Hey guys, I thought that I would show you some previews of my next project...
I'm converting a PENN 113H into a Yellow Tail Special.
Here are some of the parts that I will be using:
The reel will have stainless steel gears 4:1; two stainless steel dogs; a stainless steel sleeve from our teacher ;D a stainless steel yoke; a Newell narrow spool and all of the other good stuff.
The reel will be built like a tank, I'm going to challenge anyone to come up with a better reel for the money.
Dom, I know you love your 113H's as I do ;), as you can see it can be done.
Rob, please note the washer under the gear ;D.
Unfortunatley, I don't remember where I got the stainless steel dogs from, I purchased them a while back and I just can't recall. I don't know when I'm going to complete this prooject, when I do I will show some pics. Enjoy. Sal
(http://i.imgur.com/UAV74es.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/yyXbyq3.jpg)
QuoteRob, please note the washer under the gear ;D.
Sal, I see you blew the red dust off the washer this time. ::) The washer looks brand new since you cleaned it. ;) You could call the conversion the M1A1 or a 113S (S for Sal). ;D All joking aside, that is some fine looking work and I'm sure it will be a killer reel. I have your address, so I'll put my two 113H's and my 114H in tomorrow's mail to you for conversion. :D :D
Nice, so if I don't have stainless dogs, could I just use 2 regular dogs to get the double dog.
good 1 sal
i have a ? about the double dogs in a lot of reels not just this one.why do double dogs work independately of each other and not together.wouldnt they be twice as strong if they locked in together at the same time.it wouldnt seem a problem for the blokes on this site.cheers
Sal, I'm with Rob. I've got 4 6/0 that could use your loving touches. Now, now can I modify my progears? That would be awesome. Alternating dogs are just fine. Not as much handle play. Very cool stuff you've done there Sal.
Quote from: Bryan Young on December 02, 2011, 06:27:46 AM
Sal, I'm with Rob. I've got 4 6/0 that could use your loving touches. Now, now can I modify my progears? That would be awesome. Alternating dogs are just fine. Not as much handle play. Very cool stuff you've done there Sal.
Bryan, the progears are similar to Penn. I don't see why couldn't, but I don't have a plate to look at :-\. Your right about very little handle play, on the 113H there isn't any ;). I like what I see in that reel, but, didn't assemble one yet.
Quote from: wallacewt on December 02, 2011, 05:23:47 AM
good 1 sal
i have a ? about the double dogs in a lot of reels not just this one.why do double dogs work independately of each other and not together.wouldnt they be twice as strong if they locked in together at the same time.it wouldnt seem a problem for the blokes on this site.cheers
Wallace, you always come up with good ones, sometimes I wonder if you already know the answer or just testing us :-\. This all thing is new to me, this is what I came up with. On the 114H the double dogs work indipendently, with every click of the gear sleeve the right side dog locks in, on the next click the left locks in. On the 113H, both dogs lock in at the same time, giving the handle no play...I relly like it ;). I think that the difference has to do with size :-\. Your next question about about the dogs locking in together, it's obvious that it would be stronger, but don't think that a double dog that works indipendently is a bad ting ;).
Quote from: seaeagle2 on December 02, 2011, 04:16:36 AM
Nice, so if I don't have stainless dogs, could I just use 2 regular dogs to get the double dog.
Yes, go for it!
Guys, please note that the dog springs are different, I just picked some from my parts and didn't bother matching. When I'm going to assemble the reel, they will be the same. I just wanted to mention it....Rob really likes to take a closer look and I don't want to be scolded ;D.
Here is another shot that I couldn't get to post last night.
(http://i.imgur.com/WgIcKo4.jpg)
Quote from: seaeagle2 on December 02, 2011, 04:16:36 AM
Nice, so if I don't have stainless dogs, could I just use 2 regular dogs to get the double dog.
Are stainless steel dogs available for these reels?
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 02, 2011, 11:11:34 AM
....Rob really likes to take a closer look and I don't want to be scolded ;D.
:D :D :D All in good fun, my friend.
not that i've ever seen.......
I just realized, you had to "mill" out the area for the 2nd dog and spring to set in. Is it a "trade secret", or can you shed some light on how you did it.
Hello Sal,
I completed the double dog work on a Penn 113H and it does work well. One thing I noticed is the bridge does not cover the second spring very well. I put some Cal's grease over the spring in hopes the grease will help keep the spring in place. Let us know what you think about this when you get your reel together.
Thanks for sharing this reel upgrade with all of us.
John
Hey Sal: Since winter is fast approaching, I thought I might do this to my 113H, just for the heck of it. Would you list all the parts I will need to do one and and where you bought them. Also put on your thinking cap to try to remember where you got the SS dogs? Dominick
Quote from: john2244 on December 02, 2011, 08:03:32 PM
Hello Sal,
I completed the double dog work on a Penn 113H and it does work well. One thing I noticed is the bridge does not cover the second spring very well. I put some Cal's grease over the spring in hopes the grease will help keep the spring in place. Let us know what you think about this when you get your reel together.
Thanks for sharing this reel upgrade with all of us.
John
Hey john, sorry that it isn't working out for you. What type of problem are you having? You will not be able to cover the second spring completely, but if you did as I 'm showing, you would be ok.
This would be good enough, the spring is covered half way and can't pop out, tell me some more. If your problem is related mechanically, it could be the shaving. If you didn't go deep enough the dog would have friction with the plate, going too deep will also work againt you.
I just assembled a reel to test it, I wasn't ready to do it, but I wanted to make sure that there wasn't any problem. The reel is working flawlessly. Take another look at what I did and take your time, the 113H is harder than the 114H. I did the 113H in about 30 minutes, but I've been using power tools for over 35 years. Good luck and take care. Sal
(http://i.imgur.com/516rbOM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5QWu88t.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/p48tcwJ.jpg)
Hi Sal,great job you have done there. Got me thinking if it would be possible to modify the bridge to retain double dogs and springs as an integral unit similar to the Jigmaster bridge assembly. It would be easy to assemble without having to fiddle with the loose dog spring/s.
Very good idea Jigger, especially for the smaller reels...well maybe up to the jigmaster, it would be an overkill on anything less. We are at the biginning with this, I'm sure there is room for improvements. Glad you like it.
By the way, it's not that bad to assemble, I came home a little while ago and assembled one in 5 minutes. Like everything else, it gets easy with practice.
Sal,
I think you misread my message, my reel is working fine !!! I was just concerned about the dog spring not being covered by the bridge. I used a stock spring and I think it is has a little smaller diameter that the spring you used. I may add a different spring at a later time.
John
Yes John, I did misred your message, that's what happens when you're too lazy to put on reading glasses ;D. Not a problem though, I had to try it for myself. If you're concerned about the spring, go ahead and get a wider one, this is actually a good idea for anybody that goes alittle wider at that area. Take care. Sal
Quote from: Pescachaser on December 02, 2011, 10:35:00 PM
Hey Sal: Since winter is fast approaching, I thought I might do this to my 113H, just for the heck of it. Would you list all the parts I will need to do one and and where you bought them. Also put on your thinking cap to try to remember where you got the SS dogs? Dominick
Dominick, there is no need to list any parts. All you need is a 113H and one extra dog with spring, oh yes, and a dremel. The only thing you need to do is to take you time and absolutely NO ZIN! ;D. Keep testing the shaved area with the dog, try to leave enough material on the side of the new dog spring and you should be ok ;).
Love it. Great work Sal - will be following your lead on my 113H shortly.
Cheers, Justin
Great, Justin. Let us know on how you make out.
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 03, 2011, 01:16:59 AM
Quote from: Pescachaser on December 02, 2011, 10:35:00 PM
Hey Sal: Since winter is fast approaching, I thought I might do this to my 113H, just for the heck of it. Would you list all the parts I will need to do one and and where you bought them. Also put on your thinking cap to try to remember where you got the SS dogs? Dominick
Dominick, there is no need to list any parts. All you need is a 113H and one extra dog with spring, oh yes, and a dremel. The only thing you need to do is to take you time and absolutely NO ZIN! ;D. Keep testing the shaved area with the dog, try to leave enough material on the side of the new dog spring and you should be ok ;).
What about the SS parts you used. I wouldn't go through the trouble of putting an extra dog in the reel unless I beefed up the reel with SS bridge and sleeve. I guess I'll go back and look at your original post as soon as I sober up ::). Dominick
Sal, that is a seriously cool mod. I was going to do something else tonight.... but that aint happening now I've seen this!
Top Stuff! Now if I could figure out a way of machining a small captive tapered roller bearing into the base of the sleeve in my 113H's, and/or coming-up with a sideplate design that retains the sleeve with a tapered roller bearing rather than relying on the driven-in pin just to get rid of some more friction.... and to ramp-up that drag pressure another 10 or so lbs.... :o ;D
I'll keep dreaming and drawing.... :)
Dave
Quote from: Pescachaser on December 02, 2011, 10:35:00 PM
I wouldn't go through the trouble of putting an extra dog in the reel unless I beefed up the reel with SS bridge and sleeve. Dominick
[/quote]
Why not? ::)
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 03, 2011, 01:10:04 PM
Why not? ::)
Because we can ;D
Just got finished putting in a SS sleeve I bought for my project 113HN and one I "found" (in a pile of HT-100 washers someone left in my truck last year) on one of my 500s. I can't convince most of the people I do repair work for that a SS gear sleve is a good upgrade and is it needed for a 9 or 109 reel ( ??? the most comon "big" reel where I live ???) used for the large redband trout that live in Klamath Lake. Oh well, I make a bit of $ when I replace their brass ones.
Sal,
You answered my question, if it can be done to the 113H, and you did an awesome job! I like how the spring sits on the new dog... it's straighter than the old one. I have got some serious work to do this winter! I would say you're a true pioneer with this "reel thing." Keep the inventions coming! I'm with Dominick, where did you find those dogs?! Is there a machinist on here that wants to make a batch? I'll take 2 dozen, easy!
I don't own any progears, but aren't the side plates made if metal? that wouldn't shave down to well without a CNC would it?
Thanks for the pointers,
Dom
I'm glad you like it Dom. If you have the red plates instead of the older maroon ones go for it, hold up on the maroon ones, I'm trying to figure something out to make it work. On the 114H it's not a problem. As for the progears, I'm sure that shaving the aluminum won't be a problem, you need the right bits.
Guys, in case you have a plate similar to the one that I'm showing, Hold up!
(http://i.imgur.com/TPwbFo6.jpg)
The maroon plate is natched at both sides, this will make installing the dog spring a little challenging. The red plate is solid and it's not a problem.
I'm trying to figure out a way to make it work, Just in case you already attempted to install a double dog on a plate similar to this one, don't sweat it, I'm sure we'll find a way. You shouldn't have any problems with the 114H.
the plate you have was designed to swing right or left!
Would a flat spring work for the new dog?
it should. it worked on the 114h .....
Ok, this is what I came up with and its working just fine.
(http://i.imgur.com/1nJ7Xov.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/0mDQyBA.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/89gfIyO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JLGALKC.jpg)
You will need to notch the bottom part also, so that the spring can hold tension. You will also need to file down the new dog, I used a flat file and it's no biggie. Everything is working as it should, again this is only for the plates that you're able to switch from right to left.
I'm customizing another reel trying something different. I let you know how that goes.
PS I had about two dozen springs go out of orbit on me ;D...Take your time!
Sal, you're a freakin' genius. You should be a design engineer for Penn, but not in China!
Rob
Quote from: norcal pescador on December 04, 2011, 04:23:40 PM
Sal, you're a freakin' genius. You should be a design engineer for Penn, but not in China!
Rob
Well said Rob. ;D
No genius here, Rob and Jigger....just playing around with this stuff. I didn't really take my time on the shaving, I was just trying to find a way to make it work. I'm sure you guys get the idea and will be able to do a cleaner job. about those stainless steel dogs, I only have two and are going in my personal tank....I mean reel. We should get someone to make some for us :-\
Rob, wait untill you see how lucky I got on a used reel that I purchased for $56 ;). It's about time, I usually get screwed...but most of the times I shop for parts.
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 04, 2011, 04:46:15 PM
.....about those stainless steel dogs, I only have two and are going in my personal tank....I mean reel. We should get someone to make some for us
Rob, wait untill you see how lucky I got on a used reel that I purchased for $56 ;). It's about time, I usually get screwed...but most of the times I shop for parts.
I think SS dogs could be cut using a water jet cutter.
Sometimes you win sometimes you loose when online bidding. Over all I've come out well, one poorly represented item (not the same as in photo or discription) and the rest of the "bad buys" due mostly to me. I get Penn reels at a deep discount now but before I fell into this deal I picked up a NIB Penn 70 for $399+ shipping. I didn't need a third one but I watched it for a week and no one bid on it, at the last minute my fingers hit the keys and I ended up with it. The 80lb hollow JB I filled it with was almost 1/2 of the price I paid for the reel.
Are the 113hn dogs stainless steel?
Quote from: Irish Jigger on December 04, 2011, 05:52:40 PM
Are the 113hn dogs stainless steel?
If you mean the Baja Special, YES! But I don't think they will fit the other Senators.
Alto Mare,
I think you've created a monster here and you are going to have a group of cult followers; me being one of them. ;D I'm looking at my reels now and deciding on which ones I want to try this mod.
George
Nice solution, Sal. Just to be clear, that is a 113h dog that you filed? ...it looks bigger (bet you heard that before;)
Dom
Dom, it's a 113H dog. It's probably a good idea to use a flat spring form a 114H, I used a smaller one. I had planty of the others, but a lot of them went flying. I have a small workbench in the loundry room and sometimes my wife has clothes on the floor, near my bench. I'm hoping that some of those springs didn't get jammed in some underwears ;D. she's already complaning about all the crap that I have lying around.
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 04, 2011, 10:14:35 PM
she's already complaining about all the crap that I have lying around.
Sal: you are talking about in your underwear? ;D Dominick
Quote from: Pescachaser on December 04, 2011, 11:25:54 PM
Sal: you are talking about in your underwear? ;D Dominick
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Keta on December 04, 2011, 05:16:54 PM
I think SS dogs could be cut using a water jet cutter.
I think you're right, Keta.
A water jet cutter would do a nice job on those dogs, have you looked at Alans wrench? I think That wrench was cut with a water jet cutter, and it's way more detailed than the dogs.
Come to think of it, Alan, don't I get a wrench for having 3 photo of the month in one month? ;D Just kidding, Alan we should be sending you stuff for. Thanks for putting up with us.
three photos is actually just about right for the amount of work that it takes. a wrench is nothing compared to the work required to do a full rebuild post! ;D
Quote from: broadway on December 04, 2011, 02:16:50 AM
Sal,
I don't own any progears, but aren't the side plates made if metal? that wouldn't shave down to well without a CNC would it?
Thanks for the pointers,
Dom
Here you go, Dom and guys. Working on aluminum is also possible. I used carbite bits that come as a set with the dremel, dunk the bit in grease every 15 seconds or so and make the tool do the work, don't rush it. I did this free hand, the shaving could be cleaner using better tools. A coil spring will not work here, you need to re-shape the dog, as I showed you earlier and use a flat spring, not a big deal. I must really like you guys, it's not easy to take a chance on a $50 plate ;D
(http://i.imgur.com/BHLKINJ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fcGVREi.jpg)
I'm waiting on a stainless steel handle for my reel/tank...I will post some pictures when I put it together. Sal
Great job Sal.
You're a brave man Sal, very nice work.
Nice job Sal, im watching this post with great interest !
Awesome job, Sal... thanks for showing us the way. I would throw some clear nail polish on that bare metal if ya didn't already.
That things a beast!
Thanks again,
Dom
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 11, 2011, 11:20:53 PM
I must really like you guys, it's not easy to take a chance on a $50 plate ;D
Sal
You know you love us. Tell the truth we make your day :). Dominick
Quote from: Harry on December 14, 2011, 01:44:49 PM
Nice job Sal, im watching this post with great interest !
Glad you're enjoing it, Harry.
Quote from: broadway on December 14, 2011, 06:00:40 PM
Awesome job, Sal... thanks for showing us the way. I would throw some clear nail polish on that bare metal if ya didn't already.
That things a beast!
Thanks again,
Dom
Just showing the basics Dom, you need to take it from there. Anything would help there, grease or a couple of drops of tsi301. But if nail polish is your thing, go for it :-* ;D
Quote from: Pescachaser on December 14, 2011, 06:10:47 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 11, 2011, 11:20:53 PM
I must really like you guys, it's not easy to take a chance on a $50 plate ;D
Sal
You know you love us. Tell the truth we make your day :). Dominick
You know it ;).
O.K. fellas, I got all of the parts that I needed then I said to myself, "Well, Alan really deserves the credit here because he is the motivation behind these ideas that we post here" so, thanks Alan!
Here are a couple of pictures of the assembly...
(http://i.imgur.com/DDie2oV.jpg)
I started working on the bearings (I decided to leave them open on this one!)
(http://i.imgur.com/sSmetk4.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/H1VuYeU.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/4btAinz.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/zALLa6a.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/yAcuD2l.jpg)
Next, I set the drags. I prefer to use the same CF drag for under the gear...it has been working out well for me.
(http://i.imgur.com/RirYIzh.jpg)
Next, I set the bridge and the main gear. I then pulled the bridge out gently which keeps all the drags stacked in place.
(http://i.imgur.com/4WanGwu.jpg)
I then set the 2 dogs in place and set the bridge in.
(http://i.imgur.com/oQzmU1P.jpg)
Next, I installed the Tiburon Frame (please note that this frame has been manufactured in a way that it gets installed without the inner ring) nice product!
(http://i.imgur.com/iCgHDI1.jpg)
Next, I set the Newell spool in (nice, tight fit)
(http://i.imgur.com/e0X6m2J.jpg)
Now, I install the left side plate
(http://i.imgur.com/UP3Fp15.jpg)
The handle goes in next. I really like these stainless steel handles!
(http://i.imgur.com/VnhMUcK.jpg)
I finally broke down and decided to use my Alan Tani wrench. Great tool, thanks, Alan!
...Here is the finished product...
(http://i.imgur.com/gsqi1dz.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/tAj4l9X.jpg)
I wouldn't be too worried about pushing this little "tank" to 25 lbs. or more! Hope you all enjoy it! Sal
Very nice, Sal. ;) I still say you should be a consulting design engineer at Penn. 8)
Rob
Hey Sal: I have a 113H sitting in my garage doing nothing. I was under the impression that one could not put 25lbs of drag on that reel because the side plates and bearing would not take it. Does wrapping them around a Tiburon frame make the whole set-up stronger? I also see that you have a new 5 stack drag and stainless sleeve. Anything else? Dominick
Dominick,
Looks like Sal's got a tib frame, set of stainless Newell 4:1 gear/pinion, stainless yoke, juiced up stainless handle, twin dogs, stainless sleeve, and a 5:1 stack (as you mentioned), and don't be surprised if Sal's got a screw longer or a spring stronger than the standard here or there ;) ... She's loaded! I wouldn't put a constant 25 on her, but she will surely max out somewhere up there before a failure. How long are we gonna wanna hold onto 25lbs. of drag for anyway?! The tiburon frame keeps the spool, frame, and rest of the reel in alignment for the most efficient operation without creating a stress point at every post...the frame supports the reel 360 degrees.
Hey Sal,
if the clear nail polish don't work try some lipstick ;D
Again... nice job, pal!
Rob,
Maybe he should start his own company... with all of us as consultants, of course! ...imagine the board meetings!!! ;D
Thanks guys! Dominick everyone is going to have their own opinion on this one, I personally believe that it could handle it. Dom also made a good point, how long are you going to be able to hold that pressure. As for the parts that I used on this reel, Dom pretty much got it covered, except the gears.... these are 4:1 Accurate, not Newell. I was going to order a stainless steel clicker spring, but changed my mind. The clicker tongue is beefier than the stock though amd that's about it.
Dom, will ChapStick work? I use a lot of that ;)
Sal
You are forcing me to spend money on another project/toy, nice work!!!
I guess I didn't get a good look, they look spur cut not helical. Regardless, she's the beast from the east!
Chapstick sounds good! ;)
Dom
Great job Sal, as always. ;)
Thanks guys!
Quote from: Keta on December 16, 2011, 03:08:44 PM
You are forcing me to spend money on another project/toy....
::) What else is there Lee? ;D
VERY nice Sal. I am amazed. I have one Idea for you dough. How about a red t bar handle. Accurate have some t bars in red and the Jigging master handle, would make it bad ####.
jm handle
(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/hafnor/DSC04661.jpg)
As far as Tanks go,, I like it!! Very well thought out, and innovative to boot!!
Would like an opportunity to fish with that type tackle.. !!!
Quote from: hafnor on December 17, 2011, 02:11:15 AM
VERY nice Sal. I am amazed. I have one Idea for you dough. How about a red t bar handle. Accurate have some t bars in red and the Jigging master handle, would make it bad ####.
jm handle
(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/hafnor/DSC04661.jpg)
Thanks for the tip hafnor, that t bar looks great but it's just too rich for my blood.
I thought that my hadle fit the reel nicely, the stainless steel handle goes nicely with the stainless steel rings and the black knob picks up the black spool. The complete handle cost me less than $40, the knob that you're showing costs around $75 alone. The handle that I'm showing can take a lot more abuse than the aluminum handle, that is why I like them much better.
I know what you mean about matching color, I have done a few reels in the past , but again I wouldn't compare them with the one that I have on my little tank ;).
Here are a couple of shots of matching handles that I've done in the past...
(http://i.imgur.com/UlUC95u.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZSkEtik.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/lMmKDhq.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/WOJVAmr.jpg)
Quote from: Snagged2 on December 17, 2011, 03:11:46 AM
As far as Tanks go,, I like it!! Very well thought out, and innovative to boot!!
Would like an opportunity to fish with that type tackle.. !!!
Thanks! Snagged2.
What's stopping you from customizing your own? Get yourself a 113H and go to work ;)
WOW, I see you got your game right! that first red handle there looks awesome... Where do you find these products?
Hafnor, I purchased these handles a couple of years ago. The name of the company was K.O. Kustomz ( as you can see on the handle ). I haven't seen any activities from him for a while now :-\. What cought my eyes on these handles was the way that he recessed the handle at the mounting area... makes the handle screw look almost flush with the handle itself, you can see it on the red handle. It's a shame I haven't see him around anymore, he was a great guy to deal with and always gave me a break on multiple handles.
Here are the few that I kept for myself:
(http://i.imgur.com/O4GPEj6.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/M6QAk5v.jpg)
Hey Sal,
K.O. Customz is still in business (at least he was 1 1/2 yrs ago.) I have 4 handles from them. They are awesome! I also like how the handle screw sits almost flush. The stainless is more functional and durable, however those KO's trick out a Penn something hot.
Dom
im amazed and feel very inadaquate.i wouldnt be game to touch them reels,i might leave a fingerprint.
Here is another option for the older plate that is designed to swing right or left....for what it's worth:
(http://i.imgur.com/uBXb1BL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/6yXmutp.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/XUcM0jD.jpg)
I did test it on a reel and it's working just fine. I found the longer coiled spring at a Home Center and it is a stainless steel spring.
You will just need to cut it to size. The new dog has been notched so that the spring can slide in place. It's no big deal; all you do is hold the cutting blade there and let it do the work.
Thanks for that Sal - been looking at my Dremel attachments and wondering which would be best for the job.
With the Christmas break looming, it's double-dog time... ;)
Cheers mate, Justin
Hey Sal,
I was thinking to create a nipple in the frame, but a notch in the dog is much easier. Way to perfect a great idea!
Dom
Dom, I'm just putting things out there. I'm sure someone can improve on it. The first plate that I'm showing with the double dogs is the best setup. this last one is also working great, but I would still like to find a spring a little smaller in diameter than this one...it isn't binding anywhere though. Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 19, 2011, 11:32:49 PM
Correction! The tool is $24.99 not $23.96...don't want Rob to grill me ;D he likes to keep it smooth.
Everything else is accurate...I think! ;D
??? ???
Just bringing an old joke back from the biginning , Rob. Later Bro.
I knew you wouldn't pass on a challenge... like I said that reel is a behemoth!
Nice old school fighting belt ;)
Dom
Dom, I wouldn't push it any further with that aluminum spool. When I get a chance I will be putting one together with the one piece cast spool, I won't have any worries pushing it to its limit then. Good thing most guys prefer the aluminum spools.... that gives me a better chance to find a few one piece cast spools for myself ;).
Sal,
I don't blame ya for not pushing that aluminum spool... the chromed over spool can take anything.
As for getting your paws on the chromed over spools... hope we won't be bidding against each other ;)
Dom
Dom, you need to pay more attention bud. Did you see what's in the bottom drawer of my custom cabinet? I think there are about a dozen of those spools in new condition ;). Sal
I should've known... shame on me ;) BTW, I bought 8 113HSP's (USA made) when I knew they were taking the work overseas... great minds think alike, bro!
PS- we're still gonna buy more... isn't that ridiculous!
Dom
i, for one, was very impressed!!!!
Quote from: norcal pescador on December 20, 2011, 06:22:45 AM
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 19, 2011, 11:32:49 PM
Correction! The tool is $24.99 not $23.96...don't want Rob to grill me ;D he likes to keep it smooth.
Everything else is accurate...I think! ;D
??? ???
THE "JOKE"
The whole "joke" thing originated from my razzing Sal on his first conversion on a 114H. His photos showed a red fiber washer instead of an HT100 under the main gear and he said it was "red dust from the project". It took me a while to remember the jab and it was all in good-natured fun. I respect Sal, consider him a friend and it won't be the last time we poke fun at each other. 8)
Quote from: Alto Mare on December 20, 2011, 02:21:26 AM
Dom, I'm just putting things out there. I'm sure someone can improve on it. The first plate that I'm showing with the double dogs is the best setup. this last one is also working great, but I would still like to find a spring a little smaller in diameter than this one...it isn't binding anywhere though. Sal
Look at Penn Part #32-2000CQ. It is the bail spring from a Penn Conquer 2000/4000 Spinning Reel. Not sure of the overall diameter you are looking for, but they are pretty small.
Thanks for the info Jess. I just received an order from Scott's and had some coiled springs with the order, part # 14-109. I didn't get to try them yet, but it looks like that they might work, in case they don't i will give the #32-2000CQ a shot. I still want to mention that there are a lot of plates floating around the internet, like the one that I'm showing in the first picture. personally, I would just stick with those. Sal
G'day Sal,
Just wanted to pass on my gratitude for the double-dog inspiration.
I'd considered it for a wee while, but hadn't taken the time to work through the project till you laid it all out for us.
Here's my effort today:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/20/3590_07_08_17_4_15_43_20762105.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/20/3590_07_08_17_4_15_44_207631223.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/20/3590_07_08_17_4_15_44_207642032.jpeg)
Very happy with the outcome (aside from stripping one of those short reel-foot screws in my Tib frame during reassembly - D'oh! :-\).
Will shim with a copper insert tomorrow.
Thanks again mate - your tutorial was invaluable.
All the best, Justin
Looks like a factory job mate, well done! ;D
Very nice job Justin, I'm glad it worked out for you. Sal
Come on guys, we need to see more.
By the way, here's the finished product.
(Not quite Sal's tank but, with the eventual addition of S/S dogs and upgraded gears, it'd be getting close... ;) )
(http://alantani.com/gallery/20/3590_07_08_17_4_15_45_207671251.jpeg)
I also found that I'd somehow ended up with six short frame screws around the (former) reel seat, which is why one stripped - it only had about a turn's purchase in the frame.
I've replaced these with regular 39A screws as per the other 10 and all's well again.
Cheers, Justin
Well....I too took it upon myself to make one of these. Here is where I got....
What I found was that my stock 113h spring, did not have enough "return" to push the dog 100% back each time it was supposed too...leaving only the original dog doing the work.
ANyone else run into this or know what the problem could be?
(http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww8/marlinmate/113h.jpg)
Marlinmate: I have not done one yet but in looking at your photograph it looks like the groove you cut is about a 1/16 inch too long. Try to stretch out the spring a little and test it again. Dominick
G'day MM,
Try Dominick's suggestion but, if it doesn't help, it may be that the dog itself is binding very slightly between the bridge and side plate, preventing it from returning fully.
I found this during the milling/testing/milling/testing process...
Have you checked that the depth of your tooling is uniform?
I used a micrometer - from memory, the milling is 2.5mm deep.
Hope that's of some assistance.
Let us know how you go.
Good luck, Justin
PS You may also need a fraction more space around the bottom curve of the base of the dog.
I'm glad you gave it a shot Jess. The problem with that dog is that you did too good of a job. Try leaving a hair of space at the bottom of the new dog..as Justin mentioned,also, from the looks of your new dog it appears that it is a little high. If you have the bit that I'm showing, it will tune it up in no time. My bit is a little beat up, I've done about a dozen of these plates. Sorry about the picture quality, my camera battery just died. Great job! I'm sure you'll get it to work.
(http://i.imgur.com/Mu4qjrC.jpg)
Well...I actually took the 2nd dog out, and sent it down to my bro Coores14 in Key West to use for grouper digging with only one dog. I'll be down in May and may play with it a little more. Pretty nice big bro huh....upgraded gears, alan tani handle, new drags, 95% complete double dog etc....I'll probably build a rod for it too!
Alto...ever given any thought to making a "template" that would mount over the lower bridge screw that others could trace and then grind out that part of the sideplate? Might require 2 or 3 different ones, but would help others doing this upgrade. Just a thought
Quote from: broadway on December 22, 2011, 05:28:31 PM
Sal,
I don't blame ya for not pushing that aluminum spool... the chromed over spool can take anything.
As for getting your paws on the chromed over spools... hope we won't be bidding against each other ;)
Dom
Old post but thought I'd share the image. The bronze spools are indeed very tough. The fish around here are tougher. 12/0 spool cracked after hauling in a good size fish. Pressure of the mono line against the spools cracked it when it started to compress.
(https://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pRecpFoeQcxkzuvdb_xVg7XVeJbFNi1O77rxjvNTBGsuFzsqv9-hRcFy2JJtu2gn2RlKShq8PDt4Xkp9n6bMrbQ/Broken-12-0-cast-spool.jpg?psid=1)
Is that a one piece spool or three piece?
Quote from: Marlinmate on January 17, 2012, 12:52:07 AM
Well....I too took it upon myself to make one of these. Here is where I got....
What I found was that my stock 113h spring, did not have enough "return" to push the dog 100% back each time it was supposed too...leaving only the original dog doing the work.
ANyone else run into this or know what the problem could be?
get two springs, mash them together just a little offset and slide them in. i also have a spring that is longer than the #14-99 dog spring that you have now. let me know if you'd like one. alan
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 08, 2012, 09:55:09 PM
Is that a one piece spool or three piece?
It was the one piece cast spool. The three piece spools have the pressed flange that holds the sides onto the center shaft.
There is a review on Hawaii Fishing Forums of the Penn 113MTL reel. It's a 4/0 that's been beefed up and seems to be pretty much the same as Sal's reel. This is what the reviewer said about it:
QuoteThis reel is built like a tank and made in the USA, the main gear and pinion is made from hardened stainless steel, not bronze. Secondly the reel has spring loaded double dogs to prevent "knucklebusters." The main frame work is a thick 3/8" aluminum stock, the reel seat is made from thick stainless material. The lugs on the top of the reel is made of thick stainless steel, not chrome plated brass. The spool is dropped forged aluminum and machined. This reel has max drag rated at 25lbs.and has a gear ratio of 4.3 to 1. Even under heavy load of jacking up slide bait rigs with bait, the gear train is smooth and has a lot of torque. Both side plates are machined Aluminum. The screws are stainless steel with hex heads not slotted
Has anyone used this reel?
another great reel that was a total flop here on the west coast of the united states. funny thing about penn. they are an east coast company designing fishing reels for east coast customers. when they bring their reels to the west coast, they wonder why they won't sell. and when people from the west coast try to make suggestions, they are ignored. i think what penn needs is a separate west coast division, totally separate from the parent company, to crank out reels tailored to this market.
Quote from: Makule on February 12, 2012, 04:57:35 AM
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 08, 2012, 09:55:09 PM
Is that a one piece spool or three piece?
It was the one piece cast spool. The three piece spools have the pressed flange that holds the sides onto the center shaft.
I'm aware of the pressure that the line can put on a spool, but at the same time surprised that it would destroy that 12/0 spool, that's why I asked if it was a 3-piece spool. Penn did have problems with those...that's why the 3-piece didn't last long.
Not related but I just want to mention that in the late 90's a purchased a new 250HD truck and within 10,000 M the engine black cracked. No one could explain why it happened, maybe a bad cast job :-\.
The 12/0 has caught fish over 1,000lb in the past :-\.
Quote from: Makule on February 12, 2012, 05:13:10 AM
There is a review on Hawaii Fishing Forums of the Penn 113MTL reel. It's a 4/0 that's been beefed up and seems to be pretty much the same as Sal's reel. This is what the reviewer said about it:
QuoteThis reel is built like a tank and made in the USA, the main gear and pinion is made from hardened stainless steel, not bronze. Secondly the reel has spring loaded double dogs to prevent "knucklebusters." The main frame work is a thick 3/8" aluminum stock, the reel seat is made from thick stainless material. The lugs on the top of the reel is made of thick stainless steel, not chrome plated brass. The spool is dropped forged aluminum and machined. This reel has max drag rated at 25lbs.and has a gear ratio of 4.3 to 1. Even under heavy load of jacking up slide bait rigs with bait, the gear train is smooth and has a lot of torque. Both side plates are machined Aluminum. The screws are stainless steel with hex heads not slotted
Has anyone used this reel?
I haven't used the reel but from reading about it, it's similar but not the same reel. The 113MTL Has some other features. I'm old fashioned, although the 113MTL appears to be a nice reel, I prefer the simplicity and toughness of my little reel/tank.
Quote from: alantani on February 12, 2012, 05:27:45 AM
another great reel that was a total flop here on the west coast of the united states.
Why was it a "flop"?
When Penn came out the the three-piece spools, everyone else was doing the same thing. It was the state of the art at the time. Consider also that the lines used were linen (Cuttyhunk) that didn't stretch very much, and (not so much for reels) hard nylon, also with little stretch. Consequently, the spools didn't need to take as much pressure as those used with the stretchy mono.
I too was very surprised when the 12/0 cast spool crapped out. Thought it was pretty close to indestructible. May have been a poor casting, like the engine block.
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 12, 2012, 11:55:05 AM
Quote from: Makule on February 12, 2012, 04:57:35 AM
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 08, 2012, 09:55:09 PM
Is that a one piece spool or three piece?
It was the one piece cast spool. The three piece spools have the pressed flange that holds the sides onto the center shaft.
I'm aware of the pressure that the line can put on a spool, but at the same time surprised that it would destroy that 12/0 spool, that's why I asked if it was a 3-piece spool. Penn did have problems with those...that's why the 3-piece didn't last long.
Not related but I just want to mention that in the late 90's a purchased a new 250HD truck and within 10,000 M the engine black cracked. No one could explain why it happened, maybe a bad cast job :-\.
The 12/0 has caught fish over 1,000lb in the past :-\.
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 12, 2012, 12:05:35 PM
I haven't used the reel but from reading about it, it's similar but not the same reel. The 113MTL Has some other features. I'm old fashioned, although the 113MTL appears to be a nice reel, I prefer the simplicity and toughness of my little reel/tank.
Sal, I realize it's not the same reel and wondered if it would be significantly different from your reel. The reason I wondered is because Penn discontinued it within a short time so it was clearly unpopular. Why was this? I would think that a beefed up 4/0 would be something people would want.
Additionally, if it was so unpopular, perhaps there are people who bought them and would want to get rid of them (I might want to buy them). Depending on what the "problems" are, it might just be a few tweaks here and there to make it a very good reel.
I do have one 113H (early aluminum spool) and one 113LW. Are those worth modifying?
Makule, from looking at the schematics I would say that besides the size, the 113MTL is significantly different from the 113H.
I can't tell you why it was so unpopular, simply because I have never used one or opened one up, but I believe that Alan has. Come to think of it I don't think that there is a reel that Alan hasn't opened up yet ;D.
About the 113h and hlw, yes to me it is worth modifying. I personally believe that the 113H is still one of the best reel in its class, with over 50 years of good service to prove it.
QuoteI personally believe that the 113H is still one of the best reel in its class, with over 50 years of good service to prove it...
x2.
Cheers, Justin
Quote from: redsetta on February 12, 2012, 10:31:38 PM
QuoteI personally believe that the 113H is still one of the best reel in its class, with over 50 years of good service to prove it...
x2.
Cheers, Justin
Ok, two votes for the 113H. Tell me where I can get the SS gears.
What about the 113HLW? What's the difference between it and the 113H?
Mak,
X3 on Penn being one of the best in it's class! Get on ebay and prepare to pay the piper (about $100). Accurates are best, but Newell's are good, too. Don't forget the stainless yoke with that!
The 113hlw only differs from the 113h in spool size for more line capacity... other than that it's the same reel.
Dom
Quote from: Makule on February 12, 2012, 07:51:17 PM
Quote from: alantani on February 12, 2012, 05:27:45 AM
another great reel that was a total flop here on the west coast of the united states.
Why was it a "flop"?
it was ugly, and younger fishermen want lever drag bling. only us old guys are ok with "old school."
A bit of info about the 113MTL here, if you're interested: http://www.fishingunited.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4008 (http://www.fishingunited.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4008)
I agree - not the best-looking reel on the market...
Cheers, Justin
Quote from: Makule on February 12, 2012, 11:40:47 PM
Quote from: redsetta on February 12, 2012, 10:31:38 PM
QuoteI personally believe that the 113H is still one of the best reel in its class, with over 50 years of good service to prove it...
x2.
Cheers, Justin
Ok, two votes for the 113H ......
Make that 3 votes. ;)
Quote from: alantani on February 13, 2012, 12:05:49 AM
....... only us old guys are ok with "old school."
I'm okay with that. ;D ;D
I'm glad you stepped in Rob, for a moment I thought Alan was talking about me ;D ;D.
all of us!!!! if you're 20-something, you're going to look at that reel and think that it's something your grandpa would fish with. :-\
In a few years they'll probably be marketing reels made by nano-bots from 100% unobtainium, producing 100lbs of drag, holding 1000m of some exotic polymer and all in a package the size of a cotton spool. ;)
And I'll still be fishing a Penn or Pro Gear... ;D
Quote from: redsetta on February 13, 2012, 01:30:53 AM
....... all in a package the size of a cotton spool. ;) ..........
And I'll have a Kolekar 6/0 grip on it. :D :D
Hey Rob,
You weren't x3, you were x4... I beat you to it, but I am closer to 20 something, so I understand ;) ;D
Dom
....and several years from now, all fishing will be virtual.
Quote from: redsetta on February 13, 2012, 01:30:53 AM
In a few years they'll probably be marketing reels made by nano-bots from 100% unobtainium, producing 100lbs of drag, holding 1000m of some exotic polymer and all in a package the size of a cotton spool. ;)
And I'll still be fishing a Penn or Pro Gear... ;D
Quote from: alantani on February 13, 2012, 12:53:49 AM
all of us!!!! if you're 20-something, you're going to look at that reel and think that it's something your grandpa would fish with. :-\
What is wrong with being 20 something? I'm 21 and would be happy to use that reel ;D
Apparently, Penn still sells SS replacement main and pinion gears for the 113MTL. Will those fit in the
113H?
No, sorry!
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/Dogs2.jpg)
Sweet...Expensive ???
Very exciting Lee. I knew you would come through!
You're the man! ;)
Trade for reel work and fish.
That stainless looks very thin, is it the right size to use as dogs?
They are .006 too thick, the material is .100 the factory dog I have is .094.
Lee: Your old friend and good buddy :-* Dominick can use 2. How about that old buddy pal, :-* admirer, champion and protagonist? I'm sure you won't let your old pal down. ::) Whew! :-* Dominick
Great job Lee - well done.
Love fabrication.
Cheers, Justin
Hey lee,
Finally, someone did it... Nice! Ya got 4 extras that ya can't stand to look at any more? ;)
Dom
Nice job Lee,well done.
Quote from: Makule on February 16, 2012, 12:33:25 AM
....and several years from now, all fishing will be virtual.
Quote from: redsetta on February 13, 2012, 01:30:53 AM
In a few years they'll probably be marketing reels made by nano-bots from 100% unobtainium, producing 100lbs of drag, holding 1000m of some exotic polymer and all in a package the size of a cotton spool. ;)
And I'll still be fishing a Penn or Pro Gear... ;D
I sure hope not! :'( Virtual fish have no flavor! :P
QuoteI sure hope not! Cry Virtual fish have no flavor!
Maybe food will be synthetic too, and all flavors artificial.
Quote from: Keta on February 19, 2012, 08:18:10 PM
They are .006 too thick, the material is .100 the factory dog I have is .094.
Does the added thickness interfere with the action?
How can I get a few of these?
Albert, I love nuts, but I think that you're nuts. You sent me a bushel...I'm still laughing :D :D :D.
Thank you! Sal
Lee, the dogs just arrived. Excellent craftsmanship, they're perfect. Thank you! Sal
And thank you too.
Sal, it might be listed somewhere that I missed (or forgot), but could you please list all of the modifications you've made thus far? Also, what other mods are you considering, and what do you think could possibly be done to make the reel any better?
Albert, you're giving too much credit. I'm just a guy doing a little tweaking here and there, no genius here. As for making this reel better, I believe that what we've done here is pretty much it. You could add aluminum plates, but the stock plates should do just fine. Sal
Just to get it all in one place - and Sal, please revise if I miss anything - here are Sal's 'Tank' upgrades to date:
- Narrow frame and spool (Tiburon #T4NK)
- Alloy handle and S/S arm upgrade (Kolekar, Tiburon etc - lots of options)
- S/S gear sleeve (Alan Tani)
- S/S high-speed 4:1 gears (either Newell or Accurate)
- 1 x HT-100 under main gear (#6-113)
- 5 x HT-100 in drag stack (#6-320)
- S/S pinion yoke (Smooth Drag)
- Double dog upgrade via rotary tool
- S/S dogs
Hope that's of some assistance.
Cheers, Justin
OK,OK! This has created another reel upgrade THAT MUST BE DONE. Just when you thought you were through with them, they pull you back in. PLEASE,PLEASE,PRETTY PLEASE, make the dogs available. If they are how can I get my hands on a few.
Bob
Justin, Smooth drag offer's a SS yoke? Do I need to contact Dawn? I didn't see it on their site? Or maybe I just missed it?
Bob
G'day Bob,
Yeah, about halfway down this page: http://www.smoothdrag.com/price.html (http://www.smoothdrag.com/price.html)
QuoteStainless Steel Yoke
500 Penn 1 ......................... $4.00
#113H Penn 1 ....................... $4.00
#114H 1 ............................... $4.50
Email Dawn: info@smoothdrag.com
It's a great little upgrade...
Cheers, Justin
Justin,
Thanks so much for getting that for me. As luck would have it I'm going to need several of each. I'd better get to work!!!
Thanks, Bob
It looks like I get to give Dawn some more $.
Like I said, just when you thought you were done....you get pulled back in!!!
it's all good!
that's one of the tough things about the penn reels. the possible upgrades are endless....... ;D
Only because of guys like Sal. I get on the PB to go tuna fishing and you see mostly gold reels. Then here I come with these super mod. Penn's and I do get some strange looks. The satisfaction comes when the plan works. Keep them coming Sal.
Here's a question for Alan: Do you believe that Sal's "113H Tank" can hold up to being used at 25 lb. drag? What about higher?
G'day Makule,
I realise you asked the question of Alan, but I also built a tank like Sal's, with all the same upgrades, and the highest I've registered on a scale is 35lbs - with the star fully buttoned down.
I wouldn't fish it at this level, however - it was just a test of maximum capacity.
While it's yet to be pushed to the limit, the testing I've done indicates it'll happily pull a smooth 25lbs all day, with a little more to play with if the need arises.
Hope that helps.
Cheers, Justin
Justin, thank you.
With 25 lb or even 30 lb, do you think there should be no problem with damaging the gears? If so, that's how I will fish it.
Quote from: redsetta on February 28, 2012, 08:46:44 PM
G'day Makule,
I realise you asked the question of Alan, but I also built a tank like Sal's, with all the same upgrades, and the highest I've registered on a scale is 35lbs - with the star fully buttoned down.
I wouldn't fish it at this level, however - it was just a test of maximum capacity.
While it's yet to be pushed to the limit, the testing I've done indicates it'll happily pull a smooth 25lbs all day, with a little more to play with if the need arises.
Hope that helps.
Cheers, Justin
Good point.
Drag settings in excess of 20lbs definitely have the potential to damage the standard brass main gear on a 4/0.
However, stainless is highly unlikely to fail at those kinds of loads (ie maxing out at 25-30lb).
Hope that helps, Justin
I'm with Justin, but I think that this reel would be happy at 25lb and under. If you need more punch, get yourself a narrow 114H with the same upgrades. The 114H has the same drags as the 115 ( 9/0 ). If you're concerned about running out of line, get yourself the reel/tank big brother, the 114 WEX. I wouldn't be worried about pushing those reel to 30lb.
QuoteI think that this reel would be happy at 25lb and under. If you need more punch, get yourself a narrow 114H with the same upgrades...
x2.
Cheers, Justin
I would take Sal and Justin's souped up Penn's any day over other reels in their comparable range... I just trust them more, and of course know how to work on them a lil' ;)
I still gotta juice my soon to be shark reels (114hlw's) up for battle this summer with the double dogs. Maybe I should just bring Sal out... he could probably do it on the way out to the grounds with a rusty hook and some dental floss. ;)
Dom
Quote...he could probably do it on the way out to the grounds with a rusty hook and some dental floss...
No doubt. ;) ;D
Cheers for the inspiration Sal.
All the best, Justin
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 29, 2012, 01:57:35 AM
I'm with Justin, but I think that this reel would be happy at 25lb and under. If you need more punch, get yourself a narrow 114H with the same upgrades. The 114H has the same drags as the 115 ( 9/0 ). If you're concerned about running out of line, get yourself the reel/tank big brother, the 114 WEX. I wouldn't be worried about pushing those reel to 30lb.
The idea of using the 113H is primarily due to its lighter weight, for me. I have had the 114H, and still do fish with the 115, but age has been challenging my casting ability so I'm trying to get the lightest reel with the toughest drag. Ideally, 300 yards of 80 lb mono would be comfortable, but even 200 yards with very good drag would probably suffice. Many people here use the Newell reels, but they don't have the "guts" for me (somewhat fragile, weaker drags, etc.).
I mentioned to Sal in email that I saw a guy get spooled this weekend while using his Newell 546 filled with about 300 yards of 80 mono.
The strike lasted less than 2 minutes and from start to finish the rod didn't come up an inch. It was so fast and furious that the guy left the rod in the holder (he couldn't, or wouldn't, take it out, apparently), and I guess he was cranking down on the drag until the "bitter end" and then "crack", the line was all gone. Only nice spool left. I mention this because this is the kind of challenge I'm trying to deal with. While I'm not convinced that a 113H Tank will do any different, as I've seen 6/0s get stripped as well, at least I might have a better chance than with a Newell (that's what I can tell myself anyway).
My constraints are: The reel needs to be cast far (more than 100 yards); The line must be mono because braid will cut on the rocks every time (we do not fish in sand); The capacity should be at least 300 yards of 80 mono; The drag must be very strong; The gears must be very strong; and The frame must be very strong. The 113H Tank fills all those requirements except for the line capacity.
G'day Makule,
Just to add a bit more info, I only managed to spool about 250 yards of 50lb Momoi on my narrow 113H...
Cheers, Justin
Albert, the 113h reel/tank weights 1lb15oz
113hlw.......................2lb2oz
114hl narrow..................2lb12oz
114hl.........................2lb14oz
114wex 3lb
Sorry, I don't have the standard 113hl. Thanks to Lee I had to take it apart again to give it the ss dogs, I'm guessing 2lb on that one.
Unfortunately you can't have everything that you're looking for in one package, you have to compromise.
All of these reels are castable, but I also understand what you're saying about getting old and not being able to handle heavy reels.
I just want to mention that the narrow 114H is 14oz heavier than the 113h reel/tank. Sal
If you do find a lighter reel able to handle 30lb...good luck with it.
Mak,
I think the 100 yard toss with 80lb mono is gonna be a difficult feat as well, with the reel tank or "almost" (can't think of any that you can off the top of my head)any other reel for that matter. You guys must use some sick shock leaders! Maybe you should look for one of those harpoon guns (greenies) from "Jaws" to shoot your bait out there. ;D ;)
Dom
Sal, thanks for the weight comparison. That's good information.
QuoteI think the 100 yard toss with 80lb mono is gonna be a difficult feat as well, with the reel tank or "almost" (can't think of any that you can off the top of my head)any other reel for that matter. You guys must use some sick shock leaders! Maybe you should look for one of those harpoon guns (greenies) from "Jaws" to shoot your bait out there.
Yeah, it's not the easiest thing to do, but with practice it can be done. Some of the "power" casters were able to launch the anchor out a good 150 yards, and that's with 9/0 and 80 lb mono. I maxed out my 9/0 casts at about 90 yards. The 6/0 with 80 would go 120 yards. Never used a 4/0 because that wouldn't hold enough line (cast maybe 175 yards and have 25 yards of 80 lb mono left).
We use between 30 and 50 lb mono for our anchor lines, and I actually do have sort of a harpoon gun to fire the anchor. It will shoot the anchor 1/4 mile but it's very cumbersome and time consuming to set up. Sometimes 1/4 mile is too far anyway. I still do take it out once in a great while and use it with my 12/0 or 14/0.
That's hardcore fishing right there.... You cannon out your baits. ;)You must be shot by days end, huh? I would give the tank a shot especially with that extra wide tib frame. Good luck on your decision and be careful ya don't get pulled off those rocks by any whales you may hook ;D
Dom
QuoteGood luck on your decision and be careful ya don't get pulled off those rocks by any whales you may hook
That's what knives and cutting pliers are for. As a matter of fact, a few guys have got hung up on whales that came very close. It's a no-brainer to just cut the line at the reel. Since I'm cheap, though, I'd probably try to hang on and hope the line breaks at the whale end. I don't worry about being pulled in or losing the outfit because the reels are always tied down with a nice rope (3/8 to 1/2").
BTW, "makule" is the Hawaiian word for "old".
Had a whale get tied up with my friends pole once. We all casted out, and getting ready to slide the first bait, then wham... His 4/0 extended started screaming. We were all stunned because we were all getting the baits ready to slide for the evening, then the whale surface and snap! Spool emply and we were still sitting holding our slides. Brand new Maxima 80# gone in one heart best. Can be exciting. We were all teasing him for casting out too far for the entire night.
It sure would be exciting to hook into a whale! :o
I don't think I'd cut it either... maybe just jam a foot between a couple rocks and hang on ;)
Be safe out there,
Dom
Quote from: Bryan Young on March 01, 2012, 02:59:39 AM
Had a whale get tied up with my friends pole once. We all casted out, and getting ready to slide the first bait, then wham... His 4/0 extended started screaming. We were all stunned because we were all getting the baits ready to slide for the evening, then the whale surface and snap! Spool emply and we were still sitting holding our slides. Brand new Maxima 80# gone in one heart best. Can be exciting. We were all teasing him for casting out too far for the entire night.
How come no one grabbed the pole to hit full drag and turn it? ??? What kind of fisherman are you guys anyway. ;) Dominick
QuoteHow come no one grabbed the pole to hit full drag and turn it? Huh? What kind of fisherman are you guys anyway.
Yeah, I wondered about that myself. It's one thing to say, "I cast so far that I hooked up to a whale (we know whales will sometimes come right up to shore)", or "A whale caught my line" (it's unusual but not unheard of), but who else can say, "I fought a whale"? Now that would be impressive (even if it lasts only 2 seconds).
A friend of mine had a sub on for a minute or so off the east side of POW Island. In the same area another friend had his skiff bumped by a humpback and I've had them spray me when they surfaced. We also have had Orka surround our boat a time or two.
I didn't realize how dangerous fishing was on the West Coast... the only dangers here are the Coney Island Whitefish! :o
Dom
Broadway,
I probably fish the same areas that you do. East coast NY bight. Did you know that this is a Great White pupping ground. Food ( not us) for thought.
I've heard some stories about pup whites in the bight but no solid evidence. Im pretty sure the brown shark are pretty active off coney island... I have had them on a few times, but never landed one. There are always threshers caught in our area in the late summer and early fall. Last year I had a nice shark on when I brought my dentist and his son fishing for stripers in early fall, and with wire and no experience... This didn't last long! We'll talk more as our season approaches!
Thanks
Dom
Back to the Tank: Assuming there are graphite spools for the reel, would they be strong enough? I imagine that the metal ones would be stronger, but if it's enough, it's enough (for me). Don't know if those graphites ever break, but the metals ones do.
Albert, I'm surprised that you would even ask that question after seeing what you did to that 12/0 one-piece cast spool.
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 03, 2012, 05:06:33 AM
Albert, I'm surprised that you would even ask that question after seeing what you did to that 12/0 one-piece cast spool.
Lest you think me daft (wouldn't be far from the truth, however), here's the rationale: The 12/0 reel was filled with 100 lb mono. It broke after about 600 yards was wound in under considerable pressure (large shark). On the other hand, I have used the very old 3-piece, pressed together, spools on a 6/0 (only holds about 200 yards of 100 lb mono), and have never had a problem with them, including two of my largest fish.
With very limited line, there is much less pressure built up on the spool, even if the line is wound under pressure. In a situation where the amount of line on the spool becomes very great, the lateral pressure (against the spool sides) becomes enormous. In a hypothetical situation, it would not surprise me, for example, if even a solid cast bronze spool on the 113 would break simply by winding it full with 4 lb mono under pressure. The cumulative pressure of those thousands of turns would likely far exceed the pressure generated by the hundreds of turns of much larger line. In a much exaggerated example, only to demonstrate the point, if you were to take 1/4" rope and wind it around your hand as tight as you could for 5 turns, you'd feels some pressure but not enough to break off your fingers. Now, with 6 lb mono wrapped around with some pressure for 100 turns, you'd know that the pressure is far, far, greater.
So, if I filled the 4/0 with 100 mono (say 150 to 200 yards), there really won't be nearly as much pressure as if filling it with 40, 50, 60, or 80 lb mono. My concern then, would be whether the other components (I.E., gears, bearings, frame) would withstand the abuse. Quite honestly, I would worry more about whether the spool shaft would bend than the spool sides failing, even if the spool were well-engineered graphite. There won't be that much lateral pressure even when full, but there can be close to 100 lb of bending moment if it runs out of line.
Quote from: Makule on March 03, 2012, 07:05:06 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 03, 2012, 05:06:33 AM
Albert, I'm surprised that you would even ask that question after seeing what you did to that 12/0 one-piece cast spool.
Lest you think me daft (wouldn't be far from the truth, however),is far, far, greater.
Far from it Albert.
I'm taking everything that you're bringing to the table in.
I'm glad that you joined us and enjoying your company.
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 03, 2012, 07:17:02 PM
Quote from: Makule on March 03, 2012, 07:05:06 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 03, 2012, 05:06:33 AM
Albert, I'm surprised that you would even ask that question after seeing what you did to that 12/0 one-piece cast spool.
Lest you think me daft (wouldn't be far from the truth, however),is far, far, greater.
Far from it Albert.
I'm taking everything that you're bringing to the table in.
I'm glad that you joined us and enjoying your company.
Sal
Don't forget. Any advice I give is worth every penny you pay for it.
Here we have my two tanks, one has all the goodies and the other one will soon.
They have double dogs thanks to Sal and company for all the awesome info and pic's. Everything in the narrow one is stainless or will be soon I have no doubt this thing could handle 25 lbs of drag all day if you could hang on Ha Ha :D :D :D :D
Gorgeous reels broschro, very nice ;).
By the way, is that powder coating on those rings? I'm trying to get my rings done.
I like those side plate screws. Are those specialized for the 113h?
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 04, 2012, 01:52:17 AM
Gorgeous reels broschro, very nice ;).
By the way, is that powder coating on those rings? I'm trying to get my rings done.
I just started and I like what I see so far. Sal let me know what you want and we can work out a deal cheek eastwood.com I like the powder they have. Here's some pic's
Quote from: Caranx on March 04, 2012, 02:07:51 AM
I like those side plate screws. Are those specialized for the 113h?
I got those from jvariance when i bought some plates i emailed him and he hooked me up whith a set for cheap.I think you can find these at some hardware stores.
My machinist friend is checking into the possibility of having some 4:1 SS gears cut. Is there any interest in these? If so, what's the price at which it would become unaffordable (no sense pursuing it if it's too costly)?
There may be a way of increasing the braking power using the carbon tex washers, but it will take modification to the sleeve, sleeve post, gears, and an addition of another washer-like piece. Aside from, "Because I just want it", is there any reason not to pursue this? Would anyone be interested in this?
Quote from: Makule on March 06, 2012, 12:26:59 AM
My machinist friend is checking into the possibility of having some 4:1 SS gears cut. Is there any interest in these? If so, what's the price at which it would become unaffordable (no sense pursuing it if it's too costly)?
I know I'm being picky, but can he do helical cuts on those gears?
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 06, 2012, 01:54:13 AM
Quote from: Makule on March 06, 2012, 12:26:59 AM
My machinist friend is checking into the possibility of having some 4:1 SS gears cut. Is there any interest in these? If so, what's the price at which it would become unaffordable (no sense pursuing it if it's too costly)?
I know I'm being picky, but can he do helical cuts on those gears?
As a matter of factoid, the machinist was the one who pointed out that the pinion gear was helical cut. Don't recall if the main gear is also helical cut (don't think so). Anyway, the gears will be cut the same way as the original (unless someone has a better idea).
I can't believe it would be too hard to get gears made, I was going to check out some companies around here, when I went to the phone book, they are all basically in the shadow of one the largest aircraft manufacturers in the world, so right now, I think they're probably too busy to mess with it. For a ball park price 40 to 60 bucks I'd be snapping them up for all my reels, much above that I'd be thinking hard.
Quote from: seaeagle2 on March 06, 2012, 04:51:29 AM
I can't believe it would be too hard to get gears made, I was going to check out some companies around here, when I went to the phone book, they are all basically in the shadow of one the largest aircraft manufacturers in the world, so right now, I think they're probably too busy to mess with it. For a ball park price 40 to 60 bucks I'd be snapping them up for all my reels, much above that I'd be thinking hard.
So, 40 to 60 for the main and pinion together?
Quote from: Makule on March 06, 2012, 04:59:20 AM
Quote from: seaeagle2 on March 06, 2012, 04:51:29 AM
I can't believe it would be too hard to get gears made, I was going to check out some companies around here, when I went to the phone book, they are all basically in the shadow of one the largest aircraft manufacturers in the world, so right now, I think they're probably too busy to mess with it. For a ball park price 40 to 60 bucks I'd be snapping them up for all my reels, much above that I'd be thinking hard.
So, 40 to 60 for the main and pinion together?
i will take a set or two
Quote from: seaeagle2 on March 06, 2012, 04:51:29 AM
I can't believe it would be too hard to get gears made, I was going to check out some companies around here, when I went to the phone book, they are all basically in the shadow of one the largest aircraft manufacturers in the world, so right now, I think they're probably too busy to mess with it. For a ball park price 40 to 60 bucks I'd be snapping them up for all my reels, much above that I'd be thinking hard.
Cutting the gear, per se, is not hard. It's the fussing with it afterwards that raises the cost. The main gear needs to be hollowed out for the brakes to fit, and the teeth removed from about 1/2 of the height (not too bad). The pinion gear needs to be slotted (one narrow slot for the yoke to slide into, and slotted/beveled to fit into the spool drive shaft. It also needs a narrow ring over one end. It's all this other manual stuff that gear manufacturers don't really do on a big scale that increases the cost. If the tooling was all set up to make all the cuts, and the only manual part would be to fit on the ring, then it's fairly inexpensive when making a large quantity. In our case, since we're not talking about large quantities, it's basically like a "one of" production so lots of manual labor involved. Not difficult since even I can do it (if I had the machines).
My attempt to modify my 113HLW is not going well. First, SS dogs needed to have a corner rounded out so as not to bind with the spring. No big deal, just a bit more time/effort (easy). The side plate was "routered" out to accept the second dog but I cut it just a tiny bit too wide. Again, not really a big deal, but being a wannabe machinist, I a bit anal about things like that. Incidentally, the SS that was used to make the dogs is hard stuff.
Second, got a replacement Penn HT100 kit to upgrade the brakes from the three disks to 5 (?) disks. Also put one carbontex disk under the main gear. Didn't have Cal's grease (but will be ordering some from Dawn soon) so a bit of Corrosion-X was applied to each disk. Everything seemed to go together fine, except that the highest the brakes will do is about 15-16 lb (straight pull out of the reel, no rod). I'm assuming that is how you guys are measuring the braking power since different rods will influence the amount of drag differently.
I have four of these reels and this is the first to be modified. The other three reels all deliver about the same maximum drag (between 10 to 13 lbs). It is quite possible that something is not right, but it seems to have been put together correctly. I'm disappointed not to be able to get 25 lb. braking.
Makule I don't think Corrosion-X is good for drags, try to clean them off with carb cleaner and let them dry then install them.If you can't get more drag with them dry you may need to add a spacer washer to increase stack hight to prevent the star from bottoming on the sideplate.
Albert, you should be getting close to 30lb, bottoned down all the way. I actually still had a little left on my drag, but didn't want to put a hole in the wall or myself. You would still fish it under 25lb though, but it does have a little more if needed.
I'm glad you brought up the new dog. Yes, on some plates you need to shave the sharp corner by the spring area, I just do it to all of my dogs. This is an easy fix, I just file it down. Maybe Lee can hit them with the wheel when cleaning them, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem. About cutting the the grove too wide, you need to slow down, you're getting too excited ;D. I'm sure that you will find a way to fix it, there are a few options. Take care, Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 07, 2012, 12:20:48 PM
Maybe Lee can hit them with the wheel when cleaning them, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem.
Yes, the first batch fit my 113H side plate but there must be some variation. Post a drawing or photo of one with where the problem metal is and I'll correct the next batch. A fine file or stone will work for removing small amounts of metal.
Quote from: Keta on March 07, 2012, 02:21:30 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 07, 2012, 12:20:48 PM
Maybe Lee can hit them with the wheel when cleaning them, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem.
Yes, the first batch fit my 113H side plate but there must be some variation. Post a drawing or photo of one with where the problem metal is and I'll correct the next batch. A fine file or stone will work for removing small amounts of metal.
I had to round mine i bit to work they work fine now.
Let me know where. I'll reimburse anyone double what they paid for the first batch of dogs if you are not 100% happy ;D
Quote from: Keta on March 07, 2012, 03:12:52 PM
Let me know where. I'll reimburse anyone double what they paid for the first batch of dogs if you are not 100% happy ;D
hi lee send a pm with Your address over to me so I can get something out to you for the dogs? Also was wondering if you sent three or if one fell out. Thanks Jamie
Run #1 was free, the extra dog was an unfinished one I stuck in for you to see.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/dogIII.jpg)
Quote from: Keta on March 07, 2012, 07:51:40 PM
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/dogIII.jpg)
No! Here Lee.(http://i.imgur.com/YxPTZYu.jpg)
Sorry for the poor image. As Sal states, the area that should be removed is shown below. It's an old brass gear, but you can see the rounded area.
(https://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pOOpF-_xb1HRyJbkm2aFITMwDFW-MxwJXjutDQwjBjIBGReZX1XR2KPaH8-arccYa7VlOnXMOklUzUtTP35xHbw/Dog.jpg?psid=1)
Quote from: Squirmypug on March 07, 2012, 05:11:08 AM
Makule I don't think Corrosion-X is good for drags, try to clean them off with carb cleaner and let them dry then install them.If you can't get more drag with them dry you may need to add a spacer washer to increase stack hight to prevent the star from bottoming on the sideplate.
Yes, that was my next step. I'm sure the star is not bottoming out
Quote from: Alto Mare on March 07, 2012, 09:19:15 PM
Quote from: Keta on March 07, 2012, 07:51:40 PM
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/dogIII.jpg)
No! Here Lee.(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/dogIII.jpg)
same place i grinded
So the drag washers were cleaned, reinstalled, and it went up to 18 lb.
Are you guys pulling through a rod or straight out from the reel?
Sal pulls through the rod... the right way ;)
Dom
Makule,
Just for information I just checked a couple of Penn 113H reels I have with a 5 stack drag and with one reel I got 24 #'s
and the other 28 #'s. This was on a straight pull from the reel. I think with the rod you will get another 2 #'s.
John
Albert, I don't know what type of plate you have. See if this helps:
(http://i.imgur.com/K5C0qbr.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JCJK3RW.jpg)
I would also use additional belleville above or below the star if needed. Sal
The last keyed washer on the left side stack is a cupped washer.
John,
A straight pull is not an accurate measure of drag pressure.... you need a bend in the rod like you would when you're fishing it.
...and 24 and 28 lbs. are big numbers... did you do the Sal modification and all the other upgrades we commonly do?
Dom
Hello Dom,
I agree they are big numbers, I would not fish these reels at these levels. I was just checking to see what they would get. Both have the five stack drag and one reel has the double dog. Also, I agree for a more accurate reading you would want to check pulling on a rod. But for "ball park" numbers I always check on a straight pull and add a couple of #'s. It is much faster and easier on my old back. I guess that number could change depending on the rod the reel is on.
John
Holy crap! I'm buying ballard stock right now.
I hear ya, John... I don't like holding the 20lb. pail on a rod either, that's why I get a crew mate to do it ;)
Dom
Thanks to everyone. It's working as it should now. Turns out the stack was not properly sequenced. Embarrassing amateur mistake, but one that got address with a little thought (sometimes it pays to think a bit). The reel pulls just about 30 lbs straight out, pretty much maxed out.
My attempt. Haven't done the second dog yet, but it has ss sleeve, ss yoke, some sort of steel gears, Tib frame and Jvariance plates. I kept the 3.25 gears because I plan on using this for deep droping, amberjack (80-100 lb yellowtails for you west coast guys) and big grouper.
Some truly beautiful reels on this Forum, and many don't just have the bling, they also have the beef.
Bling, Bling. What is that reel in the center of the 3 on the top of the picture?
Update on the gears: The machinist said his source could/would not cut it. Too small. Will try some other sources.
Anyone got connections in Taiwan (not China) or Korea? They can make high quality stuff with good materials, at reasonable prices.
Quote from: Bryan Young on March 10, 2012, 01:14:56 AM
Bling, Bling. What is that reel in the center of the 3 on the top of the picture?
X2
Nice work.
Where do you fish for reef donkeys out of? There are AJs in Baja but I think there is some differances from the ones I saw in the GOM. Tellowtail is a diferent jack.
Quote from: Keta on March 10, 2012, 02:49:23 AM
Quote from: Bryan Young on March 10, 2012, 01:14:56 AM
Bling, Bling. What is that reel in the center of the 3 on the top of the picture?
X2
Nice work.
Where do you fish for reef donkeys out of? There are AJs in Baja but I think there is some differances from the ones I saw in the GOM. Tellowtail is a diferent jack.
Galveston, Freeport, and Port A. Mostly rig fishing for AJ's. I know that yellowtail and AJ's are different (1st cousins?) but that was the best way I knew to describe what I was fishing for for the left Coasters.
The reel in the center top of the picture is a Tom Hyrniuk conversion of a Jigmaster I bought on ebay. See here for a similar conversion of a Squidder: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=184.0 The one on the left is a 506 with an Accurate frame and the one on the right is a Charter Special with a topless frame I got from Alan. Just part of the collection.
Thanks for the info on the reel, can you post better photos of it?
We pulled a boat from Oregon and spent a month camped in the parking area in Venice, LA the year after Katrina and had a blast fishing the rigs and Midnight Lump.
http://www.reellouisianaadventures.com/details.php?id=410
Great story Lee - cheers for the link.
The photo gallery is epic.
That's a cracker selection of reels dayOne - the Hyrniuk Jigmaster is a beauty.
x2 on the request for more pics! ;)
All the best, Justin
Got the goody bag from Alan today so my reels are ready to get "Tanked".
The first order of business will be to change the brake disks to carbontex with Cal's grease;
Second will be to clean the BB and then lube with TSI301;
Third, (hopefully) will be to install SS double dogs (Lee, I could use 6 more whenever they are ready).
Aftermarket frames. Do they increase, decrease, or keep the overall weight the same?
Aftermarket handles. I like the aluminum ones because they are very light, but does anyone know whether they will stand up to hard cranking and not have the mounting hole distort?
Been wondering about whether I need the SS gear sleeve. If the handle is stainless, then the sleeve will be stainless.
SS yoke. Definitely, even if I may not have SS gears (don't know what's inside yet).
One small change I'll also make is to change those straight slot screws to either phillips or hex wrench 8-32. Those straight slot screws drive me nuts. The hex wrench type are great even though they stick out.
Did I forget something?
Sal made me do it.
Aloha Bradah Makule,
Frames - the answer is it depends on the reel you have and what's on it. My 6/0 reels have Penn's aluminum frame, so switching to an Accurate frame is actually a little lighter. It is better to resist twisting at higher drag levels.
Handles - Aluminum will do fine.
Arms - Alumimum is fine, but Brass or Stainless is much better esp. at higher drag ranges. I'm worked on many reels with aluminum handles that are bent. And, we've had to peen the hole to make it tighter on the gear sleeve. You will not have the same effect with Stainless as a whole.
Screws, if you are changing, I would recommend torx instead of hex. I've also had issues with the stainless screws being made of softer stainless rounding easier than phillips heads even though the wrench fits perfectly without any wiggle. never a problem with Torx.
Have fun with the conversion.
Awe, crap, I forgot to send my Pro Gear home to see if my buddy would machine my Pro Gear 441 so that I can put in double dogs...and I'm already at the airport for my back to back trip. Arg!
Quote from: Bryan Young on March 11, 2012, 07:08:00 AM
Aloha Bradah Makule,
Frames - the answer is it depends on the reel you have and what's on it. My 6/0 reels have Penn's aluminum frame, so switching to an Accurate frame is actually a little lighter. It is better to resist twisting at higher drag levels.
Handles - Aluminum will do fine.
Arms - Alumimum is fine, but Brass or Stainless is much better esp. at higher drag ranges. I'm worked on many reels with aluminum handles that are bent. And, we've had to peen the hole to make it tighter on the gear sleeve. You will not have the same effect with Stainless as a whole.
Screws, if you are changing, I would recommend torx instead of hex. I've also had issues with the stainless screws being made of softer stainless rounding easier than phillips heads even though the wrench fits perfectly without any wiggle. never a problem with Torx.
Have fun with the conversion.
Awe, crap, I forgot to send my Pro Gear home to see if my buddy would machine my Pro Gear 441 so that I can put in double dogs...and I'm already at the airport for my back to back trip. Arg!
The reels are 113HLW.
I'm supposed to be hearing from Jvariance about the availability of frames for the HLW).
Will try aluminum arms/handles first to see if they are strong enough for my use.
Add torx screws (couldn't find the SS torx at the local hardware store).
Try this guy for S.S.handles, He has an assortment to fit the 113h series of reels. I like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-C-M-HANDLE-FIT-PENN-REEL-SENATOR-113H-4-0-113HL-113HLW-113HSP-349-H-/120854370481?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c237b58b1
Aluminum is OK and I have an assorment of reels with aluminum handles, but for heavy cranking, S>S> or brass is superior. Even the Penn 24-349H is a good handle. Go here for the various Penn handles that fit a 113h:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Handles/TypeB.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Handles/TypeB.aspx)
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Quote from: redsetta on March 10, 2012, 11:38:55 PM
That's a cracker selection of reels dayOne - the Hyrniuk Jigmaster is a beauty.
x2 on the request for more pics! ;)
All the best, Justin
They moved my pictures to their own thread It's here:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3793.0
Quote from: day0ne on March 11, 2012, 08:24:51 AM
Try this guy for S.S.handles, He has an assortment to fit the 113h series of reels. I like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-C-M-HANDLE-FIT-PENN-REEL-SENATOR-113H-4-0-113HL-113HLW-113HSP-349-H-/120854370481?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c237b58b1
Aluminum is OK and I have an assorment of reels with aluminum handles, but for heavy cranking, S>S> or brass is superior. Even the Penn 24-349H is a good handle. Go here for the various Penn handles that fit a 113h:
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Handles/TypeB.aspx (https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Handles/TypeB.aspx)
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
Yes, Sal suggested I check with that seller.
Who would i have to contact to get a couple of those SS dogs?
Contact Keta for the SS dogs.
ShoreKasterHI,
For the Stainless Gear Sleeve for 113H, 5O7S in Honolulu has one.
Bryan
Just as a followup, Jeff at Jvariance advised me that the frame for the 113HLW is not yet available, but is being worked on. He said it's a "work in progress".
Don't get your hopes up Albert. Jeff is a nice guy, but approximately 3 years ago I asked him if he was going to offer kits for the 6/0, he told me that it was in progress but I still haven't seen anything. If you need the wide frame check with reelygone.com, the new Tiburon frame is awesome and I'm sure That he will give you a discount. There is also no need for inner rings with trhe new frame.
You can also check here with Bryan, he might have some left.
I'm not counting on the Jvariance kits. Just thought I'd let guys know what Jeff said.
He did send me a frame and side plate kit for the narrow 113H and it was fine. It's too small for me, but a friend wanted it. I just put up a 113H with Jvariance full kit on ebay yesterday.
Thank you all for these great post. Here is a small twist on the nippled dog spring placement.
I heat colored the screws and plated brass to match the motor oil colored frame kit i purchased from Jvariance.
That's a cool spin on the double dog situation. What tools did you use to achieve such pristine results with the dog and the side plate?... nicely done!
Also, how does one heat treat screws and brass parts properly to not lose their strength, shape, and to still get the right color. Is it a crap shoot on the color or is it a calculated ordeal?
Thanks,
Dom
Nice work spirit - looks like some delicate dremelling you've done there.
Well done and thanks for sharing.
Cheers, Justin
Wow! nice work Spirit. Would you mind sharing how you did it? It doesn't look like a freehand job. Thanks for sharing. Sal
very nice work!
Quote from: broadway on June 06, 2012, 06:25:30 PM
That's a cool spin on the double dog situation. What tools did you use to achieve such pristine results with the dog and the side plate?... nicely done!
Also, how does one heat treat screws and brass parts properly to not lose their strength, shape, and to still get the right color. Is it a crap shoot on the color or is it a calculated ordeal?
Thanks,
Dom
Here is a list of the tools I used. I have a foredom flex shaft tool. This is very good for small work. As for tool tips I use the Dremel #199 high speed cutter, #428 carbon steel brush, #426 reinforced cut-off wheel and a small file.
As for heat coloring the screws I dont let them reach a high enough tepature to change the temper. (turn red). I hold the screw closer to the tip of the torch flame allowing it to turn that brown-golden color.
Thanks for sharing Spirt. Cheap cordless dremels are worthless, It pays to buy good tools from the start. Looks like I'll be purchasing a Foredom. Can't really afford it at the moment, but what a heck...life 's too short. You must be a machinist, that job is too neat :-\
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 08, 2012, 11:50:51 AM
Thanks for sharing Spirt. Cheap cordless dremels are worthless, It pays to buy good tools from the start. Looks like I'll be purchasing a Foredom. Can't really afford it at the moment, but what a heck...life 's too short. You must be a machinist, that job is too neat :-\
Shop for one on ebay. you can find great deals!
Just checked ebay, yes I do see lots of good deals.
Maybe we should contact Jeff at JVariance and see if he could upgrade the program, I'm sure it's just a matter of pushing some buttons on the keyboard.
Since you did such a fine job, maybe you could send him your plate so he could get an idea of what we're talking about.
Thank you! Sal
i'll bet he would be happy to incorporate a "double dog" into his design. that is a great idea! ;D
Spirt10, wow, that nice work
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 10, 2012, 11:26:14 AM
Just checked ebay, yes I do see lots of good deals.
Maybe we should contact Jeff at JVariance and see if he could upgrade the program, I'm sure it's just a matter of pushing some buttons on the keyboard.
Since you did such a fine job, maybe you could send him your plate so he could get an idea of what we're talking about.
Thank you! Sal
Done, Here is a copy of the email.
Duane Horton
to JVARIANCE
There is a great thread of posts about upgrading the 113H at http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3083.0 I am using your frame and adding another dog along with many other upgrades. Here are a few pics. Builders and myself on this site were wondering if you might include an improved version of this when manufacturing your side plates.
thanks
Very nice Duane, thank you!
Lets hope that Jeff realizes what he has here, this could be a great thing for him and us as well.
I wanna give a thanks Alto for the inspiration to do this, Keta for the ss dogs and Alan for the great site. Here is a few pics of my extended "TANK".
Specs:
SS dog *Need to invest in a grinder to put in the 2nd dog*
SS gear sleeve
SS Yoke
Accurate gears
Tiburon frame
Carbon drag under main gear from Smoooth Drag
I may upgrade the handle but not sure about it yet.
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5528/img0124sl.jpg)
(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/7820/img0123o.jpg)
Great looking reel ShoreKaster, nice to see you going for it. Sal
Great work SK.
Another 'Tank' joins the division. ;D
Cheers for sharing the pics, Justin
reel is looking great sk, black handle has got to go. give it the full business and a red t-bar or silver. bling more bling. i dont mean crosby.
Thanks! I was thinking about a silver spool and looking at it now it couls use a handle upgrade. BTW do they even make wide spools that come in silver?
I should of posted this in the photo gallery...Sorry for the thread jack :(
O.K. this is a little off the double dog inovation but addresses the tank idea! after doing all the upgrades. I added one of the K.O. customs handles. Last night I landed a nice Hammer and after the first hour the grip part starded wabeling off the arm. The further into the fight the worse it got until it fell off. I spent the last half hour palming the arm of the setup to land the fish. Intersting but not recomended. My conclusion is the K.O.Kustomz handles do not belong on a TANK or on any reel intended to catch anything larger than a pinfish.
Yikes! ...A wobbly handle and a hammerhead, sounds less than fun! I've had KO's on my wire lining gear for 3 years now and no problems, but I'll keep an eye on it.
Glad ya landed her... how big was she?
Thanks
Dom
Quote from: spirt10 on June 12, 2012, 12:28:01 PM
Last night I landed a nice Hammer and after the first hour the grip part starded wabeling off the arm.
Did the handle screw back out or was there dammage to the arm/handle? If the screw backed out a low strength thread locker (blue Locktite 242 is what I have) will end the problem.
Quote from: spirt10 on June 12, 2012, 12:28:01 PM
O.K. this is a little off the double dog inovation but addresses the tank idea! after doing all the upgrades. I added one of the K.O. customs handles. Last night I landed a nice Hammer and after the first hour the grip part starded wabeling off the arm. The further into the fight the worse it got until it fell off. I spent the last half hour palming the arm of the setup to land the fish. Intersting but not recomended. My conclusion is the K.O.Kustomz handles do not belong on a TANK or on any reel intended to catch anything larger than a pinfish.
Had the same thing happen. Locktite, as Lee mentioned.
Quote from: spirt10 on June 12, 2012, 12:28:01 PM
O.K. this is a little off the double dog inovation but addresses the tank idea! after doing all the upgrades. I added one of the K.O. customs handles. Last night I landed a nice Hammer and after the first hour the grip part starded wabeling off the arm. The further into the fight the worse it got until it fell off. I spent the last half hour palming the arm of the setup to land the fish. Intersting but not recomended. My conclusion is the K.O.Kustomz handles do not belong on a TANK or on any reel intended to catch anything larger than a pinfish.
Did the threads get stripped? If the handle just got lose it's not that bad, it happened to me a few times. I usually don't like to use locktite on my reels, but the handle i don't mind. The Tank does need a ss handle though, I did mention this here.
Quote from: Makule on June 12, 2012, 06:01:34 PM
Quote from: spirt10 on June 12, 2012, 12:28:01 PM
O.K. this is a little off the double dog inovation but addresses the tank idea! after doing all the upgrades. I added one of the K.O. customs handles. Last night I landed a nice Hammer and after the first hour the grip part starded wabeling off the arm. The further into the fight the worse it got until it fell off. I spent the last half hour palming the arm of the setup to land the fish. Intersting but not recomended. My conclusion is the K.O.Kustomz handles do not belong on a TANK or on any reel intended to catch anything larger than a pinfish.
Had the same thing happen. Locktite, as Lee mentioned.
The threads are trashed. I purchased two, one for each reel I have TANKED! I think JB weld will be applied to the secound one. I am looking foward to getting home to the work bench and investagating how these things are put together. Last night in the dark it appeared the grip axel was pressed in?
The hammer was eight and change. Not that big but I am pleased that was my first hammer. Now look out Tiger!
Quote from: spirt10 on June 12, 2012, 08:08:25 PM
Quote from: Makule on June 12, 2012, 06:01:34 PM
Quote from: spirt10 on June 12, 2012, 12:28:01 PM
O.K. this is a little off the double dog inovation but addresses the tank idea! after doing all the upgrades. I added one of the K.O. customs handles. Last night I landed a nice Hammer and after the first hour the grip part starded wabeling off the arm. The further into the fight the worse it got until it fell off. I spent the last half hour palming the arm of the setup to land the fish. Intersting but not recomended. My conclusion is the K.O.Kustomz handles do not belong on a TANK or on any reel intended to catch anything larger than a pinfish.
Had the same thing happen. Locktite, as Lee mentioned.
I beleave this problem might be fixed by using a left hand threaded axal bolt.
The threads are trashed. I purchased two, one for each reel I have TANKED! I think JB weld will be applied to the secound one. I am looking foward to getting home to the work bench and investagating how these things are put together. Last night in the dark it appeared the grip axel was pressed in?
The hammer was eight and change. Not that big but I am pleased that was my first hammer. Now look out Tiger!
I wouldn't waste my time, there are lots of good handles out there. Alan might be able to set you up with a nice one ;).
if you decide to glue, try Tamiya threadlock. my friends and i used this for our off-road radio controlled "toys" because it heldup and was easy to remove the screws for post inspection later.
Right on Bradah. Thats the way we do it.
I never thought that this post would have 10.000 hits :o
Alan, do I win a price ;D....Don't compare it to yours, we won't even get close ;D
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 15, 2012, 04:40:01 PM
I never thought that this post would have 10.000 hits :o
Alan, do I win a price ;D....Don't compare it to yours, we won't even get close ;D
In anticipation of this, we allowed you to become Moderator for the additional joy and satisfaction that you get for helping other. Besides, if we subtract how many times you have logged in to this thread, the hits would be 2000. We all know how satisfied you are looking at your awesomeness creation.
Alto Mare and your beautiful TANK have led me down the darkest path. Halelujah
Bryan, if I was checking in everyday it would only be 365, we're talking 10,000 ;D. I do check often, not to see what I did, just curious on who's interested. You know, there are a couple of guys here that have never made a comment on the upgrades from me Justin and others, they know who they are. I'm wondering if they think it's silly. About the 10'000 hits, you already know I was just joking. Yes being a moderator is a good thing to me, thanks again for asking me, I appreciate it. Sal
Quote from: Jerseymic on June 15, 2012, 08:06:54 PM
Alto Mare and your beautiful TANK have led me down the darkest path. Halelujah
x2, my main man Sal has created a monster......Dan
Sal, you are a great man, and we are priviledged to have you as a moderator.
I wonder if people think this is silly, and if so, would also glad to hear from you as well with constructive feedback, data, etc. supporting your position.
Quote from: suitekids on June 15, 2012, 09:37:09 PM
Quote from: Jerseymic on June 15, 2012, 08:06:54 PM
Alto Mare and your beautiful TANK have led me down the darkest path. Halelujah
x2, my main man Sal has created a monster......Dan
Glad to hear you guys are having fun ;D
HMMMM.......silly, I would guess I spent 800 bucks in the past month being silly, so I guess I'm as silly as my buddy Sal
Quote from: Bryan Young on June 15, 2012, 09:53:19 PM
Sal, you are a great man, and we are priviledged to have you as a moderator.
I wonder if people think this is silly, and if so, would also glad to hear from you as well with constructive feedback, data, etc. supporting your position.
Bryan, everything is cool, i don't have any enemies ;) Sal
Sal, I'm only saying that out of the 10K visitors to this post, statistically, there has to be at least 1 that think we are nuts
And by the way, I too have an almost tanked reel but it's a 114HL (6/0) reels awaiting an affordable Newell or Accurate SS gear. Reel currently has SS gear sleeve, double alternating SS dogs, and an Accurate frame. Okay, handle and arm are still stock, but planning to put a Kolekar 6/0 handle on. Still would live 7+1 drag system, not for more drag, but for added smoothness if that is possible.
Bryan,I believe that the 1+7 is very possible...thanks to George. I contacted Dawn and asked her for some .5mm washers but she explained that it would be too costly to set up the cutters. So, if we could get a bunch of guys going in with us, it might be possible :-\.
oh boy, here we go again, I'm in :o
Oh no! The Miss's isn't going to be to happy lol but im in ;D.
I think I might have contributed a "few" hits myself to this topic... I'm amazed how simple you make it look, Sal/Justin/and many others 8) ...not to mention the functionality!
PS- Make it 10,001 ;)
Dom
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 15, 2012, 10:28:55 PM
Bryan,I believe that the 1+7 is very possible...thanks to George. I contacted Dawn and asked her for some .5mm washers but she explained that it would be too costly to set up the cutters. So, if we could get a bunch of guys going in with us, it might be possible :-\.
Yes, I have been mulling over the 1+7 drag thing on the 114H, as well. My preliminary measurements show that it will work with the stock metal washers and .5mm thick carbontex washers at approximately 29.718mm diameter. Sal, you meant .5mm carbontex and not .5mm metal washers, correct? Anyway, Dawn doesn't have any carbontex with those measurements, so one option is to take her #59 carbontex washers, reduce the outer diameter, and enlarge the hole. That is, if she isn't able to custom cut some carbontex to the right size for us.
The keyed metals are 1.70mm thick and the eared metals are 1.117mm thick (at least my samples are). So, another option is to take her #46 carbontex (measurements are .76mm thick x 29mm diameter) and open up the hole as necessary. Then have some keyed metals made up to the same thickness as the eared washers (1.117mm) and everything should fit. The third eared washer will sit flush in the top of the main gear.
Does this make any sense? Someone might want to double check my measurements, as I've had a few beers. ;D
George
3am, second scotch. unwinding after a 12 hour shift at the hospital. you're on your own! ;D
You might want to try some chamomile at that time of night boss ;) ;D
Quote from: George4741 on June 16, 2012, 07:40:02 AM
Sal, you meant .5mm carbontex and not .5mm metal washers, correct?
Someone might want to double check my measurements, as I've had a few beers. ;D
George
Yes George I meant .5mm carbontex washers.
Keep drinking those beers, I'm liking your ideas ;).
I should mention that the cavity (cavity?) in my 114H main gear is 12.446mm deep.
I just woke up and feel fresh, so I'll double check my figures. Then, I will put in an order to Dawn for seven #59 carbontex washers. And since this topic subject is supposed to be about "Penn 113h Reel/Tank", I'll also order seven #39 carbontex for my 113H. ;D
I might as well plug my original topic here that led up to this.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=4333.msg32818#msg32818
Quote from: Bryan Young on June 15, 2012, 10:21:32 PM
Sal, I'm only saying that out of the 10K visitors to this post, statistically, there has to be at least 1 that think we are nuts
Nah, it's more than one. ;) Otto Heinz would be proud, though.
Quote from: George4741 on June 16, 2012, 01:56:08 PM
I should mention that the cavity (cavity?) in my 114H main gear is 12.446mm deep.
I just woke up and feel fresh, so I'll double check my figures. Then, I will put in an order to Dawn for seven #59 carbontex washers. And since this topic subject is supposed to be about "Penn 113h Reel/Tank", I'll also order seven #39 carbontex for my 113H. ;D
I might as well plug my original topic here that led up to this.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=4333.msg32818#msg32818
Quote from: Bryan Young on June 15, 2012, 10:21:32 PM
Sal, I'm only saying that out of the 10K visitors to this post, statistically, there has to be at least 1 that think we are nuts
Nah, it's more than one. ;)
Interesting, I just measured my stock gear 114h cavity, it's 11.44mm, and the depth on my Accurate 6/0 gear 11.26mm
Alrightee, an update on my measurements (I'm thinking clearly, now ;))
my 114H main gear is 11.557mm deep
eared metal washers are 1.143mm thick
keyed metals are 1.676mm thick
carbontex are .5mm thick
According to my calculations, a 1+7 drag stack is possible an a 114H.
Dan, I'll bet if you check the opposite side you'll get a different reading ;D
My measurements are close to yours, around 11.40mm for the accurate and the same for penn. Yes I do have the accurate main gear, I was so desperate that I just purchased it...no pinion :'(.
I believe George had one too many last night ;D, or our calipers need to be calibrated :-\
By the way, I just checked my 16/0 main gear and it's exactly double. Hey, we could do a "Super Tank" with 1+14 ;D.
The possibilities are endless ;).
lol, a 14 disc drag pack, wow!! I guess I better make a jig to alter the the carbontex, the wheel are turning already ???
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 11, 2012, 08:28:12 PM
Very nice Duane, thank you!
Lets hope that Jeff realizes what he has here, this could be a great thing for him and us as well.
I recieved an email from Jeff today concerning adding the double dog mod to his next run of frames. Here is his reply. Sounds promising.
JVARIANCE
Hi Duane,
Pretty cool mod.
The side plates are currently machined to work with left handed models. However, demand for lh models are very small and may just add it to the next Gen kits. I will look into it.
Sorry for the late reply and thanks for the suggestion!
That would be sweet... look out tiburon! ;)
Quote from: spirt10 on June 19, 2012, 08:38:30 AM
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 11, 2012, 08:28:12 PM
Very nice Duane, thank you!
Lets hope that Jeff realizes what he has here, this could be a great thing for him and us as well.
I recieved an email from Jeff today concerning adding the double dog mod to his next run of frames. Here is his reply. Sounds promising.
JVARIANCE
Hi Duane,
Pretty cool mod.
The side plates are currently machined to work with left handed models. However, demand for lh models are very small and may just add it to the next Gen kits. I will look into it.
Sorry for the late reply and thanks for the suggestion!
If that's the case I'll be unloading a couple of sets of shmick red and gold anodized Accuframes..... ;) ;D
Cool deal.
Really great product........someday ::)
Whoops, meant Accuplates. My bad... ;)
i cant look at this much longer...usually how much the frame cost?? ;D
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture1730.jpg)
easy, danhans.... breathe..... good, now slowly back away from the fishing reel. that's it, one step at a time. you can do it! ;D
;D ;D i am actually in my final semester of my degree..just finished my final year project..
i have lots of time but not much money left to spend..
i need to get a part time job at mcdonalds now... ;D
Quote from: Danhans on June 26, 2012, 05:54:28 AM
i cant look at this much longer...usually how much the frame cost?? ;D
The frame and spool for my 113HN Tank cost me $133.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1524.0 (http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1524.0)
Quote from: Keta on June 26, 2012, 12:14:30 PM
The frame and spool for my 113HN Tank cost me $133.
ohh boy..that's about RM 425 :'(
thanks Lee..
Just an update: My reel now has double dogs, upgraded drag, 4:1 gears, and aftermarket handle. Used it for the first time this weekend and was very pleased. Took a few fish, none of them strong enough to pull out the 20 lb. of drag. Bringing them in was very easy and fast. This is definitely one of the best reels I've used. The addition of SS sleeve should about complete the upgrades.
One thing that did bother me a bit was that after having the reel sitting overnight with the drag tight, it was looser in the morning. Don't think I was stronger when I woke up, but maybe the grease squeezed out. Was able to tighten it up again, but hope it won't be a chronic issue.
I also now have two 6/0 and will soon have two 349s. Of course, all will be modified to increase braking capacity. I may have to seriously consider retiring those 9/0s that I have.
Albert, you may want to tighten up the drags to 15#ish and tie your line to your bumper and ask your wife to pull away slowly for 50 yards. That should push out the excess grease and seat the drags, like setting your car breaks.
Quote from: Bryan Young on June 27, 2012, 05:39:49 AM
Albert, you may want to tighten up the drags to 15#ish and tie your line to your bumper and ask your wife to pull away slowly for 50 yards. That should push out the excess grease and seat the drags, like setting your car breaks.
You're suggesting I trust my wife's driving with my (now favorite) reel. Yes, I understand you are not aware of how my wife drives. Think I'll just let the fish do the seating for me. Will be more fun.
I've been known to tie off to one of my kids and send them screaming down the block to test the drags...or maybe not...depends if CPS is reading this blog or not ;D
Quote from: TARFU on July 07, 2012, 12:58:32 AM
I've been known to tie off to one of my kids and send them screaming down the block to test the drags...or maybe not...depends if CPS is reading this blog or not ;D
I don't have any kids (that I know of), nor dog, or other "convenient" source of pull, so I'll just stick with some fish.
The very thin CF washers used to put together the 1+7 set is a bit tricky since the slots in the main gear don't go all the way down. As mentioned elsewhere, I've addressed this by grinding the slots deeper so that they go all the way down the bored section. Doesn't need to go quite that far, but easier to do that that than to try to get it just right (and there's no advantage anyway). Shown below is an image of the ground slot. Used the Dremel with a 1/8" carbide cutter.
(https://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pNaHkPG4uBS4R4RlFjLvJ5QqPeJiqPWSCzuaTJWRSYxhyvg4BAW2u6YkloRE2YiXpCFC4j11OwwWeE1ClUXA8MQ/Gear.jpg?psid=1)
Thanks for the additional guidance Albert.
Quote from: Makule on July 09, 2012, 06:46:57 AM
The very thin CF washers used to put together the 1+7 set is a bit tricky since the slots in the main gear don't go all the way down. As mentioned elsewhere, I've addressed this by grinding the slots deeper so that they go all the way down the bored section.
I don't have a problem with the slots being deep enough in the stock Penn bronze gear. I wouldn't want to push it very hard, either, for fear it will shred. :o
This is good stuff, though. We run into a problem and someone comes up with a fix.
Way to go Albert, a nice way to solve that problem. BTW they're not my gears that you just messed up ;D.
Keep them coming buddy.
Quote from: Alto Mare on July 09, 2012, 04:30:39 PM
Way to go Albert, a nice way to solve that problem. BTW they're not my gears that you just messed up ;D.
Keep them coming buddy.
As you can see from the pitting, the gear is from an old set. Since this was a practice run, I'm now doing all of the others, including for the 6/0 and 349.
Finally "Tanked" my first reel. It already had a s/s gear sleeve so I double-dogged it with s/s dogs (thanks, Lee :)). The reel, a 113HL has an ambidextrous handle-side side-plate so I used a 114H flat spring. Now I just need to test it on the water. ;D
Thanks, Sal. It was easier than I thought. :)
Nice work Rob - will look forward to hearing how it performs. ;)
Way to go Rob, I'm glad that you finally got to it ;).
from steve carson!
Quote from: tunanorth;2849795Ha-ha, "Tanks" are cool reels! [essentially a double-dog YTS w/all stainless internals]
Huge amounts of "personality", and when you have one, it's "yours".
However, they take a bunch of work, require good online detective/acquisition skills for semi-custom parts, and everything together usually costs substantially more than a Baja Special.
For do-it-yourselfers, they are a great offseason project, but for folks who just want to head out and fish, it can be a bit too much effort.
Also, a Tank does not have the "disconnecting pinion", so for castability, [and fishing techniques that need it], the Baja Special also has an edge.
I'm guessing there are not more than a few dozen Tanks in use worldwide, so its a pretty unique item.
you realize, of course, that this means that "the tank" is now officially recognized by penn. sal, congratulations! :o ;D
Well done Sal and well earned - both for the recognition and the 22-page thread ;) ;D
Congrats mate, Justin
You know the 4/0 was never in the picture, when I did this it was on the 6/0. I believe that Dom asked if it could be done on other Senators.
I wasn't aware who Steve Carson was, I've been reading a lot about him lately.
Penn is lucky to have him.
Sal
Well done Sal, or should it be Sal Henze? ;)
Yes well done now my wife is asking why I need to go to the parts shop to work on my reels again.At least she understands and even went with me.
I think this recognition is great. Sal should be rightly proud.
X2 on what George said!
Since you've been on here you've had some great ideas, advice, and been more than generous and helpful to us regulars and newbies alike. Steve must be good at what he does to find out about the "tanks", and you must be good at what you do to catch his attention.
Well done Sal,
Dom
Well, I hate to tell you guys, but I believe that the "Tank" got noticed from my reply to a post on BD.
They had a survey there about the Baja vs YTS, I don't do much activities there, but I couldn't help myself. I replied that my Tank could outfish the Baja.
And that's how we got noticed. By the way, I do believe that the Tank can outfish the Baja ;D
Sal
PS, the reply from Mr. Carson was nice though ;)
"I'm guessing there are not more than a few dozen Tanks in use worldwide, so its a pretty unique item.", That's the part I like, I'm always in for something a little different than everybody else. I've got two that are "half tracks" cause I did everything but the double dog. I butchered one side plate, then saw that Jvariance is going to make his next run of side plates double dog compatible so I'm just going to wait for those to come out.
Cangrats sal , well deserved recognition mate!
Thanks Harry...just a grain of sand in a full wheelbarrow, compared to some of the guys around here.
Sal
x3 on what george posted, a well deserved recogniton Sal... :)
well done Sal..you deserved a medal! ;D
Hey guys,
Thanks to Sal for the inspiration.
Question: Has anyone tried making their second dog shorter to reduce the back play? In all the mods I've seen so far the dogs are the identical length and both essentially engage at the same time. I would be interested in a system where they engaged seperately (ie instead of ....click............click...........click as you turn the handle you get a ...click...click...click...click...click...click) with less back play as I find the amount the stock 113H has an annoying amount of backplay before the dog engages.
Thx in advance for all replies.
what we should be doing is changing the "star" at the base of the gear sleeve and maybe even make it a little larger so that the pressure against the dog is less.
I've been thinking the same thing, Alan. Their is a thread on here with a Penn spinner ratchet with twice as many teeth, I think something should be able to be done on the conventional reels.
Ron
Stupid question !!!! doesnt the stainless steal affect the weight and balance of reel ?
Stainless is all good ;) ;D
Quote from: redsetta on September 21, 2012, 08:08:48 AM
Stainless is all good ;) ;D
x2
Stainless steel is lighter than brass so it's a win-win situation, stronger parts,lighter reel and less angler fatigue. ;)
Sal, well deserved acknowledgement for your efforts and thanx. I think there are more than a few dozen "tanks" (or will be) thanx to this post by you (add 3 more for my tanks). So Sal; what you gonna do about your tank out fishing the Baja Special? :o As Spanky and the gang from the old series "The Little Rascals" would say: "you know THIS MEANS WAR :o!!!!!!!! Nothing like stirring-up a little friendly competition and Ive kept up with this entire post and you have stated adimently that your tank will kick the Baja Specials butt ;D. Wel Sal, I believe and have FAITH in your TANK and look forward to this SHOWDOWN at twelve noon on Main street in front of the saloon with all the townies split on two sides (Tanks vs Baja Specials). Dont forget Sal; the "dancing girls" from the saloon who just "love the winner" ;D
Seiriously Sal, I for one would love a shoot-out between the two reels. I must agree with Steve Carson from Penn in regards to the cost to build a Tank. If it wasnt for me purchasing and converting my 113HN's with gears, frame, spool back in the early 80's prior to my first Long Range trips I would opt for the Baja Special today due to price. HOWEVER, Ive got these old-school 113HN's and Im loving tinkering with them and the cost is marginal to upgrade them to TANK status as opposed to buying a new Baja Special. Now on to the 7+1 drag upgrade for mine.
BTW. a SS gear with more teeth for the double dogs would be EXCELLENT so lets "do this." At the rate were going with this TANK project we will soon be reaching the maximum for structural integrity of the frame and internal parts. So I ask the question: What do you think is the structural max for this reel? Ive been thinking of adding a second dog to my Daiwa 600H via adding a second post to the plate and another dog plus the 7+1 drag stack.
Thanx,
Leo
the next logical step would be a set of hardened stainless steel high speed gears.
Given that we are maxing out these babies to be all they can be....
Question: I have been looking at the spacing sleeves (#9-113h) and wonder if it could be replaced by a needle bearing that is 0.500 x 0.6875 x 0.3125 ??? http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-inventory/Needle-Bearings/1036/0-5x0-6875x0-3125-SCE85
This is inspired by the bearing that supports the handle in the Baja Special.
On my old reel, there is quite a bit of clearance from the spacing sleeve to the side plate and wonder if one of these might be a good choice to bring it flush to the housing and prevent flex of the gear sleeve at the handle and seal the reel better??
Your thoughts gurus???
best
Quote from: alantani on September 21, 2012, 06:10:52 AM
what we should be doing is changing the "star" at the base of the gear sleeve and maybe even make it a little larger so that the pressure against the dog is less.
yea, I noticed that the Baja Special has a "finer" tooth to reduce back play.
Ah yes, the Penn YTS 4/0 vs. Baja at Bloody Deck...
I don't have a lot of activity on their site but I felt the need to stir things up a bit. You know, got my back up a bit when one of my favorite reels was getting bashed. I was careful not to get too confrontational as Steve Carson is a wonderful person. Besides, it would be like me trying to prove that Alan is wrong about something here...of course, we all know what a tall feat that would be...not that I would ever try!
I do believe that the reel, as you see it now, could handle 25 lb. with the potential to push it a little farther. I know that Alan could bring us an upgraded sleeve and SS gears, but he just might not want us to kick the Baja's butt all the way!
Thanks, Leo! I am glad that you are enjoying it!
Sal
Sal, dont get shy now! Lets have a shoot-out between the two reels. BTW, I think it was Justin/Redsetta who came up with a finer-toothed star for a Penn spinner. Maybe he can do the same for the TANK, it should cost similar WHY NOT? If Jarvance is going to incorporate double dogs maybe he has a fine-toothed star that may work in the Penn 113H?
By the time we finish this TANK project we'll need to make sure these go to someone who will appreciate whats inside these reels when we die. :o
Leo
QuoteI know that Alan could bring us an upgraded sleeve and SS gears, but he just might not want us to kick the Baja's butt all the way!
Why not? That is the way progress is achieved in industry. Someone produces a good product, hobbyists fiddle around with it and make it better, then the manufacturer adopts it into their production line (or an aftermarket company does it). This is exactly how the 4/0 is evolving with The Tank. It is a work in progress and is a very good example of fine thinking and experimentation to make a product better.
Quote from: Makule on September 24, 2012, 05:33:31 PM
QuoteI know that Alan could bring us an upgraded sleeve and SS gears, but he just might not want us to kick the Baja's butt all the way!
Why not? That is the way progress is achieved in industry. Someone produces a good product, hobbyists fiddle around with it and make it better, then the manufacturer adopts it into their production line (or an aftermarket company does it). This is exactly how the 4/0 is evolving with The Tank. It is a work in progress and is a very good example of fine thinking and experimentation to make a product better.
Good point, Makule. Dominick
I have a normally aspirated (stock 3.25:1 ratio) tanked standard (not narrow) 113H. I plan to fish it with 60# (@ 15# drag) top shot, would this be too much for the stock drive train (gears, yoke, drag sleeve). I plan to use this for local trolling and 60# bottom fishing.
Leo
Hello Leo, i believe that you should be ok.
Sal
Quote from: LTM on September 26, 2012, 07:50:33 AM
I have a normally aspirated (stock 3.25:1 ratio) tanked standard (not narrow) 113H. I plan to fish it with 60# (@ 15# drag) top shot, would this be too much for the stock drive train (gears, yoke, drag sleeve). I plan to use this for local trolling and 60# bottom fishing.
Leo
I've used
100% stock 113H reels with 50lb and 15lbs of drag in the past but the brass gear sleeves get dammaged.
Lee,
I was thinking of adding a ss gear sleeve. I want to retain the stock gear ratio for the application used (local trolling/bottom fishing). Do you recommend anything other than the ss gear sleeve for reliability w/60#?
Thanx Lee/Justin,
Leo
Not if you stay at 15lb and lower but the other parts and mods are nice to have. I like the stock gear ratio for halibut but the 4:1 gears I was given seem to work real well in my Tank.
When I get back from deer hunting my 114H will be "fixed".
15 pounds is kind of the practical limit for the brass parts.
Well, this is the start of (hopefully) my contribution to this find thread that has inspired so many.
As cranking power is a key component of being able to fish heavier drag this thread inspired me to look into what really made the Baja Special tick as compared to these mods done by Alto Mare and others. What I noticed was that the Baja Special uses a bearing to support the handle right where it exits the reel body (Baja Special part #55B) but of course they made the opening larger to handle a standard bearing type. Alignment is really key to cranking power as any flex in the system will cause gear binding and possible damage and Penn knew this when they added more support to the handle with a bearing.
Well, my reel had a lot of room around the body opening and handle wiggle (older brass parts to be sure) but I became interested to see if there was any kind of a "plug in solution" that might emulate the Baja's performance and fit the 11/16" opening in a standard 113H. Well it appears that Boca Bearing may have an option:
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/haugusnord/P1010078.jpg)
This is a needle bearing that has ID of 0.500 (1/2") and OD of 0.6875 (11/16") and a height of 0.3125 (http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-inventory/Needle-Bearings/1036/0-5x0-6875x0-3125-SCE85).
When you install it into the reel it looks like this:
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/haugusnord/P1010079.jpg)
You can see it snugs up nicely filling the 11/16 opening and giving the drag a little more protection and supporting the handle well. It should be noted that a Needle bearing is different than a standard one and the exterior sleeve should transfer force to the drag when you crank down with no worries as it puts no stress on the cage inside. The Baja special uses a small sleeve that supports the inner ring to avoid this.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/haugusnord/P1010080.jpg)
All put together above. I'll be getting a SS Gear Sleeve from Alan soon and plug that in to be sure it works. This post is really to generate discussion and maybe someone that knows more than me (not hard when it comes to reels and bearings) might have some insight as to whether this is a good idea or not. It sure tightened up my handle though :).
No real tests yet, still in the prototype stage :). Feel free to share your thoughts.
best
Same spot that most AR bearings are located. Actually should help a lot with the gear flexing into the bridge at high drag, I like it!
Ron
John, thanks for chipping in. I like your idea of the bearing. Does the handle turn smoother than before? Also, how much is that bearing? Thanks, Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 29, 2012, 01:42:23 AM
John, thanks for chipping in. I like your idea of the bearing. Does the handle turn smoother than before? Also, how much is that bearing? Thanks, Sal
It's not a question of "smoother" (which is normally interpreted to mean handle turning pressure with no load) but a far more supported and solid feeling. Without it (and brass parts especially) you can easily flex it with virtually no load. This would certainly be transferred to the gears causing binding that will increase with the amount of load all the parts are under ie cranking under heavier drag.
The proof of the pudding would be how the reel really performs under load with an objective experiment (um, as a scientist I can envision a real test, don't know if I am that motivated :)). But it should without question make it superior to no support at all like my reel was before this mod.
The bearing was ~$10 plus S/H from Boca came to $12.10 I think.
best
ps: w/o question this bearing is out there "flapping in the breeze" exposed to salt and water as compared to other bearings so some vigilance is going to be necessary to keep it alive. I used Cal's on it as it sits right over the drag stack and didn't want to contaminate it with corrosion-x. Though, now that I think about it, Corrosion-X HD might be ideal for it. It's not a bearing to improve any kind of "free spinning" like a spool bearing so just protecting lube should be ideal.
Neat idea. I'm impressed!
I hear what you're saying and see where you're trying to get to. I'm more concearned on the handle turning under load, but i don't know much about those bearings, or how tight the tolerance is. Testing on the water should answer the question for us.
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 29, 2012, 02:09:03 AM
I hear what you're saying and see where you're trying to get to. I'm more concearned on the handle turning under load, but i don't know much about those bearings, or how tight the tolerance is. Testing on the water should answer the question for us.
Yep, exactly what I'm thinking too and it certainly remains unproven. On the ID it seems there is a tiny bit of play. I'm not certain if this is simply the cage and how it normally plays or not. The OD is a perfect fit in the opening in the body so is very well supported.
Observation:
When the drag is cranked down it of course traps the sleeve of the bearing between the star and the drag washers so that it rotates against the opening. The Baja Bearing system is different in that the pressure goes entirely in the ID ring leaving the OD ring to remain unmoving.
Effectively, the bearing is acting as an "oil bearing" or like a much thicker OD sleeve than the stock. The question becomes: Can it rotate against the body opening like this and not cause untoward binding and wear? And at highest drag pressures that you are cranking against at what point does it bind against the body and turn freely on the inside only.....hmmmm. :-\
Thanks John and Sal. This is the kind of thinking that makes this site terrific. Dominick
By the looks of it, I think it needs a inner collar, much like the AR bearings to allow the shaft to rotate smoothly and not bind the bearing. Very interesting. Something to look into for sure.
Well done.
Looks like a good idea,I wonder what it will do under load,looks like some adult bobber fishing is in order.
Quote from: Bryan Young on September 29, 2012, 11:29:15 AM
By the looks of it, I think it needs a inner collar, much like the AR bearings to allow the shaft to rotate smoothly and not bind the bearing.
I agree. Without an inner collar, if/when the bearing cover does contact the side plate, there will be friction. Given that the sleeve should take up most of the tangential forces, this may not be much, however, unless given regular cleaning and lube, it should be fairly easy to have some grit wedge in between and cause binding.
As far as a sleeve inside goes I think we may be constrained by the dimensions. This bearing certainly has no room for one on the inside and the difference of the ID to OD is only 3/16" to fit around the handle shaft but fit inside the 11/16" opening in the body.
The Baja Special has a traditional bearing that has the inner ring functioning as a sleeve with a small sleeve underneath it to keep the ID ring isolated so that the bearings themselves to not receive axial (or thrust) load (if I understand the terms correctly) and there is no friction on the side plate.
The Alternative would be to use a bearing just like it or even the same one, and any competent machinist could mill out our body plate to the right size and we could plug one in.
Is there anyone out there that has a Baja Special handle bearing (part #55B) and a pair of calipers that could tell us the dimensions? It would be nice to know if the ID is the same as the diameter of a 113H gear sleeve so that we could easily use those parts after modifying the side plate, though I would probably send the bearing to a machinist as well to be sure it was a perfect fit.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/haugusnord/55_12h.jpg)
best
ps. Part of my motivation for this is to come up with more reliable cranking power, but even at lower drag settings. The big "bottleneck" in making a tank seems to be the scarcity and cost of the Stainless Main Gear and Pinion ($70-90). If the gears can be supported by bearing much better than they should hold up reliably to 20lbs drag I would think? And maybe reduce the entry cost to greatly improving an old 113H.
John, I appreciate your effort. I just don't see what we'll gain by adding a sleeve on the inside of the bearing, to me this would make the bearing useless. I haven't experienced any problems at that area and yes I do believe that my tank could handle 25lb if needed. Most times the problem with gears stripping is related to the frame twisting under load, I believe that we're OK here. The additional dog also helps keeping the sleeve square under load by holding pressure on both sides of the gear sleeve. You're right there is a little flex there but not enough to create any problems, I'm sure they all flex at that area. I'm liking the way you're thinking, bu I don't believe that this one will work. Don't give up, I'm sure that you'll come up with something. Thanks again.
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 29, 2012, 11:03:31 PM
John, I appreciate your effort. I just don't see what we'll gain by adding a sleeve on the inside of the bearing, to me this would make the bearing useless. I haven't experienced any problems at that area and yes I do believe that my tank could handle 25lb if needed. Most times the problem with gears stripping is related to the frame twisting under load, I believe that we're OK here. The additional dog also helps keeping the sleeve square under load by holding pressure on both sides of the gear sleeve. You're right there is a little flex there but not enough to create any problems, I'm sure they all flex at that area. I'm liking the way you're thinking, bu I don't believe that this one will work. Don't give up, I'm sure that you'll come up with something. Thanks again.
Sal
O yea, to be sure all we are really accomplishing is a re-invention of the Baja special, not creating something totally new. The beauty of the 113H is that so many have come up with mods for it over the years as it has been so amenable to it. What a sleeve does is create a more uniform surface for the needles in the bearing to work on. In the Baja bearing it's just standard in a bearing of that type. The additional sleeve in the Baja Special below the bearing supports this inner ring of the bearing to prevent the washers from pinching the shields and harming the balls inside (I believe).
1. Firstly, I come to this with no formal training other than my college physics. I am an MD and Molecular Biology Researcher. So I'm no mechanical engineer to be sure.
2. As far as reels go, I never really thought of them in a technical sense until I started using high end spinners. Then, with Alan Hawk's and Master Tani's reviews as inspiration it started occurring to me just what made them work or not and how easy it was to self service them (and how sweet they work when you do).
3. Shimano has made an entire marketing campaign based on "x-ship" which is essentially an additional bearing support of the pinion. If you had used a reel that simply had a bushing then used the identical reel with a bearing installed in the same spot you notice right away there are significant increases in cranking power. It has kinda led me to think in a "let's add a bearing!" sort of way.
4. The unsupported length of the lever that the gear sleeve represents was remarkable to me.The Baja Special is a perfect example of this with numerous additional bearings to improve strength, durability and casting.
5. The dogs themselves shouldn't add much if any torsional resistance to the gear sleeve as good as it is to have two. The vector for the force they exert is perpendicular to that created by the handle when it flexes the gear sleeve at the side plate opening.
6. Penn themselves added a bearing in this spot to support the handle in the Baja Special after the reel had been used at length. I think we can safely assume that they did so for good reason ;D so I thought to myself "heck why not".
Anyways, it's all for kicks and grins and fun to see how far we can take such a fun reel to cheaply mod into whatever form we get to call our own. Thanks for the inspiration.
best
John, Perhaps I didn't explain myself properly. I wasn't referring to your idea not working, I was talking about the bearing with collar/ sleeves. The reason I believe that it wouldn't work is that as soon as you apply pressure, the collar would become immobile, therefore rendering the bearing useless. About the additional dog, yes I agree that it doesn't stop it from flexing, but I do believe that it helps. Two dogs are better than one. Take care, Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 30, 2012, 12:26:16 AM
John, Perhaps I didn't explain myself properly. I wasn't referring to your idea not working, I was talking about the bearing with collar/ sleeves. The reason I believe that it wouldn't work is that as soon as you apply pressure, the collar would become immobile, therefore rendering the bearing useless. About the additional dog, yes I agree that it doesn't stop it from flexing, but I do believe that it helps. Two dogs are better than one. Take care, Sal
Yea, it's kinda hard to explain without a diagram....
bear with me:
The drag washer (#8) puts force on the bearing on either the outer sleeve (in my case with a needle bearing) or the inner sleeve (in the case of penn's standard bearing). When you crank down the star this force immobilizes the sleeve it comes in contact with and it is frozen between the drag washers and the star. In my case that sleeve then has to rotate against the side plate when you crank, a potential source of friction and wear. Basically the outer part of the bearing has to rotate in it's receptacle which to some extent defeats the purpose of the bearing...The question remains if this is much of an issue over time.
In the case of the Penn method, when you crank the inner sleeve moves but the outer sleeve doesn't, functioning like a bearing normally would. The inner sleeve can operate independently of the outer, with no friction on the side plate and causing no wear over time.
The method I posted was more than anything looking for a sleeve that would fill the 11/16 opening completely as well as have the ID to shim tight on the inside to stiffen up the gear sleeve. I chose the needle bearing because it was all I could find that had the right inner and outer dimensions....Unfortunately even though the friction I feel when the star is tightened seems to be all drag, with load the side plate would take more force and might cause problems if used in true "tank" conditions (ie 20+lbs of drag).
best regards, and sorry to get long winded above.
Yes John I get it about the outer sleeve being frozen when applying drag pressure and the gear sleeve moving along with the bearings, I was talking about the inner sleeve, that would be useless anless you keep the outer sleeve attached to the plate, that doesn't make sense to me., but it might just be me.
Quote from: Alto Mare on September 30, 2012, 02:09:06 AM
Yes John I get it about the outer sleeve being frozen when applying drag pressure and the gear sleeve moving along with the bearings, I was talking about the inner sleeve, that would be useless anless you keep the outer sleeve attached to the plate, that doesn't make sense to me., but it might just be me.
If it is fit well the tiniest amount of friction should cause it to freeze and and allow the bearing to function like it should transmitting no friction from the side plate to your cranking effort.
Quote from: johndtuttle on September 29, 2012, 06:27:27 PM
Is there anyone out there that has a Baja Special handle bearing (part #55B) and a pair of calipers that could tell us the dimensions? It would be nice to know if the ID is the same as the diameter of a 113H gear sleeve so that we could easily use those parts after modifying the side plate, though I would probably send the bearing to a machinist as well to be sure it was a perfect fit.
The Baja Special gear sleeve is the same diameter as a jigmaster gear sleeve. The Baja Special bearing won't fit a 113H gear sleeve.
Quote from: George4741 on September 30, 2012, 02:20:49 AM
Quote from: johndtuttle on September 29, 2012, 06:27:27 PM
Is there anyone out there that has a Baja Special handle bearing (part #55B) and a pair of calipers that could tell us the dimensions? It would be nice to know if the ID is the same as the diameter of a 113H gear sleeve so that we could easily use those parts after modifying the side plate, though I would probably send the bearing to a machinist as well to be sure it was a perfect fit.
The Baja Special gear sleeve is the same diameter as a jigmaster gear sleeve. The Baja Special bearing won't fit a 113H gear sleeve.
thanks very much for that!
best
George, I need you to do me a favor, please only do this if your Baja is still open. Could you let me know if the bridge post measures 6mm or 5.17mm in width? Thank you.
Sal
Sal, it measures .248 inch/6.299 mm. Interestingly enough, a 113H gear sleeve fits on the post perfectly, and the retaining pin is drilled in the right spot, too. Of course, there are several factors that won't allow it to work in the Baja Special.
BTW John, actual measurements of the the Baja Special bearing in question are
inner dia: .390 inch
outer dia: .747 inch
One other thing, the diameter of the Baja Special gear sleeve is slightly smaller than the jigmaster gear sleeve. I was wrong when I said they are the same size.
Quote from: George4741 on September 30, 2012, 04:05:05 AM
Sal, it measures .248 inch/6.299 mm. Interestingly enough, a 113H gear sleeve fits on the post perfectly, and the retaining pin is drilled in the right spot, too. Of course, there are several factors that won't allow it to work in the Baja Special.
BTW John, actual measurements of the the Baja Special bearing in question are
inner dia: .390 inch
outer dia: .747 inch
Thanks for that. And hmmm, very interesting. Begs the question as to whether the 113HN Gear Sleeve would work in a 113H (with all the other bits too of course).
ps. looks like the pinion design is different in how it engages the spool, so no go from the get go.
John,
Take a look at the schematic for the 113MTL. It also has a bearing at the end of the gear sleeve. I think idealy the star should press on a sleeve that fits inside of the bearing, putting no pressure on the bearing at all. That is how the 113MTL appears to be set up. I haven't checked my HN's yet
Thanks George, you're always there to help, I appreciate it. I think we've got something here. :-\
John, thanks to you too for keeping the flame going on this one.
In the very beginning when I put this out , I mentioned that I would like to see others get involved and help with their ideas to keep improving, I'm glad it's happening.
Sal
Quote from: day0ne on September 30, 2012, 05:18:07 AM
John,
Take a look at the schematic for the 113MTL. It also has a bearing at the end of the gear sleeve. I think idealy the star should press on a sleeve that fits inside of the bearing, putting no pressure on the bearing at all. That is how the 113MTL appears to be set up. I haven't checked my HN's yet
Thanks for that. I'll check it out. :)
That is also how the Diawa Millionaire is set up for the AR bearing.
Ron
G'day lads,
I was asked recently by AT member Peter (p-deverett) to double-dog a couple of 113Hs and, given they're both variations on the theme, thought a few pics might be of use to others...
The first is an injection-molded 113H.
There was no 'meat' within which to fit the second dog and spring, so I cut away the unnecessary plastic, then took Will's suggestion and twisted up a S/S torsion spring instead.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/20/3590_06_08_17_3_18_29_20426940.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/20/3590_06_08_17_3_18_29_204272221.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/20/3590_06_08_17_3_20_23_204452255.jpeg)
It's important to create a little clearance via a small, circular hollow beneath the dog, like so:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/20/3590_06_08_17_3_18_30_204292493.jpeg)
The spring wedges into the corner thus:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/20/3590_06_08_17_3_16_49_203861159.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/20/3590_06_08_17_3_16_48_203851454.jpeg)
As you can see, there's plenty of clearance between the spring, the dog and the main gear.
Also, despite the camera angle, there's clearance between the spring hook and the bridge plate.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/20/3590_06_08_17_3_16_49_20387271.jpeg)
The second was a Pro Gear GR3500.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/20/3590_06_08_17_3_13_32_20354275.jpeg)
Hope that's of some interest/assistance.
All the best, Justin
Wow, very good Justin.
Nice problem solving Justin, I will now work on the ones that I set aside ;). BTW, how do you keep your hands so clean? Do you wear gloves and pull them off when taking pictures? ;D. If so, I should start doing the same, my wife is complaining about me greasing up her $800 camera with my crap . I tried to tell her that it makes it work smoother, but she didn't buy it ::)
QuoteI tried to tell her that it makes it work smoother, but she didn't buy it
;) ;D
I didn't for years, but finally found some high-quality disposable surgical gloves that aren't latex or powdered, and can handle sharp edges without tearing.
I only started when I noticed I was reacting to white spirit and carb cleaner, and also began wondering what the long-term effects might be of having my hands in marine/teflon grease etc five to six days a week.
I still often run out and/or forget to put 'em on... ;)
Good job as always Justin. You can't slip anything by Sal. I think he checks out every post with a microscope! I'm not sleeping at night because he let me know I put my 114h backwards on the Tib frame. But at least he keeps us honest. ;D
Justin,
Nice thinking with that "small circular hollow" in the dog. You always make it look so easy 8)
Dom
Looks great Justin, looking forward to catching up
Peter
I've been seeing a heap of Baja Special for sale lately :-\, that could mean that they finally woke up and realized that the Tank is a tougher reel.
;D ;D
The exchange between johndtuttle and Sal has me confused. I'm having a difficult time visualizing the modification that John is talking about. John (or anyone else) would it be possible to post a line drawing so I can see what you're trying to accomplish and what issues Sal is referring to?
Also, not to through water on anyone's parade, but one should also keep in mind that adding "stuff" to the reel increases weight. As we move towards stronger drags, we move towards stronger SS sleeves, stronger frames, double dogs, etc., and all of that adds weight. Add more bearings, more weight. Maybe pretty soon the whole thing starts to weight about the same as an HN or MTL and makes one think about modifying those, or even some of the lever drag reels. With the greatest respect for Sal, because he's considered many mods and has weighed (pun intended) the pros versus cons, it can get pretty easy to get carried away with things.
For example, I could probably produce a longer post, sleeve, and gears (not helical) so that the whole thing could hold maybe even 20 disks. Get you maybe 50 lb, and more, of drag. But why do that if it's of no practical value, or the benefits can already be had in existing reels?
Some people tell me they climb mountains just because the mountain is there (aka "I'll do it just because I can"). For me, it's a matter of climbing the mountain only if it helps me accomplish something (like being able to breathe, of finding that pot of gold, etc.).
No issues here at all Albert, just surprised to see so many Bajas for sale this week.
Nothing against you, but be careful on how you think. One day you might say why get up today and go to work, knowing that I will die one day ;D.
Myself and others here like to push things to their limits, why? becouse it's there for us to explore ;). Does it make any sense?....who cares.
Later buddy. Sal
One good thing is SS is lighter than brass.
QuoteNothing against you, but be careful on how you think. One day you might say why get up today and go to work, knowing that I will die one day Grin.
No offense taken.
Sorry, can't die yet. Too many things to do. Have enough projects to keep me going for 50+ years, and I've been talking to my wife recently about pursuing a third career. Knowing that my day will come keeps me trying to finish the things I want to before that happens.
I would love to thank everyone on this site for all of their excellent info on builing a T4NK. I just completed building one and I can't wait to fish it. I took advise about the grinding of side plate for the 2nd dog . I did however leave a little extra meat on the sideplate so the dog spring stays well in place under the bridge plate. I did however remove about .25-.5MM from the side of the dog itself , which will in no way affect performance or durability, and I like the idea of the spring staying firmly in place. I have enclosed pics of the grinded area , the dog spring installed and the T4NK I just completted that I think looks awesome
The grinded sideplate
The dog spring under the bridge plate
And my finished handywork , thanks again guys
Looks like you have a plate that can be used for letf hand or right hand. I did something similar, it's on one of the pages here on this long book ;D, but I used a flat spring. Very nice job, thanks for sharing.
that reel looks awesome ;).
Sal
Thanks Sal. I have always been addicted to my rod building but now I have a new way to spend my time and money ;D
Nice.
terrific,dont forget the pic; after you land im. also line,drag,etc;
Great Job. I bet it fishes as good as it looks. Bob
Very nice reel,keep it up.
William
So I read through the whole thread and can't wait to try this myself, but it looks like I need ss dogs from Keta, ss sleeve from Alan, ss yoke from smoothdrags. No way to do one stop shopping ?
I guess I'll have to pick out some new delron handles and make it a project.
I already picked up some of those steel 4:1 gears on ebay. (Did anyone actually fish with them yet? Are they worth the price?)
My wife hates it when I read this site now . . .
Alan has some SS dogs. If he's out I'm easy to deal with.
Quote from: Makule on November 16, 2012, 04:05:17 AM
The exchange between johndtuttle and Sal has me confused. I'm having a difficult time visualizing the modification that John is talking about. John (or anyone else) would it be possible to post a line drawing so I can see what you're trying to accomplish and what issues Sal is referring to?
Also, not to through water on anyone's parade, but one should also keep in mind that adding "stuff" to the reel increases weight. As we move towards stronger drags, we move towards stronger SS sleeves, stronger frames, double dogs, etc., and all of that adds weight. Add more bearings, more weight. Maybe pretty soon the whole thing starts to weight about the same as an HN or MTL and makes one think about modifying those, or even some of the lever drag reels. With the greatest respect for Sal, because he's considered many mods and has weighed (pun intended) the pros versus cons, it can get pretty easy to get carried away with things.
For example, I could probably produce a longer post, sleeve, and gears (not helical) so that the whole thing could hold maybe even 20 disks. Get you maybe 50 lb, and more, of drag. But why do that if it's of no practical value, or the benefits can already be had in existing reels?
Some people tell me they climb mountains just because the mountain is there (aka "I'll do it just because I can"). For me, it's a matter of climbing the mountain only if it helps me accomplish something (like being able to breathe, of finding that pot of gold, etc.).
Sorry, I know you posted this a while back but let me explain.
If you check your own Penn Senator by flexing the handle back and forth you will notice a fair amount of "slop". The way the gear sleeve fits onto the post of the bridge has pretty loose tolerances and this slop when you are cranking will cause misalignment of the main and pinion resulting in binding.
Some of this (in my case) is that I haven't upgraded to a one piece frame as yet. But if you note, virtually all of the top star drag or lever drag reels use bearings to support their gear sleeve or "drive shaft" as the case may be. This in conjunction with one piece machined frames keeps the main gear and pinion in close alignment. This leads to superior cranking power under load.
Note, the Baja Special and the Metal Senator have bearings supporting their gear sleeves as well. This is a standard upgrade to improve performance in higher end reels. The more things that are held in perfect alignment the more cranking power you get for the given gear ratio and the longer the parts all hold up.
best regards
Wel I guess I am old school but for 37 oz. with 525 yds. of 80# line on it and 25+ pounds of drag this isn't bad.I guess I am like Sal I love a good tank.
(http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii608/saltydogreelrepair/2013-02-15185612_zps2a006a5b.jpg)
That's one sharp looking reel, William. I also like that nice carving job you did on that plate ;). Lots of luck with it.
Sal
Some mentioned that these reels get heavy with all of the upgrades that we keep adding. Here is just a comparison of two older reels, both in standard size:
(http://i.imgur.com/g6cbEIk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/EjSnJN0.jpg)
The red one has been upgraded with ss sleeve, ss gears, ss yoke, ss handle, (5) ss drag washers and a topless Tib frame.
5 oz. is a lot of weight for a fishing reel.
Well I guess for some but when guys are useing 12 oz. of lead 300 feet down I think the point becomes moot,don't you agree.
William, I meant 5oz. is a lot of weight by comparison.
You are absolutely right about your comment, weight comes into play with some type of fishing.
I was just answering one of the comment above, not related to your reel at all.
SS is lighter than brass. One of the best things I did was replace a heavy bronze spool with a much lighter aluminum one on a 349H.
Yes once I get all the parts together I am gonna put an aluminum spool on a standard width 113H with ss gear sleeve,steel 3.25:1 gear,ss double dogs and a 7+1 drag stack,with an accurate frame for my grouper and snapper bait reel.
These reels are not heavy. I just sold my old International 20. That was heavy!
Now those internationals were heavy,a Tank is much lighter.
I have a couple baja specials and I have 2 tanks with all the fixins. Steel double dogs, accurate gears, stainless yoke, stainless shaft, and topless tiburon frame. I straightened a hook this weekend on my tank. I think it may have been a jewfish. I held the spool with my thumb and the tank held tight as always. Not a small hook either, 7/0 circle. I also landed a few bull sharks this weekend in the 200 pound class. I was bottom dropping 10 ounces lead with live bait, no issues. We limited on red snapper and I caught the biggest red grouper I have seen landed since I have been fishing. The tanks are as durable and reliable as anything out there. The baja's are nice but I do not like the large reel seat it has. It makes it impossible to put on my favorite rod. They are not much on bling appeal but fisherman want equipment that is tough not pretty, Well at least this fisherman.
Very nice Shelbank. Take some pictures next time, we love pictures around here.
Sal
Nice! We are headed out on my buddies 42' Bert this Friday and coming back in Sunday. Headed to the Shelf and floaters and everywhere in between. So the reel will get a real workout for the first time.
I spooled it with 200 yards of 30lb mono and 300 yards of 50lb braid.
I've noticed it has some play/slack in it. If I reel it up tight, it lets a little back out on its own. Say I have a leader on it, I clip the leader to an eye and try to reel it up tight to hold, it doesn't hold tight. I can turn the handle back about an inch it seems. Is this normal?
Quote from: FirePro911 on June 06, 2013, 01:49:49 PM
Is this normal?
Yes, it's the nature of non AR bearing reels. The AR dog is engaging with the ratchet on the gear sleeve.
Ask and you shall receive
(http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a503/Troy_Argabright/Facebook/iOS%20Photos/983740_623681047661967_172149898_n.jpg) (http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/Troy_Argabright/media/Facebook/iOS%20Photos/983740_623681047661967_172149898_n.jpg.html)
s1281.photobucket.com/user/Troy_Argabright/media/Facebook/iOS%20Photos/972086_625307984165940_484481007_n.jpg.html](http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a503/Troy_Argabright/Facebook/iOS%20Photos/972086_625307984165940_484481007_n.jpg)[/URL]
(http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a503/Troy_Argabright/Facebook/iOS%20Photos/935218_625307317499340_1013434329_n.jpg) (http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/Troy_Argabright/media/Facebook/iOS%20Photos/935218_625307317499340_1013434329_n.jpg.html)
I will try and post some pictures from this weekend if weather clears out. Snapper season is short in the Gulf.
Nice photos mate, what are the brown fish with your snapper? Your snapper look a bit like ours.
Great shots Shellbank, thanks for sharing. I remember that snapper being very tasty, the last time I came down Islamorada, I believe I had it blackened. Is that young man getting any on the boat yet?
Sal
Sal,
That is my oldest son. He made the trip that day, he reeled in a few with the rod in the holder so he could use both hands. And as far as brown fish I think u may be talking about the red grouper. Bottom left of the picture, one is missing some significant body mass due to bull shark. The others are lesser amberjack and yes those red snapper are very good eating.
Yes you're right and that's what I meant to write. BTW, my wife doesn't eat fish, she ate that blackened grouper that night....good stuff. I also remember catching tripletails, something that I've never seen up north. Any floating object on the water and sure enough there would be tripletails below. Are those good to eat?
I miss Islamorada, can't wait to get back.
That boy is on the right track, how couldn't he be, you got him started on a tank. ;D
Shellbank, this is such a great post and pictures. Thanks so much for showing us. :o :o
Bob
Excellent! We are headed out a little over a 100 miles today and coming in Sunday afternoon on my buddies boat. Ill post up pics when we get back.
Sal,
Triple tails are great eating, I have not seen any this year. But I have been fishing live bottom and limestone. Those hang out under anything floating. We been bottom dropping mostly. I may do some searching if I come across a weed line this weekend. I need to put some mahi in the freezer anyway.
Quote from: FirePro911 on June 07, 2013, 04:58:47 PM
Excellent! We are headed out a little over a 100 miles today and coming in Sunday afternoon on my buddies boat. Ill post up pics when we get back.
Are you bringing the new tank you just put together? Don't forget the camera...... Stay dry ;)
Nice catch of some of the best tasting fish out there. Way to get the next generation out there to do some yanking... Give em a fish and they eat well today, teach em how to fish and they eat well forever;)
When I was in the Everglades last year with mom we did sight fishing for triple tail and landed one out of about 4 that we saw. It was tough to get used to because they look like dinner plates on the surface from a distance because they lay sideways on the surface.
Well done,
Dom
Give em a fish and they eat well today, teach em how to fish and they eat well forever;)
Dom, one of the truest sayings in life.
Mike.
It has been over 18 months since I started the " Tank ". I was lucky enough to have my buddy Dominick (Pescachaser ) give this reel a good workout.
He has caught some nice fish on it, The last fish wash a 150lb Marlin, he mentioned that the Marlin didn't give him half of the fight that the Roosterfish did.
I asked Dominick if he could send the tank back to me, I wanted to take a look at the inner parts, he kindly agreed.
So, here is the tank:
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/The%20Tank/001_zpsc6636b8c.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/The%20Tank/001_zpsc6636b8c.jpg.html)
Dominick wanted to know how much drag he was getting, so the first thing I did was to take tank outside and test it
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/The%20Tank/007_zps6d5cd753.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/The%20Tank/007_zps6d5cd753.jpg.html)
here is what I got, about 21lb
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/The%20Tank/003_zpsd18791b0.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/The%20Tank/003_zpsd18791b0.jpg.html)
and here is the tank on my workbench ready for disassembly
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/The%20Tank/001_zps3177981a.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/The%20Tank/001_zps3177981a.jpg.html)
I mentioned earlier that the tank had two small issued, here is one of them
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/The%20Tank/003_zps738dff85.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/The%20Tank/003_zps738dff85.jpg.html)
The handle knob started to work itself loose. When I assembled it I used low strenght threadlock, this time I used medium strenght.
I told Dominick that if it gets loose again, he will need permanent loctite.
Honestly, after removing the handle screw, I believe that he would have still been anble to fish, that knob has a nice size screw.
when I removed the handle I noticed a lot of black grease, didn't look good, I thought the washer under the main gear got chewed up.
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/The%20Tank/006_zpse5dd9b43.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/The%20Tank/006_zpse5dd9b43.jpg.html)
wasn't the case, Cal's got mixed with the carbon fiber, that's all. BTW, the washer under the gear looked good
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/The%20Tank/014_zps6dbd5b18.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/The%20Tank/014_zps6dbd5b18.jpg.html)
the tank looked the same as the day I put it together
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/The%20Tank/017_zps057ed71d.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/The%20Tank/017_zps057ed71d.jpg.html)
here is the second issue
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/The%20Tank/012_zps3dc42e01.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/The%20Tank/012_zps3dc42e01.jpg.html)
as you can see from the picture the tongue on the right is thicker than the left one.
I thought I was doing a good thing but actually it caused the C clip to come off while Dominick was fishing.
He was able to put it back at the hotel though.
I mentioned to Dominick that I was going to try to give him some more drag, probably close to 30lb.
This is the way I decided to go
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/The%20Tank/021_zpsd4b76deb.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/The%20Tank/021_zpsd4b76deb.jpg.html)
the gear on the right is the new upgrade.
I also decided to give Dominick a better bridge
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/The%20Tank/024_zps428d0f0d.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/The%20Tank/024_zps428d0f0d.jpg.html)
this one will help keep the spring in place, not that I had problems with the old bridge, I figured if I was able to do it, why not use it.
I put everything back and took the tank outdoors for some testing
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/The%20Tank/031_zpsea4d86e1.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/The%20Tank/031_zpsea4d86e1.jpg.html)
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/The%20Tank/038_zps278521d0.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/The%20Tank/038_zps278521d0.jpg.html)
this is what I got
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/The%20Tank/037_zps4b75b3ec.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/The%20Tank/037_zps4b75b3ec.jpg.html)
Enjoy it for what it's worth, thanks again Dominick and others that were involved.
Dominick, I'm hoping that you will take the tank with you again, on the Tournament.
If you do, fish it hard. The drags feel a little smoother that earlier, to get to 30lb you need to crank the star all the way....don't hold back.
I checked everything twice, the tank is ready to go. I will drop it in the mail to you as soon as I can.
Thanks again for doing this buddy.
Sal
I had the same issues with my handle screw. Loc tight 8) no more probs
Hey Sal, how did you add the metal to the bridge? I don't like the idea of the dog spring sitting out there either. Do you think JB Weld would work?
Very nice, buddy. 30 pounds! 8)
Is the thick clicker tongue something I cut? I had to hand hone a lot of metal off the one I put in my reel and didn't think I sent any out.
Is that a penn Mariner stand up rod you are punishing there Sal?
Quote from: Norcal Pescador on June 25, 2013, 01:43:20 PM
Hey Sal, how did you add the metal to the bridge? I don't like the idea of the dog spring sitting out there either. Do you think JB Weld would work?
Very nice, buddy. 30 pounds! 8)
Rob, I'm not a fan of JB Weld but I hear lots of good things about it here. That's solder, I don't believe it's going anywhere soon, that stuff is on to stay ;).
Quote from: Keta on June 25, 2013, 01:45:58 PM
Is the thick clicker tongue something I cut? I had to hand hone a lot of metal off the one I put in my reel and didn't think I sent any out.
No Lee, I had that one. You did send me a couple of ss clickers, but those were too small for the tank. I did grind that one nicely, but I only did it around the hole ::). A person that never makes mistakes doesn't know a thing ;)
Quote from: Shark Hunter on June 25, 2013, 02:06:20 PM
Is that a penn Mariner stand up rod you are punishing there Sal?
No Daron, that's a Captain's Choice FB564060. One of my favorite rods .
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 26, 2013, 12:02:34 AM
Quote from: Norcal Pescador on June 25, 2013, 01:43:20 PM
Hey Sal, how did you add the metal to the bridge? I don't like the idea of the dog spring sitting out there either. Do you think JB Weld would work?
Very nice, buddy. 30 pounds! 8)
Rob, I'm not a fan of JB Weld but I hear lots of good things about it here. That's solder, I don't believe it's going anywhere soon, that stuff is on to stay ;).
Sal, how did you get such a large build-up of it? Did you use a propane torch or was a soldering iron hot enough?
Rob
Propane torch, Rob. I don't believe a soldering iron would do it.
Earlier I explained how I did it over by Fish Pro's post "Penn Senator II 113 HLW"
Sal
Thanks Sal.
Hey Guys!
The Boss gave me a great deal on a T4NK kit and stainless sleeve.
I only have one 4/0. I guess its going to be a Tank!
Look out Dom! Going to try and top that rooster fish!
Quote from: Shark Hunter on July 03, 2013, 03:32:38 AM
Hey Guys!
The Boss gave me a great deal on a T4NK kit and stainless sleeve.
I only have one 4/0. I guess its going to be a Tank!
Look out Dom! Going to try and top that rooster fish!
World record is 114lbs. Apparently someone fishing in La Paz with Tail Hunters International landed one bigger than the world record took a picture and sent it back. You have to admire a sportsman like that. In 15 years of fishing the Cabo area my rooster was the biggest I saw down there and my personal best. It would be my pleasure to see you with a picture of a bigger fish. They are out there, so go for it. Dominick
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 24, 2013, 09:38:45 PM
I mentioned to Dominick that I was going to try to give him some more drag, probably close to 30lb.
This is the way I decided to go
[I also decided to give Dominick a better bridge
Dominick, I'm hoping that you will take the tank with you again, on the Tournament.
If you do, fish it hard. The drags feel a little smoother that earlier, to get to 30lb you need to crank the star all the way....don't hold back.
I checked everything twice, the tank is ready to go. I will drop it in the mail to you as soon as I can.
Thanks again for doing this buddy.
Sal
Sal I received the reel. I unpacked it and took to the garage and attached it to a Penn Senator Rod 50-80 lbs. I attached it to my scale then to the bumper of "Rosie" she is my Chevy Blazer. All this time my wife was waiting to go out to dinner so I had to put it aside. I am up in the high country for the 4th of July weekend and I will not be able to get Rosie to give the reel a work-out. I'll get El Pescador over here to hold the rod and reel while Rosie and I drive off. I will report soon. Dominick
You Go Dom!
Dominick, with gas being so high priced nowadays maybe you could have Bryan run down the block with it. I heard somewhere he has experience in such matters. :D
Quote from: BMITCH on July 03, 2013, 12:35:28 PM
Dominick, with gas being so high priced nowadays maybe you could have Bryan run down the block with it. I heard somewhere he has experience in such matters. :D
;D I dont' mind running. I just don't want to hold the rod at 30#s. Actually, we should film it. I predict that the rod will fly out of Dom's hands at some point and Wayne will not hear Dom say STOP! ;D
You're all nuts. :-*
Hey, Hey, Hey!!!
I seem to be getting dragged into this conversation!
Dom, wasn't Rosie the name of your second wife??? ;D Enjoy the Tahoe weekend, and if you have time, splash a few trout lures in the lake for some "BAIT" catching as you call it!
and Sal, seriously, we will get photos of Dom testing the "TANK" for the 30 lbs. of drag, that will now become a game changer!!!
an early Happy July 4th wishes to all, and remember to read (or re-read) the Declaration of Independence!
Wayne
Quote from: Norcal Pescador on July 03, 2013, 02:08:08 PM
You're all nuts. :-*
x2 ;D
Dominick, you have lots of hills there, let Wayne sit in a wagon and roll him dowhill. He appears to be the right size around 200lb.
Wayne, if the line or drags give up, I want you to know that I really enjoyed having you here....don't forget the helmet ;)
It's too hot to halter up one of the sheep to test the reels.
Quote from: Keta on July 03, 2013, 05:42:55 PM
It's too hot to halter up one of the sheep to test the reels.
We need Shrek the sheep with 60 lbs of wool.
Ah Shrek - NZ's most beloved sheep (sadly passed away a couple of years back) ;)
Quote from: El Pescador on July 03, 2013, 04:28:08 PM
Hey, Hey, Hey!!!
I seem to be getting dragged into this conversation!
Wayne
And dragged you will, literally, if Dominick has his way. ::) BTW Wayne, did you go fishing over Fathers Day weekend? ;)
George
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7520.0
George, SURE DID!
Check out the post!
your washers for the 349H did the trick! Now I want to upgrade to a 5 + 1 drag stack!!
Wayne
Somehow I missed your report. Looks like a wonderful time was had by all and a great fishing report!
Thank you,
George
Quote from: El Pescador on July 03, 2013, 10:19:08 PM
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7520.0
George, SURE DID!
Check out the post!
your washers for the 349H did the trick! Now I want to upgrade to a 5 + 1 drag stack!!
Wayne
I think I still have washers for a 7+1 349H drag stack.
Sal,
I finally sat down and read every post to this thread. In all of your pics, I have never seen ss dogs.
Is this double dogged with the brass ones only?
I Have my kit coming from the Boss. I am going double ss dogs, stainless sleeve, 5+1 Ht-100 stack, black pearl gears, ss yoke from smooth drag and stainless handle from fishing reel 079.
I think I have it covered. I am going to leave the outside rings chrome to match the aluminum handle.
How should I spool this beast?
I still can't get over Dominick catching a 150lb Marlin on this reel!
You should take credit where credit is due my friend. All Hail Sal!
What's the deal with Penn recognizing the Tank?
I hope they don't come up with some lame version of yours.
Take Care.
QuoteIn all of your pics, I have never seen ss dogs.
G'day SH, they're S/S from the get-go (ie in the first pic).
Looking forward to seeing your Tank come together.
Quote...credit where credit is due my friend
x2 ;) ;D
All the best, Justin
Quote from: Shark Hunter on July 04, 2013, 06:35:36 AM
Sal,
I finally sat down and read every post to this thread. In all of your pics, I have never seen ss dogs.
Is this double dogged with the brass ones only?
I Have my kit coming from the Boss. I am going double ss dogs, stainless sleeve, 5+1 Ht-100 stack, black pearl gears, ss yoke from smooth drag and stainless handle from fishing reel 079.
I think I have it covered. I am going to leave the outside rings chrome to match the aluminum handle.
How should I spool this beast?
I still can't get over Dominick catching a 150lb Marlin on this reel!
You should take credit where credit is due my friend. All Hail Sal!
What's the deal with Penn recognizing the Tank?
I hope they don't come up with some lame version of yours.
Take Care.
Daron, you're giving me too much credit, I did not make the reel, my hero Henze did. All I did was to experiment with some things and up to now they seem to work, this one happens to be the perfect size for us to explore.
I know there are reels out there that already come with all of these features, BUT, they're not the Tank ;).
About loading it, send Dominick a message, he'll be happy to let you know. I'm not sure if he used 60lb or 80lb braid.
Take pictures of your tank and post them.
Later buddy.
Sal
Well Lee!
Let's get started!!!!
I'll PM you my address.
Wayne
Quote from: redsetta on July 04, 2013, 07:05:31 AM
QuoteIn all of your pics, I have never seen ss dogs.
G'day SH, they're S/S from the get-go (ie in the first pic).
Looking forward to seeing your Tank come together.
Quote...credit where credit is due my friend
x2 ;) ;D
All the best, Justin
Thanks Justin,
I guess its the glare from the red plate that makes them look brass.
My Tank kit from The Boss Came today. Time for some double doggin!
I'm still waiting on the ss yoke from Dawn. This is going to be FUN!
I thought I had all the parts but the yoke, but this drag kit has me puzzled. Me and reely gone had some words on this, but I think its the right one. I originally ordered this for a 6/0 black. I know I need the 113 hsp. The other one on the left is for a 114hs from scotts. I think its mis labeled.
While we are on the subject, I need a drag kit for a regular black plate 4/0. I can't seem to find the kit at scotts. I found one on ebay, but is 23 bucks. I think that's a little steep.
I'm getting in over my head here and I seem to be forgetting the basics.
Too many projects at once. :P
Quote from: Shark Hunter on July 10, 2013, 05:04:37 AM
I'm still waiting on the ss yoke from Dawn. This is going to be FUN!
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/Tankparts_zps7479653e.jpg)
I thought I had all the parts but the yoke, but this drag kit has me puzzled. Me and reely gone had some words on this, but I think its the right one. I originally ordered this for a 6/0 black. I know I need the 113 hsp. The other one on the left is for a 114hs from scotts. I think its mis labeled.
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag93/darondyer/Tankparts2_zpsbff94205.jpg)
While we are on the subject, I need a drag kit for a regular black plate 4/0. I can't seem to find the kit at scotts. I found one on ebay, but is 23 bucks. I think that's a little steep.
I'm getting in over my head here and I seem to be forgetting the basics.
Too many projects at once. :P
I thought Dawn at SmoothDrag has the drag kit you need. Have you checked with Dawn?
Quote from: El Pescador on July 03, 2013, 10:19:08 PM
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7520.0
George, SURE DID!
Check out the post!
your washers for the 349H did the trick! Now I want to upgrade to a 5 + 1 drag stack!!
Wayne
Wayne, I just did a 349h 5+1. Alan found some new, old stock SmoothDrag metal washers and I used them. They work great. Unfortunately, I don't recall the cf washers that I used. Maybe we need to meet up at Dom's and have some poke and sashimi while we find the right drags. Let me know.
For the 113 drag kit, I recommend calling Mo at Scott's. I'm sure they have the parts to kit it for you.
Quote from: Bryan Young on July 10, 2013, 05:12:36 AM
Quote from: El Pescador on July 03, 2013, 10:19:08 PM
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7520.0
George, SURE DID!
Check out the post!
your washers for the 349H did the trick! Now I want to upgrade to a 5 + 1 drag stack!!
Wayne
Wayne, I just did a 349h 5+1. Alan found some new, old stock SmoothDrag metal washers and I used them. They work great. Unfortunately, I don't recall the cf washers that I used. Maybe we need to meet up at Dom's and have some poke and sashimi while we find the right drags. Let me know.
Bryan,
Great Job and let's keep Keta (Lee) in the loop, he is working on getting me some additional washers to bring my 349H up to 5 + 1 stack set up. No rush on the project, I'll be back in Cabo Jan. 2014 for a week of R&R.
Can't meet up with you at Dom's this weekend, I'm heading to the Truckee/Soda Springs area, and I'll be backpacking into the North Fork of the American River, just downstream of the Royal Gorge area, with my buddy, Jerry, whom I've known since age 6. We will be dropping in 2,200 feet into the canyon for a weekend of how we will got started fishing; wild & remote, backcountry & high altitude for wild & feisty trout. Will post some photos when we return next week.
When we do meet at Dom's, Takahashi's Market in San Mateo has a Friday Poke special, $9.95/lbs. for Ahi Tuna! Let's book Dom's schedule right now, I know he is just that flexible!
Wish us luck!
El Pescador!
Quote from: Bryan Young on July 10, 2013, 05:12:36 AM
Wayne, I just did a 349h 5+1. Alan found some new, old stock SmoothDrag metal washers and I used them. They work great. Unfortunately, I don't recall the cf washers that I used. Maybe we need to meet up at Dom's and have some poke and sashimi while we find the right drags. Let me know.
113H washers will work but I like to get over size washers and reform them to size, I'll get the Smooth Drag # today.
I got some possible bad news yesterday, the water cutter sold his 1/2 of the shop to his partner.
That is bad news :(
I hope not.
The Smooth Drag washer I used to make full OD 349H washers was a #63.
Quote from: Keta on July 10, 2013, 03:38:53 PM
I hope not.
The Smooth Drag washer I used to make full OD 349H washers was a #63.
I was referring to metal washers.
Me too, and the handle arms, and the 113H/114H octagon adapters, and the dogs and.......
What are you saying Lee, my wish list is gone?
Working on it, there is a lazer cutter in town but they have a minimum number they will cut.
I can always go back to the band saw and grinder for one or two pieces.
Lee,
I might have a source. I haven't looked into it because this is your domain, but if you don't mind I can make some calls.
Ron
You make them calls noyb!
You gotta keep the guys in high tech stainless parts. You the Man!
Lee, you are still the man to me. ;D
Quote from: Keta on July 11, 2013, 12:37:02 AM
Working on it, there is a lazer cutter in town but they have a minimum number they will cut.
I can always go back to the band saw and grinder for one or two pieces.
Lee
What is the Lazer Cutter's min order? I have enough SS here for at least 200 Newell Washers that I asked for. You still have a Newell Bridge Sleeve of mine.
Mike
Quote from: bluefish69 on July 11, 2013, 09:41:02 PM
Quote from: Keta on July 11, 2013, 12:37:02 AM
Working on it, there is a lazer cutter in town but they have a minimum number they will cut.
I can always go back to the band saw and grinder for one or two pieces.
Hi Mike, what newell washers do you need?
Lee
What is the Lazer Cutter's min order? I have enough SS here for at least 200 Newell Washers that I asked for. You still have a Newell Bridge Sleeve of mine.
Mike
Quote from: bluefish69 on July 11, 2013, 09:41:02 PM
Quote from: Keta on July 11, 2013, 12:37:02 AM
Working on it, there is a lazer cutter in town but they have a minimum number they will cut.
I can always go back to the band saw and grinder for one or two pieces.
Lee
What is the Lazer Cutter's min order? I have enough SS here for at least 200 Newell Washers that I asked for. You still have a Newell Bridge Sleeve of mine.
Mike
I'll check when I get back from the coast.
Just picked up a 113H - I will be converting it to LH retrieve and was wondering if anyone makes a left hand SS gear sleeve(Alan is probably tired of me asking for a SS sleeve for every Penn reel!)Do you guys use a delrin washer under the main gear or do you stick with the 113 CF?
Fishit, as you could see from the date this thread was started by me 3 1/2 years ago, a few things have been happening since then.
Personally I would only use a Delrin washer for under the main gear, I do it to all my reels. To me it isn't personal preference, I strongly believe it's a better choice.
Recently, I had a conversation with Alan Chui ( Black Pearl ), the stainless steel double dog bridge and second generation ss gears ( similar to the penn versa drag ) should be available soon. These upgrades will be nice.
Did you check with Alan Tani on the left hand ss sleeve? If he doesn't have it, it won't be easy for you to find one.
Shoot him an email, I can assure you he doesn't mind.
Sal
Thanks Sal, your advice is always appreciated, I didn't notice if Scott's sells the delrin washer, I'm getting the conversion kit from them and was going to get new washers from them as well(was hoping to save on shipping) or should I order washers from Dawn at smoothdrag? If I remember she sells delrin washers?
Thanks again
Not sure if I asked already it I'm wondering if the Penn factory in Philly has these parts as well? I work in Philly about 10 minutes away from the factory, I'll have to give them a call after the holidays.
Mike
You got to love flea-bay, I bought a 113H half frame, what I got instead is a 113H with Newell bars(no Penn base) and when I took the star off the drag washers came out - is this the easy access drag compartment? I already order the HT-100's from SCotts along with the left hand conversion parts, now I'm not sure if this reel is reversible and I'm hoping I won't have to buy a new side plate to do this conversion. The reel came with the old drag washers and also part 136 that looks like a hat - do I use this part with the new drag kit?
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/73826268@N04/18263546931/
You can resuse that top hat collar with the felt washer if you want to. The newer ones have a spacer and a tension spring. It will work either way.
More problems with this reel, this is the third Penn reel I have attempted to convert to LH - the others were a Squidder and Jigmaster and all have failed because the parts just don't want to work together. This is my fault though, the Fleabay seller told me this side plate was reverseable and like everything else he told me his info was wrong. I now have to buy a LH plate from Scotts and the star wheel they sent me today is a right hand wheel 10-321 not a 10-321LH.
With all the money I have spent(wasted)trying to build a mini tank in LH retrieve from old Penn reels I could have bought two new LH Alutecnos reels, very frustrating to say the least.
Mike, I checked for you and I don't have a plate as this one:
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g431/pescatore1/Picture1619.jpg
I wonder if the ss double dog bridge from Black Pearl might work for you. :-\
Yeah that's the type I need, I'm probably better off buying the standard LH 113H plate since it will probably be oriented correctly(gear box closer to seat vs further away on the reversible plate).
I'm wondering if the dog was meant to simply be flipped and used on the opposite side or is there a LH and RH dog like the squidder has? Thanks for all your suggestions.
Fishit,
I'm a lefty and what you are trying to do (mini tank) is impossible. There are no SS gear sleeves or ss gears for lefties, nor anything else needed to make a tank of any kind.
I wish it could happen, but luckily I'm ambidextrous at most things. That's my best advice to you... become a righty. ;)
Best of luck,
Dom
Doesnt alan have bunch of stainless gear sleeves that were cut as left hand ones by mistake?
Adam,
He might... I do remember something about that now that you mention it, but to me it's not worth it without the gears. I'm in for 6 sets if anyone comes out with them ;)
Thanks
Dom
nevermind, they were for the 6/0 and 9/0
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=12953.0
On a side note, I can do the stainless drag stars in left hand for the 113H. The taps are readily available, so it wouldnt be a big deal.
Why are the gears different for left handed reels?
Quote from: Three se7ens on May 31, 2015, 04:10:46 AM
Why are the gears different for left handed reels?
The pitch of the gears will pull the pinion towards the spool so the yoke springs do not have to be very strong. If you use right hand gears on a left handed reel, during hard cranking, the pinion gear will pull away from the spool disengaging the pinion gear from the yoke because the springs will not be strong enough to counter the force from the pinion gear being pushed away.
I'm ready to use the right hand sleeve - maybe I can just use it with the star turned n the opposite direction? I'm right handed and crank all reels left handed, I rather fight a fish and work a lure with my dominant arm, I just can't get used to cranking with my stronger right hand and trying to work the reel with my left is very awkward - I'm convinced that conventional reels are not as popular as spinners because of this dilema - it just doesn't make sense to me that guys crank spinners with their weaker hand and crank a convench with the stronger - I can see the other way around?
Ok I found out what the problem is, Scotts sent me a left hand ratchet but the gear sleeve has right hand threads - do I use it this way or should I try to find a left thread sleeve? If I keep the sleeve this way I can use the SS sleeve, I don't care which way the star turns as long as its fish able and its a true right hand reel(LH retrieve). How hard would it be to cut this side plate so I can put the dog in the correct space? The only cutting tool I have is a dremel, not sure if it's tough enough to cut this material?
Couldn't exit my last post, since I have to buy a new convertible/LH plate with space for the dog on either side - would it be worth it to double dog this reel using the brass gears? It's too bad I have to junk the original steel gears and replace them with the new brass one but I guess I have to sacrifice some strength in order to use this reel with a LH crank?
Quote from: Alto Mare on May 24, 2015, 01:01:37 PM
Recently, I had a conversation with Alan Chui ( Black Pearl ), the stainless steel double dog bridge and second generation ss gears ( similar to the penn versa drag ) should be available soon. These upgrades will be nice.
Sal
wow that 2nd gen SS gears for the 4/0 sounds good.
Im in the process to build a tank too, but without any hurry..and those drags sounds like a winner since the newell drags are really hard to find, this will be my big grouper special stock size 113h.
dont you know what estimated date have Alan on mind for those gears?
Hi
Can you tell me more about the main gear upgrade? It looks like the Baja Special main gear. Will this work in the older side plate that allows the drags to be changed without taking the gear out?
Thanks
Jeff
Hello Jeff, the gear you're looking at at the right is a newell gear. That gear was customized by me using hand tools, something I would never do again, it was extremely hard. That gear has been tested on the water by one of our top fisherman here, Dominick, he has caught lots of fish with it.
Soon, we will forget about those and move on with something better, as the 113HX.
To answer your question about the easy access drag system, yes, the 113HX will also work on those.
The 113HX are due in soon, I will be testing those and will let everyone know exactly how many washers they will take on the easy access plates and standard plates.
Here is a list of some of the other upgrades we're working on, this would be the place to check for updates:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=13264.0
Stay tuned!
Sal
Ah, so you are Black Pearl!
Thanks for the quick reply Sal. I have the double dog bridge set-up on a jigmaster, and it is awesome! Let me know when you have the 113H version available!
Jeff
Quote from: stoked4fishin on July 05, 2015, 04:15:33 PM
Ah, so you are Black Pearl!
Sal is not "Black Pearl" but he comes up with a lot of good mods. Alan C, Black Pearl, graciously provides us with access to manufactures that make the wonderful goodies we must have.
Oops :D
In any case, I'm learning a lot from the site, and having fun!
Thanks
A 113H SS bridge would be a huge upgrade!
-g
Quote from: Gman_WC on July 18, 2015, 04:06:34 AM
A 113H SS bridge would be a huge upgrade!
-g
Its already done Gary, but I'm not sure when they will get here. They had to make minor adjustment to make it work in all the plates available to us, I believe they were able to get it done.
There are two plates available, one with one cutout for the dogs, and the other with two cutouts. The bridge I'm showing, I was able to make it work on both plates. The plate with one cutout needed minor grinding, it wasn't a big deal, but Alan Chui, wanted a drop in unit.
(http://i.imgur.com/dABdAvs.jpg)
Also, the second run of gears did great
(http://i.imgur.com/b9oVNDU.jpg)
The pinion and main are heat treated.
To me these feel much smoother and quieter than the earlier ones. Alan said they're from the same manufacturer, but I do feel the difference.
I tested those with Adam's insert and got 44 lb by pulling...nice gears
The 10 tooth ss sleeve did very good as well, didn't take away the slop completely, but I'm guessing 50%. Having dogs working intermittently would take away some more.
Sal
Sweet! I have been waiting on those gears. 44 lbs! Go Tank!
I Guess Dominick is going to have to send it back again. ;D
Lets see a Baha pull 44 lbs. Snap, Crackle, Pop!
Quote from: Shark Hunter on July 18, 2015, 09:25:26 PM
Sweet! I have been waiting on those gears. 44 lbs! Go Tank!
I Guess Dominick is going to have to send it back again. ;D
Lets see a Baha pull 44 lbs. Snap, Crackle, Pop!
you're jealous because Sal works my tank for me. :D Dominick
You been pumping enough iron to hold that reel at max drag?? ;D
Quote from: Dominick on July 18, 2015, 09:58:39 PM
Quote from: Shark Hunter on July 18, 2015, 09:25:26 PM
Sweet! I have been waiting on those gears. 44 lbs! Go Tank!
I Guess Dominick is going to have to send it back again. ;D
Lets see a Baha pull 44 lbs. Snap, Crackle, Pop!
you're jealous because Sal works my tank for me. :D Dominick
Yes, I am! ;D
44#'s....that's a lot of drag for a small reel.
-g
That number is for testing purpose only. This reel could handle 30lb of drag.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on July 18, 2015, 09:25:26 PM
Lets see a Baha pull 44 lbs. Snap, Crackle, Pop!
I know there is not a war with the Baja special and the Sal's 113h tank, but when some one get in the custom made parts World Then you expect to make the parts better than factory.
Baja was never the flag ship of Penn but a factory made 113h narrow with some of the specs of the yellow tail special "customized reel" with some twecks here and there and with a price affordable enough for most of the weekend warrior fishermen with no tools and knowleage to made theyself the tank parts.
Dont get me wrong, I love the Baja special but I slowly getting parts and saving enought to build me a 113h Sal's Tank too but on the normal width for be my grouper special and trolling reel and the Baja Will be my Yoyo, cut bait and live bait reel.
For me 113h tank and Baja Special dont compete against each other but contrary they complement the disvantages on each and will be the perfect couple reels on every trip.
(I hope the have explain my main idea, English is not my natural lenguage)
Steelfish,
I agree. I fish Baja for months at a time and usually go out with Mexican Capitans that want to slow troll with bait. They are used to reels like the 113h and 114h's. They want you to put your reel in free spool and with the clicker on. Then loop your line over the harness lugs and wait for a fish. The ONLY downside to this style of fishing for me with the 113hn is the free spool---There is WAY to much free spool for this style of fishing & the lack of harness lugs, but I usually use my Baja Special anyway and have to keep more alert than the others using a 113h, etc.(Bottom line is I would be happier if my Baja Special did not have as much free spool. In Baja we usually don't weigh our fish, but I have never had my Baja Special fail on anything from dorado, tuna, yellowtail, to marlin and or amberjack. I also have some tanked 113h's & 114h's that relatives use and we have no problems with them either. The only downside to my tanked reels is I am never sure which reel is the MOST tanked. They all work equally well, but (maybe it's just me) but I have NEVER seen a Baja Special failing on a fish.
TomT
I have seen failures on the baja.dogs and the dog springs
seam to be the weakest link. 113h tank all day.i have been fishing mine for 3yrs without a problem.
Quote from: TomT on July 19, 2015, 03:59:32 AM
Steelfish,
I agree. I fish Baja for months at a time and usually go out with Mexican Capitans that want to slow troll with bait. They are used to reels like the 113h and 114h's. They want you to put your reel in free spool and with the clicker on. Then loop your line over the harness lugs and wait for a fish. The ONLY downside to this style of fishing for me with the 113hn is the free spool---There is WAY to much free spool for this style of fishing & the lack of harness lugs, but I usually use my Baja Special anyway and have to keep more alert than the others using a 113h, etc.(Bottom line is I would be happier if my Baja Special did not have as much free spool. In Baja we usually don't weigh our fish, but I have never had my Baja Special fail on anything from dorado, tuna, yellowtail, to marlin and or amberjack. I also have some tanked 113h's & 114h's that relatives use and we have no problems with them either. The only downside to my tanked reels is I am never sure which reel is the MOST tanked. They all work equally well, but (maybe it's just me) but I have NEVER seen a Baja Special failing on a fish.
TomT
Tom, your Baja Special has harness lugs. They may have been reversed and tucked into the body but they are there. :)
Quote from: broschro on July 19, 2015, 01:05:34 PM
I have seen failures on the baja.dogs and the dog springs
seam to be the weakest link. 113h tank all day.i have been fishing mine for 3yrs without a problem.
And hundreds and hundreds of Baja Specials have been fished for over a decade catching thousands and thousands of fish without a problem.
If I had a nickel for any and every reel that has ever had a dog fail I would be rich. Sprung dogs are the best, but all of them have some degree of trouble.
The point is you hear of one problem out of hundreds and hundreds of reels and you condemn the reel categorically. Yet you fish your one reel a little and proclaim them all like it (most never having been fished) as great reels. See the disconnect there?
The Tank project is amazing good fun for the DiY crowd and a fantastic way to breath new life into old classics. But they do not yet remotely have the track record of the Baja Special et al.
I am hopeful, but we need more of a track record for Tanks at high drag loads on fish. Specifically how the gears and side plate hold up to cranking under load with the degree of handle slop due to limited support seen in the 113H.
Remember, if you know your history of the Baja Special they originally did not have bearings supporting the handle. This was added after some time of on the water testing....There probably is a lesson there.
You can slow down your free spool by using heavier grease or oil in your bearings. An old distance caster`s tool.
Not trying to start a pissing match. I have been fishing my tank for 3 years straight.only problem I had was with the CF under the drag now changed out no more problems. I've been fishing mine very hard sometimes two times a week I believe it's tested.my buddy broke 4 bajas in less one year still fishing the old 113h reels. So i will not buy one just my 2 cents.by all means buy one if you like them
Quote from: johndtuttle on July 20, 2015, 07:06:04 PM
...
Remember, if you know your history of the Baja Special they originally did not have bearings supporting the handle. This was added after some time of on the water testing....There probably is a lesson there.
I think Sal may be working on the idea of a bushing to provide additional support between the gear sleeve and sideplate on the tank. The SS jigmaster spacers more or less serve this purpose when used with aluminum or stainless sideplates since they provide a tight fit. I think the idea provides merit for the Bajas and US113 as well.
Quote from: broschro on July 20, 2015, 10:55:05 PM
Not trying to start a pissing match. I have been fishing my tank for 3 years straight.only problem I had was with the CF under the drag now changed out no more problems. I've been fishing mine very hard sometimes two times a week I believe it's tested.my buddy broke 4 bajas in less one year still fishing the old 113h reels. So i will not buy one just my 2 cents.by all means buy one if you like them
What was the problem?
Hi All,
I have an older model 113H (red) that was converted to a Narrow model w/ Accurate Frame and Spool some 12+ years ago. However the frame is not "topless", the gearing not changes or the drags not increased.
I am about to order a Tiburon Topless frame, so do I need to also order a Tiburon spool to match or will the Accurate spool I have now work (Tiburon sells a set)?
Do I need to upgrade the gearing to the higher gear ratio?
Do I need to upgrade the drags?
Do I need to "tank" out this reel (SS guts, dbl dogs) etc?
I plan on fishing this as a #40 bait set up w/ a Calstar 6480 or 875H.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Gracias,
JT
Hi JT,
for a 40# set up, the current set up would be just fine. You don't need go change a thing...but you may want to service your reel and replace drag washers if they have been contaminated by other oils or grease.
I know others here would disagree because we all like upgrades, but for your fishing needs, it's not necessary.
Bryan
JT, if you are going to get a Tib. topless frame I would get it as a set with the spool. Then you can either save the Accurate set for another reel at a later date or sell it as a set. RUDY
Quote from: Bryan Young on December 28, 2015, 04:26:22 PM
Hi JT,
for a 40# set up, the current set up would be just fine. You don't need go change a thing...but you may want to service your reel and replace drag washers if they have been contaminated by other oils or grease.
I know others here would disagree because we all like upgrades, but for your fishing needs, it's not necessary.
Bryan
Agree with Bryan, 100%, JT --
Yes, you could do all of the things you mentioned -- but they are not necessary.
New 7 stack drags, Delrin under gear washer, Cal's, good handle that you are comfortable using under pressure.
Then just keep that handle nut tight.
40 pound rig all day long.
Best,
Fred
Thanks for the responses Bryan, Rudy & Fred,
I ordered the Topless Kit (frame & spool) from Tib last night and will definitely service the reel and swap out the drags before my next LR trip. Now to read/learn about 7 stack drags.... Thanks again.
Gracias,
JT
Hi JT,
Send me a private message if you are interested in a 7 stack drag kit. Really not needed for your application, but I think it's a nice improvement.
If and only if your handle to gear sleeve is wobbly, I would also upgrade the gears sleeve and anti-reverse dog to stainless. I have these from Alan as well if you need them and want to handle in one transaction. I don't have delrin under gear washers though. I haven't tested them yet but will shortly with Alan's line winder after the holidays.
Bryan
another vote here for stainless sleeve and dog. you are already upgrading frame/spool. I'm also a big fan of Bryan's drag kits. with all these upgrades, you'll be loaded for elephant 8)
Help!
I can't locate the thread, Tank Travels the World.
And now I lost track of where the tank is and what it's doing!
This help?
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=15832.0
Thanks Keta! I marked it for notify so I won't lose it again!
what page is the 7 stack all laid out with washers in order?
Bryan Makes the 7 stack. I don't know if he has them in stock or not.
I don't recall Sal or Me putting one of those in a 113H.
I might have. ::)
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9195.0
Bit late in the game, but lookin' for an opinion, or some straight-up knowledge, after readin' a-lota this thread: which is the strongest anchoring shaft for a penn reel dog; the JM style - post pounded into the bridge plate, or senator type with "side plate/bridge plate" screws used?
Gfish
Quote from: Gfish on July 13, 2016, 05:43:25 PM
Bit late in the game, but lookin' for an opinion, or some straight-up knowledge, after readin' a-lota this thread: which is the strongest anchoring shaft for a penn reel dog; the JM style - post pounded into the bridge plate, or senator type with "side plate/bridge plate" screws used?
Gfish
this thread ought to answer your question. Pictures at about post #200 are where I found an answer to your question http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=14.195
Sid
Quote from: anglingarchitect on May 26, 2016, 02:35:00 AM
what page is the 7 stack all laid out with washers in order?
Sorry, I'm late to the party. Here you go.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9195.0
Thanks Sid. Lots of interesting info on that thread. I'll have to watch the double dogged s.s. bridge I put in my jigmaster. Perhaps there's too much movement(lateral & horizontal) with that design, for such small parts, relative to the larger parts(dogs, springs & ratchets) in say a 6/0, or bigger. Mabey tighter tolerances and an "E" type clip on top a the dog would help...? Again thank you for the reference.
Gfish
Hello I didn't know until recently that this topic of a "hot rod" senator was anyone else's interest. Pay my respects for sal for doing it him self and long before I came along and clicked and swiped for my kits. I have a 113h on a tiburion "hawaiin wide" frame with a SS main gear(1:4) and a custom versa drag style kit from motive fab. All stainless internals with the pro gear double stainless dog & bridge. My question is I have yet to catch a fish on it as of yet but just recently had a dog get sheered off while I was spooling up new line. I have taken it out a few times and do a hawaiin style slide fishing so the most stress it could have had would be pulling up an 8.oz spider weight off the bottom. Now is my drag over powering my dogs and or has anyone else had these problems. On further investigation it seems that the rivets or pins that the dogs pivot on are made of brass. My thoughts is maybe the force found the weakest link in the chain the brass Rivet and that's where the break happend? Any thoughts.
It is hard to pinpoint how that dog post broke. This bridge was tested and fished for a long time. I will have to go back and put some more stress test on it. In the meanwhile, if there are other members have the same problem, please report on this thread.
Thanks,
Alan
Quote from: Jakejames on February 17, 2017, 05:48:34 PM
Hello I didn't know until recently that this topic of a "hot rod" senator was anyone else's interest. Pay my respects for sal for doing it him self and long before I came along and clicked and swiped for my kits. I have a 113h on a tiburion "hawaiin wide" frame with a SS main gear(1:4) and a custom versa drag style kit from motive fab. All stainless internals with the pro gear double stainless dog & bridge. My question is I have yet to catch a fish on it as of yet but just recently had a dog get sheered off while I was spooling up new line. I have taken it out a few times and do a hawaiin style slide fishing so the most stress it could have had would be pulling up an 8.oz spider weight off the bottom. Now is my drag over powering my dogs and or has anyone else had these problems. On further investigation it seems that the rivets or pins that the dogs pivot on are made of brass. My thoughts is maybe the force found the weakest link in the chain the brass Rivet and that's where the break happend? Any thoughts.
Thanks I think I might just buy another assembly and see how it works. Always the off chance the rivet was a bad one. I have one dog so the reel is still fishable but I'd like to correct it.
Quote from: Jakejames on February 17, 2017, 06:31:43 PM
Thanks I think I might just buy another assembly and see how it works. Always the off chance the rivet was a bad one. I have one dog so the reel is still fishable but I'd like to correct it.
By the way, are you using 8 or 10 teeth sleeve?
I will recommend 10 teeth if you are using a lot of drag, so both dogs can be engaged at the same time to take on much heavy drag.
I found the tips of the sprocket were somehow sticking on the middle dogs. A lot of head scratching and finally took a zoomed up picture of the dog shows an abrupt ridge midstream on that edge of each dog. The sprocket tips would load up on that ridge, then suddenly fall into the sprocket while under load. I removed both dogs and filed the ridge flat and now it's all smooth as silk. Hope this helps. -Ted
I'm not really sure what happened there, many things could have contribute to it's failure, the one thing that makes the most sense to me would be that the pin wasn't set in properly. :-\
Ted also has a good point, I remember him mentioning the ridge to me and Alan was aware, I believe he did get those cleaned though.
That ridge was making the dog engage prematurely and then set into place when lots of force was applied. Yes, I do believe that could cause the post to snap at the right moment.
Sal
Quote from: Jakejames on February 17, 2017, 05:48:34 PM
Hello I didn't know until recently that this topic of a "hot rod" senator was anyone else's interest. Pay my respects for sal for doing it him self and long before I came along and clicked and swiped for my kits. I have a 113h on a tiburion "hawaiin wide" frame with a SS main gear(1:4) and a custom versa drag style kit from motive fab. All stainless internals with the pro gear double stainless dog & bridge. My question is I have yet to catch a fish on it as of yet but just recently had a dog get sheered off while I was spooling up new line. I have taken it out a few times and do a hawaiin style slide fishing so the most stress it could have had would be pulling up an 8.oz spider weight off the bottom. Now is my drag over powering my dogs and or has anyone else had these problems. On further investigation it seems that the rivets or pins that the dogs pivot on are made of brass. My thoughts is maybe the force found the weakest link in the chain the brass Rivet and that's where the break happend? Any thoughts.
Hi James,
I saw that the dogs are not cleaned in your picture. Can you send back that bridge to me, and I will replace it for you.
The address is following:
PRO Challenger
1128 Royal Palm Beach Blvd,
#398
Royal Palm Beach, FL. 33411
Please ensure your have your name and address on a piece of paper, so I know where to return it.
Thanks,
--Alan
Hello, my names john smith and I'm a fisaholic. ;D
I've yet to tank any of my reels. :( Sad I know!
Years ago when I started hanging out here, I chose to go the SS gear sleeve and greased CF drags and thin (more) washer route.
I've got a question. To build a Tank, would I be better off with an 8-10 tooth SS sleeve? I'm guessing the later.
I think I was getting them from Dawn, maybe Alan. Are the 10 tooth sleeves new and would they work better with the DD set-up for hold?
Or...is it all dependent on the main gear?
Thanks
-gary
As far as the gear sleeve goes the more dog teeth would make for a little less back play if they are engaging at the same time. Jigger folks seem to prefer no back play in the spool. I got over that a long time ago.
The main and pinion gear have nothing to do with selecting the sleeve to use. Hope this helps.🚣♀️