Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn Senator Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: Alto Mare on November 29, 2011, 10:00:00 PM

Title: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on November 29, 2011, 10:00:00 PM
I had some extra time today so I decided to play around with some reels. Is there anyone here that has ever installed a second dog on a Penn 114H? If it has been done already I won't even bother showing it. It seems that the dogs are engaging properly. Didn't put the reel back togheter to test it though, I need a couple of additional parts to complete it.  We'll see how that goes :-\.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: alantani on November 29, 2011, 11:01:01 PM
i'd love to see it!  as far as i know, it has not been done. 
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on November 29, 2011, 11:47:04 PM
I just put the right side plate on one of my other reel to test it and it's working great. You do need patience to assemble the bridge plate with the two dogs, but, it can be done. I used one of those older plates with the easy access drag system, I don't think I would try it with the later models. I will show some shots when I get a chance.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: redsetta on November 30, 2011, 12:09:16 AM
That's classic - I've been thinking about this for a while, but hadn't had the time yet to test it out.
I assumed one would need to Dremel out a little more room around the bottom of the left bridge screw and use a silent dog (rather than a dog/spring set-up).
Looking forward to seeing how you got it all to work.
Cheers, Justin
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: broadway on November 30, 2011, 12:17:21 AM
Sal,

      You're unbelievable... I never asked if you still work or are retired cause if you still work... you're my hero!
I would love to see how ya did it, so I can do it to my 114hlw's for sharkin'.
Thanks
Dom
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on November 30, 2011, 02:28:24 AM
Hey guys. Here's a couple of shots of what I did...
(https://i.imgur.com/4Jf9Opl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZOnYsiX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/anOcot8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oqVcgjc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5xN3iEo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HfdvnzE.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/j3XEGbg.jpg)
I didn't have time to label each picture but, I did want to point out that taping the screws in place helps a lot here. The added dog has the spring from a larger Senator (I think a 10/0). You need to drop the gear in before you place the dogs. You will need to use a small screw driver to position the dog so that the bridge plate will slide in. I'm sure that this process can be refined...it was my first attempt! Overall, the reel is a bit nosier due to the additional dog (but that's a small price to pay, considering). Yes, Justin, you were right, I used a dremel. Dom, thanks for always having kind words, I wish I was retired but I think that won't happen until they are lowering me down...6 ft. down...and as for being a hero, I can't claim that title (well, except for when I sneak some T-Bone into my dog's dish!)
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: wallacewt on November 30, 2011, 02:42:36 AM
goodonya sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: redsetta on November 30, 2011, 02:50:44 AM
That's great Sal, almost exactly as I imagined - a cracker job as always.
Quote...except for when I sneak some T-Bone into my dog's dish!
Good call! ;D
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Dominick on November 30, 2011, 03:06:48 AM
Salvatore, che è un grande lavoro.  Tu sei un bravo meccanico.  Ciao, Domenico
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on November 30, 2011, 03:10:34 AM
Quote from: Pescachaser on November 30, 2011, 03:06:48 AM
Salvatore, che è un grande lavoro.  Tu sei un bravo meccanico.  Ciao, Domenico
;D
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: George4741 on November 30, 2011, 03:33:15 AM
What a brilliant idea!  And you made it work, too!

Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Norcal Pescador on November 30, 2011, 04:10:50 AM
Sal, buon amico -

Is there anything you don't do successfully the first time?  Like Wallace said, "Goodonya!"
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: broadway on November 30, 2011, 05:06:15 AM
I know why you did this modification... someone double-dog dared ya ;D ;D
Great job, as always!
Dom
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: alantani on November 30, 2011, 05:55:31 AM
impressive!
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Irish Jigger on November 30, 2011, 09:24:13 AM
Nice work Alto,well done.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: broadway on November 30, 2011, 10:22:37 AM
So, Sal... wouldn't we be able to do any senator, now that you've blazed the trail for us?
Thanks
Dom
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on November 30, 2011, 11:07:52 AM
Dom, I though I was the only one up before 5 am ;D
I don't see why you wouldn't be able to do it on other Senators. I had an older plate laying around and decided to give it a try. I did this  free hand without marking anything, I only placed a dot with a marker for the pin that holds the spring tension. This idea came to me a long time ago and I finally decided to give it a shot yesterday. Give it a try, you'll need a dremel, a few different bits and lots of patience. Just don't get too upset if you screw up the plate...it could happen, I was lucky .

Thanks to everyone else, I'm glad you liked it.
Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: broadway on November 30, 2011, 08:59:03 PM
Now I got something to do this winter other than repairing and cleaning. 
PS- I didn't go to bed yet ;)
Dom
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on January 06, 2012, 11:46:56 PM
Okay guys, here is a reel that I just put together using the double dog feature. These are alternating dogs, unlike the dogs in my 113h that I posted about earlier. Enjoy!

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/114h%20double%20dogging/Picture1839.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/114h%20double%20dogging/Picture1838.jpg)

I found an easier way of shaving the area for the new dog; as you can see from the picture, you don't need to overdo it as I did above.

[(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/114h%20double%20dogging/Picture1843.jpg)

I want to mention that using a cordless dremel and the apron that I'm wearing will make the job much easier.  You can put the tools you need in the apron and do the shaving outdoors, since it really gets dusty. I like to rest the plate on my chest while I work on it.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/114h%20double%20dogging/Picture1841.jpg)

I used carbon fiber washers and a stainless steel gear sleeve.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/114h%20double%20dogging/Picture1845.jpg)

The main gear is also stainless steel.


I used a Tiburon P 60 WEX-K-RED. No need for inner rings with this frame.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/114h%20double%20dogging/Picture1856.jpg)

After I installed the left plate, I put the spool in place. I just want to mention that the spool and frame are heavy duty in this kit.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/114h%20double%20dogging/Picture1857.jpg)

Next, I installed the right side plate.


Then I placed the stainless steel handle with an Ultimate Jigging Knob. I think it makes this bad boy look awesome.

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/114h%20double%20dogging/Picture1865.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/114h%20double%20dogging/Picture1862.jpg)

Here is the finished product!

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/114h%20double%20dogging/Picture1867.jpg)

For size comparison, here is this reel next to the 113h that I customized earlier.


This is a heavy duty reel that can handle quite a bit.  No worries about running out of line any time soon; this reel holds over a mile of 80-pound braid.  The stainless steel gears are stock from Penn and they're 2.8 to 1, you can still find them, look for the anniversory reels,  It retrieves as much line as the 113h with the 4 to 1 gear.   I am not affiliated with any of the companies I am mentioning; I got the frame kit from Reelygone.com, the stainless steel handle from fishingreel 79, that's his ebay name and the handle knob from Jaws Fishing Tackle. The apron from Harbor Freight for $5.99. The stainless steel yoke from Dawn, and the stainless steel sleeve from Alan, he doesn't have any left at the moment.

Just wanted to mention this in case any of you want to put one toghether.

Thanks,
Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on January 07, 2012, 12:12:42 AM
I want to mention that the reel was working great  but the gears weren't disengaging smoothly. I just replaced the stainless steel yoke with the brass yoke and everything is nice and smooth now...this reel is awesome!


I've been corrected by one of the members here on line capacity on this reel, I was off by 150yds.
I went back to double check and this is what I came up with:
The 114H narrow, spool width 2 3/8" holds approx. 800 yds of 80 lb braid
The 114H, spool width  2 3/4" holds 1050 yds of 80 lb braid
The 114HLW, spool width 3" holds 1350 yds of 80 lb braid
The 114WEX, spool width  3.5" holds 1600 yds of 80lb braid
These figures are close but not accurate. Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Bryan Young on January 07, 2012, 05:34:06 AM
I am in awe Sal. 
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: broadway on January 07, 2012, 07:50:05 AM
Sal,

     As usual, awesome job!  Couple questions... Which reels dogs are those, the 113h?  How do you like the ultimate jigging handle knob... I've been thinkin' about them for my saltigas?  I'm not sure if it's true, but I was told the old steel gears aren't stainless... can you confirm either way for sure, please?
Thanks for forward thinking for us, bro!
Dom
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on January 07, 2012, 12:07:48 PM
Dom, yes the gears are 2.8:1 Moly coated stainless steel gears,introduced around the mid 80's. As for the steel gears, you're going all the way back to the beginning. The ultimate knob is great, I will be buying more. the owner is Arthur Wu, great guy, I order mine and they were in my mail box the next day...just like Dawn from smooth drags. I just want to mention to order yours with the "S" type shaft, I got mine with the "B" type shaft, my hands are big, it's working fine but since there is another option I  would go for it. These shafts have two ss ball bearings, top and bottom.
The ss handle goes very nice with it, I purchased mine on ebay, the seller is fishingreel79, a good person to deal with.
Dom, did you notice the frame? it's a full 1/4" thick, I purchased it from reelygone, the owner is Dan Williamson, if you pay him with a money order he will give you a break. I also purchased some 6-114HSP drag kits from him, Dawn was kind enough to let me know that she doesn't stack many of these kits, he is selling them for $10.50 each with free delivery. With all of these upgrades
I'm very excited about this reel, the 114H Senator is a great reel on its own, with over 50 years of good service, you can't say that about many other reels out there. Thanks guys. Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: broadway on January 07, 2012, 07:09:52 PM
Hey Sal,
    Thanks for passing on your knowledge, bro.  I have dealt with Dan at reelygone, and you're right he is a nice guy.  I have looked into those frames, but they're a bit on the pricey side.  I might have to get a couple for a rainy day now that you mentioned it  ;)
Fishingreel79 is the seller I've been watching the blue saltiga handles on... small world on this internet, huh?
What's the difference between the "S" and "B" type shafts?  I have pretty ridiculous hands myself... I am 6' 5" after all ;)
As for the dogs... The photo tricked me into thinking they were 2 different sizes.  Thanks for clearing that up.
Do you have an idea which years used the stainless gears and which used the steel gears?  You're right I have the plain steel ones in all my football-shaped handles  ;) of my senators.  
Great job,
Dom
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on January 07, 2012, 10:34:39 PM
Dom, you're right. These frame kits are costly but don't think that they're going down in value any time soon. This is the widest kit that Tiburon put out there. It has a frame and spool over 3" in width, 3.5" to be exact, requires a lot of engineering on their part to keep the spool and frame intact under stress. You will hear a lot of different opinions regarding this reel. My own opinion is that this reel can be pushed around 30lb. and also that you would have a tough time finding a better reel in it's class able to hold a mile of 80 lb braid. I purchased one because I thought it was worth it, but everyone is entitle to their own opinion. Fishingreel 79 is a great guy, his name is Tong Nguyen, his work on ss is excellent, I've been dealing with him for over 2 years now. Everytime I ask him to make me a handle for a 113h, or a 114H, he always comes through.
The difference between the "S" and the "B" shaft is that the "S" is a little longer.
As for the stainless steel gears, you won't find the exact date anywere, so I'm going to guesstimate, based on my findings, that they were from the early 50's and didn't last long. Steel gears were used before then. Later, Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on January 07, 2012, 11:14:19 PM
Sorry Dom, I have a correction to make. I read about the moly coated stainless steel gears in their 50th anniversary catalog not the 25th anniversary catalog, therefore the stainless steel gears on these reels were introduced in the 80's, not 50's. I know that they didn't last very long though. Sorry for the mix-up, I had the right catalog but wrote down the wrong date. Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: broadway on January 07, 2012, 11:50:52 PM
I'm gonna keep my out for those stainless gears, and put an order in with Mr. Nguyen for some handles.  Thanks for the follow up
Dom
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on January 08, 2012, 04:45:56 PM
Any time Dom. Hey, did you check out that used  Tiburon Broadbill Kit on eBay? I think it's going off today. It's up to $275, it will probably go over $300. Now, that's what I call costly.
Later bro. Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: broadway on January 08, 2012, 04:56:33 PM
    I did see that, but if I was gonna do that I'd go for the frame and spool you got from Dan...brand new too!
I think people on ebay get caught up in the bidding... big time! I have seen things go for more than the seller's buy it now price during a bidding war...all one of the bidders had to do was click the buy it now button  ::)
Have a great day,
Dom
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: George4741 on January 08, 2012, 06:24:45 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on January 08, 2012, 04:45:56 PM
Any time Dom. Hey, did you check out that used  Tiburon Broadbill Kit on eBay? I think it's going off today. It's up to $275, it will probably go over $300. Now, that's what I call costly.
Later bro. Sal


I've been watching that bidding, too.  MADNESS! 

Sal, you've put together a 6/0 with capabilities way beyond what I think Penn ever envisioned.  Awesome!  Who needs a 9/0 when your 6/0 will out-perform it in every way, except for some line capacity. 
Regards, George 
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on January 09, 2012, 03:03:02 AM
Thanks for the kind words George, I'm just playing around with this stuff.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on February 28, 2012, 02:34:41 AM
I know that some of you have already seen my 6/0 WEX, but thanks to Lee ( Keta )  for coming through with the stainless steel dogs, I just brought it up a notch.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2017.jpg)

This is now officially the reel/tank big brother. Enjoy
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2022.jpg)
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Squirmypug on February 28, 2012, 05:16:45 AM
Alto, you should send this reel to me for testing..to make sure none of the new parts fail.After a few years of "testing" I can send it back and let you know how it did.  ;D
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: redsetta on February 28, 2012, 05:29:56 AM
Great work Sal (and Lee) - looks like a cracker reel.
Nice pics too mate.
Gotta start on my Tiburon 114H some time soon, as soon as I can find a few spare minutes in the day!
All the best, Justin
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: VW on February 28, 2012, 05:58:28 AM
OK, where do we get the SS dogs?
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on February 28, 2012, 11:10:13 AM
VW, I wish I could help you out as you helped me in the past. These were a gift from Keta and are the only two I have.
I'm not sure if they're a test and if he will be making more. I'm hoping that Lee will be offering more, but I have no idea on how much work is involved on his part. I myself wouldn't mind paying 4/5 x more than the stock dogs. We'll see how that goes. Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on February 28, 2012, 11:47:14 AM
Quote from: Squirmypug on February 28, 2012, 05:16:45 AM
Alto, you should send this reel to me for testing..to make sure none of the new parts fail.After a few years of "testing" I can send it back and let you know how it did.  ;D

Squirmypug, sorry I can't let you have this one, this  is my baby. If you did take it for a couple of years though, I'm sure that it would still look the same when you give it back ( it is a Penn afterall ). This model is not cheap to build, the WEX frame and spool alone cost @ $240. This is a serious fishing machine and I'm sure that you won't be getting any recall notice on this one ;). The gears are Penn stock gears and they are ss, the gear ratio  is 3.25:1 2.8:1. By the way, I'm a GC, here is a little example: when I hung wall cabinets and want to make sure that they stay up, I use coarse thread screws...not fine thread ;).I don't get too excited about high speed gears. Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: BMITCH on February 28, 2012, 11:51:07 AM
I hope that he does make more. I could use a couple for the upgrade. Another question I have is, are there any SS gears available for the 114H? I'm going to order the SS pinion shaft from Electra- mate. This seems like a nice upgrade. I was hoping I might be able to get some assistance with finding SS gears for this

 Thank, Bob
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on February 28, 2012, 12:12:37 PM
Bob, I've been looking for a long time now for  3.25:1 Accurate gears and still haven't had any luck. I see them on eBay every now and then, but can't justify paying close to $200 for them. There has been a lot of discussions here about the accurate gears, but no one has stepped up to the plate yet. If you purchase a used Penn 114H, there is a good chance that you will find the Penn ss gears.
Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: BMITCH on February 28, 2012, 12:51:54 PM
So the new ones you can order through Penn are brass? Seems to me to be counter productive???


Bob
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Keta on February 28, 2012, 04:10:31 PM
Nice work Sal.

Quote from: VW on February 28, 2012, 05:58:28 AM
OK, where do we get the SS dogs?

Another small batch of 113H dogs are being water cut this week, the 114H dogs are hand made for now and take 30-45 min each to finish.  I'm not selling any SS dogs yet but I'm considering having a larger run made.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: BMITCH on February 28, 2012, 04:16:38 PM
Please let me know if these become available for both the 113H & 114H



Bob
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Keta on February 28, 2012, 04:40:08 PM
The 114H dogs started as a hand made payback for a very generous person.  I use Wilderness Pack Specialties shop and some of his tools when my shop is too cold to work in and the owner told me to send them over and get some water cut at another busness in town.  Now it looks like there is some interest in SS dogs and they are easy to make once the drawing is made.  A small number of 113H dogs will be available later in the week, I'll try to get a drawing made up for 114H dogs and get them water cut.  Jigmaster and Surfmaster dogs are next.

I have a heavy industrial maintenance/construction background not marketing, would these sell for $2.00 ea?
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: BMITCH on February 28, 2012, 04:52:32 PM
SOLD!!! I would like 4 of the dogs for the 113H and the same for the 114H, when available. Just let me know where to send payment to and shipping. You can PM me if you would like. Your definitely feeding the tinkering addiction that my wife has stated I'm prone too.


THANKS!!!!!

Bob
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Irish Jigger on February 28, 2012, 05:07:19 PM
Great product and good value at $2. Stand by for some orders. ;D
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on February 28, 2012, 05:14:32 PM
Lee, if you get it rolling put me down for 50 sets for the 113H and 50 for the 114H for now.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: broadway on February 28, 2012, 05:51:39 PM
Lee,

      I would like 6 for the 113h (only cause I don't wanna be a pig- I would take 40 if you had plenty for all.) I would like 8 for the 114h, but same situation as the 113h's...I would take 40 of them, too! :o
$2 is a nice deal as far as I'm concerned... thanks for helping us out!
Dom

Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on February 28, 2012, 06:39:09 PM
Quote from: broadway on February 28, 2012, 05:51:39 PM
Lee,

      I would like 6 for the 113h (only cause I don't wanna be a pig- I would take 40 if you had plenty for all.) I would like 8 for the 114h, but same situation as the 113h's...I would take 40 of them, too! :o
$2 is a nice deal as far as I'm concerned... thanks for helping us out!
Dom


I'm sure that we would also help with making sure that everyone has at least a set  ;) . Lots of good guys here, Alan has a good thing going.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Makule on February 28, 2012, 07:55:56 PM
I'd like 6 more for the 113H, for the time being, and would gladly spend $2/each for them.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: broadway on February 28, 2012, 10:50:32 PM
Sal,

     I have no doubt that you would spread your order to the rest of us. ;)  The "not wanting to be a pig" comment was about my first instinct, NOT your order.  I wanted to say 40 right off the bat, but I don't wanna short anyone to have all for me.  What I love about this site is that it has changed me for the better.  Before I wouldn't have been AS concerned what others got as long as I got what I wanted.  Thanks to you guys for helping me open my eyes to this different way of thinking!
In other words, Lee, get crackin' over there  ;D ;)
Thanks
Dom
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on February 29, 2012, 12:05:50 AM
I know that it wasn't directed to me Dom, I put that number out to let Lee know how valuable those dogs are to us. If he gets it set up and has the material, I believe that he would be able to take care all of us with no problems. By the way, did you take a closer look at the 114H dogs that he sent me? That man has some talent, those were made by hand. Later bro. Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: redsetta on February 29, 2012, 12:19:28 AM
Quote...by the way, did you take a closer look at the 114H dogs that he sent me? That man has some talent, those were made by hand...
Absolutely - couldn't agree more.
Nice work Lee.
All the best, Justin
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: broadway on February 29, 2012, 01:21:18 AM
Gotta appreciate a quality machinist and the right tools!  8)
Dom
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Dominick on February 29, 2012, 01:36:34 AM
I"m good for now Lee.  Thanks.  Dominick
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: VW on February 29, 2012, 07:43:40 AM
Quote from: Keta on February 28, 2012, 04:40:08 PM
... Now it looks like there is some interest in SS dogs and they are easy to make once the drawing is made...  

Any chance of some other parts, e.g. yokes that are not being made elsewhere?
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: joel8080 on February 29, 2012, 11:51:27 AM
I would take 3 sets for the 113H and 3 sets of the 114H. Please email me with where I can send or wire (pay pal)the payment.

Joel 8080
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Keta on February 29, 2012, 05:02:57 PM
Let me see if I can up production, the demand is far more than I expected and I really was only planning on making a few as gifts.  Early next week I should have 100 for the 113H ready to clean up and I plan on doing 100 piece batches when I can pay for them.  A 114H dog is being drawn up this week and should be cut at the same time.

I can have dogs cut to different lengths if someone is interested in setting up a "Tank" with dogs that catch alternatly if there is a need.

Yokes can be made but I think Smooth Drag has them.

I want to see if I can make some SS bridges with attached dogs like on a Jigmaster but that will be after I get done rebuilding the old Atlas Mk1 6" lathe I salvaged out of the neighbors trash pile last week.  I also need to see if I can use another neighbors TIG welder to weld the shaft to the plate.   I'm thinking SS drag washers for my 349s next.

Unfortunatly I see a 114H narrow, double dog reel in my reel pile in the near future.

Thanks Sal, I now have something to do until lambing time then more after.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on February 29, 2012, 05:51:21 PM
Lee, I'm hoping that there won't be any guys that are going to hate what I'm about to say, but, here goes. I do not believe that $2  is enough, I, and I'm sure everyone else, am thankful that you came up with these. I don't believe that it is fair to you for cleaning them up for free. This is going to be a lot of work on your part and I believe that $3 would be fair .....but I leave that up to you. If you need some money up front, just let us know, I trust you with my money ;)
Let me know if you need anything for that 114H.  Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Keta on February 29, 2012, 06:06:49 PM
Thanks again Sal, $3.00 would be 50% better than $2.00 and I can always use fuel funds for the September drive to Baja.   I can make a bit of money selling them at $2.00 and would not feel right changing the price after "seting" it at $2.00.

Last week I got paid for a batch of charter boat reel work so I have the funds for the next run, thanks for the offer.  I need to get a 114H to start on but that will be a project for next fall.

If I have a part to use for a pattern and the right material I can get any size dogs cut if there is a need.  I'm looking at a 349 dog now.

I still need to figure out how to get the shaft out of a 60 spool without dammaging the spool for my 112HN project.  
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Bryan Young on February 29, 2012, 07:27:30 PM
Sal, funny 'cause I said the same thing to Lee.  I still think $3 or even $4 retail would be reasonable considering how often would you really need to change the stainless steel dog.  The drag washers cost more that that.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: broadway on February 29, 2012, 07:29:26 PM
I can appreciate both of your points... You're both good guys! I'm good with 2.50!

Dom
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: joel8080 on February 29, 2012, 09:58:36 PM
No problem on the $3 or $4.00 price I still would like 3 sets of 113H and 3 sets of the 114H.

Joel 8080

jsm8080@gmail.com
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on February 29, 2012, 10:14:54 PM
Sorry I had to put in my two cents, Joel. Keta is a great guy and I just don't want him to be out on this great project that he has brought to the table. Sal
By the way, if you don't mind me asking, Is that your boat on your avatar?
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Dominick on February 29, 2012, 10:50:03 PM
Lee:  you have a concensus on the amount the members are willing to spend.  The members on this site know the value of the dogs.  So just establish a price.  Say $3.00 plus $1.00 shipping and handling.  The $1.00 shipping and handling is for 1 to 20.  After that the shipping charges should be actual.  You deserve it and as you have implied you need the money.  This is the way to support yourself and keep you in bait money.  Dominick
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Bryan Young on February 29, 2012, 11:00:37 PM
I'm with you Sal.  Yes, the ultimate decision is yours Lee, and we  thank you for the reasonable price point for the SS dog.  You and the individual that is cutting the dogs should make a little something...at least to cover the cost of a cup of coffee.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Norcal Pescador on March 01, 2012, 12:54:09 AM
Lee, I'm with Dominick, Sal, Bryan ........ 8)  Make it worth your while. It looks like there is a market for these dogs. You did the work on the layout and material search, so reap the benefit.

Dominick, did you say take the cannolis?  ;D
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Dominick on March 01, 2012, 01:45:52 AM
Quote from: norcal pescador on March 01, 2012, 12:54:09 AM
Dominick, did you say take the cannolis?  ;D

Yeah! If you don't remember the line, it's from the Godfather.  Clemenza leaves his house to go to "work", his wife says to him as he is leaving the house, "stop and pick up some cannolis."  Now the whole scene is them mostly driving in the car.  Finally they bump off the driver and Clemenza says to the shooter "Leave the gun.  Take the cannolis."  Search youtube for that expression, I think they will have that scene.  Rob, the next time you come down from Podunk, I'll make cannolis for you.  Dominick
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: joel8080 on March 01, 2012, 02:08:15 AM

I owned the boat for 6 years in Florida and shipped it to Panama when we moved here 4 years ago, it's a 27 ft Blackfin side counsel it's a great Boat loved it in Fl and it's even better down here.

Joel
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: alantani on March 01, 2012, 02:34:51 AM
figured i'd better stickey this thing, not that it needs it......  ;D
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on March 01, 2012, 03:10:01 AM
Dominick, if I see cannolis I'm not getting on that boat with you :o


Very nice boat, Joel ;).


Thanks for the stickey Alan.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: john2244 on March 01, 2012, 07:28:33 AM
Keta,

Just to confirm I am still good with my order regardless of your final price.  Thanks for making them available.

John
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: BMITCH on March 01, 2012, 10:30:46 AM
Keta,
  I'm with John. The price is more than fair. I would still care for four of each when they are cut. Regardless of the cost. Did you ever give it any thought, but maybe you could run off a whole batch and see if a Penn parts dealer would be interested?? Just a thought.

Bob
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on March 04, 2012, 03:38:42 PM
Ok guys if you make a boo-boo, don't sweat it.This is what I did.
I drilled a hole approx. 3/16" into the plate and glued a piece of brass wire approx. 3/8". It is working just fine, maybe even better.
Here are some pix:

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2030.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2033.jpg)

And here is the reel ready for action again:

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2037.jpg)

Lee, I'm not sure if you could hear it, but this baby is begging for the SS dogs ;D.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Keta on March 04, 2012, 04:29:40 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 04, 2012, 03:38:42 PM
Lee, I'm not sure if you could hear it, but this baby is begging for the SS dogs ;D.

Material is at the cutter, as soon as I get them I'll clean them up, polish the contact surfaces and let you know.

Good idea on the pin, I have a bunch of 3/32 SS tig wire if you need some for pins.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on March 04, 2012, 07:10:19 PM
Great news Lee. I'm ok with the wire, thanks.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: redsetta on March 04, 2012, 09:51:57 PM
Nice work Sal - that reel sure is purdy.  ;) ;D
Gonna have to get one of my own...
Cheers, Justin
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: wallacewt on March 04, 2012, 11:02:11 PM
hi sal,
would that dog spring stay in place under fishing conditions
jarring and bumping around.
is it just for show?
i maybe wrong but it looks a bit suss.
cheers buddy
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on March 04, 2012, 11:24:16 PM
I can assure you that the dog spring isn't going anywhere Wallace. Once you set the bidge you won't be able to pull it off even if you wanted to. It is for show though, it will show us that it can handle 30lb ;). Later buddy.



Thanks Justin!
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: wallacewt on March 04, 2012, 11:45:45 PM
okey dokey
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Robert Janssen on July 18, 2012, 07:52:10 AM
Anecdote about all this double dogging and sideplate carving going on....

Many years ago, one of the old tool-and-die guys from Penn posted that he tried to have that second pocket made in all the Senator sideplates, but frustratingly, they wouldn't let him for some reason.

It had nothing to do with a second dog, but he had realized that this would have allowed lefty-righty reversibility in the same part.

.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on July 18, 2012, 09:44:21 AM
Quote from: Robert Janssen on July 18, 2012, 07:52:10 AM
Many years ago, one of the old tool-and-die guys from Penn posted that he tried to have that second pocket made in all the Senator sideplates, but frustratingly, they wouldn't let him for some reason.

It had nothing to do with a second dog, but he had realized that this would have allowed lefty-righty reversibility in the same part.

.
You had to hear that from someone, your hands look too young :-\
About that second pocket, it is great for left to right handed reels, but not so good for the double dogs options... for me anyway.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Robert Janssen on July 18, 2012, 10:50:02 AM
Quote from: Alto Mare on July 18, 2012, 09:44:21 AM
You had to hear that from someone, your hands look too young :-\

Naw, my hands are getting used to it...
Well, lemmesee... say he wrote that post seven years ago. He was retired then, and this was something he'd done long before... Average term of employment at Penn is like twenty years.. I don't know how often Penn retooled their molds... Maybe in the seventies? Dunno.

Anecdote, as said...

.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on July 18, 2012, 11:13:55 AM
I had a couple of buddys that worked at Penn; hunting partners up in the Poconos. There is only one left now and he's pushing 80, he doesn't come out with us anymore.
Would you believe that they used to assemble reels and both didn't enjoy fishing? Serious hunters though.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: alantani on July 18, 2012, 03:24:57 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on July 18, 2012, 11:13:55 AM
Would you believe that they used to assemble reels and both didn't enjoy fishing?

i thought that was a requirement for the job.   ;D
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on July 18, 2012, 08:51:53 PM
Yea, me too. They both did have Penn reels though :-\. About 10 years ago one of the guys asked me if I wanted to go over his house and take wathever I wanted, but I never did go.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Irish Jigger on July 18, 2012, 08:59:52 PM
Have you his address Sal? ;D
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Bryan Young on July 18, 2012, 11:04:01 PM
I'd fly out to pick up all of their old new stock. As long as I can sell it to recoup my flight cost for the parts that I don't need.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: john2244 on July 18, 2012, 11:07:52 PM
Bryan,

I want to go too. !!!!

John
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on July 18, 2012, 11:12:53 PM
Unfortunately the buddy that made me that offer is no longer with us :(
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Bryan Young on July 19, 2012, 05:21:58 AM
Sorry to hear of your friend.  No matter how long ago, I'm sure he is missed. 
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: misanthrope on August 15, 2012, 01:19:48 AM
Alto, thank you for the write up. Did mine and it works great!

After making my initial cut with the Dremel cut off wheel, I used the Dremel 194 High Speed Cutting bit to shape my cut out (scored the plastic using my pawl as a template) and then I used the Dremel 193 High Speed Cutting bit to cut out the groove for the spring.

Well worth the 20 minutes I spent in the garage away from crying cranky children!


-Will
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on August 15, 2012, 01:22:21 AM
Nice to hear Will. You had a good reel, now you have a better reel.
Good luck with it.
Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Keta on August 15, 2012, 01:43:09 AM
Sal, I think you can put in a 115 dog if you want alternate engaging, as soon as I get the right sideplate I'll check.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on August 15, 2012, 02:27:28 AM
Yes Lee it will work. I mentioned it at "the penn senator 9/0 joins the double dog family".
Here is a shot showing the 15-114 and 15-115 dogs:

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2468.jpg)
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Keta on August 15, 2012, 04:33:26 AM
Is the dog on the right one of mine?  The engagement angle needs to be changed a bit.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: misanthrope on August 15, 2012, 07:08:32 AM
Sal,

PMd you:)
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on August 15, 2012, 10:12:06 AM
Quote from: Keta on August 15, 2012, 04:33:26 AM
Is the dog on the right one of mine?  The engagement angle needs to be changed a bit.
Where else would I get them from? ;D
Yes the angle needs to be fine-tuned a bit, but it's not a big deal. If you do it, just make sure that you don't mix them up with the other dogs. I would leave them, they're working just fine as they are, but I'm showing them on a 9/0.  A 6/0 might need it more but anyone could hit them with a file a couple of times.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Keta on August 15, 2012, 12:43:17 PM
I'll check in my "new" 114H as soon as I get back from the coast.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: misanthrope on August 15, 2012, 06:19:53 PM
Not an improvement, but an alternative. Still testing it so no how to until I know it'll work.  

I don't think it's worth going this route vs Sal's mod. I had some extra springs and figured it was non invasive so if I didn't like it, it wouldn't affect anything. Just kinda neat to see something different, stick with Sal's;)

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b31/spazzedninny/SpringInstalled.jpg)



-Will
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Makule on August 15, 2012, 07:09:39 PM
Quote from: misanthrope on August 15, 2012, 06:19:53 PM
Not an improvement, but an alternative. Still testing it so no how to until I know it'll work.  

I don't think it's worth going this route vs Sal's mod. I had some extra springs and figured it was non invasive so if I didn't like it, it wouldn't affect anything. Just kinda neat to see something different, stick with Sal's;)

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b31/spazzedninny/SpringInstalled.jpg)

-Will

Very clever.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on August 15, 2012, 09:02:12 PM
Very good Will! This would be a good option for the reels that can't take the flat spring, like the 112h's.
Thanks for showing it to us.
Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: George4741 on August 15, 2012, 09:38:32 PM
Will, that is a very clever idea.
Title: Penn 114H second AR dog coil spring
Post by: misanthrope on August 16, 2012, 04:06:39 AM
Prerequisite: Use Sal's Penn 114H second AR dog tutorial.

This mod is an alternative for those that wish to use a coiled spring or cannot use a flat spring. It will require you to make the pawl seat deeper by about 1.5mm otherwise the springs will bind against the bridge when you screw it down. The Dremel 194 High Speed Cutting bit makes short work of deepening the reel seat.

Bend 2 springs like this (Shimano Part # TGT 1304), leave an 1/8" from the bend and clip the rest off (or just drill a deeper hole, don't go all the way through the side plate!). The bend and the curl on the bent leg on the springs is important for this install as that is what will grab against the inside wall of the holes you will be drilling to keep the springs in place. If the bend you put in the spring is not parallel to the other factory prebent leg(left side of the springs in picture), the prebent leg will slip off the pawl as this puts the spring at an angle when installed and this gets old very quickly.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b31/spazzedninny/SpringBend.jpg)

Cut a SHALLOW channel (just deep enough to make the spring flush)  extending out from the pawl seats (the lines that extend outwards from the pawl seats). Drill a hole at the end of each channel about 1/8" deep using a .2280" drill bit. Determine your spring position BEFORE cutting the channel and drilling the hole at the end of the channel to make sure you have enough deflection in the spring once installed to ensure positive engagement.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b31/spazzedninny/Springhole.jpg)

If the reel seat and the channels are not cut deep enough, the right spring will not stay put and once you tighten down the bridge plate, the bridge plate will pinch the spring against the pawl and won't allow proper deflection of the spring rending the mod useless.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b31/spazzedninny/SpringSlippage.jpg)

This is what it should look like once it's done properly. Bear in mind that even if the springs are positioned properly as shown in the
picture below,  the bridge plate can still bind against the pawl and the bridge plate, IF the reel seats are not deep enough, you will know after the bridge plate is installed becuase the pawls won't move.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b31/spazzedninny/SpringInstalled.jpg)

Reassemble and hope everything doesn't go shooting out when you put it back together.  I used Alan's suggestion of using a bit of masking tape to hole the screws in place. I then took a flat head and punched through the tape to expose the slots on the screws. That way the springs stay installed on the screws and when I'm ready to tighten the bridge plate down, I just start turning and the masking tape will break loose.

Right spring/pawl installed under bridge plate.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b31/spazzedninny/Right.jpg)

Left spring/pawl installed under bridge plate.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b31/spazzedninny/Left.jpg)

After testing for positive engagement of the pawls and trying to twist/break the gear sleeve off, I can comfortably say the springs will not slip, AS LONG AS THE PAWL SEATS ARE NOT CUT TOO DEEP. You want the reel seats just deep enough to create clearance for the spring on top of the pawl, nothing more.

Let's hope I don't become that kid that convinced you to jump off the 2nd story roof wearing cardboard wings...


-Will
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Keta on August 16, 2012, 04:49:50 AM
Nice work!
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Bryan Young on August 16, 2012, 06:31:36 AM
Very nice work.  I wonder if you can mount the spring under the dog...Hmm
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: misanthrope on August 16, 2012, 06:38:35 AM
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 16, 2012, 06:31:36 AM
Very nice work.  I wonder if you can mount the spring under the dog...Hmm

That is another project with my other 114H. I need to get more springs and I will need to finish recessing the area around the pawl post to set a spring so I can see if I can get enough deflection in the spring, not quite sure where to put the bent leg yet since the springs will be flipped but it should be less work than doing it the way I did it.

My concern with the spring on top of the pawl is that its steel moving between a brass sandwich.


-Will
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Bryan Young on August 16, 2012, 06:44:56 AM
I wonder is drilling into the dog to put in a small spring would work, like the squidders?  Will, your inventiveness is going to drive me crazy and I need to sleep.   ;)
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Keta on August 16, 2012, 02:21:22 PM
Thiner dogs can be made.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: George4741 on August 17, 2012, 01:44:47 AM
Will, your dog spring mod is very similar to the Baja Special.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: misanthrope on August 17, 2012, 01:54:27 AM
Quote from: George4741 on August 17, 2012, 01:44:47 AM
Will, your dog spring mod is very similar to the Baja Special.

George, EVERY coil spring mod will be similar to a degree due to the nature of it being a coil spring and coil springs are designed to work in only 1 way, so in that aspect, EVERY reel that uses a coil spring is very similar:)



-Will
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Fishit 2 on August 20, 2012, 12:03:39 AM
Those custom dog springs look great, I'm trying to put my Squidder sideplate back on but I just cannot get that small spring to stay put. Do any of you guys sell them? I wonder if the Penn factory in Philly would have a few I can buy? Do they do custom parts as well? Will I run into any problems not using the spring at all?
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: redsetta on August 20, 2012, 12:12:47 AM
G'day Fishit,
They're available from MysticParts (0.70c), here: hhttps://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/14C-140.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/14C-140.aspx)
Gotta have the spring in there...
It's a bit fiddly, but you'll get there eventually.
Have a look at Alan's 113H tutorial here: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=208.0 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=208.0)
Shots 17-20 in particular...

(http://alantani.com/gallery/0/1_05_05_09_8_02_12_2.jpeg)

Good luck, Justin


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Harry on August 22, 2012, 05:53:14 AM
Put a dab of grease on that squidder spring and you might find it easier to install and harder to lose Fishit.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Fishit 2 on August 22, 2012, 07:36:01 AM
Thanks for the tips guys, I think I was trying to put the spring in the wrong way after looking at that pic - but I have the dog with the small hole on it where the spring seats in, not sure I can get it in on that angle.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Cone on September 25, 2012, 03:44:46 AM
Quote from: Bryan Young on August 16, 2012, 06:31:36 AM
Very nice work.  I wonder if you can mount the spring under the dog...Hmm
I just double dogged one of my 114h's. I put the spring under the dog. Works great. I'll try and take some pic's tomorrow and figure out how to post em. I made the spring from #11 ss fishing leader wire. Just waiting for some of Keta's dogs to swap the brass ones with.   Bob
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on September 26, 2012, 02:16:44 AM
Very nice Bob, post some shots when you get it done.
Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Cone on September 26, 2012, 02:27:52 AM
Sal i wanted to but I didn't take any today. I'll have to take it back apart again and take some but nothing went right today and I was just happy to get it together. I could have used you today. It would have been a snap for you.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on September 26, 2012, 02:42:03 AM
Don't give up Bob, it get easier as you move along.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Cone on September 26, 2012, 03:46:59 AM
I'm not giving up. Sal. Let me see if I can post some pics.

(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii557/FireandH2O/Penn%20114h/100_0054_zpsa420789a.jpg)
This is the dog and spring

(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii557/FireandH2O/Penn%20114h/100_0052_zps1ae6c7e2.jpg)
This is a shot of the dog in place. I broke this piece of plastic when I cut the pocket.

(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii557/FireandH2O/Penn%20114h/100_0053_zps0066a7c2.jpg)
This is the pocket for the dog and spring

(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii557/FireandH2O/Penn%20114h/100_0055_zps34ae7017.jpg)
This is the dogs in place with the bridge removed. The dog is cocked in the pic and the angle of the end of the dog matches when its straight.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: George4741 on September 26, 2012, 03:59:08 AM
Nice job, Bob.  The 113H and 114H tank projects are slowly evolving.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Keta on September 26, 2012, 04:02:54 AM
The second dog needs to be a 115 dog and I know where there is some in SS.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Cone on September 26, 2012, 04:07:11 AM
Let me know how much Lee. I'll take a couple.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Keta on September 26, 2012, 04:08:14 AM
Same price, they will be in the mail tomorrow.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Cone on September 26, 2012, 04:11:03 AM
I'll include it in the check I'm sending tomorrow. Thanks Lee
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Cone on September 30, 2012, 08:47:43 PM
Maybe I'm confused or is that Conefused?   ???   It seems to me instead of a dog for a 115 a shorter dog is needed on this reel. Maybe one for a 113h. Heres what I mean.

(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii557/FireandH2O/Penn%20114h/000_0002_zpsf5833e14.jpg)
This is a 114h dog and a 115 see how the teeth on the sleeve is in the way.

(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii557/FireandH2O/Penn%20114h/000_0003_zpsec3f0487.jpg)
This is a 114 dog and a 115 dog in the other configuration the teeth still are in the way.

(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii557/FireandH2O/Penn%20114h/000_0001_zps50ed0474.jpg)
This is two 114 dogs one I filed down shorter.

Any thoughts or input is appreciated.  Bob
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on September 30, 2012, 09:14:49 PM
Bob, I believe you did very well, you can also fine tune the longer dog if you wanted to, just to give it a bettewr angle,  but it should do just fine as is. You just built  yourself a killer reel, nice going ;).

I want to mention that on the 4/0 you don't need to do anything, the dogs engage nicely at the same time. On the 9/0, you'll need to use one for the 6/0 and one for the 9/0, this will make them engage nicely at the same time.
Very good job Bob, you're making me look bad ;D
Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Cone on September 30, 2012, 09:34:22 PM
Thanks Sal, that means a lot coming from you. I'll never be able to mke you look bad. It's because of you we're doing these mods. I've got a frame coming from Reelygone and I just got a ss yoke frome Dawn. A power handle will be next. Thanks again. Bob
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on September 30, 2012, 10:05:12 PM
Bob, I just noticed that you didn't cut the slot for the new dog, take a look at this picture it should show you what I mean. If you leave it as you have it the dog spring will not wor as it should. This is the easy part, you already did the hard part. Here is the picture:

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2468.jpg)
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Cone on September 30, 2012, 10:53:13 PM


Thanks for pointing that out, Sal. I made a spring out of #11 ss leader. It doesnt need a slot. One side of the spring lays against the side of the cutout and the other side catches the dog. Just call me lazy, less work with the dremel. Bob













Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on September 30, 2012, 10:58:57 PM
Very clever Bob, are you able to show a picture of that spring?
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Cone on October 01, 2012, 12:07:16 AM
You can see the end in this pic.
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii557/FireandH2O/Penn%20114h/000_0002_1_zps3b7db5d1.jpg)
I had already posted this pic. You can see the spring. Ghetto, I know.
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii557/FireandH2O/Penn%20114h/100_0054_zpsa420789a.jpg)
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: George4741 on October 01, 2012, 12:11:44 AM
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 30, 2012, 10:05:12 PM

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture2468.jpg)


Sal, your photo gives the illusion that it is a black side plate.  What color is it? 
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on October 01, 2012, 12:21:46 AM
George, I believe you had too much to dring with dinner ;D.
No, you're right! I used a 9/0 plate to show it bigger.  Nothing gets by you  ;)


I see it Bob, Thanks!


Bob, check your pm.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Keta on October 02, 2012, 02:19:21 PM
Quote from: Cone on September 30, 2012, 08:47:43 PM
Maybe I'm confused or is that Conefused?   

We all get there at times.  A longer dog gives you a better angle, I prefer mine at closer to slightly less than 90°.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Cone on October 02, 2012, 06:42:26 PM
I already posted this I thought but I guess its lost in cyber space. I recieved my frame and put it together this morning. I'll fish it a while and see hoe it does and then maybe change the dogs. The spool had a few pits that I filled with JB weld. I'll have to sand them better then I'mm gonna coat it with Guncoat and bake it. Heres some pics.
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii557/FireandH2O/Penn%20114h/100_0086_zps89938355.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii557/FireandH2O/Penn%20114h/100_0087_zps892de926.jpg)
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Cone on October 13, 2012, 01:06:25 AM
I finally gunkoted the spool, installed a power handle and T bar. Thanks again Sal. Here are a few pics.
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii557/FireandH2O/Penn%20114h/019_zps63443b61.jpg)

(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii557/FireandH2O/Penn%20114h/018_zps36c6b981.jpg)

(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii557/FireandH2O/Penn%20114h/017_zps82a6bb2e.jpg)

(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii557/FireandH2O/Penn%20114h/016_zpse852bfdd.jpg)
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on October 13, 2012, 01:40:09 AM
Sweet looking reel Bob, now forget about those alligators for a while and go get some monster Hammerheads ;D.
Great job on that spool also, thanks for sharing.
Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: blktwr2660 on December 14, 2012, 10:31:56 PM
Hey,Guy's Been awhile! 8) U Know Biz and all that.Alan your still the MAN!  ;);)But U need to do something about ALTO :-\,put him under hard manners,every timeI on come on this site HE does something so GREAT with these PENN reels I wind up looking to dump these Advet and Accurate Reels.I love and will always love my early PENN'S,most have been put away to be shared and admired by the Grand's but now I'm thinking what about modifying a 14/0 or better a 16/0,forget two speeds go back to the old ways only with ALTO'S AND OTHERS :-*   who came up with these mods :D Thanks again for this site Alan ;))ps:Alto I Can realy HATE you >:(.Every time I do something to improve my reels you come along with a way to make it better,THANKS,Don't ever stop :-*
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: wallacewt on December 15, 2012, 12:04:41 AM
all you penn guys get working on the lever drags,you gotta change up sal.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on June 08, 2013, 01:42:32 PM
I stayed away from these newer plates, but after a closer inspection I realized that they're even better than the older models. New one on the right
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/parts/001_zps65c71604.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/parts/001_zps65c71604.jpg.html)
If some of you are still having a hard time grinding for the second dog, this is the plate to get and I believe the only one available from Scotts. My grinding was done in less than a minute.The space is already there, all you need to do is to remove a little at the top,as I'm showing
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/parts/003_zpsf3178752.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/parts/003_zpsf3178752.jpg.html)
I also like the two extra holes in the bridge plate, those should help keep everything in place
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/parts/004_zpsafca6845.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/parts/004_zpsafca6845.jpg.html)
as you can see on the right, the jack is beefier and has a better design for the tabs
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/parts/006_zps7a437d16.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/parts/006_zps7a437d16.jpg.html)
all parts are removable on the newer plate
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/parts/007_zpsb2d90dcb.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/parts/007_zpsb2d90dcb.jpg.html)
and lastly, the bearing cup has a seal.
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/parts/008_zps9fdbb89b.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/parts/008_zps9fdbb89b.jpg.html)
very nice, I like the new design.
If you're thinking of doing the extra dog on a 114H..... especially now with the new ss gears coming, go for it!
Any one could do it on this plate.
Any questions, you know how to find me, Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Shark Hunter on June 10, 2013, 05:28:41 PM
How can I get my hands on a set of those ss gears Sal?
Do  they make a ss bridge and sleeve too?
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Cone on June 10, 2013, 06:06:24 PM
Alan Tani has the ss gear sleeves. I think they are 35$ with 1 ss dog and a under gear washer.
Alan C. at Black Pearls board here is taking orders for the gears. I can't help with a ss bridge.
Bob
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: BMITCH on June 10, 2013, 06:07:56 PM
SH, the SS gears are soon to be available from black pearl. They are currently in the works. I think Alan tani has the SS sleeve. Hope that helps. I don't think there is a SS bridge available but I could be wrong??maybe someone else knows about that.
Bob
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: BMITCH on June 10, 2013, 06:08:53 PM
Bob you beat me to it I was posting the same as you were ::)
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Shark Hunter on June 10, 2013, 07:25:15 PM
Thanks guys, I'll check it out.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Cone on June 10, 2013, 09:03:15 PM
Bob, great minds think alike.  ;) Bob
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Shark Hunter on June 14, 2013, 05:29:27 PM
I have the sleeve coming from Alan T. The ss dogs from Lee (Keta). I haven't got an answer yet from Dawn on the ss yoke yet. My Wide kit from reely gone should be here today. All I'm really missing is the Black Pearl gears. Going to have to wait on those. I checked out that ultimate jigging knob. Holy Cow!
$43 bucks for a knob! I think the Silver aluminum will do just fine, since my kit is silver. I wish I had Sal's money!
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on June 14, 2013, 06:46:22 PM
Daron, you want to play hard? then get yourself one of these from the boss
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/parts/3aa7ae3c-0453-44e0-9f76-b2be4a0f102d_zps935a7ad0.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/parts/3aa7ae3c-0453-44e0-9f76-b2be4a0f102d_zps935a7ad0.jpg.html)
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/parts/003_zps1cc0283a.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/parts/003_zps1cc0283a.jpg.html)
Looking at the way it's made, I'm sure it won't let you down ;)
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Shark Hunter on June 14, 2013, 08:54:41 PM
I might just do that Sal.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Shark Hunter on August 04, 2013, 07:44:09 PM
I have posted this pic elsewhere. Since this is where I got the inspiration for it, I think it belongs here too. Here are my two tanks. Both with Black pearls new helical cut stainless gears, Stainless sleeves and yokes as well as double ss dogs.  ;D ;D
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/twotanks_zpsb1be0524.jpg)
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: broadway on August 04, 2013, 09:31:29 PM
Daron,
   I like your style! ;)
Dom
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Shark Hunter on August 05, 2013, 04:06:42 AM
Thanks Dom!
I appreciate it! ;D
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: ChileRelleno on August 10, 2013, 02:11:59 AM
Just did this modification on mine, one question.
I know it should sound like a ratchet, but should it feel like a really rusty old ratchet now, click/bump, click/bump, click/bump, click/bump, click/bump, click/bump, when turning the handle?
I'm thinking it probably should, just wanna make sure I didn't SNAFU something during reassembly.



Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on August 10, 2013, 03:17:09 AM
Yes, I love that sound. You did a great job on that plate, not bad for the first try.
Looks like you're building yourself a Super Tank, very nice.
If you would like the dogs to engage at the same time, get yourself a 9/0 ss dog from Lee ( Keta ) and replace one of the dog that you have, it would also be ok as is.
You've just joined this site, I'm glad you jumped right in. Don't forget to take pictures as you move along.
A shot of the finished product would also be nice.
Good luck with that reel.
Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Shark Hunter on August 10, 2013, 03:39:29 AM
Chile,
You notice how the dogs sort of come to a point. In your picture, the left dog is upside down.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: john2244 on August 10, 2013, 04:02:20 AM
Daron,

I think the dog is in the right position, but I am on my third glass of wine.

John
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Shark Hunter on August 10, 2013, 04:12:44 AM
You are right John,
I forgot about the rotation of the sleeve. I am on my 4th Coors. :P
Disregard Chile, just trying to help.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: ChileRelleno on August 10, 2013, 05:06:16 AM
OK...  I just couldn't believe that it should 'feel' like it did, so I tore it down and re-did it, now it is smooth with just a nice rapid clicking.
I can see my sharking buddies telling me to turn off my clicker. ;)
I also further modded the plate to reroute the dog spring, I cut a thin channel to the 1 o'clock position above the dog, the spring sits in it mirror image of the original.
Put it back together without taking pics and am too tired to bother with it tonight again

And, yes, the dog is in the correct position.

So this reel now has the following stainless parts/mods:
Gear Sleeve
Double Dogs
Pinion Yoke

And I'm eagerly awaiting the stainless gears from Black Pearl/ProChallenger.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: BMITCH on August 10, 2013, 11:15:14 AM
Quote from: ChileRelleno on August 10, 2013, 05:06:16 AM

And I'm eagerly awaiting the stainless gears from Black Pearl/ProChallenger.

I have three reels tore down awaiting those gears also. I hope sooooooon!
Bob
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: ChileRelleno on August 10, 2013, 02:03:02 PM
Quote from: BMITCH on August 10, 2013, 11:15:14 AM
Quote from: ChileRelleno on August 10, 2013, 05:06:16 AM

And I'm eagerly awaiting the stainless gears from Black Pearl/ProChallenger.

I have three reels tore down awaiting those gears also. I hope sooooooon!
Bob
Don't get in a hurry.
I asked Alan when he thought he'd have the run produced, he estimated mid Oct.
In another email he said all models would be produced at the same time.
QuoteHi John,

The 114H hex gear set is a go. It will be produced 50 sets.

The ETA will be middle of Oct.

Thanks,
Alan
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: turboal on August 10, 2013, 11:36:13 PM
chile, why did you reroute the spring ? what did you use to grind uoe the side plate ?

thanks AL
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: ChileRelleno on August 10, 2013, 11:51:33 PM
Quote from: turboal on August 10, 2013, 11:36:13 PM
chile, why did you reroute the spring ? what did you use to grind uoe the side plate ?

thanks AL
Much stronger spring tension than any configuration I experimented with utilizing the existing space.
The springs I had available weren't quite long enough to use as Sal did, that is a good config.
It now operates in the same configuration as the original dog spring.

I used a Dremel with diamond cylinder point 1/16" bit, to create the slot.

Opened it up and took a few pics.

http://imgur.com/a/rxGOukq


http://imgur.com/a/W3HzHCL


I also wanted to be sure the spring couldn't get loose from there, so I put a brass plate over it.

http://imgur.com/a/xWpAUrL


http://imgur.com/a/mHdtZXw
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: floating doc on August 11, 2013, 03:40:14 AM
This is a good writeup. I'm most concerned about modifying my sideplate for my current 112HN project. You know the one: I keep posting about it, but not actually doing anything... :-[
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Bryan Young on August 11, 2013, 05:18:33 AM
That's quite clever.  Thanks for sharing optional spring location method.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Shark Hunter on August 11, 2013, 06:51:17 PM
Good Job Chile! ;)
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: turboal on August 14, 2013, 12:41:02 AM
check out this reel . it was on e-bay for sale
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: broadway on August 14, 2013, 01:02:00 AM
That reel has been there for a while... if it was 100% "Accuratized" he would get what he's asking (from me;), but it's not.
You can buy 4  new 114h's on ebay if you're patient for that price or a heck of a lot of used ones.
Dom

Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: ChileRelleno on August 18, 2013, 08:58:01 AM
 ::)  Combine insomnia and boredom, and you annoy your wife with a Dremel at 3am.

So I milled out the original sideplate of my 114H to accept a double dog arrangement, and no more two tone color scheme.
Received a 9/0 stainless dog from Lee, so now I can work on getting the dogs to engage simultaneously.


Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: floating doc on August 18, 2013, 12:56:25 PM
That's a good photo. The color difference in the milled out section shows up well. I like the leaf spring setup. I think that is a lot simpler than trying to find another coil spring.

What material did you use to fabricate the spring? I think I read somewhere on this site that a razor blade would work.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Keta on August 18, 2013, 02:07:16 PM
Quote from: floating doc on August 18, 2013, 12:56:25 PM
What material did you use to fabricate the spring? I think I read somewhere on this site that a razor blade would work.

It looks like a 14-114 dog spring.

Nice job CR.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Shark Hunter on August 18, 2013, 07:12:20 PM
Looking good! Chile! ;D
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: bajaandy on September 20, 2013, 03:08:29 AM
Wow... nice clean work on that second dog setup Chille. Looks good!
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Cone on September 20, 2013, 03:52:34 AM
Good job, Chile. Now we need some catch pics!  BTW Did the ss ever smooth out?   Bob
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: ChileRelleno on September 22, 2013, 05:45:08 AM
Thanks for the compliments.
I took my time and did that one slow, careful and right.
I really like that dog spring configuration, and yes, it's a standard Penn 14-114 spring

Quote from: Cone on September 20, 2013, 03:52:34 AM
Good job, Chile. Now we need some catch pics!  BTW Did the ss ever smooth out?   Bob
Bob, I still haven't had a chance to put some fish on it, but it functions very satisfactorily after just spinning it for awhile.
You Sir went way beyond in helping me out, I can not express enough gratitude.
And this seems to be the norm, here and at other tight knit online communities that I visit online.
I've done much the same at Saiga12.com, love that good karma and I'll be sure to pay-it-forward.
Thanks again for the Hens Teeth and other items  8)

I've a 9/0 to double dog next when Alan gets another batch of 115L gear sleeves in.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: jonnou on September 03, 2014, 08:44:32 AM
Just finished reading this thread (all of it)
Got a couple of answers from it
I have the newer sideplate as shown by Sal
I also have a brass gear that has a little raised portion in the bottom of where the drag stack goes
seems strange
will post photos if this isn't normal
cool old and long Post

Just  Bought a 114 for $60 New Zealand not working
Just a bit of Lube and  replace a missing bridge screw and it should be a goldie ;D ;D

Cheers Jon
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on September 03, 2014, 08:56:37 AM
Thanks Jon, glad you enjoyed it.
This post is what started IT all...not the Tank. ;D

Sal
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: jonnou on September 03, 2014, 09:36:57 AM
Any Ideas on the Gear Sal?
Has a raised bump like they have on some Diawas
drag washer was deformed as you would expect
will post on this but my guess is you have an answer ;)
I bought this reel to resell and make a $ to justify my hobby
But I can see it D DOGGED with a 7plus, Black pearl Gears ,AT handle....
have to hide it from the Wife
thanks Jon
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Alto Mare on September 03, 2014, 11:38:45 AM
Jon, do you mean something as  these on the middle by the four lined up gears?
(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/pescatore3/004_zps73ccd9df.jpg) (http://s766.photobucket.com/user/pescatore3/media/004_zps73ccd9df.jpg.html)
If it is just a little I usually let it go, but if it will interfere with clearance, you'll need to grind it flush.
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: jonnou on September 04, 2014, 06:10:56 AM
No thats the underside Right?
Mines on the drag side  will post photos
seems to be an anomaly
like you say needs to be  ground flat
Thanks Jom
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: Shark Hunter on September 04, 2014, 07:23:00 AM
Jon,
If its just the insert part. Smack it back in. ;)
Title: Re: Penn 114H second AR dog
Post by: jonnou on September 04, 2014, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Shark Hunter on September 04, 2014, 07:23:00 AM
Jon,
If its just the insert part. Smack it back in. ;)
True
Im used to Hitting stuff
I am a Carpenter
I try not to hit my reels though
I have often wanted too!!!!

I put it back together (round file on ID of first CF washer) and got 11kgs smooth drag and had some in the bank
good enough for me $60nzd well spent :) :
Jon,