stays at home most of the time as the the levelwind covers more situations, and I have more fun fishing it.
I used to think of levelwinds on saltwater casting reels as sort of like training wheels. But one I got into throwing poppers at tuna and dorado with braid, I tried a low profile levelwind, and I ain't going back.
Much more ergonomic to use, and you can get a much faster retrieve with less work. It is impossible to wind fast, jerk the popper, and not have a mess on the spool that is going to birdsnest on the next cast. Same advantages with modern drop jigging. Anything where the line tension fluctuates on the retrieve. This what I think the setup should look like:
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/11927_12_01_21_12_00_28.jpeg)
Which reminds me: I should post another update. Busted a second part on the Komodo before my latest trip. Took a new Daiwa Lexa 400 with me, and can now make some comparisons.
-J
What speed for the Lexa 400?
I like the ones around 6:1- for both my Komodo and Lexa, but I think 7:1 is the most popular ratio in this size. There are even 5:1 and 8:1 Lexas! Daiwa has a bigger set of choices. It is a tradeoff from hooking more fish by being able to wind lures faster and being able to land the bigger ones that you hook.
All these ratios :) , now 40" per handle turn makes a lot more sense.
Quote from: jurelometer on November 29, 2023, 08:12:41 PMMuch more ergonomic to use, and you can get a much faster retrieve with less work. It is impossible to wind fast, jerk the popper, and not have a mess on the spool that is going to birdsnest on the next cast. Same advantages with modern drop jigging. Anything where the line tension fluctuates on the retrieve.
You mean a spinning reel? :d
Quote from: boon on December 01, 2023, 12:06:16 AMQuote from: jurelometer on November 29, 2023, 08:12:41 PMMuch more ergonomic to use, and you can get a much faster retrieve with less work. It is impossible to wind fast, jerk the popper, and not have a mess on the spool that is going to birdsnest on the next cast. Same advantages with modern drop jigging. Anything where the line tension fluctuates on the retrieve.
You mean a spinning reel? :d
On my personal 1-10 fun scale, I would give spinning reels a 0.5. Just the thought of watching the rotor go round and around, and that spool going back and forth... blech.
But for folks that like their reels upside down, I hear that a spinner is a good solution :d
-J
I ended up with a few spinners, they are OK for tossing light jigs and lures but not my favorit.
I prefer spinners for poppers and stickbaits. For surface iron I prefer a levelwind. I have the Lexa 400 HD and TW, both 7:1, and the TranX 500 HG's. I prefer the HD over the TW... it feels stronger. The TW is a gimmick to allow the levelwind to be closer to the spool. It doesn't seem to cast any better than the HD to me.
You can't beat a spinner for that first quick cast when you see/hear something going-on, and/or when fishing in the dark. One adjustment; the drag. Maybe it's just me, but I've backlashed too many times on the first cast(baitcaster), unless I have time to start-out slowly with very short casts and make adjustments.
After a few years every thread becomes tempted to turn into a baitcast vs spinners debate.
I do not feel it is a debate, sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.
Both have their place, for me not so much for spinners. I trout and kokanee fish with Curado and Calcutta 50 level wind reels. The only thing I use a spinner for (and then rarely) is mini micro jigs for kokanee.
Its my fault. I took the bait. On my own thread too :) While I like to razz the spinner fans, I am going to restrain myself and get back on the Komodo to keep this thread on topic for future readers. Request that others do likewise.
-J
Come on, you are no fun.
Setting aside me giving J a gentle ribbing, I just think it's funny (perhaps ironic?) that many more traditional anglers regard these modern saltwater baitcasters in the same way. Fiddly, overcomplicated things suitable only for throwing small lures to lake bass from a jon boat, rather than the extremely capable fish-catchers we know them to be.
I find it hard these days to recommend anything other than a saltwater baitcaster to any angler that prefers an overhead reel. The combination of ergonomics (weight, size), ease of use, and performance is hard to beat.
One thing that is difficult is finding a rod that is capable of making use of the full performance on offer while still balancing nicely with such a small, light reel; also the line weight required to do so can mean limited capacity.
Quote from: boon on December 04, 2023, 12:59:28 AMSetting aside me giving J a gentle ribbing, I just think it's funny (perhaps ironic?) that many more traditional anglers regard these modern saltwater baitcasters in the same way. Fiddly, overcomplicated (This is me, up to here) things suitable only for throwing small lures to lake bass from a jon boat, rather than the extremely capable fish-catchers we know them to be. ( I see no different limit to the casting weight then any other reel)
I find it hard these days to recommend anything other than a saltwater baitcaster to any angler that prefers an overhead reel. The combination of ergonomics (weight, size), ease of use, and performance is hard to beat. (I am not 100% sure on ease of use, but then its what you are used to. I hate spinning reels which most people find easy to use to prove that point)
One thing that is difficult is finding a rod that is capable of making use of the full performance on offer while still balancing nicely with such a small, light reel; also the line weight required to do so can mean limited capacity. (I use a variety of rods that I would normally use with a 40 spooled overhead reel as well. I have in general been reducing the weight of my tackle and do prefer somewhat lighter rods now to what I used 20 Y ago and cast anything from around 50 to 95 gr with the same Tranx 500)
I honestly believe it is just what you are accustomed to.
Some guys pick up a spinning rig go fishing and catch a fish which the would not likely have done with a conventional rig. I dislike the tackle and have no intention of changing while others swear by it. My one mate has been struggling for two seasons to change over and still caries 2 rigs, one of each.
Quote from: jurelometer on November 29, 2023, 08:12:41 PMWhich reminds me: I should post another update. Busted a second part on the Komodo before my latest trip. Took a new Daiwa Lexa 400 with me, and can now make some comparisons.
Here is what happened: As I finished the annual maintenance, and was rotating the left (palm) side plate into place, it went on crooked. Hmm... Took the sideplate apart and found that the screw mount pillar had broken off the sideplate.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/38/11927-100124033619.jpeg)
I think this is a bit of a design flaw. The part that holds the levelwind gears (key 63- Palm Sideplate Assembly) also has the tabs that centers and pulls/locks the palm sideplate (key 75) onto the frame. So much of that twisting load is transferred via a thin, tall screw mount post without much in the way of ribs. It levered right off the sideplate, just as you would expect. That sideplate has to come off every time that you need to adjust the cast control.
The sideplate mounting system could have been better thought out.
But Okuma sent a replacement sideplate ($USD 8.00) to me in about a week. And they sent the whole sideplate assembly instead of just the sideplate that I ordered. Which turned out to be useful, because the original levelwind idle gear (key 73) was getting pretty wobbly, something I hadn't noticed but should have. The worm and pawl parts were fine, which I attribute to the non-disengaging levelwind generating less stress.
Strangely enough, on the new assembly there was a nice fresh huge gob of what looked to be Yamamlube blue grease on the idler, which had to come off, since the idler gears turn during the cast. Probably shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, even if the teeth are greasy :)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/38/11927-100124033742.jpeg)
BTW, Okuma USA has a nice schematic driven parts ordering system, if you don't need a large volume of parts.
https://www.okumafishingpartsusa.com/ (https://www.okumafishingpartsusa.com/)
So back into the rotation it goes. But the Daiwa Lexa slipped into the starting lineup on the last trip, so now I can make a bit more of a comparison.
More on that next.
-J
Now comparing the Daiwa Lexa to the Okuma Komodo-
Both were the saltwater-ish 400 size with around 6.3:1 gear and close enough in weight and basic dimensions. Felt about the same when turning the handle when fishing.
A couple areas where the Daiwa was the winner.
1. Externally adjustable cast control- no need to take the sideplate off. Couldn't tell any performance difference between the Daiwa magnetic vs Okuma centrifugal systems, but I don't set it very high and am working with lures on the heavier side
2. Palm sideplate is held in place by a large external screw. This design looks to be more durable than the one that failed me on the Okuma.
3. A separate drag nut for the star. This is interesting. The schematics for the Lexa HD, and the photos from the tutorials here show a simple threaded aluminum star, just like the one that failed on my Okuma. But my fairly recent Lexa HD has the fancier and more rugged setup that is in the schematic for the T-Wing Lexas, which looks pretty much like the star designed used on the fancier Shimano Star drag conventionals.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/38/11927-100124033905.jpeg)
Maybe Daiwa saw the same failure(s) and revised the design?
4. More rugged design. This may or may not equate to a more durable reel, as the reel is only as strong as it's weakest link. And rugged is a relative term. We are talking low profiles here. At least low profiles are tougher than your average spinner :)
Where the Okuma Komodo shines:
1. Non-disengaging levelwind. This is just about it, but it is a biggy. This is just more durable at higher drag settings.
Unlike the disengaging (in freespool) low profiles like the Lexa and Shimano Tranx, the Komodo's line tension is not constantly changing when dropping a jig in freespool, which is important for slow pitch and similar styles of jigging. When drop jigging, I enjoy using the Komodo, and strongly disliked using the Lexa. There are folk out there that will tell you that these reels are no good for working modern jigs. I would make an exception for the Komodo.
The non-disengaging levelwind casts plenty fine for me when kept clean and lubed, but I am not tossing anything under 1.5 oz for any distance. But this also seems to be a bit of a minority opinion
In summary, I would rather fish the Okuma over the Daiwa, but I think that all low profiles are a compromise in terms of durability. If there was a non-disengaging Lexa, I would probably lean toward the Daiwa. At least until something broke, and the Daiwa parts were expensive and hard to get...
-J
$8 for the complete side plate from Okuma? I shudder to think what that would cost from Daiwa or Shimano!
Quote from: MarkT on January 10, 2024, 05:43:58 AM$8 for the complete side plate from Okuma? I shudder to think what that would cost from Daiwa or Shimano!
All the Okuma parts that I have ordered have been very reasonably priced. I just wish I didn't have to order so many.
Okuma should be commended on their parts service, cost, and availability. I even was able to talk to a tech once to get a part that was not on the menu.
It looked to me like the Daiwa Lexa T-wing star assembly might fit on the Komodo, eliminating a failure point, but it was just too expensive (for the parts that I could find), and too much of a PITA to order. Maybe if I blow up the Lexa and can't get new parts, I will give it a try.
-J
Daiwa has moved to foothill ranch, near me, so I should be able to easily go there. I wonder is they sell parts there? Shimano doesn't but you can take reels in for service. The twin wing is, IMO, a gimmick to make the reel shorter without adding any capabilities beyond that. I still prefer the HD model for in the salt... it has all stainless gears.
Quote from: jurelometer on January 10, 2024, 05:37:27 AMNow comparing the Daiwa Lexa to the Okuma Komodo-
I should note that the rare earth magnets used in magnetic cast controls, such as the Lexa, are extremely sensitive to saltwater corrosion. if any scratch gets past the thin nickel plating, the magnet is toast. Centrifugal cast controls, such as in the Komodo, have an advantage in this regard.
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on January 10, 2024, 06:01:35 AMQuote from: MarkT on January 10, 2024, 05:43:58 AM$8 for the complete side plate from Okuma? I shudder to think what that would cost from Daiwa or Shimano!
All the Okuma parts that I have ordered have been very reasonably priced. I just wish I didn't have to order so many.
Okuma should be commended on their parts service, cost, and availability. I even was able to talk to a tech once to get a part that was not on the menu.
It looked to me like the Daiwa Lexa T-wing star assembly might fit on the Komodo, eliminating a failure point, but it was just too expensive (for the parts that I could find), and too much of a PITA to order. Maybe if I blow up the Lexa and can't get new parts, I will give it a try.
-J
I own one Okuma reel, a reel I have not liked much but despite it has given me fair service.
I suffered a few breakages and a badly balanced spool. Whenever I complained to the local agent about an issue, I would receive a replacement part(s) by courier all the way from China a week later, free of charge.
That happened twice so I can ditto the excellent service.
So I have a komodo open on my bench right now. Seeing under the hood makes me want one. This thing checks so many boxes. I can see why you like it. It may be my next purchase. But I may get the 273 for inshore/near shore use.