I used to pay for snow service and the service used to clear my snow around 5 am ish in the morning.
Right in the middle of winter my diesel truck batteries were a bit low, I parked it in the driveway to charge the battery.
I use a long 3 prong extension cable.
Well, I had a Gobi moment and I left the 3 prong extension cable laying at the edge of the driveway near the garage door.
The plow nice cut the end of the extension cable off while it had juice to it.
Fast forward next morning, no power at the outlet, I walked to the panel and, what the Gobi, no breakers were tripped.
I still do not have any power at the outlet. I rechecked all the breakers.
I need to trace the outlet back to the breaker was as the directive given to me.
But what the heck, why no tripped breaker?
Is the outlet a GFI outlet, or is it in (parallel, series, heck I can't remember) with another outlet that is a GFI outlet that may have tripped? - john
Did you try flipping the breaker off/on a couple of times?
Shib, that is an easy one. Throw the main switch to cut off the power. Unscrew the outlet and you should have a blown wire in the outlet. If you have a new outlet just replace it. It should have 2 black wires on one side and 2 white wires on the other with a copper wire for a ground. If you can put a reel together this is a piece of cake. Good luck. Dominick
I would check for another outlet that is gfi and see if it is tripped .
A example gfi tripped in kitchen equals no power in bath room outlet .
Garage outlet tripper no outside outlet power .
I forgot to mention that same thing happened to me yesterday and that is how I fixed it. What a strange coincidence. Dominick
Duplex power outlets are typically wired in series runs -- meaning there are a few plugs on the same circuit -- controlled by a circuit breaker switch in your main box. Many times, there is a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupter) plug that is at the start of perhaps 6 or 8 plugs. When an issue occurs -- the GFCI at the front of the circuit trips to OFF -- and it is not necessarily in a close location to the duplex plug (might be in a different room or on the other side of a wall) you used to energize your extension cord. At this point, all plugs on this circuit are dead -- until the GFCI duplex plug is reset. It works like a mini circuit breaker -- and will not trip the main breaker in your service box.
Could also be a faulty wire or plug that failed when a short caused by the sliced extension cord occurred.
Could also be a faulty breaker in the main service box that is no longer effective.
If it is not any of these obvious fixes -- and you are not 110% confident of the remedy -- hire a licensed professional electrician.
They will not charge much -- and this is quick and easy for them to troubleshoot.
Most likely is a tripped GFCI outlet.
I'm an amateur -- but have upgraded and wired a few of my own houses -- some new construction -- and some remodel upgrades. When installing GFCI's -- I have gone to the newer style that has LED indicator lights. They are only a couple of dollars more -- and any time I walk by them -- I can easily see that they are working. Kitchen, bathrooms, utility room, garage, and any outdoor protected plugs -- all get a new one with the indicator lights. I also make sure every duplex is grounded back to the service box by using a solidly fastened green pigtail in each receptacle.
I have also found it useful after doing any wiring work -- to test each plug with a receptacle tester. These are less than $10 -- and foolproof. Tells me if I am good to go -- or if there are reversed wires, open ground, etc. Just plug it in and read the indicator lights. You can even try it on any receptacle in your home -- and correct any issues. Or check your electrician's work. Professional electricians have these on their tool belts all of the time.
If you are not fully confident in your abilities -- hire an electrician. You will sleep better at night, and when you are not at home. No bad surprises that way. I have been on too many incidents where non-professional faulty wiring, wrong wiring, or shortcuts caused major loss of structure and sometimes life.
Best, Fred
How many amp is the breaker in this circut.
Use a extension cord plugged into a circuit you know is working for a ground jumper.
#1. Manually trip and reset the breaker
#2. Test the load side of the breaker to see if you have power. If not replace the breaker.
#3 If you have power look for a GFI receptical in the circuit and if there is one reset it then test the outlet in the GFI receptical. If no power replace the receptical.
#4. If you have power check the recepctical you are having problems with.
If you have power the problem is fixed.
If no power take the cover off and check to see if the incoming wires are energised.
#5. If still no power you either missed a GFI receptical or you have a bad wire.
Not an electrician, but been a g c for 25 years and in construction for 44 years.
You would want to make sure the wire is of the proper size.
Usually a 15- amp breaker and a 14- gauge wire for lights... as long as there aren't too many.
For outlets 20-amp breaker requires 12- gauge wire.
Sal
As stated above check all your outlets for a GFCI outlet that has been tripped. It could be quite a distance from your other outlet. I had an outlet in the garage that was connected to a GFCI outlet on the second floor of the house. Also older breakers may not show it was tripped due to weak springs and will need to be turned off and back on. Do it a couple times......Good luck brother. Bill
I was typing this as Bill posted.
You don't indicate where the outlet is located but assuming it's in the garage or an outside outlet and your house is 1980sih or newer it's probably on a GFI protected circuit like Oldmanjoe & Fred described. Early GFI brakers were in the panel but there were so many problems with them being too sensitive and continually tripping most people eliminated the GFI breaker in the panel and went to a regular breaker with GFI protected outlets. Generally the first outlet in a GFI protected circuit is the protector, but not always as it could be the second, third, or even the last, as one's specific needs are met. See if you have any other seldom used outlets in the bathrooms, garage, basement, outside, or maybe even the kitchen, that don't work and you'll probably find the GFI breakered outlet. All you have to do is reset it.
Also, some times, depending on the type of panel you have, tripped breakers are visually tough to identify by just looking. Square D is a great example. They'll trip but they still look to be inline and on. Take your fingers and lightly see if any of the 20 amp breakers flip sideways easily. That could easily be the culprit and you'll have to totally flip it off to reset it. Most GFI circuits I listed above would/should be on a 12 AWG 20 amp circuit.
In an older house Dominick's suggestion may have happened but it's unlikely because unless you have a faulty breaker, or oversized fuse if you have fuses, the breaker should have tripped before the wire on the outlet burnt off. It is a possibility, though.
Late to the party but I'm going with locate the tripped GFI outlet.
The only thing I can contribute other than agreeing with most of what is above is that I would now NOT trust the breaker responsible for protecting that circuit unless you are certain the GFCI tripped upstream. Once you get it sorted out I would replace that breaker. I have replaced several this year, they are cheap and knowing they will help your house from burning down will let you sleep better at night.
Ron Jones
Quote from: Midway Tommy on May 20, 2020, 08:07:31 PM
In an older house Dominick's suggestion may have happened but it's unlikely because unless you have a faulty breaker, or oversized fuse if you have fuses, the breaker should have tripped before the wire on the outlet burnt off. It is a possibility, though.
The cabin was built in 1973 so it is an older structure with the original wiring. I was working on the range hood fan. It stopped working. I pulled the fan and tested it. The fan was ok. I concluded that the switch was bad. I ordered new switches and put power to the hood. The hood was upside down on the top of the stove. The fan would not work. I asked my neighbor to take a look at it and during his probing around he created a dead short. The range hood is on one outlet which powers the refrigerator and hood. I went to reset the circuit breaker and was surprised that it had not tripped. I pulled the refrigerator away from the wall and discovered that when the short hit the outlet it exploded and blew out the side of the outlet. I turned the circuit off and replaced the cooked outlet. That solved one problem. I rewired the hood but I cannot get it to work, I can only conclude that I purchased a defective switch. I'll work on it again bypassing the switch. I put it aside to cool off my frustration with it. Dominick
Quote from: Dominick on May 20, 2020, 09:13:50 PM
Quote from: Midway Tommy on May 20, 2020, 08:07:31 PM
In an older house Dominick's suggestion may have happened but it's unlikely because unless you have a faulty breaker, or oversized fuse if you have fuses, the breaker should have tripped before the wire on the outlet burnt off. It is a possibility, though.
The cabin was built in 1973 so it is an older structure with the original wiring. I was working on the range hood fan. It stopped working. I pulled the fan and tested it. The fan was ok. I concluded that the switch was bad. I ordered new switches and put power to the hood. The hood was upside down on the top of the stove. The fan would not work. I asked my neighbor to take a look at it and during his probing around he created a dead short. The range hood is on one outlet which powers the refrigerator and hood. I went to reset the circuit breaker and was surprised that it had not tripped. I pulled the refrigerator away from the wall and discovered that when the short hit the outlet it exploded and blew out the side of the outlet. I turned the circuit off and replaced the cooked outlet. That solved one problem. I rewired the hood but I cannot get it to work, I can only conclude that I purchased a defective switch. I'll work on it again bypassing the switch. I put it aside to cool off my frustration with it. Dominick
That's crazy! :o You're lucky the place didn't burn down!
Quote from: Dominick on May 20, 2020, 09:13:50 PM
The cabin was built in 1973 so it is an older structure with the original wiring.
The original part of our house was built in the late 30's and had un-insolated wire on ceramic posts and screw in fuses. I upgraded the system in the late 70's. I would like to replace the breaker box and add a few circuits but it is a low priority job. The barn was built I 2001, it and the irrigation pump are on a separate meter. The barn has 2 100a 240v circuits for my welder and compressor, 4 inside light circuits, 2 out side light circuits and every outlet is on it's own circuit, a 30a and a 50a 240v and 6 20a 120v outlets. I had and used 12, 10 and 8 gage wire and all in ridged conduit. I had the wire and the time to over kill the barn wiring. The chicken coup on the other hand looks like a idiot wired it and I really should do it right.
Scariest scenario there is in house electricity. I would have to consider the whole circuit's ground suspect until I verified that I was protected. How did you test the fan? Is it possible that you applied power to the leads in a way that would not show a dead short? In my experience, mostly in the marine industry but with considerable residential experience also, I would have to conclude that the hood is shorting when you apply installed power but not with your test power. It is possible that you bought a bad switch, but it is rare enough to doubt.
Ron Jones
Tested the switch. No conductivity with the switch off. Conductivity with the switch on. ??? Fan still does not work. Time to buy a new hood. Dominick
Quote from: Keta on May 20, 2020, 10:34:55 PM
Quote from: Dominick on May 20, 2020, 09:13:50 PM
The cabin was built in 1973 so it is an older structure with the original wiring.
The chicken coup on the other hand looks like a idiot wired it and I really should do it right.
You might wake up one morning to fried chicken. :D :D Rudy
Quote from: RowdyW on May 21, 2020, 12:41:56 AM
Quote from: Keta on May 20, 2020, 10:34:55 PM
Quote from: Dominick on May 20, 2020, 09:13:50 PM
The cabin was built in 1973 so it is an older structure with the original wiring.
The chicken coup on the other hand looks like a idiot wired it and I really should do it right.
You might wake up one morning to fried chicken. :D :D Rudy
Clap, Clap, Clap....Bow, Bow, Bow! ;D ;D ;D
Dominick, you probably fried the motor with the dead short. Motors are cheap to replace. The hard part is usually getting the fan blade off the motor shaft.
Breakers do go bad. It can look like it is set but dose not have conductivity between one side and the other. You can turn off the main and tighten the lug on the breaker. That is often the problem. Then check conductivity with the breaker on and breaker off. If the breaker is bad you can pop it out and take it to the store to find a replacement.
A volt-ohm meter (VOM) can turn anyone into an electrician. The volt meter will tell you if it has power or is safe to touch. The ohm meter will tell you if there is conductivity. I like the VOM to have a buzzer that goes off when there is conductivity between the two leads. That way, you can concentrate on where you are putting the leads instead of watching the meter.
-steve
Steve thanks for that. That is the strange thing about this project. I have continuity through the entire wiring. From the line in through the motor on the fan yet it does not work. Putting power directly to the fan motor spins that sucker like it was brand new. This has reached the end of my knowledge of electricity. Thank God for Amazon. I ordered a new hood to be delivered in 2 days (tomorrow). Dominick
Shibley, sorry to step on your thread how are you doing with your electric problem? Dominick
Quote from: Dominick on May 21, 2020, 04:07:05 PM
Steve thanks for that. That is the strange thing about this project. I have continuity through the entire wiring. From the line in through the motor on the fan yet it does not work. Putting power directly to the fan motor spins that sucker like it was brand new. This has reached the end of my knowledge of electricity. Thank God for Amazon. I ordered a new hood to be delivered in 2 days (tomorrow). Dominick
Smart move, Counselor -- the old hood is best repaired by tossing it in the trash. Any time an electric motor has issues -- or a light has issues -- that has 120V wired into it -- yes, it can be fixed -- but at what cost considering safety? Got to remember -- this is an electric motor that has been turned on and off perhaps 100,000 times since 1973. Plus, it has been impacted by fumes, greases, and time.
Hope you were able to match the original avocado green from the 70's!
Best,
Fred
Dominick,
No worries, discuss away, we all benefit from the knowledge :-),
You can check the motor for continuity? They are pretty modular, if it is the motor or the switch that bad for the hood.
I lost my reply I was writing late last night, arrragh,
Lol, with the covid stay at home order, I am focusing on much needed repairs around the house!
The house was built in 1957, and the electrical was upgraded 17 years back.
The outlet in question is in the garage and NOT a GFCI outlet, I followed the wires from behind the wall where I have a small shop room with open ceiling and it seems the wires go to a junction box.
Yes, I did flip (and flipped more finger at the box) all the breaker switches on the panel except for the big azz 50 amp a/c (dual combo) one.
Fred, great suggestion, I am will upgrade all the outlets to GFCI in the garage. Yes, I have one of those plug in tester.
I have a no touch voltage sensor, I will take the cover off and check the wires and confirm I have voltage in the wires.
Side Note: I have tasted 220v in Asia, now that will wake u up and leave some marks on your skin, ask how I know.
Lee/Tommy/Bill, that is the mystery, I can't figure out which breaker it is tied to, I have a sounder. I will use it after I confirm I have power. The panel is a HOT mess I think, the breaker are labelled but not logical. Yes, it was done by lic electrician.
Sal, 15 A outlet and it is 20 ft from the panel, I will check the wire gauge.
Did someone say Fried Chickin? I need to make a popeyes run!
Quote from: foakes on May 21, 2020, 04:22:04 PM
Quote from: Dominick on May 21, 2020, 04:07:05 PM
Steve thanks for that. That is the strange thing about this project. I have continuity through the entire wiring. From the line in through the motor on the fan yet it does not work. Putting power directly to the fan motor spins that sucker like it was brand new. This has reached the end of my knowledge of electricity. Thank God for Amazon. I ordered a new hood to be delivered in 2 days (tomorrow). Dominick
Smart move, Counselor -- the old hood is best repaired by tossing it in the trash. Any time an electric motor has issues -- or a light has issues -- that has 120V wired into it -- yes, it can be fixed -- but at what cost considering safety? Got to remember -- this is an electric motor that has been turned on and off perhaps 100,000 times since 1973. Plus, it has been impacted by fumes, greases, and time.
Hope you were able to match the original avocado green from the 70's!
Best,
Fred
Come on, we at AT'ers, we can revive a PENN which barely has one good screw and spool ;-)
Now the avocado green, hmm, that might be the show stopper,
I say time for a kitchen remodel! ;D
No is coming the outlet, I followed the line back to a junction box, in the pic the RED (YES) has power and BLACK (NO) has not power.
The junction box is a hot mess, look at all the tape, does it look like the insulation in the wire overheated?
I am going to turn off power to the junction box and seperate the wires and first figure out what they were trying to achieve, looks like they spliced in additional wire too, like a few inches,
FYI: This looks like was done by the flipper who flipped this house and probably the lic electrician who upgraded the wiring.
Looks a little scary :o to me. I'm assuming you mean the line is hot to the junction box but dead from the junction box to the outlet. Once you disconnect the power first pull on the individual wires going into each the wire nuts. A wire connection in one of the wire nuts may be the culprit.
If you call a licensed electrician right now -- you won't need to call the Fire Department later.
It is just Amateur Hour trying to diagnose electrical issues on the internet with wiring that has been done like that.
Too many dangerous variables.
Best of luck,
Fred
Quote from: foakes on May 22, 2020, 06:15:32 PM
If you call a licensed electrician right now -- you won't need to call the Fire Department later.
It is just Amateur Hour trying to diagnose electrical issues on the internet with wiring that has been done like that.
Too many dangerous variables.
Best of luck,
Fred
That is very true, Fred! I thought it was pretty obvious, though, after seeing what's there. Wires stripped too far back, insulation nicked, too many wires in the box, etc. ::) That was clearly a hack job and is a disaster just waiting to happen. :(
yeap, I hear you, I am going to call an electrician but first I will call the city and log a formal complaint, I think the guy who flipped the house 20 years back did this hack job.
I am not sure why I have 2 more of these junction boxes, in a room that is 7x14,
Quote from: Midway Tommy on May 22, 2020, 07:00:08 PM
Quote from: foakes on May 22, 2020, 06:15:32 PM
If you call a licensed electrician right now -- you won't need to call the Fire Department later.
It is just Amateur Hour trying to diagnose electrical issues on the internet with wiring that has been done like that.
Too many dangerous variables.
Best of luck,
Fred
That is very true, Fred! I thought it was pretty obvious, though, after seeing what's there. Wires stripped too far back, insulation nicked, too many wires in the box, etc. ::) That was clearly a hack job and is a disaster just waiting to happen. :(
Right, Tommy -- I learned how to wire from a Journeyman Electrician. I thought before that that I knew everything that was needed when it came to residential and commercial wiring. Boy, was I wrong! After working with Rich -- I noticed some things...
The wires were always stripped back just right so that they could be twisted together with a pair of linesman pliers -- not my fingers. There was never any bare copper showing. The proper size wire nut was used. And finally, each wire nut got another 1/8th turn to tighten with the linesman pliers. All boxes were grounded back to the main box. And when each circuit was energized -- each receptacle was tested with a tester. And there was always enough wire loop for a replacement or upgrade down the road -- but never too many wires in one box -- just what was needed.
Rich always said -- AC is easy...it either works, or it doesn't. But respect and care for both now and the future is key.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: Gobi King on May 22, 2020, 07:17:36 PM
yeap, I hear you, I am going to call an electrician but first I will call the city and log a formal complaint, I think the guy who flipped the house 20 years back did this hack job.
I am not sure why I have 2 more of these junction boxes, in a room that is 7x14,
Yeah, I am sure the City Inspection Department will get right on that...😂😂😂
And what will that accomplish after 20 years, anyway? No proof who did the hack job. For all they know, it could have been you or any one else.
Good move on just getting it professionally addressed and corrected properly.
You are in charge of your own and your family's safety -- no one else.
Best,
Fred
Fred!
Agreed!!!
Time to call... SPARKY - local journeyman electrician at 800- NO SHOCK ;D
Good luck,
Wayne
Quote from: Gobi King on May 22, 2020, 07:17:36 PM
yeap, I hear you, I am going to call an electrician but first I will call the city and log a formal complaint, I think the guy who flipped the house 20 years back did this hack job.
I am not sure why I have 2 more of these junction boxes, in a room that is 7x14,
You might open a can of rattlesnakes if you go that route. The city could care less about something done 20 years ago but they sure do like an excuse to get inside. ;) Just have a reputable licensed electrician come out, have him check out all the wiring, take a deep breath and then open your checkbook. :o If he's reputable he'll make sure any required permits and/or inspections are taken care of. No matter what, though, get the bad stuff fixed right away!
??? Do you have a switch in line with that outlet I see red wire and i see black and white wire tyed together !
I would ask the electrician to install a larger junction box while he's got it apart (he'll likely suggest it anyway). That box looks really crowded which is asking for trouble.
Good luck.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on May 22, 2020, 09:35:32 PM
You might open a can of rattlesnakes if you go that route. The city could care less about something done 20 years ago but they sure do like an excuse to get inside. ;) Just have a reputable licensed electrician come out, have him check out all the wiring, take a deep breath and then open your checkbook. :o If he's reputable he'll make sure any required permits and/or inspections are taken care of. No matter what, though, get the bad stuff fixed right away!
Tom is right about that. I have had a couple run ins with inspectors; the last being a SoCal Edison guy when I had my 1950's panel professionally swapped out and replaced. - john
Quote from: oldmanjoe on May 22, 2020, 09:52:09 PM
??? Do you have a switch in line with that outlet I see red wire and i see black and white wire tyed together !
Not on that line but the other one, it has a switch for the outlet high on the wall and lights above the counter.
[Larger junction box]
Yes Sir, I will have wiring straighten out, probably rewired to clean it up a little.
[Talking to the city]
Legend has it that the last guy who did shoddy wiring on a house they flipped in my little town where the city employees have the most laid back jobs east of the Mississippi was sent to the gulag.
He was seen on the facebook livefeed from the gulag chopping firewood for the Russian winters ;D
In all seriousness, I know the couple who flipped my house 20 years, what is concerning is that they are still at it, they flip house in my little town.
The guy who owned it after the flipper, he is a retired professor and he bought it for his D who got divorced, He had all the work done by Lic contractors and provided me receipts.
What can the city do? I dunno, but I will ask them. FYI the city knows this couple well too, they have had a few complaints already.
I will definitely have a lic electrician look at the wiring.
I had some work done few years back, I paid $1300 for the wiring for some can lights in my basement.
Look at the outlet tester Fred mentioned on this outlet, The lights indicate a reversed hot/neu.
Unfortunately in West MI, one has to do a little bit work to hire a reputable contractor. And some will not even work on little stuff like this. They don't even return your phone call.
Lee, you mentioned testing outlets after the jobs is done, surely no testing was done here.